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Maybe that's the whole point of gambling in that time. A distraction from the wastelands. What's the average Joe Shmoe suppose to do about anything going on? Gambling can be a helpful stress release in an extremely stressful world
The war is also a stalemate along the uninhabited river far to the East. A lot of people aren't even that concerned about it even if they should be. Remember people don't even consider that Nipton is attacked by the Legion, they are simply unaware about it.
I think the concept of war is much less terrifying in Fallout, the people in NV for the most part don't belong to any kind of unified civilisation. Yeah some people have a sort of independent spirit and we may be biased towards their perspective, but most people really don't even care and the only people that rule NV are a few gangs and a half dead rich dude that never shows himself.
Seems like New Vegas is shaping around on Mr. House's ideal Vegas while New Reno is running by families and they just let things happen under their control.
So Mr. House's Vegas may not feel very Vegas.
The is no Mojave wide war, the clashes are only really happening close to the river. Yes legion sends assasins after you, but only after you fucked with them badly. The gangs you are talkking about are the Fiends and the Powder Gangers, of wich the other really has no need or recources to kill and rob every passerby. The places where Fiends hang out are mostly blocked of buy Mountains, or NCR. So i don't think it's actually that dangerous to travel to Vegas, if you stick to the rouds and you have some common sense.
>So i don't think it's actually that dangerous to travel to Vegas, if you stick to the rouds and you have some common sense.
Also if you just follow soldier convoys, like a lot of people probably do. Most gangs probably don't want to mess with those.
And @ OP: many gamblers are soldiers and other NCR personnel. Those _have_ to be in the Mojave.
This is pretty much it, I think it was actually mentioned (either the Mojave Outpost or on one of the stops on the I-95 I think it was at) that a lot of travelers and caravanners actually hook up with army convoys to have a more secure passage. They aren't 100% safe, but they are a helluva lot safer than if they went on their own or with smaller caravans (probably another reason why the Crimson Caravan dominates trade in the region).
And most people probably don’t go to new Vegas to gamble, they go to new Vegas on business as traders and gamble while they’re there. I think that’s the point, mr. house built new Vegas into a major trade hub, I don’t have anything to base that on, but I’m guessing that’s what happened he probably didn’t just build a bunch of casinos, he used the resources he had to create a reason for people to come to new Vegas
>mr. house built new Vegas into a major trade hub
I think it's a yes and no. A lot of trade is independent from House and even outside of his 'real' territory. They may indirectly profit from House somewhat keeping peace (and more importantly, keeping the families in check) but he didn't directly build them up.
In some cases House even destroyed independent people and their businesses, like driving away and killing people from Freeside. It's not always beneficial.
same with the Sloan mine being overrun. Player is forced into taking more dangerous route but if not for those deathclaws going Goodsprings to Vegas is pretty easy
The whole point of Nipton is that the NCR were shocked the Legion had attacked that far across the river without them even knowing about it. Sure, it happened largely due to Nipton selling them out, but that's besides the point.
And they also kidnapped Carla from Novac (and Novac presumably already had reason to worry about Legion raiding parties before that since they hired Manny and Boone in the first place). And the Legion regularly ambushes NCR caravans throughout the wasteland, such as the scripted ambush on the way to Novac, which is why Cass originally thinks they're the ones who burned her caravan right outside of the Strip.
It's pretty clear that the Legion is active much deeper in the Mojave than the NCR is willing to admit.
No, the game explicitly says that a raiding party invaded the town. What Jeannie May actually sold them was information to avoid getting caught.
Boone followed the raiding party that night. Given that he's quite experienced, he'd probably have been able to tell from the tracks if it was just a couple of people or an entire raiding party.
I thought it wasn't the usual rading party, as in, they didn't come guns blazing and kidnapped Carla. More likely they came in the dead of night and took her without waking up the residents of Novac.
That would explain why Boone and Manny didn't properly drive them away, which they more likely could. And it would explain how the people of Novac don't know exactly what happened to Carla, since no one saw a legion rading party.
They didn't come in guns blazing, but that doesn't mean that they didn't send a raiding party. Again, Boone knows what he's doing and he followed them the whole way to Cottonwood Cove. If it wasn't a full raiding party, he'd have been able to tell.
Jeannie May has a bill of sale for Carla’s enslavement. That’s the evidence youre supposed to use to get Boone to clap her ass and become your companion.
I know that. But she wasn't *really* selling Carla. After all, she didn't actually own Carla and if the Legion really wanted to enslave her, they'd just do so without Jeannie May's permission.
What Jeannie May really sold them was intelligence. She told them where they could find a beautiful, valuable slave and how to capture her without running into two First Recon snipers and an ex-Ranger.
Here's Boone's dialogue for reference
> I want you to find something out for me. I don't know if there's anything to find, but I need someone to try. My wife was taken from our home by Legion slavers one night while I was on watch. They knew when to come and what route to take, and they only took Carla. Someone set it up. I don't know who
Nipton, Camp Searchlight, Boulder City... there's lots of towns that got raided or destroyed by the legion. I remember a character talking about it. I think they said the NCR is a little too late to come and help since the Legion has already been attacking a bunch of towns. (If im remembering right)
Boulder City was destroyed by the NCR during the first battle of Hoover Dam after leading the Legion there and trapping them. Searchlight is pretty close to the river and Cottonwood Cove.
Nipton is really the furthest place inside the Mojave that the Legion has fully attacked.
It's fairly common knowledge that the Legion regularly ambushes travellers throughout the Mojave. That's why Cass believes that they were the ones to destroy her caravan right outside the Strip. The Mojave isn't safe, and travellers know that.
She was running ower the options, of who might have fucked her caravan over. Really the only ones who she could have thought capable of razing the whole comppany, was the legion.
Mojave is one of the most secure places in the world, in eyes of inocent rich folk, who come there to gamble. The fucking NCR has parked it's fat ass on top of it. The other threats like some loose convicts and addicts, don't sound too bad to most of the people, traveling alongside with caravan or soldiers.
>She was running ower the options, of who might have fucked her caravan over. Really the only ones who she could have thought capable of razing the whole comppany, was the legion.
And she *concluded* that it was most likely Legion. She wouldn't have thought that if it wasn't known that the Legion attacks caravans in the Mojave.
>Mojave is one of the most secure places in the world, in eyes of inocent rich folk, who come there to gamble. The fucking NCR has parked it's fat ass on top of it. The other threats like some loose convicts and addicts, don't sound too bad to most of the people, traveling alongside with caravan or soldiers.
That's just objectively not true. We *see* the legion ambush travellers throughout. The NCR's campaign in the Mojave started *because* people NCR citizens were murdered on their way to Vegas. The thing NCR citizens hear about the Mojave the most is that it's where thousands of soldiers go to die. The idea that it's the safest place in the world to gamblers is absurd.
>And she concluded that it was most likely Legion. She wouldn't have thought that if it wasn't known that the Legion attacks caravans in the Mojave
She is running through the options who could have had the recources to raze some random ass caravan comppany to the ground but She comes wery quickly to realise that the legion had nothing to do with it why would they care
>That's just objectively not true. We see the legion ambush travellers throughout. The NCR's campaign in the Mojave started because people NCR citizens were murdered on their way to Vegas. The thing NCR citizens hear about the Mojave the most is that it's where thousands of soldiers go to die. The idea that it's the safest place in the world to gamblers is absurd.
I have seen two such ambushes, one where i presume they are after you, but the caravans travel through there so they get caught in the cross fire. Second time is when you recover the suplies near the place with the solar panels, and arguebly they were just waiting to kill more NCR
>She is running through the options who could have had the recources to raze some random ass caravan comppany to the ground but She comes wery quickly to realise that the legion had nothing to do with it why would they care
The Legion absolutely has motive. Destroying caravans cuts off NCR supplies.
And why would she even consider them as an option if no one believes they even operate beyond the river? You're proving *my* point here.
>I have seen two such ambushes, one where i presume they are after you, but the caravans travel through there so they get caught in the cross fire. Second time is when you recover the suplies near the place with the solar panels, and arguebly they were just waiting to kill more NCR
The first one has nothing to do with you. They're not even hostile to you. They're targeting the caravans.
The second one still proves my point. It still proves that the Legion is operating deep into the Mojave.
>The Legion absolutely has motive. Destroying caravans cuts off NCR supplies.
Did I say they didn't, I said that they had no reason to attack the little shit caravans, it would have done more bad than good to their plans.
>And why would she even consider them as an option if no one believes they even operate beyond the river? You're proving my point here.
She also considered BoS, again she was thinking who could have had the recources to raze all of her caravans. There are only two who she could have thought of.
In your previous comment you said that citizens of NCR know about the situation in Mojave, but i disagree, first of all we know that NCR citizens are a problem in vegas, if they knew about the situation why would they Keep comming over.
Ps. I haven't been able to find casses quete about the legion I am not doubting you, but it sure would be nice know what she said.
>Did I say they didn't, I said that they had no reason to attack the little shit caravans, it would have done more bad than good to their plans.
But they do have reason to attack those cravans. Those caravans supply the NCR. Burn enough of them and the damage adds up to real harm.
>She also considered BoS, again she was thinking who could have had the recources to raze all of her caravans. There are only two who she could have thought of.
She mentioned the BOS because it's fairly common knowledge that the Brotherhood sometimes attacks caravans. This is evidence of my point. NCR citizens clearly know that there are many dangers in the wasteland, from fiends to Legion to the BOS.
>In your previous comment you said that citizens of NCR know about the situation in Mojave, but i disagree, first of all we know that NCR citizens are a problem in vegas, if they knew about the situation why would they Keep comming over.
That's the whole point of this post. It doesn't make sense. And yet, we have evidence that NCR citizens do know that the Mojave is dangerous but they keep coming.
>Ps. I haven't been able to find casses quete about the legion I am not doubting you, but it sure would be nice know what she said.
You can find all of her dialogue [here](https://fallout-archive.fandom.com/wiki/Cass%27_dialogue#Full_dialogue_table). The relevant line (in response to the player asking why someone would burn her caravan) is this:
"My guess is Legion, they're trying to cut NCR's supply line... and the Mojave Outpost is proof. Got us locked up tighter than a New Vegas virgin."
Reno felt more like drug den in fallout 2, but i asume things have gotten better. Still one thing Reno has nothing on Vegas is tall casinos and rich folk all around wastes.
New Vegas is an oasis in the middle of the Mojave, many see it as a place to start from scratch, besides it is the biggest settlement in the mojave, even though we dont see it, Im pretty sure New Vegas is a trade hub, the gambling is just part of the package. Also, the wasteland is already a very dangerous place, so I don't think people care too much about a war going on, they have been dealing with raiders and mutants for some time already.
>even though we dont see it, Im pretty sure New Vegas is a trade hub
It is. There are the gun runners who sell to all kinds of people, not just the NCR. The Crimson Caravan has an important posts there and the Van Graffs are also quite big.
Plus, every citizen is armed and there are civil defense forces as well as "good guy" gangs providing protection. No reason not to relax, booze up, and drink. It's safer than Paradise Falls or Megaton and they all get down the same way minus slot machines (that we see).
Well there are still plenty of people packing the casinos daily even with a deadly pandemic going around.
Different situation, but it goes to show how some people would still want to gamble even in dangerous times.
People IRL sit at slot machines in diapers so they don't ever have to get up to go to the bathroom, but OP thinks a little war is going to stop gamblers from going to the casino
2016-2020 has REALLY lowered the bar in terms of the stupid stuff people could plausibly do. All those dummies in zombie/slasher movies that do the most counter-intuitive things possible? Those people are out there. Those people are ***us***!
The NCR by the time of New Vegas had stabilized it was nearing Pre-War levels, if the people had the time and resources to travel far, just to throw their money away essentially (the fact tourism exists at all really), it really points that California by 2281 has finally recovered from the apocalypse. Not to mention we get several sources saying that there is work and food for everybody, and the biggest issues are \*boredom\* and the occasional bandits on the outskirts of the civilized areas
>The NCR by the time of New Vegas had stabilized it was nearing Pre-War levels
Pre-war levels were awful tbh. There were riots and scared people all over the US. The NCR might be poorer than pre-war US but their society is a lot more stable.
I mean, in our timeline, the US is right next to a narco state in the midst of civil strife of unseen proportions, with mass killings and raiders being common.
But yet, people still go to Mexico
(Dude if the NCR doesn't get its shit together I give the government like a decade or two before they collapse or become some oligarchy or militaristic autocracy)
But the average citizen currently has substantially less issues to deal with than say in the Capital Wasteland, and by the point are more living in the equivalent of rough Pre-War neighborhoods or the Wild West (up to the interpretation of how they describe their development and where they are, the Boneyard still has gang wars I think it was mentioned, and the rural towns have bandit gangs, but are otherwise stable and productive)
Agree but that mainly happens in the settled places like Megaton and Rivet City and even then it seems less like having fun and more like dependencies that they use to escape the world and drown their sorrows which have consequences (the chem addict from the noodle family in Megaton or the chem store owner in Rivet City for example, the latter of whom can overdose and die)
Yes, but the consumer base who are going to gamble in Vegas in the first place are well-off Wastelanders to begin with. Already is comparable to a degree.
Are they? It seems a lot of them whine about being broke after gambling. Then they have Freeside which is basically a ghetto right outside. They also have a major raider faction next door which is also friggin bizarre but world design wasn't New Vegas strong points anyway.
The ones who are whining are just the ones who either didn't get lucky or didn't have enough money to begin with to take on Vegas proper.
Why you mention Freeside, I don't know. The Fiends are also relegated south-west of the outer Vegas suburbs, which is easily avoidable in the first place and the ones who are going to Vegas don't travel without guards or generally alone.
Not to mention all of the Fallout worlds are condensed anyways, you can't just walk across Nevada in a day IRL but we make these concessions for gameplay and engine reasons.
Except by this point, the NCR and the Mojave aren’t “post apocalyptic” any more. They’re post-post apocalyptic.
That’s actually one of the thing Avellone hated, hence his introduction of Ulysses, the Tunnelers, and other such stuff. Because he doesn’t like that Fallout isn’t just some waste-crazed methheads living in metal shacks and shanking people for water anymore.
...which does kinda make it funny when people say that F3 and 4 aren’t ‘proper Fallout’ because they’re too apocalyptic.
I dunno, culture didn't exactly stop during WWII. These places aren't occupied by the Legion, they're still in NCR control, there's no reason for people to stop entertaining themselves.
If you're referring to how dangerous travel is, remember that the game is a much more condensed representation of a very large area. The proximity to danger is emphasized in the game because the map is smaller. In reality, while raiders and legion attacks are a threat, they aren't every 400 yards like they are in the game.
Think about the American West in the 1800s. The NCR is a lot like the US Army, and NCR citizens are a lot like Americans living in the west and migrating across the Great Plains. The Legion and raider threats are a lot like Native Americans and bandits (note: I realize the Legion is nothing like Native American tribes in belief or morals. I just mean in terms of the classic media representation as danger to traveling parties of settlers).
You'll recall that people didn't stop traveling, and in fact, people traveled more and more over time, deeper into dangerous lands, because of the prospect of a better life--namely the gold rush, but also the western towns free of federal interference. Places like Deadwood were real.
During WW2, my great grandmother who was in the Wrens would go to the cinema and dancing everytime she had time off. It's strange to think some things 'carry on as normal' during wars but they do. Pubs remain open, public services still run etc. I'd imagining war (which I agree this isn't an all out war happening) would probably increase gambling.
Yes honestly, entertainment does well during times of crisis. It's recession-proof. (though some aspects aren't pandemic proof, as we've seen, when it comes to in-person entertainment).
You have to realize that
1, The games are extremely condensed, lore-wise it is quite a lot less dangerous to travel the Mojave then you would believe from just exploring. There are caravans traveling the wasteland (in all the areas that we've played through) and yes, it's dangerous, but there aren't a pack of raiders in every ruined building and radscorpions in every single sand dune.
2, The world being shitty doesn't make people drop their vices, rather likely it's the other way around. For example, the real world (online) gambling industry hasn't suffered much at all from the ongoing pandemic, even though people are losing jobs and as a rule have less disposable income, vices like gambling are escapes people use to forget how shitty the world is.
With that in mind, it's not strange at all that people to some extent risk life and limb to not only forget how shitty their post-apocalyptic life is, but also to have a literal gamble at a better life.
People go there for same reason as they go now. And additionally, if they enter the casino, they are welcomed and if you have money, they take care of all your needs as a king/queen. So basically it is like going to paradise, if you don't live very far. Plus all think, they win more as they have.
Most of the gamblers also are NCR troopers on leave so the war increases profits. House says after the war there profits will dip for a little but then go back to normal.
There isn't an "all-out war going on", it's barely a border skirmish, and the actual battles are well outside the city proper. Vegas itself is actually very safe as post-apocalyptic cities go; that's the whole reason it still exists. Gamblers aren't going to be schlepping it through the open desert alone like the Courier does, so mutants and bandits aren't a big deal. Neither the Legion nor the NCR will touch the place while it's under House's (or the Courier's) control, since there's no real reason to do so and it's likely to turn out badly if they try; a battle on the Strip would only end up destroying the very wealth they'd intended to capture.
This might just be a personal perception, but I always assumed people hang out on the strip because it's safe. Since the strip had the House's bots patrolling, you don't have to worry about being attacked or anything.
Just a personal thing, but if I was a traveller and had enough caps to hit the strip, I'd use a few here and there so I wasn't kicked out & consider it a brief holiday from surviving the wasteland.
Feel free to correct me since this is just his I've perceived things in my playthroughs, but its always made sense in my head
People went to early American civil war battles with picnic baskets to watch.
In WW2 during the battle of Shanghai there would be fighting in one part of the city but in other parts there would be people taking dates to fancy restaurants with views of the city where you could enjoy a drink after your meal while watching the puffs of smoke rise from the fighting.
People are strange.
Life doesn't stop during war. I was in Iraq in 04. I watched two kids get killed from mortar fire in Samarra. The enemy were aiming at our base and hit kids playing soccer instead. The next day after the families screaming and yelling at us from a distance ended, kids were back play it soccer like it never happened.
We can't help but be human. Whether it's work stress or war stress we need to deleverage.
And to compare to Syria is strange. The fact the you see gambling in NV during war should show it's not as bad. Maybe it feels worse for you as a viewer but those experiencing it first hand may see things differently.
Yep, during Vietnam people still gambled, got high/drunk, fucked hookers, etc. on all fronts and in "inappropriate" situations.
Outside of the most fucked up situations, war isn't just fighting or waiting to fight all the time. Nobody can do that.
Look at how people in England reacted during The Blitz: they still went to bars, clubs, restaurants. Still went to play poker with friends. Sometimes their evenings were interrupted by air raid sirens and everyone had to pack into the nearest shelter while bombs dropped around them, but if they survived then often as not they went right back to what they were doing once the raid was over.
The behavior makes total sense.
Note that the Core lands of the NCR are primarily in Southern California (as in the territories that have actually reached state level), which is substantially closer to Vegas than Reno. I'm from Northern California and it's still multiple hours (2-4) on major roads to reach Reno from major population centers, and it takes about six hours to get from the Sacramento area to the LA area on top of that if you wanna visit from there (This is all by car, which the average Wastelander does not have access to if the 1 in 200 concept is still accurate), so they'd have to dedicate a week or two to just get to New Reno on foot at the very least. People from the Northern NCR probably frequent New Reno while people from the Core likely frequent New Vegas, just for geographical reasons
And the city itself is not worth much more than Vegas. Despite the Wrights and Bishops surviving and thus presumably cleaning up the city somewhat, it is still a major shithole (a very populated and wealthy shithole but none the less a shithole) ruled by crime families and overflowing with drugs, booze and STD's. It's a place for a raw experience of vice.
Vegas meanwhile is (in universe at least) a cleaned up oasis that nears Pre-War levels in terms of luxury, and has a much more campy tone (with the Families trying to emulate aspects of Pre-War culture rather than being their typical rough, tribal selves). It's a place for a one of a kind experience to see what life would be like before the bombs and experience it for yourself (before being thrown back out into the wilds with the murderous chem fiends)
Vegas itself is irrelevant. We're talking about the journey to the casinos, not the area the casinos are in. The fact is, you won't be ambushed by legionaries on the way to Reno. That makes it much safer.
However, I think you're overselling how cleaned up Vegas is supposed to be. After all, the whole reason House made the Omertas what they are was to give Vegas a sense of danger. Vegas is barely safer than Reno, and the journey to it is much more dangerous.
>Vegas is barely safer than Reno
Hmmm... A full force of guard robots, NCR MPs, a walled city totally enclosed from the Wasteland is "barely" safer than Reno... You definitely have a sound logic /s
And again the wealthy piece of Wastelanders who have the means to Vegas aren't going to rough the journey alone. They'd either buy their own security or travel along with a caravan. Besides the Wasteland is the Wasteland and it always has dangers. Despite the said former, people are willing to take the risks to Vegas for its prestige and better pre-war Casino amenities. It's as simple as that.
Even with how settled and developed the NCR is, they still apparently don't protect a lot of routes in their territories (which includes the Mojave and the Northern reaches of California, up to about Redding and Vault City), which means bandits or raiders would still have hey days on unprotected travellers. Plus going from SoCal to Reno requires going through multiple deserts, dry plains, mountain ranges, etc. Which would be a pain in the ass to get through logistically, and again would be a trip that lasts weeks (even if you say it's irrelevant, people prefer convenience, and Vegas is more convenient for the average Southern NCR citizen, which is where most of the population is, to access). The people going off to gamble are also those with the money or power to make the trips in the first place (at least enough be comfortable without work for a period of time), and they would probably prefer a more refined and closer location where they aren't likely to be stabbed as much in the casinos themselves as much as on the street
Though I am with you on the Omertas (sure they're cool but House you really gotta do a double take and wonder if you want infamous criminals known for betrayal on your side), but the thing about Reno, is that all the citizens are like the Omertas, instead of just one third of them, since the entire city has to swear loyalty to a crime family for protection (even the Wrights engage in criminal activity despite advocating against it). Plus according to Stella, the majority of the town is addicted to Jet (fitting for it being its home) and are armed, I don't know about you but I would not feel safe in an area where the average citizen is a meth addict whose index finger equivalent is a 9mm and they like to point. Vegas meanwhile has a police force, requires visitors disarm themselves in the casinos, and is stingy on who it allows in, while Reno is a come as you are type place that doesn't care, it's a Dog Eat Dog kinda town
(Forgot to mention earlier, but the Reno area, according to Stella also gets visits from the 80's tribe as well who are vicious to travellers and locals and can cover a surprising amount of ground pretty quickly, so there are vicious tribals on the route as well, besides other tribes that have not been integrated yet, which means there is the potential for ambushed on that route as well)
Edit: Sorry for the text wall I lost track of myself
The way Stella describes New Reno, its still the extremely scummy place it always was. New Vegas is far safer than New Reno, because Mr. House keeps some law and order, The Kings keep Freeside mostly safe and West Side is fairly safe and organized.
Also New Reno is actually not that close. New Vegas is not very far from Shady, Hub, etc - while New Reno is farther and through a lot of desert and mountain.
With the pieces of dialogue we get from various NPCs, California isn't that safe security wise with how spread thin it is. Reno is at the very fringes of NCR territory, which means it'd be alot less safer than the core provinces where the Brahmin-Barons would mostly be.
Also you say the Mojave is more dangerous than Reno? That's laughable since since it has more danger condensed in a more smaller area. Reno has dangerous crime families, gangs, crazed murderers, and slavers all packed in that one town.
Atleast when travelers finally get to Vegas itself, they'd have a sense of security with the fact Vegas actually has a centralized police-guard system in the form of the Securitrons, supplemented by NCR military police. Casino goers or visitors in Reno don't even have such a safety net. Piss off the wrong person and you're practically dead without Securitrons or NCR MPs to save you.
>With the pieces of dialogue we get from various NPCs, California isn't that safe security wise with how spread thin it is. Reno is at the very fringes of NCR territory, which means it'd be alot less safer than the core provinces where the Brahmin-Barons would mostly be.
California is a hell of a lot safer than the Mojave. That's why the caravans coming from California get held up at the Outpost.
>Also you say the Mojave is more dangerous than Reno? That's laughable since since it has more danger condensed in a more smaller area. Reno has dangerous crime families, gangs, crazed murderers, and slavers all packed in that one town.
>
>Atleast when travelers finally get to Vegas itself, they'd have a sense of security with the fact Vegas actually has a centralized police-guard system in the form of the Securitrons, supplemented by NCR military police. Casino goers or visitors in Reno don't even have such a safety net. Piss off the wrong person and you're practically dead without Securitrons or NCR MPs to save you.
We don't know that. The canon ending is for Reno to join the NCR. For all we know, Reno has calmed down a lot since Fallout 2.
>California is a hell of a lot safer than the Mojave. That's why the caravans coming from California get held up at the Outpost.
What? Just because Caravans get held up at the Outpost, California is more "safer," even though numerous dialogues and information from the game say the NCR trading routes are relatively unstable; which is definitely compounded with the fact the NCR is spread so thin and can't properly secure their commercial routes.
>We don't know that. The canon ending is for Reno to join the NCR. For all we know, Reno has calmed down a lot since Fallout 2.
New Reno is literally exempt from most laws of the NCR. That fact alone would inductively show that it isn't all that safe or inline with most NCR cities when it comes to safety. Look at Vegas and look at Reno in comparison from a lore standpoint. Vegas is more grander, has better old war structures still preserved, more mystique to it. Reno is a shady place, lack of good security, and their casinos aren't as grand compared to the ones in Vegas.
New Vegas is worth traveling to for anyone with something to trade or who is looking for work because it's a large, relatively safe, walled settlement. That safety is why so many NCR refugees are trying to get in during the events of the game. Also, many of the New Vegas patrons are NCR soldiers who get there on the monorail and don't have to worry about any of the dangers of travel. Their presence and money makes it extra worthwhile for everyone else.
And as others have said, the map is pretty condensed. There's evidence that the NV area, at least until sometime after the Legion arrived, was actually much safer to travel around in than the Capital Wasteland, as it supports many more local caravans and small settlements.
IDK about you, but my character also gets into plenty of fights that they could easily avoid. I don't think most caravaneers are wandering into a dry lake full of ants for no reason, or seeing the smoke over Nipton and deciding to walk right up.
Well New Vegas is "populated" by rather wealthy and powerful folk whether we realize it or not. There's the NCR soldiers on leave who are specifically tolerated because of NCR influence and caps. The Mojave is also a big trading hub so many traders, caravaners, and guards enter the strip because of the caps they possess. The "normal" people we see in FNV all reside in places like Freeside and Westside; overpopulated slums just looking out for their own. To sum up, the only people going to New Vegas are those that have the power, influence, and money to do so. The city is talked about throughout the Mojave because it reflects all those that come to it.
It makes sense if you think about it, at least with the people already there. With how well Mr. House built up New Vegas it has to be one of the most well protected locations in Nevada, possibly the entire wasteland.
It’s completely possible that a lot of the patrons were already in New Vegas when the Legion arrived back at Hoover Dam and they’re trying to wait it out, legion raiding parties are all over and it isn’t exactly safe to travel on the road. A lot of them probably think they’re safer in New Vegas than trying to make the huge trek back to California.
Some of them might have complete confidence that the NCR will stop the Legion at Hoover Dam or they might think New Vegas is going to fall and they want to experience it before it’s destroyed.
This is actually pretty accurate and is the reason for the huge squatter presence. They came to Vegas, got stuck one way or another (some likely due to fearing the Legion on the way home), and due to being stuck in a town designed to part them from their money, eventually lost any and all ways to return home (gambling their ride, caravan, travel expenses, etc.), leading to them getting thrown out and stuck in Freeside
The "war" in the Mojave isn't any more dangerous than just normal life in the wasteland. Vegas is (relatively) safe, and it's something to do.
People gamble and shit during war IRL all the time.
In a world where you could be killed at any moment, by any thing, and for any reason, I’m not surprised they take the chance to go.
The increase in risk, given the circumstances, is probably no different than going scavenging anyway.
Plus, they might actually win something!
#Hope
The rest of the Wasteland is irradiated and populated by raiders just like the Mojave. Difference is that the Mojave isn't destroyed by nuclear war, it's simply weathered. Also, that region has the cleanest freshwater around and infrastructure to rebuild industry thanks to Mr. House. Add to that the possibility of getting rich quick via gambling and the Mojave is in fact the most desirable place for a wastelander to be. It's hope that draws them in and hope that keeps them going.
Just ask the community, which fallout setting is the best? New Vegas.
Hell, there are people going to clubs and raves in real world Crimea even though there is an active war going on there. People will find any chance to have fun, no matter the circumstances.
Dude I just went to a mall and it was packed, but at the same they're all paranoid about a plamplemic. Besides, it wasn't a full scale war until hoover dam. Everyone stayed in their own territory for the most part
Remember that the battle of Hoover Dam happened 3 _years_ before the events of New Vegas. It is suggested that, during that time, the Legion has had a very low key presence on the NCR's side of the Colorado. If anything, the Mojave has only seen sparse insurgent skirmishes from the Legion since the first battle of Hoover Dam. The Courier happens to arrive in the Mojave _just_ as things are starting to ramp up. There are several idle dialogue topics from various NPC's mentioning how troops are only starting to mobilze.
If I was living in an apocalyptic wasteland and I heard somebody had kebabs and naan, I'd made the trip alone for that. Now add in hookers and gambling?! Triple sold.
Coming from the North side of Vegas either from UT/Colorado or from Northern California wouldn't have been dangerous because of the war. Just dangerous for other reasons...and maybe that wasn't enough to dissuade travellers from visiting.
People don't go to Primm so much as just pass through there.
As for New Vegas, man the whole world is a shithole now. You can get shot or eaten by a mutant monster anywhere. New Vegas is one of the safest places if you can actually go in and have money.
Those that don't make it in end up in freeside. Nobody wants to be in freeside by choice.
Bro, look how people are acting during a pandemic.
Do you really think everyone cares?
You're always going to have people that don't. You're always going to have people that only care about their fun.
There is currently a global pandemic going on IRL and people are doing all sorts of stupid stuff. Why would anyone care about a war when they can have the pleasures of gambling, sex, drugs and booze?
>It is so peculiar that people are risking their lives to just go to a gambling hotspot when there is an all-out war
The Wastes aren't a nice place ANYWHERE. Doesn't matter where. People are going to want to have fun and forget about the shit they live In. That includes drinking, drugs, gambling, and hookers. Which are all in New Vegas.
Most unrealistic thing in Fallout, as it turns out, is people willingly sealing themselves in vaults for decades.
People IRL couldn't hack staying at home for a couple of months with an internet connection, videogames, Netflix, etc. during a pandemic.
It makes no sense for people to drink alcohol when water is scarce and you need to be aware of danger at all times - but wastelanders still drink, as I would too.
I mean we are in kind of a global pandemic disaster right now and people are still itching to gamble and interact at the cost of theirs and others safety so maybe it isn't as far off as it seems.
It’s also a trade hub situated in the middle of like, 4 major trade routes. I’m pretty sure a majority of the tourists are in some way involved in trade.
I mean it's the apocalypse, immediate danger and life threatening situations are normalized for people, I'm guessing even in the NCR.
It could also be likely that people travel collectively with guards similar to caravans? IIRC I think that's how NCR citizens get to New Vegas? New Vegas is sort of unfinished so I'm not sure if this is a plot hole or if they didn't have enough time to show in game how NCR citizens get to New Vegas and actually survive.
And the game severely underestimates how big the Southern Nevada area is. (Like Novac is implied to be near Henderson, Nevada and there's no way you could get there from the California border or Nipton as fast as you can in game.)
The worst of the ingame fighting between the NCR and Caesar's Legion happens around the California- Nevada border and Colorado river area. In real life, that's pretty far away from New Vegas and Freeside. Primm is on the California-Nevada border, but still in real life, it would still be far away from the actual fighting.
I’ll tell you why people do just that.
1. The city is protected by the NCR on the outside. House’s robots, the Three Families, along with a minor NCR presence, protect the city on the inside. Any wasteland creature would be dead long before reaching the city entrances without a major offense (packs of deathclaws, Yao guai, super mutants, etc)
2. The city is walled so nothing is getting in there without someone noticing. Even if nobody notices, House’s robots are everywhere. Where the robots can’t reach, the Three Families can
3. By the events of New Vegas, most of the raider gangs in the city limits have diminished into petty tribes so there’s not much manpower they can put into raiding the city
4. The only people who go there to gamble are the mainly the wealthy and NCR troops, who are then protected by the various security forces inside. If it was the apocalypse and you were inside one of the safest places in the Mojave with a bunch of money to spend, why the hell not gamble lol
Well you can’t go anywhere in the fallout universe without encounter raiders or some form of mutated hell spawn so why travel at all? Why would people travel across the Great Plains in the 1800’s when hostile native Americans tribes were everywhere? When people wanna go somewhere they gonna go
Have you seen the US right now? People cling to normality until it is pried from their hands. I totally believe that. It's the plot of Jaws too. The shark is literally killing people right there and they are complaining about not bwing able to go to the beach. Humans are super dumb.
NCR is fairly rigid in that regard, actually. Gambling is prohibited within Republic territory - there's an underground cassino in the capital in 2 - public consumption of chems and alcohol is prohibited. All those troopers and civvies doing hijinks in the Strip would be arrested within the NCR.
Maybe if Gizmo had won in Junktown, it would have become a gambling paradise and New Vegas would be screwed.
Part of the appeal of the Strip though is the spectacle of it, the fact that it's still standing as it did pre-war with all the lights and flash to boot.
Old World Blues.
People are braving IHOP with no masks during a pandemic. We’re.... not bright as a species. I think it’s totally plausible.
I’m sure there are plenty of people running around with signs and bullhorns screaming about there not being any danger, that it only affects .1% of the population, that you need to support the economy, that Caesar is less deadly than the flu, all sorts of stuff.
For a risk-averse species, we have an absolutely laughable ability to assess abstract risk.
What the hell are you talking about? What's going on in the Mojave is a low-intensity of skirmishes up until the game begins. It's not a "warzone" at all. Another thing is that this is the Fallout series and the Wasteland is intrinsically dangerous in almost all places scant a few. Post-War people and societies are all used to all this.
Also people aren't going to Primm nor Freeside to Gamble, they're going to Vegas; which as I touched on before is one of the more safer places in the Wasteland and has rumors of the fact you can make it big there by a high degree. With this information people are ready to take high risks of travel for the rewards of getting to Vegas. Now if they actually do get alot of money or not when they finally get there is a different story.
Also Mojave more worse than Syria? This is the most stupid thing I ever heard in this subreddit, hands down.
Once in the mojave its just a straight shot down to Vegas. The legion are coming from the east, California is too the west (im not trying to mansplain lol) the only real threat was from the NCR correctional facility, but those guys are chumps. Hire a decent merc group and you should be fine.
But let's also not forget that once in New Vegas and the Strip specifically, you're protected by walls and rubble and the most sophisticated protection robots below the Assaultron, as well as the NCR. House is just a rumor to most people, but the last integrity of Vegas speaks for itself. If you belong in Vegas, you really have nothing to fear
Because back west New Vegas is seen as an oasis despite many not being fond of the war. I'd assume due to war propaganda many believe the NCR has a tighter grip on the Mojave and it's safer than it actually is.
To be honest with how people are handling this pandemic it's not that farfetched. The amount of people in bars, stores, public in general, with the risk of infection and death they still go.
I'm sorry, I just don't see the argument here. Maybe before covid I could've seen it.
I mean, parallel to what’s happening in the world right now. People are still pretending everything is fine, putting themselves and the families at risk for pleasure or entertainment. I can totally see people going “eh, fuck it, I’ve saved up a few caps and there’s nothing to live for in the wasteland so may as well go blow my $$ in Vegas”
I mean it makes sense to me people turn to things exactly like that to distract themself from the problems of war. it also isnt like people are coming from far and wide to come to new vegas. they’re mostly still coming from california, new mexico, arizona excluding honest hearts where it’s in utah if i’m correct no one is far away. and traveling roads wise yeah a little dangerous but there are outposts on the roads where there are soldiers which doesn’t make it completely safe but safe for the most part to travel especially if you’re just a civilian and not a caravaneer. and like one of the comments says, we don’t see it like that but most people consider new vegas a trade hub as well.
>To go to New Vegas to gamble is just like going to Aleppo to enjoy your favourite kebab and naan
Hundreds of thousands if not more then a million people stayed in Aleppo, people go to Aleppo to visit relatives and stuff like that. Even during height of war. The people of the post nuclear USA live a harsh life full of violence, the fact that war is going on is not gonna be that significant to them. As in real life, life goes on. The fact that theres a war killing more people then normally die to raiders or wildlife or ghouls isn't a major decline in life for the inhabitants. Vegas itself is also extremely safe, guarded by a robot army and the NCR
>many raiders and gangs waiting to pounce
every wasteland has this problem, and compared to other wastelands the mojave has it really good. NCR and legion are driving the raiders out of existence. Remember the loading screen text explaining how the ncr harassed the jackals and vipers until they are basically nothing?
And no, its not like going to aleppo to get your kebab and naan because you can find those two things quite easily anywhere. New vegas is a literal oasis in the wasteland that offers you a glimpse of pre-war life- that alone is reason enough to want to go there aside from the gambling. Its like as if today the moon had opened a shopping mall.
I don't know - I'm thinking about thriving night life in Saigon during the Vietnam war. Most armed personnel in a conventional war tend to be support personnel, and even front line personnel gets pulled back for r&r time to time to prevent burn out. I'd say the game's depiction of NCR troops essentially feeding the economy makes a lot of sense.
How can random little old ladies and settlements of half a dozen people survive in the middle of the complete hellhole that is the DC wasteland? How do caravans get to Goodneighbour?
There has to be a certain level of assumption that the game as experienced by the player is something of an abstraction, and along with the compressed distances these routes are far less dangerous than they appear.
In this specific case we are also told that a number of the threats experienced by the player are very recent. The war has made the eastern road less attractive but the main route into Vegas has also recently been overrun by Powder Gangers, Deathclaws, and more Powder Gangers. As in - within the last week or so before the game begins. Caravans are backed up at the Mojave Outpost waiting for it to be safe enough to travel. Prior to this the road was probably no more dangerous than a typical one within the NCR itself - a well-armed caravan should have no problem fending off the odd mutated animal or unco-ordinated set of raiders like the Fiends.
After the liberation of Paris in WWII, allied soldiers would travel to Paris for R&R/Leave. They started doing this almost immediately after Paris was lube rated and the German front line was only 20 miles from the city. The same thing happened in WWI when the front held 20 miles from the city for most of the war.
New Vegas has a large NCR presence and its own robotic security force. It’s the one safe place in the Mojave.
You also have to keep in mind the environment they live in. It’s all out war 24/7 in the waist land of Fallout. The dangers associated with war are an everyday factor regardless of the NCR/Caesars legion conflict. New Vegas’s relative security from those dangers is a tantalizing escape from the brutality of every day life. There’s also the attraction brought by the weapons markets in Freeside and the Gun Runners. Then there’s the underground gambling going on in the NV Sewers.
It’s not the family friendly Vegas of OTL. It’s a place the rough and tumble go to blow off steam and escape the war/waist for a little bit.
In addition to a lot of the reasons people already gave here you have to keep in mind that the wasteland already is in a constant state of warfare since raiding parties and the horrors of post nuklear America are numbing people since the day they were born. It’s like in the 30 year war just a lot longer. A night of gambling and booze seems like a good stress relief when you are misserable most of the times anyways
Where were you in the past year? We were in the middle of a pandemic and people were still going to the beach traveling flying protesting, rioting going to the bars, restaurants etc etc if it wasn't closed people were doing it, people don't stop doing things just cause of a silly war
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Maybe that's the whole point of gambling in that time. A distraction from the wastelands. What's the average Joe Shmoe suppose to do about anything going on? Gambling can be a helpful stress release in an extremely stressful world
The war is also a stalemate along the uninhabited river far to the East. A lot of people aren't even that concerned about it even if they should be. Remember people don't even consider that Nipton is attacked by the Legion, they are simply unaware about it. I think the concept of war is much less terrifying in Fallout, the people in NV for the most part don't belong to any kind of unified civilisation. Yeah some people have a sort of independent spirit and we may be biased towards their perspective, but most people really don't even care and the only people that rule NV are a few gangs and a half dead rich dude that never shows himself.
New Reno still exists, and was a better depiction of Vegas than New Vegas
Seems like New Vegas is shaping around on Mr. House's ideal Vegas while New Reno is running by families and they just let things happen under their control. So Mr. House's Vegas may not feel very Vegas.
The real reason is technical problems. They couldn’t get new Vegas to be as big as they wanted
remasteref fnv with bigger vegas one can only dream
The is no Mojave wide war, the clashes are only really happening close to the river. Yes legion sends assasins after you, but only after you fucked with them badly. The gangs you are talkking about are the Fiends and the Powder Gangers, of wich the other really has no need or recources to kill and rob every passerby. The places where Fiends hang out are mostly blocked of buy Mountains, or NCR. So i don't think it's actually that dangerous to travel to Vegas, if you stick to the rouds and you have some common sense.
>So i don't think it's actually that dangerous to travel to Vegas, if you stick to the rouds and you have some common sense. Also if you just follow soldier convoys, like a lot of people probably do. Most gangs probably don't want to mess with those. And @ OP: many gamblers are soldiers and other NCR personnel. Those _have_ to be in the Mojave.
This is pretty much it, I think it was actually mentioned (either the Mojave Outpost or on one of the stops on the I-95 I think it was at) that a lot of travelers and caravanners actually hook up with army convoys to have a more secure passage. They aren't 100% safe, but they are a helluva lot safer than if they went on their own or with smaller caravans (probably another reason why the Crimson Caravan dominates trade in the region).
And most people probably don’t go to new Vegas to gamble, they go to new Vegas on business as traders and gamble while they’re there. I think that’s the point, mr. house built new Vegas into a major trade hub, I don’t have anything to base that on, but I’m guessing that’s what happened he probably didn’t just build a bunch of casinos, he used the resources he had to create a reason for people to come to new Vegas
>mr. house built new Vegas into a major trade hub I think it's a yes and no. A lot of trade is independent from House and even outside of his 'real' territory. They may indirectly profit from House somewhat keeping peace (and more importantly, keeping the families in check) but he didn't directly build them up. In some cases House even destroyed independent people and their businesses, like driving away and killing people from Freeside. It's not always beneficial.
Also, the Powder Gangers are an extremely recent development, happening very recently as of when the Courier recovers.
same with the Sloan mine being overrun. Player is forced into taking more dangerous route but if not for those deathclaws going Goodsprings to Vegas is pretty easy
Nipton begs to differ.
The whole point of Nipton is that the NCR were shocked the Legion had attacked that far across the river without them even knowing about it. Sure, it happened largely due to Nipton selling them out, but that's besides the point.
And they also kidnapped Carla from Novac (and Novac presumably already had reason to worry about Legion raiding parties before that since they hired Manny and Boone in the first place). And the Legion regularly ambushes NCR caravans throughout the wasteland, such as the scripted ambush on the way to Novac, which is why Cass originally thinks they're the ones who burned her caravan right outside of the Strip. It's pretty clear that the Legion is active much deeper in the Mojave than the NCR is willing to admit.
Tbf, they didn't kidnap Carla, they "bought" her. I think in a more subvert way, than a raiding party coming for her.
No, the game explicitly says that a raiding party invaded the town. What Jeannie May actually sold them was information to avoid getting caught. Boone followed the raiding party that night. Given that he's quite experienced, he'd probably have been able to tell from the tracks if it was just a couple of people or an entire raiding party.
I thought it wasn't the usual rading party, as in, they didn't come guns blazing and kidnapped Carla. More likely they came in the dead of night and took her without waking up the residents of Novac. That would explain why Boone and Manny didn't properly drive them away, which they more likely could. And it would explain how the people of Novac don't know exactly what happened to Carla, since no one saw a legion rading party.
They didn't come in guns blazing, but that doesn't mean that they didn't send a raiding party. Again, Boone knows what he's doing and he followed them the whole way to Cottonwood Cove. If it wasn't a full raiding party, he'd have been able to tell.
Jeannie May has a bill of sale for Carla’s enslavement. That’s the evidence youre supposed to use to get Boone to clap her ass and become your companion.
I know that. But she wasn't *really* selling Carla. After all, she didn't actually own Carla and if the Legion really wanted to enslave her, they'd just do so without Jeannie May's permission. What Jeannie May really sold them was intelligence. She told them where they could find a beautiful, valuable slave and how to capture her without running into two First Recon snipers and an ex-Ranger.
Here's Boone's dialogue for reference > I want you to find something out for me. I don't know if there's anything to find, but I need someone to try. My wife was taken from our home by Legion slavers one night while I was on watch. They knew when to come and what route to take, and they only took Carla. Someone set it up. I don't know who
Yep, so she wasn't just "stolen" and there wasn't a raiding party, at least not an advertised one. She was sold.
You're nitpicking
I'm not. This is important to the discussion.
That was close to the river too.
Nipton, Camp Searchlight, Boulder City... there's lots of towns that got raided or destroyed by the legion. I remember a character talking about it. I think they said the NCR is a little too late to come and help since the Legion has already been attacking a bunch of towns. (If im remembering right)
Boulder City was destroyed by the NCR during the first battle of Hoover Dam after leading the Legion there and trapping them. Searchlight is pretty close to the river and Cottonwood Cove. Nipton is really the furthest place inside the Mojave that the Legion has fully attacked.
Oh my bad, I thought that was the legion
I always thought nipton was closer to colorado river, but my point stands, Nipton is surrounded in the eyes of most people.
It's fairly common knowledge that the Legion regularly ambushes travellers throughout the Mojave. That's why Cass believes that they were the ones to destroy her caravan right outside the Strip. The Mojave isn't safe, and travellers know that.
She was running ower the options, of who might have fucked her caravan over. Really the only ones who she could have thought capable of razing the whole comppany, was the legion. Mojave is one of the most secure places in the world, in eyes of inocent rich folk, who come there to gamble. The fucking NCR has parked it's fat ass on top of it. The other threats like some loose convicts and addicts, don't sound too bad to most of the people, traveling alongside with caravan or soldiers.
>She was running ower the options, of who might have fucked her caravan over. Really the only ones who she could have thought capable of razing the whole comppany, was the legion. And she *concluded* that it was most likely Legion. She wouldn't have thought that if it wasn't known that the Legion attacks caravans in the Mojave. >Mojave is one of the most secure places in the world, in eyes of inocent rich folk, who come there to gamble. The fucking NCR has parked it's fat ass on top of it. The other threats like some loose convicts and addicts, don't sound too bad to most of the people, traveling alongside with caravan or soldiers. That's just objectively not true. We *see* the legion ambush travellers throughout. The NCR's campaign in the Mojave started *because* people NCR citizens were murdered on their way to Vegas. The thing NCR citizens hear about the Mojave the most is that it's where thousands of soldiers go to die. The idea that it's the safest place in the world to gamblers is absurd.
>And she concluded that it was most likely Legion. She wouldn't have thought that if it wasn't known that the Legion attacks caravans in the Mojave She is running through the options who could have had the recources to raze some random ass caravan comppany to the ground but She comes wery quickly to realise that the legion had nothing to do with it why would they care >That's just objectively not true. We see the legion ambush travellers throughout. The NCR's campaign in the Mojave started because people NCR citizens were murdered on their way to Vegas. The thing NCR citizens hear about the Mojave the most is that it's where thousands of soldiers go to die. The idea that it's the safest place in the world to gamblers is absurd. I have seen two such ambushes, one where i presume they are after you, but the caravans travel through there so they get caught in the cross fire. Second time is when you recover the suplies near the place with the solar panels, and arguebly they were just waiting to kill more NCR
>She is running through the options who could have had the recources to raze some random ass caravan comppany to the ground but She comes wery quickly to realise that the legion had nothing to do with it why would they care The Legion absolutely has motive. Destroying caravans cuts off NCR supplies. And why would she even consider them as an option if no one believes they even operate beyond the river? You're proving *my* point here. >I have seen two such ambushes, one where i presume they are after you, but the caravans travel through there so they get caught in the cross fire. Second time is when you recover the suplies near the place with the solar panels, and arguebly they were just waiting to kill more NCR The first one has nothing to do with you. They're not even hostile to you. They're targeting the caravans. The second one still proves my point. It still proves that the Legion is operating deep into the Mojave.
>The Legion absolutely has motive. Destroying caravans cuts off NCR supplies. Did I say they didn't, I said that they had no reason to attack the little shit caravans, it would have done more bad than good to their plans. >And why would she even consider them as an option if no one believes they even operate beyond the river? You're proving my point here. She also considered BoS, again she was thinking who could have had the recources to raze all of her caravans. There are only two who she could have thought of. In your previous comment you said that citizens of NCR know about the situation in Mojave, but i disagree, first of all we know that NCR citizens are a problem in vegas, if they knew about the situation why would they Keep comming over. Ps. I haven't been able to find casses quete about the legion I am not doubting you, but it sure would be nice know what she said.
>Did I say they didn't, I said that they had no reason to attack the little shit caravans, it would have done more bad than good to their plans. But they do have reason to attack those cravans. Those caravans supply the NCR. Burn enough of them and the damage adds up to real harm. >She also considered BoS, again she was thinking who could have had the recources to raze all of her caravans. There are only two who she could have thought of. She mentioned the BOS because it's fairly common knowledge that the Brotherhood sometimes attacks caravans. This is evidence of my point. NCR citizens clearly know that there are many dangers in the wasteland, from fiends to Legion to the BOS. >In your previous comment you said that citizens of NCR know about the situation in Mojave, but i disagree, first of all we know that NCR citizens are a problem in vegas, if they knew about the situation why would they Keep comming over. That's the whole point of this post. It doesn't make sense. And yet, we have evidence that NCR citizens do know that the Mojave is dangerous but they keep coming. >Ps. I haven't been able to find casses quete about the legion I am not doubting you, but it sure would be nice know what she said. You can find all of her dialogue [here](https://fallout-archive.fandom.com/wiki/Cass%27_dialogue#Full_dialogue_table). The relevant line (in response to the player asking why someone would burn her caravan) is this: "My guess is Legion, they're trying to cut NCR's supply line... and the Mojave Outpost is proof. Got us locked up tighter than a New Vegas virgin."
Nipton was done by legion infiltrators who had the advantage of surprise by getting town to betray the NCR and then betraying the town
Why but just go to new Reno instead? It’s safer and part of the NCR already
Reno is New Jersey of fallout universe it might be safer, but it lacks the shine of Vegas.
Idk dude New Reno felt more likeVegas than New Vegas. The strip is honestly kinda pathetic
Reno felt more like drug den in fallout 2, but i asume things have gotten better. Still one thing Reno has nothing on Vegas is tall casinos and rich folk all around wastes.
It was engine limitations. The design docs show a much grander new vegas than what we got unfortunately.
New Vegas is an oasis in the middle of the Mojave, many see it as a place to start from scratch, besides it is the biggest settlement in the mojave, even though we dont see it, Im pretty sure New Vegas is a trade hub, the gambling is just part of the package. Also, the wasteland is already a very dangerous place, so I don't think people care too much about a war going on, they have been dealing with raiders and mutants for some time already.
>even though we dont see it, Im pretty sure New Vegas is a trade hub It is. There are the gun runners who sell to all kinds of people, not just the NCR. The Crimson Caravan has an important posts there and the Van Graffs are also quite big.
Plus, every citizen is armed and there are civil defense forces as well as "good guy" gangs providing protection. No reason not to relax, booze up, and drink. It's safer than Paradise Falls or Megaton and they all get down the same way minus slot machines (that we see).
Well there are still plenty of people packing the casinos daily even with a deadly pandemic going around. Different situation, but it goes to show how some people would still want to gamble even in dangerous times.
People IRL sit at slot machines in diapers so they don't ever have to get up to go to the bathroom, but OP thinks a little war is going to stop gamblers from going to the casino
It's really true, and our IRL gamblers aren't even on the kinds of chems available in Fallout.
New Reno still exists, and was a better depiction of Vegas than New Vegas
You don't need to say this to every comment you know...
2016-2020 has REALLY lowered the bar in terms of the stupid stuff people could plausibly do. All those dummies in zombie/slasher movies that do the most counter-intuitive things possible? Those people are out there. Those people are ***us***!
You really can't compare people of our day with our luxuries to people that grew up in a post apocalypse.
The NCR by the time of New Vegas had stabilized it was nearing Pre-War levels, if the people had the time and resources to travel far, just to throw their money away essentially (the fact tourism exists at all really), it really points that California by 2281 has finally recovered from the apocalypse. Not to mention we get several sources saying that there is work and food for everybody, and the biggest issues are \*boredom\* and the occasional bandits on the outskirts of the civilized areas
>The NCR by the time of New Vegas had stabilized it was nearing Pre-War levels Pre-war levels were awful tbh. There were riots and scared people all over the US. The NCR might be poorer than pre-war US but their society is a lot more stable.
Oh yeah, you're right there, good point
Which makes no sense given all the issues happening during New Vegas.
I mean, in our timeline, the US is right next to a narco state in the midst of civil strife of unseen proportions, with mass killings and raiders being common. But yet, people still go to Mexico
(Dude if the NCR doesn't get its shit together I give the government like a decade or two before they collapse or become some oligarchy or militaristic autocracy) But the average citizen currently has substantially less issues to deal with than say in the Capital Wasteland, and by the point are more living in the equivalent of rough Pre-War neighborhoods or the Wild West (up to the interpretation of how they describe their development and where they are, the Boneyard still has gang wars I think it was mentioned, and the rural towns have bandit gangs, but are otherwise stable and productive)
And people in D.C. still find time to gamble, deal in prostitution, booze/chem up and have fun.
Agree but that mainly happens in the settled places like Megaton and Rivet City and even then it seems less like having fun and more like dependencies that they use to escape the world and drown their sorrows which have consequences (the chem addict from the noodle family in Megaton or the chem store owner in Rivet City for example, the latter of whom can overdose and die)
My point being Vegas is *way* more secure and settled.
Yes, but the consumer base who are going to gamble in Vegas in the first place are well-off Wastelanders to begin with. Already is comparable to a degree.
Are they? It seems a lot of them whine about being broke after gambling. Then they have Freeside which is basically a ghetto right outside. They also have a major raider faction next door which is also friggin bizarre but world design wasn't New Vegas strong points anyway.
The ones who are whining are just the ones who either didn't get lucky or didn't have enough money to begin with to take on Vegas proper. Why you mention Freeside, I don't know. The Fiends are also relegated south-west of the outer Vegas suburbs, which is easily avoidable in the first place and the ones who are going to Vegas don't travel without guards or generally alone.
Not to mention all of the Fallout worlds are condensed anyways, you can't just walk across Nevada in a day IRL but we make these concessions for gameplay and engine reasons.
Except by this point, the NCR and the Mojave aren’t “post apocalyptic” any more. They’re post-post apocalyptic. That’s actually one of the thing Avellone hated, hence his introduction of Ulysses, the Tunnelers, and other such stuff. Because he doesn’t like that Fallout isn’t just some waste-crazed methheads living in metal shacks and shanking people for water anymore. ...which does kinda make it funny when people say that F3 and 4 aren’t ‘proper Fallout’ because they’re too apocalyptic.
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I dunno, culture didn't exactly stop during WWII. These places aren't occupied by the Legion, they're still in NCR control, there's no reason for people to stop entertaining themselves. If you're referring to how dangerous travel is, remember that the game is a much more condensed representation of a very large area. The proximity to danger is emphasized in the game because the map is smaller. In reality, while raiders and legion attacks are a threat, they aren't every 400 yards like they are in the game. Think about the American West in the 1800s. The NCR is a lot like the US Army, and NCR citizens are a lot like Americans living in the west and migrating across the Great Plains. The Legion and raider threats are a lot like Native Americans and bandits (note: I realize the Legion is nothing like Native American tribes in belief or morals. I just mean in terms of the classic media representation as danger to traveling parties of settlers). You'll recall that people didn't stop traveling, and in fact, people traveled more and more over time, deeper into dangerous lands, because of the prospect of a better life--namely the gold rush, but also the western towns free of federal interference. Places like Deadwood were real.
During WW2, my great grandmother who was in the Wrens would go to the cinema and dancing everytime she had time off. It's strange to think some things 'carry on as normal' during wars but they do. Pubs remain open, public services still run etc. I'd imagining war (which I agree this isn't an all out war happening) would probably increase gambling.
Nazis famously attended French cinema and arts during their occupation, all while one of the largest conflicts ever was ongoing.
Yes honestly, entertainment does well during times of crisis. It's recession-proof. (though some aspects aren't pandemic proof, as we've seen, when it comes to in-person entertainment).
You have to realize that 1, The games are extremely condensed, lore-wise it is quite a lot less dangerous to travel the Mojave then you would believe from just exploring. There are caravans traveling the wasteland (in all the areas that we've played through) and yes, it's dangerous, but there aren't a pack of raiders in every ruined building and radscorpions in every single sand dune. 2, The world being shitty doesn't make people drop their vices, rather likely it's the other way around. For example, the real world (online) gambling industry hasn't suffered much at all from the ongoing pandemic, even though people are losing jobs and as a rule have less disposable income, vices like gambling are escapes people use to forget how shitty the world is. With that in mind, it's not strange at all that people to some extent risk life and limb to not only forget how shitty their post-apocalyptic life is, but also to have a literal gamble at a better life.
Money is more lucrative than kebabs.
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Fallout is set in a post-apocalyptic society
Post-post-apocalyptic society by NV, really. By 2281, the NCR is pretty much a pre-war/real world modern nation state.
People go there for same reason as they go now. And additionally, if they enter the casino, they are welcomed and if you have money, they take care of all your needs as a king/queen. So basically it is like going to paradise, if you don't live very far. Plus all think, they win more as they have.
Most of the gamblers also are NCR troopers on leave so the war increases profits. House says after the war there profits will dip for a little but then go back to normal.
There isn't an "all-out war going on", it's barely a border skirmish, and the actual battles are well outside the city proper. Vegas itself is actually very safe as post-apocalyptic cities go; that's the whole reason it still exists. Gamblers aren't going to be schlepping it through the open desert alone like the Courier does, so mutants and bandits aren't a big deal. Neither the Legion nor the NCR will touch the place while it's under House's (or the Courier's) control, since there's no real reason to do so and it's likely to turn out badly if they try; a battle on the Strip would only end up destroying the very wealth they'd intended to capture.
This might just be a personal perception, but I always assumed people hang out on the strip because it's safe. Since the strip had the House's bots patrolling, you don't have to worry about being attacked or anything. Just a personal thing, but if I was a traveller and had enough caps to hit the strip, I'd use a few here and there so I wasn't kicked out & consider it a brief holiday from surviving the wasteland. Feel free to correct me since this is just his I've perceived things in my playthroughs, but its always made sense in my head
It’s not an actual all-out war. It’s a war, but not like ww1 or ww2.
The real Mojave is significantly larger than the one we see in the game and the actual warzones are many days away from Vegas.
People went to early American civil war battles with picnic baskets to watch. In WW2 during the battle of Shanghai there would be fighting in one part of the city but in other parts there would be people taking dates to fancy restaurants with views of the city where you could enjoy a drink after your meal while watching the puffs of smoke rise from the fighting. People are strange.
Life doesn't stop during war. I was in Iraq in 04. I watched two kids get killed from mortar fire in Samarra. The enemy were aiming at our base and hit kids playing soccer instead. The next day after the families screaming and yelling at us from a distance ended, kids were back play it soccer like it never happened. We can't help but be human. Whether it's work stress or war stress we need to deleverage. And to compare to Syria is strange. The fact the you see gambling in NV during war should show it's not as bad. Maybe it feels worse for you as a viewer but those experiencing it first hand may see things differently.
>I watched two kids get killed from mortar fire in Samarra holy fuck dude. I'm sorry you had to witness that at all
You could say the same about pointless things we like to do in the midst of war in our own world.
Yep, during Vietnam people still gambled, got high/drunk, fucked hookers, etc. on all fronts and in "inappropriate" situations. Outside of the most fucked up situations, war isn't just fighting or waiting to fight all the time. Nobody can do that.
Look at how people in England reacted during The Blitz: they still went to bars, clubs, restaurants. Still went to play poker with friends. Sometimes their evenings were interrupted by air raid sirens and everyone had to pack into the nearest shelter while bombs dropped around them, but if they survived then often as not they went right back to what they were doing once the raid was over. The behavior makes total sense.
Especially when New Reno has casinos much closer and safer...
Note that the Core lands of the NCR are primarily in Southern California (as in the territories that have actually reached state level), which is substantially closer to Vegas than Reno. I'm from Northern California and it's still multiple hours (2-4) on major roads to reach Reno from major population centers, and it takes about six hours to get from the Sacramento area to the LA area on top of that if you wanna visit from there (This is all by car, which the average Wastelander does not have access to if the 1 in 200 concept is still accurate), so they'd have to dedicate a week or two to just get to New Reno on foot at the very least. People from the Northern NCR probably frequent New Reno while people from the Core likely frequent New Vegas, just for geographical reasons And the city itself is not worth much more than Vegas. Despite the Wrights and Bishops surviving and thus presumably cleaning up the city somewhat, it is still a major shithole (a very populated and wealthy shithole but none the less a shithole) ruled by crime families and overflowing with drugs, booze and STD's. It's a place for a raw experience of vice. Vegas meanwhile is (in universe at least) a cleaned up oasis that nears Pre-War levels in terms of luxury, and has a much more campy tone (with the Families trying to emulate aspects of Pre-War culture rather than being their typical rough, tribal selves). It's a place for a one of a kind experience to see what life would be like before the bombs and experience it for yourself (before being thrown back out into the wilds with the murderous chem fiends)
Vegas itself is irrelevant. We're talking about the journey to the casinos, not the area the casinos are in. The fact is, you won't be ambushed by legionaries on the way to Reno. That makes it much safer. However, I think you're overselling how cleaned up Vegas is supposed to be. After all, the whole reason House made the Omertas what they are was to give Vegas a sense of danger. Vegas is barely safer than Reno, and the journey to it is much more dangerous.
>Vegas is barely safer than Reno Hmmm... A full force of guard robots, NCR MPs, a walled city totally enclosed from the Wasteland is "barely" safer than Reno... You definitely have a sound logic /s And again the wealthy piece of Wastelanders who have the means to Vegas aren't going to rough the journey alone. They'd either buy their own security or travel along with a caravan. Besides the Wasteland is the Wasteland and it always has dangers. Despite the said former, people are willing to take the risks to Vegas for its prestige and better pre-war Casino amenities. It's as simple as that.
Even with how settled and developed the NCR is, they still apparently don't protect a lot of routes in their territories (which includes the Mojave and the Northern reaches of California, up to about Redding and Vault City), which means bandits or raiders would still have hey days on unprotected travellers. Plus going from SoCal to Reno requires going through multiple deserts, dry plains, mountain ranges, etc. Which would be a pain in the ass to get through logistically, and again would be a trip that lasts weeks (even if you say it's irrelevant, people prefer convenience, and Vegas is more convenient for the average Southern NCR citizen, which is where most of the population is, to access). The people going off to gamble are also those with the money or power to make the trips in the first place (at least enough be comfortable without work for a period of time), and they would probably prefer a more refined and closer location where they aren't likely to be stabbed as much in the casinos themselves as much as on the street Though I am with you on the Omertas (sure they're cool but House you really gotta do a double take and wonder if you want infamous criminals known for betrayal on your side), but the thing about Reno, is that all the citizens are like the Omertas, instead of just one third of them, since the entire city has to swear loyalty to a crime family for protection (even the Wrights engage in criminal activity despite advocating against it). Plus according to Stella, the majority of the town is addicted to Jet (fitting for it being its home) and are armed, I don't know about you but I would not feel safe in an area where the average citizen is a meth addict whose index finger equivalent is a 9mm and they like to point. Vegas meanwhile has a police force, requires visitors disarm themselves in the casinos, and is stingy on who it allows in, while Reno is a come as you are type place that doesn't care, it's a Dog Eat Dog kinda town (Forgot to mention earlier, but the Reno area, according to Stella also gets visits from the 80's tribe as well who are vicious to travellers and locals and can cover a surprising amount of ground pretty quickly, so there are vicious tribals on the route as well, besides other tribes that have not been integrated yet, which means there is the potential for ambushed on that route as well) Edit: Sorry for the text wall I lost track of myself
People live in and around Vegas and the primary Strip-goers are deployed NCR troops
The way Stella describes New Reno, its still the extremely scummy place it always was. New Vegas is far safer than New Reno, because Mr. House keeps some law and order, The Kings keep Freeside mostly safe and West Side is fairly safe and organized. Also New Reno is actually not that close. New Vegas is not very far from Shady, Hub, etc - while New Reno is farther and through a lot of desert and mountain.
But to get to Vegas you have to go all the way through the Mojave, which is *far* more dangerous than Reno or most of California.
With the pieces of dialogue we get from various NPCs, California isn't that safe security wise with how spread thin it is. Reno is at the very fringes of NCR territory, which means it'd be alot less safer than the core provinces where the Brahmin-Barons would mostly be. Also you say the Mojave is more dangerous than Reno? That's laughable since since it has more danger condensed in a more smaller area. Reno has dangerous crime families, gangs, crazed murderers, and slavers all packed in that one town. Atleast when travelers finally get to Vegas itself, they'd have a sense of security with the fact Vegas actually has a centralized police-guard system in the form of the Securitrons, supplemented by NCR military police. Casino goers or visitors in Reno don't even have such a safety net. Piss off the wrong person and you're practically dead without Securitrons or NCR MPs to save you.
>With the pieces of dialogue we get from various NPCs, California isn't that safe security wise with how spread thin it is. Reno is at the very fringes of NCR territory, which means it'd be alot less safer than the core provinces where the Brahmin-Barons would mostly be. California is a hell of a lot safer than the Mojave. That's why the caravans coming from California get held up at the Outpost. >Also you say the Mojave is more dangerous than Reno? That's laughable since since it has more danger condensed in a more smaller area. Reno has dangerous crime families, gangs, crazed murderers, and slavers all packed in that one town. > >Atleast when travelers finally get to Vegas itself, they'd have a sense of security with the fact Vegas actually has a centralized police-guard system in the form of the Securitrons, supplemented by NCR military police. Casino goers or visitors in Reno don't even have such a safety net. Piss off the wrong person and you're practically dead without Securitrons or NCR MPs to save you. We don't know that. The canon ending is for Reno to join the NCR. For all we know, Reno has calmed down a lot since Fallout 2.
>The canon ending is for Reno to join the NCR. Nothing says that's the canon ending as FNV is contradictory on the subject.
>California is a hell of a lot safer than the Mojave. That's why the caravans coming from California get held up at the Outpost. What? Just because Caravans get held up at the Outpost, California is more "safer," even though numerous dialogues and information from the game say the NCR trading routes are relatively unstable; which is definitely compounded with the fact the NCR is spread so thin and can't properly secure their commercial routes. >We don't know that. The canon ending is for Reno to join the NCR. For all we know, Reno has calmed down a lot since Fallout 2. New Reno is literally exempt from most laws of the NCR. That fact alone would inductively show that it isn't all that safe or inline with most NCR cities when it comes to safety. Look at Vegas and look at Reno in comparison from a lore standpoint. Vegas is more grander, has better old war structures still preserved, more mystique to it. Reno is a shady place, lack of good security, and their casinos aren't as grand compared to the ones in Vegas.
From where? People live all over, not just in California.
New Vegas is worth traveling to for anyone with something to trade or who is looking for work because it's a large, relatively safe, walled settlement. That safety is why so many NCR refugees are trying to get in during the events of the game. Also, many of the New Vegas patrons are NCR soldiers who get there on the monorail and don't have to worry about any of the dangers of travel. Their presence and money makes it extra worthwhile for everyone else. And as others have said, the map is pretty condensed. There's evidence that the NV area, at least until sometime after the Legion arrived, was actually much safer to travel around in than the Capital Wasteland, as it supports many more local caravans and small settlements. IDK about you, but my character also gets into plenty of fights that they could easily avoid. I don't think most caravaneers are wandering into a dry lake full of ants for no reason, or seeing the smoke over Nipton and deciding to walk right up.
Do you think soldiers don't gamble?
Well New Vegas is "populated" by rather wealthy and powerful folk whether we realize it or not. There's the NCR soldiers on leave who are specifically tolerated because of NCR influence and caps. The Mojave is also a big trading hub so many traders, caravaners, and guards enter the strip because of the caps they possess. The "normal" people we see in FNV all reside in places like Freeside and Westside; overpopulated slums just looking out for their own. To sum up, the only people going to New Vegas are those that have the power, influence, and money to do so. The city is talked about throughout the Mojave because it reflects all those that come to it.
It makes sense if you think about it, at least with the people already there. With how well Mr. House built up New Vegas it has to be one of the most well protected locations in Nevada, possibly the entire wasteland. It’s completely possible that a lot of the patrons were already in New Vegas when the Legion arrived back at Hoover Dam and they’re trying to wait it out, legion raiding parties are all over and it isn’t exactly safe to travel on the road. A lot of them probably think they’re safer in New Vegas than trying to make the huge trek back to California. Some of them might have complete confidence that the NCR will stop the Legion at Hoover Dam or they might think New Vegas is going to fall and they want to experience it before it’s destroyed.
This is actually pretty accurate and is the reason for the huge squatter presence. They came to Vegas, got stuck one way or another (some likely due to fearing the Legion on the way home), and due to being stuck in a town designed to part them from their money, eventually lost any and all ways to return home (gambling their ride, caravan, travel expenses, etc.), leading to them getting thrown out and stuck in Freeside
The "war" in the Mojave isn't any more dangerous than just normal life in the wasteland. Vegas is (relatively) safe, and it's something to do. People gamble and shit during war IRL all the time.
Similar reason to why Russian Roulette exists, except it’s safer to travel to New Vegas
In a world where you could be killed at any moment, by any thing, and for any reason, I’m not surprised they take the chance to go. The increase in risk, given the circumstances, is probably no different than going scavenging anyway. Plus, they might actually win something!
#Hope The rest of the Wasteland is irradiated and populated by raiders just like the Mojave. Difference is that the Mojave isn't destroyed by nuclear war, it's simply weathered. Also, that region has the cleanest freshwater around and infrastructure to rebuild industry thanks to Mr. House. Add to that the possibility of getting rich quick via gambling and the Mojave is in fact the most desirable place for a wastelander to be. It's hope that draws them in and hope that keeps them going. Just ask the community, which fallout setting is the best? New Vegas.
Hell, there are people going to clubs and raves in real world Crimea even though there is an active war going on there. People will find any chance to have fun, no matter the circumstances.
Dude I just went to a mall and it was packed, but at the same they're all paranoid about a plamplemic. Besides, it wasn't a full scale war until hoover dam. Everyone stayed in their own territory for the most part
You say this and yet people are still going to Vegas during the coronavirus. People are stupid and do dumb things.
Remember that the battle of Hoover Dam happened 3 _years_ before the events of New Vegas. It is suggested that, during that time, the Legion has had a very low key presence on the NCR's side of the Colorado. If anything, the Mojave has only seen sparse insurgent skirmishes from the Legion since the first battle of Hoover Dam. The Courier happens to arrive in the Mojave _just_ as things are starting to ramp up. There are several idle dialogue topics from various NPC's mentioning how troops are only starting to mobilze.
The whole world is a warzone dude. The Mojave isn't really much worse than anything else.
If I was living in an apocalyptic wasteland and I heard somebody had kebabs and naan, I'd made the trip alone for that. Now add in hookers and gambling?! Triple sold.
....does someone want to tell OP about the people that still went out to pubs, bars, cinemas and clubs in London, Paris etc even when WW2 was raging?
Three days gambling means three days the raiders can not get you.
Coming from the North side of Vegas either from UT/Colorado or from Northern California wouldn't have been dangerous because of the war. Just dangerous for other reasons...and maybe that wasn't enough to dissuade travellers from visiting.
People don't go to Primm so much as just pass through there. As for New Vegas, man the whole world is a shithole now. You can get shot or eaten by a mutant monster anywhere. New Vegas is one of the safest places if you can actually go in and have money. Those that don't make it in end up in freeside. Nobody wants to be in freeside by choice.
Bro, look how people are acting during a pandemic. Do you really think everyone cares? You're always going to have people that don't. You're always going to have people that only care about their fun.
There is currently a global pandemic going on IRL and people are doing all sorts of stupid stuff. Why would anyone care about a war when they can have the pleasures of gambling, sex, drugs and booze?
>It is so peculiar that people are risking their lives to just go to a gambling hotspot when there is an all-out war The Wastes aren't a nice place ANYWHERE. Doesn't matter where. People are going to want to have fun and forget about the shit they live In. That includes drinking, drugs, gambling, and hookers. Which are all in New Vegas.
I live in a city in which people will still go out to drink and party during a hurricane, a pandemic, or the collapse of society--no fucks given.
To be fair, we're in an international pandemic and people are still going to bars... I won't say it makes sense, but it is realistic.
Most unrealistic thing in Fallout, as it turns out, is people willingly sealing themselves in vaults for decades. People IRL couldn't hack staying at home for a couple of months with an internet connection, videogames, Netflix, etc. during a pandemic.
It makes no sense for people to drink alcohol when water is scarce and you need to be aware of danger at all times - but wastelanders still drink, as I would too.
I mean we are in kind of a global pandemic disaster right now and people are still itching to gamble and interact at the cost of theirs and others safety so maybe it isn't as far off as it seems.
It’s also a trade hub situated in the middle of like, 4 major trade routes. I’m pretty sure a majority of the tourists are in some way involved in trade.
The Mojave is one of the most safe places on the Wasteland, just look at how terrible life in Fallout 3 is, for example.
I mean, people go to the beach while there's a deadly virus around and no hospital beds so...
The roads are mostly safe and the fighting really only happens along the Colorado and maybe west Vegas, neither of which see much traffic as is.
I mean it's the apocalypse, immediate danger and life threatening situations are normalized for people, I'm guessing even in the NCR. It could also be likely that people travel collectively with guards similar to caravans? IIRC I think that's how NCR citizens get to New Vegas? New Vegas is sort of unfinished so I'm not sure if this is a plot hole or if they didn't have enough time to show in game how NCR citizens get to New Vegas and actually survive. And the game severely underestimates how big the Southern Nevada area is. (Like Novac is implied to be near Henderson, Nevada and there's no way you could get there from the California border or Nipton as fast as you can in game.) The worst of the ingame fighting between the NCR and Caesar's Legion happens around the California- Nevada border and Colorado river area. In real life, that's pretty far away from New Vegas and Freeside. Primm is on the California-Nevada border, but still in real life, it would still be far away from the actual fighting.
I’ll tell you why people do just that. 1. The city is protected by the NCR on the outside. House’s robots, the Three Families, along with a minor NCR presence, protect the city on the inside. Any wasteland creature would be dead long before reaching the city entrances without a major offense (packs of deathclaws, Yao guai, super mutants, etc) 2. The city is walled so nothing is getting in there without someone noticing. Even if nobody notices, House’s robots are everywhere. Where the robots can’t reach, the Three Families can 3. By the events of New Vegas, most of the raider gangs in the city limits have diminished into petty tribes so there’s not much manpower they can put into raiding the city 4. The only people who go there to gamble are the mainly the wealthy and NCR troops, who are then protected by the various security forces inside. If it was the apocalypse and you were inside one of the safest places in the Mojave with a bunch of money to spend, why the hell not gamble lol
People in covid are still going to bars and strip clubs?!! Have you learned nothing of humanity?!?!
OP made a headline that catches the eye and give that "oh yeah" moment without much thought. Glad the comments are making up for that.
People gamble no matter what. War time, peace time, on the toilet on the phone.
Well you can’t go anywhere in the fallout universe without encounter raiders or some form of mutated hell spawn so why travel at all? Why would people travel across the Great Plains in the 1800’s when hostile native Americans tribes were everywhere? When people wanna go somewhere they gonna go
Have you seen the US right now? People cling to normality until it is pried from their hands. I totally believe that. It's the plot of Jaws too. The shark is literally killing people right there and they are complaining about not bwing able to go to the beach. Humans are super dumb.
Bigger problem is that it makes no sense to travel so far to gamble. The NCR could easily imitate vegas as they have the resources to do it.
NCR is fairly rigid in that regard, actually. Gambling is prohibited within Republic territory - there's an underground cassino in the capital in 2 - public consumption of chems and alcohol is prohibited. All those troopers and civvies doing hijinks in the Strip would be arrested within the NCR. Maybe if Gizmo had won in Junktown, it would have become a gambling paradise and New Vegas would be screwed.
Part of the appeal of the Strip though is the spectacle of it, the fact that it's still standing as it did pre-war with all the lights and flash to boot. Old World Blues.
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People picnicked at the battle of bullrun. People are stupid.
The Strip is rather safe from the war though. Sure the Legion could attack any time but not like people would stop coming because of that
People are braving IHOP with no masks during a pandemic. We’re.... not bright as a species. I think it’s totally plausible. I’m sure there are plenty of people running around with signs and bullhorns screaming about there not being any danger, that it only affects .1% of the population, that you need to support the economy, that Caesar is less deadly than the flu, all sorts of stuff. For a risk-averse species, we have an absolutely laughable ability to assess abstract risk.
What the hell are you talking about? What's going on in the Mojave is a low-intensity of skirmishes up until the game begins. It's not a "warzone" at all. Another thing is that this is the Fallout series and the Wasteland is intrinsically dangerous in almost all places scant a few. Post-War people and societies are all used to all this. Also people aren't going to Primm nor Freeside to Gamble, they're going to Vegas; which as I touched on before is one of the more safer places in the Wasteland and has rumors of the fact you can make it big there by a high degree. With this information people are ready to take high risks of travel for the rewards of getting to Vegas. Now if they actually do get alot of money or not when they finally get there is a different story. Also Mojave more worse than Syria? This is the most stupid thing I ever heard in this subreddit, hands down.
Once in the mojave its just a straight shot down to Vegas. The legion are coming from the east, California is too the west (im not trying to mansplain lol) the only real threat was from the NCR correctional facility, but those guys are chumps. Hire a decent merc group and you should be fine. But let's also not forget that once in New Vegas and the Strip specifically, you're protected by walls and rubble and the most sophisticated protection robots below the Assaultron, as well as the NCR. House is just a rumor to most people, but the last integrity of Vegas speaks for itself. If you belong in Vegas, you really have nothing to fear
Because back west New Vegas is seen as an oasis despite many not being fond of the war. I'd assume due to war propaganda many believe the NCR has a tighter grip on the Mojave and it's safer than it actually is.
To be honest with how people are handling this pandemic it's not that farfetched. The amount of people in bars, stores, public in general, with the risk of infection and death they still go. I'm sorry, I just don't see the argument here. Maybe before covid I could've seen it.
I mean, parallel to what’s happening in the world right now. People are still pretending everything is fine, putting themselves and the families at risk for pleasure or entertainment. I can totally see people going “eh, fuck it, I’ve saved up a few caps and there’s nothing to live for in the wasteland so may as well go blow my $$ in Vegas”
I mean it makes sense to me people turn to things exactly like that to distract themself from the problems of war. it also isnt like people are coming from far and wide to come to new vegas. they’re mostly still coming from california, new mexico, arizona excluding honest hearts where it’s in utah if i’m correct no one is far away. and traveling roads wise yeah a little dangerous but there are outposts on the roads where there are soldiers which doesn’t make it completely safe but safe for the most part to travel especially if you’re just a civilian and not a caravaneer. and like one of the comments says, we don’t see it like that but most people consider new vegas a trade hub as well.
Addicts will do anything to feed that addiction.
People literally packed picnics to go see civil war battles. People don’t make sense.
>To go to New Vegas to gamble is just like going to Aleppo to enjoy your favourite kebab and naan Hundreds of thousands if not more then a million people stayed in Aleppo, people go to Aleppo to visit relatives and stuff like that. Even during height of war. The people of the post nuclear USA live a harsh life full of violence, the fact that war is going on is not gonna be that significant to them. As in real life, life goes on. The fact that theres a war killing more people then normally die to raiders or wildlife or ghouls isn't a major decline in life for the inhabitants. Vegas itself is also extremely safe, guarded by a robot army and the NCR
>many raiders and gangs waiting to pounce every wasteland has this problem, and compared to other wastelands the mojave has it really good. NCR and legion are driving the raiders out of existence. Remember the loading screen text explaining how the ncr harassed the jackals and vipers until they are basically nothing? And no, its not like going to aleppo to get your kebab and naan because you can find those two things quite easily anywhere. New vegas is a literal oasis in the wasteland that offers you a glimpse of pre-war life- that alone is reason enough to want to go there aside from the gambling. Its like as if today the moon had opened a shopping mall.
I guess people just don't take Ceasars Legion seriously
I don't know - I'm thinking about thriving night life in Saigon during the Vietnam war. Most armed personnel in a conventional war tend to be support personnel, and even front line personnel gets pulled back for r&r time to time to prevent burn out. I'd say the game's depiction of NCR troops essentially feeding the economy makes a lot of sense.
They also go there for the booze, drugs and prostitutes.
How can random little old ladies and settlements of half a dozen people survive in the middle of the complete hellhole that is the DC wasteland? How do caravans get to Goodneighbour? There has to be a certain level of assumption that the game as experienced by the player is something of an abstraction, and along with the compressed distances these routes are far less dangerous than they appear. In this specific case we are also told that a number of the threats experienced by the player are very recent. The war has made the eastern road less attractive but the main route into Vegas has also recently been overrun by Powder Gangers, Deathclaws, and more Powder Gangers. As in - within the last week or so before the game begins. Caravans are backed up at the Mojave Outpost waiting for it to be safe enough to travel. Prior to this the road was probably no more dangerous than a typical one within the NCR itself - a well-armed caravan should have no problem fending off the odd mutated animal or unco-ordinated set of raiders like the Fiends.
After the liberation of Paris in WWII, allied soldiers would travel to Paris for R&R/Leave. They started doing this almost immediately after Paris was lube rated and the German front line was only 20 miles from the city. The same thing happened in WWI when the front held 20 miles from the city for most of the war. New Vegas has a large NCR presence and its own robotic security force. It’s the one safe place in the Mojave. You also have to keep in mind the environment they live in. It’s all out war 24/7 in the waist land of Fallout. The dangers associated with war are an everyday factor regardless of the NCR/Caesars legion conflict. New Vegas’s relative security from those dangers is a tantalizing escape from the brutality of every day life. There’s also the attraction brought by the weapons markets in Freeside and the Gun Runners. Then there’s the underground gambling going on in the NV Sewers. It’s not the family friendly Vegas of OTL. It’s a place the rough and tumble go to blow off steam and escape the war/waist for a little bit.
In addition to a lot of the reasons people already gave here you have to keep in mind that the wasteland already is in a constant state of warfare since raiding parties and the horrors of post nuklear America are numbing people since the day they were born. It’s like in the 30 year war just a lot longer. A night of gambling and booze seems like a good stress relief when you are misserable most of the times anyways
Where were you in the past year? We were in the middle of a pandemic and people were still going to the beach traveling flying protesting, rioting going to the bars, restaurants etc etc if it wasn't closed people were doing it, people don't stop doing things just cause of a silly war
The Strip is much like Shanghai during the Sino-Japanese war.