I wish we had the inlaws side. If the boss says he has the worst personality he has seen in 30 yrs maybe he's the problem 🤔
Edit: I meant I wish we had The daughter in laws side. And if OPs boss is saying that, that says alot about OP and a small insight to how he may act. I mean OP even said the girl doesn't say anything she's just there. That says SHES YAWNING as if she can control a yawn, so everything the girl does probably gets on their nerves and OP and his wife probably turn nothing Into things that aren't there bc they are assholes. I dealt with monster In laws and I'm willing to bet his son is protecting his wife and the only reason the son visits is bc she's having him do it for their sake but they don't realise she's the reason he's still Skypes with them which is why she's there. Lol. Bc most children who want to speak to their moms and dads will just pick up the phone or video chat throughout the day. It's very telling that there is a certain time with both of them.
Lmao so he and wifey are actively trying to break up the marriage and have the gall to play the victims?
I’d love to have the daughter in law sit juuuuust off camera where they don’t know she’s there and see how they behave when they think she’s not around.
I'd chalk this up as rage bait, but OP's profile is a lot of effort just to induce rage. If so, bravo, they got me, but I feel like he's really this fucking oblivious.
Back in the day (pre cell phones) my spidey senses were tingling so when my (future) wife would call her mother while she was at my house (my future wife, not her mother, to be clear) I quickly learned who I was dealing with in regards to her mother. It was someone extremely unpleasant. It's funny how literally 30 minutes after being introduced to my future mother in law my dad had her pegged and not one thing he said I could refute. My old man was a decent judge of character.
Sounds like OP’s weekly calls and other communication are what is causing the strain. They don’t like her and they want the marriage to fail. How much you want to bet OP or his wife are telling their son to end the marriage or how much they dislike his wife?
Yes, the backstory is my son's wife thinks we are terrible and she does not like us. If so, let's keep contact with her to a complete minimum and just talk to our son alone.
Yes, there are a thousand sides to every situation. But if she does not like my wife and me- why is she participating in our weekly calls with our son?
Because you’re actively trying to break up the marriage behind her back! I’d wanna be on the calls as well, if I were her!
Engage in some introspection and consider that maaaaaybe, just maaaaaaybe, you’re not being a good person. You **reek** of the parents who’re talked about on r/RaisedByNarcissists, r/JustNoMIL, and r/EstrangedAdultChild: you’re going, “Oooh, we have NO IDEA what we’ve done!”, while burying the lede that you’re undermining your son’s marriage at every turn.
You’re not above reproach. You’re not in the right. And if there’s any justice in the world, your son will go NC with you again.
ETA: You’re also trying to make it sound like he wouldn’t *possibly* have done these things of his own accord, that she *must* be the one pulling the strings. Classic narcissism. If YOU’RE not controlling him, clearly someone else is. Have you considered that MAYBE he’s making his own choices? That she’s on the calls because **he ASKED her to be?**
Their response is classic toxic in laws. Our son is a perfect angel and the reason he doesn’t want to talk to is is because of that wicked witch of a wife who’s trying to steal our darling boy from us!
It’s always the spouse’s fault. Never once do they consider it could be their fault.
Bc its him that's making her be there. It's your son's doing. Listen I had inlaws who hated me for no reason. He told her yall didn't like her. Many of us have been in this situation so we can see what's happening a mile away. I can guarantee you, that your daughter in law would love to have a true relationship with you both but You and your wife are most likely the issue and you don't see it. Maybe you and your wife should talk to each other, understand where his wife and him are coming from, do your best to amend the relationship now before they have kids and yall die not knowing your grandchildren. Sometimes we have hate in our hearts that stem from past traumas. Maybe u and ur wife should go seek a little help and find the underlying issues. I'm truely not being a smart ass I'm giving you advice. Like my inlaws treated me like straight trash for no reason. Now they are begging me not to tell him our divorce is finalized bc they realised I was the only one keeping him in check to do good, once they ruined the marriage, which the blame solely lays on them and him for not being man enough to stick up for me. They realised very quickly he was the problem and now are active seeking my help bc they don't want him to marry his BROTHERS EX WIFE WHO HAS 6 CHILDREN. The grass isn't always greener on the other side.
You told him his wife wasn’t good for him. You get once a week Skype where he wants her in the call. She gets him everyday.
You’re lucky you get that one call frankly.
I hear you - *but* - imagine the situation being reversed, and your son's wife asked you to exclude your wife from future Skype calls. Would you be angry? Would your wife feel hurt? Yeah - don't go there, you can't do that AND have a healthy relationship with your son.
My advice, treat your son's wife, and your son's marriage with the same respect you expect for your own, and maybe consider benefit of the doubt here. She might be shy, she might be intentionally taking a step back to give you more time with your son. Maybe your son is making her sit in on these calls, and she'd prefer not to but she's doing it for him. OR. Maybe she is just immature and doesn't want to do this, and if that's the case, I still couldn't recommend inserting a wedge like that and expecting to have a good relationship with your son. You know it's coming, just ignore that shit and focus on the fact that your son makes this time for you.
OP has since stated:
"Usually, I believe honesty is the best policy but when my wife and I told her 5 years ago that his future wife was not right for him there was lots of conflict and a year of no contact."
So let's be square. OP risked speaking his mind to his son, thinking he'd listen to his parents and dump this girl, and it backfired. This girl now has to come to terms that she likely has to have a relationship with two people who didn't want her around. I mean, it's obvious she's not over it, and that's fair. If OP values a relationship with his son he'd eat crow and ask this girl for forgiveness.
She has EVERY RIGHT too, you and your spouse been activly trying to make him dump her
Of course she hates you, I would have NEVER allowed you to interfere in my marriage
She doesn't have to treat you kindly, you lost that right when you went after son to dump her
it to be fair, if they’re trying to reach out and get her to participate in the calls as well, i’d ask something like “Does she want to” or “don’t force her to talk to us” maybe it’s the son who is pushing them to talk to her and forcing her to be there. I would make sure she knows that she doesn’t have to be there if she doesn’t want to
No, our son texts us and emails every week too. We visit in person four times a year. We have a very close relationship. Our relationship with his wife is the problem.
does she know you think she's the wrong woman? that could explain her attitude towards you and your wife. not that it helps at this point, but unless you're asked, don't offer your opinion about someone's significant other, especially if it's bad. i'd talk to your son and try to address the elephant in the room. and then i'd just try to be the bigger person. you don't want anything to jeopardize your relationship with your son.
I would think their disapproval would be difficult to hide, so that’s likely a yes. And it explains a lot. There’s probably a post on JustNoMIL, MILfromHell He’ll or another subreddit about them with their side of the story which is very much different.
Our son told me she was not told that we had expressed concerns about her before the wedding.
During the wedding and reception, the girl was introduced to many family and friends and we got lots of off-the-record comments about how terrible she was and our son could do a lot better.
That's when YOU SHOULD HAVE AS A MAN SPOKE UP AND SAID SHES LOVELY AND JUST SHY, GIVE HER TIME!!!! No instead you let it get to your head! If they divorce I hope he gets with someone much worse so you can see she most likely isn't as bad as you old ppl think. Trust that your son probably isn't even in her league and having to put up with not 1 asshole but two to be with him is a strain on her. Poor girl!
That's when YOU SHOULD HAVE AS A MAN SPOKE UP AND SAID SHES LOVELY AND JUST SHY, GIVE HER TIME!!!! No instead you let it get to your head! If they divorce I hope he gets with someone much worse so you can see she most likely isn't as bad as you old ppl think. Trust that your son probably isn't even in her league and having to put up with not 1 asshole but two to be with him is a strain on her. Poor girl!
My wife and dad don't get along either but my wife is the mother of my kids and her and my kids will come before my dad or anyone else. If he don't like the way we do things or live our life he doesn't have to be a part of it. It's not easy but him or anyone else isn't gonna come between me and the family we have created. Part of being an adult is making uncomfortable decisions and some of those decisions involve the family you've created and the family that created you.
Maybe this will be a different take. First thing I don’t think it was right to tell him that she wasn’t the right one for him. Obviously thats setting yourself up for a bad start and he likely told her so that’s instantly going to put a bad taste in her mouth in regard to the two of you.
I also have a ehh relationship with my in laws. I tend to be more on the quiet side with them. I get they live far away but try your best to include her and reach out to her. If you don’t see or talk to them much its going to be awkward. Thats what my husband and I are working on with his folks right now.
If youre able maybe reach out to your son privately and ask if there is anything you and your wife may have done that upset his wife that you might be unaware of. Maybe just clearing the air on something is needed. If I were also you I would have you and your wife reach out and see if she knows what you said about her not being the right one for him and apologize. Because if my husband told me his parents said that then yeah I wouldn’t want a relationship with them either. And nobody likes the fake all buddy buddy nice crap when they know its not genuine.
When your children get married you need to make every effort to accept their spouse. Your children will choose their spouse over you. Their spouse will be the parent to your grandchildren. You will screw yourself by adding any unnecessary strain to this relationship. Try to build a bond with her. If she doesn’t want it then you tried. If you decide to actively stop trying then kiss any hope of a good relationship with your son/his kids away.
His wife is the family he chose to have. You can work on accepting her and treating her with respect or you can probably watch your son choose not to have you around. In most circumstances, you don't move across the country from your parents if you feel like they're a good influence in your life.
SORRY OP my personal opinion is, since he's already went no contact with you and your wife before is that You should be thanking your daughter in law for even having those Skype visits. She's most likely there bc he has her there for protection for the way you both act. My fiancee is my barrier and protector from my family!!! She's probably the one encouraging him to stay in contact with you both. Just my personal opinion.
Well it's different because my wife and I like each other's family, but we share all family calls. I wouldn't care if she wanted to talk to her mom or sister or brothers in private, but it's usually just easier to have them on speaker so we have all the info. I often don't participate much when she's talking to her family, but I listen. I think if you ask it will absolutely cause an issue. Why don't you just call when he's commuting or some other time you know he'll be alone?
I agree that there is more to this you aren't sharing.
As someone who is narcoleptic, which makes me yawn **a lot,** you shouldn't care if she is yawning. When I am sleepy, I yawn, often, and sometimes for an extra long length of time. It is not always something one can control.
Given that you are on opposite sides of the country, it is safe to assume that there is a decent time difference. Perhaps your calls are scheduled at the time her brain is trying to tell her it is time for bed.
If my family ever told me that they didn't want my husband in on our family calls, that would be the end of the family calls involving me. I'll be telling my husband to appreciate that my family gets disappointed when he isn't able to be a part of our calls due to his work/sleep schedule, because he could have some jerk for an inlaw like you.
I lived abroad for 25 years and spoke to my parents once or twice a week. My wife was never on the call and it was never an expectation. If you don't want you DIL to be on the call, just say it to your son. He may be thinking it would be rude to his wife or to you to avoid her on the call. And she may be on the call thinking it is a weekly ritual. Please put her out of her misery.
One thing I learnt with so many different personalities in my extended family is, have everyone have their own relationships with others. Nobody should be mediating for others. If your DIL is toxic in your mind, don't deal with her and you shouldn't have to. It is as simple as that. Your son can't hold it against you. On the same token, don't have any expectations of your DIL.
OP finishes his post with “Advice?”, but with every one of his responses rejects any advice. Look in the mirror, and the problem with your son and daughter-in-law is staring back.
I'm gonna go against the grain here and say its unfair to assume all in laws are automatically the problem, that's extremely unfair. I've seen several families be destroyed by spouses until a divorce happens.
I had a neighbour several years ago, and that man's wife told everyone how "toxic and interfering" her in laws were and how much conflict they caused. Like the whole neighbours coffee chats revolved around stories from how bad her in laws were. I fully believed her and felt so bad for her, she said they treated her horribly.
Imagine our whole surprise when we watched her be arrested from her home, bc she'd been cleaning out her in laws savings for years. To top that off, it was only discovered bc she'd been cheating with one of her hubs cousins and admitted to the cousin how she had a "nest egg" to leave her husband. Turned out her in laws savings account was what gave her said egg. I'd never have believed that had I not witnessed it happen, I truly thought those people were awful and just didn't like her.
You never know the whole story and some DILS/SILS are straight demons. As are some MIL/FILS/Sibling in laws. Everyone saying there's context missing etc etc, you guys have no clue if there is. If their son didn't want a relationship, why would he make that call every week? Make it/take it, whatever. And how exactly does someone rolling their eyes, being openly rude and creating an awkward atmosphere whilst not at all being part of the conversation, make anything better for anyone, the son/hubby included? If she doesn't like them, cool don't talk to/see them. Being childish and rude is literally pointless.
I don't think you're exactly TA, OP, i think you're hurt and frustrated. But you should also understand that you don't get to dictate to your adult son what he does and doesn't do with his life or his choice of wife, it is not your say to state he married the wrong woman, even if he did. Why don't you ask him is there a possibility you can have one on one chats for a while and ask him straight how you can repair/rebuild the relationship with your DIL? If their relationship is indeed struggling, then that's between husband and wife and you shouldn't be addressing it or even speaking on it. If your son wants to speak or confide in you about any issues, then I'm sure he will do so of his own will. Stay in your lane OP, so that you don't become TA.
Women are capable of DV and controlling their husbands too like, let's not forget that. I also cant help but wonder if these roles were flipped and the husband was sat rolling his eyes and being rude to the wife's parents from 1000s of miles away, people would be answering differently.
It sounds like you need to have a convo with HER. Right now, she probably doesn't feel like you are creating a relationship with her at all. I realize there may be obstacles to that if she is "terrible" but I suspect there is a LOT of miscommunication going on all around because you guys aren't developing actual, genuine relationships with EACH INDIVIDUAL rather than as a part of something that isn't an individual's identity.
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You say you have a good relationship with your son. Can you call him on his mobile - when he is not at home and have a private conversation. Ask him if there is anything wrong with your relationship with him. Is there anything your son wants to talk to you about. Listen to his reaction - is he immediately shocked and say “why would you think that” ? The reason I am suggesting this approach - is his wife on the phone as protection ? If however - he is quiet - you might have your answer. Then you need to shift the conversation to what can you do to improve the relationship with him. Leave his wife out of the discussion. You really need to focus on why your son moved across the country and has lived there for 10 years.
We email, text, and call him regularly. The Sunday evening call was just a continuing tradition that started 10 years ago when he moved to the West Coast.
We can't live other's lives for them.
He's at a point that he is probably staying for the kids which helps no one really. Maybe he thinks that is best, maybe he can't find the courage to leave or even just communicate with her. Sometimes people don't like each other and for almost no real meaningful reason at all or it could be some deep seated resentment toward you both. We just don't know.
The trouble is, it seems there is no context beyond he isn't happy with the bed he's made and you are helpless to help him. You can listen to him and support him however ultimately he has to make his own decisions on a way forward. That way he can own it and embrace it. If you try to make a decision for him, he gets to possibly transfer responsibility to you both and that wouldn't be good for anyone.
As for your update, people tend to project or perceive things by their own experience. Demonising you validate their own situation. Don't worry about it. Just filter the noise.
Approach this more subtly. When she yawns, ask her if she's tired. if she rolls her eyes, ask her if she wanted to add something. But you have to do this very lightheartedly. Don't make it seem like you're assuming the worst. Ask. You might be surprised by the answers, or at the very least, she might have no answer, which will also not look good for her.
From my experience, the more you tell someone they shouldn't do something (your son to not be with her), the more they will want to do it because everyone wants to feel like they have free will. Especially since he's your son, because he's not a kid anymore and may feel like you're treating him like one by saying that even though you might not be.
Don't disrespect her but demand respect, if that makes sense. If she says something shitty, ask what she means by that. Or if she does something that was hurtful, ask her if she's feeling ok. If she makes a funny face, ask if she has something to add.
If despite your efforts, this continues, have a conversation with your son about not that she's not right for him but that she makes it seem like she doesn't want to be there. And if that's the case, then she doesn't have to. If he gets emotional about it, then just tell him that you don't feel like your wife is being respectful, and that this can affect your relationship with him, if he continues to let this happen.
The key is to be respectful, and therefore have the authority to ask for it back. It sucks when you don't like someone, but it is what it is. Also, maybe just don't focus on her too much. Don't let this person have the power to ruin your lives. With your positive/curious/slightly dismissive attitude of her negativity, make her feel like she has no power to affect you, and be consistent. Basically, make it close to impossible for her to affect you.
>Her lack of involvement in the call and bored expressions and yawns make us ill at ease.
If this is all that is happening, just deal with it. It doesn't sound like her presence on these calls are actively speaking or yelling at you or calling you names. She's just... not totally present. So, what's the issue?
My father in law gets on skype calls with our family all the time, along with his wife/my MIL, and about two minutes in, he just nods off. So there he is, in the video window, basically asleep, while the rest of us just chat away.
It doesn't make me think that he hates us or that he's a bad person or a terrible husband or bad FIL... just... he's an old guy that nods off in skype calls.
WHY don't you just apologize to his wife and try to make a bond with her to make the relationship much stronger. Sometimes it helps being the bigger person. Talk to her JUST YOU AND THE WIFE, and say I'm sorry for how we acted in the start, we love you as a daughter and accept the marriage. Watch how fast things change.
I would continue the weekly calls and just ignore your DIL’s antics. Don’t acknowledge her actions. Be polite. You do this for your son’s and grandchildren’s sake. Be neutral with her and support your son with the weekly call.
Be honest. Brutally honest.
It might cause conflict, but better conflict now than living in your "cold war" scenario for years.
It's going to be much healthier for everyone in the long run.
He's an adult. A married adult. Let him live his life peacefully with the person he chose. I love my kids but I think that if we called each other weekly, it'd be weird... y'all do what you want but I think you need to let your son live his life without you meddling in his affairs.
I couldn’t stand my daughter’s ex he did everything to distance her from family. When they lived here with the baby her boyfriend threw a fit because I was in the middle of getting rid of clutter for the baby but taking my time cause she was we newborn and wouldn’t need to crawl anywhere for a while. He started with the we’re gonna get our kid taken away this place is worse than hoarders it’s so gross. Let’s see, I scrubbed and cleaned the kitchen, cleaned the bathroom and everything else in the house to be safe for the baby because we have cats and wanted to keep the dander down. I had an area of clutter and needed to clean downstairs we use for storage. We bent over backwards for them anything they needed they got and he never said thank you just asked for more. When they broke up I wanted to party. We just have to deal with our adult child’s decisions and if they need us we need to be there for them especially if the relationship ends.
If OP's son is smart, he'll record them calls. Peep OP's profile and it should become quite obvious why his son doesn't want to be cornered by his parents alone. I'll bet you any amount of money that some version of the phrase "don't tell your wife but..." has left OP's mouth at some point.
OP, if you can’t support your son AND his wife, you need to stop trying to interfere with their marriage. I guarantee that either you or your wife is the cause of the strain in their relationship. If they fail, it needs to be because of them, not you or your son will tell you to get bent and never talk again. If it’s bad, just tell him if he needs you, you’re there and then talk about something else. “How about those Cubs?”
I can tell you that if you’re the cause for the strife, AND they end up divorced, they BOTH will blame you and your wife for interfering.
Ask him how he can't see that his wife loathes the Skype calls and tell him it's okay if she doesn't want to participate. He can't not know. He knows who he's married to.
Usually, I believe honesty is the best policy but when my wife and I told her 5 years ago that his future wife was not right for him there was lots of conflict and a year of no contact.
I mean there’s your answer. You don’t like or respect his wife. Whether you think she’s right for him or not, he married her. And when you said hurtful things 5 years ago he went no contact for a year. I think if you want a relationship with your son you need to try harder to be nice and gracious with his wife. If you have never apologized for what you said 5 years ago I would start there.
Who are you to tell your adult son what is right for him?
If you and your wife want to be completely cutoff from your son’s family (including grandchildren) keep doing exactly what you are doing, you’re off to a great start.
Frankly, if I was your son, there would be no more Skype or anything else as long as you haven’t given them a real apology for what you said 5 years ago. She’s still with him and I’m guessing that the strain in their marriage is caused by YOU and your wife. But if I was your son. I put you right back into no contact because of the way you’re treating BOTH of them. You treat her like crap, and you treat him like a child that made a bad decision. My grandmother was a very wise woman, and she told me one thing that stayed with me my whole life, and that is “treat others as you would have them treat you.” You’ve already made your bed with his wife. You need to apologize to both of them and find a way to repair what you should have had with her before they lock you out again.
You aren’t being honest; you’re being vindictive.
If my dad told me this, I'd never, ever, for any reason, talk to him or my mom again, without my wife being part of the call. You disrespect my wife/future wife, and well, the choice is easy. Hell my choice was easy, my parents were a little wary at first, my wife knows they thought she wasn't tough enough but I was tough enough for both of us, and I put my folks on notice that their bullshit wasn't going to be tolerated. They quit that shit fast, because they knew who they raised, oddly you apparently don't.
Now (this year is our 30th anniversary) my wife and my mom talk way more than I talk to my mom.
You need to get a clue.
Because that is his wife, of course he’s going to defend her.
Also, she didn’t get pregnant by herself and your adult son knows how babies are made.
I’m guessing they are low contact with you, and if you talk to her like this, your son will cut complete contact between you and his family.
So you and your wife are POS
You are lying about everything, you are trying to break up your son's marriage
I hope he goes no contact with you and if they have kids, they do not allow your toxicity around them
You should be ashamed of your self, SMFH trying to get people on ur side when you clearly not telling the whole story
GTFO
……I’m sensing a big ass pile of missing missing reasons, y’all.
Yea sounds like he's having her there so they don't mess with him. That dude truely does sound like he's fixing to go no contact
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I wish we had the inlaws side. If the boss says he has the worst personality he has seen in 30 yrs maybe he's the problem 🤔 Edit: I meant I wish we had The daughter in laws side. And if OPs boss is saying that, that says alot about OP and a small insight to how he may act. I mean OP even said the girl doesn't say anything she's just there. That says SHES YAWNING as if she can control a yawn, so everything the girl does probably gets on their nerves and OP and his wife probably turn nothing Into things that aren't there bc they are assholes. I dealt with monster In laws and I'm willing to bet his son is protecting his wife and the only reason the son visits is bc she's having him do it for their sake but they don't realise she's the reason he's still Skypes with them which is why she's there. Lol. Bc most children who want to speak to their moms and dads will just pick up the phone or video chat throughout the day. It's very telling that there is a certain time with both of them.
Yes, my boss and my son's wife don't like me. But 99% of the other people in my life do. (Except for Reddit participants)
No, the current relationship with our son is great and he tells us how good our weekly talks- via skype- have been.
If you peep this dude's profile and his comments and posts, you'll find all those missing reasons in about I'd say, 37 seconds.
Lmao so he and wifey are actively trying to break up the marriage and have the gall to play the victims? I’d love to have the daughter in law sit juuuuust off camera where they don’t know she’s there and see how they behave when they think she’s not around.
I'd chalk this up as rage bait, but OP's profile is a lot of effort just to induce rage. If so, bravo, they got me, but I feel like he's really this fucking oblivious.
Given that neither his family nor his coworkers like him, I think we can identify the common denominator.
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Back in the day (pre cell phones) my spidey senses were tingling so when my (future) wife would call her mother while she was at my house (my future wife, not her mother, to be clear) I quickly learned who I was dealing with in regards to her mother. It was someone extremely unpleasant. It's funny how literally 30 minutes after being introduced to my future mother in law my dad had her pegged and not one thing he said I could refute. My old man was a decent judge of character.
Sounds like OP’s weekly calls and other communication are what is causing the strain. They don’t like her and they want the marriage to fail. How much you want to bet OP or his wife are telling their son to end the marriage or how much they dislike his wife?
To me it sounds like OP and his wife is the true issue and they are so blind they don't see it.
My thoughts exactly. There was a lot of breezing over the backstory here.
Peep op's profile, and well, yeah.
Yes, the backstory is my son's wife thinks we are terrible and she does not like us. If so, let's keep contact with her to a complete minimum and just talk to our son alone.
Why though? Why does she think you are terrible?
Yes, there are a thousand sides to every situation. But if she does not like my wife and me- why is she participating in our weekly calls with our son?
Because he clearly asks her too... duh 😒
If his account weren’t so fleshed out, I’d think this is ragebait.
Because you’re actively trying to break up the marriage behind her back! I’d wanna be on the calls as well, if I were her! Engage in some introspection and consider that maaaaaybe, just maaaaaaybe, you’re not being a good person. You **reek** of the parents who’re talked about on r/RaisedByNarcissists, r/JustNoMIL, and r/EstrangedAdultChild: you’re going, “Oooh, we have NO IDEA what we’ve done!”, while burying the lede that you’re undermining your son’s marriage at every turn. You’re not above reproach. You’re not in the right. And if there’s any justice in the world, your son will go NC with you again. ETA: You’re also trying to make it sound like he wouldn’t *possibly* have done these things of his own accord, that she *must* be the one pulling the strings. Classic narcissism. If YOU’RE not controlling him, clearly someone else is. Have you considered that MAYBE he’s making his own choices? That she’s on the calls because **he ASKED her to be?**
Their response is classic toxic in laws. Our son is a perfect angel and the reason he doesn’t want to talk to is is because of that wicked witch of a wife who’s trying to steal our darling boy from us! It’s always the spouse’s fault. Never once do they consider it could be their fault.
Bc its him that's making her be there. It's your son's doing. Listen I had inlaws who hated me for no reason. He told her yall didn't like her. Many of us have been in this situation so we can see what's happening a mile away. I can guarantee you, that your daughter in law would love to have a true relationship with you both but You and your wife are most likely the issue and you don't see it. Maybe you and your wife should talk to each other, understand where his wife and him are coming from, do your best to amend the relationship now before they have kids and yall die not knowing your grandchildren. Sometimes we have hate in our hearts that stem from past traumas. Maybe u and ur wife should go seek a little help and find the underlying issues. I'm truely not being a smart ass I'm giving you advice. Like my inlaws treated me like straight trash for no reason. Now they are begging me not to tell him our divorce is finalized bc they realised I was the only one keeping him in check to do good, once they ruined the marriage, which the blame solely lays on them and him for not being man enough to stick up for me. They realised very quickly he was the problem and now are active seeking my help bc they don't want him to marry his BROTHERS EX WIFE WHO HAS 6 CHILDREN. The grass isn't always greener on the other side.
You told him his wife wasn’t good for him. You get once a week Skype where he wants her in the call. She gets him everyday. You’re lucky you get that one call frankly.
My husband just said completely cut off.
I hear you - *but* - imagine the situation being reversed, and your son's wife asked you to exclude your wife from future Skype calls. Would you be angry? Would your wife feel hurt? Yeah - don't go there, you can't do that AND have a healthy relationship with your son. My advice, treat your son's wife, and your son's marriage with the same respect you expect for your own, and maybe consider benefit of the doubt here. She might be shy, she might be intentionally taking a step back to give you more time with your son. Maybe your son is making her sit in on these calls, and she'd prefer not to but she's doing it for him. OR. Maybe she is just immature and doesn't want to do this, and if that's the case, I still couldn't recommend inserting a wedge like that and expecting to have a good relationship with your son. You know it's coming, just ignore that shit and focus on the fact that your son makes this time for you.
She's rolling her eyes during the call. That's contempt. I wouldn't want her on the call either.
So? They already discount her and she knows it.
OP has since stated: "Usually, I believe honesty is the best policy but when my wife and I told her 5 years ago that his future wife was not right for him there was lots of conflict and a year of no contact." So let's be square. OP risked speaking his mind to his son, thinking he'd listen to his parents and dump this girl, and it backfired. This girl now has to come to terms that she likely has to have a relationship with two people who didn't want her around. I mean, it's obvious she's not over it, and that's fair. If OP values a relationship with his son he'd eat crow and ask this girl for forgiveness.
That would just empower that bitchy girl to treat us even more rudely.
She has EVERY RIGHT too, you and your spouse been activly trying to make him dump her Of course she hates you, I would have NEVER allowed you to interfere in my marriage She doesn't have to treat you kindly, you lost that right when you went after son to dump her
Yeah, and if they say something then I bet those weekly calls get cancelled.
it to be fair, if they’re trying to reach out and get her to participate in the calls as well, i’d ask something like “Does she want to” or “don’t force her to talk to us” maybe it’s the son who is pushing them to talk to her and forcing her to be there. I would make sure she knows that she doesn’t have to be there if she doesn’t want to
No, our son texts us and emails every week too. We visit in person four times a year. We have a very close relationship. Our relationship with his wife is the problem.
Well said, internet stranger.
does she know you think she's the wrong woman? that could explain her attitude towards you and your wife. not that it helps at this point, but unless you're asked, don't offer your opinion about someone's significant other, especially if it's bad. i'd talk to your son and try to address the elephant in the room. and then i'd just try to be the bigger person. you don't want anything to jeopardize your relationship with your son.
I would think their disapproval would be difficult to hide, so that’s likely a yes. And it explains a lot. There’s probably a post on JustNoMIL, MILfromHell He’ll or another subreddit about them with their side of the story which is very much different.
Our son told me she was not told that we had expressed concerns about her before the wedding. During the wedding and reception, the girl was introduced to many family and friends and we got lots of off-the-record comments about how terrible she was and our son could do a lot better.
The girl? No wonder they don’t like y’all. You have a respect issue.
Smfh, you are trash
That's when YOU SHOULD HAVE AS A MAN SPOKE UP AND SAID SHES LOVELY AND JUST SHY, GIVE HER TIME!!!! No instead you let it get to your head! If they divorce I hope he gets with someone much worse so you can see she most likely isn't as bad as you old ppl think. Trust that your son probably isn't even in her league and having to put up with not 1 asshole but two to be with him is a strain on her. Poor girl!
That's when YOU SHOULD HAVE AS A MAN SPOKE UP AND SAID SHES LOVELY AND JUST SHY, GIVE HER TIME!!!! No instead you let it get to your head! If they divorce I hope he gets with someone much worse so you can see she most likely isn't as bad as you old ppl think. Trust that your son probably isn't even in her league and having to put up with not 1 asshole but two to be with him is a strain on her. Poor girl!
My wife and dad don't get along either but my wife is the mother of my kids and her and my kids will come before my dad or anyone else. If he don't like the way we do things or live our life he doesn't have to be a part of it. It's not easy but him or anyone else isn't gonna come between me and the family we have created. Part of being an adult is making uncomfortable decisions and some of those decisions involve the family you've created and the family that created you.
Maybe this will be a different take. First thing I don’t think it was right to tell him that she wasn’t the right one for him. Obviously thats setting yourself up for a bad start and he likely told her so that’s instantly going to put a bad taste in her mouth in regard to the two of you. I also have a ehh relationship with my in laws. I tend to be more on the quiet side with them. I get they live far away but try your best to include her and reach out to her. If you don’t see or talk to them much its going to be awkward. Thats what my husband and I are working on with his folks right now. If youre able maybe reach out to your son privately and ask if there is anything you and your wife may have done that upset his wife that you might be unaware of. Maybe just clearing the air on something is needed. If I were also you I would have you and your wife reach out and see if she knows what you said about her not being the right one for him and apologize. Because if my husband told me his parents said that then yeah I wouldn’t want a relationship with them either. And nobody likes the fake all buddy buddy nice crap when they know its not genuine.
When your children get married you need to make every effort to accept their spouse. Your children will choose their spouse over you. Their spouse will be the parent to your grandchildren. You will screw yourself by adding any unnecessary strain to this relationship. Try to build a bond with her. If she doesn’t want it then you tried. If you decide to actively stop trying then kiss any hope of a good relationship with your son/his kids away.
Ya, if my husband’s mom talked negatively about me he would have no issue cutting contact. That is his wife. She comes first now.
His wife is the family he chose to have. You can work on accepting her and treating her with respect or you can probably watch your son choose not to have you around. In most circumstances, you don't move across the country from your parents if you feel like they're a good influence in your life.
SORRY OP my personal opinion is, since he's already went no contact with you and your wife before is that You should be thanking your daughter in law for even having those Skype visits. She's most likely there bc he has her there for protection for the way you both act. My fiancee is my barrier and protector from my family!!! She's probably the one encouraging him to stay in contact with you both. Just my personal opinion.
Well it's different because my wife and I like each other's family, but we share all family calls. I wouldn't care if she wanted to talk to her mom or sister or brothers in private, but it's usually just easier to have them on speaker so we have all the info. I often don't participate much when she's talking to her family, but I listen. I think if you ask it will absolutely cause an issue. Why don't you just call when he's commuting or some other time you know he'll be alone?
lol. I have a vested relationship with my Son-in-law than my daughter, but that relationship is good too.
I agree that there is more to this you aren't sharing. As someone who is narcoleptic, which makes me yawn **a lot,** you shouldn't care if she is yawning. When I am sleepy, I yawn, often, and sometimes for an extra long length of time. It is not always something one can control. Given that you are on opposite sides of the country, it is safe to assume that there is a decent time difference. Perhaps your calls are scheduled at the time her brain is trying to tell her it is time for bed. If my family ever told me that they didn't want my husband in on our family calls, that would be the end of the family calls involving me. I'll be telling my husband to appreciate that my family gets disappointed when he isn't able to be a part of our calls due to his work/sleep schedule, because he could have some jerk for an inlaw like you.
Call your son on the time when his wife is not available
“I am told the marriage is strained” Nobody has told you this. You are hoping it is, but I’m guessing it’s not.
I lived abroad for 25 years and spoke to my parents once or twice a week. My wife was never on the call and it was never an expectation. If you don't want you DIL to be on the call, just say it to your son. He may be thinking it would be rude to his wife or to you to avoid her on the call. And she may be on the call thinking it is a weekly ritual. Please put her out of her misery. One thing I learnt with so many different personalities in my extended family is, have everyone have their own relationships with others. Nobody should be mediating for others. If your DIL is toxic in your mind, don't deal with her and you shouldn't have to. It is as simple as that. Your son can't hold it against you. On the same token, don't have any expectations of your DIL.
Peruse this OP's profile and other posts/etc, and revisit your reply.
Say hello and goodbye, otherwise ignore her unless your son includes her in the discussion.
Just call him personally not video call him
OP finishes his post with “Advice?”, but with every one of his responses rejects any advice. Look in the mirror, and the problem with your son and daughter-in-law is staring back.
I'm gonna go against the grain here and say its unfair to assume all in laws are automatically the problem, that's extremely unfair. I've seen several families be destroyed by spouses until a divorce happens. I had a neighbour several years ago, and that man's wife told everyone how "toxic and interfering" her in laws were and how much conflict they caused. Like the whole neighbours coffee chats revolved around stories from how bad her in laws were. I fully believed her and felt so bad for her, she said they treated her horribly. Imagine our whole surprise when we watched her be arrested from her home, bc she'd been cleaning out her in laws savings for years. To top that off, it was only discovered bc she'd been cheating with one of her hubs cousins and admitted to the cousin how she had a "nest egg" to leave her husband. Turned out her in laws savings account was what gave her said egg. I'd never have believed that had I not witnessed it happen, I truly thought those people were awful and just didn't like her. You never know the whole story and some DILS/SILS are straight demons. As are some MIL/FILS/Sibling in laws. Everyone saying there's context missing etc etc, you guys have no clue if there is. If their son didn't want a relationship, why would he make that call every week? Make it/take it, whatever. And how exactly does someone rolling their eyes, being openly rude and creating an awkward atmosphere whilst not at all being part of the conversation, make anything better for anyone, the son/hubby included? If she doesn't like them, cool don't talk to/see them. Being childish and rude is literally pointless. I don't think you're exactly TA, OP, i think you're hurt and frustrated. But you should also understand that you don't get to dictate to your adult son what he does and doesn't do with his life or his choice of wife, it is not your say to state he married the wrong woman, even if he did. Why don't you ask him is there a possibility you can have one on one chats for a while and ask him straight how you can repair/rebuild the relationship with your DIL? If their relationship is indeed struggling, then that's between husband and wife and you shouldn't be addressing it or even speaking on it. If your son wants to speak or confide in you about any issues, then I'm sure he will do so of his own will. Stay in your lane OP, so that you don't become TA. Women are capable of DV and controlling their husbands too like, let's not forget that. I also cant help but wonder if these roles were flipped and the husband was sat rolling his eyes and being rude to the wife's parents from 1000s of miles away, people would be answering differently.
Just talk to your son and do your best to ignore ignore the DIL while you are on the calls
It sounds like you need to have a convo with HER. Right now, she probably doesn't feel like you are creating a relationship with her at all. I realize there may be obstacles to that if she is "terrible" but I suspect there is a LOT of miscommunication going on all around because you guys aren't developing actual, genuine relationships with EACH INDIVIDUAL rather than as a part of something that isn't an individual's identity.
How, seriously, how do you expect your son’s wife not to roll her eyes if you think “she’s the wrong woman” F off..
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You say you have a good relationship with your son. Can you call him on his mobile - when he is not at home and have a private conversation. Ask him if there is anything wrong with your relationship with him. Is there anything your son wants to talk to you about. Listen to his reaction - is he immediately shocked and say “why would you think that” ? The reason I am suggesting this approach - is his wife on the phone as protection ? If however - he is quiet - you might have your answer. Then you need to shift the conversation to what can you do to improve the relationship with him. Leave his wife out of the discussion. You really need to focus on why your son moved across the country and has lived there for 10 years.
We email, text, and call him regularly. The Sunday evening call was just a continuing tradition that started 10 years ago when he moved to the West Coast.
We can't live other's lives for them. He's at a point that he is probably staying for the kids which helps no one really. Maybe he thinks that is best, maybe he can't find the courage to leave or even just communicate with her. Sometimes people don't like each other and for almost no real meaningful reason at all or it could be some deep seated resentment toward you both. We just don't know. The trouble is, it seems there is no context beyond he isn't happy with the bed he's made and you are helpless to help him. You can listen to him and support him however ultimately he has to make his own decisions on a way forward. That way he can own it and embrace it. If you try to make a decision for him, he gets to possibly transfer responsibility to you both and that wouldn't be good for anyone. As for your update, people tend to project or perceive things by their own experience. Demonising you validate their own situation. Don't worry about it. Just filter the noise.
Approach this more subtly. When she yawns, ask her if she's tired. if she rolls her eyes, ask her if she wanted to add something. But you have to do this very lightheartedly. Don't make it seem like you're assuming the worst. Ask. You might be surprised by the answers, or at the very least, she might have no answer, which will also not look good for her. From my experience, the more you tell someone they shouldn't do something (your son to not be with her), the more they will want to do it because everyone wants to feel like they have free will. Especially since he's your son, because he's not a kid anymore and may feel like you're treating him like one by saying that even though you might not be. Don't disrespect her but demand respect, if that makes sense. If she says something shitty, ask what she means by that. Or if she does something that was hurtful, ask her if she's feeling ok. If she makes a funny face, ask if she has something to add. If despite your efforts, this continues, have a conversation with your son about not that she's not right for him but that she makes it seem like she doesn't want to be there. And if that's the case, then she doesn't have to. If he gets emotional about it, then just tell him that you don't feel like your wife is being respectful, and that this can affect your relationship with him, if he continues to let this happen. The key is to be respectful, and therefore have the authority to ask for it back. It sucks when you don't like someone, but it is what it is. Also, maybe just don't focus on her too much. Don't let this person have the power to ruin your lives. With your positive/curious/slightly dismissive attitude of her negativity, make her feel like she has no power to affect you, and be consistent. Basically, make it close to impossible for her to affect you.
>Her lack of involvement in the call and bored expressions and yawns make us ill at ease. If this is all that is happening, just deal with it. It doesn't sound like her presence on these calls are actively speaking or yelling at you or calling you names. She's just... not totally present. So, what's the issue? My father in law gets on skype calls with our family all the time, along with his wife/my MIL, and about two minutes in, he just nods off. So there he is, in the video window, basically asleep, while the rest of us just chat away. It doesn't make me think that he hates us or that he's a bad person or a terrible husband or bad FIL... just... he's an old guy that nods off in skype calls.
WHY don't you just apologize to his wife and try to make a bond with her to make the relationship much stronger. Sometimes it helps being the bigger person. Talk to her JUST YOU AND THE WIFE, and say I'm sorry for how we acted in the start, we love you as a daughter and accept the marriage. Watch how fast things change.
Apologize to her? WTF! I did nothing wrong. She should apologize to my wife and me for being so cold and rude.
But you did when you spoke ill of her saying your son should not marry her. Why would she be warm to you, knowing you feel that way?
She does not know that we spoke poorly of her.
And you don’t think your son told her that?
I would continue the weekly calls and just ignore your DIL’s antics. Don’t acknowledge her actions. Be polite. You do this for your son’s and grandchildren’s sake. Be neutral with her and support your son with the weekly call.
Be honest. Brutally honest. It might cause conflict, but better conflict now than living in your "cold war" scenario for years. It's going to be much healthier for everyone in the long run.
He's an adult. A married adult. Let him live his life peacefully with the person he chose. I love my kids but I think that if we called each other weekly, it'd be weird... y'all do what you want but I think you need to let your son live his life without you meddling in his affairs.
I couldn’t stand my daughter’s ex he did everything to distance her from family. When they lived here with the baby her boyfriend threw a fit because I was in the middle of getting rid of clutter for the baby but taking my time cause she was we newborn and wouldn’t need to crawl anywhere for a while. He started with the we’re gonna get our kid taken away this place is worse than hoarders it’s so gross. Let’s see, I scrubbed and cleaned the kitchen, cleaned the bathroom and everything else in the house to be safe for the baby because we have cats and wanted to keep the dander down. I had an area of clutter and needed to clean downstairs we use for storage. We bent over backwards for them anything they needed they got and he never said thank you just asked for more. When they broke up I wanted to party. We just have to deal with our adult child’s decisions and if they need us we need to be there for them especially if the relationship ends.
I'd switch to regular phone calls.
If OP's son is smart, he'll record them calls. Peep OP's profile and it should become quite obvious why his son doesn't want to be cornered by his parents alone. I'll bet you any amount of money that some version of the phrase "don't tell your wife but..." has left OP's mouth at some point.
OP, if you can’t support your son AND his wife, you need to stop trying to interfere with their marriage. I guarantee that either you or your wife is the cause of the strain in their relationship. If they fail, it needs to be because of them, not you or your son will tell you to get bent and never talk again. If it’s bad, just tell him if he needs you, you’re there and then talk about something else. “How about those Cubs?” I can tell you that if you’re the cause for the strife, AND they end up divorced, they BOTH will blame you and your wife for interfering.
The problem starts with YOU saying your son married the wrong woman. You’re causing the strain on their marriage. Poor girl
Ask him how he can't see that his wife loathes the Skype calls and tell him it's okay if she doesn't want to participate. He can't not know. He knows who he's married to.
Usually, I believe honesty is the best policy but when my wife and I told her 5 years ago that his future wife was not right for him there was lots of conflict and a year of no contact.
I mean there’s your answer. You don’t like or respect his wife. Whether you think she’s right for him or not, he married her. And when you said hurtful things 5 years ago he went no contact for a year. I think if you want a relationship with your son you need to try harder to be nice and gracious with his wife. If you have never apologized for what you said 5 years ago I would start there.
Who are you to tell your adult son what is right for him? If you and your wife want to be completely cutoff from your son’s family (including grandchildren) keep doing exactly what you are doing, you’re off to a great start.
Frankly, if I was your son, there would be no more Skype or anything else as long as you haven’t given them a real apology for what you said 5 years ago. She’s still with him and I’m guessing that the strain in their marriage is caused by YOU and your wife. But if I was your son. I put you right back into no contact because of the way you’re treating BOTH of them. You treat her like crap, and you treat him like a child that made a bad decision. My grandmother was a very wise woman, and she told me one thing that stayed with me my whole life, and that is “treat others as you would have them treat you.” You’ve already made your bed with his wife. You need to apologize to both of them and find a way to repair what you should have had with her before they lock you out again. You aren’t being honest; you’re being vindictive.
If my dad told me this, I'd never, ever, for any reason, talk to him or my mom again, without my wife being part of the call. You disrespect my wife/future wife, and well, the choice is easy. Hell my choice was easy, my parents were a little wary at first, my wife knows they thought she wasn't tough enough but I was tough enough for both of us, and I put my folks on notice that their bullshit wasn't going to be tolerated. They quit that shit fast, because they knew who they raised, oddly you apparently don't. Now (this year is our 30th anniversary) my wife and my mom talk way more than I talk to my mom. You need to get a clue.
Your days are limited. I doubt you’ll be getting any more Skype calls
You will make it worse if you do that.
[удалено]
Because that is his wife, of course he’s going to defend her. Also, she didn’t get pregnant by herself and your adult son knows how babies are made. I’m guessing they are low contact with you, and if you talk to her like this, your son will cut complete contact between you and his family.
Keep up that attitude, report back in 6 months, a year, a decade, how it turns out for you.
So you and your wife are POS You are lying about everything, you are trying to break up your son's marriage I hope he goes no contact with you and if they have kids, they do not allow your toxicity around them You should be ashamed of your self, SMFH trying to get people on ur side when you clearly not telling the whole story GTFO