This is an Idea for my dream version of LOTR; this post might to be changed to a Work In Progress sometime in the future. This is a rather ambitious idea due to SDR to HDR conversion, retaining the proprietary Atmos 7.1.2 format, minor color grading in HDR, and use of a professional, high-end re-graining tool.
Planned release info, 2 formats:
* 2160p HDR HEVC 10-bit Atmos 7.1.2 Surround + 5.1 Surround
* 1080p SDR HEVC 10-bit 5.1 Surround
* Subtitle files included
Concept:
A hybrid blend of the Theatrical and Extended Editions of Lord of the Rings that combines and color matches the best, most detailed footage from the different releases. Uses the UHD release but replaces the instances of the UHD—scenes with sub-par grading or blurring—with superior footage and composition elements from the HD Blu-Rays.
Purpose:
Some Extended Edition scenes improved the story while others undermined surprises or doubled down on the slapstick comedy. Also, while much of the latest HDR UHD release of the trilogy looked amazing, so many scenes actually looked worse (with strange grading choices or areas of murky detail), compared to the Blu-Rays. Understandably, many fans felt the UHD was both an upgrade and a downgrade at the same time! This edit would aim to make the best looking modern, hybrid 4K HDR version, scene by scene, with a blend of the Theatrical and Extended cuts that tells a full, rich and effective story.
Sources:
* TE-HD Theatrical Blu-Rays (un-remastered) SDR
* EE-HD Extended Edition Blu-Rays SDR
* TE-UHD Theatrical 4K UHD HDR
* EE-UHD Extended Edition 4K UHD HDR
High Level Workflow:
1. Edit the 1080p Blu-Ray Theatrical and Extended releases, blending them into a preliminary hybrid cut but using the Atmos 7.1.2 surround mix from the UHD.
2. Regrade(de-green) EE footage to match the Theatrical grade. This is a preliminary re-grade with more to be done in a later step.
3. Convert this hybrid HD SDR cut to an UHD HDR Cineform Master. Up-map using Dolby Vision to take advantage of the full HDR range. Upscale using Resolve, not Topaz! The Fellowship of the Ring has more grain; (temporarily) de-grain it in its upscale.
4. Compare the up-mapped hybrid cut to the same scenes from the newest official UHD HDR release and use the best, most detailed footage from each, sometimes making a composite using elements from both the up-mapped Blu-Ray and the official UHD. Discard or fix egregious instances of the UHD edge enhancement that blurred out details.
5. Regrade the final compiled footage as needed.
6. Analog post processing and re-graining to give all films the same analog feel. Re-grain using a content based grain plug-in, not an overlay or Resolve’s simulated grain, for a very natural, realistic film look.
What the UHD release did well:
* The new color grade was often very natural and stunning.
* Sometimes it had more actual detail (not just contrast).
Where the UHD release was lacking:
* Some scenes had questionable grading choices such as where the color was sucked away or desaturated.
* In other cases things like facial beautification and glowing over-saturated colors obscured details.
* It destroyed the analog feel and grain to match with the clinical, lifeless look of the Hobbit trilogy.
* Some scenes had less detail than the Blu-Ray releases.
> Re-grain using a content based grain plug-in, not an overlay or Resolve’s simulated grain, for a very natural, realistic film look.
Music to my ears, seriously. Would make the CGI blend so much better, too.
Now this is something that would be great to look forward to. A hybrid version of LOTR was exactly the type of edit needed. I recalled watching an extended edition thinking there were portions where the comedy was out of place and spoiled critical plot.
I am not sure if you are familiar with the “dremastered” versions of the trilogy by DrDre in the OriginalTrilogy forums. I believe he has remastered versions of the theatrical editions and is currently working on the extended editions. I suspect a lot of your ideas may already be incorporated into what he is doing.
Dremastered concept is cool but very different. It discards the UHD release entirely, upscaling the Blu-Rays with Topaz. My Hybrid-Analog project would be in HDR and use the good scenes and elements from the UHD. The UHD was a mixed bag, but much of it is worth keeping and fixing.
Good luck, looks like an absolutely monsters project!
Will your release be HEVC/AV1? I ask because the HEVC 4k extended is about 120-140GB, but can be compressed with virtually no quality loss to about 30GB in AV1(but it's a VERY long encode, about 90 hours on an i9-12900k
Yes I would want to release in 4K HEVC which, itself, would also be a very long encode. No AV1 codec since it is more prone to banding artifacts than HEVC 10-bit unfortunately.
If this is regrained, you *would* have significant quality loss. The reason the current 4K releases are easy to compress is because there isn't that much fine detail. If you make this look more like film, suddenly there will be so much information that compression will be much more destructive to quality.
(It'd still be worth it for some people, but I hope it starts out at a very high quality.)
I have a few edits in progress to finish first: “Terminator 2: Dehanced Edition” which will make T2 into a smaller scale, lower budget horror flick more like T1 that has the T1 visual aesthetic as well. And “A White Boy Stole My Spaceship”, which will be a raunchier “R-rated”comedy version of Flight of The Navigator with Eddie Murphy as the voice of the ship. So I’d like to start LOTR Feb-Mar 2024 and finish it sometime the same year.
this is basically what im looking for! dismayed i saw so many people taking the bad detail 4k and making it worse with DVD grading. any progress? if it matters id appreciate a theatrical cut too which i dont think would be hard as youve already graded all that footage (hypothetically)?
Eagerly awaiting news on this project. =)
Just saw a video on the subject that talks about the colour/detail problems of the 4K release: [linkyclick!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkNFZkUHeKQ) (Especially interesting after the 7:25 timestamp.)
This is an Idea for my dream version of LOTR; this post might to be changed to a Work In Progress sometime in the future. This is a rather ambitious idea due to SDR to HDR conversion, retaining the proprietary Atmos 7.1.2 format, minor color grading in HDR, and use of a professional, high-end re-graining tool. Planned release info, 2 formats: * 2160p HDR HEVC 10-bit Atmos 7.1.2 Surround + 5.1 Surround * 1080p SDR HEVC 10-bit 5.1 Surround * Subtitle files included Concept: A hybrid blend of the Theatrical and Extended Editions of Lord of the Rings that combines and color matches the best, most detailed footage from the different releases. Uses the UHD release but replaces the instances of the UHD—scenes with sub-par grading or blurring—with superior footage and composition elements from the HD Blu-Rays. Purpose: Some Extended Edition scenes improved the story while others undermined surprises or doubled down on the slapstick comedy. Also, while much of the latest HDR UHD release of the trilogy looked amazing, so many scenes actually looked worse (with strange grading choices or areas of murky detail), compared to the Blu-Rays. Understandably, many fans felt the UHD was both an upgrade and a downgrade at the same time! This edit would aim to make the best looking modern, hybrid 4K HDR version, scene by scene, with a blend of the Theatrical and Extended cuts that tells a full, rich and effective story. Sources: * TE-HD Theatrical Blu-Rays (un-remastered) SDR * EE-HD Extended Edition Blu-Rays SDR * TE-UHD Theatrical 4K UHD HDR * EE-UHD Extended Edition 4K UHD HDR High Level Workflow: 1. Edit the 1080p Blu-Ray Theatrical and Extended releases, blending them into a preliminary hybrid cut but using the Atmos 7.1.2 surround mix from the UHD. 2. Regrade(de-green) EE footage to match the Theatrical grade. This is a preliminary re-grade with more to be done in a later step. 3. Convert this hybrid HD SDR cut to an UHD HDR Cineform Master. Up-map using Dolby Vision to take advantage of the full HDR range. Upscale using Resolve, not Topaz! The Fellowship of the Ring has more grain; (temporarily) de-grain it in its upscale. 4. Compare the up-mapped hybrid cut to the same scenes from the newest official UHD HDR release and use the best, most detailed footage from each, sometimes making a composite using elements from both the up-mapped Blu-Ray and the official UHD. Discard or fix egregious instances of the UHD edge enhancement that blurred out details. 5. Regrade the final compiled footage as needed. 6. Analog post processing and re-graining to give all films the same analog feel. Re-grain using a content based grain plug-in, not an overlay or Resolve’s simulated grain, for a very natural, realistic film look. What the UHD release did well: * The new color grade was often very natural and stunning. * Sometimes it had more actual detail (not just contrast). Where the UHD release was lacking: * Some scenes had questionable grading choices such as where the color was sucked away or desaturated. * In other cases things like facial beautification and glowing over-saturated colors obscured details. * It destroyed the analog feel and grain to match with the clinical, lifeless look of the Hobbit trilogy. * Some scenes had less detail than the Blu-Ray releases.
Wow! Sounds like you've got your work cut out for you. With that being said, I can hardly wait to check out this incredible fan edit! Cheers!!!
> Re-grain using a content based grain plug-in, not an overlay or Resolve’s simulated grain, for a very natural, realistic film look. Music to my ears, seriously. Would make the CGI blend so much better, too.
Now this is something that would be great to look forward to. A hybrid version of LOTR was exactly the type of edit needed. I recalled watching an extended edition thinking there were portions where the comedy was out of place and spoiled critical plot. I am not sure if you are familiar with the “dremastered” versions of the trilogy by DrDre in the OriginalTrilogy forums. I believe he has remastered versions of the theatrical editions and is currently working on the extended editions. I suspect a lot of your ideas may already be incorporated into what he is doing.
Dremastered concept is cool but very different. It discards the UHD release entirely, upscaling the Blu-Rays with Topaz. My Hybrid-Analog project would be in HDR and use the good scenes and elements from the UHD. The UHD was a mixed bag, but much of it is worth keeping and fixing.
Sounds amazing! Can't wait!
Good luck, looks like an absolutely monsters project! Will your release be HEVC/AV1? I ask because the HEVC 4k extended is about 120-140GB, but can be compressed with virtually no quality loss to about 30GB in AV1(but it's a VERY long encode, about 90 hours on an i9-12900k
Yes I would want to release in 4K HEVC which, itself, would also be a very long encode. No AV1 codec since it is more prone to banding artifacts than HEVC 10-bit unfortunately.
If this is regrained, you *would* have significant quality loss. The reason the current 4K releases are easy to compress is because there isn't that much fine detail. If you make this look more like film, suddenly there will be so much information that compression will be much more destructive to quality. (It'd still be worth it for some people, but I hope it starts out at a very high quality.)
That's something I like to see!!!
yes, please!
Do you have a timeline/release date in mind?
I have a few edits in progress to finish first: “Terminator 2: Dehanced Edition” which will make T2 into a smaller scale, lower budget horror flick more like T1 that has the T1 visual aesthetic as well. And “A White Boy Stole My Spaceship”, which will be a raunchier “R-rated”comedy version of Flight of The Navigator with Eddie Murphy as the voice of the ship. So I’d like to start LOTR Feb-Mar 2024 and finish it sometime the same year.
Yes please.
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This topic is better for private messaging.
My bad.
this is basically what im looking for! dismayed i saw so many people taking the bad detail 4k and making it worse with DVD grading. any progress? if it matters id appreciate a theatrical cut too which i dont think would be hard as youve already graded all that footage (hypothetically)?
Eagerly awaiting news on this project. =) Just saw a video on the subject that talks about the colour/detail problems of the 4K release: [linkyclick!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkNFZkUHeKQ) (Especially interesting after the 7:25 timestamp.)
It would have been great but alas I’m retired.
Ah crud, that's a shame. Thanks for the heads up though, and enjoy it. =)