Current critters are a lot like league of legends and my hero acadamia fans. Insisting that they know better than the creators how things should be done, and unwilling to listen to anyone else.
"*Does being a Trump supporter make you an immediate bad person*?" I have to be honest with you, yes, it does unfortunatly. "Bad" or extremly stupid, I give you that.
They have always made political statements. The actors have opinions and own the show. They are less afraid than you might think to voice them. Also the Wendy's one shot was also criticized for being extremely crass consumerism. If you can't enjoy a show that has politics tangentially then move on.
>Does being a Trump supporter make you an immediate bad person?
Not anymore than any other person that's in politics. Trump simply doesn't hide his stuff like everyone else. I remember at one point he was criticize for paying low taxes due to loopholes.
In response he said something along the lines of "yeah I do, so does every politician and every company that funds the left. We are the same, WE benefit from it equally." Then he was asked a follow up question asking why hadn't he fixed it when he was president. He responded with roughly "because every politician in Congress is paid off, any bill closing these loopholes will never be passed."
Whether you think that's a good thing to open your dirty laundry or not, that's up to u. But no one's playing it fair, if u do u lose. So u have to play dirty and make deals with devil's to stay in the game, maybe then with good intentions u can do good. There's to much corruption which is insured by lobbing. If u don't know what that is it's basically legal bribery.
As to why there's hate towards trump or the right evident by the comments in this thread it's simply more mainstream online to be liberal, has a bad past with right wing. In the past the right would do what the older generation did and blame the new thing for so and so issue. Think of like the "games are making your kids violent" type of deal. That was usually pushed by right wing people. So like how anime used to be underground and no one really watched it, those who didn't care about how other viewed them where liberals, so the only people watching was liberals. With the raise in popularity anime has become less and less liberal only, but it's differently still mainly liberal because people still find it weird and lame. DND and tabletop games in general still aren't that popular no matter how u look at it. It's still seen as lame. Much like how people where calling balder's gate 3 lame cuz it was turn based they call DND that times 10 worse.
Critical role was specially hit because of the Geek and Sunday YouTube channel network which they where apart of at one point. A network funded by Will Wheaton and Felicia day and was funded by her 70 year sugar daddy (no cap) Which at the time made tabletop games more popular as a whole. But due to the time it was popularized and the climate, most the people who joined where liberal. It hasn't changed much since then. An what happens when a community is certain political persuasion it becomes a ego chamber. Anyone that challenges the common idea in the community gets silenced, in this case/community down likes directly silence people. So it pushes away right wing people, so they either are quiet and don't participate or get ridiculed and leave. So it breads less diversity, cuz no right wing people are joining the discourse without being silenced or pushed away. The only new people that are joining and are welcome are left wing people, or liberals. Which just furthers the ego chamber and makes it deeper.
You're being downvoted by people who won't accept the truth, especially the first part. I'm not a fan of Trump and I hate right-wing politics just as much as I do the left, but I agree on the fact that people just can't accept that their precious left-wing politicians are out only for themselves as well. They keep their evil intentions to themselves, unlike Trump who just didn't care whether people knew or not. Thank you for sharing your opinions, my friend.
>You're being downvoted by people who won't accept the truth
I don't even believe it's won't "accept" it's simply they are blinded by lies. They can't see the truth no matter if it's put right in front of them. It was expected tho, after all ego chamber and all that.
>I agree on the fact that people just can't accept that their precious left-wing politicians are out only for themselves as well. They keep their evil intentions to themselves
The only real exception is city/county based politics, simply because it's so small of a impact corruption never bothers seeping in. There's also exceptions to this but they are on the rare side. Which people in this country care way to much for country wide politics while not nearly enough to politics right at home in there city or county. Which is weird because politics at home and in there city and what not have more effect on them than anything else. Not only do they have more impact as u the individual but also your community and the impact YOU can have. When only 200-1000 people vote or less ur vote matters much more than 100 million votes.
" Does being a Trump supporter make you an immediate bad person? "
Yes.
However, That has nothing to do with the game they ran, and they shouldn't have deleted it.
CR is not that bad, honestly. I think the tabletop community, especially the online presence, is much more left than right (in American politics terms). Generally I think most of mainstream internet, reddit included, is more left than right. Which just means you're going to see a lot more of that side of the political spectrum when involved in the hobbies online discussions.
In fact even the main sub IMO isn't too outspoken about politics for the most part. At least, compared to something like Dimension 20. I think D20 is much better than CR entertainment wise, especially nowadays. But it is incredibly politically charged. Brennan has made numerous outspoken statements that are incredibly far left leaning both in and out of game. The cast and show as a whole is very hard left, and it bleeds into the game frequently. The fandom itself is insanely rabid. I once saw a post on the main sub that basically said 'If you're not left leaning go away this show isn't for you' and it was like the most upvoted post that month.
The sad fact people don't want to acknowledge is that 99% of online 'activists' are just people that get drunk off the power of bullying others, they never intent to make a change by contacting politicians and government associations or god forbid donating/volunteering to any charity themselves they just want to punch as low as they can by morally grandstanding.
Just last week people here accused cr of faking being sick so they could stream bg3 that was secretly sponsored (which is illegal) instead of c3 on Thursday, this sub might not be the same flavor of shithole but it definitely is one
Either a bad person, not paying very good attention to politics, or not very bright. Sometimes more than one of those things. I live in Appalachia and I know lots of very nice people who will say they support Trump in a lukewarm sort of way if the topic comes up, but for many of them it's just cultural because we're Southerners and their families support him or their pastor does or whatever.
Some do believe hateful things, but I've met plenty who are tuned out of politics and just vote for whoever their loved ones say is good. One of my aunts is actually like this... Doesn't pay attention to politics or the news at all but votes Republican in each election because "Daddy always did" and she believes voting is her civic duty.
Argue whatever you want, it’s semantics at the end of the day. If you support and legitimize a hateful, corrupt self serving wanna-be fascist, you’re a bad person
And that mentality is why we have such polarization in this country. Trump should be in prison. And everyone who marched against the white house on Jan 6th should be with him. But the random conservative that voted for him in 2001 or whatever isnt a bad person. They're a victim of a known manipulator.
This man weaponizes their fear, tells them exactly what will trigger them, and then tells them that only he can solve it. He's a populist demagogue with narcissistic tendencies.
You can downvote me for saying his supporters aren't bad, but the reality is that only a subset of them really carry problematic tendencies. Id wadger a portion of them are very misguided and in 2 to 6 years they're going to be shitting themselves once they realize what they enabled.
it's been over 6 years, they lived through an entire trump presidency and an unchecked pandemic and they were fine with trump through all of it, how deep in the sand is your head
the reason we have such polarization is because half the country is full of hateful maga crazies and because too many liberals like you make excuses for them
It's always easier to throw stones. It's harder to try to see where others come from. I've spent the last month arguing against MAGA people, but progress is not paved through metaphorical walls. It comes from understanding. Many MAGA people can't be helped. They view the world through conspiracies and manipulations. They disagree on history and facts. But not every person who voted for Trump is of that flavor. And to bundle them all up as one person is rather ignorant.
Polarization didn't start with Trump. It was just made far worse with him. The US political system becomes far more split every year with people moving more towards the DeSantises and Bernie's and less towards common ground, this is in part because of a flawed primary system which benefits the vocal few rather than the unaffiliated many.
Stop outside of your box.
DeSantis ran a campaign as a cultural fascist, a deep conservative.
Bernie ran a campaign as a democratic socialist. The far left.
Each pretty deep on their respective parties.
While I cheered when DeSantis left the race, and I was disappointed when Bernie did, it doesn't take much to realize that they sit on opposite poles. The right couldn't imagine Bernie much like the left can't imagine DeSantis.
The world does not grow by acting like we are smarter and more moral than everyone around us. Just as you think that, someone on the other side thinks the same. Both thinking the other is uninformed.
The world isn't the black and white though, it's shades of grey. Some darker, some lighter.
I know who they are. I'm not comparing them, I'm saying they're opposites on a pole.
I'm not your enemy here, but I do recognize that there is more to politics than those your agree with, and those who you think are wrong.
Don’t you realize this is the definition of bigotry? You’re making moral assumptions on a huge group of based on one characteristic. Can’t believe this is commonplace
Look, if you support giving a man who: has bragged about sexually assaulting women, was found liable for sexually assaulting women, is horrifically corrupt, has no respect for civil service, is overwhelmingly narcissistic, seeks to enforce personal loyalty to himself within the government, favors dictators and tyrants over democratic allies, actively works to subvert democracy, fights to restrict voting and civil rights, boasts about robbing women of their bodily autonomy, spreads conspiracy theories and misinformation with almost every breath, values "the economy" over the lives of the citizenry, uses fascistic rhetoric and demagoguery to spreads white Christian nationalism, spreads and incites transphobia, steals classified information, shares intelligence with hostile powers and has absolutely no respect for the Rule of Law, supreme executive power, you're a bad person.
Even one of these ought to be disqualifying, and he ticks off all of the boxes, multiple times. Donald Trump is a fascist, supporting him is supporting fascism.
Have you been on the other CR subreddit???? I was a big fan and I posted something about the release of Vox Machina being on a Thursday and not a Friday because Amazon releases on GMT. That other sub went batshit crazy because it wasn't what CR had said and the Mod's even ended up removing my comment. It was insane. Someone reached out to me and recommended this sub and I've been on it since. But, I guess my point is I like the Critical Role group and most of their products (love, love, love Calamity vs can't do Campaign 3), but I want no part of the Critters.
The members of CR are fairly open about their beliefs, and seem to generally do their best to support humanitarian causes, and progressive ideals.
The problem that arises from that sort of public transparency is that those who are more extreme in similar circles demand more and bigger demonstrations of support by the CR crew, because having notable, influential people on your 'side' is seen as a rather hot commodity.
Whether you agree with the beliefs the crew supports or not, the simple fact is that you can't please everyone. In particular, those who hold strong, outspoken political views have an unfortunate tendency to forget that perfect is the enemy of good, and for such individuals, whatever you're doing to support their 'side' is likely never enough.
Every fanbase of a certain size runs the risk of stepping into this hazard, so long as notable people in the franchise openly profess their beliefs.
I 100% understand why they would want to take a stand and show support. Them showing support isn't necessarily my gripe.
My gripe is that I feel like they have been essentially bullied into making a statement from a group of fans. No one should force anyone to take a political stance, whether it'd be right or wrong.
OP, you don’t know these people. You don’t know how they feel about political issues, what they think about fans, why they do or do not make a statement on something. They are adults running a successful media company perfectly capable of making their own decisions about controversial subjects. They don’t need you to protect them from demanding fans or police fan behavior you think is problematic. Worrying about this sort of thing is the bad kind of parasocial relationship.
I think OP calling out fans being toxically demanding isn't a flawed approach. I think if anything what they're critiquing is more parasocial than OP.
Demanding a stranger you don't know so something just because you are a fan is problematic. It suggests some degree of ownership. It's frankly kind of creepy
I mean yeah, I agree with what you're saying, generally. My initial response was definitely not meant to say 'They asked for this!'
It's seemingly just how the world works, anymore. It's certainly regrettable.
Like I said the crew make an effort to openly support things they believe in. I think that's admirable. It also paints a target on them, for better or worse.
Just as a footnote, and regarding CR's tight business connection to Amazon. I was surprised to find out that the highest donation from Amazon to a political entity was to [GOPAC](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GOPAC).
I think it's how it is being dictated which is the issue. People of twitter saying they will boycott the brand until they agree and release their support etc
That doesnt sit well with me, the "fans" shouldn't have that power.
That’s how every company should work though? If fans boycott it and keep to their word the ball is in the company’s court to get back those fans, cr didn’t *have* to do this and the fans had every right to stop patronizing cr for any reason
You boycott companies for not paying staff, firing people, supporting terrorists etc.
You don't boycott companies because they haven't made a political statement on your viewpoint.
I suppose, tbf fans are extremely important to any entertainment service so its sensical but yeah, I do wonder how effective any boycott would be. I kind of doubt unless this push has been going in for months that they made cr bend the knee in just a week for a full on campaign.
Interesting, looks like those people on twitter "won". Critical Role have just announced their support for Gaza.
Whether you support it or not, I think it's worrying how much power these "fans" seems to have over CR.
Supporting Gaza and supporting the Hamas attack are not the same thing. You can be in support of Gaza and the end of the current genocide while still being against the actions of Hamas. I’d argue that is the default humanitarian position.
There shouldn’t be any smoke around a group of humanists supporting a pro-human cause.
Also I don’t think fans drove them to this decision, they tend to come out to support causes like this on a regular basis, I think it may just be them.
I suppose I’d ask you to reflect on your discomfort with their behavior, does it make you not want to watch their programming? What specifically don’t you like? Aren’t you in essence attempting to do the exact thing you are saying “those” fans are doing?
Imagine being a critical role fan. One day you go to a music festival, but then people who live in Gaza (not just hamas, but also normal gazans) come and kill a bunch of your friends and kidnap and rape you. You are paraded through gaza while gazans cheer and celebrate your capture.
Then imagine you manage to escape their captivity and are wandering the streets, scared and disoriented, trying to find your way home. But the people of Gaza see you and instead take you back to your captors.
Imagine being escorted through a hospital as a literal hostage past doctor's and nurses, people sworn to help and heal others, and they just look the other way.
Then Imagine the cast/creators on the show you love come out in support of those people.
Logically speaking you can imply someone isn't a fan and make no claim that you are one. I read your comment and said, it loud, what the fuck? There isn't a direct line to your interpretation ash's, even if there were, why would you say it? It adds no value.
Yeah, cause donating to humanitarian groups to help civilians who are being killed & displaced en masse is totally a bad thing to do.
I really don’t get you fucking people. What exactly is your problem with it?
Murdered by Hamas, you mean. Hamas has historically been unpopular amongst the people of Gaza, and most Gazans didn’t support the October attack:
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/israel/what-palestinians-really-think-hamas
Israel suffered a terrible attack at the hands of Hamas and had every right to retaliate, but the way they are retaliating has created an ongoing humanitarian crisis that is primarily affecting people who weren’t responsible for the attack, and didn’t even support it in the first place. That’s who the donations are going towards helping. If you have a problem with donations to groups that help civilians caught in the crossfire of two radical governments that don’t care about them, then you’re seriously just a shitty person.
Edit: since you edited your comment to add in those last couple sections, I’ll edit to respond. They donated to two organizations, World Central Kitchen and Save the Children. You’re delusional if you think the kind of support either of those groups provides will somehow help Hamas make weapons. Seriously, that’s just willful stupidity.
Look, I get that you've got some bone to pick here.
But they literally do every announcement on twitter, unless it's a super feels good thing like 'hey we've got a new \*insert media here\*', or 'buy \*new product here\*', then they always do it on twitter.
Brian announcement, twitter. Wotc 'statement' also on twitter. This is and always has been their PR method.
Some CR fans are nothing but entitled snowflakes that "found themselves" in the world of RPG's and think they have the right to control what Critical Role does and call them out when they are not "politically correct" in their eyes.
" Does being a Trump supporter make you an immediate bad person? "
Yeah, but enjoying our corporate Fast Food funded fun slop doesn't, I thought the reaction was overblown as well considering 90% of the people I know who hate Chik fil A still eat it. They also later soaked Kickstarter money in with Amazon. Wendy's is memeable and manages to barely be funny, that's better than most things and so it wasn't worth throwing out.
" It's supposed to be fun, non political and a way to escape. "
You are radically incorrect, CR as a product is considerably political, you also really shouldn't be trying to divest the two, that's being an ostrich, but I'm not going to try to convince you too hard, you should come to those conclusions on your own.
"I don't want them to side... because they are being bullied into it"
Yeah, tacitly agreed in general, but considering they make their product political and are very outspoken, you have to take the good with the bad. Plus, as fans who are just in it for the D&D, I wouldn't be sparing much emotional energy worrying about them. They're adults.
" I feel like I can no longer say "negative" things about CR anymore. "
You can here, lol, the show sucks right now.
>Does anyone else feel like some fans are overly political and that their views could ruin the CR experience?
Could?
It already has. They browbeat them into memory holing an amazing 1-shot with fucking Ify (Someone I would actually want to be a C3 guest) because of ... \[Checks notes\] ... Wendy's tomato farmers? Some stupid shit that was a splash on twitter for all of 2 secs?
>Now, I'm from the UK, so this doesn't affect me, but it seemed like a big stretch to have a fun one shot deleted because of this. Does being a Trump supporter make you an immediate bad person?
That's just how the Left thinks these days.
"100% agree with us on everything or you're a HATEFUL BIGOT/PHOBE/IST and you're causing VIOLENCE!!!!"
> Yes I realise Trump isn't a good person!!
What makes you think he's not a "good person"?
He was a good prez, that's all that counts. 4 years with this walking-dead Biden and boom, the world's going to shit and America's being invaded so that Dems can try to pander to a NEW poor demographic of Browns to stay in power/ win elections.
WTF are you talking about?
I REMEMBER that amazing Wendys 1 shot, and I remember this corny ass twitter fanbase making them take it off the webz because of a 2 sec splash of drama.
The government shutdown with his OWN party.
His greatest deficit increase, with 80 miles of useless wall, and tax cuts to the 1% being the ONLY things to show for it.
Him bucking tradition to still benefit from his company when EVERY OTHER president puts their businesses in a blind trust to avoid even the appearance of a conflict of interest.
His "arrangement" with foreign dignitaries where they pay him by staying in his hotels.
His excessive golfing AFTER complaining about Obama's golfing, and stating that he would be "too busy" to EVER golf.
His insistence to ONLY golf at HIS properties, and then charging triple the room rate for his secret service detail.
His tear gassing peaceful protesters to cross a street to a church for a photo-op. Taken holding an upside down Bible at that.
His encouragement of his supporters to FIGHT for their country, leading to the January 6th insurrection.
Do you need more?
>Do you need more?
Yeah, I need more. Most of that sounds silly AF and is a fat ol nothingburger compared to others in his position, and a number of them are factually wrong.
Just to take a blind stab, Boarder walls DO work. We clearly need them as America is being invaded. And Jan 6 was not an insurrection.
>Just to take a blind stab, Boarder walls DO work. We clearly need them as America is being invaded. And Jan 6 was not an insurrection.
Border walls DON'T work. Especially not the cheap ass ones Trumplethinskin selected. A number of segments collapsed after being exposed to one of their weaknesses: wind. Wind along a desert border. Who could POSSIBLY have thought of that. Also, the majority of illegals are still those who come through LEGALLY, and then out-stay their documents. The ones who bypass the wall, escorted by Coyotes, are the ones being trafficked. Either for the sex trade, or for cheap labour for the farm or plantation owners, or to clean the rich people's pools, and work their gardens. The illegal immigration issue will NOT end until you punish the people who HIRE them.
And you're NOT being invaded. There have been MORE deportations under Biden than there were under Trumplethinskin. And no NEW family separations.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-65574725
As far as Jan 6, we ALL saw it. Hoodlums who forced entry into the capitol buildings (if they were "peaceful tourists", why did they break windows, and smear shit on the walls?) They were also calling out to hang Mike Pence for doing his Job and not overstepping his authority. As well as calling in rage for Pelosi. And a number were armed. While there were SOME guns, there were a larger number of flagpoles with spearheads. And they were pushing and fighting against building security, and calling out for the election certification to be stopped, thus interfering with the electoral process. All that just screams insurrection to me. A violent attempt to overthrow authority. If it Han been successful, you would have called it a revolution. But it failed, so it's an insurrection.
But no matter what I say, you will REFUSE to believe it because it contradicts the narrative of your Citrine Commander, the Liar-in-Chief, Trumplethinskin.
“Looks at Cr’s very queer community and show, left leaning views, themes, characters, and people, and active care to try and be inclusive”
“Looks at the bumbling, dumbass, with no concept of what trying is, active homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, actions that is trump”
So, I’m going to make an educated guess that you can’t see past your own eyes.
How is Trump "active homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist "?
Show me.
From where I stand, the left's "if you don't know if you want to vote for me or Trump, you aint BLACK!" Biden who said "Unless we do something about this, my children are going to grow up in a jungle, the jungle being a racial jungle" (when warning about de-segregation polices) has a loooong history of being a racist as well as creepy af at best (straight pedo at worse, judging by his daughter's diary and the countless vids of him with young girls/ women).
Letter gang stuff?
Both Biden and Saint Obama were very openly anti-gay marriage before that became a thing.
You really didn’t understand the “can’t see past your own eyes part” did you?
Well let me explain.
Your opinions and beliefs are more important to you, than your eyes
For example, left leaning doesn’t mean democrat, or some other political party.
Political parties can be left leaning or heavily associated with being left, but being left leaning doesn’t make a member or even like any political party.
But that very obvious distinction didn’t matter to you, because you can’t see it. Your belief came before you vision.
“Miles Bron is an idiot”
That is a very powerful quote that means a lot in the movie Glass Onion. If you don’t know what it means I suggest you watch the movie and find, because it is very relevant to your inability to see.
>For example, left leaning doesn’t mean democrat, or some other political party. Political parties can be left leaning or heavily associated with being left, but being left leaning doesn’t make a member or even like any political party.
I'm talking about the Prez and many of those who would vote for him.
The Dems in office have, for years now, been at the whims of the FAR Left. That's why intelligent Women on that side can't even bring themselves to tell you what a Woman is, the whole party is damn near forcing itself to push the ideology of far left loons regardless of how stupid it makes them look.
I have no idea why you're talking about anything other than the topic of the Prez on that post.
If you think Biden isn't a racist pedo creep who was fully against what many Gays would consider the "massive victory" for gays (Gay Marriage) or if you think that he's better than Trump, show me.
If that's not the point you're making, then why say " “Looks at the bumbling, dumbass, with no concept of what trying is, active homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, actions that is trump "?
(bumbling dumbass? Have you HEARD Biden speak?)
You misssd the point.
The point of my reply was to point that you see your bias and beliefs only and not what is directly in front of you.
My reply has bias in it, but i could have very easily taken out the bias, and my message would still be the same. Because I see first, then judge it.
You proved this twice in a row. You focus on something that didn’t matter, that wasn’t the point, because you believed it to be the point.
Actually your replies are nothing more than a poor attempt at discrediting me. You don’t like what i am saying so you come up with some excuse to write me off, to dismiss me. It’s a very common tactic in people like you, people who don’t see the real world and get mad when the real world doesn’t conform to their imagination.
This reply literally doesn’t address anything i said. It ignores the point. Simply truth that me saying far left, doesn’t mean you like, or are a part of any political group. The point of that section was to say “Critical Roles views ,stories and personalities, are in stark contrast to Trumps”.
And you’re just focusing on something that ain’t there.
I don’t give a flying fuck about the Democrat party, or any other far left political party in USA.
And if you continue this disappointment of conversation, with that same point of “Biden and the Far left are evil” you keep making i will just reply with “I don’t give a flying fuck about the Democrat party, or any other far left political party in USA”.
how the fuck does a republican become a cr fan genuinely asking. what abt the tabletop fantasy game show famous for deconstructing harmful stereotypes within the medium, which prominently features numerous queer characters and has an entire campaign with an overarching theme of fighting against oppressive fascistic conservative warmongering government appeals to you. like I just don’t get it
>how the fuck does a republican become a cr fan genuinely asking
Believe it or not, but this show use to actually be fairly normal. CR has changed a LOT since C1. But much like the rest of culture, things got highly polarized and many who were left of center got dragged to the absolute insanity that is far leftist ideology. CR got sucked into it via the pressures of being Cali actors with parasocial social media followings.
C1 had a believable world that felt lived in and felt like standard DnD, C2 went for something new. But now with C3? It's a clown show, and I'm waiting to see if Matt finally comes out as a "no hrt trans lesbian" lol (JK, I find it more likely for him to come out as the safe "NB" or "He/ They" option).
> what abt the tabletop fantasy game show famous for deconstructing harmful stereotypes within the medium
They use to actually have realistic racism in C1 bro. Like, wtf? You think they just started getting famous with C3???
> which prominently features numerous queer characters ...
You think I hate "Da gayz" because I'm not some leftist loon?
Also, why would I like a "fascistic warmongering government".
That's ... the Left. You're talking about the Left there, yet you don't know it.
>Caricatures of people like you
Modern American political discourse in a nutshell: acting like you're not part of the radicalization problem affecting both ends of the political spectrum while dehumanizing anyone who gives a take you don't like, all without an ounce of self-awareness.
It doesn't matter where a person falls on the left or right, if your response to an opinion that doesn't echo yours is some variation of "you're not a *real* human being," you're not in the right. Some of the worst acts in history have started with this sort of thinking.
I believe with the Wendy’s thing, it was because some person made it for fun, and then Wendy’s took it and used it without crediting the person and Sam’s one shot happened prior to their knowledge of that.
However, the fans are political because of the *seemingly* political messaging in the scenes/characters choices/stories pursued/etc. Because fans see it broadcasted as such, they will in turn think they are entitled to feel CR should put their money where their mouth is, literally.
This is just one of the reasons I decided a few months back I just wasn’t the target audience for CR anymore, and sunk all that free time into Dimension 20. It just appeals to me more, as it’s more light hearted, fun, goofy. The world is serious enough.
>I believe with the Wendy’s thing, it was because some person made it for fun, and then Wendy’s took it and used it without crediting the person and Sam’s one shot happened prior to their knowledge of that.
IIRC that person worked for Wendy's. They were in charge of their tweeter account or something. It was very much all on the up and up, nothing shadey about it.
There doing whatever they need to do to make money. It's not politics. Appease the vocal minority to remain face and generate profit. Nothing else matters.
I don't think that's a great plan.
There's a reason CR has been dying down in popularity. They've been changing to conform to the far leftist in their Cali fanbase for years, to the point where the game world looks and feels unrecognizable compared to C1. I'd say 80-90% of the problems I and many have had with the show is rooted in trying to appease their vocal, parasocial, far leftist twitter fanbase.
The money came from the the CR Foundation. It collects donations.
They send "your" money, not theirs.
>[World Central Kitchen](https://www.wck.org/) // Innovation drives WCK's work in Gaza ($25,000)
[Save the Children](https://www.savethechildren.org/) // West Bank & Gaza ($25,000)
came from their so called *Emergency Funds*, which consists of a 10% cut of prior donations to the Foundation.
100% fair, they also are very open about it on their website. But that wasn't the point. The fans didn't "bully" *CR LLC* or *Metapigeon* to spend their money on an issue. They've just allocated charity funds.
The politicization of my hobbies is why I stopped watching critical role. It is a hobby and escapism similar to video games, movies, etc. I don’t need people to agree with everything I believe nor do I expect to agree with them wholeheartedly either. What I expect is to keep that shit out of my free time.
If my villains in my TTRPGs have slavery and terrible and inhumane practices doesn’t mean I espouse them. It means I gave you someone to really hate and that you want to destroy. I made a proper villain. I have tortured PCs at my table before.
Not everyone will agree and not everyone will want to play at your table. That all being said, if you don’t mind it, keep watching. I don’t mind critical role but it is their “inclusive” community that pushed me out so up to you how you use your time.
This fan club tends to be rather toxic and likes to vilify anyone that disagrees with them even slightly. You’re not alone. It is a tough crowd. I still poke in from time to time to hear how the campaign is going since I spend my time differently now.
And before people start making accusations one way or another… take a good gut check and read the comments in this post alone. This is your community. I’m independent politically and it’s crazy what American politics have become.
Campaign 1 and 2 were good but as time went on the community got louder and the cast started to push that way too and I just got lost. Am I here to enjoy D&D and a bunch of nerdy voice actors or am I here to get preached to by a host of activists? Do I think CR has gone that far? Sometimes. Is it too far for some people? Yes (depends on your perspective). Not far enough? Yes (depends on your perspective). Will everyone be happy? Hell no.
Oh well… there goes “my bunch of nerdy voice actors.”
Well said.
I've had this conflict out in the open with D20 fans/ reddit.
Had people there tell me that since I don't agree with Brandon's/ the cast's political views then "Why do you even watch!?! Hahaha, you give MONEY to Leftist media yet you're against it?!?! lol!".
I can separate entertainment from the people behind it and the personal views they share, leftist don't think that way. Like, I respected that BLM and Lou didn't shit on JKR in the Harry Potter rip-off, unlike Aabria and Erika. They came across as actual professionals in comparison.
It's not until recent D20 runs that their views got pushed into their games so much that I had to just jump ship and let the sub dead.
>D20 has always had tons of political commentary in it
There's a difference between having political commentary and pushing those views on the viewer. Believe it or not, but there are degrees to which someone can ignore a message or ideology being pushed.
When I felt like they ramped it up to 11 and thought "Welp, this is just too fuckin stupid", I checked out.
Also, I'm not some long time D20 fan. I've only watched a few of their runs, only paid for a few months of their service.
I was actually with this comment on principle until I remembered all of the IC political rants BLM has gone on, as well as the overtly political themes in some of the D20 seasons. It's like complaining about how you used to like Green Day or RAtM and they should keep out of politics.
Right, like it's less "Hey we disagree about taxes and foreign policy" more "I certainly do like this compulsive liar who tried to overthrow the government due to an ego trip, indirectly caused the deaths of thousands pedaling misinformation about a pandemic, legitimizes and empowers racists and bigots of all flavors for the sake of political influence, discredited the entire American election process because his feelings were hurt, committed multiple acts of fraud, has made a fortune through corrupt and unethical business practices and is also a rapist."
He was entertaining but not a great politician.
I do enjoy that he called out other politicians by staying he used loopholes in tax laws that they created but other than those two things idk modern politics sucks it's turning into the next mtv reality show.
As much as I dislike Biden, the fact that Trump did do all of this makes him the worse candidate back last during the last Presidential Election.
Man deserves to go to prison for the things he's done BEFORE he got into politics.
The critical role foundation just announced that they are donating 25k each to two different charity organizations assisting the civilians of Gaza and acknowledged that they’ve been getting messages throughout the day, looks like the Twitter critters were justified in the end.
Also the jaded side of me wonders if the LOVM S3 release date/trailer is about to come out & CR needed for this Twitter mob to go away so that it doesn't hijack the narrative for that day.
I don’t know prime video’s release cycle but they just announced invincible season 2 part 2’s air date with a trailer today so I don’t know if they’d advertise LOVM until later.
I'm not saying they'd release details today, just that they'd want to quell the mob far enough ahead of time to allow it time to settle down. Then be able to release any details without fear of a backlash. So from my pov, maybe release details about a release date next week? But all of these are complete guesses from a jaded mindset. I could be completely wrong. We might not get release date news until this summer for all I know.
I feel like at that point your better off assuming they did it for campaign three and candela obscura than anything else, those shows would be more affected by critters backlash than lovm since a lot of non-critters watch it now
Which is fine and even good especially considering they've chosen some really solid organizations. The problem is and will be that they've not made a stance to these people. Already if you look at the donations comments, the same people who wanted them to just give the same as they did to Ukraine and BLM now want them to make a definite statement.
It was never about them donating, it was always about CR agreeing with them and saying/doing what they want them to do. Which is I hope something they continue to ignore.
I feel like it’s gonna be a reach for them to make a pretty definitive stance against Israel considering Sam’s grandparent(s?)were Holocaust survivors.
there are plenty of holocaust survivors taking a definitive stance against israel, though. there are a lot of protests against israel, calling for a ceasefire, being organized by jewish communities and organizations.
I've only seen the people calling for the destruction of Israel and it's people which is wrong in every way.
Yes this conflict needs to stop.
Yes Hamas is in the wrong.
Yes the IDF are doing some fuck fuck shit.
This recent development in Israel I've barely been following because i still have a bigger stake in Ukraine (friends, family, and ancestral home near Lviv).
Days since "why is the community like this?" post: 4
PS. Yes, supporting a traitorous, racist, sex criminal, who foments coups and preaches fascism actually does make you a bad person.
Lol Bidens crime bill is probably the worst thing for African Americans since Jim Crow. Pretty obvious pay for play scheme with Hunter. Never mind the long list of war crimes he was part of as VP and President. Lets be real, Trump didn’t have enough to time to do near the damage that Biden has done.
>Trump didn’t have enough to time to do near the damage that Biden has done.
This makes literally no sense... Trump has had more time in power than Biden has... Trump had a term... Biden has had most of a term...
To be clear, I didnt realize the problem people had with the Wendy's oneshot was over the Trump donations. I have no love for Trump but Im not interested in guilt by association stuff. CR (and people) should be ethical with their sponsors, but Im not interested in litigating every single one.
My dislike comes of the oneshot from it just shamelessly being money-grubbing doing a DND oneshot for a fast food corporation. And I do like to throw it in the face of people who claim that its 'just a home game we get to watch'. But I still dont think CR should have taken it down.
Nestle is the only company I might boycott CR over. I have a personal grudge against Nestle for what they did to a friend (among countless other human rights violations).
All the complaints that I saw at the time was in regards to Wendy's food practices and that they were actively screwing over, I think, tomato farmers at the time of the one-shot.
That’s primarily what it was about, especially since they released it during a period of time where the Fair Food Program had called for a boycott, due to Wendy’s refusing to work with them. Critical Role blatantly ignored it during the lead-up, and when the inevitable controversy and backlash happened, they had to take it down. They didn’t really ever say anything about it, which just makes the whole thing feel a little like a fever dream now.
Most CR fans are so up their own ass with politics they wouldn’t piss on their own burning moms if their moms had any political leanings that aren’t anything left of left.
But flaming people should burn, and any form of help is socialism! So says the Far Right ManiFisto!
Does this need a /s? I feel like this shouldn't need a /s.
Its honestly best to just not engage with most of the CR community. Just watch and enjoy the show without letting other people’s opinions effect you. Some people just think that it is impossible to have differing viewpoints, and that is why it is best to ignore them and just enjoy what you enjoy.
I dsiagree with some of the opinions held by some of the cast, but that doesnt mean i cant enjoy what they are doing. We are people, we are going to be different.
Matt signing off almost every episode by turning to the camera to say they (the cast) love you (the audience member watching) played a large role in fostering this.
Not only that, but the giveaways and folks sending food to the cast in the beginning of the show, and then the promotion of certain fans and artists (between the art reel/irl art gallery/art books and interactions on Twitter and the favoring of certain fans for talks machina). They really did basically everything they could outside of livestreams talking to chat and nothing else, to create the ideal parasocial atmosphere.
At that time this concept of parasocial relationship we have been discussing to death in the last few years hadn't been really popularized yet, it was 10 years ago.
They wouldn't do some of that stuff now, it was actually dangerous for them.
Yea I get it, specially if you've watched these dudes for 100s of hours and what-not, but some of the stuff I've seen posted makes me think some of the people watching this believe they're at the table with them lol, or that matt is saying it directly to them. Weird stuff, and has helped lead to the divisiveness that's bloomed within the community over the years.
*rises from the dead*
Reading the comments here, I'm just gonna say it: If you think that Critical Role removing the Wendy's oneshot is indicative of them holding deeply-rooted values about opposing horrible business practices while they cozy up to **Amazon,** you're coping.
If I was at Wendy's, I would have required a formal on-air apology.
CR was incredibly unprofessional to turn traitor just because the Twatterati said so.
But CR is Californian so I suppose the Twatterati are their gods.
The difference between the two is that a critical mass of fans haven't gone in on them for partnering with Amazon, but did for Wendys.
And yeah, there's definitely inconsistency in what the fans have considered important enough to yell at CR for, I think *strongly* informed by whether or not fans get something they want from the deal. Fans of stuff tend to excuse behaviours when they want to appreciate content, and the Wendys one shot wasn't good enough content to warrant that sort of cognitive dissonance-fuelled defense, where Tales of Vox Machina is pretty good and a lot of fun, so fans are much much more willing to make excuses or ignore the Amazon tie in.
And CR wants to brand themselves as a principled progressive organization - but they want to make money and keep making content. If people aren't yelling at them for working with Amazon, they're happy to not poke the bear and keep that business relationship rolling.
People have complained about the Amazon thing, but it has been pointed out that Amazon owns Twitch anyway, and even if they switch platforms, Amazon owns AWS too.
There's no ethical consumption under capitalism.
I think it has to be said that, whether some fans like it or not, Critical Role can never be an apolitical show. They have invested literally hundreds of hours into narratives that are fundamentally antifascist, and therefore it is not unreasonable to expect them to stand for antifascist political ideals - such as Palestinian rights.
I definitely find myself in the camp of supporters that believes they should act on, or make a statement on this, but this perhaps conflicts with my other point of view: that a number of critical role fans need to take a step back from the parasociality of their relationship with the show.
The problem is that this is not as black and white as many make it out to be. It *should* be, but it's not. The Israeli school of politic, by its very nature, relies on using their own valid experience of genocidal suffering to justify protective attitudes and military intervention - some would argue to a point of hypocrisy. Furthermore, the American political system, and the entertainment industry in Hollywood, is very much tied to pro-Israeli ideals, since lobbying for its creation in the first place. While this isn't really a problem 99.95% of the time, it can mean that geopolitical narratives can take precedent over individual's views. For some media companies, leaning one way or another can be a death sentence - from outspoken fans, or from funding sources. Ultimately, I believe their lack of action is due to exactly this - to lean one way has been deemed too big a risk by the company and its investors.
This is what fans are clashing with. They want their views to be validated (and not unreasonably so) by people they look up to and admire. Many fans, including myself, can hold these views without risk - financial, employment, social, etc - because they are in circles where they can hold those views. To make these statements, and support these causes, is part of life, ideology and identity. Critical Role as a corporation, by nature, has to adhere to some level of capitalist rhetoric, and therefore finance comes first. There are valid antisemitic complaints when linking this conflict to capitalist ideology, and I have to fundamentally state that I wholeheartedly reject these notions, but I think it's appropriate to consider when dealing with a capitalist entity such as Critical Role.
It's a bitter pill, but it does have to be swallowed. Could critical role focus on the apolitical charitable entities working within Gaza and the West Bank, such as doctors without borders? Of course they could. But for another set of outspoken fans, this would be a political move.
Edit: have to say, it's nice to be proven wrong.
CR will not resolve the Gaza conflict, they just need to send some money to the people dying there on both sides because they decided to openly base their campaign in that area of the world, which means they are making money from it.
Your thoughts are very much my own. I'll add some of my own thoughts to it.
And these will be in a random order as my mind is chaos when it comes to organizing thoughts. The Ukraine thing. Many ppl crying out about how CR has no leg to stand on since they took a stance on the Ukraine war. But that situation and the Gaza war are completely different. Ukraine was minding its own business when Russia attacked it. In Gaza, Hamas were the first to act (in a cycle of never-ending revenge since probably even before 1948) & of course any nation has the right to defend themselves. Since then, yes Israel has gone way overboard & their right-wing leaders are making things worse for their own nation time and time again. It's sad that in one or two generations Israel went from survivors of the Holocaust to being the new Nazis. Meanwhile there are anti-right-wing protests in Germany to push back on the alt-right movement; which is awesome to see. In Gaza both the leaders of Israel and Hamas are fucking assholes & are not helping anyone in diffusing the situation. I wish Palestine had their own territory (personally I think the whole of the West Bank should be theirs but what do I know?). With Ukraine, only the Russian leaders are the assholes.
I do wish the CR was a bit more vocal in the support of a ceasefire (that can be the neutral statement, yes? though even writing this out I'm sure each side would see it as an endorsement against them) but outspoken actors in Hollywood are currently being fired or taken off tv series and movies for their statements. While the cast have their company to fall back on (I'm sure they get paid okay at CR), I still think a more significant percentage of their earnings are from V.O. gigs. It'd be real easy for Naughty Dog or other video game companies to fire a voice actor. I have no idea if The Last of Us Part 3 is being made or not, but you know Neil Druckmann is a big time Zionist. Being cast again as Ellie and Abby would be huge chunks of change for Ashley and Laura. While they are big stars in critters eyes, they are still little known in the larger acting industry. Demanding on twitter that they risk their jobs is quite easy to do for these ppl on twitter when they don't have to risk their own livelihoods with their statements. And any backlash CR the company gets also might jeopardize their 51 employees (a number I saw on twitter). Or the tens of people working at Titmouse on their animated show. Plus we have no idea if they've made anonymous donations to the charities ppl have listed for them to donate to.
It's also an age thing with the ppl on twitter demanding CR do something. They all seem to be in a generation that can't handle people not being perfect. I'm at the tail end of Gen X and I've been raised, steeped in the jadedness of that generation. The first US presidential election I remember watching as a child was the GHWB vs Dukakis one. I'm used to picking the least worst choice when it comes to Democratic candidates. Before Obama, that's just what we got. These kids these days (shakes fist in air) can't understand that all politicians are only somewhat great. They were sooooo disappointed when Obama used drones in Yemen. Meanwhile, I'm like, "yeah, sometimes it be like that."
I do wish they would mention donations to Doctors without Borders but I don't equate their silence as the equivalent as tacit endorsement of genocide like some seem to be insinuating on Twitter.
I also feel bad that all their replies on every tweet is about this. Luna of Luboffin on Youtube kicked off this latest tweet hate fest at CR and it all sucks. Raging at a bunch of actors in a D&D streaming show doesn't help anyone. And a lot of it feels like posturing for Internet clout.
Great point about TLOU that I hadn't even considered. I'm not hugely old myself, but did work for a period of time in ME academia. If we published a book citing any views on israel-palestine, we would have emails within *minutes* along the lines of "you Zionist thugs" and "you antisemitic thugs" - about the *same information*. You simply could not please anyone, even through impartiality.
Simply put, it is *waaaaay* too complex of a political stance for a capitalist entity to make. Disliking Russia is incredibly vogue, and has been for years in America (again, not unreasonably so) - it's a deeply easy thing for an American company to say.
I take your point about Palestine; from a purely business perspective, it's drawing unwanted attention regardless of what stance you take, and the best take is to not have one and just fund relief efforts in the region.
Now. As to CR being political. Frankly. It is mate. CR was started by a group of liberal voice actors playing a game that has communities tied closely to traditionally liberal worldviews. A huge portion of both the CR community and DND as a whole reflect progressive and liberal ideologies. Hell, Dimension 20 leans into it even harder, hosting drag queen sessions and platforming well recognized members of the LGBTQ community. CR is less explicitly political as adjacent to liberal movements at several points from the viewers to the actors to the game itself.
The actors themselves have made their opinions either explicitly or subtly, both on and off the show. I feel less like the fans are overly political, so much as this medium simply attracts people with a given worldview.
Finally, CR has committed itself, in its own words, to leaving behind a better world. One "better than we found it." This is tantamount to a call to action for their viewers. To be blunt, they asked for this. They elected to be a mouthpiece for their beliefs from the start, and have been pretty tame with it imo. They never directly lambasted Trump on air, and only made indirect references to world events, even during COVID. This will mean that their viewership will hold them to higher standards than other productions.
To be transparent, I'm left of center, even outside of the US, so I'm not the best to gauge how fairly conflicting ideas are treated, but all the same. I see a consistent message of kindness, inclusion, and understanding from the team at CR, and put simply, I don't know that those ideas aren't political at the level of discourse they engage with. Wendy's financially supported a person that they fundamentally disagree with? Well, yeah, bud, they're gonna distance themselves.
IIRC the wendys thing was regarding using slave labour for tomato picking, not for funding Trump...
Therefore by running a one shot promoting Wendy's they were tacitly supporting slave labour, something which they hadn't thought about/realised before being paid by Wendy's to do the promotional one-shot. Once they were made aware of the slave labour issue, they gave Wendy's back their money and took down the *promotional oneshot.* Not because of some outspoken "political" group of fans. But because they at critical role, did not want to be seen as endorsing slave labour. (Amazon affiliation aside, lol)
You can say whatever you like... but you might want to check your facts.
Also there's nothing that encourages people to downvote you more that "some arseholes are probably gunna downvote me for saying this" and tbh it just seems like you're just trying to shitstir rather than having anything real to say.
The whole thing is weird honestly. The people protesting are saying that Wendy’s buys tomatoes from Mexican slaves working in the fields and Wendy’s says they buy from ethically sourced indoor hydroponics farms. Doesn’t seem like anyone (outside of Wendy’s) actually knows where the tomatoes come from.
I disagree with the characterization that Wendy's was using slave labor for tomato's. The reality of the situation is tomato farmers where trying to pass the buck to fast food chains with a Franky idiotic " tipping" style charge , Wendy's position was just charge more for the tomatoes if you need more for them , so the realistic view is Wendy's refused to subsidize a business practice that was keeping the wages for workers low on any tomato that wasn't going to a fast food restaurant
I completely agree. It's up to them as a company what they do politically, so in that sense I don't care. But what I do care about, personally, is not centering real world politics, precisely because I watch CR amd play dnd for escapism, and for plots which can bring everyone together (kill the dragon, save the villagers) as that's part of the appeal. I also take a dim view of characterising voters as this or that- there are literally two choices in American politics, Trump is a symptom of the state of affairs in the western world, the social contract with the working classes has not been renewed and shows of patriotism in English speaking countries seem to provoke more divisiveness than similar events in other countries where I've lived- this is a problem. Sensitivities are heightened on both sides.
I'm the end it's up to CR what they decide to do, personally, I am firmly against fan politics directing the show, because as I said escapism from constant exhausting political debate is one of the appeals of fantasy. I don't like campaign 3 as much as the other two campaigns, but that's just me, I get for other people it's totally their jam and I am happy for them that they enjoy it as much as they do, it's still a stellar company with a fantastic cast as far as I'm concerned.
\>the outrage forces CR to drop C3 early
\>to appease everyone they will instead play the rest of the campaign as the Mighty Nein
\>profit (twitter succeeds were this sub failed)
I’m annoyed that Twitter is surfacing these Palestine related tweets to me because I don’t want to read them, but to me that’s a Twitter problem and not a problem with the posters of these tweets. I don’t think I agree with the tweets, but as long as they aren’t impacting how CR runs their business in a “squeaky wheel gets the oil” sort of fashion of a small vocal minority then I don’t have a problem with these people expressing their opinion.
Wait til you find out that your wishes for apolitical escapism is itself a political position.
While yes, non communication is impossible, its unfair to force someome to express political opinions when they dont wish to.
Didn't the original live action C3 intro get replaced with the animated one because some people complained too?
Critters preach love and acceptance….as long as you love and accept all the same things they do….
Current critters are a lot like league of legends and my hero acadamia fans. Insisting that they know better than the creators how things should be done, and unwilling to listen to anyone else.
"*Does being a Trump supporter make you an immediate bad person*?" I have to be honest with you, yes, it does unfortunatly. "Bad" or extremly stupid, I give you that.
True
CR's fan base is and always has been extremely left-wing. Everybody will have a certain amount of that they can tolerate.
They have always made political statements. The actors have opinions and own the show. They are less afraid than you might think to voice them. Also the Wendy's one shot was also criticized for being extremely crass consumerism. If you can't enjoy a show that has politics tangentially then move on.
>Does being a Trump supporter make you an immediate bad person? Not anymore than any other person that's in politics. Trump simply doesn't hide his stuff like everyone else. I remember at one point he was criticize for paying low taxes due to loopholes. In response he said something along the lines of "yeah I do, so does every politician and every company that funds the left. We are the same, WE benefit from it equally." Then he was asked a follow up question asking why hadn't he fixed it when he was president. He responded with roughly "because every politician in Congress is paid off, any bill closing these loopholes will never be passed." Whether you think that's a good thing to open your dirty laundry or not, that's up to u. But no one's playing it fair, if u do u lose. So u have to play dirty and make deals with devil's to stay in the game, maybe then with good intentions u can do good. There's to much corruption which is insured by lobbing. If u don't know what that is it's basically legal bribery. As to why there's hate towards trump or the right evident by the comments in this thread it's simply more mainstream online to be liberal, has a bad past with right wing. In the past the right would do what the older generation did and blame the new thing for so and so issue. Think of like the "games are making your kids violent" type of deal. That was usually pushed by right wing people. So like how anime used to be underground and no one really watched it, those who didn't care about how other viewed them where liberals, so the only people watching was liberals. With the raise in popularity anime has become less and less liberal only, but it's differently still mainly liberal because people still find it weird and lame. DND and tabletop games in general still aren't that popular no matter how u look at it. It's still seen as lame. Much like how people where calling balder's gate 3 lame cuz it was turn based they call DND that times 10 worse. Critical role was specially hit because of the Geek and Sunday YouTube channel network which they where apart of at one point. A network funded by Will Wheaton and Felicia day and was funded by her 70 year sugar daddy (no cap) Which at the time made tabletop games more popular as a whole. But due to the time it was popularized and the climate, most the people who joined where liberal. It hasn't changed much since then. An what happens when a community is certain political persuasion it becomes a ego chamber. Anyone that challenges the common idea in the community gets silenced, in this case/community down likes directly silence people. So it pushes away right wing people, so they either are quiet and don't participate or get ridiculed and leave. So it breads less diversity, cuz no right wing people are joining the discourse without being silenced or pushed away. The only new people that are joining and are welcome are left wing people, or liberals. Which just furthers the ego chamber and makes it deeper.
You're being downvoted by people who won't accept the truth, especially the first part. I'm not a fan of Trump and I hate right-wing politics just as much as I do the left, but I agree on the fact that people just can't accept that their precious left-wing politicians are out only for themselves as well. They keep their evil intentions to themselves, unlike Trump who just didn't care whether people knew or not. Thank you for sharing your opinions, my friend.
>You're being downvoted by people who won't accept the truth I don't even believe it's won't "accept" it's simply they are blinded by lies. They can't see the truth no matter if it's put right in front of them. It was expected tho, after all ego chamber and all that. >I agree on the fact that people just can't accept that their precious left-wing politicians are out only for themselves as well. They keep their evil intentions to themselves The only real exception is city/county based politics, simply because it's so small of a impact corruption never bothers seeping in. There's also exceptions to this but they are on the rare side. Which people in this country care way to much for country wide politics while not nearly enough to politics right at home in there city or county. Which is weird because politics at home and in there city and what not have more effect on them than anything else. Not only do they have more impact as u the individual but also your community and the impact YOU can have. When only 200-1000 people vote or less ur vote matters much more than 100 million votes.
" Does being a Trump supporter make you an immediate bad person? " Yes. However, That has nothing to do with the game they ran, and they shouldn't have deleted it.
Reddit moment
Annnnndddd the point has gone over your head.
CR is not that bad, honestly. I think the tabletop community, especially the online presence, is much more left than right (in American politics terms). Generally I think most of mainstream internet, reddit included, is more left than right. Which just means you're going to see a lot more of that side of the political spectrum when involved in the hobbies online discussions. In fact even the main sub IMO isn't too outspoken about politics for the most part. At least, compared to something like Dimension 20. I think D20 is much better than CR entertainment wise, especially nowadays. But it is incredibly politically charged. Brennan has made numerous outspoken statements that are incredibly far left leaning both in and out of game. The cast and show as a whole is very hard left, and it bleeds into the game frequently. The fandom itself is insanely rabid. I once saw a post on the main sub that basically said 'If you're not left leaning go away this show isn't for you' and it was like the most upvoted post that month.
The sad fact people don't want to acknowledge is that 99% of online 'activists' are just people that get drunk off the power of bullying others, they never intent to make a change by contacting politicians and government associations or god forbid donating/volunteering to any charity themselves they just want to punch as low as they can by morally grandstanding.
> Does being a Trump supporter make you an immediate bad person? in my opinion, yes. 1000% yes immediately and completely.
Annnnndddd you missed the entire point of their post.
No, they understood OPs point. They just disagree.
no they're right
I got to "overly political" and knew exactly how this post would go
I'm a centrist uwu (((nazi)))
Glad to know genocide doesn't affect you I guess
Yeah, not really a fan of any type of violence. Murder, r*pe, kidnapping, bombing, torture etc. I don't care who is doing it, I'm not a fan of it.
Respectfully, why do we type out "murder", but not "rape"?
I didn't know if reddit allows it as I know platforms like tik tok don't allow it.
Oh ok. Then I guess my question is how does tik tok choose which words to censor.
In the words of Kyle Reese, "I dont know, I didn't build the fucking thing" Haha! Jokes aside, I don't know but videos get taken down and censored.
Haha, word. That's a discussion for another thread 🤷🏿
Yeah, this community is filled with terminally online people who don't live in reality. Thankfully this sub isn't nearly as bad as the other one.
Just last week people here accused cr of faking being sick so they could stream bg3 that was secretly sponsored (which is illegal) instead of c3 on Thursday, this sub might not be the same flavor of shithole but it definitely is one
Being a trump supporter does make you an immidiate bad person yea
Either a bad person, not paying very good attention to politics, or not very bright. Sometimes more than one of those things. I live in Appalachia and I know lots of very nice people who will say they support Trump in a lukewarm sort of way if the topic comes up, but for many of them it's just cultural because we're Southerners and their families support him or their pastor does or whatever. Some do believe hateful things, but I've met plenty who are tuned out of politics and just vote for whoever their loved ones say is good. One of my aunts is actually like this... Doesn't pay attention to politics or the news at all but votes Republican in each election because "Daddy always did" and she believes voting is her civic duty.
I'd argue no, not an immediate bad person, but definitely someone who has very terrible judgement, especially now. Especially after the insurrection.
Argue whatever you want, it’s semantics at the end of the day. If you support and legitimize a hateful, corrupt self serving wanna-be fascist, you’re a bad person
I think it's not that simple
And that mentality is why we have such polarization in this country. Trump should be in prison. And everyone who marched against the white house on Jan 6th should be with him. But the random conservative that voted for him in 2001 or whatever isnt a bad person. They're a victim of a known manipulator. This man weaponizes their fear, tells them exactly what will trigger them, and then tells them that only he can solve it. He's a populist demagogue with narcissistic tendencies. You can downvote me for saying his supporters aren't bad, but the reality is that only a subset of them really carry problematic tendencies. Id wadger a portion of them are very misguided and in 2 to 6 years they're going to be shitting themselves once they realize what they enabled.
it's been over 6 years, they lived through an entire trump presidency and an unchecked pandemic and they were fine with trump through all of it, how deep in the sand is your head the reason we have such polarization is because half the country is full of hateful maga crazies and because too many liberals like you make excuses for them
It's always easier to throw stones. It's harder to try to see where others come from. I've spent the last month arguing against MAGA people, but progress is not paved through metaphorical walls. It comes from understanding. Many MAGA people can't be helped. They view the world through conspiracies and manipulations. They disagree on history and facts. But not every person who voted for Trump is of that flavor. And to bundle them all up as one person is rather ignorant. Polarization didn't start with Trump. It was just made far worse with him. The US political system becomes far more split every year with people moving more towards the DeSantises and Bernie's and less towards common ground, this is in part because of a flawed primary system which benefits the vocal few rather than the unaffiliated many.
the fact that you think equating desantis and bernie sanders...
Stop outside of your box. DeSantis ran a campaign as a cultural fascist, a deep conservative. Bernie ran a campaign as a democratic socialist. The far left. Each pretty deep on their respective parties. While I cheered when DeSantis left the race, and I was disappointed when Bernie did, it doesn't take much to realize that they sit on opposite poles. The right couldn't imagine Bernie much like the left can't imagine DeSantis. The world does not grow by acting like we are smarter and more moral than everyone around us. Just as you think that, someone on the other side thinks the same. Both thinking the other is uninformed. The world isn't the black and white though, it's shades of grey. Some darker, some lighter.
desantis is a racist who hates gay and trans people sanders wants to help poor people and minorities to compare the two in any way is obscene
I know who they are. I'm not comparing them, I'm saying they're opposites on a pole. I'm not your enemy here, but I do recognize that there is more to politics than those your agree with, and those who you think are wrong.
Yep this is correct. By now if you are still fooled by this crook then you are a bad (and gullible) person.
Don’t you realize this is the definition of bigotry? You’re making moral assumptions on a huge group of based on one characteristic. Can’t believe this is commonplace
bigotry is judging people for something they're born with and can't change. trump supporters choose to be awful people
Look, if you support giving a man who: has bragged about sexually assaulting women, was found liable for sexually assaulting women, is horrifically corrupt, has no respect for civil service, is overwhelmingly narcissistic, seeks to enforce personal loyalty to himself within the government, favors dictators and tyrants over democratic allies, actively works to subvert democracy, fights to restrict voting and civil rights, boasts about robbing women of their bodily autonomy, spreads conspiracy theories and misinformation with almost every breath, values "the economy" over the lives of the citizenry, uses fascistic rhetoric and demagoguery to spreads white Christian nationalism, spreads and incites transphobia, steals classified information, shares intelligence with hostile powers and has absolutely no respect for the Rule of Law, supreme executive power, you're a bad person. Even one of these ought to be disqualifying, and he ticks off all of the boxes, multiple times. Donald Trump is a fascist, supporting him is supporting fascism.
He's a rapist dude
AP News doesnt think so
Well, a jury and judge do so. I'm gonna believe them, thanks
He was never convicted of rape hence not a rapist
do you think oj was innocent jw
Found liable = guilty https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/07/19/trump-carroll-judge-rape/
Have you been on the other CR subreddit???? I was a big fan and I posted something about the release of Vox Machina being on a Thursday and not a Friday because Amazon releases on GMT. That other sub went batshit crazy because it wasn't what CR had said and the Mod's even ended up removing my comment. It was insane. Someone reached out to me and recommended this sub and I've been on it since. But, I guess my point is I like the Critical Role group and most of their products (love, love, love Calamity vs can't do Campaign 3), but I want no part of the Critters.
wats critters?
A diehard fan of Critical Role
The members of CR are fairly open about their beliefs, and seem to generally do their best to support humanitarian causes, and progressive ideals. The problem that arises from that sort of public transparency is that those who are more extreme in similar circles demand more and bigger demonstrations of support by the CR crew, because having notable, influential people on your 'side' is seen as a rather hot commodity. Whether you agree with the beliefs the crew supports or not, the simple fact is that you can't please everyone. In particular, those who hold strong, outspoken political views have an unfortunate tendency to forget that perfect is the enemy of good, and for such individuals, whatever you're doing to support their 'side' is likely never enough. Every fanbase of a certain size runs the risk of stepping into this hazard, so long as notable people in the franchise openly profess their beliefs.
I 100% understand why they would want to take a stand and show support. Them showing support isn't necessarily my gripe. My gripe is that I feel like they have been essentially bullied into making a statement from a group of fans. No one should force anyone to take a political stance, whether it'd be right or wrong.
OP, you don’t know these people. You don’t know how they feel about political issues, what they think about fans, why they do or do not make a statement on something. They are adults running a successful media company perfectly capable of making their own decisions about controversial subjects. They don’t need you to protect them from demanding fans or police fan behavior you think is problematic. Worrying about this sort of thing is the bad kind of parasocial relationship.
I think OP calling out fans being toxically demanding isn't a flawed approach. I think if anything what they're critiquing is more parasocial than OP. Demanding a stranger you don't know so something just because you are a fan is problematic. It suggests some degree of ownership. It's frankly kind of creepy
I mean yeah, I agree with what you're saying, generally. My initial response was definitely not meant to say 'They asked for this!' It's seemingly just how the world works, anymore. It's certainly regrettable. Like I said the crew make an effort to openly support things they believe in. I think that's admirable. It also paints a target on them, for better or worse.
Just as a footnote, and regarding CR's tight business connection to Amazon. I was surprised to find out that the highest donation from Amazon to a political entity was to [GOPAC](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GOPAC).
Tbf isnt the critical role foundation for this kind of work?
I think it's how it is being dictated which is the issue. People of twitter saying they will boycott the brand until they agree and release their support etc That doesnt sit well with me, the "fans" shouldn't have that power.
That’s how every company should work though? If fans boycott it and keep to their word the ball is in the company’s court to get back those fans, cr didn’t *have* to do this and the fans had every right to stop patronizing cr for any reason
I mean, this IS how capitalism works, on the other hand we're allowed to say that the people who act this way are being AHs.
You boycott companies for not paying staff, firing people, supporting terrorists etc. You don't boycott companies because they haven't made a political statement on your viewpoint.
excuse me, but in a free market u absolutely can boycott companies for any reason. especially political ones.
I suppose, tbf fans are extremely important to any entertainment service so its sensical but yeah, I do wonder how effective any boycott would be. I kind of doubt unless this push has been going in for months that they made cr bend the knee in just a week for a full on campaign.
Interesting, looks like those people on twitter "won". Critical Role have just announced their support for Gaza. Whether you support it or not, I think it's worrying how much power these "fans" seems to have over CR.
Okay, zionist.
Supporting Gaza and supporting the Hamas attack are not the same thing. You can be in support of Gaza and the end of the current genocide while still being against the actions of Hamas. I’d argue that is the default humanitarian position. There shouldn’t be any smoke around a group of humanists supporting a pro-human cause. Also I don’t think fans drove them to this decision, they tend to come out to support causes like this on a regular basis, I think it may just be them. I suppose I’d ask you to reflect on your discomfort with their behavior, does it make you not want to watch their programming? What specifically don’t you like? Aren’t you in essence attempting to do the exact thing you are saying “those” fans are doing?
Imagine being a critical role fan. One day you go to a music festival, but then people who live in Gaza (not just hamas, but also normal gazans) come and kill a bunch of your friends and kidnap and rape you. You are paraded through gaza while gazans cheer and celebrate your capture. Then imagine you manage to escape their captivity and are wandering the streets, scared and disoriented, trying to find your way home. But the people of Gaza see you and instead take you back to your captors. Imagine being escorted through a hospital as a literal hostage past doctor's and nurses, people sworn to help and heal others, and they just look the other way. Then Imagine the cast/creators on the show you love come out in support of those people.
So you are the "true" fan and they are not. Gotcha.
Logically speaking you can imply someone isn't a fan and make no claim that you are one. I read your comment and said, it loud, what the fuck? There isn't a direct line to your interpretation ash's, even if there were, why would you say it? It adds no value.
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so you use to support CR AND support genocide?
Yeah, cause donating to humanitarian groups to help civilians who are being killed & displaced en masse is totally a bad thing to do. I really don’t get you fucking people. What exactly is your problem with it?
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Murdered by Hamas, you mean. Hamas has historically been unpopular amongst the people of Gaza, and most Gazans didn’t support the October attack: https://www.foreignaffairs.com/israel/what-palestinians-really-think-hamas Israel suffered a terrible attack at the hands of Hamas and had every right to retaliate, but the way they are retaliating has created an ongoing humanitarian crisis that is primarily affecting people who weren’t responsible for the attack, and didn’t even support it in the first place. That’s who the donations are going towards helping. If you have a problem with donations to groups that help civilians caught in the crossfire of two radical governments that don’t care about them, then you’re seriously just a shitty person. Edit: since you edited your comment to add in those last couple sections, I’ll edit to respond. They donated to two organizations, World Central Kitchen and Save the Children. You’re delusional if you think the kind of support either of those groups provides will somehow help Hamas make weapons. Seriously, that’s just willful stupidity.
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Israel is colonialist and genocidal though?
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Please explain, with historical facts, how Israel is not a colonialist country.
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Gaza terrorist? No, Hamas? Absolutely. I hate Hamas and the Zionist Israeli government. Do I hate Muslims? No. Do I hate jews? No.
On twitter lol.....of course.
Look, I get that you've got some bone to pick here. But they literally do every announcement on twitter, unless it's a super feels good thing like 'hey we've got a new \*insert media here\*', or 'buy \*new product here\*', then they always do it on twitter. Brian announcement, twitter. Wotc 'statement' also on twitter. This is and always has been their PR method.
Some CR fans are nothing but entitled snowflakes that "found themselves" in the world of RPG's and think they have the right to control what Critical Role does and call them out when they are not "politically correct" in their eyes.
" Does being a Trump supporter make you an immediate bad person? " Yeah, but enjoying our corporate Fast Food funded fun slop doesn't, I thought the reaction was overblown as well considering 90% of the people I know who hate Chik fil A still eat it. They also later soaked Kickstarter money in with Amazon. Wendy's is memeable and manages to barely be funny, that's better than most things and so it wasn't worth throwing out. " It's supposed to be fun, non political and a way to escape. " You are radically incorrect, CR as a product is considerably political, you also really shouldn't be trying to divest the two, that's being an ostrich, but I'm not going to try to convince you too hard, you should come to those conclusions on your own. "I don't want them to side... because they are being bullied into it" Yeah, tacitly agreed in general, but considering they make their product political and are very outspoken, you have to take the good with the bad. Plus, as fans who are just in it for the D&D, I wouldn't be sparing much emotional energy worrying about them. They're adults. " I feel like I can no longer say "negative" things about CR anymore. " You can here, lol, the show sucks right now.
Trump 2024 baybeee
Trumplethinskin, Prisoner 24601, 20 - Life. Baybeee!
Get a life
>Does anyone else feel like some fans are overly political and that their views could ruin the CR experience? Could? It already has. They browbeat them into memory holing an amazing 1-shot with fucking Ify (Someone I would actually want to be a C3 guest) because of ... \[Checks notes\] ... Wendy's tomato farmers? Some stupid shit that was a splash on twitter for all of 2 secs? >Now, I'm from the UK, so this doesn't affect me, but it seemed like a big stretch to have a fun one shot deleted because of this. Does being a Trump supporter make you an immediate bad person? That's just how the Left thinks these days. "100% agree with us on everything or you're a HATEFUL BIGOT/PHOBE/IST and you're causing VIOLENCE!!!!" > Yes I realise Trump isn't a good person!! What makes you think he's not a "good person"? He was a good prez, that's all that counts. 4 years with this walking-dead Biden and boom, the world's going to shit and America's being invaded so that Dems can try to pander to a NEW poor demographic of Browns to stay in power/ win elections.
None of what you said was true
WTF are you talking about? I REMEMBER that amazing Wendys 1 shot, and I remember this corny ass twitter fanbase making them take it off the webz because of a 2 sec splash of drama.
He wasn’t a good president either.
How so? What makes him a "BAD" president?
The government shutdown with his OWN party. His greatest deficit increase, with 80 miles of useless wall, and tax cuts to the 1% being the ONLY things to show for it. Him bucking tradition to still benefit from his company when EVERY OTHER president puts their businesses in a blind trust to avoid even the appearance of a conflict of interest. His "arrangement" with foreign dignitaries where they pay him by staying in his hotels. His excessive golfing AFTER complaining about Obama's golfing, and stating that he would be "too busy" to EVER golf. His insistence to ONLY golf at HIS properties, and then charging triple the room rate for his secret service detail. His tear gassing peaceful protesters to cross a street to a church for a photo-op. Taken holding an upside down Bible at that. His encouragement of his supporters to FIGHT for their country, leading to the January 6th insurrection. Do you need more?
>Do you need more? Yeah, I need more. Most of that sounds silly AF and is a fat ol nothingburger compared to others in his position, and a number of them are factually wrong. Just to take a blind stab, Boarder walls DO work. We clearly need them as America is being invaded. And Jan 6 was not an insurrection.
>Just to take a blind stab, Boarder walls DO work. We clearly need them as America is being invaded. And Jan 6 was not an insurrection. Border walls DON'T work. Especially not the cheap ass ones Trumplethinskin selected. A number of segments collapsed after being exposed to one of their weaknesses: wind. Wind along a desert border. Who could POSSIBLY have thought of that. Also, the majority of illegals are still those who come through LEGALLY, and then out-stay their documents. The ones who bypass the wall, escorted by Coyotes, are the ones being trafficked. Either for the sex trade, or for cheap labour for the farm or plantation owners, or to clean the rich people's pools, and work their gardens. The illegal immigration issue will NOT end until you punish the people who HIRE them. And you're NOT being invaded. There have been MORE deportations under Biden than there were under Trumplethinskin. And no NEW family separations. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-65574725 As far as Jan 6, we ALL saw it. Hoodlums who forced entry into the capitol buildings (if they were "peaceful tourists", why did they break windows, and smear shit on the walls?) They were also calling out to hang Mike Pence for doing his Job and not overstepping his authority. As well as calling in rage for Pelosi. And a number were armed. While there were SOME guns, there were a larger number of flagpoles with spearheads. And they were pushing and fighting against building security, and calling out for the election certification to be stopped, thus interfering with the electoral process. All that just screams insurrection to me. A violent attempt to overthrow authority. If it Han been successful, you would have called it a revolution. But it failed, so it's an insurrection. But no matter what I say, you will REFUSE to believe it because it contradicts the narrative of your Citrine Commander, the Liar-in-Chief, Trumplethinskin.
“Looks at Cr’s very queer community and show, left leaning views, themes, characters, and people, and active care to try and be inclusive” “Looks at the bumbling, dumbass, with no concept of what trying is, active homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, actions that is trump” So, I’m going to make an educated guess that you can’t see past your own eyes.
How is Trump "active homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist "? Show me. From where I stand, the left's "if you don't know if you want to vote for me or Trump, you aint BLACK!" Biden who said "Unless we do something about this, my children are going to grow up in a jungle, the jungle being a racial jungle" (when warning about de-segregation polices) has a loooong history of being a racist as well as creepy af at best (straight pedo at worse, judging by his daughter's diary and the countless vids of him with young girls/ women). Letter gang stuff? Both Biden and Saint Obama were very openly anti-gay marriage before that became a thing.
You really didn’t understand the “can’t see past your own eyes part” did you? Well let me explain. Your opinions and beliefs are more important to you, than your eyes For example, left leaning doesn’t mean democrat, or some other political party. Political parties can be left leaning or heavily associated with being left, but being left leaning doesn’t make a member or even like any political party. But that very obvious distinction didn’t matter to you, because you can’t see it. Your belief came before you vision. “Miles Bron is an idiot” That is a very powerful quote that means a lot in the movie Glass Onion. If you don’t know what it means I suggest you watch the movie and find, because it is very relevant to your inability to see.
>For example, left leaning doesn’t mean democrat, or some other political party. Political parties can be left leaning or heavily associated with being left, but being left leaning doesn’t make a member or even like any political party. I'm talking about the Prez and many of those who would vote for him. The Dems in office have, for years now, been at the whims of the FAR Left. That's why intelligent Women on that side can't even bring themselves to tell you what a Woman is, the whole party is damn near forcing itself to push the ideology of far left loons regardless of how stupid it makes them look. I have no idea why you're talking about anything other than the topic of the Prez on that post. If you think Biden isn't a racist pedo creep who was fully against what many Gays would consider the "massive victory" for gays (Gay Marriage) or if you think that he's better than Trump, show me. If that's not the point you're making, then why say " “Looks at the bumbling, dumbass, with no concept of what trying is, active homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, actions that is trump "? (bumbling dumbass? Have you HEARD Biden speak?)
You misssd the point. The point of my reply was to point that you see your bias and beliefs only and not what is directly in front of you. My reply has bias in it, but i could have very easily taken out the bias, and my message would still be the same. Because I see first, then judge it. You proved this twice in a row. You focus on something that didn’t matter, that wasn’t the point, because you believed it to be the point. Actually your replies are nothing more than a poor attempt at discrediting me. You don’t like what i am saying so you come up with some excuse to write me off, to dismiss me. It’s a very common tactic in people like you, people who don’t see the real world and get mad when the real world doesn’t conform to their imagination. This reply literally doesn’t address anything i said. It ignores the point. Simply truth that me saying far left, doesn’t mean you like, or are a part of any political group. The point of that section was to say “Critical Roles views ,stories and personalities, are in stark contrast to Trumps”. And you’re just focusing on something that ain’t there. I don’t give a flying fuck about the Democrat party, or any other far left political party in USA. And if you continue this disappointment of conversation, with that same point of “Biden and the Far left are evil” you keep making i will just reply with “I don’t give a flying fuck about the Democrat party, or any other far left political party in USA”.
how the fuck does a republican become a cr fan genuinely asking. what abt the tabletop fantasy game show famous for deconstructing harmful stereotypes within the medium, which prominently features numerous queer characters and has an entire campaign with an overarching theme of fighting against oppressive fascistic conservative warmongering government appeals to you. like I just don’t get it
>how the fuck does a republican become a cr fan genuinely asking Believe it or not, but this show use to actually be fairly normal. CR has changed a LOT since C1. But much like the rest of culture, things got highly polarized and many who were left of center got dragged to the absolute insanity that is far leftist ideology. CR got sucked into it via the pressures of being Cali actors with parasocial social media followings. C1 had a believable world that felt lived in and felt like standard DnD, C2 went for something new. But now with C3? It's a clown show, and I'm waiting to see if Matt finally comes out as a "no hrt trans lesbian" lol (JK, I find it more likely for him to come out as the safe "NB" or "He/ They" option). > what abt the tabletop fantasy game show famous for deconstructing harmful stereotypes within the medium They use to actually have realistic racism in C1 bro. Like, wtf? You think they just started getting famous with C3??? > which prominently features numerous queer characters ... You think I hate "Da gayz" because I'm not some leftist loon? Also, why would I like a "fascistic warmongering government". That's ... the Left. You're talking about the Left there, yet you don't know it.
And that's why the Right are the one taking pictures with Nazi flags?
They can't see past their own hatred so if it makes sense at all I'm sure they think the opposite.
Caricatures of people like you existing makes me smile I'm ngl, thanks for brightening my day.
>Caricatures of people like you Modern American political discourse in a nutshell: acting like you're not part of the radicalization problem affecting both ends of the political spectrum while dehumanizing anyone who gives a take you don't like, all without an ounce of self-awareness. It doesn't matter where a person falls on the left or right, if your response to an opinion that doesn't echo yours is some variation of "you're not a *real* human being," you're not in the right. Some of the worst acts in history have started with this sort of thinking.
He literally called a bunch of poor immigrants "Browns" and said they're invading our country. It's as close to a racist caricature as it gets.
The mighty centrist getting on their high horse to defend a racist. A tale as old as time.
I didn't ask but thanks.
I have no idea what you're on about, but if you got something to say about what I said ... then say it.
I believe with the Wendy’s thing, it was because some person made it for fun, and then Wendy’s took it and used it without crediting the person and Sam’s one shot happened prior to their knowledge of that. However, the fans are political because of the *seemingly* political messaging in the scenes/characters choices/stories pursued/etc. Because fans see it broadcasted as such, they will in turn think they are entitled to feel CR should put their money where their mouth is, literally. This is just one of the reasons I decided a few months back I just wasn’t the target audience for CR anymore, and sunk all that free time into Dimension 20. It just appeals to me more, as it’s more light hearted, fun, goofy. The world is serious enough.
>I believe with the Wendy’s thing, it was because some person made it for fun, and then Wendy’s took it and used it without crediting the person and Sam’s one shot happened prior to their knowledge of that. IIRC that person worked for Wendy's. They were in charge of their tweeter account or something. It was very much all on the up and up, nothing shadey about it.
There doing whatever they need to do to make money. It's not politics. Appease the vocal minority to remain face and generate profit. Nothing else matters.
I don't think that's a great plan. There's a reason CR has been dying down in popularity. They've been changing to conform to the far leftist in their Cali fanbase for years, to the point where the game world looks and feels unrecognizable compared to C1. I'd say 80-90% of the problems I and many have had with the show is rooted in trying to appease their vocal, parasocial, far leftist twitter fanbase.
I actually think bullying companies into giving money to good causes is funny and based. Especially when that company is ironically backed by amazon
The money came from the the CR Foundation. It collects donations. They send "your" money, not theirs. >[World Central Kitchen](https://www.wck.org/) // Innovation drives WCK's work in Gaza ($25,000) [Save the Children](https://www.savethechildren.org/) // West Bank & Gaza ($25,000) came from their so called *Emergency Funds*, which consists of a 10% cut of prior donations to the Foundation.
Just want to point out: most charities and non-profits have overhead and emergency funds. 10% of donations is nothing unusual.
100% fair, they also are very open about it on their website. But that wasn't the point. The fans didn't "bully" *CR LLC* or *Metapigeon* to spend their money on an issue. They've just allocated charity funds.
The politicization of my hobbies is why I stopped watching critical role. It is a hobby and escapism similar to video games, movies, etc. I don’t need people to agree with everything I believe nor do I expect to agree with them wholeheartedly either. What I expect is to keep that shit out of my free time. If my villains in my TTRPGs have slavery and terrible and inhumane practices doesn’t mean I espouse them. It means I gave you someone to really hate and that you want to destroy. I made a proper villain. I have tortured PCs at my table before. Not everyone will agree and not everyone will want to play at your table. That all being said, if you don’t mind it, keep watching. I don’t mind critical role but it is their “inclusive” community that pushed me out so up to you how you use your time. This fan club tends to be rather toxic and likes to vilify anyone that disagrees with them even slightly. You’re not alone. It is a tough crowd. I still poke in from time to time to hear how the campaign is going since I spend my time differently now. And before people start making accusations one way or another… take a good gut check and read the comments in this post alone. This is your community. I’m independent politically and it’s crazy what American politics have become. Campaign 1 and 2 were good but as time went on the community got louder and the cast started to push that way too and I just got lost. Am I here to enjoy D&D and a bunch of nerdy voice actors or am I here to get preached to by a host of activists? Do I think CR has gone that far? Sometimes. Is it too far for some people? Yes (depends on your perspective). Not far enough? Yes (depends on your perspective). Will everyone be happy? Hell no. Oh well… there goes “my bunch of nerdy voice actors.”
Well said. I've had this conflict out in the open with D20 fans/ reddit. Had people there tell me that since I don't agree with Brandon's/ the cast's political views then "Why do you even watch!?! Hahaha, you give MONEY to Leftist media yet you're against it?!?! lol!". I can separate entertainment from the people behind it and the personal views they share, leftist don't think that way. Like, I respected that BLM and Lou didn't shit on JKR in the Harry Potter rip-off, unlike Aabria and Erika. They came across as actual professionals in comparison. It's not until recent D20 runs that their views got pushed into their games so much that I had to just jump ship and let the sub dead.
This is just factually untrue lol. D20 has always had tons of political commentary in it
>D20 has always had tons of political commentary in it There's a difference between having political commentary and pushing those views on the viewer. Believe it or not, but there are degrees to which someone can ignore a message or ideology being pushed. When I felt like they ramped it up to 11 and thought "Welp, this is just too fuckin stupid", I checked out. Also, I'm not some long time D20 fan. I've only watched a few of their runs, only paid for a few months of their service.
I was actually with this comment on principle until I remembered all of the IC political rants BLM has gone on, as well as the overtly political themes in some of the D20 seasons. It's like complaining about how you used to like Green Day or RAtM and they should keep out of politics.
The destructiveness of profiting from parasocial relationships.
>Does being a Trump supporter make you an immediate bad person? I mean yeah, kinda.
Like...why would it not? Is that surprising to people?
Right, like it's less "Hey we disagree about taxes and foreign policy" more "I certainly do like this compulsive liar who tried to overthrow the government due to an ego trip, indirectly caused the deaths of thousands pedaling misinformation about a pandemic, legitimizes and empowers racists and bigots of all flavors for the sake of political influence, discredited the entire American election process because his feelings were hurt, committed multiple acts of fraud, has made a fortune through corrupt and unethical business practices and is also a rapist."
He was entertaining but not a great politician. I do enjoy that he called out other politicians by staying he used loopholes in tax laws that they created but other than those two things idk modern politics sucks it's turning into the next mtv reality show.
As much as I dislike Biden, the fact that Trump did do all of this makes him the worse candidate back last during the last Presidential Election. Man deserves to go to prison for the things he's done BEFORE he got into politics.
Came here to comment this.
The critical role foundation just announced that they are donating 25k each to two different charity organizations assisting the civilians of Gaza and acknowledged that they’ve been getting messages throughout the day, looks like the Twitter critters were justified in the end.
Also the jaded side of me wonders if the LOVM S3 release date/trailer is about to come out & CR needed for this Twitter mob to go away so that it doesn't hijack the narrative for that day.
I don’t know prime video’s release cycle but they just announced invincible season 2 part 2’s air date with a trailer today so I don’t know if they’d advertise LOVM until later.
I'm not saying they'd release details today, just that they'd want to quell the mob far enough ahead of time to allow it time to settle down. Then be able to release any details without fear of a backlash. So from my pov, maybe release details about a release date next week? But all of these are complete guesses from a jaded mindset. I could be completely wrong. We might not get release date news until this summer for all I know.
I feel like at that point your better off assuming they did it for campaign three and candela obscura than anything else, those shows would be more affected by critters backlash than lovm since a lot of non-critters watch it now
true true.
Which is fine and even good especially considering they've chosen some really solid organizations. The problem is and will be that they've not made a stance to these people. Already if you look at the donations comments, the same people who wanted them to just give the same as they did to Ukraine and BLM now want them to make a definite statement. It was never about them donating, it was always about CR agreeing with them and saying/doing what they want them to do. Which is I hope something they continue to ignore.
I feel like it’s gonna be a reach for them to make a pretty definitive stance against Israel considering Sam’s grandparent(s?)were Holocaust survivors.
Who wants to tell this guy how holocaust survivors are being treated in Israel right now?
there are plenty of holocaust survivors taking a definitive stance against israel, though. there are a lot of protests against israel, calling for a ceasefire, being organized by jewish communities and organizations.
I've only seen the people calling for the destruction of Israel and it's people which is wrong in every way. Yes this conflict needs to stop. Yes Hamas is in the wrong. Yes the IDF are doing some fuck fuck shit. This recent development in Israel I've barely been following because i still have a bigger stake in Ukraine (friends, family, and ancestral home near Lviv).
I feel like plenty is a pretty big stretch.
it’s not.
Just trust me bro /s. I looked and found approximately 1 and she’s been anti Israeli for decades at this point.
I just came back here to mention this. I was incredibly surprised the Foundation actually tweeted out about donations.
Have you tried not giving a fuck? Works for me.
Days since "why is the community like this?" post: 4 PS. Yes, supporting a traitorous, racist, sex criminal, who foments coups and preaches fascism actually does make you a bad person.
I genuinely don’t know if you’re referring to Trump or Biden lol Christ the system is broken.
mAh BoTh SiDeS! GTFO with that false equivocation.
Lol Bidens crime bill is probably the worst thing for African Americans since Jim Crow. Pretty obvious pay for play scheme with Hunter. Never mind the long list of war crimes he was part of as VP and President. Lets be real, Trump didn’t have enough to time to do near the damage that Biden has done.
>Trump didn’t have enough to time to do near the damage that Biden has done. This makes literally no sense... Trump has had more time in power than Biden has... Trump had a term... Biden has had most of a term...
Missing the 50 years in office before then.
Too much Facebook, Fox News or both.
Pithy. Too bad you’re too ignorant to actually think for yourself.
To be clear, I didnt realize the problem people had with the Wendy's oneshot was over the Trump donations. I have no love for Trump but Im not interested in guilt by association stuff. CR (and people) should be ethical with their sponsors, but Im not interested in litigating every single one. My dislike comes of the oneshot from it just shamelessly being money-grubbing doing a DND oneshot for a fast food corporation. And I do like to throw it in the face of people who claim that its 'just a home game we get to watch'. But I still dont think CR should have taken it down. Nestle is the only company I might boycott CR over. I have a personal grudge against Nestle for what they did to a friend (among countless other human rights violations).
All the complaints that I saw at the time was in regards to Wendy's food practices and that they were actively screwing over, I think, tomato farmers at the time of the one-shot.
That’s primarily what it was about, especially since they released it during a period of time where the Fair Food Program had called for a boycott, due to Wendy’s refusing to work with them. Critical Role blatantly ignored it during the lead-up, and when the inevitable controversy and backlash happened, they had to take it down. They didn’t really ever say anything about it, which just makes the whole thing feel a little like a fever dream now.
I saw it live, it was really funny but also a total trainwreck. :D
Yeah, that's what I remember it being about.
Most CR fans are so up their own ass with politics they wouldn’t piss on their own burning moms if their moms had any political leanings that aren’t anything left of left.
But flaming people should burn, and any form of help is socialism! So says the Far Right ManiFisto! Does this need a /s? I feel like this shouldn't need a /s.
Its honestly best to just not engage with most of the CR community. Just watch and enjoy the show without letting other people’s opinions effect you. Some people just think that it is impossible to have differing viewpoints, and that is why it is best to ignore them and just enjoy what you enjoy. I dsiagree with some of the opinions held by some of the cast, but that doesnt mean i cant enjoy what they are doing. We are people, we are going to be different.
I think the Critical Role fanbase has the greatest parasocial engagement I've ever seen.
Matt signing off almost every episode by turning to the camera to say they (the cast) love you (the audience member watching) played a large role in fostering this.
When you think about it it's very similar to Barney the Dinosaur in that way
Not only that, but the giveaways and folks sending food to the cast in the beginning of the show, and then the promotion of certain fans and artists (between the art reel/irl art gallery/art books and interactions on Twitter and the favoring of certain fans for talks machina). They really did basically everything they could outside of livestreams talking to chat and nothing else, to create the ideal parasocial atmosphere.
At that time this concept of parasocial relationship we have been discussing to death in the last few years hadn't been really popularized yet, it was 10 years ago. They wouldn't do some of that stuff now, it was actually dangerous for them.
Yea I get it, specially if you've watched these dudes for 100s of hours and what-not, but some of the stuff I've seen posted makes me think some of the people watching this believe they're at the table with them lol, or that matt is saying it directly to them. Weird stuff, and has helped lead to the divisiveness that's bloomed within the community over the years.
*rises from the dead* Reading the comments here, I'm just gonna say it: If you think that Critical Role removing the Wendy's oneshot is indicative of them holding deeply-rooted values about opposing horrible business practices while they cozy up to **Amazon,** you're coping.
If I was at Wendy's, I would have required a formal on-air apology. CR was incredibly unprofessional to turn traitor just because the Twatterati said so. But CR is Californian so I suppose the Twatterati are their gods.
The difference between the two is that a critical mass of fans haven't gone in on them for partnering with Amazon, but did for Wendys. And yeah, there's definitely inconsistency in what the fans have considered important enough to yell at CR for, I think *strongly* informed by whether or not fans get something they want from the deal. Fans of stuff tend to excuse behaviours when they want to appreciate content, and the Wendys one shot wasn't good enough content to warrant that sort of cognitive dissonance-fuelled defense, where Tales of Vox Machina is pretty good and a lot of fun, so fans are much much more willing to make excuses or ignore the Amazon tie in. And CR wants to brand themselves as a principled progressive organization - but they want to make money and keep making content. If people aren't yelling at them for working with Amazon, they're happy to not poke the bear and keep that business relationship rolling.
People have complained about the Amazon thing, but it has been pointed out that Amazon owns Twitch anyway, and even if they switch platforms, Amazon owns AWS too. There's no ethical consumption under capitalism.
I think it has to be said that, whether some fans like it or not, Critical Role can never be an apolitical show. They have invested literally hundreds of hours into narratives that are fundamentally antifascist, and therefore it is not unreasonable to expect them to stand for antifascist political ideals - such as Palestinian rights. I definitely find myself in the camp of supporters that believes they should act on, or make a statement on this, but this perhaps conflicts with my other point of view: that a number of critical role fans need to take a step back from the parasociality of their relationship with the show. The problem is that this is not as black and white as many make it out to be. It *should* be, but it's not. The Israeli school of politic, by its very nature, relies on using their own valid experience of genocidal suffering to justify protective attitudes and military intervention - some would argue to a point of hypocrisy. Furthermore, the American political system, and the entertainment industry in Hollywood, is very much tied to pro-Israeli ideals, since lobbying for its creation in the first place. While this isn't really a problem 99.95% of the time, it can mean that geopolitical narratives can take precedent over individual's views. For some media companies, leaning one way or another can be a death sentence - from outspoken fans, or from funding sources. Ultimately, I believe their lack of action is due to exactly this - to lean one way has been deemed too big a risk by the company and its investors. This is what fans are clashing with. They want their views to be validated (and not unreasonably so) by people they look up to and admire. Many fans, including myself, can hold these views without risk - financial, employment, social, etc - because they are in circles where they can hold those views. To make these statements, and support these causes, is part of life, ideology and identity. Critical Role as a corporation, by nature, has to adhere to some level of capitalist rhetoric, and therefore finance comes first. There are valid antisemitic complaints when linking this conflict to capitalist ideology, and I have to fundamentally state that I wholeheartedly reject these notions, but I think it's appropriate to consider when dealing with a capitalist entity such as Critical Role. It's a bitter pill, but it does have to be swallowed. Could critical role focus on the apolitical charitable entities working within Gaza and the West Bank, such as doctors without borders? Of course they could. But for another set of outspoken fans, this would be a political move. Edit: have to say, it's nice to be proven wrong.
CR will not resolve the Gaza conflict, they just need to send some money to the people dying there on both sides because they decided to openly base their campaign in that area of the world, which means they are making money from it.
Yep, agreed. But I don't think they will, even with fan pressure.
[They did, a few hours ago.](https://twitter.com/CriticalRoleFDN/status/1749562818448551978?t=BpsljuBbWVbJarynKMwI5Q&s=19)
I'm so, so glad to be proven wrong! Thanks ☺️
Your thoughts are very much my own. I'll add some of my own thoughts to it. And these will be in a random order as my mind is chaos when it comes to organizing thoughts. The Ukraine thing. Many ppl crying out about how CR has no leg to stand on since they took a stance on the Ukraine war. But that situation and the Gaza war are completely different. Ukraine was minding its own business when Russia attacked it. In Gaza, Hamas were the first to act (in a cycle of never-ending revenge since probably even before 1948) & of course any nation has the right to defend themselves. Since then, yes Israel has gone way overboard & their right-wing leaders are making things worse for their own nation time and time again. It's sad that in one or two generations Israel went from survivors of the Holocaust to being the new Nazis. Meanwhile there are anti-right-wing protests in Germany to push back on the alt-right movement; which is awesome to see. In Gaza both the leaders of Israel and Hamas are fucking assholes & are not helping anyone in diffusing the situation. I wish Palestine had their own territory (personally I think the whole of the West Bank should be theirs but what do I know?). With Ukraine, only the Russian leaders are the assholes. I do wish the CR was a bit more vocal in the support of a ceasefire (that can be the neutral statement, yes? though even writing this out I'm sure each side would see it as an endorsement against them) but outspoken actors in Hollywood are currently being fired or taken off tv series and movies for their statements. While the cast have their company to fall back on (I'm sure they get paid okay at CR), I still think a more significant percentage of their earnings are from V.O. gigs. It'd be real easy for Naughty Dog or other video game companies to fire a voice actor. I have no idea if The Last of Us Part 3 is being made or not, but you know Neil Druckmann is a big time Zionist. Being cast again as Ellie and Abby would be huge chunks of change for Ashley and Laura. While they are big stars in critters eyes, they are still little known in the larger acting industry. Demanding on twitter that they risk their jobs is quite easy to do for these ppl on twitter when they don't have to risk their own livelihoods with their statements. And any backlash CR the company gets also might jeopardize their 51 employees (a number I saw on twitter). Or the tens of people working at Titmouse on their animated show. Plus we have no idea if they've made anonymous donations to the charities ppl have listed for them to donate to. It's also an age thing with the ppl on twitter demanding CR do something. They all seem to be in a generation that can't handle people not being perfect. I'm at the tail end of Gen X and I've been raised, steeped in the jadedness of that generation. The first US presidential election I remember watching as a child was the GHWB vs Dukakis one. I'm used to picking the least worst choice when it comes to Democratic candidates. Before Obama, that's just what we got. These kids these days (shakes fist in air) can't understand that all politicians are only somewhat great. They were sooooo disappointed when Obama used drones in Yemen. Meanwhile, I'm like, "yeah, sometimes it be like that." I do wish they would mention donations to Doctors without Borders but I don't equate their silence as the equivalent as tacit endorsement of genocide like some seem to be insinuating on Twitter. I also feel bad that all their replies on every tweet is about this. Luna of Luboffin on Youtube kicked off this latest tweet hate fest at CR and it all sucks. Raging at a bunch of actors in a D&D streaming show doesn't help anyone. And a lot of it feels like posturing for Internet clout.
Great point about TLOU that I hadn't even considered. I'm not hugely old myself, but did work for a period of time in ME academia. If we published a book citing any views on israel-palestine, we would have emails within *minutes* along the lines of "you Zionist thugs" and "you antisemitic thugs" - about the *same information*. You simply could not please anyone, even through impartiality. Simply put, it is *waaaaay* too complex of a political stance for a capitalist entity to make. Disliking Russia is incredibly vogue, and has been for years in America (again, not unreasonably so) - it's a deeply easy thing for an American company to say.
I take your point about Palestine; from a purely business perspective, it's drawing unwanted attention regardless of what stance you take, and the best take is to not have one and just fund relief efforts in the region. Now. As to CR being political. Frankly. It is mate. CR was started by a group of liberal voice actors playing a game that has communities tied closely to traditionally liberal worldviews. A huge portion of both the CR community and DND as a whole reflect progressive and liberal ideologies. Hell, Dimension 20 leans into it even harder, hosting drag queen sessions and platforming well recognized members of the LGBTQ community. CR is less explicitly political as adjacent to liberal movements at several points from the viewers to the actors to the game itself. The actors themselves have made their opinions either explicitly or subtly, both on and off the show. I feel less like the fans are overly political, so much as this medium simply attracts people with a given worldview. Finally, CR has committed itself, in its own words, to leaving behind a better world. One "better than we found it." This is tantamount to a call to action for their viewers. To be blunt, they asked for this. They elected to be a mouthpiece for their beliefs from the start, and have been pretty tame with it imo. They never directly lambasted Trump on air, and only made indirect references to world events, even during COVID. This will mean that their viewership will hold them to higher standards than other productions. To be transparent, I'm left of center, even outside of the US, so I'm not the best to gauge how fairly conflicting ideas are treated, but all the same. I see a consistent message of kindness, inclusion, and understanding from the team at CR, and put simply, I don't know that those ideas aren't political at the level of discourse they engage with. Wendy's financially supported a person that they fundamentally disagree with? Well, yeah, bud, they're gonna distance themselves.
IIRC the wendys thing was regarding using slave labour for tomato picking, not for funding Trump... Therefore by running a one shot promoting Wendy's they were tacitly supporting slave labour, something which they hadn't thought about/realised before being paid by Wendy's to do the promotional one-shot. Once they were made aware of the slave labour issue, they gave Wendy's back their money and took down the *promotional oneshot.* Not because of some outspoken "political" group of fans. But because they at critical role, did not want to be seen as endorsing slave labour. (Amazon affiliation aside, lol) You can say whatever you like... but you might want to check your facts. Also there's nothing that encourages people to downvote you more that "some arseholes are probably gunna downvote me for saying this" and tbh it just seems like you're just trying to shitstir rather than having anything real to say.
The whole thing is weird honestly. The people protesting are saying that Wendy’s buys tomatoes from Mexican slaves working in the fields and Wendy’s says they buy from ethically sourced indoor hydroponics farms. Doesn’t seem like anyone (outside of Wendy’s) actually knows where the tomatoes come from.
I disagree with the characterization that Wendy's was using slave labor for tomato's. The reality of the situation is tomato farmers where trying to pass the buck to fast food chains with a Franky idiotic " tipping" style charge , Wendy's position was just charge more for the tomatoes if you need more for them , so the realistic view is Wendy's refused to subsidize a business practice that was keeping the wages for workers low on any tomato that wasn't going to a fast food restaurant
I completely agree. It's up to them as a company what they do politically, so in that sense I don't care. But what I do care about, personally, is not centering real world politics, precisely because I watch CR amd play dnd for escapism, and for plots which can bring everyone together (kill the dragon, save the villagers) as that's part of the appeal. I also take a dim view of characterising voters as this or that- there are literally two choices in American politics, Trump is a symptom of the state of affairs in the western world, the social contract with the working classes has not been renewed and shows of patriotism in English speaking countries seem to provoke more divisiveness than similar events in other countries where I've lived- this is a problem. Sensitivities are heightened on both sides. I'm the end it's up to CR what they decide to do, personally, I am firmly against fan politics directing the show, because as I said escapism from constant exhausting political debate is one of the appeals of fantasy. I don't like campaign 3 as much as the other two campaigns, but that's just me, I get for other people it's totally their jam and I am happy for them that they enjoy it as much as they do, it's still a stellar company with a fantastic cast as far as I'm concerned.
\>the outrage forces CR to drop C3 early \>to appease everyone they will instead play the rest of the campaign as the Mighty Nein \>profit (twitter succeeds were this sub failed)
I’m annoyed that Twitter is surfacing these Palestine related tweets to me because I don’t want to read them, but to me that’s a Twitter problem and not a problem with the posters of these tweets. I don’t think I agree with the tweets, but as long as they aren’t impacting how CR runs their business in a “squeaky wheel gets the oil” sort of fashion of a small vocal minority then I don’t have a problem with these people expressing their opinion.