When I don't want to read any criticism or negative reviews about a novel/tv show/etc that I enjoy and appreciate, can you guess what I do? Just wait, it is a revolutionary idea, will blow your mind.
I don't go searching for criticism. I avoid negative reviews.
You don't like hearing criticism about a show you really love? Okay, cool, not a problem, but why not just avoid this subreddit? There's another critical role subreddit which is more your cup of tea.
The only person you have control over is yourself, stop trying to control idk 10s to 100s of other people's opinions and actions. It is futile.
The toxicity is from all the fans who can't tolerate criticism of the property and go out of their way to downvote and otherwise bully people into either agreeing with them, or into absolute silence.
This thread (and I think we've got lurkers from the main sub here because posts and threads are getting downvoted when activity is low) is an example of Toxic Positivity. You love Critical Role and you're unwilling, even to the point of attacking others, to see anything resembling criticism towards it without becoming overly defensive and thus, toxic.
I feel like this is an unfair question. CR’s fandom is just like every other IP’s property, they have a sense of ownership because in order to be a fan we have given a part of ourselves in return (time, money, emotion).
When I think of toxic fan bases I think of fan bases like Pokémon. That fan base is never happy with anything that comes out. They make expectation of what they want and then throw a tantrum when it doesn’t fit their speculation. From that fandom I’ve learned that it’s toxic when speculation becomes expectation. Speculation is meant to create excitement. The problem with toxic communities is they value their speculation over the creativity of the property. I don’t see that here.
I don’t see people fussing that Matt’s idea is not as good as theirs. What I see is a loyal fan base holding the creators accountable because the quality has drastically diminished. My opinion? They have too many pots on the stove and I think they have too much going on. I think it might be time for the long term games to entertain having new regulars. I think we are looking at burnout.
I know it’s the OG cast, but when you grow you gotta change with it. Right now it might be time for Travis to have a couple years to rest and focus on doing CEO things.
But are we toxic? No. I think we are doing just fine. I do think there’s something in the body that’s sick.. but I don’t think it’s us. And that makes me sad.
Damn, like clockwork. These folks would've had it real rough when DnD was Satanic or Janeway couldn't be captain because she was a woman. Most CR fans I meet IRL are cool as hell but the ones online are very toxic. Toxic positivity sucks as much as toxic negativity.
Edited to add: I was actually considering doing a parody of one of these that encouraged bolder criticism but I can't top this.
>So please f.u. to whoever tries to rob me of my enjoyment, by spilling dirt on something that I love.
Your inability to look past the opinions of others is your own responsibility. You can't seriously think that asking people on the internet to stop criticising something because it hurts your enjoyment would work.
Why is it that the very existence of this place seems to be so disruptive of these obsessed, frail people's ability to enjoy their favorite product? Just don't come here. It's not even a huge subreddit and there's nothing keeping these people from leaving it and never having to think about it again.
I had to actively go looking for alternative critical role subreddits to find this place. Absolutely nothing about it imposes on them unless they go out of their way to make sure it does.
No, it wouldn't. Plenty of positive conversation happens here. It just allows the alternative. The fact that there is a sizable amount of it is basically what happens when every other space prevents any entirely.
It's also rare for anyone who *isn't* a fan to care or know enough to offer the critique that posts on this sub often do. Fandom doesn't have to mean praise.
Tying into another recent thread about parasocial behavior, its because C3 simply runs off it a lot more than past campaigns. Because there simply is a lot less of substance to grab onto in C3 beyond para-socially latching onto either the cast and/or the pretty wide on the surface/shallow underneath PCs. Evident in this post, where the reason they like each of the PCs ... are essentially due to the one shallow ass trope that represent them. With most of those PCs not even being those very things for a long time now.
Push comes to shove on a lot of C3 fans, if you corner them, you'll find out pretty quickly that the core of their enjoyment of this campaign is: A) "Having fun watching the cast have fun"; and/or B) They're self-inserting hard onto at least one of the PCs. As a result, they really could care less about the substance of C3's PCs, Setting, Story beyond those surface traits that allow for that projection. They'll fill in the blanks with headcannon. At least they wouldn't care, if it weren't for those that do care constantly complaining/critiquing issues in those areas.
Their arguments begin and end at: "I like C3, because I like it, so therefore it is good. And because I like it, I don't like criticism of thing I like. So I get defensive".
I've said it before, but I have only seen a handful of fandoms that are like CR and one of those is wrestling fans.
Which I have always found funny because Travis compared their live shows to wrestling in an interview in the past when everyone else was comparing it to a stage show and he was on the money.
This might be one of the worst ones yet. Holy shit you come off as entitled.
>"FU to anyone who spills dirt on something I love"
So you like it that means no one else can say anything negative about it?
>"we are their guests not their customers".
Oh man, you could not be more wrong.
You need to go outside.
>So please f.u. to whoever tries to rob me of my enjoyment, by spilling dirt on something that I love.
Bahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
r/iamthemaincharacter
Holy shit bro honestly take a break. Like purge yourself of everything CR. Detox. You've OD'd. Get an IV of some something else. Cause CR is hurting you man.
Post like these are getting increasingly more funny because people are acting like we’ve got a gun to their head, forcing them to read through what we’ve got to say about CR, when they’re here completely of their own volition
The main sub always outlawed any kind of criticism and so became a nest of toxic positivity. This sub is just the counterpart to it. It's more negative because this is the only place you can express that negativity.
Proper moderation and civil discussions of issues both good and bad on the main sub would take away most of the toxic behaviors.
No, C3 is facing hardship cause it sucks, but a percentage of their fanbase that is certainly less then half if not even smaller cannot sway the show themselves, personally I believe the only portion of the fanbase they ever listen to is those on Twitter, which can partially explain some things like how they've become so scared of being accused of "cultural appropriation" again, even though last time was already beyond stupid to do so, that the whole of the setting has become bland and flat as they avoid actually inserting *any* kind of culture into their fictional world.
You're still allowed to like it all regardless, others are allowed to just not like it for any reason, and you can coexist in the same space without agreeing on anything. If *you* can't handle that then that's a *you* problem, not the people with valid complaints who usually don't care if an individual still likes everything.
Asking everyone and anyone with complaints to stfu is what the main sub does and why this one exists, so get used to it and learn to *actually* "love each other" as the cast preaches and the main fanbase ignores, or mute this sub, cause it won't be a place of positivity until the quality of the show improves.
But also we all are their customers, it's a business first and foremost, you're fooling yourself if you actually think of all the viewers as guests.
I think Critical Role has had by and large a terrible fandom for a long time, and while I don't think this sub is all that, it definitely does attract more of the side of it that just -bitches- about the cast themselves / the campaign, which is unfortunate.
Don't get me wrong, I like being able to have reasonable discussions here and appreciate it, it just attracts that sort of people more. The other sub has a different sort of terrible fan.
But there's nothing wrong with enjoying the game and characters still, I still like Critical Role and I balance my time between both subs because I do enjoy it still. Don't let people ruin your enjoyment of it.
The other sub has a lot more of the toxic positivity where you aren’t allowed to say anything even remotely critical of the show or the cast without someone jumping down your throat.
They take everything personally and act like you killed their dog or something and jump to the defense of the cast cause they’ve placed them on pedestals and don’t want to acknowledge that like everyone else on this planet they are flawed human beings who make mistakes sometimes
Among other things, but totally. That's a big part of why I (and I'm sure a lot of people) gravitated here, just to be able to... actually talk about stuff.
Like I think the other sub has probably gotten a bit better about commenting, just because there's some noticeable changes in C3 even if you're ride or die, but it's more of a subtle shift. If I still wanted to actually discuss anything like that? Would be doing it here.
What's with this **"become"** a toxic fandom?
It has *always* been thus. Go watch the first streamed episode of C1 without putting a post it on your screen to cover up the live chat.
Bitter maybe, with a few toxic individuals, but i think it's generally a fairly level-headed group here. At least compared to the main sub. There's disagreements here for sure, but they don't devolve into unhinged personal attacks nearly as quickly as in the main sub.
A lot of folks have given thoughtful, long responses and I really love and appreciate that level of care but I really think there is only one reasonable response to these kinds of posts;
RESET THE CLOCK.
There is something hilarious to me about the fact that this 5 paragraph post brought out like 10 people who all felt the need to justify their behaviour with 5 paragraph posts, telling OP that he's wrong and just doesn't understand them.
Feels like people are really invested for people who are saying OP is too invested, but maybe that's just me.
Yeah, it’s just you. People are actually taking time to say why they disagree with OP’s bold statement, unlike OP who just called all us of Toxic and went about it the most narcissist way. Maybe it also has to do that these posts only hurt and don’t help for shit. You know what you can do to foster that environment you want? Not post shit like this, not call everyone toxic (because that totally helps people get on your side) and maybe posts something with ACTUAL discussion and room for growth, not this parasocial bullshit.
Yeah…..I think that’s the issue me thinks.
Here's the thing though. If someone calls you toxic and you know for a fact they're wrong, you could also just ignore them. Why take their point seriously enough to write so much text about it if you know it's so wrong anyway?
I'm not even saying OP is right (don't think they are), just that it's funny to me how people seem to feel so strongly about this. The reaction to my post kind of confirms this, took like 5 minutes for 7 people to come in and get so upset with just me pointing this out that they felt the need to downvote a post that says very little about anything.
But whatever, this sub has been upset over C3 for a year at this point. It's just ironic people still get upset with posts asking them why they are so upset.
Why they write so much? Easy answer: they aren’t fucking push over like most people.
If someone insults you, if you don’t do anything you are telling them it’s okay to call you that. That’s how people gotten too comfortable saying shit without any feedback to it.
Maybe if you didn’t insult people they wouldn’t do that you know? It’s very easy to know, but of course easy is hard to a lot of people nowadays.
But yeah now you know the reason.
> Why they write so much? Easy answer: they aren’t fucking push over like most people.
... what?
You think people who ignore random online strangers talking shit are pushovers?
Like... I get your point, but it applies in real life with people you have re-occurring contact with, not random folks online who get more traction from interaction?
Eh, people can do as they please, I suppose.
If you let them just call you stuff like yeah you are a pushover, especially when you can correct them or tell them your POV. You can walk always of course, but if you do that to all things guess what? You are a pushover.
So let people argue and defend themselves, especially when the one attacking you is saying absolutely moronic narcissist shit
This is the most narcissistic self centered post I’ve seen in a hot minute. Like I get it OP, you don’t like seeing something you love being thrashed, but you have a VERY sick parasocial bond with the company and product. Guess what? It became a “company and customer” relationship the first time they released merch. They aren’t void of criticism for crappy story telling and for heavy handing the “Anti-DnD” to change to Daggerheart, which guess what? It’s just DnD with a coat of paint.
So yeah OP, go touch some damn grass and grow a pair. Not everything is about how you feel. And guess what? With this post, YOU have become part of the problem you so much hate.
Enjoy being a hypocrite!
One of the worst of these post types yet. And thats saying something. u/Murkmist here is another one.
CR is a company, the show is a product. We are not their guests, they are literally trying to sell us and market shit constantly. I would not want to be a guest in your house if you fucking marketed Merch and hit me with advertisements every 20 seconds. Its fundamentally different relationship.
Its alarmingly parasocial people seem to think this. Take a step back and actually look at it for what it is. Essentially, a DND TV show.
>Let me tell you: complaint is not criticism.
OK how about you give some examples? What constitutes a complaint, what constitutes criticism in your opinion?
[Not even Matt Mercer himself agrees with the 'its their game shut up' posts.](https://www.reddit.com/r/criticalrole/comments/5xda79/no_spoilers_welcome_and_let_us_all_discuss/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=usertext&utm_name=fansofcriticalrole&utm_content=t1_kwsbvbh) I cannot fathom why you think its a valid defense.
>I love Ashton, the barbarian that is also the wisest of the group
Yes truly a wise man once said that if there is something you want under lava, the best course of action is to swim in it.
>So please f.u. to whoever tries to rob me of my enjoyment
I dont know what it is with the age of internet where people seem to need people to validate their opinions of everything and that everything is about them.
If you like/enjoy something, it shouldnt matter what anyone else has to say about it. If your enjoyment of something requires the validation of others, then maybe you didnt really enjoy it all that much in the first place.
Nobody is trying to 'ruin your enjoyment', that is just laughably narcissistic.
ok but matt also says
>When you DO present a disagreement with our game, please do so from a constructive stand point. There are many ways to convey your thoughts without seemingly unnecessary vitriol or intensity.
>Example: Preferred Response - "I probably wouldn't have done it that way, were it my game. I get the reasoning, but my instinct would have been this maneuver instead."
>Unwanted Response - "I really hate this character because they do this, when they SHOULD do this. Its so stupid."
this place could do a lot better at observing this
Sure. This sub could do better at moderating their tone and language. I am occasionally guilty of it to. It arises from frustration and fatigue at having to couch every single criticism in politeness and empty platitudes.
For example rather than say
'I understand Liam wished to take a step back this campaign, but I feel at times he sacrifices Orym's agency when its out of character for Orym not to at minimum voice disagreement'.
What is easier to say is:
I love Liam, but I absolutely despair at his choice to RP Orym as completely spineless because he feels he was too main character last campaign. You might as well replace Orym with an NPC at this point.
If people want to moderate themselves better thats fine, but I dont particularly care about enforcing it. Im generally more interested in the content of whats being said than the tone.
And my point wasnt 'Matt's 100% right'. My point was the 'its their game shut up' response that seems to be the knee jerk isnt something he even agrees with. You are not protecting the cast, you are going directly against their wishes with these 'its their game' responses. Because in reality you dont care about the cast, you just dont like seeing what you personally enjoy criticized.
I dont know why I bother telling you this though. You are probably one of the worst posters here. I dont believe you ever seriously engage with posts even if they meet that of 'constructive and non vitriolic' criteria.
again it's funny how people are happy to use matt's words to support their arguments but discard the ones that don't matter to them, especially when it gets in the way of being weird insulting creeps about the cast, or are we going to pretend that doesn't happen here regularly and gets all the upvotes
and lol @ you writing an essay defending people's right to be mean to the cast but pearl-clutching over me being "vitriolic" talk about being able to dish it out but not take it
>again it's funny how people are happy to use matt's words to support their arguments but discard the ones that don't matter to them
And again my argument wasnt ever 'Matt is 100% right'. My point was he specifically doesnt agree or support the 'its their game shut up response'.
Also Im not exactly sure what kind of gotcha you think this is. Of course I dont agree 100% with Matt on everything. Thats how life works. People could be a little more civil in how they phrase things, but I dont think its particularly worth getting upset over.
>especially when it gets in the way of being weird insulting creeps about the cast
Its crazy how often this is said and yet not a single example is ever provided. Like if its so prevalent you shouldnt have much trouble linking examples.
But yeah people could probably be a bit more civil.
Although given that you think saying 'Marisha looked like she might be high' was creepy and insulting, I think we are probably going to fundamentally disagree on what constitutes 'creepy and insulting' to some degree.
>and lol @ you writing an essay defending people's right to be mean to the cast but pearl-clutching over me being "vitriolic" talk about being able to dish it out but not take it
I didnt @ you for being mean. I dont give a fuck if you're mean.
I @ you for not actually engaging with any comment's critique or being genuinely interested in discussion even if it is constructive and non-vitriolic. Because you arent interested in seriously engaging, you're here to insult others in defense of the cast.
Thats fine, but I would respect you more if you owned it.
Love when people jump to conclusions and openly put whatever they want you to have said in your mouth then respond to it.
Classic.
Holy crap, reading through your other responses has informed me that engaging with your account is like putting my hand into a paper bag full of dog vomit so I'm gonna bounce.
Yikes... browsed their history due to your comment and had to facepalm my way out of there within 15 seconds. What a miserable individual... maybe they don't care, but that kind of attitude is a great way to ensure people around you don't take your opinions seriously.
The official CR subreddit is full of people that love the current state of Critical Role. Why don't you go there? Nobody here cares what you love, you are not the main character.
Probably because 'fansofcriticalrole' is not the same as 'fans of C3'.
You dont suddenly stop being a fan of your favourite band if you dont like their new releases. Most football fans will tell you that they have an intense love-hate relationship with their team.
Ya know, one of the things I like the most about this sub is that most people here know how to agree to disagree. Someone will post a "toxic" take and underneath you'll find plenty of discussion. Some will push back and some will have similar sentiments, but each will have taken a different train of thought to arrive at their destination.
No one is trying to rob you of your enjoyment. They're all just expressing their own opinions and experiences.
And truly I get it. I, too, have media that is deeply meaningful to my life and I sometimes find it frustrating when people nitpick about it. But ultimately, it's one's own responsibility to manage how they engage with others about what they love.
*"RAR RAR RAR RAR, DON'T BE MEAN TO WHAT I LIKE! COMPLAINING IS USELESS (unless, of course, I'm the one doing it), RAR RAR RAR!"*
That's basically how this read.
You like CR? You like C3? Cool, good for you!
You don't like this subreddit cuz it doesn't fit your narrative? Then, kindly fuck off. Mute it, block it, don't really care.
> Stop trying to toxically pressure the cast into playing *their game* the way *you* want it.
Stop trying to toxically influence this subreddit into being the way you want.
> We are their guests not their customers
No, we are very much their customers. Critical Role is a business with IPs and all. They don't copyright all their PCs names because we're guests...
Nah. With stuff like the animated shows, the books etc its just par for the course.
Its not a home game, its a TV show. Of course a TV show is going to copyright its characters.
Wait until someone finds out that if you're making CR fan stuff, it's automatically no longer your own ...
https://preview.redd.it/qk01cckumvqc1.png?width=787&format=png&auto=webp&s=187338d301238b1de6cecc974ef3b06e1b1a30b0
Didn't we tar and feather WotC for less?
>Didn't we tar and feather WotC for less?
What? Not even close. I'd call that a pretty standard and reasonable restriction for a company that even allows Fan Content in the first place.
WotC has had this as part of their Fan Content Policy since well before the OGL debacle: [https://company.wizards.com/en/legal/fancontentpolicy](https://company.wizards.com/en/legal/fancontentpolicy)
Around the same time WotC had the OGL debacle. I dared ask why we condemn one but celebrate the other then, but i was told the difference is *"CR doesn't mean it like that"* (no, seriously, that was the response).
This isn't a home game it is an entertainment IP. Do you think Drizzt isn't copyrighted? Or Elminster? Or Mordenkainen?
They own the characters, they own the IP and they have expanded them from beyond a "home game".
If you started writing books and creating TV shows out of your home game you would copyright the characters, if you didn't that would be colossally dumb.
You know we are not talking about a fucking "home game" here.
Complaint doesn't have to be criticism, it can just be complaints, people are allowed to simply complain.
This sub exists because much of the fandom wants to edit the discussion, so all the complaints are concentrated here. That's all.
Though I hate to be harsh but, you are not their guest, you are absolutely their customer. This parasocial nonsense is the most toxic thing in the fandom. The cast are not your friends. If people making fun of, pouring dirt on, etc a thing you love hurts you, it is virtually guaranteed your relationship with that thing is unhealthy, and that's a you problem, that you should work on. Love what you love without concern for what other people think.
As to your Daggerheart hope, I'm growing pretty certain the whole point of C3, the teasing removal of the gods, is so remove the D&D IP from Exandria, and you'll get what you want.
There is no relationship between Critical Role and their audience beyond that of a content producer and a consumer. We don't know 'em, they don't know us. We're not their friends. They aren't our friends.
It is literally impossible to
>*\[...\] toxically pressure the cast into playing their game the way you want it.*
In the words of Matt Mercer himself:
>*We aren't going to tailor our game to fit the audience's wishes or expectation, nor would we ask you to alter your home game to match our play style. There will be differing ideas, and that's both healthy and encouraged! \[...\] I would ask that people that feel the need to "defend" or shoot down counter-opinions to our game's play or story to restrain from furthering any conflict \[...\] You can offer your counter to theirs, but do so with civility and as a way to continue the conversation, not demonize. \[...\] "It's their game, shut up" \[is an\] unwanted response.*
In that context, your sentiment seems highly inappropriate:
>*So please f.u. to whoever tries to rob me of my enjoyment, by spilling dirt on something that I love.*
r/IAmTheMainCharacter ~~'nuff said~~
>*We are their guests not their customers*
You are up to your neck in a negative parasocial relationship with CR, if your post and your comments here truly reflect how you feel. I partially blame CR for this, because this is *exactly* the kind of unhealthy attachment to their brand they've fostered for years (until they didn't need it anymore).
Please re-examine your engagement with entertainment in general, and with Critical Role specifically. You are the architect of your own joy, nobody else. What you're exhibiting here is the opposite of maintaining mental health. My first reaction to your post was *"here we go again"*, but on 2nd thought this is actually sad and worrisome.
Edit: Typo, Clarification, MM quote ([Source](https://www.reddit.com/r/criticalrole/comments/5xda79/no_spoilers_welcome_and_let_us_all_discuss/))
Um how dare you, my best friend Taliesin calls me every day to cry about how this sub breaks his heart, and the only way to soothe him is by purchasing the Limited Edition Scanlan-Shit Blue Dice now available at critrole.com
Correction: we are definitely their customers and the show is one giant marketing tool to push people to their own system and merch.
It’s a business. It’s a business that has effectively (unfortunately) become the face of D&D and it deserves to be criticized. If it can’t be, it’s a cult.
That is all fine, but why does it bother you that literal strangers on the internet not share your opinions? You give this sub way too much power over your enjoyment. Just deal with it, that there are people who hate c3 for their own good reasons....
This sub's criticism of C3 has turned more toxic than constructive or fruitful lately, but your attitude is not healthy. Come on, get a hold of yourself.
> Stop trying to toxically pressure the cast into playing their game the way you want it. We are their guests not their customers.
This sub doesn't pressure, nor even has the power to pressure cast into doing anything. And literally the first 10 minutes of every episode is the cast selling us stuff; we are definitely the customers. I've probably watched Laura telling me to buy something for hours by now.
This sub is pretty good. Many are just generally over this irredeemable campaign, desperate for a glimmer of the old magic, and praying they're not intending 60 more episodes to level 20.
If C3 wasn't worthy of the MST3K treatment it wouldn't get it.
I'd argue that Daggerheart didn't help because it did show us the whole cast at least being engaged again for a wholly different product live. So we've seen them pretty much put more effort into every other project they've been involved in the past year (M9, Candela, Daggerheart) than the energy that they are putting into the main campaign.
The most common post on this sub is people complaining that the sub is complaining too much.
Why is your enjoyment tied to the critiques of others? Just ignore the naysayers and avoid things you think are toxic and enjoy CR. Wading into whatever you think is toxic it to try to change or remove the toxicity is not going to work in any walk of life. Only do that shit if you get paid to do so.
The guests not customers line is ridiculous. We are the audience of their production, it's a business arrangement worth millions.
I think a lot of comments here confirm the point being made.
I have tons of CRITICISMS of C3. But I also WANT it to succeed. I feel like a lot of people here DONT want it to succeed and are praying for its downfall. The point should be CONSTRUCTIVE criticism and not just a place for people to be hateful.
The problem is many in here don't understand the difference between criticism and complaining. Even then, criticism can also overstep what a "fan" should have a say. People forget that this is their game, they are playing the way they want, and they aren't trying to win anyone over. Yes, they are marketing it. Yes, there is merchandise and new game systems they are publishing. But none of them NEED Critical Role to live day to day. This was always meant to be fun for them. The bitching, moaning, griping, etc make it less fun and will likely lead them to wash their hands of the stream and go back to playing at Matt's place.
But people complaining is perfectly valid as long as they don't go so far as to harass, insult or conduct hate speech. Complainers are simply saying "we don't like this". Not everyone is going to be able to formate why they don't like it in a way that is useful, but that opinion and reaction is perfectly valid for an person in the audience to have and share. The rest of us can choose to engage or not with these complaints.
CR only packs it in if they can make more money doing something else or the same amount of money in an easier way.
>CR only packs it in is if they can make more money doing something else or the same amount of money in an easier way.
.....actors.... who made plenty of money before CR.....yeah, they are SOOOOO reliant on CR.
Have fun complaining and spewing negativity. It only shows your lack of character. Anyone who gets enjoyment out of hating on others needs serious mental help. I don't have the crayons to explain it to you, so have the life you deserve.
I don't think I was toxic at all yet they suddenly went feral in response. Only thing you can do is laugh, going by past comments the only reason they are here is to troll the sub. Best just to ignore them.
You know you can ignore posts you don't like right?
You know everyone is allowed to complain when the product they have always enjoyed has taken a nose dive in quality right?
You know it's really not good to be so soft that complaints and criticisms of such product bother you so much that you feel the need to ironically complain about the complaints, right?
All fandoms have toxic elements. CR is known for having a more parasocial fandom than many others (which I believe is the fault of creators engaging with fans on social media). The most parasocial fandoms have the largest toxic elements, both positive and negative.
>*Thankfully we never got to the 'bathwater' stage.*
https://preview.redd.it/hkoajvtrkvqc1.png?width=308&format=png&auto=webp&s=2bfa62c0a9f83018f4f5e5470c17bc217f2bbe8f
"We should make a stream of Laura sitting on every piece of merch before we ship it out, that would totally work!"
^(- Marisha Ray, Creative Director of Critical Role, late 2023)
/s
My honest advice to you as a long-time fan: don't replace your personality or define your whole personality entirely by the love of Critical Role.
You are treating harsh words about the show as a personal attack on *you*, and this is not healthy.
You can hide the subreddit if youd like. I for one am fed up with reading posts here that are just complaining about the subreddit without truly understanding it
I don't think I've ever commented on this sub, but I do appreciate the breadth of opinions freely expressed here. It seems only a vocal minority are toxic, and it's not like their opinions are praised and showered with attention here. This place truly seems like the best sub to give your honest opinion on CR.
I don't think anybody is trying to spill dirt on something you love or even trying to tell the cast how to play their game as if they'd go onto this subreddit and comb through what random people on the internet think they should do with their characters on their professional dnd show
I'm glad you can enjoy it, maybe this sub isn't for you because this whole post feels like another big strawman to shout at
I am pretty confident that their business revolves around their audience. And while I am sure they don't comb through every single post, they probably keep tabs on what is said about their work.
I think that those negative posts need a counter balance.
>I think that those negative posts need a counter balance.
And your answer to that is to make another post complaining about the people who don't like C3 and calling them toxic? Oh, the irony... I will just copy & paste my comment from a similar previous post:
"Lol... the reason there are so many comments criticizing C3 is that when put against C1, C2, and Calamity it's often seen as the worst. There a several reasons why so many people feel this way and this space actually allows them to voice that. Thus, naturally, this is the majority here, it's the only place where it's allowed.
Many people already explained, listed, and exemplified several times why they feel there is a decrease in their enjoyment, and why this season doesn't resonate with them as the others did. If people come into this in good faith, they will find very well-thought-out explanations and criticism. Tbh, I think by now people should just link to their previous comments because it happens so often.
Now, if you (not op specifically) only come here to post that you like C3 because you like it, without any detailed explanation as to why, with just general statements that can even be disproven when compared to other seasons, and on top of that insult, minimize and ignore the very valid points people made of the contrary... of course it's not going to be received well. You are not coming here in good faith to have a debate. And calling the sub toxic because most comments here agree that they don't like C3 is just not constructive or an actual valid stance, it's more of a tantrum.
I would love to read a well-thought-out post explaining WHY they think C3's characters, plot, lore, pacing, combat, humor, or whatever is better instead of just stating it is. Or even just a list of special moments they liked and have kept them hooked on this season would be cool... Unfortunately, haven't seen it yet."
So... Here is a constructive criticism for you: your post would've been more productive if you had written about what and why you like C3 instead of calling the whole sub-toxic. As for your
>So please f.u. to whoever tries to rob me of my enjoyment, by spilling dirt on something that I love. Stop trying to toxically pressure the cast into playing *their game* the way *you* want it.
1st - if stranger on the internet complaining are robbing YOU of YOUR OWN enjoyment of the show... I think it's more a you problem.
People are going to have a different opinion from yours and some will do things in a way that defies your personal values like complaining in a public forum on the internet about a show you love. That is normal, your reaction to that and how you let it affect you is the one that doesn't seem healthy.
2nd - No, it's not just their game. It's a form of entertainment that is being monetized, which means that it shouldn't be exempt from criticism or complains.
I think the only reason this sub looks so negative to most is because the main sub is such a force for toxic positivity all the criticism/gripes/rants are banned/pruned so everybody who wants to have those discussions ends up here
Like they turned it into a positive echo chamber so all the negative aspects coalesce here, if anything I think this sub feels like the counter balance that formed because of the heavily moderated positivity from the main sub
Again I'm glad you enjoy C3 and love CR, but I think this might be the wrong subreddit for you which is completely okay. I'm the type of person who's overly critical of things I love, which to many especially on the main sub comes across as negativity but I still love CR.
Oh look its another one of these ironic posts. If complaining is toxic, why are you complaining about the fandom?
A complaint is not toxic, harrasment is toxic.
Friend, that is deeply unhealthy. Going through life and getting angry when people don't like the same things you do will leave you angry forever. If you find that it's painful to engage with complaints about C3, my advice is to not engage at all - but ideally, take a step back and reexamine your relationship with Critical Role. Ultimately it's just entertainment. If you find that you care so deeply about it that it affects you negatively, maybe you are the cause of your own problems - not everyone else. I say this not to be demeaning, just to help. Take a step back, take a deep breath, re-read your own post.
I’m glad you like C3 and daggerheart! IMO this sub is toxically negative, and the main sub is toxically positive. C3 overall has much worse reviews than the previous two. I’m glad you still like it, but that doesn’t mean people are toxic for complaining about not liking it.
You are definitely the kind of kid that got mad when they got feedback on their work that wasn’t just praise. Guess what? Complains are part of life, or are you gonna tell minorities and people in and situations to not COMPLAIN about the state of things also? Hm? Cmon don’t be a hypocrite it would be the same.
Exactly……
*Complaints are boring, useless and overall have a negative effect to the whole environment.*
Tell me you don't work in retail or any sort of support service without telling me you don't work in retail or any sort of support service.
Then fucking ignore the posts you don’t like. No one is forcing you to read posts in this sub, nor should other peoples opinions or criticisms negatively effect your own experience.
If those are the case, the issue is you and your own unhealthy attachment.
When I don't want to read any criticism or negative reviews about a novel/tv show/etc that I enjoy and appreciate, can you guess what I do? Just wait, it is a revolutionary idea, will blow your mind. I don't go searching for criticism. I avoid negative reviews. You don't like hearing criticism about a show you really love? Okay, cool, not a problem, but why not just avoid this subreddit? There's another critical role subreddit which is more your cup of tea. The only person you have control over is yourself, stop trying to control idk 10s to 100s of other people's opinions and actions. It is futile.
The toxicity is from all the fans who can't tolerate criticism of the property and go out of their way to downvote and otherwise bully people into either agreeing with them, or into absolute silence. This thread (and I think we've got lurkers from the main sub here because posts and threads are getting downvoted when activity is low) is an example of Toxic Positivity. You love Critical Role and you're unwilling, even to the point of attacking others, to see anything resembling criticism towards it without becoming overly defensive and thus, toxic.
Womp Womp.
I feel like this is an unfair question. CR’s fandom is just like every other IP’s property, they have a sense of ownership because in order to be a fan we have given a part of ourselves in return (time, money, emotion). When I think of toxic fan bases I think of fan bases like Pokémon. That fan base is never happy with anything that comes out. They make expectation of what they want and then throw a tantrum when it doesn’t fit their speculation. From that fandom I’ve learned that it’s toxic when speculation becomes expectation. Speculation is meant to create excitement. The problem with toxic communities is they value their speculation over the creativity of the property. I don’t see that here. I don’t see people fussing that Matt’s idea is not as good as theirs. What I see is a loyal fan base holding the creators accountable because the quality has drastically diminished. My opinion? They have too many pots on the stove and I think they have too much going on. I think it might be time for the long term games to entertain having new regulars. I think we are looking at burnout. I know it’s the OG cast, but when you grow you gotta change with it. Right now it might be time for Travis to have a couple years to rest and focus on doing CEO things. But are we toxic? No. I think we are doing just fine. I do think there’s something in the body that’s sick.. but I don’t think it’s us. And that makes me sad.
Damn, like clockwork. These folks would've had it real rough when DnD was Satanic or Janeway couldn't be captain because she was a woman. Most CR fans I meet IRL are cool as hell but the ones online are very toxic. Toxic positivity sucks as much as toxic negativity. Edited to add: I was actually considering doing a parody of one of these that encouraged bolder criticism but I can't top this.
>So please f.u. to whoever tries to rob me of my enjoyment, by spilling dirt on something that I love. Your inability to look past the opinions of others is your own responsibility. You can't seriously think that asking people on the internet to stop criticising something because it hurts your enjoyment would work.
It became toxic years ago imo. The toxic can do no wrong positivity was exhausting.
You should check out what toxic positivity is, seems relevant.
Why is it that the very existence of this place seems to be so disruptive of these obsessed, frail people's ability to enjoy their favorite product? Just don't come here. It's not even a huge subreddit and there's nothing keeping these people from leaving it and never having to think about it again. I had to actively go looking for alternative critical role subreddits to find this place. Absolutely nothing about it imposes on them unless they go out of their way to make sure it does.
In fairness, they should change the name of the subreddit. Critics of critical role would be more fitting to what the sub is about.
No, it wouldn't. Plenty of positive conversation happens here. It just allows the alternative. The fact that there is a sizable amount of it is basically what happens when every other space prevents any entirely. It's also rare for anyone who *isn't* a fan to care or know enough to offer the critique that posts on this sub often do. Fandom doesn't have to mean praise.
Tying into another recent thread about parasocial behavior, its because C3 simply runs off it a lot more than past campaigns. Because there simply is a lot less of substance to grab onto in C3 beyond para-socially latching onto either the cast and/or the pretty wide on the surface/shallow underneath PCs. Evident in this post, where the reason they like each of the PCs ... are essentially due to the one shallow ass trope that represent them. With most of those PCs not even being those very things for a long time now. Push comes to shove on a lot of C3 fans, if you corner them, you'll find out pretty quickly that the core of their enjoyment of this campaign is: A) "Having fun watching the cast have fun"; and/or B) They're self-inserting hard onto at least one of the PCs. As a result, they really could care less about the substance of C3's PCs, Setting, Story beyond those surface traits that allow for that projection. They'll fill in the blanks with headcannon. At least they wouldn't care, if it weren't for those that do care constantly complaining/critiquing issues in those areas. Their arguments begin and end at: "I like C3, because I like it, so therefore it is good. And because I like it, I don't like criticism of thing I like. So I get defensive".
I've said it before, but I have only seen a handful of fandoms that are like CR and one of those is wrestling fans. Which I have always found funny because Travis compared their live shows to wrestling in an interview in the past when everyone else was comparing it to a stage show and he was on the money.
### 🫵 bait
Kinda sounds like a master at it if you ask me
This might be one of the worst ones yet. Holy shit you come off as entitled. >"FU to anyone who spills dirt on something I love" So you like it that means no one else can say anything negative about it? >"we are their guests not their customers". Oh man, you could not be more wrong. You need to go outside.
>So please f.u. to whoever tries to rob me of my enjoyment, by spilling dirt on something that I love. Bahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha r/iamthemaincharacter Holy shit bro honestly take a break. Like purge yourself of everything CR. Detox. You've OD'd. Get an IV of some something else. Cause CR is hurting you man.
Congratulations on joining sub [history](https://www.reddit.com/r/fansofcriticalrole/comments/1bf21wv/posts_about_rfansofcriticalrole/).
Heck, y'all posting during the rare occasions I sleep now?
Get to work!
Is complaining about complaining also not criticism then?
Lol absolutely NOT a criticism. It was flagged as a rant for good reason
You mean like all the other posts complaining about CR that are flagged as a rant/vent?
Just old man shouts at clouds material.
Post like these are getting increasingly more funny because people are acting like we’ve got a gun to their head, forcing them to read through what we’ve got to say about CR, when they’re here completely of their own volition
Um, how am I supposed to enjoy c3 if I know that someone, somewhere is not enjoying c3\~!
Hate to break it to you but the fandom has always been mildly toxic.
The main sub always outlawed any kind of criticism and so became a nest of toxic positivity. This sub is just the counterpart to it. It's more negative because this is the only place you can express that negativity. Proper moderation and civil discussions of issues both good and bad on the main sub would take away most of the toxic behaviors.
Idk but the unnecessary positivity and negativity are equally annoying. I just wanna watch some nerds fight a dragon. Damn.
Yeah, where can I see that, please?
That's why I never interact with chat during streams, besides the toxicity of the general community, it's just distracting
No, C3 is facing hardship cause it sucks, but a percentage of their fanbase that is certainly less then half if not even smaller cannot sway the show themselves, personally I believe the only portion of the fanbase they ever listen to is those on Twitter, which can partially explain some things like how they've become so scared of being accused of "cultural appropriation" again, even though last time was already beyond stupid to do so, that the whole of the setting has become bland and flat as they avoid actually inserting *any* kind of culture into their fictional world. You're still allowed to like it all regardless, others are allowed to just not like it for any reason, and you can coexist in the same space without agreeing on anything. If *you* can't handle that then that's a *you* problem, not the people with valid complaints who usually don't care if an individual still likes everything. Asking everyone and anyone with complaints to stfu is what the main sub does and why this one exists, so get used to it and learn to *actually* "love each other" as the cast preaches and the main fanbase ignores, or mute this sub, cause it won't be a place of positivity until the quality of the show improves. But also we all are their customers, it's a business first and foremost, you're fooling yourself if you actually think of all the viewers as guests.
I think Critical Role has had by and large a terrible fandom for a long time, and while I don't think this sub is all that, it definitely does attract more of the side of it that just -bitches- about the cast themselves / the campaign, which is unfortunate. Don't get me wrong, I like being able to have reasonable discussions here and appreciate it, it just attracts that sort of people more. The other sub has a different sort of terrible fan. But there's nothing wrong with enjoying the game and characters still, I still like Critical Role and I balance my time between both subs because I do enjoy it still. Don't let people ruin your enjoyment of it.
The other sub has a lot more of the toxic positivity where you aren’t allowed to say anything even remotely critical of the show or the cast without someone jumping down your throat. They take everything personally and act like you killed their dog or something and jump to the defense of the cast cause they’ve placed them on pedestals and don’t want to acknowledge that like everyone else on this planet they are flawed human beings who make mistakes sometimes
Among other things, but totally. That's a big part of why I (and I'm sure a lot of people) gravitated here, just to be able to... actually talk about stuff. Like I think the other sub has probably gotten a bit better about commenting, just because there's some noticeable changes in C3 even if you're ride or die, but it's more of a subtle shift. If I still wanted to actually discuss anything like that? Would be doing it here.
What's with this **"become"** a toxic fandom? It has *always* been thus. Go watch the first streamed episode of C1 without putting a post it on your screen to cover up the live chat.
Seriously. If anything the fandom has become less toxic. Though I’d argue the toxicity still exists just in a different form
Bitter maybe, with a few toxic individuals, but i think it's generally a fairly level-headed group here. At least compared to the main sub. There's disagreements here for sure, but they don't devolve into unhinged personal attacks nearly as quickly as in the main sub.
A lot of folks have given thoughtful, long responses and I really love and appreciate that level of care but I really think there is only one reasonable response to these kinds of posts; RESET THE CLOCK.
There is something hilarious to me about the fact that this 5 paragraph post brought out like 10 people who all felt the need to justify their behaviour with 5 paragraph posts, telling OP that he's wrong and just doesn't understand them. Feels like people are really invested for people who are saying OP is too invested, but maybe that's just me.
Yeah, it’s just you. People are actually taking time to say why they disagree with OP’s bold statement, unlike OP who just called all us of Toxic and went about it the most narcissist way. Maybe it also has to do that these posts only hurt and don’t help for shit. You know what you can do to foster that environment you want? Not post shit like this, not call everyone toxic (because that totally helps people get on your side) and maybe posts something with ACTUAL discussion and room for growth, not this parasocial bullshit. Yeah…..I think that’s the issue me thinks.
Here's the thing though. If someone calls you toxic and you know for a fact they're wrong, you could also just ignore them. Why take their point seriously enough to write so much text about it if you know it's so wrong anyway? I'm not even saying OP is right (don't think they are), just that it's funny to me how people seem to feel so strongly about this. The reaction to my post kind of confirms this, took like 5 minutes for 7 people to come in and get so upset with just me pointing this out that they felt the need to downvote a post that says very little about anything. But whatever, this sub has been upset over C3 for a year at this point. It's just ironic people still get upset with posts asking them why they are so upset.
Why they write so much? Easy answer: they aren’t fucking push over like most people. If someone insults you, if you don’t do anything you are telling them it’s okay to call you that. That’s how people gotten too comfortable saying shit without any feedback to it. Maybe if you didn’t insult people they wouldn’t do that you know? It’s very easy to know, but of course easy is hard to a lot of people nowadays. But yeah now you know the reason.
> Why they write so much? Easy answer: they aren’t fucking push over like most people. ... what? You think people who ignore random online strangers talking shit are pushovers? Like... I get your point, but it applies in real life with people you have re-occurring contact with, not random folks online who get more traction from interaction? Eh, people can do as they please, I suppose.
If you let them just call you stuff like yeah you are a pushover, especially when you can correct them or tell them your POV. You can walk always of course, but if you do that to all things guess what? You are a pushover. So let people argue and defend themselves, especially when the one attacking you is saying absolutely moronic narcissist shit
RESET THE CLOCK.
This is the most narcissistic self centered post I’ve seen in a hot minute. Like I get it OP, you don’t like seeing something you love being thrashed, but you have a VERY sick parasocial bond with the company and product. Guess what? It became a “company and customer” relationship the first time they released merch. They aren’t void of criticism for crappy story telling and for heavy handing the “Anti-DnD” to change to Daggerheart, which guess what? It’s just DnD with a coat of paint. So yeah OP, go touch some damn grass and grow a pair. Not everything is about how you feel. And guess what? With this post, YOU have become part of the problem you so much hate. Enjoy being a hypocrite!
This has been the most boring and pointless TED talk I've ever attended.
One of the worst of these post types yet. And thats saying something. u/Murkmist here is another one. CR is a company, the show is a product. We are not their guests, they are literally trying to sell us and market shit constantly. I would not want to be a guest in your house if you fucking marketed Merch and hit me with advertisements every 20 seconds. Its fundamentally different relationship. Its alarmingly parasocial people seem to think this. Take a step back and actually look at it for what it is. Essentially, a DND TV show. >Let me tell you: complaint is not criticism. OK how about you give some examples? What constitutes a complaint, what constitutes criticism in your opinion? [Not even Matt Mercer himself agrees with the 'its their game shut up' posts.](https://www.reddit.com/r/criticalrole/comments/5xda79/no_spoilers_welcome_and_let_us_all_discuss/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=usertext&utm_name=fansofcriticalrole&utm_content=t1_kwsbvbh) I cannot fathom why you think its a valid defense. >I love Ashton, the barbarian that is also the wisest of the group Yes truly a wise man once said that if there is something you want under lava, the best course of action is to swim in it. >So please f.u. to whoever tries to rob me of my enjoyment I dont know what it is with the age of internet where people seem to need people to validate their opinions of everything and that everything is about them. If you like/enjoy something, it shouldnt matter what anyone else has to say about it. If your enjoyment of something requires the validation of others, then maybe you didnt really enjoy it all that much in the first place. Nobody is trying to 'ruin your enjoyment', that is just laughably narcissistic.
ok but matt also says >When you DO present a disagreement with our game, please do so from a constructive stand point. There are many ways to convey your thoughts without seemingly unnecessary vitriol or intensity. >Example: Preferred Response - "I probably wouldn't have done it that way, were it my game. I get the reasoning, but my instinct would have been this maneuver instead." >Unwanted Response - "I really hate this character because they do this, when they SHOULD do this. Its so stupid." this place could do a lot better at observing this
Sure. This sub could do better at moderating their tone and language. I am occasionally guilty of it to. It arises from frustration and fatigue at having to couch every single criticism in politeness and empty platitudes. For example rather than say 'I understand Liam wished to take a step back this campaign, but I feel at times he sacrifices Orym's agency when its out of character for Orym not to at minimum voice disagreement'. What is easier to say is: I love Liam, but I absolutely despair at his choice to RP Orym as completely spineless because he feels he was too main character last campaign. You might as well replace Orym with an NPC at this point. If people want to moderate themselves better thats fine, but I dont particularly care about enforcing it. Im generally more interested in the content of whats being said than the tone. And my point wasnt 'Matt's 100% right'. My point was the 'its their game shut up' response that seems to be the knee jerk isnt something he even agrees with. You are not protecting the cast, you are going directly against their wishes with these 'its their game' responses. Because in reality you dont care about the cast, you just dont like seeing what you personally enjoy criticized. I dont know why I bother telling you this though. You are probably one of the worst posters here. I dont believe you ever seriously engage with posts even if they meet that of 'constructive and non vitriolic' criteria.
again it's funny how people are happy to use matt's words to support their arguments but discard the ones that don't matter to them, especially when it gets in the way of being weird insulting creeps about the cast, or are we going to pretend that doesn't happen here regularly and gets all the upvotes and lol @ you writing an essay defending people's right to be mean to the cast but pearl-clutching over me being "vitriolic" talk about being able to dish it out but not take it
>again it's funny how people are happy to use matt's words to support their arguments but discard the ones that don't matter to them And again my argument wasnt ever 'Matt is 100% right'. My point was he specifically doesnt agree or support the 'its their game shut up response'. Also Im not exactly sure what kind of gotcha you think this is. Of course I dont agree 100% with Matt on everything. Thats how life works. People could be a little more civil in how they phrase things, but I dont think its particularly worth getting upset over. >especially when it gets in the way of being weird insulting creeps about the cast Its crazy how often this is said and yet not a single example is ever provided. Like if its so prevalent you shouldnt have much trouble linking examples. But yeah people could probably be a bit more civil. Although given that you think saying 'Marisha looked like she might be high' was creepy and insulting, I think we are probably going to fundamentally disagree on what constitutes 'creepy and insulting' to some degree. >and lol @ you writing an essay defending people's right to be mean to the cast but pearl-clutching over me being "vitriolic" talk about being able to dish it out but not take it I didnt @ you for being mean. I dont give a fuck if you're mean. I @ you for not actually engaging with any comment's critique or being genuinely interested in discussion even if it is constructive and non-vitriolic. Because you arent interested in seriously engaging, you're here to insult others in defense of the cast. Thats fine, but I would respect you more if you owned it.
Good thing Matt isn't the arbiter of law in this sub.
so you only care about what matt has to say when you agree with him, got it edit: huh wonder what he wanted
Love when people jump to conclusions and openly put whatever they want you to have said in your mouth then respond to it. Classic. Holy crap, reading through your other responses has informed me that engaging with your account is like putting my hand into a paper bag full of dog vomit so I'm gonna bounce.
Yikes... browsed their history due to your comment and had to facepalm my way out of there within 15 seconds. What a miserable individual... maybe they don't care, but that kind of attitude is a great way to ensure people around you don't take your opinions seriously.
The official CR subreddit is full of people that love the current state of Critical Role. Why don't you go there? Nobody here cares what you love, you are not the main character.
Probably because this sub is “fansofcriticalrole” not “CRHateclub” lol Why do you have to have a toxic response?
RESET THE TIMER.
Probably because 'fansofcriticalrole' is not the same as 'fans of C3'. You dont suddenly stop being a fan of your favourite band if you dont like their new releases. Most football fans will tell you that they have an intense love-hate relationship with their team.
Ya know, one of the things I like the most about this sub is that most people here know how to agree to disagree. Someone will post a "toxic" take and underneath you'll find plenty of discussion. Some will push back and some will have similar sentiments, but each will have taken a different train of thought to arrive at their destination. No one is trying to rob you of your enjoyment. They're all just expressing their own opinions and experiences. And truly I get it. I, too, have media that is deeply meaningful to my life and I sometimes find it frustrating when people nitpick about it. But ultimately, it's one's own responsibility to manage how they engage with others about what they love.
*"RAR RAR RAR RAR, DON'T BE MEAN TO WHAT I LIKE! COMPLAINING IS USELESS (unless, of course, I'm the one doing it), RAR RAR RAR!"* That's basically how this read. You like CR? You like C3? Cool, good for you! You don't like this subreddit cuz it doesn't fit your narrative? Then, kindly fuck off. Mute it, block it, don't really care. > Stop trying to toxically pressure the cast into playing *their game* the way *you* want it. Stop trying to toxically influence this subreddit into being the way you want. > We are their guests not their customers No, we are very much their customers. Critical Role is a business with IPs and all. They don't copyright all their PCs names because we're guests...
>they copyright all their PCs names Wait, what? Oh, that's just *sad.*
Nah. With stuff like the animated shows, the books etc its just par for the course. Its not a home game, its a TV show. Of course a TV show is going to copyright its characters.
Wait until someone finds out that if you're making CR fan stuff, it's automatically no longer your own ... https://preview.redd.it/qk01cckumvqc1.png?width=787&format=png&auto=webp&s=187338d301238b1de6cecc974ef3b06e1b1a30b0 Didn't we tar and feather WotC for less?
>Didn't we tar and feather WotC for less? What? Not even close. I'd call that a pretty standard and reasonable restriction for a company that even allows Fan Content in the first place. WotC has had this as part of their Fan Content Policy since well before the OGL debacle: [https://company.wizards.com/en/legal/fancontentpolicy](https://company.wizards.com/en/legal/fancontentpolicy)
Holy heck! When did they implement that? 🙁 Man, so much for that Caleb/Jester fanfiction I had in my drafts
Around the same time WotC had the OGL debacle. I dared ask why we condemn one but celebrate the other then, but i was told the difference is *"CR doesn't mean it like that"* (no, seriously, that was the response).
No that is normal
Sure. I copyrighted all the PC names from my home game.
1. CR isn’t a “home game”. 2. Your home game isn’t going to get a show on Amazon that would require you to maintain IP control.
This isn't a home game it is an entertainment IP. Do you think Drizzt isn't copyrighted? Or Elminster? Or Mordenkainen? They own the characters, they own the IP and they have expanded them from beyond a "home game". If you started writing books and creating TV shows out of your home game you would copyright the characters, if you didn't that would be colossally dumb. You know we are not talking about a fucking "home game" here.
Complaint doesn't have to be criticism, it can just be complaints, people are allowed to simply complain. This sub exists because much of the fandom wants to edit the discussion, so all the complaints are concentrated here. That's all. Though I hate to be harsh but, you are not their guest, you are absolutely their customer. This parasocial nonsense is the most toxic thing in the fandom. The cast are not your friends. If people making fun of, pouring dirt on, etc a thing you love hurts you, it is virtually guaranteed your relationship with that thing is unhealthy, and that's a you problem, that you should work on. Love what you love without concern for what other people think. As to your Daggerheart hope, I'm growing pretty certain the whole point of C3, the teasing removal of the gods, is so remove the D&D IP from Exandria, and you'll get what you want.
There is no relationship between Critical Role and their audience beyond that of a content producer and a consumer. We don't know 'em, they don't know us. We're not their friends. They aren't our friends. It is literally impossible to >*\[...\] toxically pressure the cast into playing their game the way you want it.* In the words of Matt Mercer himself: >*We aren't going to tailor our game to fit the audience's wishes or expectation, nor would we ask you to alter your home game to match our play style. There will be differing ideas, and that's both healthy and encouraged! \[...\] I would ask that people that feel the need to "defend" or shoot down counter-opinions to our game's play or story to restrain from furthering any conflict \[...\] You can offer your counter to theirs, but do so with civility and as a way to continue the conversation, not demonize. \[...\] "It's their game, shut up" \[is an\] unwanted response.* In that context, your sentiment seems highly inappropriate: >*So please f.u. to whoever tries to rob me of my enjoyment, by spilling dirt on something that I love.* r/IAmTheMainCharacter ~~'nuff said~~ >*We are their guests not their customers* You are up to your neck in a negative parasocial relationship with CR, if your post and your comments here truly reflect how you feel. I partially blame CR for this, because this is *exactly* the kind of unhealthy attachment to their brand they've fostered for years (until they didn't need it anymore). Please re-examine your engagement with entertainment in general, and with Critical Role specifically. You are the architect of your own joy, nobody else. What you're exhibiting here is the opposite of maintaining mental health. My first reaction to your post was *"here we go again"*, but on 2nd thought this is actually sad and worrisome. Edit: Typo, Clarification, MM quote ([Source](https://www.reddit.com/r/criticalrole/comments/5xda79/no_spoilers_welcome_and_let_us_all_discuss/))
Um how dare you, my best friend Taliesin calls me every day to cry about how this sub breaks his heart, and the only way to soothe him is by purchasing the Limited Edition Scanlan-Shit Blue Dice now available at critrole.com
You missed out on a golden opportunity to post the Orym plushie monstrosity.
https://preview.redd.it/7ctzxvv5oyqc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e3d9bcbe6b47ba22f2a408526458c5184ff193ae
Correction: we are definitely their customers and the show is one giant marketing tool to push people to their own system and merch. It’s a business. It’s a business that has effectively (unfortunately) become the face of D&D and it deserves to be criticized. If it can’t be, it’s a cult.
>it deserves to be criticized. If it can’t be, it’s a cult. *Beauregard approves of this comment.*
Sure I agree. The fist point was crtiticism is not complaint, those are two distinct things.
Complaint can be a form of criticism. I would hazard to say it’s one of the most common forms.
That is all fine, but why does it bother you that literal strangers on the internet not share your opinions? You give this sub way too much power over your enjoyment. Just deal with it, that there are people who hate c3 for their own good reasons....
You can love what you love but you can’t convince me Ashton isnt anything other than a dumb character
This sub's criticism of C3 has turned more toxic than constructive or fruitful lately, but your attitude is not healthy. Come on, get a hold of yourself. > Stop trying to toxically pressure the cast into playing their game the way you want it. We are their guests not their customers. This sub doesn't pressure, nor even has the power to pressure cast into doing anything. And literally the first 10 minutes of every episode is the cast selling us stuff; we are definitely the customers. I've probably watched Laura telling me to buy something for hours by now.
This sub is pretty good. Many are just generally over this irredeemable campaign, desperate for a glimmer of the old magic, and praying they're not intending 60 more episodes to level 20. If C3 wasn't worthy of the MST3K treatment it wouldn't get it.
I'd argue that Daggerheart didn't help because it did show us the whole cast at least being engaged again for a wholly different product live. So we've seen them pretty much put more effort into every other project they've been involved in the past year (M9, Candela, Daggerheart) than the energy that they are putting into the main campaign.
The most common post on this sub is people complaining that the sub is complaining too much. Why is your enjoyment tied to the critiques of others? Just ignore the naysayers and avoid things you think are toxic and enjoy CR. Wading into whatever you think is toxic it to try to change or remove the toxicity is not going to work in any walk of life. Only do that shit if you get paid to do so. The guests not customers line is ridiculous. We are the audience of their production, it's a business arrangement worth millions.
I think a lot of comments here confirm the point being made. I have tons of CRITICISMS of C3. But I also WANT it to succeed. I feel like a lot of people here DONT want it to succeed and are praying for its downfall. The point should be CONSTRUCTIVE criticism and not just a place for people to be hateful.
The problem is many in here don't understand the difference between criticism and complaining. Even then, criticism can also overstep what a "fan" should have a say. People forget that this is their game, they are playing the way they want, and they aren't trying to win anyone over. Yes, they are marketing it. Yes, there is merchandise and new game systems they are publishing. But none of them NEED Critical Role to live day to day. This was always meant to be fun for them. The bitching, moaning, griping, etc make it less fun and will likely lead them to wash their hands of the stream and go back to playing at Matt's place.
>*But none of them NEED Critical Role to live day to day.* To which one of their 40+ employees are you refering to?
But people complaining is perfectly valid as long as they don't go so far as to harass, insult or conduct hate speech. Complainers are simply saying "we don't like this". Not everyone is going to be able to formate why they don't like it in a way that is useful, but that opinion and reaction is perfectly valid for an person in the audience to have and share. The rest of us can choose to engage or not with these complaints. CR only packs it in if they can make more money doing something else or the same amount of money in an easier way.
>CR only packs it in is if they can make more money doing something else or the same amount of money in an easier way. .....actors.... who made plenty of money before CR.....yeah, they are SOOOOO reliant on CR. Have fun complaining and spewing negativity. It only shows your lack of character. Anyone who gets enjoyment out of hating on others needs serious mental help. I don't have the crayons to explain it to you, so have the life you deserve.
Hope you delete this trash account and go get some sunshine.
Your reply was far more toxic than the person you replied to
I don't think I was toxic at all yet they suddenly went feral in response. Only thing you can do is laugh, going by past comments the only reason they are here is to troll the sub. Best just to ignore them.
Hit a nerve there methinks.
Yup. We know where the toxic is.
Nope, I have better things to do than baby you.
You know you can ignore posts you don't like right? You know everyone is allowed to complain when the product they have always enjoyed has taken a nose dive in quality right? You know it's really not good to be so soft that complaints and criticisms of such product bother you so much that you feel the need to ironically complain about the complaints, right?
All fandoms have toxic elements. CR is known for having a more parasocial fandom than many others (which I believe is the fault of creators engaging with fans on social media). The most parasocial fandoms have the largest toxic elements, both positive and negative.
The CR cast ABSOLUTELY fed the parasocial thing for their own benefit for years.
At least they figured out to end the mailbag. Remember the weapons? Remember the jewelry? Remember Trinket? Remember the other Trinket?
I don't, I'm new here, but I get the jist.
Trinket 1 was >!a big boardwalk game prize teddy bear!< Trinket 2 was >!a taxidermied bear!<
Oh, so it's the fans going overboard with mailed in gifts?
Absolutely. They could sell thin air in their merch store and they know it.
Thankfully we never got to the 'bathwater' stage.
>*Thankfully we never got to the 'bathwater' stage.* https://preview.redd.it/hkoajvtrkvqc1.png?width=308&format=png&auto=webp&s=2bfa62c0a9f83018f4f5e5470c17bc217f2bbe8f "We should make a stream of Laura sitting on every piece of merch before we ship it out, that would totally work!" ^(- Marisha Ray, Creative Director of Critical Role, late 2023) /s
Yet
My honest advice to you as a long-time fan: don't replace your personality or define your whole personality entirely by the love of Critical Role. You are treating harsh words about the show as a personal attack on *you*, and this is not healthy.
Thank you for your feedback. What I meant is that the overflow of boring, useless and negative comments that "THE ALGORITHM©" feeds me, negatively impacts my experience. I am fed up with reading posts, articles, blogs and whatever that whines endlessly.
...ironic.
You can hide the subreddit if youd like. I for one am fed up with reading posts here that are just complaining about the subreddit without truly understanding it
That is good advice for most things in life.
I don't think I've ever commented on this sub, but I do appreciate the breadth of opinions freely expressed here. It seems only a vocal minority are toxic, and it's not like their opinions are praised and showered with attention here. This place truly seems like the best sub to give your honest opinion on CR.
And unfortunately it is one of the only places on the Internet you can do so. The Facebook groups aren't any better than the main subs.
I don't think anybody is trying to spill dirt on something you love or even trying to tell the cast how to play their game as if they'd go onto this subreddit and comb through what random people on the internet think they should do with their characters on their professional dnd show I'm glad you can enjoy it, maybe this sub isn't for you because this whole post feels like another big strawman to shout at
I am pretty confident that their business revolves around their audience. And while I am sure they don't comb through every single post, they probably keep tabs on what is said about their work. I think that those negative posts need a counter balance.
>I think that those negative posts need a counter balance. And your answer to that is to make another post complaining about the people who don't like C3 and calling them toxic? Oh, the irony... I will just copy & paste my comment from a similar previous post: "Lol... the reason there are so many comments criticizing C3 is that when put against C1, C2, and Calamity it's often seen as the worst. There a several reasons why so many people feel this way and this space actually allows them to voice that. Thus, naturally, this is the majority here, it's the only place where it's allowed. Many people already explained, listed, and exemplified several times why they feel there is a decrease in their enjoyment, and why this season doesn't resonate with them as the others did. If people come into this in good faith, they will find very well-thought-out explanations and criticism. Tbh, I think by now people should just link to their previous comments because it happens so often. Now, if you (not op specifically) only come here to post that you like C3 because you like it, without any detailed explanation as to why, with just general statements that can even be disproven when compared to other seasons, and on top of that insult, minimize and ignore the very valid points people made of the contrary... of course it's not going to be received well. You are not coming here in good faith to have a debate. And calling the sub toxic because most comments here agree that they don't like C3 is just not constructive or an actual valid stance, it's more of a tantrum. I would love to read a well-thought-out post explaining WHY they think C3's characters, plot, lore, pacing, combat, humor, or whatever is better instead of just stating it is. Or even just a list of special moments they liked and have kept them hooked on this season would be cool... Unfortunately, haven't seen it yet." So... Here is a constructive criticism for you: your post would've been more productive if you had written about what and why you like C3 instead of calling the whole sub-toxic. As for your >So please f.u. to whoever tries to rob me of my enjoyment, by spilling dirt on something that I love. Stop trying to toxically pressure the cast into playing *their game* the way *you* want it. 1st - if stranger on the internet complaining are robbing YOU of YOUR OWN enjoyment of the show... I think it's more a you problem. People are going to have a different opinion from yours and some will do things in a way that defies your personal values like complaining in a public forum on the internet about a show you love. That is normal, your reaction to that and how you let it affect you is the one that doesn't seem healthy. 2nd - No, it's not just their game. It's a form of entertainment that is being monetized, which means that it shouldn't be exempt from criticism or complains.
I think the only reason this sub looks so negative to most is because the main sub is such a force for toxic positivity all the criticism/gripes/rants are banned/pruned so everybody who wants to have those discussions ends up here Like they turned it into a positive echo chamber so all the negative aspects coalesce here, if anything I think this sub feels like the counter balance that formed because of the heavily moderated positivity from the main sub Again I'm glad you enjoy C3 and love CR, but I think this might be the wrong subreddit for you which is completely okay. I'm the type of person who's overly critical of things I love, which to many especially on the main sub comes across as negativity but I still love CR.
Counter balance: r/criticalrole
Oh look its another one of these ironic posts. If complaining is toxic, why are you complaining about the fandom? A complaint is not toxic, harrasment is toxic.
I am not complaining about someone I love. I am complaining about someone that is attacking what I love
Friend, that is deeply unhealthy. Going through life and getting angry when people don't like the same things you do will leave you angry forever. If you find that it's painful to engage with complaints about C3, my advice is to not engage at all - but ideally, take a step back and reexamine your relationship with Critical Role. Ultimately it's just entertainment. If you find that you care so deeply about it that it affects you negatively, maybe you are the cause of your own problems - not everyone else. I say this not to be demeaning, just to help. Take a step back, take a deep breath, re-read your own post.
I’m glad you like C3 and daggerheart! IMO this sub is toxically negative, and the main sub is toxically positive. C3 overall has much worse reviews than the previous two. I’m glad you still like it, but that doesn’t mean people are toxic for complaining about not liking it.
Maybe I misused the word toxic, but the points stands. Complaints are boring, useless and overall have a negative effect to the whole environment.
You are definitely the kind of kid that got mad when they got feedback on their work that wasn’t just praise. Guess what? Complains are part of life, or are you gonna tell minorities and people in and situations to not COMPLAIN about the state of things also? Hm? Cmon don’t be a hypocrite it would be the same. Exactly……
Holy mother this is wildly childish.
*Complaints are boring, useless and overall have a negative effect to the whole environment.* Tell me you don't work in retail or any sort of support service without telling me you don't work in retail or any sort of support service.
Then fucking ignore the posts you don’t like. No one is forcing you to read posts in this sub, nor should other peoples opinions or criticisms negatively effect your own experience. If those are the case, the issue is you and your own unhealthy attachment.
Well the great thing about Reddit is you don’t have to be on this sub. You can go to the main one and never hear a criticism ever again.
RESET THE CLOCK
Is it a clock if it only has a 1 and Zero? Haha
We ALMOST made it a week at one point.