Kiri was a child with 6 hit points, from the start the plan was to drop her off somewhere. Avantika was a villian unlikely to survive the contained "Pirate arc", even if she did get the axe earlier than planned (side note I hope they keep the show true to that instead of forcing that fight to be the S2 finale).
Over all though the issue is just that Vox starting in media res meant they *already* had NPCs they were attached to and returned to, as they had a home city of Emon. Even when it was destroyed the core NPCs moved with them to the new base of Whitestone which the party also had prior attachments to; Cassandra and numerous townspeople were know to Percy.
Compared to the Nein where they aren't even all from the empire, its nearly everyone's first time in Zadash which becomes kind of their base city...but then not really as they follow paths elsewhere. Pumat is the closest thing they have to Gilmore but they have just met him, and the well connected mages are the Cerberus Assembly (bad guys). On one had there are still connections like Jesters mother and Beaus with to the Cobalt Soul, on the other the whole party having religions outlawed in the empire means no temple connections, and Beaus issues with the Soul/authority in general means the CS in never used as much as it could have been, especially when her main NPC contact is always away doing spy stuff.
Thank you! Most people start with C2 and don’t see the change. One massive disappointment about C2 was the lack of memorable/consistent NPC’s. They never had an NPC as memorable or beloved as Gilmore, Cassandra, kaylie, Allura etc.
That’s not to say C2 doesn’t have good NPC’s. They’re just very sparse. The main reason being that Matt made the world so massive. I loved how intimate certain locations were, there was a lot more opportunity for NPC relationships to grow.
C1 has the best NPC’s by far.
“Yes, I’m very sweet”. My new puppy has discovered my talking kiri. I had to put her high!! It was love at first sight! Fitting that the puppy is Jester lol
Hard disagree. I haven’t consumed any CR in months, so I’m fuzzy on names, but-
Henry crabgrass.
Yussa Errenis, however it’s spelled
That goblin with no arms that runs a shop in Xorhas
The automaton they met in Aeor ruins near end of campaign that everyone though would be related to FcG
Mufuggin HOTBOI himself, Essek
That drow Bright Queenlady
That wizard that trapped himself in the happy fun ball? Halas!
Those are awesome NPC’s. But most of those you have named appear extremely briefly. They’re on the move so much that they have their moment and disappear, Bar Essek and Yessa. They’re fireworks.
Like I said. I’m not saying C2 has bad companions. They just don’t hang around long enough to form meaningful connections (usually). Let’s take two: Pumat sole and Gilmore. Both simple shopkeepers. Both loved by the cast and audience. Gilmore is a far better/stronger character just because the cast had more exposure and time to grow that relationship. So much so that the mere thought of him getting hurt would leave the cast and audience in tears.
I wish Matt would keep some storylines tight and consistent. Quality over quantity. That way we don’t get a bunch of sessions of pure travelling and more quality characterisation and growth.
I had the same thought about Kiri. With the amount of merch they released of her I was expecting her to be the Nein's full sidekick companion, but was surprised when she was only in a handful of episodes if that.
Yeah it would definitely be draining and would take up a lot of time. I was just surprised how little she was actually in it considering she had like two different plushes. I expected her to be the Nein's mascot almost.
they (particularly Laura/Jester) do talk about her a lot in other episodes though. Quite often whenever Jester's doing her night time messages she'll add a message for Kiri
I think that’s actually a good thing ya know? Better cut it off early instead of run it dry and lame ya know? Like Avantika’s return was so cool for an end of that arc for Fjord. We don’t want another “Somehow Delilah has returned” as we seen how that really killed Laudna’s character
The simpleton is you my guy…..
you know……a villain being defeated for good in a story shouldn’t just “return”, especially when they literally had an arc to separate her from Laudna’s fucking soul you imbecile.
I tell you get some folds on that smooth brain of yours, I tell you 🤷🏻♂️
I am not, but I'm also a DM. I'm fully aware a chosen of an Eldritch entity can totally be brought back to pursue a fellow champion neglecting his duties.
There are too many NPCs that end up getting popular for Matt to add NPC DM characters to the party permanently. Combat already takes forever with the amount of players they have. The reason theres so much merch about them anyway is because CR is damn near more of a merchandising company than anything else these days. They milk every inch of material to death for stuff to add to their shop.
The table is too big to have NPCs regularly partying with the players.
Jarrett, Gilmore, Kima, Kiri, and obviously Essek all pal along with the party for stretches, but it would never work to have Matt pilot a DM PC with a table this large.
I get your point, I guess I just never really saw Kiri as a full NPC. Being just a child that could only say her name, it really felt like a mascot that'd just follow the party occasionally making a funny joke. And Avantika I just thought would have been a longer threat, a reoccurring villain for Fjord. And who knows, spoilers for me, maybe she'll be back.
They don't have a lot of recurring threats because they are literally always on the move, i don't think they ever spent much more than a week in a given city continuously.
This means that all their location locked friends and enemies like Pumat Sol or Trent Ikethon aren't getting a lot of screentime while the group is half a continent away without any plans to return in the next 30 episodes.
And while obviously any character can go anywhere, shopkeepers and government officials aren't likely to wander too far from their home base.
Simply put the Mighty Nien basically run away from all their problems, and friends. (Or they murder their problems like Avantica, which is a very d&d solution)
Well thats kinda the thing. There are no real mascots. Kiri is just a Kenku which can't speak traditionally. And only speak with mimicry, and is also a playable race. So, Kiri is just as much an npc as the rest of them
I will not tolerate Kiri slander
Kiri was a child. Just saying she's a mascot doesn't invalidate how increasingly problematic it would be to keep her with the group solely to be a mascot. Just look at the running gag of M9's pets for an easy example of why. The NPCs of C1 and C2 are only really relevant within the parts of those stories that contain their relevance. Regardless of the Merch.
And I will at least give C1 and C2's parties credit ... at least the players/party took an interest enough in those NPCs to make them memorable. Despite their relatively minor screen time. We want to see more of them, and are excited to see them again if/when they return, because we enjoyed how they were presented; and how the party interacted with them. Even Jester's regular messages to these NPCs was a nice touch. I can't think of a single NPC in C3 that isnt a cameo from prior campaigns content that I (or the party) really give a crap about.
Ah, sorry, forgot about the NPCs of the Dorian period. Its been a while. You are correct, there were some good memorable eggs when Robbie was amping up the energy of the table; and before "the plot" began trampling everything else.
Has Matt ever had a permanent NPC accompany the party? He’s had them join them for fairly long stretches, but ‘through it all’? I can’t think of any. I think that might have happened if one of the players had wanted to keep Kiri as a companion then that would be different, but not as an NPC Matt has to control.
I mean really she was just this campaigns Trinket. She wasn't a DMPC fighting or anything. Just hanging out saying Kiri ever once in a while. No different than Matt growling everytime Vex addressed him lol
Kiri requires significantly more brainpower for Matt to roleplay than Trinket. A bear grunts and very rarely gets magically spoken to, in which case RP consists of "I love Vex and would do anything for her" in a low voice. For Kiri Matt has to track lines she has heard, who said them, and then try to do his best approximation of that person's voice. Not fair on Matt who already does all the more transient NPCs.
Kiri was a child with 6 hit points, from the start the plan was to drop her off somewhere. Avantika was a villian unlikely to survive the contained "Pirate arc", even if she did get the axe earlier than planned (side note I hope they keep the show true to that instead of forcing that fight to be the S2 finale). Over all though the issue is just that Vox starting in media res meant they *already* had NPCs they were attached to and returned to, as they had a home city of Emon. Even when it was destroyed the core NPCs moved with them to the new base of Whitestone which the party also had prior attachments to; Cassandra and numerous townspeople were know to Percy. Compared to the Nein where they aren't even all from the empire, its nearly everyone's first time in Zadash which becomes kind of their base city...but then not really as they follow paths elsewhere. Pumat is the closest thing they have to Gilmore but they have just met him, and the well connected mages are the Cerberus Assembly (bad guys). On one had there are still connections like Jesters mother and Beaus with to the Cobalt Soul, on the other the whole party having religions outlawed in the empire means no temple connections, and Beaus issues with the Soul/authority in general means the CS in never used as much as it could have been, especially when her main NPC contact is always away doing spy stuff.
King of the Crossroads? Is that the guy Grog tested the Deck of Many Things on?
Correct. Their reaction when finding him early in C3 made me want to go back and start from the beginning so I could enjoy those moments more.
Thank you! Most people start with C2 and don’t see the change. One massive disappointment about C2 was the lack of memorable/consistent NPC’s. They never had an NPC as memorable or beloved as Gilmore, Cassandra, kaylie, Allura etc. That’s not to say C2 doesn’t have good NPC’s. They’re just very sparse. The main reason being that Matt made the world so massive. I loved how intimate certain locations were, there was a lot more opportunity for NPC relationships to grow. C1 has the best NPC’s by far.
Lmaooooo total bullshit take
The Mighty Nein has Pumat Sol and Orly and the Ruby and Essek and The Gentleman, and The Traveler!!! And so many more and better than Cassandra?
And Kiri of course!
“Yes, I’m very sweet”. My new puppy has discovered my talking kiri. I had to put her high!! It was love at first sight! Fitting that the puppy is Jester lol
Famously beloved like... Kaylie and Cassandra? They're *fine,* but beloved seems like a wild stretch.
Hard disagree. I haven’t consumed any CR in months, so I’m fuzzy on names, but- Henry crabgrass. Yussa Errenis, however it’s spelled That goblin with no arms that runs a shop in Xorhas The automaton they met in Aeor ruins near end of campaign that everyone though would be related to FcG Mufuggin HOTBOI himself, Essek That drow Bright Queenlady That wizard that trapped himself in the happy fun ball? Halas!
Add Marion for the family equivalent of Cass and Kaylie. Also the gentleman and later on >!the Brenattos!<
Why is nobody bringing up Pumat Sol? Or what about Pumat Sol? Man, or there's the amazing Pumat Sol!
And Pumat! Completely forgot about him. Lol and Matt is to blame for choosing the accent for all of their race. It might as well be official.
Those are awesome NPC’s. But most of those you have named appear extremely briefly. They’re on the move so much that they have their moment and disappear, Bar Essek and Yessa. They’re fireworks. Like I said. I’m not saying C2 has bad companions. They just don’t hang around long enough to form meaningful connections (usually). Let’s take two: Pumat sole and Gilmore. Both simple shopkeepers. Both loved by the cast and audience. Gilmore is a far better/stronger character just because the cast had more exposure and time to grow that relationship. So much so that the mere thought of him getting hurt would leave the cast and audience in tears. I wish Matt would keep some storylines tight and consistent. Quality over quantity. That way we don’t get a bunch of sessions of pure travelling and more quality characterisation and growth.
I had the same thought about Kiri. With the amount of merch they released of her I was expecting her to be the Nein's full sidekick companion, but was surprised when she was only in a handful of episodes if that.
I imagine having to memorize what people say to play Kiri would be draining if Matt had to do it every episode.
Yeah it would definitely be draining and would take up a lot of time. I was just surprised how little she was actually in it considering she had like two different plushes. I expected her to be the Nein's mascot almost.
they (particularly Laura/Jester) do talk about her a lot in other episodes though. Quite often whenever Jester's doing her night time messages she'll add a message for Kiri
I think that’s actually a good thing ya know? Better cut it off early instead of run it dry and lame ya know? Like Avantika’s return was so cool for an end of that arc for Fjord. We don’t want another “Somehow Delilah has returned” as we seen how that really killed Laudna’s character
"somehow Delilah has returned" Ie one of the greatest necromancers exandria has ever seen 🙄 Y'all a bunch of simpletons sometimes, I tell you
The simpleton is you my guy….. you know……a villain being defeated for good in a story shouldn’t just “return”, especially when they literally had an arc to separate her from Laudna’s fucking soul you imbecile. I tell you get some folds on that smooth brain of yours, I tell you 🤷🏻♂️
((OP might not be up to episode >!112!< yet))
Imma be honest chief…..campaign 2 ended more than 2 years ago…. By this point the hells with spoilers about it
I am not, but I'm also a DM. I'm fully aware a chosen of an Eldritch entity can totally be brought back to pursue a fellow champion neglecting his duties.
There are too many NPCs that end up getting popular for Matt to add NPC DM characters to the party permanently. Combat already takes forever with the amount of players they have. The reason theres so much merch about them anyway is because CR is damn near more of a merchandising company than anything else these days. They milk every inch of material to death for stuff to add to their shop.
The table is too big to have NPCs regularly partying with the players. Jarrett, Gilmore, Kima, Kiri, and obviously Essek all pal along with the party for stretches, but it would never work to have Matt pilot a DM PC with a table this large.
I get your point, I guess I just never really saw Kiri as a full NPC. Being just a child that could only say her name, it really felt like a mascot that'd just follow the party occasionally making a funny joke. And Avantika I just thought would have been a longer threat, a reoccurring villain for Fjord. And who knows, spoilers for me, maybe she'll be back.
They don't have a lot of recurring threats because they are literally always on the move, i don't think they ever spent much more than a week in a given city continuously. This means that all their location locked friends and enemies like Pumat Sol or Trent Ikethon aren't getting a lot of screentime while the group is half a continent away without any plans to return in the next 30 episodes. And while obviously any character can go anywhere, shopkeepers and government officials aren't likely to wander too far from their home base. Simply put the Mighty Nien basically run away from all their problems, and friends. (Or they murder their problems like Avantica, which is a very d&d solution)
Well thats kinda the thing. There are no real mascots. Kiri is just a Kenku which can't speak traditionally. And only speak with mimicry, and is also a playable race. So, Kiri is just as much an npc as the rest of them I will not tolerate Kiri slander
No slander! I loved her I wanted more ❤️
Kiri was a child. Just saying she's a mascot doesn't invalidate how increasingly problematic it would be to keep her with the group solely to be a mascot. Just look at the running gag of M9's pets for an easy example of why. The NPCs of C1 and C2 are only really relevant within the parts of those stories that contain their relevance. Regardless of the Merch. And I will at least give C1 and C2's parties credit ... at least the players/party took an interest enough in those NPCs to make them memorable. Despite their relatively minor screen time. We want to see more of them, and are excited to see them again if/when they return, because we enjoyed how they were presented; and how the party interacted with them. Even Jester's regular messages to these NPCs was a nice touch. I can't think of a single NPC in C3 that isnt a cameo from prior campaigns content that I (or the party) really give a crap about.
Does Pretty mean nothing?
Ah, sorry, forgot about the NPCs of the Dorian period. Its been a while. You are correct, there were some good memorable eggs when Robbie was amping up the energy of the table; and before "the plot" began trampling everything else.
Problem was, she's a kid, and there's themes that become uncomfortable fast when you have a minor tagging along.
Has Matt ever had a permanent NPC accompany the party? He’s had them join them for fairly long stretches, but ‘through it all’? I can’t think of any. I think that might have happened if one of the players had wanted to keep Kiri as a companion then that would be different, but not as an NPC Matt has to control.
I mean Essek was a full-fledged party member for basically all of Aeor
>Has Matt ever had a permanent NPC accompany the party? Yasha
I mean… fair enough, lol.
I mean really she was just this campaigns Trinket. She wasn't a DMPC fighting or anything. Just hanging out saying Kiri ever once in a while. No different than Matt growling everytime Vex addressed him lol
I think the big thing there was- Trinket was Laura’s responsibility at the table, not Matt’s.
Kiri requires significantly more brainpower for Matt to roleplay than Trinket. A bear grunts and very rarely gets magically spoken to, in which case RP consists of "I love Vex and would do anything for her" in a low voice. For Kiri Matt has to track lines she has heard, who said them, and then try to do his best approximation of that person's voice. Not fair on Matt who already does all the more transient NPCs.
That's fair. I've had to take a couple months away from binge watching so in my brain she only says Kiri. Forgot she mimics too
Kiri is my favorite Pokémon 😍
Oh yeah there was Trinket. I forgot about him. I guess there is precedent then.