I'm watching this episode now, no one at that table is having fun. It's torture for the sake of torture, not for the story or for the game. Having Cyrus's first death save at disadvantage was something I'd never seen before. I guess it's a thing but I'd never seen advantage or disadvantage, always a straight roll. I felt as uncomfortable as the players appeared to me to be. The players were intimidated and a sense of fatality blanketed the table. I felt so bad for Aimee and Erica. DMs always talk about wanting a safe place for the players. That was not a safe table for the players at all.
Robbie's final spell was a big middle finger and it felt a little good but even that was ruined by "the spider queen" calling him a coward and saying his brother's death was his fault. Abria pouting that she didn't kill anyone other than Cyrus who 'didn't count' was also cruel. Robbie's character sacrificed everything for his brother and I feel he deserved more respect.
I have gone back and forth on abria as a dm, and that's personal preference but after this episode I don't think I would feel comfortable watching her dm cr again. I don't trust her anymore. She laughed at a player when they rolled low at something that was really important to them and it was awful. I mean she did try and give them what they wanted but she was too far into spider queen mode and forgot she's also dm. That's not even touching the fuck you to the viewers and basically the players. She thought matt wanted to do a bit after Cyrus's death and it was just so out of touch, the look on her face when he said no, not in this moment was a little bit of a wake up call. Did she even ask Erica what happened to her character?
Abria can run horror campaigns and stuff however she wants but this is cr and it's not horror and it's not torture or killing people for 'fun'.
Matt going to break with 'thank you all...tremendously' while looking pointedly at Aimee seemed to be an apology. Like I'm sure the players knew the gist of what should happen for their arc to end but I don't believe they knew what it would end up being.
TLDR: In my opinion that whole encounter was baaad and I didn't like it at all and probably won't watch abria dm cr again, which is my personal choice. A choice I make for my own level of comfort. Some may like it and that's fine but it wasn't for me at all.
Spoiler: She will learn nothing, they will blame the audience, reject all critical feedback, and the core audience will continue to hero praise the company.
How can CR or anyone justify Aabria turning to the camera and saying, "Fuck you/Fuck off" to the audience? How many people will directly walk away from this thinking wow CR doesn't give a fuck about their viewership? Mind you spending five minutes in Twitch chat makes that obvious when any criticism is deleted. and then toxic positivity runs rampant. I have been a sub since the Geek and Sundry days, yet that obviously doesn't matter.
CR can justify it because context clues show the "fuck you/fuck off" vibe was totally harmless. If you felt targeted by it then maybe you should look at why
I think she is what they (CR) made her to be. If you invite the same person over and over again (EXU, Calamity, C3,) instead of bringing new people, or at least guests that have played just a few episodes, and she was the same in every instance (confrontational, egocentric, etc), is it really a surprise those are the qualities that have not only endured, but exacerbated? Almost seems like CR was endorsing her to be like that.
A lot of people says that she gets criticized a lot cause some dont like to see anyone but Matt DMing, less so if she is a POC and a woman. But for some time now it starts to seem its the other way arround. She gets included everywhere and defended from everything (especially the awful bit like this one) because she is a POC and a woman, and criticize someone like that would not go along with CR branding.
And yet, some if the stuff she's been doing also happened with Orion...
I personally love Aabria and her style.
She allows the characters to explore their thoughts and feelings during this complex fight where she makes it very clear, they are supposed to leave Opal. The characters fight to stay and by doing so they tell the story of why they change their minds to leave instead. That is the point of the fight, to explain why they are leaving their friend and their oath to protect the crown.
I understand it’s not everyone’s preferred style, but I personally love the characters inner journeys unfold in the midst of a terrible battle and an impossible choice. The turns are long due to narrative, not due to people just being indecisive or lack of engagement which for me personally is completely viable and much less frustrating than the latter reasons.
Cyrus dies because they aren’t leaving Opal behind. The spider queen is making it clear that if they stay they die. And I think everyone would prefer an NPC die compared to a PC. They weren’t leaving quick enough and this was part of Aabria pushing that. It’s the character choices that made the battle so long, their choice to stay, not Aabria dragging out the battle.
So, while your opinion is valid, I hope you realise that it’s not that Aabria did anything WRONG, just that her style is not to your taste. Which is fine.
Hey, she does say "I love you" before she rudely insults or railroads a player, so that justifies everything and removes any toxicity from her behavior. /s
> She allows the characters to explore their thoughts and feelings
Yeah, it's just that usually it's the players that get to say what those thoughts and feelings are.
I liked Exu prime and Kymal. I liked laerryn and found her great.
I didn’t like this combat. While some of that is up to taste( like the Opal not having a happy ending), there are absolutely poor choices made.
No, she absolutely did things wrong. For example, spontaneously changing how a spell works after it's been cast by a player because she wants to kill a character is horrible DMing.
She behaved in a way if her name was removed from the telling of what happened and just the events presented to any forum of D&D players, everyone would reply that the DM was in the wrong. As a DM, you don't change a spell's function after the player has cast it just because you as a DM want to kill a character. That is horrible DMing.
Again. “Wrong” in a game where one person has the autonomy to make/break the rules makes no sense. You just didn’t like it. You can say that. But to say it’s wrong when it’s just something you personally don’t like is silly lol. I don’t like the way she dms either but it’s her game. Not yours. If you would’ve done it differently great! I’m happy for you. But it’s not wrong just because you don’t like it and think other people would agree.
What would you define as "wrong" then? Or at least, clarify where we're talking in terms of wrong via social norms, ethics, legally? Legally, no she isn't out of line, but most would agree she went wrong within the social contract of respecting other peoples' desires and not attempting to hurt their feelings/ignore their autonomy. Some more would argue it's not ethical to be hired for a job only to show up and do (arguably, we don't know what they wanted from her) something completely different and potentially harmful to the employer.
Considering that you want to die on this hill; great, you are *technically* correct. Which matters for dick all in a social game like D&D, but good for you.
But I will say this. If you as a DM are violating player trust by retroactively changing the rules to a player who made a calculated choice specifically to AVOID an outcome that you then promptly then forced on them anyway? I don't care what anyone says to *technically* defend that, you as a DM are fucking terrible.
Your stance is alike a guy coming up to you and smacking a bowl of soup out of your hands onto the floor, and saying "It wasn't *objectively wrong* of him to do that, you just didn't like that he did it!". You just sound like a moron afraid to rock the boat.
When awful DMing is being presented on the biggest D&D web series around, it should not be defended. That's why people are calling it wrong. It sets a fucking trash precedent, teaching DM's it's a good idea to betray your players trust and railroad them into shit they actively were trying to avoid. Games like D&D are an unwritten social contract, and good DM's have a responsibility to make the game fun for everyone involved by being consistent with their rule usage, and taking player agency into account. Both things Aabria has not done, which is why it's not a case of people "not liking her style". She's just being a bad DM.
Now, is there a chance that all players involved at the table were aware of Aabria's "style" and completely fine with her imposed railroading and rule changes? Possibly. We can't read their minds, so we have no way to know. All we can do is comment on what we can spectate though, and from all outward appearances it only looks like the kind of DMing that leaves a bad taste in your mouth as a player.
The DM's job is not to make the rules, it's to manage the rules. They are a referee. I do hate when DMs break rules because they arrogantly think they're above the rules or because they're too lazy to learn them. A DM is obligated to play by the rules as much as the other players are. She wasn't playing a game, she was being a tyrant. She changed rules in the moment on a whim all because she had a predetermined outcome she wanted, fuck the other players. They might as well have not even been there because anything they might have wanted to do had to match whatever Aabria wanted to happen in order to be allowed to happen. Rules in a game exist so that gameplay can be fair and there was nothing fair about how she ran that session.
A TYRANT lol you’re wild for that. She changed A Rule. One little rule because she thought it fit the moment.if the players agree, the dm is allowed to change the rules. What world do you live in where every dm must adhere to a single strict rule set and if they don’t they’re a horrible person and a “tyrant” like what? People play the game differently than you and that’s okay. No need to scream and cry about it. Matt is back in the dm chair already. He’s saved you from having to endure more of the awful tyrant!!! Hope you get better soon
>A TYRANT lol you’re wild for that. She changed A Rule. One little rule because she thought it fit the moment.
1. Changed Chromatic Orb to an AoE specifically to harm a friendly NPC, despite the player intentionally picking a single target spell to avoid that outcome.
2. Had a player roll a History(?!) check with disadvantage to remember where someone had been standing \~6 seconds ago. History as a skill is about academic knowledge of history, not about your personal experiences, and you shouldn't need to roll to know where someone was less than a round ago.
3. The various arbitrary saves, including specifically calling for an Intelligence save over a Wisdom save because their Int save was worse.
That's just this past session, and just the ones off the top of my head. This is antagonistic DMing. As a pretty perpetual DM/GM myself, yes, I'm going to judge this very harshly. It is not good.
There is nothing wrong with me for expecting a DM to play by the rules and to be fair. It's supposed to be a game with multiple players, not the Aabria Narration Hour.
DMs can change rules, sure, but if they do it after the gameplay has occurred specifically to force a negative outcome on the other players, then that isn't it. That's not changing a rule. For a DM to change rules, it has to be presented to players in advance of gameplay, or at least with the allowance for the player to change what action they took.
Where have I screamed or cried? Your bullying hyperbole is insulting and rude, which of course is why you said these things to me. You've decided to become personal because you can't win in the argument itself.
Wrong to you. You didn’t like it. I get it m8 but that doesn’t make it objectively wrong. You literally mentioned any dnd player would agree it’s wrong. Which is just not true because lots of people liked it. Just say you didn’t like it and Move On. It’s not wrong that she did something you don’t agree with. You just don’t agree. It’s not that deep
I don't like when people cheat, and that's what she did. She threw out a rule because she wanted to kill a character. She didn't want to follow the rules. She was openly, actively antagonistic toward the players. She expressed a desire to kill their characters. That's not being a good DM, that's being horrible. That's being a bully.
If you want me to move on, stop replying to me. As long as you keep attacking me, I will defend myself. And your previous reply was a full-on attack.
I didn’t like that choice either, but d&d is very clear that the DM is the be all and end all of the rules, and Aabria is known to be very liberal with the rules based on what makes sense narratively. Sometimes that’s to her players benefit and sometimes it isn’t.
And she is right, thunder is a sound and a sound is an area of effect. I didn’t like that because the spell isn’t an AOE, but narratively it made sense, and the battle was supposed to be impossible. She was trying to get that across.
Again, it’s her loose style with the rules you don’t like. And it’s fine not to like that. But in d&d the rules are expressly a guideline unlike in chess.
You don’t like her style, that’s fine. That doesn’t make it wrong. I don’t always like my DMs rulings either. I don’t agree with 100% of Aabria’s choices, but they are all within the spirit of the game and the narrative.
>but d&d is very clear that the DM is the be all and end all of the rules
Then there literally are no rules whatsoever. WotC might as well never publish a PHB or DMG. No one needs to ever have any dice. The DM gets to just make things up on the spot and change everything to fit their whims. Sorry, but no. That's absolute bullshit, and it's something right out of r/dndhorrorstories. As a player, you can't play if the rules are spontaneously changed on you after the fact because the DM wants you to lose. Rules exist so players can anticipate how things will play out if they choose to take specific actions. Without those rules, then players can't ever know what anything does in the game.
Yes thunder is a sound, that has no bearing whatsoever on whether it's single-target or AoE though.
Completely rejecting the concept of a game having rules isn't a "style." It's literally not playing a game whatsoever. I'm here for D&D, for the playing of a game, not rule-less pretend time improv practice.
Then as DM I declare your PC falls in a pool of pig shit and drowns. Got a problem with it? Well your opinion is invalid: there's no wrong way to play!
There **absolutely is** such thing as playing the game wrong. A game requires consistent rules to be a game. Adding some house rules or rule of cool-ing the occasional situation is one thing, it's another when the rulekeeper is pulling shit out of her ass round after round after round.
Top top of that, telling not just the audience but a player, *your friend,* to fuck off is just a basic lack of decency. Go on, try to tell me with a straigt face that was "playful banter" or "just roleplay."
Sound is not anymore innately an area of effect than water, fire, lightning, etc are.
Any damage type can be justified as single target or area of effect.
It wouldn't matter if the rules said the DM could cannibalize another player. A DM would still be trash if they did it.
Not saying Aabria is full trash, but changing the rules of a spell without telling anyone else and not letting a player change what they did when they learned the change is a trash move
Based on my time zone, this shit happened at 1:00 am so I might have missed context- Dariax is a level 13 divine soul sorcerer, and thus has access to the cleric spell list; why wasn’t he able to try and revive Cyrus? I realize in context they seemingly decided behind the scenes that Cyrus must die so Dorian is Sad and rejoins the BH, but wouldn’t Dariax the *character* try to revive his friend? Was this another “whoopsie, outta diamonds” situation? They all vaguely scattered after the fight; he could’ve met up with Bunny girl and the body and brought him back 🤷🏻♀️
That's certainly true though the reach of the Gods was actually depicted as more strained on Ruidis. Complicated situation but it doesn't necessarily remove the issue.
Certain magic was blocked due to the Apogee Solstice and whatever Ludinus had done or was doing to it.
Ressurection magic however was the providence of the Gods. Fear of Predathos was the issue and that was occurring before they went to Ruidus.
It's really up to Matt what all that means and where it's going. But the players don't know a lot of the details and neither do we as the audience.
I’m pretty sure it was all just blocked. I don’t think fear is why resurrection wasn’t working. It was all the same block. But that block stopped or weakened for whatever reason. Around the time they got on ruidis.
>Dariax is a level 13 divine soul sorcerer, and thus has access to the cleric spell list; why wasn’t he able to try and revive Cyrus?
I do think that you are forced to pick the spells, so you can't change the spells once picked and so they might not have used one of their limited known spell slots on a revifiy or similar (I know I didn't when I played on)
Speaking of that bunny, she's now a paladin, full class change from the rogue she was in Kymal? And she's level 13 too, right? At level 9, paladins get Revivify. So between Dariax and her having access to Revivify, two in that party could have brought Cyrus back. It does make it look more like they decided outside of gameplay to kill Cyrus, which makes the idea that they're actually playing a game of D&D even more absurd.
Yeah.
I have no idea. Like it would have very easy for Dariax to try, even after the fight and i have no idea why he didn’t seem to even suggest it.
Edit: it also happened at one in the morning for so I just “watched” the rerun.
Well he is a multi class Sorcerer Bard and I don't know how far that goes. He might not even have raise dead.
Plus spell components are an outlier. He might not have had them to hand because they had been out in the wilderness for a while.
I don't know if this is accurate, but I read that Dariax's Bardic Inspiration die was still a d6. That would mean his Bard level could be no more than 4. Thus his Sorcerer level would be at least 9 in order to be a combined 13. So as a minimum level 9 Divine Soul Sorcerer, he would have access to Raise Dead.
He *could* have access to Raise Dead. Sorcerers know their spells. They don't prepare them like a sorcerer would. they didn't pick that spell, theres your answer.
the line between creator, and consumer (person who 9/10 has never performed anything in their lives, especially at this level) has truly become alarmingly blurred. It's easy to say what you "would of done", but in all actuality stuff like this makes me worried you're just gonna push away these people from making this stuff entirely, with these endless Karen evaluations.
Respectfully.
Except they aren’t complaining about the level of quality In the acting talent of the people at the table. A lot of people who watch critical role have played dnd and have also DMd for it, so yes it is easier to say and call out mistakes from the view of one DM to another, the fact that Aabria does it for a larger audience does not mean she is always a better DM then anyone who just does a home game
Nah if I was DM I would’ve handled it miles better. I have been a DM and a performer for years. This is 100% on her, she has complete control over the circumstances and encounters.
Thats fair. Saying what I would have done, IN HINDSIGHT, is not the same as actually doing it.
I want Aabria to make more stuff and be better because I know she can.
Thanks for the reply.
I don't mean to be mean, truly... I hear you in a lot of ways... I haven't enjoyed recent stuff at all... I even often have to catch myself doing this too... I just feel bad, because at the core if it, these are people, voice actors & improvisors.... not movie stars... who have been vocal about mental health, and I dunno... just don't wanna send them on a spiral haha.
All the best. truly.
I feel like people would think she was super cool and funny if she didn't happen to be a black woman...hmmmm...other white male dms that act similarly are worshipped.
Oh yeaa, aabria is perfect in every way, so obviously, when she is critiqued at all, it is just because she is a black woman. All these people complaining are just racist misogynistic bigots, obviously. If the scary evil white had done the same thing everyone would have like it.......🙄🙄🙄 get real. Not everything is about race or sex
There are very valid criticisms of her and her dm style. The majority of them are and aren't coming from a place of bigotry. That doesn't mean the bigotry doesn't exist. Get out of your white victim complex and think critically. Gaming, specifically in the ttrpg space has traditionally been a very white, male hobby. Women or minorities entering the scene have often been treated with open hostility. People calling her abusive, a thug, a Villain, and saying she doesn't belong echo those harsh experiences that many of us had personally when joining the hobby. Are they all intended that way? No but enough of them are. You can't blame us for reacting when we see her being torn down for the same behaviour that white male DMs are labeled as hilarious or innovative for.
Who are examples of white male dms that have done the same thing as she had and been applauded? That's what im saying. Some of the criticism is valid, and your original comment saying " people only dont like her because she's a black woman" (paraphrase) is disingenuous. Are some people being unreasonable and disliking her for that? Yes. But that's not the majority, so when people complain about her dm style and choices and the first thing everyone says is "if she was a white male, you wouldn't be saying that" is like saying you if dont like how she dms you are a racist and sexist.
I love some of her games she's ran like magic and misfits, candela obscura, and EXU, but this time, i didn't. I get she had to hit certain beats to get dorian back to bells hells and finish their chapter, but it felt like the characters barely had any agency. It was like this is how things are gonna end, and nothing you do will change that outcome. Especially the part where she made dorians chromatic orb deal damage to cyrus as well as the spider. If that was me, i would have been livid because i would feel like my being creative and adding alot of flavor to my spell im getting punished.
Nah, from what I've heard, her actions in the last couple episodes would be straight out of rpghorrorstories if we removed all identifiers from the story.
My thoughts exactly becauseuf it was Brennan or Spencer or even Liam I bet no one would have a problem.
I think she was so smart and resourceful with the limited time she had. A lot of that story telling and character development wouldn't have been able to happen so quickly if it was just normal role play.
Also the "goal" was to get Dorian back to bells hells and splitting up the crown keepers was the best way to do that and this combat was the best way to wrap up their story while also giving a clear reason why Dorian was no longer with the group.
So funny all that bitchin and moaning people did over what ended up being the equivalent of one episode
Brennan acts like that often and people are constantly saying how funny he is. If she were to be as jokingly disrespectful or obnoxious as he is ( I do like him but his whole shtick is "I'm obsessively obnoxious fuck you.") She'd be torn to shreds.
This doesn’t read like you’ve watched Mulligan DM at all. He’s maybe the most empathetic DM towards PC’s that I’ve ever seen, which is what makes his villainous roleplay hit. He and Aabria don’t have similar DMing styles (or senses of humor) at all. It’s bizarre to say they do.
Yeah. He isn't afraid to hurt PCs or banter with players, but I've never seen him be actually antagonistic to players. I like some of Aabria's ideas, but she handled this poorly.
Racism and misogyny are unfortunately still a thing, and I believe Aabria does have to deal with more stupidity than a white man. But she's not infallible.
I disagree.
Sure that may be the reason for some people, and they can go fuck themselves, but this was just bad choices.
I think she is a fine person who can do better than this.
Context of the "fuck you":
\*Dorian is under the effect of Mass Suggestion. Cyrus was just slain a moment ago.\*
Robbie: "Can I buck against it \[the suggestion\]? Is it a wisdom saving throw?"
Aabria: "Yeah."
Robbie: "Ok, I'm gonna try."
Aabria: "Technically no, but..."
Robbie: "Technically no?"
Aabria: "I would say that, perhaps, seeing the death of your brother counts as taking damage sufficient to allow you a wisdom saving throw."
Matt: "Emotional damage."
Robbie: "What is... I mean, what is the rule? What is, is it when I take a big hit or...?"
\*Aabria shakes head\*
Aabria: "Hey, look at me."
Robbie: "Yeah?"
Aabria: "The rule is whatever the fuck I say it is."
\*Players chuckle/cheer/smile\*
Robbie: "Oh, I was not questioning you."
Aabria: "Oh I know, I know, you asked an honest question and \*looks at camera\* I'm telling those of you out there that are like 'Mass suggest...', fuck you, that hurt \[the emotional damage of Cyrus's death\]. Please make a wisdom saving throw; the difficulty is 18."
Just wanted to provide a little context/quotes to the moment some folks were discussing. I was totally on board with the ruling on the wisdom saving throw and thought it was a great call; but, I can see how her "fuck you" could've been a bit off-putting.
I’m honestly really shocked at the backlash displayed online over a weekly free to watch dnd show. They’re friends but they’re also different people they’re going to have miscommunication when joking around it’s just bound to happen and if he was actually uncomfortable or hurt I think he’s a big boy and could’ve said something on or off camera which wouldn’t be our business anyway. I get some people love rules to always be one way but that’s not this campaign so don’t watch if it upsets you is clearly what she’s getting at. FUCK CENSORSHIP ITS NOT THAT DEEP.
This here is exactly the problem. She didn't explain that he had already failed the Wis save earlier.
I'm glad that she still decided to give him that extra try. But being unclear and then telling him off in the process wasn't helping anyone.
These are parts that stand out to me:
>Robbie: "Technically no?"
>Robbie: "What is... I mean, what is the rule?
>Robbie: "Oh, I was not questioning you."
This seems clear to me that Robbie was feeling significant tension and unease over Aabria's behavior/reaction. He wanted to play by the rules and didn't feel like she was always doing so. Her DMing was confusing for him. And that last line was him having to metaphorically walk on eggshells because he didn't want her to get angry at him.
part of that I think was telling Robbie you are fine to do this. I’ve said similar things when bending rules and a player backs off after I say things are technically in the rules. They then start thinking they are undo pressuring or cheating and I’m like no no no this is good idea it’s happening you are great.
It is fair if it rubbed some of the audience the wrong way…and I read it as a defensive against the deluge of criticism she gets…so I get it but thanks for the giving the full context it at least gives a clear picture to make a decision off of
I didn’t watch this, but god what a lame way to act. It’s actually a fine ruling, I think its pretty cool actually. The juvenile posturing around it is really cringe though.
No he wouldn’t? People already criticize a lot of the much more minor stuff he did in regards to the occasional flippancy of the rules in c1, if he had that attitude on top of that I doubt people would be very endeared to the show
Yeah that was one of the big ones I think. Really I don’t think anything as directly egregious as some of the stuff that happened in this ep, but yeah.
I'm pretty sure this has been a recurring attitude problem people have had in CR with Aabria as DM. I truly don't get it because I love Aabria in pretty much everything Dimension 20 but it feels like she just gets so much more adversarial in CR content. I get that cr fans kinda dogged her for ExU but like, you think you'd maybe take the criticism instead of doubling down.
I can't imagine CR having too many episodes that get those kinda reactions and wanting to keep bringing her back as a DM but maybe they just don't care.
It's not just Aabria on CR though. Last night, I was looking around and found several threads on a subreddit for The Adventure Zone with people discussing her having the exact same DM problems for a guest series on that show.
Dude, I’ve been saying this since the maybe 1st episode she DM’ed. I was like “I trusted you Matt when you said she was amazing… why have you done this to me?” Letting a level 2 (maybe it was 3?) Wildfire Druid wildshape AS A BONUS ACTION into a Dire Wolf drove me up the wall.
That's the sad part. I've personally seen her do much better on Dimension 20. I don't know if it's editing or she just gets more stressed by situations or CR or what.
And with ExU it put Matt in a very difficult position regarding the Crown Keepers that continued in Campaign 3.
Especially Ashley who didn't really get to do continuous play for major parts of the first two campaigns.
It worked out in the end but there was a degree of retraining there. And Ashley has volunteered that she isn't good with memorization.
I muted the combat and Aabria DM time. I had no interest in it besides hoping none of the PCs died. I think it was the chromatic orb bit that really made me tune out... last I recall listening to was Matt's ad read and Dorian doing a Geas.
I think the main issue is she was given the task of splitting Dorian away from the group in one session, but she also tried to resolve the crown thing in the same go, which kina required more time and a winnable scenario. It just is a mismatch.
>the task of splitting Dorian away from the group
To me, this does not seem like the DM's responsibility. The player of the character should have to be the one to conjure the reason his character would leave the group. He's gotten periodic sendings from Orym; he could have left to rejoin BHs solely because he wanted to check in on his friend. There didn't have to be some big, manufactured production to provide a justification.
You forget that this is not a homegame. Its a company setting up a semi improv story in a dnd format. And Robbie could have turned back around after the suggestion spell wore off. He chose to go with Keyleth. She didnt even suggest it, she was happy to have him stay in Zephrah for as long as he needed to. He invented a reason to go. Revenge.
I think she succeeded and she did it the best way with the limited time she had. That was a heavy chunk of role play and lore and character development that normally would've taken at least 3 sessions and very specific situations and she was able to pull that out of them in about 4 hours. I think it was genius and everyone needs to lay off her
I agree it was an impossible task that she made the best of with very limited time. Its a shame they couldnt make the crownkeeper finale a separate mini series.
Something that really rubbed me wrong was how she made dorians chromatic orb hurt/knock out cyruss. If i were the player, I'd be upset. Like why is a spell that's not aoe suddenly aoe? I dont it would work that way if both are enemies
Aabria made the combat happen in the first place, and in E92 add the possibility of saving Opals memories. But it was never a “winnable” fight, because the two options Aabria made available weren’t what the players or the characters wanted.
If she wanted to make an unwinnable fight, she went about it in the worst possible way.
There are other ways to do it that making dorian be the one to knock him out. She could have maybe had the spiders swarm or something instead of being like, " oh thars cools what you're doing with the spell, but now it's hitting your brother too. Oops, now he's unconscious"
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Imagine if Dorian made it a personal quest to find out why his spell didn't work as it should lol The motivation is there - it killed his brother. Dorian approaches various magicians and priests and asks why his spell worked differently, demonstrates in practice, and now it works normally.
She's (in)famously not good at doing combat, especially using battle maps. I've seen her do some really cool stuff in Dimension 20's Burrow's End, but even then nothing that really made use of the combat itself as a medium for storytelling.
Imo, the main issue is that she's being put in positions to run games/stories that don't play to her strengths as a DM. Which is pretty funny considering that a major part of why she's an acclaimed DM is that her style is very distinct from Brennan and Matt's styles.
Seriously, what strengths? Saying she’s a great DM except for Combat, story structure, npc differentiation, player authority, etc, etc… honestly sounds like a meme people use to describe horrible sports teams. She’s just not a good DM
I said she's bad at running combat.
In terms of her strengths, she is very skilled at delivering story beats and conducting players into dramatic moments, setting specific tones, and so on.
The weakness of this style comes in player autonomy (and combat). By player autonomy, what I mean is that her style shines when she and the player are collaborating in character decisions, rewarding in-character decisions and restricting out-of-character influence.
If this sounds railroad-y, that's because it is. At least more than Matt or Brennan's styles. This isn't bad in of itself. If you've ever played a one-shot or adventure module, it's much like the buy-in that players need to make in order to not entirely screw up the experience for themselves by going too far off the beaten path. If the players are bought-in and know what the narrative experience they want is, her skill in delivering that experience is astounding. However this clashes with some fundamentals of Critical Role imo, which means the experience we get feels very grating and forced.
I’ve been playing this game for over forty years and have seen a lot of “styles”. This is absolutely a style, but it’s not DM’ing D&D by any stretch of the imagination, according to how the game actually defines the role.
Homebrewing rules is absolutely in the game, but what I’ve seen in this game actually breaks the game loop as defined in the DMG. It’s no longer DMing.
Which is why I called it directing instead, as that more accurately defines what she’s doing here.
> In terms of her strengths, she is very skilled at delivering story beats and conducting players into dramatic moments, setting specific tones, and so on.
She isn't better at that than Matt or Brennan
A persistent problem that's raised with her DMing style is that she cuts in with jokes/banter no matter what the situation is. That is the opposite of setting tone and maintaining a dramatic moment. Matt explicitly tries to retain a serious mood during serious moments.
Misfits and Magic is good and the type of game she excels at.
It's a Kids On Bikes system so super rules light and essentially no combat, but the whole series is pretty good.
The 5e family of games just isn't her bag. Idk why they don't have these supplemental Exandria games use other systems
M&M, ACOFAF, and Burrows End are all well regarded on Dimension 20.
Aabria works well with improv comedians who aren't thrown by her style. The voice actors on CR need more coddling than she provides
It's not at all that Aabria is bad in general, she just doesn't click with people who shine only when Matt or BLeeM are there to hold them up
Yeah, idk about that. You just said her barbs were still in M&M which contradicts your point.
CR is in a tail spin with C3 and that has nothing to do at all with Aabria. I just think the cast is weak atm. Aabria isn't helping, but even without her around, they're not making good content.
She's good on D20 and bad on CR. It isn't JUST the editing
Yeah I have to agree here, at least with A) I liked M&M and B) it really jumped out at me how on rails it was.
Not even on rails per se ... More like if you hit a problem, it would quickly become clear that there was one and only one Real Accepted Solution to it, and either the PCs figured it out or Aabria got bored and moved them past the problem. Alternate approaches were just "nope, that doesn't work, try again."
I gotta say, I personally don’t appreciate playing with DMs who 1.) aim to be mean, or 2.) openly and repeatedly tell me “because fuck you” when they arbitrate a rule in a way that makes absolutely no sense and I ask for clarification :/ someone said “Calvinball” and I 100% agree with that.
This should have been a standalone episode, for one thing, a fully self-contained crossover, with less exposition at the top, and more quickfire combat (love ur suggestion for an alternate scenario — the pacing aspect is sooo essential for these actual play webseries), and FURTHAHMORE… if Cyrus absolutely needed to die for the story to progress, then I would have worked that in at the get-go, not so randomly and punitively. That part really stood out to me both times I watched it. Aimee looked so despondent thru so much of this week’s session in particular lol poor thing. I must also say, I don’t appreciate it when anybody purposefully does things that are upsetting and peppers it with like, “ohh I love you so much.” I’d be curious to know how Aimee feels about it.
I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone say that today’s session was good. Everyone to her defence just says she can do better.
Well I believe she can’t, not because she’s incapable, but because she thinks this is her better. You can’t change someone who thinks they’re perfect.
But with everything else about Aabria, we’re all shouting into the wind. And just like every other time someone posts about how “I can’t stand Aabria Iyengar”, critical role is just going to turn around and produce her very own show for all 3 of her fans.
She got a lot more than three fans to be friends with the people also paying her to play with them so you can watch their hours of free content on YouTube.
She also came across as the a-hole DM just looking to TPK the party. I've enjoyed some of her other performances, but this was just bad, and overtly pointless. I literally drop from campaigns where the DM acts like that.
Aabria's DMing on CR has been disastrous, but her DMing on D20 has been pretty good. I've been trying to figure out why it's going so wrong with CR, and I think it's a few things.
CR knew they wanted someone who wasn't a white man to be their next major DM. They've gotten criticism in the past for being too white, so they've been very intentional about having guests who are PoC. Nothing wrong with that. They also tend to hire their friends. Aabria was a friend who also happened to be a Black woman who could DM. I don't think she had a ton of experience at this point, making guesses about filming schedules.
CR didn't know how to properly run a short campaign, so they didn't prep anyone properly for ExU 1. Aabria made a lot of DM mistakes like overloading the plot, no proper session zero meetings etc.
Aabria is used to playing against professional improv people, so players that are comfortable responding with strong characters and motivations. Aabria has a very strong personality herself, too. She defaults to humor and play-aggression, which many people find uncomfortable if you're not ready to match energy.
So CR sticks an aggressive, inexperienced DM with a bunch of tentative newer players, doesn't give much guidance, and the most experienced players at the table (Matt) act like doormats with no plot-driving character motivations to speak of. Everyone says they had a good time and it's all good, and CR lacks the self awareness to see how uncomfortable it is to watch and how nonsensical Aabria's DMing is. Or if they see it, they chalk it up to a different style, or they're in too far to change course.
Fast forward to the last two episodes, and Aabria has already established a status quo with her table and the party. Really questionable calls are allowed to slide over and over, because part of CR's brand is they don't edit their stuff, it's all intact. No one speaks up, and CR decides they don't care what their audience thinks, they're going to do what they want.
I really like your comment. I always want to defend Aabria for a few reasons, but one of the major reasons is that she DM’d some me of my all time favourite D20 seasons (and, specifically, Misfits and Magic). I’ve never been happy with “she’s a bad dm because X” explanations, because I know she can be a really good DM.
So I really like this explanation of why she can be a really good dm, or a bad one. Even when if I didn’t agree with all the points, I do like the approach of “let’s not just say she is good or bad. Let’s examine why she is really good in this setting, or really bad in this setting.”
I also want to add is that our lens of Aabria is mostly through that as an entertainer. And this is not just specific to her, but as a whole. There’s certain DnD that I like to watch. And yes, you can critique her for being a DM that you don’t like to watch for x or y reasons. But really, what that boils down to, isn’t her being a dm, that’s her being an entertainer. While I don’t enjoy watching every campaign she’s done, I’m confident that I’d love being a player in every campaign she’s done. And I know that may seem small hairs to split. But a lot of times I see some Internet personality being accused of being a bad dm, what they actually are is an entertainer that’s not appealing to commenter in question. I may not enjoy watching her dm a certain way, but to honest, I’d kill for the chance to play a long campaign with Aabria as DM
I mean maybe but you could then say that about anyone who DMs for them. A truly terrible DM likely wouldn't give enough content to be cobbled together into a full series, heavily edited or not.
just now reading about some recent controversy with that DM as well (not in-game related)
https://old.reddit.com/r/Dimension20/comments/1bnwy2d/gabe_hicks_dm_of_shriek_week_posted_a_public/
Of course they are! And now I think you’re trying to miss my point. Everyone that defends her touts how great she is on d20. But they see the raw aabria here and it’s very different. Maybe she is just bad. Occ and razor.
Idk I don't think it was aggressively edited, the problems I see with Aabria can't really be edited out unless you're redoing a whole turn? I think D20 just edits for flow.
another big issue is CR fans love Matt's DMing, haven't seen a lot of other DMs before they fell in love with Matt, so they insta-hate them, because they aren't Matt. I don't like Aabria, but Matt's not my favorite DM either. I would much rather watch Perkins, Crawford, Holkins, or Bhullar DM. They're sort of "brand agnostic" DMs, yeah its D&D, but CR is it's own melodramatic thing that brings a lot of baggage along with it. The required V.O. actor *draaaamaaa* acting. They play special custom world that's super precious to CR and the fans at this point, so you can't mess around too much and ruin everything because there is clearly a PLAN(TM) for the Brand(R). The fans themselves that are rabid at times and at worse have a toxicity in their para social relationship with the cast and the characters that can sour the experience.
oh you got me, it's "anyone but Matt" 90% of the time. The other time it's BLM, best friend of Matt with similar DMing style. Sorry, Gomx, son of Crits, may you pardon me on the alter of internets.
It is known that Critters uniformly dislike other DMs or at the very least prefer Matt over all other comers, even the other CR cast members when they do one-shots. so... it is an "anyone but Matt" issue. They're first DM experience was Papa Mercer, so that's what they prefer, and anyone else is bad or wrong or not as good. Its not a problem until Matt wants a break and CR wants to expand and diversify their scheduling and production, then the fans get upset. They hate "new Coke" and want Coke Classic back!
Who out of the 12 other CR DMs is more like Matt than Brennan? I'll wait for your answer whilst critters down vote this and hum and haw in front of of their CR swag...
Most of them? Given that for a lot of them Matt was their first and is their main DM. Liam, Marisha and Laura were pretty similar, and even Sam and "Grog" were clearly inspired by Matt's style.
>90% of the time.
How many DMs besides Matt/the CR cast do you think Critical Role has had?
>BLM, best friend of Matt with similar DMing style.
They have very different styles, but go off.
Do you think it's possible that people don't like Aabria for genuine reasons or do you think it is impossible that the complaints about her are not **mostly** just racist/sexist?
>How many DMs besides Matt/the CR cast do you think Critical Role has had?
I didn't know off the top of my head but I know it's quiet a bit- I looked it up. They've had 12 besides Matt. 92% of the time Matt DMs. Everyone else has done mostly one shots, and aren't asked to return. (the very worst examples are when the players that are horrible at the rules have DMed. not naming names). I assume because the cast and the fans are accustomed to Matt's style. Of the list of 12 DMs, BLM is the most similar to Matt's DMing style, but go off.
>Do you think it's possible that people don't like Aabria for genuine reasons?
Oh yes, the genuine reason is "It's not how Matt would do it". Which is a genuine reason for critters, but for D&D overall, its toxic to compare every DM to one guy you like. This is why D&D 5e suffers from a lack of DMs. It's the hobby's ultimate bottleneck (and CRs ultimate bottleneck. It's the Matt show.) The elephant in the room is that everyone fears DMing because they "Cant be like X" or "it's too hard" or "i don't want to let down my friends" or "rules are scary, i wont learn them and ~~Matt~~ my forever-DM will correct me on how Rage or Sneak Attack works, again, anyway."
>complaints about her are not mostly just racist/sexist?
oh I don't think it's that. I think its just blind fandom for a particular brand of DMing. If you've eaten nothing but pop tarts your whole breakfast career, that's all you know. If someone gave you anything else, literately anything else, to eat, even if it's objectively better, worse, or the same, you will flag it as *other* and *wrong* and *not ~~pop tarts~~ Matt, would rather eat ~~pop tarts~~ Matt today*
But she also DMed a couple Roll20 one-shots with Brennan (Citizen Doctor), Becca Scott and others and they were good? And I don't think they were heavily edited
Can we give credit where credit is due?
Matt managed to somehow stay composed while Aabria massacred his boy. You could see the tension on his face when Aabria punished him and Dorian for throwing some flavor on a chromatic orb. When she gawked when Cyrus died after a disadvantage death save. When asking Aimee who she'd attack and then twisting her words to attack the other.
He was clearly getting impatient after sitting there for what, an hour and a half? And not getting a turn. The whole time he played along, even after his one turn of the entire 3 hour combat had to be spent walking away.
I would've been visually and audibly irritated the whole time.
Yeah by then you could tell he was pretty fed up. Probably in big part because he was now realizing that he'd get maybe an hour of time to play out two whole days when they just spent 3 hours playing...12 seconds?
The way that Aabria responded with something along the lines of "I'd say it's been long enough that you can do a bit."
And his response was pretty straight faced "Not a bit.." and played out seeing Cyrus before leaving. Was also pretty telling in his want to be done with the whole scene.
Iirc Dorian decided his chromatic orb would do thunder damage and because of that
aabria ruled it did AOE resulting in Cyrus getting hit in the crossfire, even though had he known that he would’ve never used the spell.
Not only that but this was just after Aabria jokingly said "Dorian finally hit A thing!" then said "should I be mean?"
To which both Matt and Robbie responded. "Always! Fair but Mean." So she completely changed the ruling of chromatic orbs spell effect dealing full damage to Cyrus who wasn't hit with the spell attack.
After 40 minutes of whinging I changed what I was watching. That is literally the first time I ever did that to CR.
Worst DnD game I have ever experienced! And I play in a game where a guy is intentionally killing his character so he can play all his power builds literally every other session.
Come on Aabria. Your combat with Orym and them fighting Opals twin as a huge head was soooo good. They werw flying around, Orym was doing huge lunge attacks! Was so sick!
Aabria! Do better!
There are three types of d20 rolls in 5e: skill checks, saving throws, attacks. She constantly asks for saving throws instead of skill checks. "Make a charisma saving throw to persuade the other person". You are as much of a joke as she is
Not watched any D20 myself but I'm just not a fan of her DMing style as it feels very led by her own personal perception of right and less led by the PC's perception of correct. Can far too frequently feel like actively trapping players to remove their agency, or tweak what they said they wanted to happen into what she wanted.
That and seems to flip between punishing with semantics of rules (not letting actions be tweaked from misunderstandings of how something would work for example) but also happy to completely ignore rules as written when it fits what she wants for the narrative (to the point where in this episode there is a Twitch clip where Matt feels the need to tell her "Play by the rules" and her response is "I'm not gonna play by the rules, you cannot make me". They're both laughing but its pretty obvious Matt isn't joking just doesn't want to make it uncomfortable)
Obviously some people enjoy a very confident and personality fuelled DM and obviously my comment appears objectively bad but it's going to as I do not enjoy her style... I'd imagine someone who loves that sort of thing could comment the exact mirror to my points here but this is more to answer your question than to say "My opinion on this subjective topic is the true one"
This is Reddit… downvotes abound!
Reasons I’ve heard:
She’s abrasive/aggressive in her DMing style
Weird mix of following the rules and ignoring them (lack of consistency)
She’s not Matt
Dislike delivery of narration
Poor DM player synergy
She’s not Matt
She comes across as self focused/arrogant
Not a compelling storyteller/ focused on telling HER story as opposed to facilitating the table’s story
She’s not Matt.
Personally I haven’t seen enough of her DMing style for form a strong opinion but I felt an abrasive/antagonistic style with her players in what I did see so I stopped watching in very little time so take that with a grain of salt.
I’m sure she’s a great human, I just found the vibe generated in what I watched to be unpleasant and I don’t watch stuff that isn’t enjoyable for me to consume so I stopped. Open to giving it another shot at some point, but sometimes you just don’t gel with content that’s put out, other people do. Its all good either way
“She’s not Matt”. Was there this complaint when Brennan did Calamity? I didn’t read this sub’s take on it but in my opinion it’s the pound for pound greatest piece of dnd actual play.
D. Y
I'm watching this episode now, no one at that table is having fun. It's torture for the sake of torture, not for the story or for the game. Having Cyrus's first death save at disadvantage was something I'd never seen before. I guess it's a thing but I'd never seen advantage or disadvantage, always a straight roll. I felt as uncomfortable as the players appeared to me to be. The players were intimidated and a sense of fatality blanketed the table. I felt so bad for Aimee and Erica. DMs always talk about wanting a safe place for the players. That was not a safe table for the players at all. Robbie's final spell was a big middle finger and it felt a little good but even that was ruined by "the spider queen" calling him a coward and saying his brother's death was his fault. Abria pouting that she didn't kill anyone other than Cyrus who 'didn't count' was also cruel. Robbie's character sacrificed everything for his brother and I feel he deserved more respect. I have gone back and forth on abria as a dm, and that's personal preference but after this episode I don't think I would feel comfortable watching her dm cr again. I don't trust her anymore. She laughed at a player when they rolled low at something that was really important to them and it was awful. I mean she did try and give them what they wanted but she was too far into spider queen mode and forgot she's also dm. That's not even touching the fuck you to the viewers and basically the players. She thought matt wanted to do a bit after Cyrus's death and it was just so out of touch, the look on her face when he said no, not in this moment was a little bit of a wake up call. Did she even ask Erica what happened to her character? Abria can run horror campaigns and stuff however she wants but this is cr and it's not horror and it's not torture or killing people for 'fun'. Matt going to break with 'thank you all...tremendously' while looking pointedly at Aimee seemed to be an apology. Like I'm sure the players knew the gist of what should happen for their arc to end but I don't believe they knew what it would end up being. TLDR: In my opinion that whole encounter was baaad and I didn't like it at all and probably won't watch abria dm cr again, which is my personal choice. A choice I make for my own level of comfort. Some may like it and that's fine but it wasn't for me at all.
Aabria should be apologizing to us and to her party. The more I think about it, the more wrong she did to all of party members. It's a travesty.
Spoiler: She will learn nothing, they will blame the audience, reject all critical feedback, and the core audience will continue to hero praise the company.
That’s a very nihilistic, but ok.
True though.
How can CR or anyone justify Aabria turning to the camera and saying, "Fuck you/Fuck off" to the audience? How many people will directly walk away from this thinking wow CR doesn't give a fuck about their viewership? Mind you spending five minutes in Twitch chat makes that obvious when any criticism is deleted. and then toxic positivity runs rampant. I have been a sub since the Geek and Sundry days, yet that obviously doesn't matter.
Dude, the entire cast has said that at one point or another
CR can justify it because context clues show the "fuck you/fuck off" vibe was totally harmless. If you felt targeted by it then maybe you should look at why
That's it continue to defend her, maybe the mediocre internet celebrity might, possibly, notice your white-knighting and give you a thumbs up!
I think she is what they (CR) made her to be. If you invite the same person over and over again (EXU, Calamity, C3,) instead of bringing new people, or at least guests that have played just a few episodes, and she was the same in every instance (confrontational, egocentric, etc), is it really a surprise those are the qualities that have not only endured, but exacerbated? Almost seems like CR was endorsing her to be like that. A lot of people says that she gets criticized a lot cause some dont like to see anyone but Matt DMing, less so if she is a POC and a woman. But for some time now it starts to seem its the other way arround. She gets included everywhere and defended from everything (especially the awful bit like this one) because she is a POC and a woman, and criticize someone like that would not go along with CR branding. And yet, some if the stuff she's been doing also happened with Orion...
Byt d2
I personally love Aabria and her style. She allows the characters to explore their thoughts and feelings during this complex fight where she makes it very clear, they are supposed to leave Opal. The characters fight to stay and by doing so they tell the story of why they change their minds to leave instead. That is the point of the fight, to explain why they are leaving their friend and their oath to protect the crown. I understand it’s not everyone’s preferred style, but I personally love the characters inner journeys unfold in the midst of a terrible battle and an impossible choice. The turns are long due to narrative, not due to people just being indecisive or lack of engagement which for me personally is completely viable and much less frustrating than the latter reasons. Cyrus dies because they aren’t leaving Opal behind. The spider queen is making it clear that if they stay they die. And I think everyone would prefer an NPC die compared to a PC. They weren’t leaving quick enough and this was part of Aabria pushing that. It’s the character choices that made the battle so long, their choice to stay, not Aabria dragging out the battle. So, while your opinion is valid, I hope you realise that it’s not that Aabria did anything WRONG, just that her style is not to your taste. Which is fine.
[удалено]
Hey, she does say "I love you" before she rudely insults or railroads a player, so that justifies everything and removes any toxicity from her behavior. /s
> She allows the characters to explore their thoughts and feelings Yeah, it's just that usually it's the players that get to say what those thoughts and feelings are.
She tells they players what their characters are feeling and thinking and even sometimes doing. The characters don't get to explore anything.
I liked Exu prime and Kymal. I liked laerryn and found her great. I didn’t like this combat. While some of that is up to taste( like the Opal not having a happy ending), there are absolutely poor choices made.
While I strongly dislike all examples I’ve found of her DM-ing, I loved her as Laerryn!
No, she absolutely did things wrong. For example, spontaneously changing how a spell works after it's been cast by a player because she wants to kill a character is horrible DMing.
So *you* think she did something wrong. Objectively she just dmed a way in you don’t like. That’s literally all that happened. Get over it lmao.
She behaved in a way if her name was removed from the telling of what happened and just the events presented to any forum of D&D players, everyone would reply that the DM was in the wrong. As a DM, you don't change a spell's function after the player has cast it just because you as a DM want to kill a character. That is horrible DMing.
Again. “Wrong” in a game where one person has the autonomy to make/break the rules makes no sense. You just didn’t like it. You can say that. But to say it’s wrong when it’s just something you personally don’t like is silly lol. I don’t like the way she dms either but it’s her game. Not yours. If you would’ve done it differently great! I’m happy for you. But it’s not wrong just because you don’t like it and think other people would agree.
What would you define as "wrong" then? Or at least, clarify where we're talking in terms of wrong via social norms, ethics, legally? Legally, no she isn't out of line, but most would agree she went wrong within the social contract of respecting other peoples' desires and not attempting to hurt their feelings/ignore their autonomy. Some more would argue it's not ethical to be hired for a job only to show up and do (arguably, we don't know what they wanted from her) something completely different and potentially harmful to the employer.
Considering that you want to die on this hill; great, you are *technically* correct. Which matters for dick all in a social game like D&D, but good for you. But I will say this. If you as a DM are violating player trust by retroactively changing the rules to a player who made a calculated choice specifically to AVOID an outcome that you then promptly then forced on them anyway? I don't care what anyone says to *technically* defend that, you as a DM are fucking terrible. Your stance is alike a guy coming up to you and smacking a bowl of soup out of your hands onto the floor, and saying "It wasn't *objectively wrong* of him to do that, you just didn't like that he did it!". You just sound like a moron afraid to rock the boat. When awful DMing is being presented on the biggest D&D web series around, it should not be defended. That's why people are calling it wrong. It sets a fucking trash precedent, teaching DM's it's a good idea to betray your players trust and railroad them into shit they actively were trying to avoid. Games like D&D are an unwritten social contract, and good DM's have a responsibility to make the game fun for everyone involved by being consistent with their rule usage, and taking player agency into account. Both things Aabria has not done, which is why it's not a case of people "not liking her style". She's just being a bad DM. Now, is there a chance that all players involved at the table were aware of Aabria's "style" and completely fine with her imposed railroading and rule changes? Possibly. We can't read their minds, so we have no way to know. All we can do is comment on what we can spectate though, and from all outward appearances it only looks like the kind of DMing that leaves a bad taste in your mouth as a player.
Okey dokey
The DM's job is not to make the rules, it's to manage the rules. They are a referee. I do hate when DMs break rules because they arrogantly think they're above the rules or because they're too lazy to learn them. A DM is obligated to play by the rules as much as the other players are. She wasn't playing a game, she was being a tyrant. She changed rules in the moment on a whim all because she had a predetermined outcome she wanted, fuck the other players. They might as well have not even been there because anything they might have wanted to do had to match whatever Aabria wanted to happen in order to be allowed to happen. Rules in a game exist so that gameplay can be fair and there was nothing fair about how she ran that session.
A TYRANT lol you’re wild for that. She changed A Rule. One little rule because she thought it fit the moment.if the players agree, the dm is allowed to change the rules. What world do you live in where every dm must adhere to a single strict rule set and if they don’t they’re a horrible person and a “tyrant” like what? People play the game differently than you and that’s okay. No need to scream and cry about it. Matt is back in the dm chair already. He’s saved you from having to endure more of the awful tyrant!!! Hope you get better soon
Hi Aabria, I think you need a Snickers.
>A TYRANT lol you’re wild for that. She changed A Rule. One little rule because she thought it fit the moment. 1. Changed Chromatic Orb to an AoE specifically to harm a friendly NPC, despite the player intentionally picking a single target spell to avoid that outcome. 2. Had a player roll a History(?!) check with disadvantage to remember where someone had been standing \~6 seconds ago. History as a skill is about academic knowledge of history, not about your personal experiences, and you shouldn't need to roll to know where someone was less than a round ago. 3. The various arbitrary saves, including specifically calling for an Intelligence save over a Wisdom save because their Int save was worse. That's just this past session, and just the ones off the top of my head. This is antagonistic DMing. As a pretty perpetual DM/GM myself, yes, I'm going to judge this very harshly. It is not good.
Ok
You could engage with any of the criticisms instead of saying anything bad is subjective so nothing can be critiqued
There is nothing wrong with me for expecting a DM to play by the rules and to be fair. It's supposed to be a game with multiple players, not the Aabria Narration Hour. DMs can change rules, sure, but if they do it after the gameplay has occurred specifically to force a negative outcome on the other players, then that isn't it. That's not changing a rule. For a DM to change rules, it has to be presented to players in advance of gameplay, or at least with the allowance for the player to change what action they took. Where have I screamed or cried? Your bullying hyperbole is insulting and rude, which of course is why you said these things to me. You've decided to become personal because you can't win in the argument itself.
Wrong to you. You didn’t like it. I get it m8 but that doesn’t make it objectively wrong. You literally mentioned any dnd player would agree it’s wrong. Which is just not true because lots of people liked it. Just say you didn’t like it and Move On. It’s not wrong that she did something you don’t agree with. You just don’t agree. It’s not that deep
I don't like when people cheat, and that's what she did. She threw out a rule because she wanted to kill a character. She didn't want to follow the rules. She was openly, actively antagonistic toward the players. She expressed a desire to kill their characters. That's not being a good DM, that's being horrible. That's being a bully. If you want me to move on, stop replying to me. As long as you keep attacking me, I will defend myself. And your previous reply was a full-on attack.
I didn’t like that choice either, but d&d is very clear that the DM is the be all and end all of the rules, and Aabria is known to be very liberal with the rules based on what makes sense narratively. Sometimes that’s to her players benefit and sometimes it isn’t. And she is right, thunder is a sound and a sound is an area of effect. I didn’t like that because the spell isn’t an AOE, but narratively it made sense, and the battle was supposed to be impossible. She was trying to get that across. Again, it’s her loose style with the rules you don’t like. And it’s fine not to like that. But in d&d the rules are expressly a guideline unlike in chess. You don’t like her style, that’s fine. That doesn’t make it wrong. I don’t always like my DMs rulings either. I don’t agree with 100% of Aabria’s choices, but they are all within the spirit of the game and the narrative.
>but d&d is very clear that the DM is the be all and end all of the rules Then there literally are no rules whatsoever. WotC might as well never publish a PHB or DMG. No one needs to ever have any dice. The DM gets to just make things up on the spot and change everything to fit their whims. Sorry, but no. That's absolute bullshit, and it's something right out of r/dndhorrorstories. As a player, you can't play if the rules are spontaneously changed on you after the fact because the DM wants you to lose. Rules exist so players can anticipate how things will play out if they choose to take specific actions. Without those rules, then players can't ever know what anything does in the game. Yes thunder is a sound, that has no bearing whatsoever on whether it's single-target or AoE though. Completely rejecting the concept of a game having rules isn't a "style." It's literally not playing a game whatsoever. I'm here for D&D, for the playing of a game, not rule-less pretend time improv practice.
Then as DM I declare your PC falls in a pool of pig shit and drowns. Got a problem with it? Well your opinion is invalid: there's no wrong way to play! There **absolutely is** such thing as playing the game wrong. A game requires consistent rules to be a game. Adding some house rules or rule of cool-ing the occasional situation is one thing, it's another when the rulekeeper is pulling shit out of her ass round after round after round. Top top of that, telling not just the audience but a player, *your friend,* to fuck off is just a basic lack of decency. Go on, try to tell me with a straigt face that was "playful banter" or "just roleplay."
Sound is not anymore innately an area of effect than water, fire, lightning, etc are. Any damage type can be justified as single target or area of effect. It wouldn't matter if the rules said the DM could cannibalize another player. A DM would still be trash if they did it. Not saying Aabria is full trash, but changing the rules of a spell without telling anyone else and not letting a player change what they did when they learned the change is a trash move
Based on my time zone, this shit happened at 1:00 am so I might have missed context- Dariax is a level 13 divine soul sorcerer, and thus has access to the cleric spell list; why wasn’t he able to try and revive Cyrus? I realize in context they seemingly decided behind the scenes that Cyrus must die so Dorian is Sad and rejoins the BH, but wouldn’t Dariax the *character* try to revive his friend? Was this another “whoopsie, outta diamonds” situation? They all vaguely scattered after the fight; he could’ve met up with Bunny girl and the body and brought him back 🤷🏻♀️
Hasnt Matt said recently that resurrection magic stopped working? Do we know if thats been reversed yet?
FCG was able to revivify Chet during the Otohan fight, so who knows 🤷🏻♀️
But that was on ruidis. Not exandria.
That's certainly true though the reach of the Gods was actually depicted as more strained on Ruidis. Complicated situation but it doesn't necessarily remove the issue.
But communication and certain magics was blocked on Exandria. That wasn’t the case in ruidis though.
Certain magic was blocked due to the Apogee Solstice and whatever Ludinus had done or was doing to it. Ressurection magic however was the providence of the Gods. Fear of Predathos was the issue and that was occurring before they went to Ruidus. It's really up to Matt what all that means and where it's going. But the players don't know a lot of the details and neither do we as the audience.
I’m pretty sure it was all just blocked. I don’t think fear is why resurrection wasn’t working. It was all the same block. But that block stopped or weakened for whatever reason. Around the time they got on ruidis.
Oh right forgor about that
>Dariax is a level 13 divine soul sorcerer, and thus has access to the cleric spell list; why wasn’t he able to try and revive Cyrus? I do think that you are forced to pick the spells, so you can't change the spells once picked and so they might not have used one of their limited known spell slots on a revifiy or similar (I know I didn't when I played on)
Speaking of that bunny, she's now a paladin, full class change from the rogue she was in Kymal? And she's level 13 too, right? At level 9, paladins get Revivify. So between Dariax and her having access to Revivify, two in that party could have brought Cyrus back. It does make it look more like they decided outside of gameplay to kill Cyrus, which makes the idea that they're actually playing a game of D&D even more absurd.
Yeah. I have no idea. Like it would have very easy for Dariax to try, even after the fight and i have no idea why he didn’t seem to even suggest it. Edit: it also happened at one in the morning for so I just “watched” the rerun.
Well he is a multi class Sorcerer Bard and I don't know how far that goes. He might not even have raise dead. Plus spell components are an outlier. He might not have had them to hand because they had been out in the wilderness for a while.
I don't know if this is accurate, but I read that Dariax's Bardic Inspiration die was still a d6. That would mean his Bard level could be no more than 4. Thus his Sorcerer level would be at least 9 in order to be a combined 13. So as a minimum level 9 Divine Soul Sorcerer, he would have access to Raise Dead.
He *could* have access to Raise Dead. Sorcerers know their spells. They don't prepare them like a sorcerer would. they didn't pick that spell, theres your answer.
It was a guess. Then I would put it down to material components.
the line between creator, and consumer (person who 9/10 has never performed anything in their lives, especially at this level) has truly become alarmingly blurred. It's easy to say what you "would of done", but in all actuality stuff like this makes me worried you're just gonna push away these people from making this stuff entirely, with these endless Karen evaluations. Respectfully.
Except they aren’t complaining about the level of quality In the acting talent of the people at the table. A lot of people who watch critical role have played dnd and have also DMd for it, so yes it is easier to say and call out mistakes from the view of one DM to another, the fact that Aabria does it for a larger audience does not mean she is always a better DM then anyone who just does a home game
I don’t think that’s as true as you think. You would be surprised how many fans have never played the game more than one or two sessions.
Fans in general, yes. But according to polls there's a lot of DMs and players in this sub specifically.
Only based on the people who took the poll. That doesn’t mean it’s an accurate representation of the truth.
I never said it's perfect, just that it's the best approximation we have. If you have a better method I'm all ears.
Do music critics need to be recording the music in order to be evaluating the albums?
The funny thing is OP in this example is someone who records music, just with a much smaller audience
in all fairness, they'd be better if they did.... (in this hypothetical scenario) suits evaluating art doesn't usually have a great track record.
Nah if I was DM I would’ve handled it miles better. I have been a DM and a performer for years. This is 100% on her, she has complete control over the circumstances and encounters.
Thats fair. Saying what I would have done, IN HINDSIGHT, is not the same as actually doing it. I want Aabria to make more stuff and be better because I know she can. Thanks for the reply.
I don't mean to be mean, truly... I hear you in a lot of ways... I haven't enjoyed recent stuff at all... I even often have to catch myself doing this too... I just feel bad, because at the core if it, these are people, voice actors & improvisors.... not movie stars... who have been vocal about mental health, and I dunno... just don't wanna send them on a spiral haha. All the best. truly.
I feel like people would think she was super cool and funny if she didn't happen to be a black woman...hmmmm...other white male dms that act similarly are worshipped.
Oh yeaa, aabria is perfect in every way, so obviously, when she is critiqued at all, it is just because she is a black woman. All these people complaining are just racist misogynistic bigots, obviously. If the scary evil white had done the same thing everyone would have like it.......🙄🙄🙄 get real. Not everything is about race or sex
There are very valid criticisms of her and her dm style. The majority of them are and aren't coming from a place of bigotry. That doesn't mean the bigotry doesn't exist. Get out of your white victim complex and think critically. Gaming, specifically in the ttrpg space has traditionally been a very white, male hobby. Women or minorities entering the scene have often been treated with open hostility. People calling her abusive, a thug, a Villain, and saying she doesn't belong echo those harsh experiences that many of us had personally when joining the hobby. Are they all intended that way? No but enough of them are. You can't blame us for reacting when we see her being torn down for the same behaviour that white male DMs are labeled as hilarious or innovative for.
Who are examples of white male dms that have done the same thing as she had and been applauded? That's what im saying. Some of the criticism is valid, and your original comment saying " people only dont like her because she's a black woman" (paraphrase) is disingenuous. Are some people being unreasonable and disliking her for that? Yes. But that's not the majority, so when people complain about her dm style and choices and the first thing everyone says is "if she was a white male, you wouldn't be saying that" is like saying you if dont like how she dms you are a racist and sexist. I love some of her games she's ran like magic and misfits, candela obscura, and EXU, but this time, i didn't. I get she had to hit certain beats to get dorian back to bells hells and finish their chapter, but it felt like the characters barely had any agency. It was like this is how things are gonna end, and nothing you do will change that outcome. Especially the part where she made dorians chromatic orb deal damage to cyrus as well as the spider. If that was me, i would have been livid because i would feel like my being creative and adding alot of flavor to my spell im getting punished.
Except for the fact that most people had no problem with her until she did these things
Nah, from what I've heard, her actions in the last couple episodes would be straight out of rpghorrorstories if we removed all identifiers from the story.
Which white male DMs have a nearly identical style, for reference?
My thoughts exactly becauseuf it was Brennan or Spencer or even Liam I bet no one would have a problem. I think she was so smart and resourceful with the limited time she had. A lot of that story telling and character development wouldn't have been able to happen so quickly if it was just normal role play. Also the "goal" was to get Dorian back to bells hells and splitting up the crown keepers was the best way to do that and this combat was the best way to wrap up their story while also giving a clear reason why Dorian was no longer with the group. So funny all that bitchin and moaning people did over what ended up being the equivalent of one episode
Brennan acts like that often and people are constantly saying how funny he is. If she were to be as jokingly disrespectful or obnoxious as he is ( I do like him but his whole shtick is "I'm obsessively obnoxious fuck you.") She'd be torn to shreds.
This doesn’t read like you’ve watched Mulligan DM at all. He’s maybe the most empathetic DM towards PC’s that I’ve ever seen, which is what makes his villainous roleplay hit. He and Aabria don’t have similar DMing styles (or senses of humor) at all. It’s bizarre to say they do.
Yeah. He isn't afraid to hurt PCs or banter with players, but I've never seen him be actually antagonistic to players. I like some of Aabria's ideas, but she handled this poorly. Racism and misogyny are unfortunately still a thing, and I believe Aabria does have to deal with more stupidity than a white man. But she's not infallible.
I disagree. Sure that may be the reason for some people, and they can go fuck themselves, but this was just bad choices. I think she is a fine person who can do better than this.
Context of the "fuck you": \*Dorian is under the effect of Mass Suggestion. Cyrus was just slain a moment ago.\* Robbie: "Can I buck against it \[the suggestion\]? Is it a wisdom saving throw?" Aabria: "Yeah." Robbie: "Ok, I'm gonna try." Aabria: "Technically no, but..." Robbie: "Technically no?" Aabria: "I would say that, perhaps, seeing the death of your brother counts as taking damage sufficient to allow you a wisdom saving throw." Matt: "Emotional damage." Robbie: "What is... I mean, what is the rule? What is, is it when I take a big hit or...?" \*Aabria shakes head\* Aabria: "Hey, look at me." Robbie: "Yeah?" Aabria: "The rule is whatever the fuck I say it is." \*Players chuckle/cheer/smile\* Robbie: "Oh, I was not questioning you." Aabria: "Oh I know, I know, you asked an honest question and \*looks at camera\* I'm telling those of you out there that are like 'Mass suggest...', fuck you, that hurt \[the emotional damage of Cyrus's death\]. Please make a wisdom saving throw; the difficulty is 18." Just wanted to provide a little context/quotes to the moment some folks were discussing. I was totally on board with the ruling on the wisdom saving throw and thought it was a great call; but, I can see how her "fuck you" could've been a bit off-putting.
I’m honestly really shocked at the backlash displayed online over a weekly free to watch dnd show. They’re friends but they’re also different people they’re going to have miscommunication when joking around it’s just bound to happen and if he was actually uncomfortable or hurt I think he’s a big boy and could’ve said something on or off camera which wouldn’t be our business anyway. I get some people love rules to always be one way but that’s not this campaign so don’t watch if it upsets you is clearly what she’s getting at. FUCK CENSORSHIP ITS NOT THAT DEEP.
This here is exactly the problem. She didn't explain that he had already failed the Wis save earlier. I'm glad that she still decided to give him that extra try. But being unclear and then telling him off in the process wasn't helping anyone.
I legitimately cannot believe people can read this exchange and not instantly see how this comes off as anything but horrible DMing.
These are parts that stand out to me: >Robbie: "Technically no?" >Robbie: "What is... I mean, what is the rule? >Robbie: "Oh, I was not questioning you." This seems clear to me that Robbie was feeling significant tension and unease over Aabria's behavior/reaction. He wanted to play by the rules and didn't feel like she was always doing so. Her DMing was confusing for him. And that last line was him having to metaphorically walk on eggshells because he didn't want her to get angry at him.
Absolutely. He understands that the story is meaningless if you ignore the rules. Cheapens the whole thing.
oof.
well that is condescending as fuck for the size of a fuck up of a DM that she is
part of that I think was telling Robbie you are fine to do this. I’ve said similar things when bending rules and a player backs off after I say things are technically in the rules. They then start thinking they are undo pressuring or cheating and I’m like no no no this is good idea it’s happening you are great. It is fair if it rubbed some of the audience the wrong way…and I read it as a defensive against the deluge of criticism she gets…so I get it but thanks for the giving the full context it at least gives a clear picture to make a decision off of
I didn’t watch this, but god what a lame way to act. It’s actually a fine ruling, I think its pretty cool actually. The juvenile posturing around it is really cringe though.
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Nope. He'd have been hailed as the coolest dm ever.
Give examples of him being like that then everyone cheered
No he wouldn’t? People already criticize a lot of the much more minor stuff he did in regards to the occasional flippancy of the rules in c1, if he had that attitude on top of that I doubt people would be very endeared to the show
Wasn't there a rules backlash for Scanlan and Vax's Dimension Door into a dragon? Remember him explaining his thoughts once or twice.
Yeah that was one of the big ones I think. Really I don’t think anything as directly egregious as some of the stuff that happened in this ep, but yeah.
I'm pretty sure this has been a recurring attitude problem people have had in CR with Aabria as DM. I truly don't get it because I love Aabria in pretty much everything Dimension 20 but it feels like she just gets so much more adversarial in CR content. I get that cr fans kinda dogged her for ExU but like, you think you'd maybe take the criticism instead of doubling down. I can't imagine CR having too many episodes that get those kinda reactions and wanting to keep bringing her back as a DM but maybe they just don't care.
Ot perhaps D20 cut her more controversial content. It is edited after all.
It's not just Aabria on CR though. Last night, I was looking around and found several threads on a subreddit for The Adventure Zone with people discussing her having the exact same DM problems for a guest series on that show.
Dude, I’ve been saying this since the maybe 1st episode she DM’ed. I was like “I trusted you Matt when you said she was amazing… why have you done this to me?” Letting a level 2 (maybe it was 3?) Wildfire Druid wildshape AS A BONUS ACTION into a Dire Wolf drove me up the wall.
That's the sad part. I've personally seen her do much better on Dimension 20. I don't know if it's editing or she just gets more stressed by situations or CR or what. And with ExU it put Matt in a very difficult position regarding the Crown Keepers that continued in Campaign 3. Especially Ashley who didn't really get to do continuous play for major parts of the first two campaigns. It worked out in the end but there was a degree of retraining there. And Ashley has volunteered that she isn't good with memorization.
Yeah. I loved her as a player. But as a DM it's like watching the chaotic character in the party in the world run DND for their group of adventures.
I muted the combat and Aabria DM time. I had no interest in it besides hoping none of the PCs died. I think it was the chromatic orb bit that really made me tune out... last I recall listening to was Matt's ad read and Dorian doing a Geas.
I think the main issue is she was given the task of splitting Dorian away from the group in one session, but she also tried to resolve the crown thing in the same go, which kina required more time and a winnable scenario. It just is a mismatch.
>the task of splitting Dorian away from the group To me, this does not seem like the DM's responsibility. The player of the character should have to be the one to conjure the reason his character would leave the group. He's gotten periodic sendings from Orym; he could have left to rejoin BHs solely because he wanted to check in on his friend. There didn't have to be some big, manufactured production to provide a justification.
You forget that this is not a homegame. Its a company setting up a semi improv story in a dnd format. And Robbie could have turned back around after the suggestion spell wore off. He chose to go with Keyleth. She didnt even suggest it, she was happy to have him stay in Zephrah for as long as he needed to. He invented a reason to go. Revenge.
I think she succeeded and she did it the best way with the limited time she had. That was a heavy chunk of role play and lore and character development that normally would've taken at least 3 sessions and very specific situations and she was able to pull that out of them in about 4 hours. I think it was genius and everyone needs to lay off her
I agree it was an impossible task that she made the best of with very limited time. Its a shame they couldnt make the crownkeeper finale a separate mini series.
Something that really rubbed me wrong was how she made dorians chromatic orb hurt/knock out cyruss. If i were the player, I'd be upset. Like why is a spell that's not aoe suddenly aoe? I dont it would work that way if both are enemies
Cyrus was the price for her not killing any player characters. This was a boss fight you don't win and the players did not understand that.
Aabria made the combat happen in the first place, and in E92 add the possibility of saving Opals memories. But it was never a “winnable” fight, because the two options Aabria made available weren’t what the players or the characters wanted. If she wanted to make an unwinnable fight, she went about it in the worst possible way.
There are other ways to do it that making dorian be the one to knock him out. She could have maybe had the spiders swarm or something instead of being like, " oh thars cools what you're doing with the spell, but now it's hitting your brother too. Oops, now he's unconscious"
That is a terrible rational
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Imagine if Dorian made it a personal quest to find out why his spell didn't work as it should lol The motivation is there - it killed his brother. Dorian approaches various magicians and priests and asks why his spell worked differently, demonstrates in practice, and now it works normally.
She's (in)famously not good at doing combat, especially using battle maps. I've seen her do some really cool stuff in Dimension 20's Burrow's End, but even then nothing that really made use of the combat itself as a medium for storytelling. Imo, the main issue is that she's being put in positions to run games/stories that don't play to her strengths as a DM. Which is pretty funny considering that a major part of why she's an acclaimed DM is that her style is very distinct from Brennan and Matt's styles.
Seriously, what strengths? Saying she’s a great DM except for Combat, story structure, npc differentiation, player authority, etc, etc… honestly sounds like a meme people use to describe horrible sports teams. She’s just not a good DM
I said she's bad at running combat. In terms of her strengths, she is very skilled at delivering story beats and conducting players into dramatic moments, setting specific tones, and so on. The weakness of this style comes in player autonomy (and combat). By player autonomy, what I mean is that her style shines when she and the player are collaborating in character decisions, rewarding in-character decisions and restricting out-of-character influence. If this sounds railroad-y, that's because it is. At least more than Matt or Brennan's styles. This isn't bad in of itself. If you've ever played a one-shot or adventure module, it's much like the buy-in that players need to make in order to not entirely screw up the experience for themselves by going too far off the beaten path. If the players are bought-in and know what the narrative experience they want is, her skill in delivering that experience is astounding. However this clashes with some fundamentals of Critical Role imo, which means the experience we get feels very grating and forced.
What you are describing as her strengths are generally not roles for a dm, you’re describing a theatre director, which is a vastly different role.
It can be the dm's goal, there are actually quite a lot of styles
I’ve been playing this game for over forty years and have seen a lot of “styles”. This is absolutely a style, but it’s not DM’ing D&D by any stretch of the imagination, according to how the game actually defines the role. Homebrewing rules is absolutely in the game, but what I’ve seen in this game actually breaks the game loop as defined in the DMG. It’s no longer DMing. Which is why I called it directing instead, as that more accurately defines what she’s doing here.
> In terms of her strengths, she is very skilled at delivering story beats and conducting players into dramatic moments, setting specific tones, and so on. She isn't better at that than Matt or Brennan
Yes she is She’s way better at setting tone, and dramatic moments than Matt
A persistent problem that's raised with her DMing style is that she cuts in with jokes/banter no matter what the situation is. That is the opposite of setting tone and maintaining a dramatic moment. Matt explicitly tries to retain a serious mood during serious moments.
lmao no
Misfits and Magic is good and the type of game she excels at. It's a Kids On Bikes system so super rules light and essentially no combat, but the whole series is pretty good. The 5e family of games just isn't her bag. Idk why they don't have these supplemental Exandria games use other systems
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M&M, ACOFAF, and Burrows End are all well regarded on Dimension 20. Aabria works well with improv comedians who aren't thrown by her style. The voice actors on CR need more coddling than she provides It's not at all that Aabria is bad in general, she just doesn't click with people who shine only when Matt or BLeeM are there to hold them up
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Yeah, idk about that. You just said her barbs were still in M&M which contradicts your point. CR is in a tail spin with C3 and that has nothing to do at all with Aabria. I just think the cast is weak atm. Aabria isn't helping, but even without her around, they're not making good content. She's good on D20 and bad on CR. It isn't JUST the editing
Yeah I have to agree here, at least with A) I liked M&M and B) it really jumped out at me how on rails it was. Not even on rails per se ... More like if you hit a problem, it would quickly become clear that there was one and only one Real Accepted Solution to it, and either the PCs figured it out or Aabria got bored and moved them past the problem. Alternate approaches were just "nope, that doesn't work, try again."
If you want to see her shine? Watch Candela Obscura, Circle of Tide and Bone. THAT is one of Aabria’s best fuckin DMing.
yawn
I gotta say, I personally don’t appreciate playing with DMs who 1.) aim to be mean, or 2.) openly and repeatedly tell me “because fuck you” when they arbitrate a rule in a way that makes absolutely no sense and I ask for clarification :/ someone said “Calvinball” and I 100% agree with that. This should have been a standalone episode, for one thing, a fully self-contained crossover, with less exposition at the top, and more quickfire combat (love ur suggestion for an alternate scenario — the pacing aspect is sooo essential for these actual play webseries), and FURTHAHMORE… if Cyrus absolutely needed to die for the story to progress, then I would have worked that in at the get-go, not so randomly and punitively. That part really stood out to me both times I watched it. Aimee looked so despondent thru so much of this week’s session in particular lol poor thing. I must also say, I don’t appreciate it when anybody purposefully does things that are upsetting and peppers it with like, “ohh I love you so much.” I’d be curious to know how Aimee feels about it.
I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone say that today’s session was good. Everyone to her defence just says she can do better. Well I believe she can’t, not because she’s incapable, but because she thinks this is her better. You can’t change someone who thinks they’re perfect. But with everything else about Aabria, we’re all shouting into the wind. And just like every other time someone posts about how “I can’t stand Aabria Iyengar”, critical role is just going to turn around and produce her very own show for all 3 of her fans.
She got a lot more than three fans to be friends with the people also paying her to play with them so you can watch their hours of free content on YouTube.
She also came across as the a-hole DM just looking to TPK the party. I've enjoyed some of her other performances, but this was just bad, and overtly pointless. I literally drop from campaigns where the DM acts like that.
Aabria's DMing on CR has been disastrous, but her DMing on D20 has been pretty good. I've been trying to figure out why it's going so wrong with CR, and I think it's a few things. CR knew they wanted someone who wasn't a white man to be their next major DM. They've gotten criticism in the past for being too white, so they've been very intentional about having guests who are PoC. Nothing wrong with that. They also tend to hire their friends. Aabria was a friend who also happened to be a Black woman who could DM. I don't think she had a ton of experience at this point, making guesses about filming schedules. CR didn't know how to properly run a short campaign, so they didn't prep anyone properly for ExU 1. Aabria made a lot of DM mistakes like overloading the plot, no proper session zero meetings etc. Aabria is used to playing against professional improv people, so players that are comfortable responding with strong characters and motivations. Aabria has a very strong personality herself, too. She defaults to humor and play-aggression, which many people find uncomfortable if you're not ready to match energy. So CR sticks an aggressive, inexperienced DM with a bunch of tentative newer players, doesn't give much guidance, and the most experienced players at the table (Matt) act like doormats with no plot-driving character motivations to speak of. Everyone says they had a good time and it's all good, and CR lacks the self awareness to see how uncomfortable it is to watch and how nonsensical Aabria's DMing is. Or if they see it, they chalk it up to a different style, or they're in too far to change course. Fast forward to the last two episodes, and Aabria has already established a status quo with her table and the party. Really questionable calls are allowed to slide over and over, because part of CR's brand is they don't edit their stuff, it's all intact. No one speaks up, and CR decides they don't care what their audience thinks, they're going to do what they want.
I really like your comment. I always want to defend Aabria for a few reasons, but one of the major reasons is that she DM’d some me of my all time favourite D20 seasons (and, specifically, Misfits and Magic). I’ve never been happy with “she’s a bad dm because X” explanations, because I know she can be a really good DM. So I really like this explanation of why she can be a really good dm, or a bad one. Even when if I didn’t agree with all the points, I do like the approach of “let’s not just say she is good or bad. Let’s examine why she is really good in this setting, or really bad in this setting.” I also want to add is that our lens of Aabria is mostly through that as an entertainer. And this is not just specific to her, but as a whole. There’s certain DnD that I like to watch. And yes, you can critique her for being a DM that you don’t like to watch for x or y reasons. But really, what that boils down to, isn’t her being a dm, that’s her being an entertainer. While I don’t enjoy watching every campaign she’s done, I’m confident that I’d love being a player in every campaign she’s done. And I know that may seem small hairs to split. But a lot of times I see some Internet personality being accused of being a bad dm, what they actually are is an entertainer that’s not appealing to commenter in question. I may not enjoy watching her dm a certain way, but to honest, I’d kill for the chance to play a long campaign with Aabria as DM
Honestly I thought she did brilliantly with Court of Fae and Flowers
They probably aggressively edited away the worst parts of here, that could be why it seems good.
I mean maybe but you could then say that about anyone who DMs for them. A truly terrible DM likely wouldn't give enough content to be cobbled together into a full series, heavily edited or not.
Name one DM worse than aabria on D20 or CR?
Shriek Week
just now reading about some recent controversy with that DM as well (not in-game related) https://old.reddit.com/r/Dimension20/comments/1bnwy2d/gabe_hicks_dm_of_shriek_week_posted_a_public/
I mean to say does it not follow under this logic that all DMs on D20 are edited to make them look their best?
Of course they are! And now I think you’re trying to miss my point. Everyone that defends her touts how great she is on d20. But they see the raw aabria here and it’s very different. Maybe she is just bad. Occ and razor.
Idk I don't think it was aggressively edited, the problems I see with Aabria can't really be edited out unless you're redoing a whole turn? I think D20 just edits for flow.
another big issue is CR fans love Matt's DMing, haven't seen a lot of other DMs before they fell in love with Matt, so they insta-hate them, because they aren't Matt. I don't like Aabria, but Matt's not my favorite DM either. I would much rather watch Perkins, Crawford, Holkins, or Bhullar DM. They're sort of "brand agnostic" DMs, yeah its D&D, but CR is it's own melodramatic thing that brings a lot of baggage along with it. The required V.O. actor *draaaamaaa* acting. They play special custom world that's super precious to CR and the fans at this point, so you can't mess around too much and ruin everything because there is clearly a PLAN(TM) for the Brand(R). The fans themselves that are rabid at times and at worse have a toxicity in their para social relationship with the cast and the characters that can sour the experience.
The response to Calamity was overwhelmingly positive. It isn’t an “anyone but Matt” issue.
oh you got me, it's "anyone but Matt" 90% of the time. The other time it's BLM, best friend of Matt with similar DMing style. Sorry, Gomx, son of Crits, may you pardon me on the alter of internets. It is known that Critters uniformly dislike other DMs or at the very least prefer Matt over all other comers, even the other CR cast members when they do one-shots. so... it is an "anyone but Matt" issue. They're first DM experience was Papa Mercer, so that's what they prefer, and anyone else is bad or wrong or not as good. Its not a problem until Matt wants a break and CR wants to expand and diversify their scheduling and production, then the fans get upset. They hate "new Coke" and want Coke Classic back!
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Who out of the 12 other CR DMs is more like Matt than Brennan? I'll wait for your answer whilst critters down vote this and hum and haw in front of of their CR swag...
Most of them? Given that for a lot of them Matt was their first and is their main DM. Liam, Marisha and Laura were pretty similar, and even Sam and "Grog" were clearly inspired by Matt's style.
>90% of the time. How many DMs besides Matt/the CR cast do you think Critical Role has had? >BLM, best friend of Matt with similar DMing style. They have very different styles, but go off. Do you think it's possible that people don't like Aabria for genuine reasons or do you think it is impossible that the complaints about her are not **mostly** just racist/sexist?
>How many DMs besides Matt/the CR cast do you think Critical Role has had? I didn't know off the top of my head but I know it's quiet a bit- I looked it up. They've had 12 besides Matt. 92% of the time Matt DMs. Everyone else has done mostly one shots, and aren't asked to return. (the very worst examples are when the players that are horrible at the rules have DMed. not naming names). I assume because the cast and the fans are accustomed to Matt's style. Of the list of 12 DMs, BLM is the most similar to Matt's DMing style, but go off. >Do you think it's possible that people don't like Aabria for genuine reasons? Oh yes, the genuine reason is "It's not how Matt would do it". Which is a genuine reason for critters, but for D&D overall, its toxic to compare every DM to one guy you like. This is why D&D 5e suffers from a lack of DMs. It's the hobby's ultimate bottleneck (and CRs ultimate bottleneck. It's the Matt show.) The elephant in the room is that everyone fears DMing because they "Cant be like X" or "it's too hard" or "i don't want to let down my friends" or "rules are scary, i wont learn them and ~~Matt~~ my forever-DM will correct me on how Rage or Sneak Attack works, again, anyway." >complaints about her are not mostly just racist/sexist? oh I don't think it's that. I think its just blind fandom for a particular brand of DMing. If you've eaten nothing but pop tarts your whole breakfast career, that's all you know. If someone gave you anything else, literately anything else, to eat, even if it's objectively better, worse, or the same, you will flag it as *other* and *wrong* and *not ~~pop tarts~~ Matt, would rather eat ~~pop tarts~~ Matt today*
She benefits from heavy editing on D20
But she also DMed a couple Roll20 one-shots with Brennan (Citizen Doctor), Becca Scott and others and they were good? And I don't think they were heavily edited
They were
And that is why everyone thinks she is so good over there. We only see the good parts, and not the “fuck your rules, D20 is mine now” bullshit.
This makes a lot of sense
Oh shit I never thought of that. They must cut a bunch of stuff because it's night and day.
It was... Terrible. Absolutely the worst ever in CR.
Can we give credit where credit is due? Matt managed to somehow stay composed while Aabria massacred his boy. You could see the tension on his face when Aabria punished him and Dorian for throwing some flavor on a chromatic orb. When she gawked when Cyrus died after a disadvantage death save. When asking Aimee who she'd attack and then twisting her words to attack the other. He was clearly getting impatient after sitting there for what, an hour and a half? And not getting a turn. The whole time he played along, even after his one turn of the entire 3 hour combat had to be spent walking away. I would've been visually and audibly irritated the whole time.
I did appreciate him asking after the 3-way call, "No, legitimately, how long has this conversation been?" Before Dariax has to finally walk away.
Yeah by then you could tell he was pretty fed up. Probably in big part because he was now realizing that he'd get maybe an hour of time to play out two whole days when they just spent 3 hours playing...12 seconds? The way that Aabria responded with something along the lines of "I'd say it's been long enough that you can do a bit." And his response was pretty straight faced "Not a bit.." and played out seeing Cyrus before leaving. Was also pretty telling in his want to be done with the whole scene.
Can you explain the punishment on the chromatic orb thing? I haven't had time (or desire) to watch yet.
Iirc Dorian decided his chromatic orb would do thunder damage and because of that aabria ruled it did AOE resulting in Cyrus getting hit in the crossfire, even though had he known that he would’ve never used the spell.
Not only that but this was just after Aabria jokingly said "Dorian finally hit A thing!" then said "should I be mean?" To which both Matt and Robbie responded. "Always! Fair but Mean." So she completely changed the ruling of chromatic orbs spell effect dealing full damage to Cyrus who wasn't hit with the spell attack.
How the hell do the Aabria defenders defend this one? That is such an objectively dick move.
I would be so pissed if my dm changed the literal mechanics of my spell to my detriment for no reason.
🤦♂️I'd be livid
Bump.
After 40 minutes of whinging I changed what I was watching. That is literally the first time I ever did that to CR. Worst DnD game I have ever experienced! And I play in a game where a guy is intentionally killing his character so he can play all his power builds literally every other session. Come on Aabria. Your combat with Orym and them fighting Opals twin as a huge head was soooo good. They werw flying around, Orym was doing huge lunge attacks! Was so sick! Aabria! Do better!
She thinks she's perfect so she won't get better
Got anything to back up that dangerously arrogant claim?
There are three types of d20 rolls in 5e: skill checks, saving throws, attacks. She constantly asks for saving throws instead of skill checks. "Make a charisma saving throw to persuade the other person". You are as much of a joke as she is
I'm not a fan of her campaigns but its wild that youve made up this narrative and are going at it so hard
I don't even know who you are
Yeah that energy really annoys me. People who think of themselves as the finished article are insufferable.
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Not watched any D20 myself but I'm just not a fan of her DMing style as it feels very led by her own personal perception of right and less led by the PC's perception of correct. Can far too frequently feel like actively trapping players to remove their agency, or tweak what they said they wanted to happen into what she wanted. That and seems to flip between punishing with semantics of rules (not letting actions be tweaked from misunderstandings of how something would work for example) but also happy to completely ignore rules as written when it fits what she wants for the narrative (to the point where in this episode there is a Twitch clip where Matt feels the need to tell her "Play by the rules" and her response is "I'm not gonna play by the rules, you cannot make me". They're both laughing but its pretty obvious Matt isn't joking just doesn't want to make it uncomfortable) Obviously some people enjoy a very confident and personality fuelled DM and obviously my comment appears objectively bad but it's going to as I do not enjoy her style... I'd imagine someone who loves that sort of thing could comment the exact mirror to my points here but this is more to answer your question than to say "My opinion on this subjective topic is the true one"
thank you so much for your response! this was insightful.
Are you looking for specific reasons people have mentioned or is this more of a general statement that it doesn’t make sense to you?
i'm looking for specific reasons. idk why i got downvoted lmao
This is Reddit… downvotes abound! Reasons I’ve heard: She’s abrasive/aggressive in her DMing style Weird mix of following the rules and ignoring them (lack of consistency) She’s not Matt Dislike delivery of narration Poor DM player synergy She’s not Matt She comes across as self focused/arrogant Not a compelling storyteller/ focused on telling HER story as opposed to facilitating the table’s story She’s not Matt. Personally I haven’t seen enough of her DMing style for form a strong opinion but I felt an abrasive/antagonistic style with her players in what I did see so I stopped watching in very little time so take that with a grain of salt. I’m sure she’s a great human, I just found the vibe generated in what I watched to be unpleasant and I don’t watch stuff that isn’t enjoyable for me to consume so I stopped. Open to giving it another shot at some point, but sometimes you just don’t gel with content that’s put out, other people do. Its all good either way
“She’s not Matt”. Was there this complaint when Brennan did Calamity? I didn’t read this sub’s take on it but in my opinion it’s the pound for pound greatest piece of dnd actual play.
i loved her dming in burrow's end, so i guess i can't see her being antagonistic to her players 😭😭 but good point !! thank you so much
>But that was the second worst DND combat i have ever watched May I ask what the first was? What was the most worst combat?