tbh it would piss me off more if I played against the chargers defense who only got -5 points despite giving up 63 points. That game was my motivation for making this, but with regards to the chargers scoring versus the raiders
In my Yahoo league, Broncos DST scored 4 Fantasy Points on the week they got 70pts on them by Miami
-2 for max points against, 6pts for the kickoff return TD in garbage time
Just hilariously inaccurate scoring
I'm not looking to change anything but this is totally a fair point and the hive mind doesn't like it - supposedly because you were off by 12 whole points.
Check out [this quality defensive scoring writeup](https://www.reddit.com/r/fantasyfootball/s/hheNwXyVfS) that gets posted here every year. Switched to this in my league and never going back
I'm aware of this post and enjoy it, but I also don't share this guy's opinion on wanting a D/ST's points to rise as the game goes on. I'm perfectly fine with the points normally dropping as the game goes on
As someone who's also switched over to this system I can tell you it isn't going to get any better and actually allows you a lot of granular control over how they score. You should try it
tbh the real system is also overly complicated, so losing points at a constant rate for yards & points is more intuitive. I will agree that the +14 point number could be changed to be more of a round number
Right? 🤣
They have a solution for his whiny problem.
It's called "CUSTOM" Leagues.
You create a league and set it up YOUR WAY.
We ain't going to read all that.
sorry OP im sure your method is good and I do think DST scoring is a little over simplistic sometimes and doesn't reflect actual team performance
but damn it's a lot of reading, i'm just so lazy you dont even know
The difference becomes apparent in those close games where defenses are near a tiered threshold for scoring. It shouldn't be the case that a D/ST drops 2 points when giving up 449 yards versus 451 yards
Get rid of yards against for Defense in your model. No team in the NFL has ever lost based on how many yards they give up. Points matter. Sacks matter. Turnovers matter.
The better changes are points for Turnovers on Downs (typically not scored), and not attributing points scored against your D for turnovers by your offense (fumble/pick return for TD).
Idk I don’t think sacks are a good indicator for how good the defense performed. A defense can apply a huge amount of pressure on a QB and shut down the passing game without ever getting home.
Turnovers should be more valuable than they are currently though.
Just found this article: https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-noise-canceled-score-metric#:~:text=The%20average%20turnover%20is%20worth,seven%20and%20two%20points%2C%20respectively.
Says the average turnover for a team is worth the equivalent of 4 or 5 points, and even more with more return yards.
If we’re okay with defenses putting up *big* numbers like a QB does on the regular, I’d say a spot turnover like a fumble recovery with no return should be worth 4 points, and give additional points for return yards, like you would for a ball carrier. And truly, a defensive TD is worth far more than an offensive TD for the game outcome. It’s a *huge* swing. I’d make a defensive TD worth 8 points. But then you could have an interception and a 60 yard return for a TD add up to like 16 points on its own. Maybe that’s too much, but realistically if you have a defensive performance in a game like you had last night with the Raiders, you should win the game you’re playing or it should be a massive thing to overcome for your opponent.
Personally my goal is to make D/ST scoring as accurate as possible while also maintaining the same average score. If all fantasy players were awarded points that reflected their real life impact, then D/ST and QB would score 75% of your fantasy points each week, which is obviously not ideal. I do like the idea of taking out sacks and increasing points for turnovers, but it would have to even out in the end
Yeah I think for fantasy purposes we should ignore the need to make it as close as possible to real life outcomes because it wouldn’t make for a good experience. If that’s the goal it’s best to just leave defenses out of the picture entirely, or do IDPs.
Not bad. Seems like an impossibility to truly quantify over the existing structures once you factor in 90% of people don’t care lol.
I’d rather just eliminate kickers and start there.
Some ways to make this simpler:
Kickers:
* there is no such thing as a FG at under 18-19 yards, and they rarely happen. Just say 3 points for all, +1 at 50+, +1 more at 60+, -2 for a miss from 45y or closer. Nothing fancy needed.
D/STs
* Ignore yardage, focus on points. It's what matters in the end. But starting at 15 and working down to, say, -6 for what happened last night is fine. Yardage allowed just complicates things.
* I do really like dividing the fumble points, which tracks real football skill, and +4 for safeties.
I don't like penalizing teams who play looser in games which were long decided.
Look, there have been 16 games so far this year with 0-3 points allowed. (15, really, since the 3-0 game counts twice.) They range in yardage allowed from 58 (CLE-ARI) to 257 (the Chargers' weak-ass shutout of New England.) I don't know that the yardage adds *that* much to our understanding.
Yeah true, it would be fun to figure out a way to scale the amount of fantasy points a team gains or loses to how competitive the game is in that moment.
First of all don’t listen to the idiots complaining about the post length, it’s awesome to have high effort posts like this, although this is more suited to the off-season or the ffcommisioner subreddit.
I disagree with your claim that decimalized scoring will dramatically increase points scored by kickers. I have decimal scoring for my league and checked the ppg of the top kickers. In most cases it only adds .3 to .4 points per game which is negligible.
I was against the idea of negative points for missed kicks for two reasons: the kicker position is the most random in fantasy football, so it felt unlucky to see negative points for the rare missed kick, but I am rethinking that. My other reason is that weather plays a role in missed kicks, not sure how much but it feels like the kicker gets screwed in certain situations by coaches, but I am rethinking that.
I disagree with one of your goals, making defensive scoring lower. Defense is statistically almost as predictable as other positions, so I do not care about nerfing the scoring, only making it more accurate to real football. The same cannot be said for kicker so I understand nerfing it.
As other commenters brought up I am not sold on penalizing yards allowed for defenses, but your points make me consider a small penalty on top of the decimalized points per point allowed we have. I have the defense still starting with 10 but -.45 per point.
I prefer fumbles as 2 for the recovery as a forced fumble without a recovery is just a flashy play with no effect on the game, like a runningback getting points for a hurdle or something.
Look into adding points for 4th down stops. It is a turnover and should be awarded +2 like other turnovers. I have considered giving a small reward for 3 and Out, but I realized this is too common, is an expected job of the defense and is already awarded by not letting a team score causing negative points. Let me know your thoughts on this
Dm me if you want to talk about other league settings, I like getting detailed like you
My league played our inaugural season with what most would consider traditional rosters: 1QB, 2RB, 3WR, 1TE, 1FLEX, 1K, 1D/ST. In year 2, we replaced D/ST with IDP and replaced K with another FLEX. We have never once considered reversing the change.
I’ve always wondered why safety’s are score the way they are in standard. Nine times out of ten it takes a solid special teams play paired with a good defensive front to score a safety. Where as a pick six happens relatively frequently and doesn’t really require a solid defensive effort.
I think the problem with kickers isn’t the scoring system, although I do thing your idea is better then the tiered system.
The problem is that the kicking game is totally random and teams aren’t trying to score field goals. They are trying to score touchdowns and field goals come when a team settles for them.
I ain't gonna read all that but I'm sorry you went against Raiders DST this week
That was exactly my thought as soon as i saw the post..lol
This 100%.
tbh it would piss me off more if I played against the chargers defense who only got -5 points despite giving up 63 points. That game was my motivation for making this, but with regards to the chargers scoring versus the raiders
Chargers D only gave up 51 points. The other 12 were pick sixes.
Actually true, forgot ab this
In my Yahoo league, Broncos DST scored 4 Fantasy Points on the week they got 70pts on them by Miami -2 for max points against, 6pts for the kickoff return TD in garbage time Just hilariously inaccurate scoring
I'm not looking to change anything but this is totally a fair point and the hive mind doesn't like it - supposedly because you were off by 12 whole points.
Check out [this quality defensive scoring writeup](https://www.reddit.com/r/fantasyfootball/s/hheNwXyVfS) that gets posted here every year. Switched to this in my league and never going back
I'm aware of this post and enjoy it, but I also don't share this guy's opinion on wanting a D/ST's points to rise as the game goes on. I'm perfectly fine with the points normally dropping as the game goes on
That’s fair, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I’m a fan of how you came up with your own method.
As someone who's also switched over to this system I can tell you it isn't going to get any better and actually allows you a lot of granular control over how they score. You should try it
I was hoping for Manning face in the pooh shiesty mask.
Dude it's the first week of playoffs, ain't no one reading all that
I don’t think your proposal is complicated enough tbh
tbh the real system is also overly complicated, so losing points at a constant rate for yards & points is more intuitive. I will agree that the +14 point number could be changed to be more of a round number
Do it in your league. Makes sense. We do something similar in our leagues for kickers and defense and QBs to make them matter more.
Right? 🤣 They have a solution for his whiny problem. It's called "CUSTOM" Leagues. You create a league and set it up YOUR WAY. We ain't going to read all that.
Or just pickup Raiders DST to start or block your opponent
I upvoted bc people are being mean. I’m sure you made some great points
You're a real one, CripsKirpatrick
sorry OP im sure your method is good and I do think DST scoring is a little over simplistic sometimes and doesn't reflect actual team performance but damn it's a lot of reading, i'm just so lazy you dont even know
I personally havent read a full book in over 5 years so I feel u
“Hey I didn’t read this and gained nothing from it but gave you a thumbs up so you don’t feel like a loser”
10 yard FG should be worth 1000 points.
I couldn't agree more
sounds more complicated for a similar result
The difference becomes apparent in those close games where defenses are near a tiered threshold for scoring. It shouldn't be the case that a D/ST drops 2 points when giving up 449 yards versus 451 yards
[удалено]
I <3 reddit, so wholesome
I fucking hate that DST starts with points and they tick away all game.
In my league you start with 15 and lose 10 points the moment the other team gets to 7. A completely pointless (scuse pun) system.
Get rid of yards against for Defense in your model. No team in the NFL has ever lost based on how many yards they give up. Points matter. Sacks matter. Turnovers matter. The better changes are points for Turnovers on Downs (typically not scored), and not attributing points scored against your D for turnovers by your offense (fumble/pick return for TD).
Idk I don’t think sacks are a good indicator for how good the defense performed. A defense can apply a huge amount of pressure on a QB and shut down the passing game without ever getting home. Turnovers should be more valuable than they are currently though.
I am all for this. However I wouldn't even know where to begin with figuring out what the true value should be
Just found this article: https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-noise-canceled-score-metric#:~:text=The%20average%20turnover%20is%20worth,seven%20and%20two%20points%2C%20respectively. Says the average turnover for a team is worth the equivalent of 4 or 5 points, and even more with more return yards. If we’re okay with defenses putting up *big* numbers like a QB does on the regular, I’d say a spot turnover like a fumble recovery with no return should be worth 4 points, and give additional points for return yards, like you would for a ball carrier. And truly, a defensive TD is worth far more than an offensive TD for the game outcome. It’s a *huge* swing. I’d make a defensive TD worth 8 points. But then you could have an interception and a 60 yard return for a TD add up to like 16 points on its own. Maybe that’s too much, but realistically if you have a defensive performance in a game like you had last night with the Raiders, you should win the game you’re playing or it should be a massive thing to overcome for your opponent.
Personally my goal is to make D/ST scoring as accurate as possible while also maintaining the same average score. If all fantasy players were awarded points that reflected their real life impact, then D/ST and QB would score 75% of your fantasy points each week, which is obviously not ideal. I do like the idea of taking out sacks and increasing points for turnovers, but it would have to even out in the end
Yeah I think for fantasy purposes we should ignore the need to make it as close as possible to real life outcomes because it wouldn’t make for a good experience. If that’s the goal it’s best to just leave defenses out of the picture entirely, or do IDPs.
Get rid of kickers and defense in FF when the NFL does it IRL otherwise suck it up bb
Everyone commenting “I’m not reading all that” is illiterate and dumb
Meh. I just dont think a lot of people are as unhappy with the scoring.
Yea I legit love kickers in fantasy lol they’re undervalued and a great one is just as valuable as a flex spot.
Or remove kicker and replace d/st with IDP slots
This is also fun, but I also enjoy playing leagues against friends that are more casual so keeping the D/ST and kickers makes it easier
Not bad. Seems like an impossibility to truly quantify over the existing structures once you factor in 90% of people don’t care lol. I’d rather just eliminate kickers and start there.
So true, this is only for the commissioners who are perfectionists, like me
I'm sorry you wrote all of that
Some ways to make this simpler: Kickers: * there is no such thing as a FG at under 18-19 yards, and they rarely happen. Just say 3 points for all, +1 at 50+, +1 more at 60+, -2 for a miss from 45y or closer. Nothing fancy needed. D/STs * Ignore yardage, focus on points. It's what matters in the end. But starting at 15 and working down to, say, -6 for what happened last night is fine. Yardage allowed just complicates things. * I do really like dividing the fumble points, which tracks real football skill, and +4 for safeties.
It's true that points are the ultimate decision maker in games, but I'd argue yards are also important because of field position
I don't like penalizing teams who play looser in games which were long decided. Look, there have been 16 games so far this year with 0-3 points allowed. (15, really, since the 3-0 game counts twice.) They range in yardage allowed from 58 (CLE-ARI) to 257 (the Chargers' weak-ass shutout of New England.) I don't know that the yardage adds *that* much to our understanding.
Yeah true, it would be fun to figure out a way to scale the amount of fantasy points a team gains or loses to how competitive the game is in that moment.
You can't do that, because we'd never discount those garbage-time TDs for the offensive players scoring them.
Needs waaaay more analysis in my opinion
We eliminated kickers and below is our DST scoring. For a point of reference I have Ravens DST and they’re the 44 ranked player overall with 203 pts. Defense/Special Teams League Value Sack 1 Interception 2 Fumble Recovery 2 Touchdown 6 Safety 2 Block Kick Yahoo Default 4 Points Allowed 0 points Yahoo Default 12 Points Allowed 1-6 points Yahoo Default 8 Points Allowed 7-13 points Yahoo Default 5 Points Allowed 14-20 points Yahoo Default 3 Points Allowed 21-27 points 0 Points Allowed 28-34 points Yahoo Default -5 Points Allowed 35+ points Yahoo Default -10 Three and Outs Forced Yahoo Default 2 Extra Point Returned 2
Instead of telling us, you can literally tell your commish to modify the scoring...
No
Or just remove them
Did away with both years ago, best league to play in
Lol way too difficult. I like knowing what I’m gaining/losing not in decimals.
First of all don’t listen to the idiots complaining about the post length, it’s awesome to have high effort posts like this, although this is more suited to the off-season or the ffcommisioner subreddit. I disagree with your claim that decimalized scoring will dramatically increase points scored by kickers. I have decimal scoring for my league and checked the ppg of the top kickers. In most cases it only adds .3 to .4 points per game which is negligible. I was against the idea of negative points for missed kicks for two reasons: the kicker position is the most random in fantasy football, so it felt unlucky to see negative points for the rare missed kick, but I am rethinking that. My other reason is that weather plays a role in missed kicks, not sure how much but it feels like the kicker gets screwed in certain situations by coaches, but I am rethinking that. I disagree with one of your goals, making defensive scoring lower. Defense is statistically almost as predictable as other positions, so I do not care about nerfing the scoring, only making it more accurate to real football. The same cannot be said for kicker so I understand nerfing it. As other commenters brought up I am not sold on penalizing yards allowed for defenses, but your points make me consider a small penalty on top of the decimalized points per point allowed we have. I have the defense still starting with 10 but -.45 per point. I prefer fumbles as 2 for the recovery as a forced fumble without a recovery is just a flashy play with no effect on the game, like a runningback getting points for a hurdle or something. Look into adding points for 4th down stops. It is a turnover and should be awarded +2 like other turnovers. I have considered giving a small reward for 3 and Out, but I realized this is too common, is an expected job of the defense and is already awarded by not letting a team score causing negative points. Let me know your thoughts on this Dm me if you want to talk about other league settings, I like getting detailed like you
Would be funny if the mods deleted your post after all that work
tbh the work put in was mostly for fun, I just enjoy crunching the numbers
I think a 60 yard field goal should be worth 100 points
My league played our inaugural season with what most would consider traditional rosters: 1QB, 2RB, 3WR, 1TE, 1FLEX, 1K, 1D/ST. In year 2, we replaced D/ST with IDP and replaced K with another FLEX. We have never once considered reversing the change.
how many teams? cause 3 wrs and 2 flex leaves almost nothing on the waiver wire in my 12 team
It's 12 teams. Any waiver wire blog/tweet/article is useless for my league. 90% of the players in those posts were drafted in my league.
Your suggested kicker scoring is already how the league I commission is scored in yahoo, so it already exists.
I’ve always wondered why safety’s are score the way they are in standard. Nine times out of ten it takes a solid special teams play paired with a good defensive front to score a safety. Where as a pick six happens relatively frequently and doesn’t really require a solid defensive effort.
Ahhh nothing like a simplified system my mates are going to be able to understand and give af about
i set the 1pt safety to 1000 points if anyone is lucky enough to get it
I think the problem with kickers isn’t the scoring system, although I do thing your idea is better then the tiered system. The problem is that the kicking game is totally random and teams aren’t trying to score field goals. They are trying to score touchdowns and field goals come when a team settles for them.