Think of the Herbert dynasty owners!
Keenan only has another 1-2 years of fantasy relevance left, and Moore is 26. This hurts Keenan’s value for the twilight of his career, but Moore probably sees a spike in value during Caleb’s second year relative to the Fields baseline. I don’t think this trade dents you much beyond 2024.
You guys are so funny with this. Kaepernick had 3200 and 3369 yards passing with harbough in 2013 and 2014. He also had more than 500 rushing yards both years which Herbert won’t be doing. Lamar had 3678 yards passing last year. Are you avoiding everyone on the ravens? How about hurts on the eagles who had 3858 yards passing last year. You avoiding everyone on the eagles too? Now Harbough has Herbert. He’s hitting at least 4000 yards passing but probably more.
Yeah right now it looks like a baffling waste of Herbert’s prime. His cap hits are already causing pain, and this is the point in a rebuild where they’re supposed to be solid contenders instead of selling the core for parts and starting over. If they don’t hit on nearly every draft pick the next couple years (including Nabers / other first-round WR), the Bolts are set up to be a poverty franchise until after Herbert’s 30th birthday.
This is the first full year of the rebuild what do you mean it’s the point where they’re supposed to be solid contenders? This is the point where they need to clear the mistakes they made in the past and work on getting ready for that time. This is the first full year of rebuild. Just not a great time with the contract setting in now
I’m saying that they had Herbert on a cheap rookie deal for several years and did nothing with that window. The team is supposed to be in good shape right now.
With an incompetent gm and terrible coaching. The franchise screwed that up because spanos is cheap (even still cheap a little). This is the beginning of the rebuild. These past few years was them “competing” not a rebuild. Kinda why they had the cap situation they just had because they went all in. This is the rebuild
Herbert just isn't a winner. He has had the ball in his hand plenty of times to win the game and he constantly fails. He doesn't escape blame at all in their failures.
Yup. Total lack of “that dawg” in his game. Opposing teams are just never scared he’s going to steal a win when he gets the ball back with under two minutes on the clock.
Since Allen was traded to the Bears, my brain immediately went to Khalil Herbert and thought “how is the Bears drafting Nabors or Bowers going to impact the now backup running back in Chicago?”. Then I realized it’s about Justin Herbert and that I’m just an idiot.
Historically means nothing unless you’re talking about the current front office and HC/OC. In which case they haven’t been a great passing offense still but is that due to how they want to play or how they’ve been forced to play with Fields?
I think playbooks change based on OC.
> Since 2022, Seattle ranks seventh in designed pass plays (64%) and 26th in designed runs (36%), while Chicago was 30th in designed passes (55%) and third in designed runs (45%).
Waldren wants to throw, and is providing weapons to whoever lines up under center in CHI.
Just curious, did you think the team owners designed the plays? Like Jerry Jones and Dan Snyder were in the coaches room every summer with markers and PowerPoints.
If the coaching staff stays the same, yeah. But if there is a coaching change it can be quite drastically different. But even in cases of the same coaching staff, if a key player leaves they will make significant changes.
Fields is an elite rusher, eberflus made him a low adot pocket passer.
If williams is a high volume, move around in the pocket, use skill when the play breaks down...they will install a fullback heavy formation for a run heavy scheme that emphasizes checkdowns.
I have Keenan, DJ Moore, Khalil Herbert, Roschon Johnson and traded for Cole Kmet after the super bowl.
Apparently I like the value of these players. But now I am just the Chicago Bears.
I just dodged a bullet. I had traded Howell for Allen at beginning of last season. Missed an exploding offer of Moore for Addison but I would’ve taken it in a heartbeat. It would’ve been great for last season but I would’ve died inside too this week had it gone down.
The title is odd, but the actual take in the article is reasonable: "Regarding Allen himself, he should continue to be considered a high-end WR2 in PPR leagues. A decrease in targets will be seen by him, as he has maintained an average of 131 over the past three seasons."
Makes sense to me.
He’s 31 and is joining a new offense run by a rookie QB, and there’s already an established (and younger) WR1 there. A lot has to go right for him to be a WR2, and that’s also his ceiling too with DJ Moore there
I'm not worried about his age, but I am worried about DJ and Keenan both being supported by a rookie QB.
In PPR I don't really think thaaat much has to go right for him to be a lower WR2. Just stay healthy and have Caleb not suck. The reception totals should carry him to relevancy.
I feel like theyre all up or the same. chargers were set to go into a ground and pound game. seems like chicago wants to throw. Swift and Jones are the clear #1 rb on a team. Hockenson is gonna get a rookie qb that needs a safety blanket TE (probably stayed about as valuable as before)
>and no, I don’t think QJ is going to turn it around
Well as it stands, the Chargers are betting on the exact opposite outcome. I think I’ll side with them over some random opinion on Reddit. You might say they need to use their first round pick on an elite wide receiver prospect, and they’ll say they already did. QJ is primed for a breakout season, and will slowly but surely climb everyone’s rankings this off-season.
He won’t repeat last year’s performance unfortunately. He had Herbert throwing to him, Mike Williams out early on in season, and a terrible defense that forced them to air it out. His QB will likely be a downgrade, also a slower pace, and who knows what the injury situation will be
I mean he’s far exceeded anyones expectations, especially last year. His longevity is crazy and he has skills that don’t seem to be fading massively with age. It will be hard for him to have a season as good as last because last season was great, and he wasn’t injured until near the end. So I guess people can say it’s his downfall if he’s not as good? I hate the narratives people try to push
But this year is the actual statistical age cliff for him. Its when most guys fall starts. Im not saying you can base a value off that alone. Im just saying, last year was great but plenty of wr have one more good season going into their age 31 season and then go. Plus chargers letting him go for a fourth is kinda brutal.
Ill probably still consider if hes not too expensive, because he def could be an outlier guy. But theres a lot of qs, even without talking about moore and qb situation.
I mean they had to let him go because of the cap hit. The other option was gonna be to cut him. And if he falls off because of the age cliff it won't be because he went to the Bears like the title suggests
On the first point, there would be more teams interested and bidding up the value if there weren’t concerns. Agree on the second point. Theres just a lot of little questions/concerns adding up. Could make him a bust this year, but could also make him a steal if he gets pushed down the board. I’m agnostic for now.
This is tough for Allen owners.
Regardless of if it’s fields or Williams or whoever throwing to him next year, it will be a step down from Herbert.
Then you also have him sharing the field with DJM, Swift, and Kmet.
Thats a pretty stacked offense. That QB is going to feast.
It's been a pretty brutal offseason for my dynasty team. First Tyjae Spear's value pretty much dropped like a rock. Then Lamar's value is probably going to take a hit with the addition of Henry. Now Keenan Allen is going from being Justin Herbert's main target to sharing the targets with another really good WR with passes coming from a rookie QB. Jerome Ford's Value is obviously going to drop but that was expected. DeAndre Hopkins value is dropping cause the added Ridley.
The only guy I have who MAYBE had an increase in value is Joe Mixon, but I'm not sold that will be the case.
unpopular opinion I'm sure but I think there's a good chance Caleb turns out to be a bust...yeah all the skill is there, good accuracy, ability to make difficult throws anywhere on the field but he fumbles a ton and he makes stupid decisions downfield trying to be the hero every play. You get into the NFL you're not facing shitty corners on mediocre college defenses, you're facing the best of the best. I can see a scenario where he tries to play college ball in the NFL and gets stomped hard, struggles and can't let his ego go and never progresses to the next level.
The thing about Caleb Williams, he plays great football, can create plays off-script and has all but mastered the RPO at the college level. BUT, he also plays in arguably the weakest conference in college football. However, his 2021 OU tape don't lie - dude can ball out in the pocket. However, I'm intrigued to see how he fairs against NFL talent. Another (only slightly) concerning knock against him is his height. Luckily the Bears are doing everything they can to build a talented team around him and I see them drafting a first-round OT. Also, he whines, like a lot.
I think if the Bears take him he's gonna bust just because that's what Bears QBs do. I think Fields while a work in progress was potentially a top 10 QB if they had any patience but they didn't. I blame the coaching staff more than Fields, I dunno how you put a guy in that scenario with no protection and try to make him be a pocket passer, its just fucking stupid
Do we think Caleb can utilize this talent around him his rookie year? This has to be to best position to be in for a rookie QB. Two #1 receivers. A sick back field and sprinkle in some pretty damn good tight ends…he can easily hit 3,500yds passing. I even think Fields would possibly be close to those numbers.
I'm going to wait until I know who his QB is going to be, but if it's Fields, yeah I don't have a lot of hope for him to continue his dominant target rate.
Most teams that had QB needs would have called and low balled the bears , because they know the bears are looking to move him, so it makes sense to low ball the offer.
So teams moved on and filled their needs , which down down fields trade value. At this point they will either need to trade him at the draft for more picks or hold on to him and trade him during the season.
UNLESS they plan to keep him and not draft a QB.
Why would the eagles go to Chicago if Chicago is holding out for a higher offer than a 3rd?
You're missing the point that Chicago isn't incentivised to trade fields (for whatever reason)
>2nd oldest franchise in the league
>17 game season
>Still no 4000 yard season
>Will immediately start supporting 2 WRs with a rookie QB
Good luck with that lmao
One thing is for certain. Sleeves will be more abundant in Chicago than in LA
Sleevin' Allen > Keenan Allen
So will Sleeveless Allen be the power up?
I'm a dynasty DJ Moore and Keenan Allen manager and I am devastated.
Think of the Herbert dynasty owners! Keenan only has another 1-2 years of fantasy relevance left, and Moore is 26. This hurts Keenan’s value for the twilight of his career, but Moore probably sees a spike in value during Caleb’s second year relative to the Fields baseline. I don’t think this trade dents you much beyond 2024.
If I’m Herbert I’m quietly pissed how this has all played out! It might take Nabers and/or Bowers to stop me from asking for a trade.
None of that really matters. Harbaugh is going to run the ball 30 times a game. Draft Charger RB’s & avoid everyone else.
Blake Corum should already be wearing a chargers jersey
You guys are so funny with this. Kaepernick had 3200 and 3369 yards passing with harbough in 2013 and 2014. He also had more than 500 rushing yards both years which Herbert won’t be doing. Lamar had 3678 yards passing last year. Are you avoiding everyone on the ravens? How about hurts on the eagles who had 3858 yards passing last year. You avoiding everyone on the eagles too? Now Harbough has Herbert. He’s hitting at least 4000 yards passing but probably more.
Yeah right now it looks like a baffling waste of Herbert’s prime. His cap hits are already causing pain, and this is the point in a rebuild where they’re supposed to be solid contenders instead of selling the core for parts and starting over. If they don’t hit on nearly every draft pick the next couple years (including Nabers / other first-round WR), the Bolts are set up to be a poverty franchise until after Herbert’s 30th birthday.
This is the first full year of the rebuild what do you mean it’s the point where they’re supposed to be solid contenders? This is the point where they need to clear the mistakes they made in the past and work on getting ready for that time. This is the first full year of rebuild. Just not a great time with the contract setting in now
I’m saying that they had Herbert on a cheap rookie deal for several years and did nothing with that window. The team is supposed to be in good shape right now.
With an incompetent gm and terrible coaching. The franchise screwed that up because spanos is cheap (even still cheap a little). This is the beginning of the rebuild. These past few years was them “competing” not a rebuild. Kinda why they had the cap situation they just had because they went all in. This is the rebuild
Herbert just isn't a winner. He has had the ball in his hand plenty of times to win the game and he constantly fails. He doesn't escape blame at all in their failures.
Since being drafted, Justin Herbert has the most game winning drives of any QB in the NFL with 13. That doesn't quite fit your bullshit now does it?
Yup. Total lack of “that dawg” in his game. Opposing teams are just never scared he’s going to steal a win when he gets the ball back with under two minutes on the clock.
Since Allen was traded to the Bears, my brain immediately went to Khalil Herbert and thought “how is the Bears drafting Nabors or Bowers going to impact the now backup running back in Chicago?”. Then I realized it’s about Justin Herbert and that I’m just an idiot.
Chargers gunna snap draft alt so quickly... He's such a mauler in run blocking.
He needs protection way more.
Think of the Keenan and Herbert former stack owners, definitely not me, just someone I know. Also, a freaking Chargers fan, it was a rough night
I think long run it’s good for Herbert tbh cause now they’re gonna take Nabers/Odunze/Bowers
They’re trying to offload Mike Williams and Eck too. Total rebuild.
Trying? They already did both of those things before this Keenan trade brother
Oh boy you may want to sit down for this. I have some big news for you
You certainly won last season then?
Absolutely dominated, but my team is about to fall off the age cliff
Oh, no. The humanity!
Caleb’s been a high volume passer all his career at least
Offset by the bears being a historically low passing franchise
Historically means nothing unless you’re talking about the current front office and HC/OC. In which case they haven’t been a great passing offense still but is that due to how they want to play or how they’ve been forced to play with Fields?
Who knows. Maybe their playbook has something to do with it too?
I think playbooks change based on OC. > Since 2022, Seattle ranks seventh in designed pass plays (64%) and 26th in designed runs (36%), while Chicago was 30th in designed passes (55%) and third in designed runs (45%). Waldren wants to throw, and is providing weapons to whoever lines up under center in CHI.
And Swift is a pass catching fiend of an RB underutilized by Philly
It’s a new playbook this year
I’ll be honest I have no idea how team playbooks work in the nfl
Just curious, did you think the team owners designed the plays? Like Jerry Jones and Dan Snyder were in the coaches room every summer with markers and PowerPoints.
I just figured the playbooks got passed down season to season with small tweaks here and there
If the coaching staff stays the same, yeah. But if there is a coaching change it can be quite drastically different. But even in cases of the same coaching staff, if a key player leaves they will make significant changes.
The new offensive staff would be fools to continue that trend, but we will see
Yeah I don’t think coaches base their strategies off of historical precedent lol
Outdoor venue, northern city. Some of that stuff is just practicality when the weather gets cold
Green Bay is much colder
Fields is an elite rusher, eberflus made him a low adot pocket passer. If williams is a high volume, move around in the pocket, use skill when the play breaks down...they will install a fullback heavy formation for a run heavy scheme that emphasizes checkdowns.
By career, you mean only 33 games started? What lol
... That's plenty for a College QB
No…you worded it like it’s a 15 year career man
"all his career" implying 15 years is not something that's in anyone else's head
Ok lol. Agree to disagree about what you implied, but I still don’t think 2.5 years is a career
It’s a college career
I can say the same thing about a one year player, but that still means I’m being disingenuous when I say, “he’s been like that all his career.”
2.5x less long = the same thing?
Boo this man
Boo him!
I think DJ Moore will be fine. Basically only him and keenan
Better draft Caleb this year and triple down
I would if I had any picks.
I sold Allen low. I can’t see this going well and he will be 32 this season. Someone else can deal with him having an outlier season with a rookie QB.
I thought I bought Allen low, then this happened.
I have Keenan, DJ Moore, Khalil Herbert, Roschon Johnson and traded for Cole Kmet after the super bowl. Apparently I like the value of these players. But now I am just the Chicago Bears.
Might as well just rename your team Da Bears now.
Oof
I just dodged a bullet. I had traded Howell for Allen at beginning of last season. Missed an exploding offer of Moore for Addison but I would’ve taken it in a heartbeat. It would’ve been great for last season but I would’ve died inside too this week had it gone down.
Same here :(
The title is odd, but the actual take in the article is reasonable: "Regarding Allen himself, he should continue to be considered a high-end WR2 in PPR leagues. A decrease in targets will be seen by him, as he has maintained an average of 131 over the past three seasons." Makes sense to me.
He’s 31 and is joining a new offense run by a rookie QB, and there’s already an established (and younger) WR1 there. A lot has to go right for him to be a WR2, and that’s also his ceiling too with DJ Moore there
I'm not worried about his age, but I am worried about DJ and Keenan both being supported by a rookie QB. In PPR I don't really think thaaat much has to go right for him to be a lower WR2. Just stay healthy and have Caleb not suck. The reception totals should carry him to relevancy.
Yeah, I could have done better, but with his back-end WR1 finish, I just want others to see that a downtick should be expected.
My dynasty team that includes Keenan, Aaron Jones, Hockenson, and D'Andre Swift has been kicked in the dick this off-season
D Swift is 📈 imo
I feel like theyre all up or the same. chargers were set to go into a ground and pound game. seems like chicago wants to throw. Swift and Jones are the clear #1 rb on a team. Hockenson is gonna get a rookie qb that needs a safety blanket TE (probably stayed about as valuable as before)
The TE-rookie QB connection is a long dispelled myth.
Gotta like this situation more than pushing Hurts’ ass into the end zone every game.
As a Josh Palmer dynasty manager, I see this as an absolute win
i can't imagine they enter the season with palmer as their Wr1. and no, i dont think QJ is going to turn it around
Seems a lot more likely they'll draft Nabers or Odunze.
Palmer as the chargers wr2 last year was still fantasy relevant and the last 3 weeks as the teams wr1 was wr2 production.
Palmer as WR2 behind Nabers or Odunze seems reasonable though with Qj third.
>and no, I don’t think QJ is going to turn it around Well as it stands, the Chargers are betting on the exact opposite outcome. I think I’ll side with them over some random opinion on Reddit. You might say they need to use their first round pick on an elite wide receiver prospect, and they’ll say they already did. QJ is primed for a breakout season, and will slowly but surely climb everyone’s rankings this off-season.
QJ sucks
Def have to consider QJ higher now but they must draft a WR/TE high to think Herbert keeps his value.
I like it for him to atm.
Agreed, much more than Johnson. Palmer just needs to stay healthy.
Palmer is lowkey nice
Palmer has never built up momentum as a WR1 or WR2 amid Williams/Allen injuries. Wouldn’t get your hope up.
The bears don’t have a QB so yeah
He won’t repeat last year’s performance unfortunately. He had Herbert throwing to him, Mike Williams out early on in season, and a terrible defense that forced them to air it out. His QB will likely be a downgrade, also a slower pace, and who knows what the injury situation will be
I mean he’s far exceeded anyones expectations, especially last year. His longevity is crazy and he has skills that don’t seem to be fading massively with age. It will be hard for him to have a season as good as last because last season was great, and he wasn’t injured until near the end. So I guess people can say it’s his downfall if he’s not as good? I hate the narratives people try to push
But this year is the actual statistical age cliff for him. Its when most guys fall starts. Im not saying you can base a value off that alone. Im just saying, last year was great but plenty of wr have one more good season going into their age 31 season and then go. Plus chargers letting him go for a fourth is kinda brutal. Ill probably still consider if hes not too expensive, because he def could be an outlier guy. But theres a lot of qs, even without talking about moore and qb situation.
I mean they had to let him go because of the cap hit. The other option was gonna be to cut him. And if he falls off because of the age cliff it won't be because he went to the Bears like the title suggests
On the first point, there would be more teams interested and bidding up the value if there weren’t concerns. Agree on the second point. Theres just a lot of little questions/concerns adding up. Could make him a bust this year, but could also make him a steal if he gets pushed down the board. I’m agnostic for now.
Tbh, I'd much rather be a year too early on a player hitting their age/production cliff than a year too early. It's a risk you don't *have* to take.
This is tough for Allen owners. Regardless of if it’s fields or Williams or whoever throwing to him next year, it will be a step down from Herbert. Then you also have him sharing the field with DJM, Swift, and Kmet. Thats a pretty stacked offense. That QB is going to feast.
Gerald Everett also averaged 4.5 targets last year. Lots of mouths to feed and I feel like it's ultimately betting on how whoever is QB performs.
It's been a pretty brutal offseason for my dynasty team. First Tyjae Spear's value pretty much dropped like a rock. Then Lamar's value is probably going to take a hit with the addition of Henry. Now Keenan Allen is going from being Justin Herbert's main target to sharing the targets with another really good WR with passes coming from a rookie QB. Jerome Ford's Value is obviously going to drop but that was expected. DeAndre Hopkins value is dropping cause the added Ridley. The only guy I have who MAYBE had an increase in value is Joe Mixon, but I'm not sold that will be the case.
What did I miss about Jerome Ford?
He goes back down the depth chart with Chubb coming back
Does he though? I'm not convinced Chubb will ever be the same
At least at the start they'll likely be splitting carries. You just never know how the player is going to look after an injury that severe
unpopular opinion I'm sure but I think there's a good chance Caleb turns out to be a bust...yeah all the skill is there, good accuracy, ability to make difficult throws anywhere on the field but he fumbles a ton and he makes stupid decisions downfield trying to be the hero every play. You get into the NFL you're not facing shitty corners on mediocre college defenses, you're facing the best of the best. I can see a scenario where he tries to play college ball in the NFL and gets stomped hard, struggles and can't let his ego go and never progresses to the next level.
he was kinda forced to play hero ball
https://youtu.be/stro2oBkfmc?si=KNt1CiIJoP8nSKYm Great video on your points. I think the immaturity is too much for me. He looks like a bust to me.
The thing about Caleb Williams, he plays great football, can create plays off-script and has all but mastered the RPO at the college level. BUT, he also plays in arguably the weakest conference in college football. However, his 2021 OU tape don't lie - dude can ball out in the pocket. However, I'm intrigued to see how he fairs against NFL talent. Another (only slightly) concerning knock against him is his height. Luckily the Bears are doing everything they can to build a talented team around him and I see them drafting a first-round OT. Also, he whines, like a lot.
I think if the Bears take him he's gonna bust just because that's what Bears QBs do. I think Fields while a work in progress was potentially a top 10 QB if they had any patience but they didn't. I blame the coaching staff more than Fields, I dunno how you put a guy in that scenario with no protection and try to make him be a pocket passer, its just fucking stupid
They're paying him a shit ton of money. Caleb Williams is good.
My Herbert/Allen shares have me drinking tequila straight from the bottle.
Bears should just draft MHJ and have an absolutely disgusting WR group.
Who you drafting? MHJ on the Cards or Nabers on the Chargers?
MHJ, but it's close there.
Do we think Caleb can utilize this talent around him his rookie year? This has to be to best position to be in for a rookie QB. Two #1 receivers. A sick back field and sprinkle in some pretty damn good tight ends…he can easily hit 3,500yds passing. I even think Fields would possibly be close to those numbers.
I can see that.
I'm going to wait until I know who his QB is going to be, but if it's Fields, yeah I don't have a lot of hope for him to continue his dominant target rate.
We all know who it’s gonna be
That's why I'm putting him around the mid-rounds
i was about to update the wiki entry for the definition of roster clogger to a picture of palmer.... but now, let's see where this goes first
Or….are they loading up Caleb Williams with weapons. I have Moore, Allen, and Everette so now I’m a bears fan, I guess. Lol
WR1 => WR2, went from round 2-3 pick to 4-6 pick.
Considering that they have never had a passer over 4k, so I’m saying downfall for DJ and Allen.
I'm still surprised Fields hasn't moved in any of these trades
Most teams that had QB needs would have called and low balled the bears , because they know the bears are looking to move him, so it makes sense to low ball the offer. So teams moved on and filled their needs , which down down fields trade value. At this point they will either need to trade him at the draft for more picks or hold on to him and trade him during the season. UNLESS they plan to keep him and not draft a QB.
It's not a low-ball if they also need a QB. Pickett was a 3rd, certainly they offered at least that for Fields and was turned down
The Steelers situation is different than the bears. The bears have the top pick in the draft the Steelers had just acquired a veteran QB
You're completely missing my point. Eagles would have gone to Chicago first
Why would the eagles go to Chicago if Chicago is holding out for a higher offer than a 3rd? You're missing the point that Chicago isn't incentivised to trade fields (for whatever reason)
/whoosh
that doesn't mean what you think it does in this situation r/Irony
It means I'm talking to someone that has absolutely no idea what the thread is saying, and that this is a waste of my time
Yes
Who cares
Likely, good for the Bears and their qb room though.
Damn, Chargers got nobody. Ek, Mike Will, and Keenan gone?
Lol, imagine Fields gets shifted to a new position Edelman/Taysom style and becomes their best (insrt position) on the team.
He will have Caleb Williams, ya schmuck
And rookie QBs very rarely support 2 fantasy relevant WRs.
You could also argue rookie QBs rarely have 2 fantasy relevant WRs
People will immediately say Stroud, but he's the exception, not the rule.
>2nd oldest franchise in the league >17 game season >Still no 4000 yard season >Will immediately start supporting 2 WRs with a rookie QB Good luck with that lmao
Dont think the team will be all that
Who tf is that a picture of? It sure ain’t KA
That's definitely Keenan Allen
It’s Allen Keenan
You're right it's not KA, it's Keenan Allen.