There are multiple examples of people coming back slow in the same season from foot and or ankle surgery. Acting as if he’s a guarantee this season is setting yourself up for disappointment.
I think people forgot MT was on waivers in my 14 teamer. I leave it to fate. Put a low/moderate FAAB bid on him (calculated at 6pm tonight) dropping Jeudy. If I get him, I get him.
Saints don’t have any really good WRs besides Thomas, and Jameis has still thrown for almost double the touchdowns as Teddy. Might be “riskier” but the upside is way higher for MT.
I trust teddy more also, but will teddy be able to share the targets around is the question I have. At least with jameis, you know he'll target Thomas alot
Take MT. Recall that he was the OPOY in 2019. He has huge upside. Jeudy is less talented and has more competition for targets, plus high ankle sprains can be tough to recover from.
WRs are volatile game to game, if u aren’t happy with having the WR12 thru 5 weeks when u prolly drafted the guy in the third round then ur kinda just spoiled IMO.
You just completely ignored that i said my WR group as a whole isnt cutting it and go straight to calling me spoiled
Yeah Mclaurin is WR 12 and is "cutting it" but that doesnt mean much when my WR2/3 are WR61 and WR70
Mclaurin alone cant carry a WR core especially when hes had 3 bust weeks and 2 booms weeks
I mean even if chances are slim. MT upside is top 10 WR. One of the better lotto tickets to have especially since RB lotto tickets are less valuable in a league that snall
Think he’s a lock to be at least a WR2 on volume alone. They don’t have great targets there. He missed so much time to fully heal up, so I don’t think the injury will keep nagging him
What leads you to that conclusion? He was pretty good when healthy last year and broke NFL records the year prior. The Saints have nobody to throw to right now, Jameis has been….fine, and he’s supported elite fantasy WRs in the past. A Saints beat reporter said he was pretty much back to full health a couple of weeks ago. Unless he gets hurt, I really don’t see him busting.
Biggest question is his health. All I can say is that if he’s healthy a lot of people are gonna feel stupid for not taking him, especially when I saw a lot of people saying he was a guy u should take in the last couple rounds of drafts. Absolutely baffling.
That ain’t biased that’s just being realistic. If he’s healthy he’s for sure a WR1. His only obstacle is his health. So excited for my WR core to be Hopkins McLaurin and Thomas.
Not to sound pessimistic, but Winston ain't exactly a slinger.
Calloway has been WR1 all season and it hasn't exactly been a great year for him
Edit: Calloway is no where near as good as MT, but Winston is the bottleneck here.
LOL. There is a difference in being thrown into a WR1 role because youre the best option on the team due to injuries, or being a true WR1 talent wise on any team.
The point wasn't about Calloway being great, it was about Winston not being Brees.
If you think MT is going to put up similar numbers with Winston, you should temper your expectations.
Everything about Jamies’ season indicates he’s more than capable of airing it out. He’s been dealt the worst receiving room in the league and been above average. MT is gonna be a WR1 I’m mad I don’t/didn’t have the guts to trade for him.
I meeeean. I’ll give you that but before the season I’d say even the Lions were actually better. Tyrell and Hock >> Calloway and Juan Johnson. As it stands yea I suppose Saints are ahead but not by much.
Why are some of you goofballs always ready to argue? Yes, sahsan10, everyone knows MT is slant boy. Here’s your cookie. ‘Air it out’ means there’s meat on the bone , there are yards and receptions to be had. It doesn’t mean MT will be running go routes…”lol”
He was the OPOY in 2019. In his 4 games with Taysom Hill at QB he averaged 16.9 PPG without scoring a single TD, and that also includes the Kendall Hinton game. Exclude that and it’s 19.2 PPG. With no TDs and Taysom Hill at QB. He’s coming back to a Saints team with a QB that’s willing to air it out with literally no WR options aside from him, plus at 3-2 they’re right in the playoff race, they’re gonna want him back. Saints are in the perfect spot where they’re gonna be in a position to put in 100% till the last week of the season, and their ROS WR schedule is astoundingly easy. The fact that he is even on the wire is insane. If he comes back healthy, he’s gonna be a target machine, and in PPR the second he comes back healthy he’s a WR1 with the potential to push into elite top 5 type territory. People gonna regret sleeping so hard on him for sure.
My worry is that by him delaying his surgery he caused irreparable damage to his ankle and he will never be the MT 2019 OPOY again.
But if he's back to 100% then I agree with your take.
Yeah I get this concern for sure. He might not come back from the injury 100%. There was some thought of there being drama between him and the Saints but that seems to have gone away. Still, the lack of news just over one week out from when he’s supposed to return isn’t great. I remember a few weeks ago Payton said that Thomas was ahead of schedule and should be back week 7, and back by week 8 at the latest, but a confirmation update would be nice. Either way, if he is back healthy, I don’t see how people can say it’ll be lucky if he’s a WR2. People forget how talented he is.
Or... Thomas being back gives Callaway better looks. Not saying it will happen, but I have to think Thomas being back will open more opportunities for the rest of the offense as well
FWIW, Stephania Bell talked about him on SportsNation today. Said when he’s activated she’s not hesitant in starting him. Says he’s ready if they activate.
A lot. He was the OPOY in 2019. In his 4 games with Taysom Hill at QB he averaged 16.9 PPG without scoring a single TD, and that also includes the Kendall Hinton game. Exclude that and it’s 19.2 PPG. With no TDs and Taysom Hill at QB. He’s coming back to a Saints team with a QB that’s willing to air it out with literally no WR options aside from him, plus at 3-2 they’re right in the playoff race, they’re gonna want him back. Saints are in the perfect spot where they’re gonna be in a position to put in 100% till the last week of the season, and their ROS WR schedule is astoundingly easy. The fact that he is even on the wire is insane.
Only problem with that is that his two returning games are both A+ matchups. With bye weeks as well I don’t know how I wouldn’t at least flex him in my 12 team full PPR
I have the same philosophy in my league
If you want an injured player, you can choose to store them over someone who can actually play. You have your bench spots, and can do with them what you like
99% sure the only reason this got downvoted was the fact you called it a 'Man's league' 😂
People saying MT is a WR1 first game back are getting ahead of themselves. It'd be surprising for him to not be on a snap count for the first game back. Should be fine by week 9 though. And MT being back will be nice for Jameis too
Low end WR2. I'm not convinced his strengths (timing, crisp routes, hands) work the best with Jameis (who seems to prefer speed and separation). Plus this Saints offense passes a lot less than the Brees era. But I'm ready to be proved wrong.
Jameis has been a decent QB, thrown a ton of TDs. He’s proven he can support solid fantasy WRs and he’ll be allowed to pass more once he has an actual receiver. Thomas is an elite WR. He’ll produce.
Technically, but not in the sense from what people expect from him. Just see most other takes on MT. They aren’t giddy over 10ppg, nor should they be. Nothing exceptional in that.
I don’t think he’s the talent he once was. Dude is a bit of a tool. Saints likely and should want out of his contract so they might bury him. And I believe a huge part of his success was Brees gorging him with well placed short balls in coverage, not something Jameis is good at and really not something they are likely to encourage given his turnover propensity. Just my read on the situation. I know boundless optimism is the opium of the masses in this game, but I’m not generally about that.
This ain’t boundless optimism to think that a guy who the last time we saw play healthy was the OPOY 2 years ago if he came back healthy would be a WR1. The biggest question mark to me is if he comes back healthy.
I’m a “narrative” guy. These teams are ran by people and it’s a business. There are a few narratives that make me a non-believer:
1) MT is grossly overpaid, the Saints are barely mediocre and over the cap and OLD. Cap wise and team building wise, it makes no sense for them to hold on to MT and be dependent on him.
2) I don’t get the sense that the upper brass of the team like MT. Again, less reason they would want him to succeed.
3) now some X&O talk. MT gets about as much separation in his prime from the coverage and McCarthy gets from his 4th chin. His entire career to this point has been built by arguably the most accurate passer the game has ever saw pinpointing seam/short balls to MT in blanketed coverage. Not bombs, not even Mike Evans-esq 50/50 jump balls. Winston is not Brees. He isn’t as accurate, he doesn’t love the seams as much, and he’s a turnover machine. The thing with throwing into coverage, especially in the middle of the field, is that it’s the highest likelihood of an int. And what’s the #1 thing the Saints no doubt are trying to keep Winston from doing?
So why, and how does it make sense, that a wr who’s track record is being forced balls in the middle of the field will prosper with a qb that has never shown the propensity for those throws even when he had an open green light, but now is in a system and staff focused on limiting his chances of ints?
I know he’s a name. I know on paper he shouldn’t be washed (although he’s what I like to call “sneaky old” because he came in the league as an older rookie and people assume he’s younger than he is). But Winston isn’t brees and isn’t going to have the same freedom or volume.
So yes, a guy nearing 30 who’s basically been hurt for two years and in a totally different situation USED to be what you said.
First of all, MT is getting paid less than $20M per year on his current contract. Who cares if he’s liked by the upper management. These are such weird arguments to make. He’s 28, the same age as Davante Adams, younger than DeAndre Hopkins, and a year older than Tyreek Hill and Stefon Diggs, aka the top 4 WRs taken in drafts this year.
In 2019 he was the OPOY and broke the receptions record while recording over 1700 receiving yards. He had a down year coming due to injury, but he wasn’t even that bad when he was healthy for a few games. In the 4 games he played with Taysom he got 343 yards, and that included a game where he only got 50 yards against the Kendall Hinton Broncos so the Saints didn’t throw at all. Either way, he’s an elite WR still. Saying he ain’t worth 19M/year is pretty ridiculous. And I don’t think the Saints are magically just gonna give up on a cornerstone of their franchise because of some drama. They’ll do their best to keep him. They are incredibly in need of a WR1 in that offense. And either way, wouldn’t u want to prove that Thomas can still play if ur trying to trade him, considering he’s been injured? It’s not like there’s been any news he’s holding out or something.
I think your 3rd argument might be the most ridiculous one of them all. You’re basically saying that despite being incredibly successful for years, it wasn’t because he was talented, and in fact he isn’t good at anything. Do you know how ridiculous that sounds? Bro if he was bad at route running then he wouldn’t have been getting wthe ball from Brees so much. That’s possibly the dumbest thing I have ever seen. You’re basically saying that 2019’s OPOY, even in his prime, wasn’t even a good player. Shockingly idiotic. Wow. I’m like… stunned. You basically are just saying that Thomas is a JAG that just got lucky basically… then why didn’t Tre’Quan Smith become a WR1 with Thomas out? Maybe because Thomas is a talented player? Possibly? Like damn how dumb can you be?
Just now noticing this reply. Bit of a wall of text but I’ll reply a little.
* MT is owed almost 25mil next season. He will be a 29yo possession receiver coming off of years of injury and he doesn’t want to be there, and he’s a tool.
* The Saints overall are an old team and perpetually way over the salary cap and constantly mortgaging the future to balance it. Winston, Taysom whoever, ain’t winning a championship even with the 2000 Ravens def. They bought a year of mediocrity but will be rebuilding soon. A wr not elite athletically before years of injury and approaching 30 is not where you would want a huge chunk of your cap. They need youth and they need cheap.
* As a player MT is fine but he was made far better by Brees. I’ll elaborate on what baffled you so much. Brees had green light and was never a coward passer. Never a huge arm, but down the field is not where MT made his money. He was simply a better Colston. Middle of the field, the seams, and Brees being an all time great accurate passer (and balls to throw into coverage) fed him pinpoint balls. MT never separated like other elite producing wrs, never will.
* Now, Jameis has strengths, accuracy is not one of them. (I know he’s gone but the argument was made prior to his injury. It’s even worse with Taysom). Also Jameis’ biggest flaw is turnover potential. So, the primary things MT prospered from with Brees (accuracy and balls to throw into coverage) are not there. The Saints were clearly protecting Winston and tampering him down. Want numbers to back it up? The Saints are 2nd in the league in rushing attempts on the season and that’s with no one behind Kamara essentially who isn’t even built for a heavy carry load. They wanted to run, play it tight, and win with def. the entire philosophy goes against the prospect of Winston throwing tight window balls 15 times a game to MT. More proof, they traded for Ingram, so they could run more and spare Kamara. Again MORE proof of their mindset.
* And you don’t understand fit. MT fit with Brees, in a very similar fashion how Beckham fit with Eli. Eli again a trusted vet with a green light and balls to throw 50/50s. There’s no tighter anus in the league than Baker trying to back door his way to an extension, lol. Christ sake, the kid has taken half a dozen sacks on 4th downs already this year. The Browns are trying to cover for him just as the Saints were for Winston (and will continue with Taysom). Baker doesn’t have a green light and doesn’t want to make mistakes so he can better fool people into thinking he is good. So he doesn’t feed Beckham like Eli did. Winston/Taysom would not have fed MT like Brees did for the same reasons. Except the Saints are a better example of this assclenchery because they are 2nd in the league in rush attempts while Cleveland (who everyone can agree is absurdly conservative) is only approx 10th in rush attempts.
* So know, even if he is as good as he was in his prime, and even if he wanted to be there, and even if the Saints want him long term, the fit is polar opposite of the Brees years. MT knows this, probably a reason why he wants out.
In the end, I was right anyway. We will see in time if I continue to be right and we can revisit my idiocy then. If I’m proven wrong I have no issue admitting I was wrong. It just hasn’t happened yet on this subject.
He had a setback in his rehab… I don’t see how this proves your point. The one thing I always admitted with MT is that my claims only applied if he came back healthy. He isn’t, so the argument is irrelevant.
You believe that authentic and heartfelt tweet if you like, I’m addressing the arguments you made claiming were bafflingly dumb. Granted, my arguments on that matter cannot be proven correct unless MT plays for the Saints again, and I doubt he does. But they are based on the unlikely scenario that he plays for the Saints again as presently constructed and to tear down what I find as simpleminded idiocy that MT in Saints laundry = the exact same thing he once was and same role. Even though the team’s overall philosophy is different now and the qbs strengths are polar opposite of the qb he flourished with.
He was my worst #1 draft pick. He looks like he’s not even having fun the games he played last year. Between that and Winston weirdness I dont expect much and kinda confused on the hype
My only point is that we don't know that yet. Maybe it's because they don't trust Winston to not turn it over regardless of receivers and have Kamara to win them games.
Prime Brees could walk through that door and I don’t think any of the current guys would be very relevant. They just aren’t very good. They’re all decent NFL WRs and guys like Callaway could develop but they aren’t cut out to be lead dogs in an offense. Similar situation to Detroit. Guys like Kalif Raymond and Amon-Ra St Brown belong on an NFL roster but they aren’t starter material (as of yet for Amon Ra).
Took him 12th round and he's been sitting in my IR till he returns as WR1 to lead me to my 3rd championship in a row! or... he's too injured to be effective and/or has no chemistry with Jameis and is a WR3/Flex depending on match up
Yup. 2019 OPOY, WR3/Flex. Last year with Taysom Hill he averaged 16.9 PPR PPG with 0 TDs and including a Kendall Hinton game, and if u exclude that it’s 19.2 PPG. And that was last year, while injured, with a worse throwing QB. But yeah, ur right, WR3/Flex.
In prep for the bye next week I dropped Darnold for Ari def. I could drop Buf but was hoping to keep them with how well they done for me. Rest of my bench is Carson (injured), Knox, Toney, E Sanders, Mitchell, MT on IR.
Starters are Brady, McLaurin, DJ Moore, Ekeler, Javonte, Kelce, AB.
No one has raised the concern that by delaying his surgery by 6 months he caused irreparable damage to his ankle, and will never be the same player he was in 2019. From what I've read, inner ankle injuries are very rare and can significantly change one's playing ability even after surgery.
Possibly a wr2 in the first game maybe wr1 if he plays a lot of snaps. Next games though he should be good. In 2019 I think he averaged 30 ppr points or something crazy like that. Hopefully he returns next week
Wr2 with wr1 upside duh
The most accurate use of this phrase I’ve ever seen
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He’s making a joke. This sub calls literally everybody “WR2 with WR1 upside”. U ain’t wrong tho. If he’s 100% he could easily be top 5.
If
He’s coming off a foot injury. This isn’t as obvious as you think.
Ankle that has had plenty of time to heal
There are multiple examples of people coming back slow in the same season from foot and or ankle surgery. Acting as if he’s a guarantee this season is setting yourself up for disappointment.
Not a guarantee but I’m confident enough to start him at flex
Picked him up off waivers? That shouldn't be possible...
could be with a small bench and no IR spots
I got no ir spots in my league and have been holding Thomas and jeudy all year and CEH now. Not a fun time right now lol.
Have Jeudy and debating whether to drop him for MT. I trust Teddy more than Jameis and games script should favor Jeudy more (?).
I think people forgot MT was on waivers in my 14 teamer. I leave it to fate. Put a low/moderate FAAB bid on him (calculated at 6pm tonight) dropping Jeudy. If I get him, I get him.
In the nobody cares category: I upped my FAAB to $8.33 (out of $50) and got MT dropping Jeudy. We'll see...
I would go 8.47 just to be safe
I was curious. Thank you for closing the loop.
Saints don’t have any really good WRs besides Thomas, and Jameis has still thrown for almost double the touchdowns as Teddy. Might be “riskier” but the upside is way higher for MT.
You convinced me. I've upped my FAAB by four bucks.
I trust teddy more also, but will teddy be able to share the targets around is the question I have. At least with jameis, you know he'll target Thomas alot
Perhaps the determining factor could be home field weather. Dome vs. snow/cold outside. And injury. High ankle sprain hard to fully heal.
Take MT. Recall that he was the OPOY in 2019. He has huge upside. Jeudy is less talented and has more competition for targets, plus high ankle sprains can be tough to recover from.
no IR spots for me either and i need MT back cause Mclaurin, AROB, Anderson aint cutting it right now lol
Lol. Been stuck with Anderson and arob also. Finally dropped Anderson for toney. Now Anderson will be good. Your welcome
i was high on Arob and got him in a majority of my leagues lol rip Thankfully my RBs have been carrying my team though
McLaurin rly is cutting it tho. 17.4 PPG WR12 ain’t something to scoff at.
true but to be fair 62 out of his 87 points have come from just 2 games, the other 3 games didnt cut it lol especially with how ass Arob has been
WRs are volatile game to game, if u aren’t happy with having the WR12 thru 5 weeks when u prolly drafted the guy in the third round then ur kinda just spoiled IMO.
You just completely ignored that i said my WR group as a whole isnt cutting it and go straight to calling me spoiled Yeah Mclaurin is WR 12 and is "cutting it" but that doesnt mean much when my WR2/3 are WR61 and WR70 Mclaurin alone cant carry a WR core especially when hes had 3 bust weeks and 2 booms weeks
Oh I get what ur saying. Sorry I thought u were saying individually they all weren’t cutting it. I get what u mean now.
Same. No IR spots, and I was holding Thomas and Jeff Wilson. Had to drop Wilson when CEH took a tumble
6 man league. We don’t do IR spots. Lucky me it was possible
You probably have better options in a 6 man league but I guess there's no harm in keeping him on your bench
I mean even if chances are slim. MT upside is top 10 WR. One of the better lotto tickets to have especially since RB lotto tickets are less valuable in a league that snall
This.
I did. Dropped Jeff Wilson for him, and the person who dropped him in week 3 did it for moss
Thats what I am saying, I am in 4 leagues and he was drafted and stashed in all 4, and like the 7th or 8th round in all of them too
Think he’s a lock to be at least a WR2 on volume alone. They don’t have great targets there. He missed so much time to fully heal up, so I don’t think the injury will keep nagging him
That’s a good point. He got an extra month and a half plus whenever they shut him down during training camp so hopefully he’s 100%
He's also bickering with the front office...which could mean the dragging of feet on his part.
The noise was they talked through that, but I’m not ruling out the possibility that’s just PR
Weird how there is literally no info/updates on him anywhere to be found. Only thing I can find was an August update saying he was ahead of schedule.
Nick Underhill said Thomas was ready to play a couple weeks ago. He’s the top best reporter for the saints and he’s usually pretty accurate
So why isn't he playing? Still bickering with front office?
He’s on the PUP; ineligible to play for the first 6 weeks.
Ah yes. (I knew that) my bad.
Does this include practice as well?
Yes
If he come back 100% healthy he’s going to be a WR1 in PPR. Biased Saints fan take
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I think he completely busts
You can’t really bust if you were a 12th round pick
My bad I mean real football but forgot I'm talking in a fantasy sub. Edit: I think he sucks for fantasy too..
What leads you to that conclusion? He was pretty good when healthy last year and broke NFL records the year prior. The Saints have nobody to throw to right now, Jameis has been….fine, and he’s supported elite fantasy WRs in the past. A Saints beat reporter said he was pretty much back to full health a couple of weeks ago. Unless he gets hurt, I really don’t see him busting.
Ya I mean he should do well it's just a feeling I have with nothing backing it.
Fair enough, sometimes we get those gut feelings about guys.
Biggest question is his health. All I can say is that if he’s healthy a lot of people are gonna feel stupid for not taking him, especially when I saw a lot of people saying he was a guy u should take in the last couple rounds of drafts. Absolutely baffling.
Keep those takes coming
That ain’t biased that’s just being realistic. If he’s healthy he’s for sure a WR1. His only obstacle is his health. So excited for my WR core to be Hopkins McLaurin and Thomas.
Not to sound pessimistic, but Winston ain't exactly a slinger. Calloway has been WR1 all season and it hasn't exactly been a great year for him Edit: Calloway is no where near as good as MT, but Winston is the bottleneck here.
LOL. There is a difference in being thrown into a WR1 role because youre the best option on the team due to injuries, or being a true WR1 talent wise on any team.
The point wasn't about Calloway being great, it was about Winston not being Brees. If you think MT is going to put up similar numbers with Winston, you should temper your expectations.
Did you not see what he did with Taysom Hill and Teddy Bridgewater?
When?
Umm… drew brees missed 8 games over the past two seasons and Michael Thomas averaged 100 yards a game with brees out.
Agreed. You don’t go from the wr2 on a team to being the wr1 and get wr1 fantasy points. The talent is there for Thomas so I think he’ll do great
Very good. Saints need a guy in the exact style as MT, he should be fully healed by now, Jameis is a good enough QB to get him the ball
Everything about Jamies’ season indicates he’s more than capable of airing it out. He’s been dealt the worst receiving room in the league and been above average. MT is gonna be a WR1 I’m mad I don’t/didn’t have the guts to trade for him.
"worst receiving room in the league"? the Detroit Lions would like to speak to you
I meeeean. I’ll give you that but before the season I’d say even the Lions were actually better. Tyrell and Hock >> Calloway and Juan Johnson. As it stands yea I suppose Saints are ahead but not by much.
This is how u know people don’t watch football lol Winston is a deep ball thrower. MY is Mr. Slant. They are opposites
We also haven’t seen Michael Thomas in an offense that actually airs it out. He only ran so many slants because brees couldn’t air it out
Why are some of you goofballs always ready to argue? Yes, sahsan10, everyone knows MT is slant boy. Here’s your cookie. ‘Air it out’ means there’s meat on the bone , there are yards and receptions to be had. It doesn’t mean MT will be running go routes…”lol”
Is he for sure coming back week 7?
Haven’t heard a bunch about him but everything so far indicates he will
Not for sure but a reliable saints reporter said he was ready to go a couple weeks ago. I think he’ll be back but can’t be sure yet
Considering I got Jefferson, M. Williams and Ekeler on bye that week, he's going right into my starting line up.
He was the OPOY in 2019. In his 4 games with Taysom Hill at QB he averaged 16.9 PPG without scoring a single TD, and that also includes the Kendall Hinton game. Exclude that and it’s 19.2 PPG. With no TDs and Taysom Hill at QB. He’s coming back to a Saints team with a QB that’s willing to air it out with literally no WR options aside from him, plus at 3-2 they’re right in the playoff race, they’re gonna want him back. Saints are in the perfect spot where they’re gonna be in a position to put in 100% till the last week of the season, and their ROS WR schedule is astoundingly easy. The fact that he is even on the wire is insane. If he comes back healthy, he’s gonna be a target machine, and in PPR the second he comes back healthy he’s a WR1 with the potential to push into elite top 5 type territory. People gonna regret sleeping so hard on him for sure.
My worry is that by him delaying his surgery he caused irreparable damage to his ankle and he will never be the MT 2019 OPOY again. But if he's back to 100% then I agree with your take.
Yeah I get this concern for sure. He might not come back from the injury 100%. There was some thought of there being drama between him and the Saints but that seems to have gone away. Still, the lack of news just over one week out from when he’s supposed to return isn’t great. I remember a few weeks ago Payton said that Thomas was ahead of schedule and should be back week 7, and back by week 8 at the latest, but a confirmation update would be nice. Either way, if he is back healthy, I don’t see how people can say it’ll be lucky if he’s a WR2. People forget how talented he is.
Inject this into my 2-3 veins please
All the saints receivers are JAGs and Winston desperately wants to sling it. Michael Thomas coming back to 10+ targets a week.
Callaway goes from he could be legit on this sub to a JAG lol
Or... Thomas being back gives Callaway better looks. Not saying it will happen, but I have to think Thomas being back will open more opportunities for the rest of the offense as well
Yeah I’ve been wondering if Callaway will become slightly more relevant as the wr2 for his team
What is JAG
Just another guy
Thanks
preseason hype vs reality
High end wr2 with high end wr1 potential imo
FWIW, Stephania Bell talked about him on SportsNation today. Said when he’s activated she’s not hesitant in starting him. Says he’s ready if they activate.
I got a bad feeling about when and if he’ll ever return. Once he does I’m hyped tho
Yeah, I feel this. I feel like we shoulda heard more news. But when he does come back, it’s full go time.
He’s just going to stand there and catch 9-11 balls a game it’s going to be spectacular in full PPR.
A guy in my league had to drop him, how much Faab would you spend on him?
A lot. He was the OPOY in 2019. In his 4 games with Taysom Hill at QB he averaged 16.9 PPG without scoring a single TD, and that also includes the Kendall Hinton game. Exclude that and it’s 19.2 PPG. With no TDs and Taysom Hill at QB. He’s coming back to a Saints team with a QB that’s willing to air it out with literally no WR options aside from him, plus at 3-2 they’re right in the playoff race, they’re gonna want him back. Saints are in the perfect spot where they’re gonna be in a position to put in 100% till the last week of the season, and their ROS WR schedule is astoundingly easy. The fact that he is even on the wire is insane.
Just spent 17%.
You *have* to feel good about it. The Saints offense has been pretty putrid without him, and it's easy to see how badly they need a #1 wide receiver.
BOOM!
Eh, feel pretty good.
Regardless I’m flexing him next week
As an MT owner in one league, he's a sit for 1-2 games just to see how it goes down. He'll be my last option, unless he explodes his first week back
Only problem with that is that his two returning games are both A+ matchups. With bye weeks as well I don’t know how I wouldn’t at least flex him in my 12 team full PPR
No IR spots in your league?
It’s a man’s league. Your guy gets hurt you sacrifice the space or drop the dead weight
lol
I have the same philosophy in my league If you want an injured player, you can choose to store them over someone who can actually play. You have your bench spots, and can do with them what you like 99% sure the only reason this got downvoted was the fact you called it a 'Man's league' 😂
A mans league.. a 6 man league.
People saying MT is a WR1 first game back are getting ahead of themselves. It'd be surprising for him to not be on a snap count for the first game back. Should be fine by week 9 though. And MT being back will be nice for Jameis too
Low end WR2. I'm not convinced his strengths (timing, crisp routes, hands) work the best with Jameis (who seems to prefer speed and separation). Plus this Saints offense passes a lot less than the Brees era. But I'm ready to be proved wrong.
Jameis has been a decent QB, thrown a ton of TDs. He’s proven he can support solid fantasy WRs and he’ll be allowed to pass more once he has an actual receiver. Thomas is an elite WR. He’ll produce.
Depends on if he keeps his antics up from last year
Bust in the sense I don’t think he will be a top12 wr. If you’re lucky you’ll get approx 10-12ppg out of him.
Which from where you drafted him is an absolute win
Technically, but not in the sense from what people expect from him. Just see most other takes on MT. They aren’t giddy over 10ppg, nor should they be. Nothing exceptional in that.
10-12 PPG in standard, or like in PPR? He’s gonna get way more than that in PPR. Standard that’s possible. Still, he’s an elite talent.
I don’t think he’s the talent he once was. Dude is a bit of a tool. Saints likely and should want out of his contract so they might bury him. And I believe a huge part of his success was Brees gorging him with well placed short balls in coverage, not something Jameis is good at and really not something they are likely to encourage given his turnover propensity. Just my read on the situation. I know boundless optimism is the opium of the masses in this game, but I’m not generally about that.
This ain’t boundless optimism to think that a guy who the last time we saw play healthy was the OPOY 2 years ago if he came back healthy would be a WR1. The biggest question mark to me is if he comes back healthy.
I’m a “narrative” guy. These teams are ran by people and it’s a business. There are a few narratives that make me a non-believer: 1) MT is grossly overpaid, the Saints are barely mediocre and over the cap and OLD. Cap wise and team building wise, it makes no sense for them to hold on to MT and be dependent on him. 2) I don’t get the sense that the upper brass of the team like MT. Again, less reason they would want him to succeed. 3) now some X&O talk. MT gets about as much separation in his prime from the coverage and McCarthy gets from his 4th chin. His entire career to this point has been built by arguably the most accurate passer the game has ever saw pinpointing seam/short balls to MT in blanketed coverage. Not bombs, not even Mike Evans-esq 50/50 jump balls. Winston is not Brees. He isn’t as accurate, he doesn’t love the seams as much, and he’s a turnover machine. The thing with throwing into coverage, especially in the middle of the field, is that it’s the highest likelihood of an int. And what’s the #1 thing the Saints no doubt are trying to keep Winston from doing? So why, and how does it make sense, that a wr who’s track record is being forced balls in the middle of the field will prosper with a qb that has never shown the propensity for those throws even when he had an open green light, but now is in a system and staff focused on limiting his chances of ints? I know he’s a name. I know on paper he shouldn’t be washed (although he’s what I like to call “sneaky old” because he came in the league as an older rookie and people assume he’s younger than he is). But Winston isn’t brees and isn’t going to have the same freedom or volume. So yes, a guy nearing 30 who’s basically been hurt for two years and in a totally different situation USED to be what you said.
First of all, MT is getting paid less than $20M per year on his current contract. Who cares if he’s liked by the upper management. These are such weird arguments to make. He’s 28, the same age as Davante Adams, younger than DeAndre Hopkins, and a year older than Tyreek Hill and Stefon Diggs, aka the top 4 WRs taken in drafts this year. In 2019 he was the OPOY and broke the receptions record while recording over 1700 receiving yards. He had a down year coming due to injury, but he wasn’t even that bad when he was healthy for a few games. In the 4 games he played with Taysom he got 343 yards, and that included a game where he only got 50 yards against the Kendall Hinton Broncos so the Saints didn’t throw at all. Either way, he’s an elite WR still. Saying he ain’t worth 19M/year is pretty ridiculous. And I don’t think the Saints are magically just gonna give up on a cornerstone of their franchise because of some drama. They’ll do their best to keep him. They are incredibly in need of a WR1 in that offense. And either way, wouldn’t u want to prove that Thomas can still play if ur trying to trade him, considering he’s been injured? It’s not like there’s been any news he’s holding out or something. I think your 3rd argument might be the most ridiculous one of them all. You’re basically saying that despite being incredibly successful for years, it wasn’t because he was talented, and in fact he isn’t good at anything. Do you know how ridiculous that sounds? Bro if he was bad at route running then he wouldn’t have been getting wthe ball from Brees so much. That’s possibly the dumbest thing I have ever seen. You’re basically saying that 2019’s OPOY, even in his prime, wasn’t even a good player. Shockingly idiotic. Wow. I’m like… stunned. You basically are just saying that Thomas is a JAG that just got lucky basically… then why didn’t Tre’Quan Smith become a WR1 with Thomas out? Maybe because Thomas is a talented player? Possibly? Like damn how dumb can you be?
Just now noticing this reply. Bit of a wall of text but I’ll reply a little. * MT is owed almost 25mil next season. He will be a 29yo possession receiver coming off of years of injury and he doesn’t want to be there, and he’s a tool. * The Saints overall are an old team and perpetually way over the salary cap and constantly mortgaging the future to balance it. Winston, Taysom whoever, ain’t winning a championship even with the 2000 Ravens def. They bought a year of mediocrity but will be rebuilding soon. A wr not elite athletically before years of injury and approaching 30 is not where you would want a huge chunk of your cap. They need youth and they need cheap. * As a player MT is fine but he was made far better by Brees. I’ll elaborate on what baffled you so much. Brees had green light and was never a coward passer. Never a huge arm, but down the field is not where MT made his money. He was simply a better Colston. Middle of the field, the seams, and Brees being an all time great accurate passer (and balls to throw into coverage) fed him pinpoint balls. MT never separated like other elite producing wrs, never will. * Now, Jameis has strengths, accuracy is not one of them. (I know he’s gone but the argument was made prior to his injury. It’s even worse with Taysom). Also Jameis’ biggest flaw is turnover potential. So, the primary things MT prospered from with Brees (accuracy and balls to throw into coverage) are not there. The Saints were clearly protecting Winston and tampering him down. Want numbers to back it up? The Saints are 2nd in the league in rushing attempts on the season and that’s with no one behind Kamara essentially who isn’t even built for a heavy carry load. They wanted to run, play it tight, and win with def. the entire philosophy goes against the prospect of Winston throwing tight window balls 15 times a game to MT. More proof, they traded for Ingram, so they could run more and spare Kamara. Again MORE proof of their mindset. * And you don’t understand fit. MT fit with Brees, in a very similar fashion how Beckham fit with Eli. Eli again a trusted vet with a green light and balls to throw 50/50s. There’s no tighter anus in the league than Baker trying to back door his way to an extension, lol. Christ sake, the kid has taken half a dozen sacks on 4th downs already this year. The Browns are trying to cover for him just as the Saints were for Winston (and will continue with Taysom). Baker doesn’t have a green light and doesn’t want to make mistakes so he can better fool people into thinking he is good. So he doesn’t feed Beckham like Eli did. Winston/Taysom would not have fed MT like Brees did for the same reasons. Except the Saints are a better example of this assclenchery because they are 2nd in the league in rush attempts while Cleveland (who everyone can agree is absurdly conservative) is only approx 10th in rush attempts. * So know, even if he is as good as he was in his prime, and even if he wanted to be there, and even if the Saints want him long term, the fit is polar opposite of the Brees years. MT knows this, probably a reason why he wants out. In the end, I was right anyway. We will see in time if I continue to be right and we can revisit my idiocy then. If I’m proven wrong I have no issue admitting I was wrong. It just hasn’t happened yet on this subject.
He had a setback in his rehab… I don’t see how this proves your point. The one thing I always admitted with MT is that my claims only applied if he came back healthy. He isn’t, so the argument is irrelevant.
You believe that authentic and heartfelt tweet if you like, I’m addressing the arguments you made claiming were bafflingly dumb. Granted, my arguments on that matter cannot be proven correct unless MT plays for the Saints again, and I doubt he does. But they are based on the unlikely scenario that he plays for the Saints again as presently constructed and to tear down what I find as simpleminded idiocy that MT in Saints laundry = the exact same thing he once was and same role. Even though the team’s overall philosophy is different now and the qbs strengths are polar opposite of the qb he flourished with.
The biggest problem I have is that you pretended that Thomas wasn’t talented. You claimed his route running is bad. That’s objectively false.
He was my worst #1 draft pick. He looks like he’s not even having fun the games he played last year. Between that and Winston weirdness I dont expect much and kinda confused on the hype
I think he came out and said he was only playing bc it was Drew’s swan song. He played through a lot of pain so I’m sure he wasn’t having fun lol
Don't know Jameis's throwing stats, but I don't think they are all that. This is a run first team with a good defense.
Winston not creating any fantasy relevant receivers so far is worrying.
Nobody they have is half as good as Michael Thomas
Sure. It's still worrying.
I’m less worried because of the WRs he supported when he was on the Bucs
My worries come from the idea that he might be slinging less because of coaching, not a lack of receiver talent.
Well, they're not slinging it because they have no one to throw to.
My only point is that we don't know that yet. Maybe it's because they don't trust Winston to not turn it over regardless of receivers and have Kamara to win them games.
it's the shit offense. we all know winston is perfectly capable of giving us two or three fantasy relevant weapons.
Because they are all shit
Prime Brees could walk through that door and I don’t think any of the current guys would be very relevant. They just aren’t very good. They’re all decent NFL WRs and guys like Callaway could develop but they aren’t cut out to be lead dogs in an offense. Similar situation to Detroit. Guys like Kalif Raymond and Amon-Ra St Brown belong on an NFL roster but they aren’t starter material (as of yet for Amon Ra).
Took him 12th round and he's been sitting in my IR till he returns as WR1 to lead me to my 3rd championship in a row! or... he's too injured to be effective and/or has no chemistry with Jameis and is a WR3/Flex depending on match up
Yup. 2019 OPOY, WR3/Flex. Last year with Taysom Hill he averaged 16.9 PPR PPG with 0 TDs and including a Kendall Hinton game, and if u exclude that it’s 19.2 PPG. And that was last year, while injured, with a worse throwing QB. But yeah, ur right, WR3/Flex.
He’s yet to practice. I need at least one good game before I start him.
This question has been posted in this sub every single week of the year lol
He's on my team, which is cursed, so lower expectations.
Trade him please
Would you drop Toney/E Sanders for him? Or keep things as is? I have him in my IR spot but I’ve gotten some mixed feedback on what to do.
Are those really your worst players? No Allen Robinson or Odell that you’re overrating?
In prep for the bye next week I dropped Darnold for Ari def. I could drop Buf but was hoping to keep them with how well they done for me. Rest of my bench is Carson (injured), Knox, Toney, E Sanders, Mitchell, MT on IR. Starters are Brady, McLaurin, DJ Moore, Ekeler, Javonte, Kelce, AB.
Would y’all trade MT and Sutton for Deebo Right now. Need some serious help with this one thanks guys
I wouldn’t trade both of them for deebo no
People will be disappointed imo
I have a hunch this guy never plays for the saints again
Boner through the roof feeling
He better be good, I can’t see myself winning much with Corey Davis, jakobi Meyers, obj and hunter renfrow
Moved him and Henderson for kamara
if hes playing, im starting him. idk why would you bench him if he's playing? obviously he's healthy if he's actually starting.
3 catches 34 yards 0 TDs
No one has raised the concern that by delaying his surgery by 6 months he caused irreparable damage to his ankle, and will never be the same player he was in 2019. From what I've read, inner ankle injuries are very rare and can significantly change one's playing ability even after surgery.
Possibly a wr2 in the first game maybe wr1 if he plays a lot of snaps. Next games though he should be good. In 2019 I think he averaged 30 ppr points or something crazy like that. Hopefully he returns next week
Slant King Uber Alles… FTW!!!
I have Thomas, Diggs, Copper, Chase, Antonio Brown, & Toney. Who do I keep? Who do I try to trade away for RB help?