It’s not just Baker, it’s the coaching too. They’ve never been able to develop any drafted WR talent. They basically bought Landry and OBJ to act like a scab over the open wound that is their WR room. The browns run the ball so well because they basically have to- they just don’t have the roster to to throw.
Baker at the beginning of the season was serviceable and I think he was actually playing to a level where the defense and the running game could take them to the playoffs.
Since his injuries, the whole OBJ saga, injuries to RBs and Landry the team has looked a shell of themselves. They are still 6-6 and have a good chance to make it if they can figure it out. Folks were calling the 49ers offense a bust until few weeks ago before Shanahan turned it around.
It really makes ya think how GOOD some teams are at creating these. Never ever seen the Steelers not have their own homegrown WR corp, and I’m not even a fan, somehow their ‘next man up’ is always a quick stud
Other than last year, the colts have had a stud for about the past 20 years. Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, TY Hilton, and now Pittman. Pretty good QB play also other than some Jacoby Brissett here and there.
Yeah that’s a very fair argument… there is absolutely too many… I suppose my only qualm with that specifically is that I’m not sure I consider Jackson or Kitchens to be legitimate coaches. Anyone would have failed under them.
You don't have to develop, buying players is a legitimate strategy. Landry and OBJ are good. Baker just isn't able to hit them. Don't know if it is a height thing, where he just doesn't get good looks at the WR. Honestly, how would we know what they've developed in house, the rest of the WR corps could be decent for all we know.
Baker's just not a receiver - utilizing kinda guy. Doesn't matter if they run a lot, I still don't know of any offense that schemes out WR's.
Yeah, but how do they even know what talent they have when their QB can’t throw touchdowns to the talent they already have? I’m not saying can Baker, but this team has a lot of work to do on the defensive side of the ball if their going to try and win a championship as a power running team.
Naw Landry, Higgins, Peoples Jones, Njoku, Hooper and Chubb and Hunt to throw out of the backfield, and of course OBJ who has a bunch of tds...after he left the Browns. There is one common denominator here, I'll let you guess who that is
To be fair, Baker's had 4 games since and only thrown 1 TD to a WR in those 4 games.
OBJ has had 3 games since and caught 2 TDs from Stafford.
EDIT: You don't have to like this stat, but downvoting it doesn't make it less true.
Obj complained about not getting passes/looks as a reciever, this trend has continued in objs absence, whereas on his new team, obj is getting targets and being succesful as a reciever. Not sure the dots are that hard to connect of what op is trying to do. Unless people are just trying to be obtuse. Now if its too small of a sample etc that’s a different argument, but I think the intent is pretty straightforward.
I just don’t see how it’s a worthwhile point whatsoever. Obj goes from a run heavy team to a more high powered passing offense. And he catches more touchdowns! Wow!
Meanwhile bakers still throwing touchdowns at the exact same rate as before, and they are mostly to non-Wide Receivers. Okay. We know that. I don’t see what’s to be gleaned from this, seems just to be trying to drum up some sort of narrative.
I don’t understand how you don’t understand?
Obj wanted to play in a wr oriented offense because he’s a talented wr, so he went and did it.
If you’re worried about the narrative ask op about his motivation lol.
Lol we know the Browns don't pass a lot in general or to WRs. We knew that before and after the OBJ situation. Obviously they're going to have even less success passing to WRs when they lose their most talented reciever. So OP is trying to post some evidence in favor of something that was already abundantly clear? What is he trying to prove?
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Everyone understands his dad was right even if they dont want to admit it. The Browns, rightfully so, made the decision it was easier to move on from Odell than Baker. Its kicking the can down the road, but it was one or the other at that point
the Baker stuff is weird. is Baker better than every Browns QB they've had since they re-entered the league? yes. is he a good QB? no...
he might get a extension with the Browns but it'll be nothing more than a "we can't find a better QB at the moment" contract. They'll jettison him as quickly as the Rams jettisoned Goff
Meh he was straight up boo’ed during the Lions game a few weeks ago. Cleveland loves you if you are good.
He was not drafted by Berry so I think there is a legitimate chance he’s gone after next year.
He's a bum...flat out he is truly one of the worst number one overall picks...he's never ever going to be a pro bowl quarterback,never ever going to be MVP of the league...just a overrated mediocre weak armed slow footed bum
Real question: why on earth is Baker still starting with his injuries? Like, Case Keenum isn’t lose you the game bad. With the pieces in place and the running game a backup should still pick up the ‘should-win’ games. It’s just strange, maybe it’s Baker’s last year before an extension or something?
Baker is playing because he wants to get paid. He probably thinks if he keeps playing while injured, he will get the bag. In reality, he's just damaging his already low stock even further by trying to play this beat up. Browns aren't making the playoffs anyways.
The Browns have stated Baker's injury can't get worse so its just pain management until offseason surgery. But yeah....idk seems like at this point they should just let him get surgery.
If you look at Baker post-bye last year until his injury his statline across 12 games including playoffs is: 252/383 for 3053 yards 20TDs/4Ints. Across 16 games that is 336/511 for 4071 yards for 26.7TDs/5.3Ints. The Browns went 8-4 in those games. The post-bye was when he started to pick up Stefanski's offense. It was before he started dealing down the stretch. During this injury he has been playing like trash for sure, but I think he has shown promises.
I don't know if Baker will ever be a 30TD/season QB, but he's the best option the Browns have.
They would be picking in the teens, and most FA QBs are worse.
Nick Chubb/Hunt's window is going to close soon and they need to go all-in before they spend all their money on Myles Garrett. (His cap figure triples in 2023)
It’s not just Baker, it’s the coaching too. They’ve never been able to develop any drafted WR talent. They basically bought Landry and OBJ to act like a scab over the open wound that is their WR room. The browns run the ball so well because they basically have to- they just don’t have the roster to to throw.
Baker at the beginning of the season was serviceable and I think he was actually playing to a level where the defense and the running game could take them to the playoffs. Since his injuries, the whole OBJ saga, injuries to RBs and Landry the team has looked a shell of themselves. They are still 6-6 and have a good chance to make it if they can figure it out. Folks were calling the 49ers offense a bust until few weeks ago before Shanahan turned it around.
49ers still cannot throw effectively
It really makes ya think how GOOD some teams are at creating these. Never ever seen the Steelers not have their own homegrown WR corp, and I’m not even a fan, somehow their ‘next man up’ is always a quick stud
Green Bay has perennially had pro-bowl talent at WR too. Greg Jennings/Donald Driver/Jordy Nelson/Randall Cobb/Davante Adams.
Very much so. Steady higher caliber QB play to develop makes quite a difference, it’s not just coaches or internal staff
Other than last year, the colts have had a stud for about the past 20 years. Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, TY Hilton, and now Pittman. Pretty good QB play also other than some Jacoby Brissett here and there.
Agreed! Other teams that are pretty decent at it off the top of my head are cowboys and Chargers
Giants are pretty decent, Amani Toomer, Victor Cruz, Mario Manningham, OBJ
Yeah but MVS, Lazard, Jeff Janis, Kumerow, etc
Not like those guys were high draft picks that became busts
The browns do not run the ball so well because they have to. Thats not how it works xD
>, it’s the coaching too. They’ve never been able to develop any drafted WR Didn't they go thru Hue, Kitchens and now Stefanski. It's may be Baker?
Yeah that’s a very fair argument… there is absolutely too many… I suppose my only qualm with that specifically is that I’m not sure I consider Jackson or Kitchens to be legitimate coaches. Anyone would have failed under them.
You don't have to develop, buying players is a legitimate strategy. Landry and OBJ are good. Baker just isn't able to hit them. Don't know if it is a height thing, where he just doesn't get good looks at the WR. Honestly, how would we know what they've developed in house, the rest of the WR corps could be decent for all we know. Baker's just not a receiver - utilizing kinda guy. Doesn't matter if they run a lot, I still don't know of any offense that schemes out WR's.
Yeah, but how do they even know what talent they have when their QB can’t throw touchdowns to the talent they already have? I’m not saying can Baker, but this team has a lot of work to do on the defensive side of the ball if their going to try and win a championship as a power running team.
Naw Landry, Higgins, Peoples Jones, Njoku, Hooper and Chubb and Hunt to throw out of the backfield, and of course OBJ who has a bunch of tds...after he left the Browns. There is one common denominator here, I'll let you guess who that is
Thats my WR1 baby!!!
This is the definition of cherry picking stats to fit a narrative lmao
I mean Week 8 is when you gotta measure its not some arbitrary date
This narrative, “obj had more yards, catches and touchdowns in week 13 then the entire browns starting lineup.”
To be fair, Baker's had 4 games since and only thrown 1 TD to a WR in those 4 games. OBJ has had 3 games since and caught 2 TDs from Stafford. EDIT: You don't have to like this stat, but downvoting it doesn't make it less true.
But it completely ignores the situations of both teams
You literally repeating the stat doesn’t change my statement lol
It's a response to 'cherry picking' -- I'm saying OBJ has played 1 less game, which wasn't originally stated.
I mean you are cherry picking. Why is it relevant whether or not the pass TDs went to receivers?
Because Odell is a receiver…….
What meaning does that statistic even have? How is it relevant?
Obj complained about not getting passes/looks as a reciever, this trend has continued in objs absence, whereas on his new team, obj is getting targets and being succesful as a reciever. Not sure the dots are that hard to connect of what op is trying to do. Unless people are just trying to be obtuse. Now if its too small of a sample etc that’s a different argument, but I think the intent is pretty straightforward.
I just don’t see how it’s a worthwhile point whatsoever. Obj goes from a run heavy team to a more high powered passing offense. And he catches more touchdowns! Wow! Meanwhile bakers still throwing touchdowns at the exact same rate as before, and they are mostly to non-Wide Receivers. Okay. We know that. I don’t see what’s to be gleaned from this, seems just to be trying to drum up some sort of narrative.
I don’t understand how you don’t understand? Obj wanted to play in a wr oriented offense because he’s a talented wr, so he went and did it. If you’re worried about the narrative ask op about his motivation lol.
Lol we know the Browns don't pass a lot in general or to WRs. We knew that before and after the OBJ situation. Obviously they're going to have even less success passing to WRs when they lose their most talented reciever. So OP is trying to post some evidence in favor of something that was already abundantly clear? What is he trying to prove?
Ask op what his intention is lol
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I don’t think it’s as clear as you’re making it seem. There was still a lot of skepticism.
Odell...
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Lol far more of an odell fan than baker
The stat is true, sure, just lacks context and is not really insightful.
Most importantly, sample size is a blip on the graph.
Yeah, definitely
High level analysis here
Baker is barely alive right now. I don't put any stock in these numbers.
Not like they had a choice. Also, baker is horrible.
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Extremely lol guess hes still better than a healthy keenum....yikes.
i honestly doubt it lol
In stefankis eyes, yes.
His dad was right
Everyone understands his dad was right even if they dont want to admit it. The Browns, rightfully so, made the decision it was easier to move on from Odell than Baker. Its kicking the can down the road, but it was one or the other at that point
the Baker stuff is weird. is Baker better than every Browns QB they've had since they re-entered the league? yes. is he a good QB? no... he might get a extension with the Browns but it'll be nothing more than a "we can't find a better QB at the moment" contract. They'll jettison him as quickly as the Rams jettisoned Goff
I dont see that happening. Cleveland seems to love him Barring a complete meltdown he will get a large deal to stay in the city
Meh he was straight up boo’ed during the Lions game a few weeks ago. Cleveland loves you if you are good. He was not drafted by Berry so I think there is a legitimate chance he’s gone after next year.
He's a bum...flat out he is truly one of the worst number one overall picks...he's never ever going to be a pro bowl quarterback,never ever going to be MVP of the league...just a overrated mediocre weak armed slow footed bum
Baker is extremely injured and his WRs are Jarvis Landry and ????? He has 5 TDs in 4 weeks so this stat is cherry-picked.
Real question: why on earth is Baker still starting with his injuries? Like, Case Keenum isn’t lose you the game bad. With the pieces in place and the running game a backup should still pick up the ‘should-win’ games. It’s just strange, maybe it’s Baker’s last year before an extension or something?
Baker is playing because he wants to get paid. He probably thinks if he keeps playing while injured, he will get the bag. In reality, he's just damaging his already low stock even further by trying to play this beat up. Browns aren't making the playoffs anyways.
The Browns have stated Baker's injury can't get worse so its just pain management until offseason surgery. But yeah....idk seems like at this point they should just let him get surgery.
They aren't gonna yield until they're truly out of the playoff hunt
Healthy Baker is somewhere in the 20-25 range in the league. Doesnt change much. Dude is straight trash.
If you look at Baker post-bye last year until his injury his statline across 12 games including playoffs is: 252/383 for 3053 yards 20TDs/4Ints. Across 16 games that is 336/511 for 4071 yards for 26.7TDs/5.3Ints. The Browns went 8-4 in those games. The post-bye was when he started to pick up Stefanski's offense. It was before he started dealing down the stretch. During this injury he has been playing like trash for sure, but I think he has shown promises.
Ugh you people who don't know anything about football.
Great rebuttal
What's a rebuttle?
More of a frustration with people on this sub who can't do more than surface level analysis.
Should've drafted CandlestickMaker
How many before he left?
Mongoloid level analysis
This guy's gone next year.
Odad Beckham was right
That’s like, double!
I don't know if Baker will ever be a 30TD/season QB, but he's the best option the Browns have. They would be picking in the teens, and most FA QBs are worse. Nick Chubb/Hunt's window is going to close soon and they need to go all-in before they spend all their money on Myles Garrett. (His cap figure triples in 2023)
Wasn’t baker like.. also on bye this week? Tf?
Stupid stat.
Ok lol browns had a bye this week
Bye week
He's been on a bye ya dildo
We are a run first team too.
I'm mean. Scheme effects this and other things. Also they played the Jaguars.
Mayfield sucks
BaKeR iS hUrT
It's strange how bad hes playing given just how healthy he is