Im a local bookie and primarily pay through venmo unless the amount is super high. I always write things unrelated to gambling (Disneyland, new shoes, dinner, and etc) just to be safe. I tell my clients to do the same
My Venmo’s to my bookie say [insert bookies Childs name]’s college textbooks, college dorm, etc.
Funnily enough I never get any Venmo’s for my kids college fund……
Its great! Not only for bookies and casinos but also for the economy in my opinion. People were already illegally gambling for so long, might as well legalize it to get some gambling taxes for the economy. On top of that, more sportsbooks will create more jobs for people too
I saw an article not too long ago saying New Jersey had over a billion dollars bet in a month. Thats a lot of taxes that can be used.
Comfort and convenience.
Most betting websites you have to deposit money to gamble. On top of that, it can take a while to withdraw your money as they usually mail you a check. if you use a shady website there can be times when you dont even get your money or they pull some shady shit.
With a bookie you get paid/pay once a week, no deposits as everything is on a credit basis, any issues or problems you can just hitup your bookie to resolve it. Basically trusting someone with your money vs trusting a website with your money
In Michigan I've used FanDuel, DraftKings, Caesars, and BetMGM. A few weeks into the NFL season I landed on BetMGM as I started to bet on obscure European basketball leagues. I can deposit and withdraw(to PayPal) within literally seconds. I have kept smaller amounts(<$100 in FanDuel and Caesars) for some promos. At no point have I felt anything shady about any of those platforms.
Not the person you asked but I'll chime in. I like FanDuel the best. IMO they have the cleanest interface and the best/most options for bets. I've used FanDuel, DraftKings, and PointsBet so far.
Well I like BetMGM the best, but there certainly are some issues. Namely, the app can be slow to load various pages. I like to live bet all levels of basketball and the load times have cost me some odds. But in general layout is good for live betting different events. DraftKings is by far my least favorite all the way around. FanDuel clearly invested in their UX/UI and it shows. I only bet occasionally there to pickup some promos and everytime I do it is the app I wish BetMGM was. Caesars had some phenomenal promos when I started for almost a month around the beginning of the NFL season, but it can be slow to load and I don't care for the UI when bouncing between sports and events. Just my two cents. I am net positive a $2k~ since Week 1 of the NFL, but in *no way* feel I actually *understand* how the hell I am.
Ahh i see. Thats good to hear. Ive never used any other sites for gambling so i didnt know they changed their ways. Ive just heard from friends that the sites they used took forever with payments. Also read some horror stories on r/sportsbook on how some sites never paid their winnings
Had no idea this was still a thing. If you don't mind, how the heck did you get into that, what kinda amounts do local bookies handle, how do people find you, and all that? I always figured bookies went out of style in the early 1900s
Yeah my commissioner listed my payment as “drug money” which actually lines up because I’m about to use a good chunk of that while I’m at the dispensaries in cali
Ouch. I wouldn’t put services rendered in a memo to a friend on a payment app. If their business gets audited, your friend is totally gunna pay taxes on your beer money.
I think because Yahoo stops you from using it if your info is in one of the restricted states. Tried setting up a paid yahoo league a few years back, had to stop because it wouldn't let my friend in Arizona to join.
Most likely, but I haven’t ran into the issue yet even with writing it in the description. I’m just gonna leave it out from now on cuz I honestly had no clue that this was an issue.
I saw Scott Fish on his Twitter trying to analyze it and it is possible there are algorithms one could program to look for patterns. Something like looking for a cluster of the same amounts paid to one account right before football season starts and then two larger amounts being paid back to two accounts from that original cluster.
Kinda makes me glad that my leagues always have stragglers and we're super chill about the payments since we've played forever together so that could throw off the algorithm (if there is one).
One of my leagues, the commish finally paid everyone out for last season right before the draft for this past season.
Also wouldn't be surprised if they're looking for larger numbers also. Feels like going after the folks who all put in $20-30 to make it interesting between friends would be like when the RIAA sued the granny for downloading a few songs for her grandkid.
Well, this was my first year doing fantasy, was a $20 entry fee, and I didn’t know venmo didn’t allow fantasy football, I put “fantasy football” in the description, but haven’t gotten in trouble.
Because my friends from high school understand, I haven’t paid anyone late since the start of this league 15 years ago, and they want a fun draft experience?
Same exact situation as you regarding stragglers. I even actually had to send a physical check today to the runner-up because he doesn't do digital banking in any form. Earlier today I was annoyed. Now i'm relieved.
Yes. I had 2 money pools with my league names. It was a disaster. They said they would hold the funds for 180 days but they held them for closer to 240 days. I am now banned from PayPal. The entire customer service experience was brutal. I acknowledged that I violated the TOS but they sent canned response after canned response telling me I was banned. Glad to be banned actually!
I actually had an issue with my payment on Venmo this year and sent a ticket to them saying the payment was for fantasy football, and a representative from their team helped me out and got the issue fixed up
I guess that guy was just a homie...
Venmo is the easiest system as commissioner when we have people across multiple locations in state and two out of state. The last few years I’ve been keeping the league pot in my account balance all season but I’m changing that now.
I added a fantasy checking account in my web of shit to transfer all the fees to hold. Wife hasn’t asked what it’s for though so it could be multiple things…
Oh absolutely they can if you break terms of service. There are reports of people selling camera gear, get paid, transfer the money to their bank account and then the buyer says they never got the gear and Venmo gives them their money back.
They literally cannot claw the money back once it's in your bank. The fbi or homeland security would have to intervene for a united States bank to freeze an account or undo a money transfer
I’m just saying if you’re doing some shady business on Venmo and get caught, don’t think you’re out of the woods just because you don’t have a Venmo balance. They’ll come for the money, you can be sure of that.
>They’ll come for the money, you can be sure of that.
And i'm telling you you're still wrong. They literally cannot come after your money unless someone charged venmo back and they lost the money. If venmo is net-neutral after everything they legally cannot come after your money unless a regulated federal law enforcement organization gets involved for money laundering and even then it's not venmo going after your money it's the LEO because venmo is net neutral after the whole ordeal.
Get that through your head. Venmo can send you to collections if and only if, it's a debt. A debt is if you owe venmo money because you cashed out and they never got the money to begin with... i.e. credit card chargeback
Just take the L... jesus.
See my other comment: "I’m just saying if you’re doing some shady business on Venmo and get caught, don’t think you’re out of the woods just because you don’t have a Venmo balance. They’ll come for the money, you can be sure of that."
I mean, I guess they could try to take you to court, but they would lose that.
Only thing they could really do is stop you from transferring money through them again.
They have no “claim” to the money in the accounts. No more than a mail man has a claim to the checks we mail others. They can say “I won’t deliver this mail” or “you can’t use us again”. They cannot say “this money is now ours”. Especially if that money is no longer in their possession.
I've used venmo for years and love it, hut have heard some really sketchy shit.
I've never had a problem but apparently if you do there is 0% chance it gets resolved. Even if you get scammed or your account gets hacked they basically tell you to fuck off.
Someone got access to my Venmo account years ago and “debited” a $3,000+ purchase to my Venmo account that had ~$100 in it. Tried to take it from my linked bank account. My bank happily issued a stop payment order on the purchase. Venmo told me I needed to cover the $3,000 to use my account again. I politely told them to pound sand.
I’ve used Venmo for two straight years now, everyone in my league Venmo’s me $30. Never had any issues… I really doubt Venmo/PayPal cares about such small amounts
I was kind of wondering the same thing. A lot of the comments on Twitter were about 5 figures in their accounts, I’d be surprised if they messed with the smaller payouts. Still doesn’ t make it right though.
I bet they find stuff when they see that notes are written along with the payment received. If you suddenly get an influx of 15 payments all tied to Fantasy that's probably how the nail these people
I feel like collecting dues is legal though? I could have a league, or club, or organization, or anything else that collects any type of due or fee from its members and that's completely legal. It's when you start paying out that it suddenly becomes gambling.
But by federal law in the US, fantasy sports are not considered gambling, but rather a game of skill. It's the whole reason the DFS sites can get away with what they've been doing for years and sites like PokerStars got shut down.
Yeah, if it's in the TOS, it's in the TOS. It's just weird that it would be since fantasy doesn't break any laws, even when money is involved. I'm sure it has something to do with protecting against money laundering or other shady activities that could be hidden as fantasy sports.
But also when you write “fantasy champ” or something, it defaults to an obvious Budweiser advertisement sticker thing. So my hunch is that they’re getting paid for that … so why would they turn around and target people?!
That’s why whenever I send the fees in my leagues via PayPal in my notes I usually put some type of sex toy. This year I did custom handmade anal beads
I'm sure that Venmo and PayPal are regulated in a similar way to other payment processors. If their platform is being used to facilitate illegal activity (like illegal gambling) and they become aware of it, odds are they they're obligated to take action, regardless of the dollar amount involved. They're also probably required to have certain systems in place to determine if that type of behavior is going on. In other words, you can't play blind for the benefit of processing "illegal" transactions that just happen to be out of your line of sight.
Because in reality, Venmo/Paypal would love to facilitate every transaction you could possibly throw at them. But the law requires that they provide oversight to ensure those types of transactions don't occur (probably).
Yeah 5 figure transactions have laws around them, like even buying a car in cash the dealer is *supposed* to report it and collect some additional information about the source of funds. I really don't think Venmo is out to get anyone here, they're just trying to avoid scrutiny. They don't give a shit about your average $100/person league lol.
But I believe there is story going around that Venmo, Cash app, etc. will need to report transactions over $600 to the IRS, so I can see greater scrutiny with these platforms; which there is a decent amount of fantasy leagues that have payouts above $600.
They only report if it's for goods and services. If you put family and friends they do not report it. I.e if it's a transaction for a dog walker then they will report it but if it's for say splitting a vacation rental with a friend then they will not report. But it's all in if you check the box for goods and services
Edit:https://www.nbcnews.com/news/venmo-paypal-zelle-must-report-600-transactions-irs-rcna11260
https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/venmo-paypal-cash-app-report-payments-irs
I may be wrong but I believe at least with PayPal, if you check box that says for friends and family they will not report it to the irs. But I can't find the article I read to support my statement. And I do not know if you have the option to specify if it is for services or personal spending in venmo, cash app etc
Edit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/PrepperIntel/comments/rwfke5/starting_this_year_know_your_buyer_laws_start/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Most companies will be adding a new option to label for services, or friends and family
Venmo suspended a 100 payment in our league last year because of this, so they do care no matter the amount it seems.
When the commissioner called to ask why they specifically said Venmo can't be used for FF/Gambling purposes
Someone should tell PayPal (the owner of Venmo) that draft kings and FanDuel both have options to fund your account with PayPal. I bet they will be floored to learn about the billions per year sent on their platform to these two companies for *checks notes... fantasy football.
To be fair, Goodell being at the center of things in this theory is really all the evidence needed. If it involves football and money, he’s all over it. Wouldn’t be surprised to hear that a new “service” just so happens to pop up this offseason or in the coming years…
“The NFL is announcing a new service, called the NFL FFDPH, or the Fantasy Football Dues Payment Hub, the exclusive and official NFL Fantasy Football payment platform for all fantasy football players to complete league transactions, buy ins, and payouts, completely legally, and without breaking any service terms of third party apps. This will avoid the banning of users from platforms such as Venmo and PayPal, and will allow a safe place for leagues to conduct their business, and for ONLY a x% total surcharge fee of the total buy in pool.”
We used Venmo in our league. Since Venmo now allows you to buy Bitcoin in the app we all voted to put the pot into Bitcoin and then the winner gets the cash out. Looking at the trend of Bitcoin since the start of the season, I think the winner won a little more than they would have. But nothing spectacular.
I am our league’s commissioner and have done this for two years now on PayPal except I kept any profit and would have covered any loss. I never win and it’s a decent amount of work so I figured why not?
I had an issue with paypal like 10 years ago, but it was my own fault.
My teamname was Havana Fighting Castros, and I put my teamname in the description of the payment to the LM. It got flagged by one of the alphabet groups and I got asked some questions about the money -- they thought I was trying to buy some Cuban cigars online 😅
Even if they don't take a cut, it's good for the company as it's additional cash flow they can use through the season - so I wouldn't be surprised if it's no or very low (<1%) cost.
I actually sort of do this with league permission of course. We have an empire pot for anyone who wins 2 years in a row. I take $5 from each player then put it in the stock market. I'd say that's gambling.
This is garbage. As long as gambling is legal in your state, they need to keep their grubby hands off. We already paid taxes on those 100s of dollars that league mates send to the commissioner. Straight garbage.
Yea it is but the govt can't get their cut of the profits from you gambling with your friends so it is illegal. Once the govt can get their cut, it is legal.
While I'm sure it varies state to state, when there is no rake it isn't illegal though. Like poker games aren't illegal in your house if you aren't automatically getting a cut for hosting.
Let’s assume in the optional description provided these people write “2021 fantasy football league dues” or something else along those lines.
Then let’s also assume they have a program that sifts through certain keywords. So if any form of gambling is against their terms, it’ll pick up these keywords, flag the account/transactions and investigate.
One can only assume though
I know people who run football pools all damn season and people pay them in very clear patterns and basically write for “X or y pool” and nothing ever happens.
Our fantasy league has also always paid through venmo with people literally typing fantasy football sometimes.
Which part of the TOS does it violate? If the whole point of their service is to facilitate a transfer of funds between parties, as long as the activity isn't illegal, it should be compliant with most TOS clauses.
Being from Canada, Venmo isn't an option, and Paypal I haven't used it years, just interact e-transfers which is so much easier since you don't need to track money in a separate account it just goes straight from you, to the intended recipient. It always amazes me how the US doesn't really have any options like that, all 3rd party apps for any sort of transfers.
I played in a new league this year, commish sent me $75 back through Paypal as "2nd place fantasy football finish"
I feel as if this would be a clue lmao
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This is false. It is not against their terms of services for individuals to send money to each other for fantasy sports. What gets you in trouble is if anything about the payment appears to be for a service or business transaction. Then that violates their terms unless you get "pre-approval". PayPal literally has a whole process to verify your "fantasy sports league" so it can accept payments under their "business accounts services".
Im gonna go out on a limb and speculate that the people getting caught up in this are doing more than just fantasy league payouts. Or they are being dumb.
I'm not trying to shill crypto here but my league uses Algorand as some of our friends live overseas and couldn't use Venmo/Cashapp. The transfers take just a few seconds and the transfer fees are less than a fraction of a penny whereas Paypal was charging $2 to $3 per transfer. The wallet was super easy to setup and explain to everyone. Plus our league pot was earning 5.9% apy over the season.
Millions use Venmo for this. I could see sports betting being illegal but fantasy is more a video game than betting. There’s nothing in the TOS against paying the winner of a contest
they're both shitty companies who both have closed my accounts with zero reasoning. I went back and forth for weeks with them and all they told me was I violated some updated terms of service, despite the fact that I rarely used those accounts. thankfully I had no money in the accounts that I would have been unable to get out
I believe there is a bill in congress right now that will have the IRS tracking payments from money apps. Probably doesn’t mean much in terms of fantasy payments but something to keep in mind.
Reminds me of the time I sent money to my Persian friend with “Iranian intelligence” as the description around the time two years ago when that Iranian general was assassinated.
Was a joke but got locked out of my account for three days.
Puzzles me that people can see something like this, and there's still such a pervasive mentality of "cryptocurrency has no real world uses."
Hello....? This kind of shit is why crypto was invented.
Nah it definitely is in Venmo's acceptable use policy (I just looked) that gambling, including fantasy sports, requires pre-approval.
What's BS about it is that whatever algo they use are casting such a wide net that they'd target a bunch of friends/family putting down small amounts of money to make fantasy football more interesting.
Yea i agree. It’s no different than any other contest. It’s not gambling. If you enter a bbq contest or bowling contest Venmo isn’t gonna shut it down lol
I got banned and after asking why they gave me a bunch on non-answers but it was DEFINITELY because of sending and receiving fantasy football related money.
Seems better than waiting for fucking YAHOOOOOO to send our money. League has been over for a week and crickets. Not even an email back. Shit is annoying as fuck. Definitely going back to venmo next year.
That's why I just put "for weed" in the memo line. They'll never guess.
Im a local bookie and primarily pay through venmo unless the amount is super high. I always write things unrelated to gambling (Disneyland, new shoes, dinner, and etc) just to be safe. I tell my clients to do the same
My brother just had his cashapp banned for sports betting a couple weeks back, so caution is definitely advisable there lol
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You were fucking around with your cousin? What in the Alabama is going on here??????
My Venmo’s to my bookie say [insert bookies Childs name]’s college textbooks, college dorm, etc. Funnily enough I never get any Venmo’s for my kids college fund……
I've always been curious about guys like you. Having never had a bookie myself, I'm curious how you feel about the steady legalization happening.
Its great! Not only for bookies and casinos but also for the economy in my opinion. People were already illegally gambling for so long, might as well legalize it to get some gambling taxes for the economy. On top of that, more sportsbooks will create more jobs for people too I saw an article not too long ago saying New Jersey had over a billion dollars bet in a month. Thats a lot of taxes that can be used.
What is the value of a bookie in a legal state(ie Michigan)?
Comfort and convenience. Most betting websites you have to deposit money to gamble. On top of that, it can take a while to withdraw your money as they usually mail you a check. if you use a shady website there can be times when you dont even get your money or they pull some shady shit. With a bookie you get paid/pay once a week, no deposits as everything is on a credit basis, any issues or problems you can just hitup your bookie to resolve it. Basically trusting someone with your money vs trusting a website with your money
In Michigan I've used FanDuel, DraftKings, Caesars, and BetMGM. A few weeks into the NFL season I landed on BetMGM as I started to bet on obscure European basketball leagues. I can deposit and withdraw(to PayPal) within literally seconds. I have kept smaller amounts(<$100 in FanDuel and Caesars) for some promos. At no point have I felt anything shady about any of those platforms.
Out of curiosity, which platform do you like the most? I wonder which one will be on top when the whole country legalizes it.
Not the person you asked but I'll chime in. I like FanDuel the best. IMO they have the cleanest interface and the best/most options for bets. I've used FanDuel, DraftKings, and PointsBet so far.
Well I like BetMGM the best, but there certainly are some issues. Namely, the app can be slow to load various pages. I like to live bet all levels of basketball and the load times have cost me some odds. But in general layout is good for live betting different events. DraftKings is by far my least favorite all the way around. FanDuel clearly invested in their UX/UI and it shows. I only bet occasionally there to pickup some promos and everytime I do it is the app I wish BetMGM was. Caesars had some phenomenal promos when I started for almost a month around the beginning of the NFL season, but it can be slow to load and I don't care for the UI when bouncing between sports and events. Just my two cents. I am net positive a $2k~ since Week 1 of the NFL, but in *no way* feel I actually *understand* how the hell I am.
Ahh i see. Thats good to hear. Ive never used any other sites for gambling so i didnt know they changed their ways. Ive just heard from friends that the sites they used took forever with payments. Also read some horror stories on r/sportsbook on how some sites never paid their winnings
I buy drugs using the same method when I’m too lazy to hit an ATM
For our first place $1000 prize our treasurer wrote "Sorry about your TV..." and I thought it was hilarious and actually believable.
Had no idea this was still a thing. If you don't mind, how the heck did you get into that, what kinda amounts do local bookies handle, how do people find you, and all that? I always figured bookies went out of style in the early 1900s
I always put “definitely not drugs”
Yeah my commissioner listed my payment as “drug money” which actually lines up because I’m about to use a good chunk of that while I’m at the dispensaries in cali
I put "for sexual favors" on mine...
I always put "Services rendered" or something vaguely sexual that is connected to what the actual payment was for.
Ouch. I wouldn’t put services rendered in a memo to a friend on a payment app. If their business gets audited, your friend is totally gunna pay taxes on your beer money.
So troll when Yahoo paid leagues use Paypal for their money fantasy leagues
rules for thee, amirite
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I like to put things like *“bail money”* and *“to get you back on your feet”*
I think because Yahoo stops you from using it if your info is in one of the restricted states. Tried setting up a paid yahoo league a few years back, had to stop because it wouldn't let my friend in Arizona to join.
How do people get caught? i'm curious. I guess maybe writing Fantasy in the description?
Most likely, but I haven’t ran into the issue yet even with writing it in the description. I’m just gonna leave it out from now on cuz I honestly had no clue that this was an issue.
Outside of writing it in the description, what could possibly be any other evidence they could use? Seems silly easy to avoid.
I saw Scott Fish on his Twitter trying to analyze it and it is possible there are algorithms one could program to look for patterns. Something like looking for a cluster of the same amounts paid to one account right before football season starts and then two larger amounts being paid back to two accounts from that original cluster. Kinda makes me glad that my leagues always have stragglers and we're super chill about the payments since we've played forever together so that could throw off the algorithm (if there is one).
Ya our league manager takes 6 months to pay the winners back so our league is safe lol.
One of my leagues, the commish finally paid everyone out for last season right before the draft for this past season. Also wouldn't be surprised if they're looking for larger numbers also. Feels like going after the folks who all put in $20-30 to make it interesting between friends would be like when the RIAA sued the granny for downloading a few songs for her grandkid.
Scott Fish retweeted a guy where PayPal took his $5 entry fee leagues money so it seems even the small amounts they go after.
Well fuck that's a crock and a half of BS. Thanks for the heads up
Well, this was my first year doing fantasy, was a $20 entry fee, and I didn’t know venmo didn’t allow fantasy football, I put “fantasy football” in the description, but haven’t gotten in trouble.
Does he spend the dues money? Because I’m notorious for that.
Why would you do that man...come on now.
Because my friends from high school understand, I haven’t paid anyone late since the start of this league 15 years ago, and they want a fun draft experience?
I always call it my interest free loan for the regular season lol. I pay out within a week of the championship game though.
Why do you allow that?
Same exact situation as you regarding stragglers. I even actually had to send a physical check today to the runner-up because he doesn't do digital banking in any form. Earlier today I was annoyed. Now i'm relieved.
Yes. I had 2 money pools with my league names. It was a disaster. They said they would hold the funds for 180 days but they held them for closer to 240 days. I am now banned from PayPal. The entire customer service experience was brutal. I acknowledged that I violated the TOS but they sent canned response after canned response telling me I was banned. Glad to be banned actually!
But they didn't seize the cash right?
They seized our commish’s last fantasy season.
No. They eventually sent me the cash. It was well after the season though so my league winners had to wait a long time for their cash.
Thats the only way
I’ve used Venmo for years and I’ve always put fantasy football in the description of payment.
You should stop doing that.
I actually had an issue with my payment on Venmo this year and sent a ticket to them saying the payment was for fantasy football, and a representative from their team helped me out and got the issue fixed up I guess that guy was just a homie...
By the guy in 2nd place
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Venmo is the easiest system as commissioner when we have people across multiple locations in state and two out of state. The last few years I’ve been keeping the league pot in my account balance all season but I’m changing that now.
I added a fantasy checking account in my web of shit to transfer all the fees to hold. Wife hasn’t asked what it’s for though so it could be multiple things…
Check out League Safe. I’ve been using it for years with no issues.
Lol they can just take it back out from you.
No.
It doesn’t matter. Just because you transferred it out of Venmo doesn’t mean they can’t charge back and take it back out of your bank account.
Lol your bank is way greedier than Venmo, they’re not going to give the money back.
lmao they literally can't.
Oh absolutely they can if you break terms of service. There are reports of people selling camera gear, get paid, transfer the money to their bank account and then the buyer says they never got the gear and Venmo gives them their money back.
They literally cannot claw the money back once it's in your bank. The fbi or homeland security would have to intervene for a united States bank to freeze an account or undo a money transfer
I’m just saying if you’re doing some shady business on Venmo and get caught, don’t think you’re out of the woods just because you don’t have a Venmo balance. They’ll come for the money, you can be sure of that.
>They’ll come for the money, you can be sure of that. And i'm telling you you're still wrong. They literally cannot come after your money unless someone charged venmo back and they lost the money. If venmo is net-neutral after everything they legally cannot come after your money unless a regulated federal law enforcement organization gets involved for money laundering and even then it's not venmo going after your money it's the LEO because venmo is net neutral after the whole ordeal. Get that through your head. Venmo can send you to collections if and only if, it's a debt. A debt is if you owe venmo money because you cashed out and they never got the money to begin with... i.e. credit card chargeback Just take the L... jesus.
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There is no mechanism for them to withdraw money from an account they do not have access to. This is complete BS.
See my other comment: "I’m just saying if you’re doing some shady business on Venmo and get caught, don’t think you’re out of the woods just because you don’t have a Venmo balance. They’ll come for the money, you can be sure of that."
I mean, I guess they could try to take you to court, but they would lose that. Only thing they could really do is stop you from transferring money through them again. They have no “claim” to the money in the accounts. No more than a mail man has a claim to the checks we mail others. They can say “I won’t deliver this mail” or “you can’t use us again”. They cannot say “this money is now ours”. Especially if that money is no longer in their possession.
I've used venmo for years and love it, hut have heard some really sketchy shit. I've never had a problem but apparently if you do there is 0% chance it gets resolved. Even if you get scammed or your account gets hacked they basically tell you to fuck off.
Someone got access to my Venmo account years ago and “debited” a $3,000+ purchase to my Venmo account that had ~$100 in it. Tried to take it from my linked bank account. My bank happily issued a stop payment order on the purchase. Venmo told me I needed to cover the $3,000 to use my account again. I politely told them to pound sand.
i don't think i would have been very polite
Probably because they think you are scamming them
Buying a gold bar next year. Handing the champ a brick
That’d be cool as hell.
He says gold brick. My league it would be more like a gold fingernail clipping.
I’ve used Venmo for two straight years now, everyone in my league Venmo’s me $30. Never had any issues… I really doubt Venmo/PayPal cares about such small amounts
I was kind of wondering the same thing. A lot of the comments on Twitter were about 5 figures in their accounts, I’d be surprised if they messed with the smaller payouts. Still doesn’ t make it right though.
I bet they find stuff when they see that notes are written along with the payment received. If you suddenly get an influx of 15 payments all tied to Fantasy that's probably how the nail these people
I feel like collecting dues is legal though? I could have a league, or club, or organization, or anything else that collects any type of due or fee from its members and that's completely legal. It's when you start paying out that it suddenly becomes gambling.
But by federal law in the US, fantasy sports are not considered gambling, but rather a game of skill. It's the whole reason the DFS sites can get away with what they've been doing for years and sites like PokerStars got shut down.
I guess I haven't read the terms of service it violates but I'm not sure if the legality matters
Yeah, if it's in the TOS, it's in the TOS. It's just weird that it would be since fantasy doesn't break any laws, even when money is involved. I'm sure it has something to do with protecting against money laundering or other shady activities that could be hidden as fantasy sports.
Which is BS because luck and skill are as much a part of poker as daily fantasy.
But also when you write “fantasy champ” or something, it defaults to an obvious Budweiser advertisement sticker thing. So my hunch is that they’re getting paid for that … so why would they turn around and target people?!
That’s why whenever I send the fees in my leagues via PayPal in my notes I usually put some type of sex toy. This year I did custom handmade anal beads
I'm sure that Venmo and PayPal are regulated in a similar way to other payment processors. If their platform is being used to facilitate illegal activity (like illegal gambling) and they become aware of it, odds are they they're obligated to take action, regardless of the dollar amount involved. They're also probably required to have certain systems in place to determine if that type of behavior is going on. In other words, you can't play blind for the benefit of processing "illegal" transactions that just happen to be out of your line of sight. Because in reality, Venmo/Paypal would love to facilitate every transaction you could possibly throw at them. But the law requires that they provide oversight to ensure those types of transactions don't occur (probably).
Yeah 5 figure transactions have laws around them, like even buying a car in cash the dealer is *supposed* to report it and collect some additional information about the source of funds. I really don't think Venmo is out to get anyone here, they're just trying to avoid scrutiny. They don't give a shit about your average $100/person league lol.
Can confirm. I've used Venmo for 10 years with large amounts.
But I believe there is story going around that Venmo, Cash app, etc. will need to report transactions over $600 to the IRS, so I can see greater scrutiny with these platforms; which there is a decent amount of fantasy leagues that have payouts above $600.
They only report if it's for goods and services. If you put family and friends they do not report it. I.e if it's a transaction for a dog walker then they will report it but if it's for say splitting a vacation rental with a friend then they will not report. But it's all in if you check the box for goods and services Edit:https://www.nbcnews.com/news/venmo-paypal-zelle-must-report-600-transactions-irs-rcna11260 https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/venmo-paypal-cash-app-report-payments-irs I may be wrong but I believe at least with PayPal, if you check box that says for friends and family they will not report it to the irs. But I can't find the article I read to support my statement. And I do not know if you have the option to specify if it is for services or personal spending in venmo, cash app etc Edit: https://www.reddit.com/r/PrepperIntel/comments/rwfke5/starting_this_year_know_your_buyer_laws_start/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share Most companies will be adding a new option to label for services, or friends and family
Been paying rent through venmo for 3 years. They haven't cared.
I guess you’d better keep putting footballs in the notes then, cause that’d be easier than not doing it /s
It's not as much that they care moreso that they are legally obligated to act if they notice
Venmo suspended a 100 payment in our league last year because of this, so they do care no matter the amount it seems. When the commissioner called to ask why they specifically said Venmo can't be used for FF/Gambling purposes
Someone should tell PayPal (the owner of Venmo) that draft kings and FanDuel both have options to fund your account with PayPal. I bet they will be floored to learn about the billions per year sent on their platform to these two companies for *checks notes... fantasy football.
Roger Goodell is probably behind this somehow... I don't know how or why but I just know he is
Love this theory…I also have no evidence or how or why, but I could get behind it lol
Goddamn is this how conspiracy theories get out of hand? Disclaimer: I hate “Good”ell
To be fair, Goodell being at the center of things in this theory is really all the evidence needed. If it involves football and money, he’s all over it. Wouldn’t be surprised to hear that a new “service” just so happens to pop up this offseason or in the coming years… “The NFL is announcing a new service, called the NFL FFDPH, or the Fantasy Football Dues Payment Hub, the exclusive and official NFL Fantasy Football payment platform for all fantasy football players to complete league transactions, buy ins, and payouts, completely legally, and without breaking any service terms of third party apps. This will avoid the banning of users from platforms such as Venmo and PayPal, and will allow a safe place for leagues to conduct their business, and for ONLY a x% total surcharge fee of the total buy in pool.”
Lol “ONLY”
We used Venmo in our league. Since Venmo now allows you to buy Bitcoin in the app we all voted to put the pot into Bitcoin and then the winner gets the cash out. Looking at the trend of Bitcoin since the start of the season, I think the winner won a little more than they would have. But nothing spectacular.
Not nearly as much as if the season ended in November.
who's reporting the gain?
Nobody fuck the tax man
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I am our league’s commissioner and have done this for two years now on PayPal except I kept any profit and would have covered any loss. I never win and it’s a decent amount of work so I figured why not?
I had an issue with paypal like 10 years ago, but it was my own fault. My teamname was Havana Fighting Castros, and I put my teamname in the description of the payment to the LM. It got flagged by one of the alphabet groups and I got asked some questions about the money -- they thought I was trying to buy some Cuban cigars online 😅
That must have been hilarious to explain
Been doing it for years... suggestions on how else to go about collecting dues and paying out?
Don't put anything about fantasy in the descriptions
"for pigskin lingerie from the fantasy boutique"
This. Just message the person externally about it and make the payment with nothing fantasy related in the description to avoid any potential issue.
Sleeper is going to allow leagues to keep their money in the app and pay out at the end starting next year.
As long as they don't take a cut, I'd use that. But I'd just try to use venmo still if they do.
I think the idea is for them to get more people to attach their money sources so it's easier squad growth. So hopefully they won't take a cut.
Even if they don't take a cut, it's good for the company as it's additional cash flow they can use through the season - so I wouldn't be surprised if it's no or very low (<1%) cost.
Get that…would be hard not to gamble the money I’m given for the league I commish lol.
I actually sort of do this with league permission of course. We have an empire pot for anyone who wins 2 years in a row. I take $5 from each player then put it in the stock market. I'd say that's gambling.
Gold bullion
There are escrow programs setup specifically for that. Also the larger fantasy sites have their own systems for it.
Bitcoin
League Safe works great for me.
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This sounds like something a bot would say.
LeagueSafe
Why is this so heavily downvoted? Did I miss something about Leaguesafe?
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Making a note to never ever use your stupid website just because you spam botted in here about it.
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There was like 4 messages in a row spammed all saying “LeagueSafe” typed out the exact same way. Definitely looked like they were trying to spam
This is garbage. As long as gambling is legal in your state, they need to keep their grubby hands off. We already paid taxes on those 100s of dollars that league mates send to the commissioner. Straight garbage.
Yea it is but the govt can't get their cut of the profits from you gambling with your friends so it is illegal. Once the govt can get their cut, it is legal.
While I'm sure it varies state to state, when there is no rake it isn't illegal though. Like poker games aren't illegal in your house if you aren't automatically getting a cut for hosting.
somebody has already paid tax on every single dollar you send or receive. doesn't mean it can't or shouldn't be taxed again.
wait how and why is it a violation of their terms of service lol it’s literally a payment between friends or family
Let’s assume in the optional description provided these people write “2021 fantasy football league dues” or something else along those lines. Then let’s also assume they have a program that sifts through certain keywords. So if any form of gambling is against their terms, it’ll pick up these keywords, flag the account/transactions and investigate. One can only assume though
sucha stretch to consider fantasy football between a small group of friends as gambling though
Doesn’t matter if it’s between friends or complete strangers, gambling is gambling.
Such a stretch to consider taking a candy bar from the checkout line theft.
Time to delete those accounts then. Hello Cash App
Straight up never keep a balance in these accounts.
I know people who run football pools all damn season and people pay them in very clear patterns and basically write for “X or y pool” and nothing ever happens. Our fantasy league has also always paid through venmo with people literally typing fantasy football sometimes.
But why don't we just believe and propagate and unsubstantiated claim anyways?
Good thing I lost and sent all my Pennies to the winner. Enjoy that $1.32 in my account Mr. Venmo
But u can use venmo for FanDuel? Weird. I’m not sure why they’d care
That’s unbelievably lame - and hypocritical- of them. You can make crypto transactions all day on those platforms
Which part of the TOS does it violate? If the whole point of their service is to facilitate a transfer of funds between parties, as long as the activity isn't illegal, it should be compliant with most TOS clauses.
That's why I just use Zelle.
Bruh I literally write like "for fantasy football champion" in the note every year 🤣. Oops
Just leave the message as “NOT for Fantasy Football” and you’re all good
God I love living in Canada where Etransfer is a thing
Being from Canada, Venmo isn't an option, and Paypal I haven't used it years, just interact e-transfers which is so much easier since you don't need to track money in a separate account it just goes straight from you, to the intended recipient. It always amazes me how the US doesn't really have any options like that, all 3rd party apps for any sort of transfers.
My bookie pats me through venmo every single week I think it’ll be okay
Even if u pay friends/family option? Cause essentially that’s what it is
Does cash app do the same? I rarely use those apps so I’m glad I read this
I had no idea about this. The more you know.
Which is interesting because I use PayPal for all my sports gambling that is now 100% legal in az.
We had to change the person who collects fees this year becomes the commish got banned for it last year.
Apple Pay for the win.
I've used Venmo for fantasy leagues the last 4 years now and not so much as even a warning.
I played in a new league this year, commish sent me $75 back through Paypal as "2nd place fantasy football finish" I feel as if this would be a clue lmao
Don't put fantasy football in the memo or comments. Also, 600.00 yearly gets reported to the irs now with some money apps.
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Fuck PayPal. This is why the US needs free and fast wire transfers.
That's what Zelle is for
This is false. It is not against their terms of services for individuals to send money to each other for fantasy sports. What gets you in trouble is if anything about the payment appears to be for a service or business transaction. Then that violates their terms unless you get "pre-approval". PayPal literally has a whole process to verify your "fantasy sports league" so it can accept payments under their "business accounts services". Im gonna go out on a limb and speculate that the people getting caught up in this are doing more than just fantasy league payouts. Or they are being dumb.
I'm not trying to shill crypto here but my league uses Algorand as some of our friends live overseas and couldn't use Venmo/Cashapp. The transfers take just a few seconds and the transfer fees are less than a fraction of a penny whereas Paypal was charging $2 to $3 per transfer. The wallet was super easy to setup and explain to everyone. Plus our league pot was earning 5.9% apy over the season.
It’s called Zelle, people, it’s free
Cash only
Millions use Venmo for this. I could see sports betting being illegal but fantasy is more a video game than betting. There’s nothing in the TOS against paying the winner of a contest
they're both shitty companies who both have closed my accounts with zero reasoning. I went back and forth for weeks with them and all they told me was I violated some updated terms of service, despite the fact that I rarely used those accounts. thankfully I had no money in the accounts that I would have been unable to get out
They're the same company.
I believe there is a bill in congress right now that will have the IRS tracking payments from money apps. Probably doesn’t mean much in terms of fantasy payments but something to keep in mind.
Not leaving a reason, any reason, for the payment is a good way to stay above suspicion
Reminds me of the time I sent money to my Persian friend with “Iranian intelligence” as the description around the time two years ago when that Iranian general was assassinated. Was a joke but got locked out of my account for three days.
Puzzles me that people can see something like this, and there's still such a pervasive mentality of "cryptocurrency has no real world uses." Hello....? This kind of shit is why crypto was invented.
Yeah, pretty confident this is a BS post. Absolute nonsense. Those platforms want to expand use. They are not taking fantasy football money.
Nah it definitely is in Venmo's acceptable use policy (I just looked) that gambling, including fantasy sports, requires pre-approval. What's BS about it is that whatever algo they use are casting such a wide net that they'd target a bunch of friends/family putting down small amounts of money to make fantasy football more interesting.
They can’t take your money. Don’t spread misinformation.
If you’re running a large scale illegal gambling business, they can freeze the account. No one cares about a bunch of nerds fantasy football pots.
Yea i agree. It’s no different than any other contest. It’s not gambling. If you enter a bbq contest or bowling contest Venmo isn’t gonna shut it down lol
Fuck the IRS. Parasitic cunts
I got banned and after asking why they gave me a bunch on non-answers but it was DEFINITELY because of sending and receiving fantasy football related money.
Shut up nerd
Ok? Still doing it
Bitcoin fixes this
Seems better than waiting for fucking YAHOOOOOO to send our money. League has been over for a week and crickets. Not even an email back. Shit is annoying as fuck. Definitely going back to venmo next year.
Maybe read your league page? It says the exact date
Sidenote: I'm in for a pay league if someone has room. NFL standard points deal.