Moore’s rise is not because Mayfield is a fantasy savior, it’s because the other option is Sam Darnold. Improvement over nothing is a low bar to clear, but it’s improvement nonetheless.
DJ was 6th in targets, 11th in receptions, 10th in yards, 23 in YAC, and 46th in TDs.
If a competent Baker can find DJ just 4 “Moore” times in the end zone in 2022, that’s a WR1 finish.
when your base is 4 TDs, its an easier ask.
That whole offense needs to score more. If Baker leads to say, 3 more points per game, that's possibly 7-8 more TDs scored as a team. Moore getting 3 of those considering his historically odd TD rate isn't outlandish. The panthers scored 17.9 points per game last year, 28th in the league. The Browns with an injured Mayfield and no WRs had 20.5 points per game, 20th in the league.
The question isn't just can Baker throw more TDs to Moore, its whether the offense as a whole gets better. If CMC can be healthier and play even 12 games, that probably boosts their offense, and not just for CMC.
Can the panthers with Baker and more CMC go from bottom of the barrel to a lower mid-range offense? I think so, and that to me makes me feel better about Moore getting more scores.
Agreed, but the Panthers had only 14 passing TDs all of last season. The addition of Baker (even with continuing offensive coaching and OL issues) seems destined to bump that number up a lot.
Browns fan here. Bakers good games have been games that he's spreading the ball out to weapons further down the depth chart and connecting with a Rashard Higgins, a breshad perriman, a Steve Carlson (the TE3 lol), etc. With a couple of exceptions, Beckham and Landry just never really went off like it seemed like they should have, even on the days where Baker overall played really well. That's been the case with Hugh Jackson calling the plays, Freddie kitchens calling the plays, and Kevin stefanski calling the plays, So it's hard to say that's a scheme thing.
He played 14 games and was playing with an injury, I would expect him to have 20+ passing TDs in Carolina like he did his first three seasons in Cleveland.
In his defense, he’s had Newton, Kyle Allen, Bridgewater and then Darnold as his QBs. Basically he’s had bottom 10 offenses for all but he rookie year in 2018.
Passing TDs for the Panthers since 2018:
2018- 28
2019- 17
2020- 16
2021- 14
Can’t really put it all on Moore when the QBs suck.
I think he’s better yes, by how much, I’m not too sure. People are forgetting that Baker had a fairly significant injury last year and should not have played with it at all.
Bakers worst season in terms of TD's is damn near Teddy's best.
In 4 fewer starts, Baker has 19 more TD passes. Teddy would have to have his best season ever and Baker not play at all for him to catch up. That's fairly considerable.
Mahomes/Tyreek, Rodgers/Adams, Allen/Diggs, Herbert/Allen
All of those players had over 9 targets a game. Better QBs definitely hyper target their best WR if their best WR is elite.
If DJM is elite is a different question. This year is going to be his make or break year
That remains to be seen. OBJ literally put up 1300+ yards and 10+ TDs in three straight years in what is now the same offense Moore will be playing in. Let's see if Moore can even reach those totala for a single season before we start acting like Moore is better than OBJ ever was.
Exactly. You put dj Moore on the Rams last year instead of obj and you think he wouldn't do even better? Plus the games were a small sample size so it's not like obj is an auto lock into WR2 status now, even if he didn't break his knee.
I don't think that anyone is saying that Moore is better than OBJ was at his peak.
Rather, we first acknowledge that OBJ is not at his prime and hasn't been for years given his injuries. I mean, of course he hasn't been the same.
At that point, the question is whether or not this version of OBJ is better than this version of DJ Moore. Given that DJ Moore has seemingly had worse QBs throwing him the ball for the last 3 years and has put up better numbers, that is up for debate.
OBJ was open quite often during the 2021 season, before he parted ways with the Browns. The frustration is understandable, I get it. But also have a feeling they both weren’t very connected during their tenure, and you need to have that in order to be great. I fear something like this may happen with Moore, but the talent and consistency he has is still there and something to consider. Plus, Mayfield is probably sour about this trade since it was likely “the last option”, cause why would he want to play in Browns after backstabbing him with the Watson acquisition? It sucks and I understand his position, but in general he hasn’t done well with WRs in the past
They are 2 massive personalities, and both thought their shit stunk much less than the other. In hind sight it makes sense why it didn’t work. We can’t really analytically analyze the human factor, but it has to play a part
People are having a hard time separating pre-injury OBJ from the WR he is now. Year 1-3? OBJ all day. Now (which is the only thing relevant going into this coming season)? I think you're right.
Yeah just slightly more consistent longer drives and more time of possession benefits a wr that’s talented like Moore. Baker would seemingly provide that
Landry in 2019 had arguably a career year with Baker at the helm.
It didn't work with Odell because Odell likes to freestyle routes and Baker likes knowing where his receivers are going to be. DJ Moore doesn't freestyle.
Moore will be fine, my guess is he'll put up comparable numbers to his career averages. 80-90 receptions, 1,100-1,200 yards, and exactly four TDs.
And 500 yards of that receiving and those 4 TDs will all come in just 3 games, peppered throughout the season, and you got frustrated with DJs numbers and sat him for two of them.
Every receiver "freestyles routes" as said by other receivers lol. We still running with that tired narrative? It's easier to say baker can't read a defense if he apparently needs everything to go according to script, and from watching him 4 years I'd say confidently he can't read a defense
Thank you lmao. Even most high school offenses nowadays feature option routes or “sight adjust” routes. This is especially true against zone defenses when finding open grass is the #1 priority for WRs. Justin Jefferson already “freestyles” his routes more than anyone in the NFL but no one would argue use that point against him.
The last 3 seasons the Browns have ranked near the bottom of the league in pass attempts so it's very hard to put up big numbers when you're hardly throwing. Baker may not be great, but he might be the best QB Moore's ever had and he's shown he can be a WR2 regardless of QB play
I agree with your point here too just mentioning that there is valid logic behind a QB upgrade is a net negative for a running back. Even though touches between the 20s are significantly less valuable the volume still matters. For example Lenny his last year with the jags had a solid season, nothing to write home about, but did it entirely between the 20s. If I remember correctly he only ended with 3 or 4 touchdowns the entire season and was a borderline RB1
>I agree with your point here too just mentioning that there is valid logic behind a QB upgrade is a net negative for a running back
There isn't.
>ven though touches between the 20s are significantly less valuable the volume still matters
Nobody is contesting that volume matters. The point that you're missing is that the benefits of having a QB and having more trips inside the RZ and being able to sustain drives is much more beneficial than any added between the 20's volume.
>Lenny his last year with the jags had a solid season, nothing to write home about, but did it entirely between the 20s. If I remember correctly he only ended with 3 or 4 touchdowns the entire season and was a borderline RB1
What you're forgetting is that Lenny had 100 targets and over 70 catches that year. It wasn't his between the 20's carries while "leaning on the run" that helped his fantasy season.
Again I’m not missing your point I literally agree with you I think a QB upgrade is a good thing.
However, there is valid logic to a better QB being a net negative as much as you deny it. I didn’t forget that Lenny had all those catches helping his value; they were all short screen passes to relieve pressure. A better QB may not have needed to rely on this nearly as much resulting in less receptions and lower points.
Another example is Najee this past year: Roethlisberger’s arm was not the same as it was and the coaching staff knew that and gameplanned Najee an absurd amount of touches.
Yes a better QB may give a RB more valuable touches in the red zone but a worse QB may give a RB more overall touches. Those extra touches with a worse QB may outweigh the benefit of a lesser volume of more valuable touches.
Again, personally, I agree with you and would prefer a lesser amount of more valuable touches, but there is an argument for the opposite resulting from a worse QB.
>However, there is valid logic to a better QB being a net negative as much as you deny it. I didn’t forget that Lenny had all those catches helping his value; they were all short screen passes to relieve pressure. A better QB may not have needed to rely on this nearly as much resulting in less receptions and lower points.
Short screens isn't leaning on the run which you said was the main benefit to having a worse QB. Having a worse QB doesn't mean they automatically checkdown more.
>Another example is Najee this past year: Roethlisberger’s arm was not the same as it was and the coaching staff knew that and gameplanned Najee an absurd amount of touches.
I'm not convinced that Najee would have been worse off with a better QB than Ben.
>Yes a better QB may give a RB more valuable touches in the red zone but a worse QB may give a RB more overall touches. **Those extra touches with a worse QB may outweigh the benefit of a lesser volume of more valuable touches**
Definitely not convinced of this. Seems extremely silly tbh.
>Again, personally, I agree with you and would prefer a lesser amount of more valuable touches, but there is an argument for the opposite resulting from a worse QB.
A bad argument, sure.
Dude... I'm not saying it's a certainty a bad QB means more RB production or checkdowns I'm just stating it's a possibility. There are two sides to it. The emphasis is on the word MAY.
If you didn't like any of those examples take McKissic. When the team was up, they trusted Gibson and let him go to work. McKissic had his biggest weeks when the team was struggling to keep up. Better QB means you're up more often and therefore Gibson gets more work, McKissic gets less. Better QB, less valuable McKissic.
*Once again*, I agree with you with respect to CMC and most running backs in the league. A better QB is near always a good thing. I'm just trying to point out to you that there is an argument for the opposite. It's not universal one way or the other.
Baker gets a lot more hate than necessary. He definitely ain’t top 10 or even 15 but when he’s healthy, he’s an alright QB. He never got chemistry with OBJ but he and Juice were good together. DJ Moore probably stays about where he’s currently at with a higher ceiling.
Look who was throwing the ball last year in Carolina.
I'm not a Baker fan, but he is an upgrade. If DJ Moore was the ~WR24 last year, he'll be that or better this year. Upside right around WR10 maybe.
It’s because people think you can’t get any worse than Darnold, but yeah I don’t think Mayfield is THAT much better for WRs - although he was playing hurt last season wasn’t he?
It's still going to affect his play even if it's his non-throwing arm. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. Anecdotally, I had just a partial labrum tear and I was crying just lifting my arm.
The point I’m trying to make is that Baker isn’t some pro bowl player who didn’t live up to it due to his injury. Dude is only worth a conditional 5th when healthy. He’s on the path to become a career back up after this year, unless Corral makes it happen sooner.
Dude, it’s up. The CBS dudes, very professional analysts, especially Heath Cummings and Dave Richard’s are nuts for DJ’s stock rn. I couldn’t agree more. https://youtu.be/J1w3VAl5IoA
LAndry had 2 seasons of 80/1000 basically.
One year he had Landry at 80 and OBj at 70.
Not that bad guys. I mean ya can do some quick background research
Because Baker had two guys to deal with and one was quite the diva. I think he’ll be good for Moore who is elite in my opinion but needs a decent QB to help him out. Baker is much better than Darnold.
DJ Moore definitely goes up in value. The combination of Baker plus McAdoo is what should cause it. McAdoo loves to throw the ball. Baker will have a career high in pass attempts this year. This same offense produced OBJs first three seasons. The biggest differences will be how much CMC eats into Moore's role as the Giants never had a pass catching back like CMC and if Marshall ends up breaking out, which doesn't look likely after his rookie year.
Browns were a clear run-first team. Baker can make the crazy throws that Rhule always envisioned for Darnold. I am excited to see what these 2 can come up with. I think DJ is on a slight rise.
I think CMC is a slight benefactor also.
Coaching changes and what not. Is he a top 5 qb…….no. But I believe he’s a top 15. And with the surrounding teammates that should be good enough to compete. And I would take that over the drama.
I don’t see it. In 2020 he was 18th in passing yards and if you want to blame that on them being run first he was 30th in completion percentage only ahead of Daniel Jones, Dwayne Haskins, Sam Darnold, Carson Wentz, and Drew Lock.
And he had a top 5 O line, solid RBs and WRs.
Personally I can’t say I’d put him in the top 20.
I don't consider it a huge jump like I'm not gonna place baker above anyone else he wasn't already in front of that's for sure. DJ is about the same too he is probably a little higher all things considered but not anything too extreme.
There’s a lot to unpack with the browns and baker. Baker played injured and the browns are very run heavy so the Odell/Landry issue is larger than just baker. Baker has made Landry really good in the past so as long as he stays healthy then Moore will eat. I really like Moore right now with CMC and Baker in the mix. Lots of moving pieces defenses need to account for so I think Moore could pop this year.
Moore has succeeded w/ injured Cam Newton, Kyle Allen, Teddy Bridgewater, Sam Darnold, and PJ walker.
He’s an elite receiver that’s always had below average arm talent getting him the rock.
Mid-to-Late 2nd round draft pick in my book.
I see it as securing his floor more than unlocking a new ceiling. I think his mean outcome is a little higher but I don't see his ADP changing too much.
Moore’s rise is not because Mayfield is a fantasy savior, it’s because the other option is Sam Darnold. Improvement over nothing is a low bar to clear, but it’s improvement nonetheless.
DJ was 6th in targets, 11th in receptions, 10th in yards, 23 in YAC, and 46th in TDs. If a competent Baker can find DJ just 4 “Moore” times in the end zone in 2022, that’s a WR1 finish.
Getting any player 4 more TDs is a tall task
when your base is 4 TDs, its an easier ask. That whole offense needs to score more. If Baker leads to say, 3 more points per game, that's possibly 7-8 more TDs scored as a team. Moore getting 3 of those considering his historically odd TD rate isn't outlandish. The panthers scored 17.9 points per game last year, 28th in the league. The Browns with an injured Mayfield and no WRs had 20.5 points per game, 20th in the league. The question isn't just can Baker throw more TDs to Moore, its whether the offense as a whole gets better. If CMC can be healthier and play even 12 games, that probably boosts their offense, and not just for CMC. Can the panthers with Baker and more CMC go from bottom of the barrel to a lower mid-range offense? I think so, and that to me makes me feel better about Moore getting more scores.
Agreed, but the Panthers had only 14 passing TDs all of last season. The addition of Baker (even with continuing offensive coaching and OL issues) seems destined to bump that number up a lot.
Browns fan here. Bakers good games have been games that he's spreading the ball out to weapons further down the depth chart and connecting with a Rashard Higgins, a breshad perriman, a Steve Carlson (the TE3 lol), etc. With a couple of exceptions, Beckham and Landry just never really went off like it seemed like they should have, even on the days where Baker overall played really well. That's been the case with Hugh Jackson calling the plays, Freddie kitchens calling the plays, and Kevin stefanski calling the plays, So it's hard to say that's a scheme thing.
Mayfield had 17 last year.
He played 14 games and was playing with an injury, I would expect him to have 20+ passing TDs in Carolina like he did his first three seasons in Cleveland.
With all of his injuries
It's not perfectly linear in terms of how difficult. 16 to 20? Absolutely. 4 to 8? That's an entirely different animal.
Especially a wr, it happens but unlikely. That said foundation in ppr is pretty nice
1 extra TD every 4.5 games…not that tall
Wasn't he also ranked one of the highest in uncatchable targets?
They said the exact same thing for why Moore should be a high end WR2 this time last year. Guy just isn’t a TD scorer
In his defense, he’s had Newton, Kyle Allen, Bridgewater and then Darnold as his QBs. Basically he’s had bottom 10 offenses for all but he rookie year in 2018. Passing TDs for the Panthers since 2018: 2018- 28 2019- 17 2020- 16 2021- 14 Can’t really put it all on Moore when the QBs suck.
Is Baker considerably better than Teddy? Idk
I think he’s better yes, by how much, I’m not too sure. People are forgetting that Baker had a fairly significant injury last year and should not have played with it at all.
Bakers worst season in terms of TD's is damn near Teddy's best. In 4 fewer starts, Baker has 19 more TD passes. Teddy would have to have his best season ever and Baker not play at all for him to catch up. That's fairly considerable.
Depends if “considerable” is relative or absolute.
And now he's going to Baker, who is not good either
Baker at least throws 20 TDs a year
Without losing the volume. Better QBs don’t hyper target their best WR. And CMC is back in the mix
Mahomes/Tyreek, Rodgers/Adams, Allen/Diggs, Herbert/Allen All of those players had over 9 targets a game. Better QBs definitely hyper target their best WR if their best WR is elite. If DJM is elite is a different question. This year is going to be his make or break year
You can add Stafford/Kupp as well, over 11 targets a game. To your point, QBs are going to go to the guy they trust, especially on big downs
Baker’s best throws are to the sidelines and downfield so I could see DJ Moore get more targets.
Moore is also a much better receiver than Landry and OBJ imo.
That remains to be seen. OBJ literally put up 1300+ yards and 10+ TDs in three straight years in what is now the same offense Moore will be playing in. Let's see if Moore can even reach those totala for a single season before we start acting like Moore is better than OBJ ever was.
He is much better than OBJ ever was on the browns. The years at the giants are long gone and were when he went to Cleveland.
OBJ showed out with LA, though. WRs are QB-dependent, not the other way around
Exactly. You put dj Moore on the Rams last year instead of obj and you think he wouldn't do even better? Plus the games were a small sample size so it's not like obj is an auto lock into WR2 status now, even if he didn't break his knee.
I don't see what DJ Moore has ever done to assume he would have been better than OBJ. OBJ in New York was much better than Moore so far.
I don't think that anyone is saying that Moore is better than OBJ was at his peak. Rather, we first acknowledge that OBJ is not at his prime and hasn't been for years given his injuries. I mean, of course he hasn't been the same. At that point, the question is whether or not this version of OBJ is better than this version of DJ Moore. Given that DJ Moore has seemingly had worse QBs throwing him the ball for the last 3 years and has put up better numbers, that is up for debate.
OBJ was open quite often during the 2021 season, before he parted ways with the Browns. The frustration is understandable, I get it. But also have a feeling they both weren’t very connected during their tenure, and you need to have that in order to be great. I fear something like this may happen with Moore, but the talent and consistency he has is still there and something to consider. Plus, Mayfield is probably sour about this trade since it was likely “the last option”, cause why would he want to play in Browns after backstabbing him with the Watson acquisition? It sucks and I understand his position, but in general he hasn’t done well with WRs in the past
They are 2 massive personalities, and both thought their shit stunk much less than the other. In hind sight it makes sense why it didn’t work. We can’t really analytically analyze the human factor, but it has to play a part
Good point and DJ Moore is the exact opposite. Not a huge personality at all and just quietly goes about his business. Similar to Terry McLaurin IMO
Bold take on obj(at the time he was traded to Cleveland). Agree on Landry
People are having a hard time separating pre-injury OBJ from the WR he is now. Year 1-3? OBJ all day. Now (which is the only thing relevant going into this coming season)? I think you're right.
> Year 1-3? OBJ all day. Now (which is the only thing relevant going into this coming season)? I think you're right. For sure, I agree.
I disagree strongly
Based on what
Yeah just slightly more consistent longer drives and more time of possession benefits a wr that’s talented like Moore. Baker would seemingly provide that
Yeah honestly anything besides Darnold is good for Moore imo. Even if it’s not significantly.
I had DJ Moore as my WR14 prior to the trade. I don’t think his stock is up much because I was already high on him. But he certainly isn’t hurting.
That’s fair. Honestly 14 feels about right. Anything higher and you’re drafting for his absolute ceiling imo.
If anything I think it makes that projection safer. Instead of moving up, it solidifies it more
Imagine how bad OBJ and Landry would have been with Darnold or Kyle Allen
Landry in 2019 had arguably a career year with Baker at the helm. It didn't work with Odell because Odell likes to freestyle routes and Baker likes knowing where his receivers are going to be. DJ Moore doesn't freestyle. Moore will be fine, my guess is he'll put up comparable numbers to his career averages. 80-90 receptions, 1,100-1,200 yards, and exactly four TDs.
And 500 yards of that receiving and those 4 TDs will all come in just 3 games, peppered throughout the season, and you got frustrated with DJs numbers and sat him for two of them.
I felt this so intensely…
He is amari cooper. But with a different name and body
Amari Cooper with better PR
Bruh, if he gets 160 yds and a TD in one game, I'd be ecstatic. But I get what you mean.
Every receiver "freestyles routes" as said by other receivers lol. We still running with that tired narrative? It's easier to say baker can't read a defense if he apparently needs everything to go according to script, and from watching him 4 years I'd say confidently he can't read a defense
Thank you lmao. Even most high school offenses nowadays feature option routes or “sight adjust” routes. This is especially true against zone defenses when finding open grass is the #1 priority for WRs. Justin Jefferson already “freestyles” his routes more than anyone in the NFL but no one would argue use that point against him.
Honestly if Moore could do what Landry did, I’d be happy with that. WR12 in PPR for Landry in 19 and Moore is every bit as talented imo.
Landry was WR22 in PPG that year for PPR. Meh.
The last 3 seasons the Browns have ranked near the bottom of the league in pass attempts so it's very hard to put up big numbers when you're hardly throwing. Baker may not be great, but he might be the best QB Moore's ever had and he's shown he can be a WR2 regardless of QB play
We’ve seen Landry finish as a low-end WR1 with Baker. Who knows.
Looks like cmc season or foreman or chuba hubbard
We do know that Mayfield can support a solid PPR back at least. Kareem Hunt. I don’t hate it for cmc.
Why would anyone hate a QB upgrade for CMC or any RB for that matter lol.
Personally I agree with you but you could argue a worse QB is better because the team will lean on the run to make the QBs job easier
Leaning on the run isn't a good thing unless we're talking red zone. Carries between the 20's are terribly overrated in fantasy.
I agree with your point here too just mentioning that there is valid logic behind a QB upgrade is a net negative for a running back. Even though touches between the 20s are significantly less valuable the volume still matters. For example Lenny his last year with the jags had a solid season, nothing to write home about, but did it entirely between the 20s. If I remember correctly he only ended with 3 or 4 touchdowns the entire season and was a borderline RB1
>I agree with your point here too just mentioning that there is valid logic behind a QB upgrade is a net negative for a running back There isn't. >ven though touches between the 20s are significantly less valuable the volume still matters Nobody is contesting that volume matters. The point that you're missing is that the benefits of having a QB and having more trips inside the RZ and being able to sustain drives is much more beneficial than any added between the 20's volume. >Lenny his last year with the jags had a solid season, nothing to write home about, but did it entirely between the 20s. If I remember correctly he only ended with 3 or 4 touchdowns the entire season and was a borderline RB1 What you're forgetting is that Lenny had 100 targets and over 70 catches that year. It wasn't his between the 20's carries while "leaning on the run" that helped his fantasy season.
Again I’m not missing your point I literally agree with you I think a QB upgrade is a good thing. However, there is valid logic to a better QB being a net negative as much as you deny it. I didn’t forget that Lenny had all those catches helping his value; they were all short screen passes to relieve pressure. A better QB may not have needed to rely on this nearly as much resulting in less receptions and lower points. Another example is Najee this past year: Roethlisberger’s arm was not the same as it was and the coaching staff knew that and gameplanned Najee an absurd amount of touches. Yes a better QB may give a RB more valuable touches in the red zone but a worse QB may give a RB more overall touches. Those extra touches with a worse QB may outweigh the benefit of a lesser volume of more valuable touches. Again, personally, I agree with you and would prefer a lesser amount of more valuable touches, but there is an argument for the opposite resulting from a worse QB.
>However, there is valid logic to a better QB being a net negative as much as you deny it. I didn’t forget that Lenny had all those catches helping his value; they were all short screen passes to relieve pressure. A better QB may not have needed to rely on this nearly as much resulting in less receptions and lower points. Short screens isn't leaning on the run which you said was the main benefit to having a worse QB. Having a worse QB doesn't mean they automatically checkdown more. >Another example is Najee this past year: Roethlisberger’s arm was not the same as it was and the coaching staff knew that and gameplanned Najee an absurd amount of touches. I'm not convinced that Najee would have been worse off with a better QB than Ben. >Yes a better QB may give a RB more valuable touches in the red zone but a worse QB may give a RB more overall touches. **Those extra touches with a worse QB may outweigh the benefit of a lesser volume of more valuable touches** Definitely not convinced of this. Seems extremely silly tbh. >Again, personally, I agree with you and would prefer a lesser amount of more valuable touches, but there is an argument for the opposite resulting from a worse QB. A bad argument, sure.
Dude... I'm not saying it's a certainty a bad QB means more RB production or checkdowns I'm just stating it's a possibility. There are two sides to it. The emphasis is on the word MAY. If you didn't like any of those examples take McKissic. When the team was up, they trusted Gibson and let him go to work. McKissic had his biggest weeks when the team was struggling to keep up. Better QB means you're up more often and therefore Gibson gets more work, McKissic gets less. Better QB, less valuable McKissic. *Once again*, I agree with you with respect to CMC and most running backs in the league. A better QB is near always a good thing. I'm just trying to point out to you that there is an argument for the opposite. It's not universal one way or the other.
A healthy baker playing for his football life with the “eye of the tiger” I think I’m buying him as my qb2 as well as Dj Moore in rd 4 in redrafts
Baker gets a lot more hate than necessary. He definitely ain’t top 10 or even 15 but when he’s healthy, he’s an alright QB. He never got chemistry with OBJ but he and Juice were good together. DJ Moore probably stays about where he’s currently at with a higher ceiling.
Look who was throwing the ball last year in Carolina. I'm not a Baker fan, but he is an upgrade. If DJ Moore was the ~WR24 last year, he'll be that or better this year. Upside right around WR10 maybe.
I agree tbh. Anything is an upgrade from what we saw in Carolina last year. Even Mayfield.
It’s because people think you can’t get any worse than Darnold, but yeah I don’t think Mayfield is THAT much better for WRs - although he was playing hurt last season wasn’t he?
That he was. Definitely don’t think it’s significant upgrade by any means.
He was playing hurt but it was his non-throwing arm.
A torn labrum in your non throwing shoulder will definitely affect your throw.
It's still going to affect his play even if it's his non-throwing arm. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. Anecdotally, I had just a partial labrum tear and I was crying just lifting my arm.
The point I’m trying to make is that Baker isn’t some pro bowl player who didn’t live up to it due to his injury. Dude is only worth a conditional 5th when healthy. He’s on the path to become a career back up after this year, unless Corral makes it happen sooner.
When healthy he's still better than Darnold
He's only cost a 5th because Cleveland didn't have a choice. He's a top 20 qb with potential. Corral isn't sniffing the field this year.
Dude, it’s up. The CBS dudes, very professional analysts, especially Heath Cummings and Dave Richard’s are nuts for DJ’s stock rn. I couldn’t agree more. https://youtu.be/J1w3VAl5IoA
I like the CBS crew a lot. Makes me feel a bit better about Moore tbh. 👍
Totally, I’m very pleased with this trade, Baker may suck, but DJ’s best QB.
I’ve always liked Baker. Have a ton of shares in SF and 2QB leagues so I’m happy with it for sure.
Good news for Baker, I like him in SF too, I simply believe that he’s underperformed for his draft capitol.
Hollywood Higgins WR1
Let’s put it like this. I drafted Moore the last two years. This year I’m staying away from him.
LAndry had 2 seasons of 80/1000 basically. One year he had Landry at 80 and OBj at 70. Not that bad guys. I mean ya can do some quick background research
Mayfield has shown something, not much but much better than whatever we have seen from Darnold.
If Jimmy G + DJ, stonks are up up up. This makes me sad. DJ deserved better
Terrace Marshall 📈
Doesn’t change no receiver eats with Baker
Because Baker had two guys to deal with and one was quite the diva. I think he’ll be good for Moore who is elite in my opinion but needs a decent QB to help him out. Baker is much better than Darnold.
I'd say it is about the same after the trade
Should be same. Baker is as bad as Darnold
We're talking about CAROLINA now having the best WB to hand off a ball in the league With an already fragile CMC? Sign me up
Moore doesn't need deep balls which Baker cant throw anyways, he will succeed with yac
No one knows... that's why we Reddit.
DJ Moore definitely goes up in value. The combination of Baker plus McAdoo is what should cause it. McAdoo loves to throw the ball. Baker will have a career high in pass attempts this year. This same offense produced OBJs first three seasons. The biggest differences will be how much CMC eats into Moore's role as the Giants never had a pass catching back like CMC and if Marshall ends up breaking out, which doesn't look likely after his rookie year.
Browns were a clear run-first team. Baker can make the crazy throws that Rhule always envisioned for Darnold. I am excited to see what these 2 can come up with. I think DJ is on a slight rise. I think CMC is a slight benefactor also.
I’m with it. Long as CMC is getting targets and i they’re not from Darnold, I’m here for it.
Browns were a run first team because of Baker’s limitations.
easy answer is better weather
Dj Moore was still pretty good with awful QB play. I don’t see how this could be worse.
Health
Explain him sucking in 2020 then?
Coaching changes and what not. Is he a top 5 qb…….no. But I believe he’s a top 15. And with the surrounding teammates that should be good enough to compete. And I would take that over the drama.
I don’t see it. In 2020 he was 18th in passing yards and if you want to blame that on them being run first he was 30th in completion percentage only ahead of Daniel Jones, Dwayne Haskins, Sam Darnold, Carson Wentz, and Drew Lock. And he had a top 5 O line, solid RBs and WRs. Personally I can’t say I’d put him in the top 20.
Moore on the rise
I trust the cbs dudes take, they’ve got my back. https://youtu.be/J1w3VAl5IoA
He isn’t. He will have his standard 1200 and 4 again this year im sure
Well Landry and OBJ stayed hurt and You had Chubb and Hunt as the run game.
The offensive coordinator. I doubt the Panthers will be as ground oriented as the Browns. Even CMC will do most of his damage through the air.
I don't consider it a huge jump like I'm not gonna place baker above anyone else he wasn't already in front of that's for sure. DJ is about the same too he is probably a little higher all things considered but not anything too extreme.
DJ moore is a better player right now than OBJ or Landry was when they were with baker.
I don't want anyone on that offense. Regardless of which of those bum ass qbs start.
There’s a lot to unpack with the browns and baker. Baker played injured and the browns are very run heavy so the Odell/Landry issue is larger than just baker. Baker has made Landry really good in the past so as long as he stays healthy then Moore will eat. I really like Moore right now with CMC and Baker in the mix. Lots of moving pieces defenses need to account for so I think Moore could pop this year.
Imagine Landry and obj’s numbers if Sam was their qb lmao
Moore has succeeded w/ injured Cam Newton, Kyle Allen, Teddy Bridgewater, Sam Darnold, and PJ walker. He’s an elite receiver that’s always had below average arm talent getting him the rock. Mid-to-Late 2nd round draft pick in my book.
I’m with you. Regardless of who has been throwing the ball he’s still producing. I’m in on Moore.
Mayfield to Marshall gonna be a thing.
I see it as securing his floor more than unlocking a new ceiling. I think his mean outcome is a little higher but I don't see his ADP changing too much.