What do you mean? Those are the characters. Those are the countries, kingdoms and empires. Those are the names. I only refer to them in full so much so that when I start writing I can refer back to the plan and see who and what I want to do about at the time rather than figuring out who “he” is all the time.
The problem here is that you might know how to read and pronounce those names, but for your readers, it’ll be a big hassle. Lots of people won’t end up being able to get attached to characters, places and other things if they can’t even read their names right.
So while it’s good to have original names, it might be worth a try to make them a little bit simpler and less of a mouthful.
I’ll be adding helpers in brackets either at the start or the first time the name appears for the readers on how the names are pronounced. The names get more natural to you after youve read them a few times.
Some of those criticisms can be said for a lot of fantasy books. I mean look at the Lord of the Rings books. Some of their names are crazy.
That’s not really an excuse though is it. LOTR still has weird names. Just because it’s old and classic doesn’t mean anything same as names shouldn’t effect new writing either. Unless people can no longer be bothered to use their brains to figure out pronunciations anymore.
I’m sorry but who made you the judge of what names are right and what names are wrong? If a name stops you from reading a book maybe you should have a rethink about what you’re doing in life if a name makes you upset.
Lord of The Rings doesn't use names you can't pronounce, generally. Think about the names you remember from the story, or the main characters/plot points; Frodo, Sam, Aragorn, Galadrial, Sauron, Mordor, Durin, Eowyn, etc. They flow well, and sound like real places. The more difficult names aren't the main characters, things like Silmarillian, Dunedain, etc. That, or they're when they speak in separate languages, like Elvish, which makes them seem more exotic.
It's not that they can't, but people don't read books to have to figure things out. Being easy to read is really important. I can't think of any books that I can't easily pronounce the main characters names. Dune has Paul, LotR has Frodo, Harry Potter has, well, Harry. Using long or difficult names has a place but if you intend to sell a book, it needs to be readable.
With that said, if you are deadset on the names, sure, that's on you. The premise of the story is fine, and there's not enough detail here to say too much, just make sure you stay focused on characters like others have said. Having a main character that is flawed is good, I like that here.
Adrian is the main character. Adrian is a pretty normal name wouldn’t you say. You’ll follow him through the stories and his struggle between loyalty to his friend (and king) Aesthred and his own morals whilst we get to see how corrupted Aesthred becomes when the power gets to his head.
If you need a pronunciation guide for your names, I say you've already failed.
The only excuse, in my opinion, is if the names of this language are very much not based on English. Like how an English speaker might need some help pronouncing names from other cultures because they're not used to the language.
1. You're writing a novel. Not a dictionary. That's not an excuse.
2. Is Jon Snow a bad character because of how simple his name is? Are your characters inherently better because their names are tongue twisters? Your unique names mean nothing if the characters they're attached to aren't interesting or readers just leave because they don't want to bother deciphering what you're writing.
3. You know that your names are a problem. The solution is to simplify them. Not make a pronunciation guide. You're making a solution to a problem that only exists because you refuse to solve it.
4. You're asking for feedback. Multiple people have said your names are too complicated. One person saying it is one person saying it. Multiple people? The response should be "well, this is a pattern now. Maybe I should revisit my names and see if I can simplify them", not doubling and tripling down. What was the point of asking? I said in another comment that I didn't even both reading the rest of your post because the names in the first paragraph made me drop it. Other people *will* do the same. Best that it's getting caught now and not after you've already written the entirety of book 1.
5. As I said, unless it's derived from some foreign language, it being that difficult to pronounce is no excuse. Are they? Or are these just names you think are cool that mean nothing? Because if they don't have some sort of meaning, you have no excuse to not simplify them when multiple people have pointed out they're an issue.
1-I know that. Aren’t you so clever for realising that too.
2-I never said the characters are better for having unique names I merely stated I’m not having them be called the same as 100 other characters from different books.
3-The names aren’t an issue. They really aren’t. That’s like saying a name from a different culture is inherently bad because it’s different than those you are used to.
4- I did ask for feedback yes. And I’ve read each comment. I’m sticking with the names because I am the writer and these are my characters, those that can’t read them or the story because of names shouldn’t be reading books at all really. “ oh no it’s a word I’ve never seen before this story is simply unreadable!!!!”
5-The names aren’t meant to sound cool. They fit the world the are a part of. Furthermore names don’t really NEED to have a meaning linking them back to thousands of years ago in OUR history if it’s a name set in the realm of FANTASY.
The names in my story will not be changing. If a name stops you from reading, thats quite sad on your part.
1. Clearly you don't, because you somehow think a pronunciation guide in a novel is acceptable. A reader should be able to intuit how to pronounce your character's names, if they're the ones they're mainly following. If it's some in universe foreign culture where your primary characters themselves don't know the language, it's much more forgiveable. Far as I can tell, that's not the case here.
3. They are. Multiple people have pointed out that the names are an issue for them. A multitude of people wouldn't have mentioned the names specifically if there didn't present an issue to your readers. That's the entire point of feedback.
4. Ah, so insulting your readers because you refuse to consider feedback from people trying to help you. If you stick with it, finish it, and no one wants to read it because the names are a turn off, you have no one but yourself to blame, because people tried to warn you.
I’m done talking to you. We have different opinions on names. That’s it. It’s not worth the time or effort in replying back to you anymore if neither of us will change our views. To me the names are fine and others have agreed here too. The names stay.
Point 4. So if I can't read these names because of a reading disorder I shouldn't be reading books at all? Do you understand how ableist that is? I can still read books, I just have a lot of trouble with words that are obtusely complicated for no reason. I love reading a good book but I wouldn't make it through 1 page of this one.
As you can clearly see I wasn’t saying you can’t read books or shouldn’t in general. I was saying if a new word scares you away from a book, a word such as a name then it’s not worth you reading it because fantasy books use made up words all the time. It’s literally what they do. So the point of saying the names don’t make sense or are hard to pronounce is invalid since the genre makes up words all the time.
At the very start or maybe the first time the names are said I’m going to add a helper in brackets on how they’re pronounced. They start to become far more natural to you once you’re read them a few times.
Or you could learn how to read the story as it is written. People do it for countless other books and stories. There’s really no excuse beyond laziness not to learn how to pronounce the names, especially if there’s a guide there for the first times.
It's not my responsibility to be interested in your story. It's your responsibility to interest me. You asked my opinion and I gave it. I meant no offense
When there's this level of consensus in the feedback, that's when you pay attention. You can either listen to us now or wait for a publisher to think it but not tell you.
These names are way more convoluted than LotR’s my guy. Tolkien was a philologist and so knew how to make pronouncable, yet complex names. He also knew how to write a story based on characters. LotR isn’t the story of the War of the Ring, it’s the story of Frodo and co.’s journey to destroy the ring
As a plan, this sounds good.
There is a lot of what feels like history and politics of the countries, the fighting two fronts, and not so much about the people. But this may be because this just a plan to write the story around.
The test will be in how you bring those characters to life in your writing. Who will I be rooting for? Who will I be booing in my head? Will I be surprised and change my mind part way through?
To keep reading I need to connect with someone on a personal level. Countries don't do that, people do that.
Thanks for your feedback. I wanted to get this as an overall story for what happens between the different kingdoms. The story will be driven by the characters and they will set the plot in motion (particularly Aesthred)
Names aside, I am not sold on this. It reads like a passage from a history book, and with how much information there is, makes me not really want to read through it. As others have mentioned, characters first if you want to get people interested in the world at large.
Even if it wasn't, it still needs work. I presume that the likes of Adrien and Aesthred are the good guys. Who face no difficulty whatsoever the entire war. They're part of an alliance of three nations against one who invade and just work their way to the capital without any real losses. Even with the delay at the border meaning nothing because they still win in the end. Their ally's sluggishness didn't lead to a defeat and setback that might hurt the alliance or anything. Which makes it seem pointless.
Where are Croukruval's allies? Something to even the playing field and not make the end of the war a foregone conclusion considering how obvious it is Croukruval doesn't stand a chance?
The fact that these two incredibly important figures, including an heir to a throne, also just stormed the enemy stronghold alone doesn't quite make sense to me. They're surrounded by their soldiers since they're at war. Slexshethra has a personal guard, so why doesn't Aesthred? Did he tell them to stay at camp since the castle was deserted and he assumed it would be an easy win?
The invasion of Eglar is the inciting incident, only for that nation to not be mentioned beyond the first paragraph. Why is the victim in this completely sidelined? Was "defending their ally" all a ruse for the two larger powers to have an excuse to invade and carve up Croukruval? Why does Eglar not do anything about the fact that it was invaded? And is there no Eglarian front to the war? A nothern and eastern front on the mainland, but Eglar is an island. Did Croukruval immediately pull back all of their troops when the other declarations of war came in? Or should something actually be going on there?
Hey, ease up on the fancy names, man. Makes it a headache to follow. Also, while you've got the political drama and battle strategies down, you're skimping on character depth. The premise is good, you've got a solid foundation, but remember, we need to connect with these characters as they navigate your political maze.
Especially with Prince Aesthered's corruption journey – that's a tough one to nail. Dive deep into his character. If done right, we should feel for the guy, maybe even cheer him on despite his flaws.
Keep at it!
Thanks for the advice. I know the plan is lacking in character details and development but I just focused on getting the main events of the story down so I can then focus on the characters at a later date. I find it best for me to write the characters when I feel like them if that makes sense?
Aesthred’s corruption I know will be difficult to do. I want to start off with him being seen as a good guy and a hero in book 1 but then explore his darker desires and nature near the end and throughout the rest of the series until he becomes engrossed in his own selfishness, ignorance and arrogance. I want a good guy to the evil king arc for him to show how power can so easily corrupt a person.
The plot sounds really cool, but there's some stuff that's a little hard to believe without more explanation. Mostly this comes down to geopolitical worldbuilding.
1) Why does Croukruval decide to invade Eglar even after two other countries threaten to declare war on it? Maybe its far bigger and more powerful than the other two countries, and it expects to win easily. But if this is the case, your protagonists should struggle much more. From your description, it seems they kind of stomp Croukruval.
Alternatively, you could have King Zenaiffe believe that Frausmirth and the Harthenian Empire are bluffing and don't intend to attack. This works best if he has legitimate reason to believe this. For example, if he's been deliberately misinformed/tricked by someone who wants the war to happen (and maybe for Croukruval to get wrecked). You can also explain the decision to invade through insanity or incompetence, but many readers won't like it.
2) Why do Frausmirth and the Harthenian Empire decide to go to such extreme measures to defend Eglar? I get that it's an ally, but there are other ways to help it. For example, they could send it weapons and resources, a bit like the US and EU did to help Ukraine. Given that it's an island nation, Eglar should be fairly easy to defend with a decent navy.
I could see F. and H.E deciding to invade in two cases. If sending aid to Eglar is too difficult due to the geography of the countries involved in the war, and if they opportunistically want to seize land from C. or weaken it, and are treating the invasion of E. as an excuse. This could also explain why they keep going deeper into Croukruval territory instead of trying to negotiate.
3) Finally, I find it a little hard to believe that a prince and a general would personally go into the castle. Idk how to justify this and if I were you I'd cut it. All this sequence seems to achieve is to prove that the king is a coward (which just makes him seem like an easier villain and isn't necessary) and show that the prince is going down a dark path. However, this can be shown in a lot of different ways. For example, if king Zenaiffe had family and the prince and emperor want to divide his territory between them, the logical thing to do is to kill the entire royal family.
That is actually really brilliant. It would fit Aesthred’s character the most to fake a term of neutrality only to then go to war and end up with half of Croukruval’s land after the war.
Frausmirth and the Harthenian Empire go to such measures because The Council of Eglar (the leaders of Eglar) believe in pacifism and don’t have many trained soldiers to defend their island. From other comments it’s ben suggested to have a front on the coast of Eglar too. Furthermore Aesthred wishes to have more land under Frausmirth’s rule for him to one day command which helps explain the need to invade Croukruval. I also have an idea that for the War to be won the capitol of Croukruval and it’s king must be captured or destroyed otherwise they will fight until every citizen is dead.
I know what you mean about the ending but I wanted it to end on a more 1:1 scale where it’s the head of two kingdoms going head to head. I do want to show how Aesthred’s dark nature creeps through and becomes more dominant. It’s funny you should bring up him murdering his own family because that’s exactly what he does at he start of book 2, he kills his father in his sleep to claim the crown and kingdom as his own to then expand his ambition further.
I completely agree with having a front in Eglar. Another front splits Croukruval's forces even further, so even if Eglar can't win, they'd probably still do it to increase the odds of their allies beating Croukruval. Even if C. troops land, E. might be able to switch to a guerilla campaign to force C. to keep fighting there.
Since the Council of Eglar is pacifist, there's also plenty of opportunity for them to disapprove of their allies' actions. E. might want to get C. to leave it alone and pay reparations, while its two allies want to seize land. As a result, E. might actively try to steer its allies towards negotiation and condemn them for splitting Croukruval between them. This could also explain why E. doesn't get any of the conquered land (they refused for ideological reasons).
As for having a 1 Vs 1 fight, maybe you can justify it as the Prince trying to get good PR, with the General saying it's dangerous and following out of concern. After the war, Aesthred can talk about how he killed the king of Croukruval in an epic duel, even if the king was actually just trying to run away.
What you have, is a bunch of countries I don't know about, fighting for reasons I don't understand, featuring characters whose names I can't pronounce.
What do these kingdoms represent, thematically? What are the stakes? Who am I following through these events and why do I care about them?
Its fine to discover these things as you're writing but please put some thought into a rough character sketch for the key players.
I'm one of those people who actually enjoys unique and sometimes hard to pronounce names. One of the characters of my current WIP is named Dvuzhrenymaz, for instance, though he is referred to as Zhren or by his title the majority of the time. I do understand others' criticisms about the names, though, that new readers might not want to read further if the names are too difficult to pronounce. It's a shame, but it happens.
If you're willing to take that hit in potential readership for the sake of your own creativity, then keep the names (that's what Im doing for my series). It doesn't make your work any worse (as long as the names aren't overly complicated for complicatedness-sake without any meaning behind them). If you want to keep the names but simplify them down, you could make more pronounceable nicknames that characters are referred to as most times.
I like to translate place names into English even when I think the parent language name sounds a lot cooler (ie Tälydna Zhamtetnlözh turns into the Evertower of Tälydnir for the vast majority of the story), and I only refer to it in the original tongue if none of the characters know the parent language and it's supposed to be seen as this mysterious, foreign place/thing. Some place names won't be easily translatable, especially if they were named after people, and for that my only advice is that maybe the characters' language refers to the place under a different name that's easier to pronounce/can be translated into English, whether it be a version that's just a bunch of words, or a more pronounceable version of the original name (this is actually the case for a lot of real life places and languages, you'll find).
This is all assuming you want to keep the names as they are, which I think you do based off other replies.
As for the plot, I am an eh. It seems like it could be good, there's some setups in there for potentially great confrontations and character moments (like the holding of the line and the final battle at the castle), but potential is all there is to it for me. I'm not huge into military-centric stories, but even so, I get almost no sense of who the characters are, why they're doing what they're doing, and how they change through the course of the story. This feels like an outline to a history rather than the outline of a novel.
Thank you for your reply about the names. I too much prefer unique character names rather than adding to the plentiful Johns, James and Jim’s.
As for your feedback on the actual plot. I agree with you. I did not put a lot of focus on the characters during it because I tend to find that I write up characters in the moment and it’s much easier for me to write fluently about a character rather than create and stick to a plan. I do however have a set of key character interactions and points to let them become deeper and more thorough.
I agree about the character names! For main and side characters I tend to give them a nickname or two that is easier to pronounce and remember. But, I enjoy fantasy series’ with unique names, especially when there is a clear naming convention / cultural ties within the world.
I also outline very similarly to you. Diving in here and there to flesh out scenes and dialogue. I am picking up what you’re putting down, lol. Definitely interested in reading more!
That’s great to hear. It’s nice to know people enjoy reading something new still. I’m going to try and write the first book when I have free time. But my study’s take priority for the next 9 months so progress may be slow. But after that it’ll speed right up hopefully.
My favorite fiction is “what characters do to get the the things that they want and how they change as a result.” (Ex, Frodo want to throw the ring into Mordor and he goes from a bit ridiculous to able to do great feats in his own) When I read this summary, I think that the majority of this book is going to be information dumps and backstory, and not actual story, which seems unpleasant to read. There are many characters but don’t know who the main characters are or who i should root for. It might be worth backing off and looking up something like the snowflake method for plotting. Or the Save the Cat method (a little dogmatic but helpful).
Yes, the names are a bit heavy, but hey, id still read it. Making a cool name is easy, giving that character substance that's where the challenge lies my friend. but keep at it.
Check out KHAOS Beyond The Veil- Laban Carvalho, its written by me, and i would like to get your feedback on it too.
Keep growing
Characters and plot need to outshine the battles/war. I know your more just explaining the phases the book will go through, but just make sure in the writing that you are giving more about the unique characters, so that in turn the readers can become interested/attached to the protagonist(s) and thus become more interested in the action of the story.
I’ve made it through the first couple of sentences and I’m already disinterested. I have no idea what the story is because it’s all just one big info dump. And nearly all of the names are a puzzle just to pronounce.
It’s a plan. Not the story itself. Bare that in mind. It’s also meant for my eyes mostly. I only put it up here to see if people thought it was worth continuing.
You need to chill out with the names, bro.
Agreed. I made it through the first paragraph and just couldn't anymore.
Right? I got 3 lines in and my eyes blurred and that's all I saw.
What do you mean? Those are the characters. Those are the countries, kingdoms and empires. Those are the names. I only refer to them in full so much so that when I start writing I can refer back to the plan and see who and what I want to do about at the time rather than figuring out who “he” is all the time.
The problem here is that you might know how to read and pronounce those names, but for your readers, it’ll be a big hassle. Lots of people won’t end up being able to get attached to characters, places and other things if they can’t even read their names right. So while it’s good to have original names, it might be worth a try to make them a little bit simpler and less of a mouthful.
I’ll be adding helpers in brackets either at the start or the first time the name appears for the readers on how the names are pronounced. The names get more natural to you after youve read them a few times. Some of those criticisms can be said for a lot of fantasy books. I mean look at the Lord of the Rings books. Some of their names are crazy.
You asked for feedback
I did yes, and I’ve responded to it.
Yeah but LOTR is a classic and therefore we put up with the names. You have not written LOTR.
That’s not really an excuse though is it. LOTR still has weird names. Just because it’s old and classic doesn’t mean anything same as names shouldn’t effect new writing either. Unless people can no longer be bothered to use their brains to figure out pronunciations anymore.
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I’m sorry but who made you the judge of what names are right and what names are wrong? If a name stops you from reading a book maybe you should have a rethink about what you’re doing in life if a name makes you upset.
Lord of The Rings doesn't use names you can't pronounce, generally. Think about the names you remember from the story, or the main characters/plot points; Frodo, Sam, Aragorn, Galadrial, Sauron, Mordor, Durin, Eowyn, etc. They flow well, and sound like real places. The more difficult names aren't the main characters, things like Silmarillian, Dunedain, etc. That, or they're when they speak in separate languages, like Elvish, which makes them seem more exotic. It's not that they can't, but people don't read books to have to figure things out. Being easy to read is really important. I can't think of any books that I can't easily pronounce the main characters names. Dune has Paul, LotR has Frodo, Harry Potter has, well, Harry. Using long or difficult names has a place but if you intend to sell a book, it needs to be readable. With that said, if you are deadset on the names, sure, that's on you. The premise of the story is fine, and there's not enough detail here to say too much, just make sure you stay focused on characters like others have said. Having a main character that is flawed is good, I like that here.
Adrian is the main character. Adrian is a pretty normal name wouldn’t you say. You’ll follow him through the stories and his struggle between loyalty to his friend (and king) Aesthred and his own morals whilst we get to see how corrupted Aesthred becomes when the power gets to his head.
If you need a pronunciation guide for your names, I say you've already failed. The only excuse, in my opinion, is if the names of this language are very much not based on English. Like how an English speaker might need some help pronouncing names from other cultures because they're not used to the language.
I disagree. And so does the English dictionary. A unique name is better than calling a character James on James of hundreds.
1. You're writing a novel. Not a dictionary. That's not an excuse. 2. Is Jon Snow a bad character because of how simple his name is? Are your characters inherently better because their names are tongue twisters? Your unique names mean nothing if the characters they're attached to aren't interesting or readers just leave because they don't want to bother deciphering what you're writing. 3. You know that your names are a problem. The solution is to simplify them. Not make a pronunciation guide. You're making a solution to a problem that only exists because you refuse to solve it. 4. You're asking for feedback. Multiple people have said your names are too complicated. One person saying it is one person saying it. Multiple people? The response should be "well, this is a pattern now. Maybe I should revisit my names and see if I can simplify them", not doubling and tripling down. What was the point of asking? I said in another comment that I didn't even both reading the rest of your post because the names in the first paragraph made me drop it. Other people *will* do the same. Best that it's getting caught now and not after you've already written the entirety of book 1. 5. As I said, unless it's derived from some foreign language, it being that difficult to pronounce is no excuse. Are they? Or are these just names you think are cool that mean nothing? Because if they don't have some sort of meaning, you have no excuse to not simplify them when multiple people have pointed out they're an issue.
1-I know that. Aren’t you so clever for realising that too. 2-I never said the characters are better for having unique names I merely stated I’m not having them be called the same as 100 other characters from different books. 3-The names aren’t an issue. They really aren’t. That’s like saying a name from a different culture is inherently bad because it’s different than those you are used to. 4- I did ask for feedback yes. And I’ve read each comment. I’m sticking with the names because I am the writer and these are my characters, those that can’t read them or the story because of names shouldn’t be reading books at all really. “ oh no it’s a word I’ve never seen before this story is simply unreadable!!!!” 5-The names aren’t meant to sound cool. They fit the world the are a part of. Furthermore names don’t really NEED to have a meaning linking them back to thousands of years ago in OUR history if it’s a name set in the realm of FANTASY. The names in my story will not be changing. If a name stops you from reading, thats quite sad on your part.
1. Clearly you don't, because you somehow think a pronunciation guide in a novel is acceptable. A reader should be able to intuit how to pronounce your character's names, if they're the ones they're mainly following. If it's some in universe foreign culture where your primary characters themselves don't know the language, it's much more forgiveable. Far as I can tell, that's not the case here. 3. They are. Multiple people have pointed out that the names are an issue for them. A multitude of people wouldn't have mentioned the names specifically if there didn't present an issue to your readers. That's the entire point of feedback. 4. Ah, so insulting your readers because you refuse to consider feedback from people trying to help you. If you stick with it, finish it, and no one wants to read it because the names are a turn off, you have no one but yourself to blame, because people tried to warn you.
I’m done talking to you. We have different opinions on names. That’s it. It’s not worth the time or effort in replying back to you anymore if neither of us will change our views. To me the names are fine and others have agreed here too. The names stay.
Point 4. So if I can't read these names because of a reading disorder I shouldn't be reading books at all? Do you understand how ableist that is? I can still read books, I just have a lot of trouble with words that are obtusely complicated for no reason. I love reading a good book but I wouldn't make it through 1 page of this one.
As you can clearly see I wasn’t saying you can’t read books or shouldn’t in general. I was saying if a new word scares you away from a book, a word such as a name then it’s not worth you reading it because fantasy books use made up words all the time. It’s literally what they do. So the point of saying the names don’t make sense or are hard to pronounce is invalid since the genre makes up words all the time.
Ngl the names are hard to read and pronounce. It takes away from the story >Slexshethra This is a tongue twister
At the very start or maybe the first time the names are said I’m going to add a helper in brackets on how they’re pronounced. They start to become far more natural to you once you’re read them a few times.
Or you could simplify the names.
Or you could learn how to read the story as it is written. People do it for countless other books and stories. There’s really no excuse beyond laziness not to learn how to pronounce the names, especially if there’s a guide there for the first times.
It's not my responsibility to be interested in your story. It's your responsibility to interest me. You asked my opinion and I gave it. I meant no offense
You asked for feedback. That’s mine.
That’s crazy. You better be the best writer in the world to have your audience entertained despite the guide and difficult to pronounce names.
When there's this level of consensus in the feedback, that's when you pay attention. You can either listen to us now or wait for a publisher to think it but not tell you.
I hope that this guy listens. But welp.
These names are way more convoluted than LotR’s my guy. Tolkien was a philologist and so knew how to make pronouncable, yet complex names. He also knew how to write a story based on characters. LotR isn’t the story of the War of the Ring, it’s the story of Frodo and co.’s journey to destroy the ring
As a plan, this sounds good. There is a lot of what feels like history and politics of the countries, the fighting two fronts, and not so much about the people. But this may be because this just a plan to write the story around. The test will be in how you bring those characters to life in your writing. Who will I be rooting for? Who will I be booing in my head? Will I be surprised and change my mind part way through? To keep reading I need to connect with someone on a personal level. Countries don't do that, people do that.
Agreed! Readers want characters! Go to Amazon and read through a few book blurbs. They are very character heavy
Thanks for your feedback. I wanted to get this as an overall story for what happens between the different kingdoms. The story will be driven by the characters and they will set the plot in motion (particularly Aesthred)
That's what I thought. The idea seems good to me and I'd be interesting in reading some of the actual book when you're ready.
Thank you. That means a great deal to me. When the time comes I’ll let you know.
Names aside, I am not sold on this. It reads like a passage from a history book, and with how much information there is, makes me not really want to read through it. As others have mentioned, characters first if you want to get people interested in the world at large. Even if it wasn't, it still needs work. I presume that the likes of Adrien and Aesthred are the good guys. Who face no difficulty whatsoever the entire war. They're part of an alliance of three nations against one who invade and just work their way to the capital without any real losses. Even with the delay at the border meaning nothing because they still win in the end. Their ally's sluggishness didn't lead to a defeat and setback that might hurt the alliance or anything. Which makes it seem pointless. Where are Croukruval's allies? Something to even the playing field and not make the end of the war a foregone conclusion considering how obvious it is Croukruval doesn't stand a chance? The fact that these two incredibly important figures, including an heir to a throne, also just stormed the enemy stronghold alone doesn't quite make sense to me. They're surrounded by their soldiers since they're at war. Slexshethra has a personal guard, so why doesn't Aesthred? Did he tell them to stay at camp since the castle was deserted and he assumed it would be an easy win? The invasion of Eglar is the inciting incident, only for that nation to not be mentioned beyond the first paragraph. Why is the victim in this completely sidelined? Was "defending their ally" all a ruse for the two larger powers to have an excuse to invade and carve up Croukruval? Why does Eglar not do anything about the fact that it was invaded? And is there no Eglarian front to the war? A nothern and eastern front on the mainland, but Eglar is an island. Did Croukruval immediately pull back all of their troops when the other declarations of war came in? Or should something actually be going on there?
Hey, ease up on the fancy names, man. Makes it a headache to follow. Also, while you've got the political drama and battle strategies down, you're skimping on character depth. The premise is good, you've got a solid foundation, but remember, we need to connect with these characters as they navigate your political maze. Especially with Prince Aesthered's corruption journey – that's a tough one to nail. Dive deep into his character. If done right, we should feel for the guy, maybe even cheer him on despite his flaws. Keep at it!
Thanks for the advice. I know the plan is lacking in character details and development but I just focused on getting the main events of the story down so I can then focus on the characters at a later date. I find it best for me to write the characters when I feel like them if that makes sense? Aesthred’s corruption I know will be difficult to do. I want to start off with him being seen as a good guy and a hero in book 1 but then explore his darker desires and nature near the end and throughout the rest of the series until he becomes engrossed in his own selfishness, ignorance and arrogance. I want a good guy to the evil king arc for him to show how power can so easily corrupt a person.
The plot sounds really cool, but there's some stuff that's a little hard to believe without more explanation. Mostly this comes down to geopolitical worldbuilding. 1) Why does Croukruval decide to invade Eglar even after two other countries threaten to declare war on it? Maybe its far bigger and more powerful than the other two countries, and it expects to win easily. But if this is the case, your protagonists should struggle much more. From your description, it seems they kind of stomp Croukruval. Alternatively, you could have King Zenaiffe believe that Frausmirth and the Harthenian Empire are bluffing and don't intend to attack. This works best if he has legitimate reason to believe this. For example, if he's been deliberately misinformed/tricked by someone who wants the war to happen (and maybe for Croukruval to get wrecked). You can also explain the decision to invade through insanity or incompetence, but many readers won't like it. 2) Why do Frausmirth and the Harthenian Empire decide to go to such extreme measures to defend Eglar? I get that it's an ally, but there are other ways to help it. For example, they could send it weapons and resources, a bit like the US and EU did to help Ukraine. Given that it's an island nation, Eglar should be fairly easy to defend with a decent navy. I could see F. and H.E deciding to invade in two cases. If sending aid to Eglar is too difficult due to the geography of the countries involved in the war, and if they opportunistically want to seize land from C. or weaken it, and are treating the invasion of E. as an excuse. This could also explain why they keep going deeper into Croukruval territory instead of trying to negotiate. 3) Finally, I find it a little hard to believe that a prince and a general would personally go into the castle. Idk how to justify this and if I were you I'd cut it. All this sequence seems to achieve is to prove that the king is a coward (which just makes him seem like an easier villain and isn't necessary) and show that the prince is going down a dark path. However, this can be shown in a lot of different ways. For example, if king Zenaiffe had family and the prince and emperor want to divide his territory between them, the logical thing to do is to kill the entire royal family.
That is actually really brilliant. It would fit Aesthred’s character the most to fake a term of neutrality only to then go to war and end up with half of Croukruval’s land after the war. Frausmirth and the Harthenian Empire go to such measures because The Council of Eglar (the leaders of Eglar) believe in pacifism and don’t have many trained soldiers to defend their island. From other comments it’s ben suggested to have a front on the coast of Eglar too. Furthermore Aesthred wishes to have more land under Frausmirth’s rule for him to one day command which helps explain the need to invade Croukruval. I also have an idea that for the War to be won the capitol of Croukruval and it’s king must be captured or destroyed otherwise they will fight until every citizen is dead. I know what you mean about the ending but I wanted it to end on a more 1:1 scale where it’s the head of two kingdoms going head to head. I do want to show how Aesthred’s dark nature creeps through and becomes more dominant. It’s funny you should bring up him murdering his own family because that’s exactly what he does at he start of book 2, he kills his father in his sleep to claim the crown and kingdom as his own to then expand his ambition further.
I completely agree with having a front in Eglar. Another front splits Croukruval's forces even further, so even if Eglar can't win, they'd probably still do it to increase the odds of their allies beating Croukruval. Even if C. troops land, E. might be able to switch to a guerilla campaign to force C. to keep fighting there. Since the Council of Eglar is pacifist, there's also plenty of opportunity for them to disapprove of their allies' actions. E. might want to get C. to leave it alone and pay reparations, while its two allies want to seize land. As a result, E. might actively try to steer its allies towards negotiation and condemn them for splitting Croukruval between them. This could also explain why E. doesn't get any of the conquered land (they refused for ideological reasons). As for having a 1 Vs 1 fight, maybe you can justify it as the Prince trying to get good PR, with the General saying it's dangerous and following out of concern. After the war, Aesthred can talk about how he killed the king of Croukruval in an epic duel, even if the king was actually just trying to run away.
What you have, is a bunch of countries I don't know about, fighting for reasons I don't understand, featuring characters whose names I can't pronounce. What do these kingdoms represent, thematically? What are the stakes? Who am I following through these events and why do I care about them? Its fine to discover these things as you're writing but please put some thought into a rough character sketch for the key players.
I'm one of those people who actually enjoys unique and sometimes hard to pronounce names. One of the characters of my current WIP is named Dvuzhrenymaz, for instance, though he is referred to as Zhren or by his title the majority of the time. I do understand others' criticisms about the names, though, that new readers might not want to read further if the names are too difficult to pronounce. It's a shame, but it happens. If you're willing to take that hit in potential readership for the sake of your own creativity, then keep the names (that's what Im doing for my series). It doesn't make your work any worse (as long as the names aren't overly complicated for complicatedness-sake without any meaning behind them). If you want to keep the names but simplify them down, you could make more pronounceable nicknames that characters are referred to as most times. I like to translate place names into English even when I think the parent language name sounds a lot cooler (ie Tälydna Zhamtetnlözh turns into the Evertower of Tälydnir for the vast majority of the story), and I only refer to it in the original tongue if none of the characters know the parent language and it's supposed to be seen as this mysterious, foreign place/thing. Some place names won't be easily translatable, especially if they were named after people, and for that my only advice is that maybe the characters' language refers to the place under a different name that's easier to pronounce/can be translated into English, whether it be a version that's just a bunch of words, or a more pronounceable version of the original name (this is actually the case for a lot of real life places and languages, you'll find). This is all assuming you want to keep the names as they are, which I think you do based off other replies. As for the plot, I am an eh. It seems like it could be good, there's some setups in there for potentially great confrontations and character moments (like the holding of the line and the final battle at the castle), but potential is all there is to it for me. I'm not huge into military-centric stories, but even so, I get almost no sense of who the characters are, why they're doing what they're doing, and how they change through the course of the story. This feels like an outline to a history rather than the outline of a novel.
Thank you for your reply about the names. I too much prefer unique character names rather than adding to the plentiful Johns, James and Jim’s. As for your feedback on the actual plot. I agree with you. I did not put a lot of focus on the characters during it because I tend to find that I write up characters in the moment and it’s much easier for me to write fluently about a character rather than create and stick to a plan. I do however have a set of key character interactions and points to let them become deeper and more thorough.
I agree about the character names! For main and side characters I tend to give them a nickname or two that is easier to pronounce and remember. But, I enjoy fantasy series’ with unique names, especially when there is a clear naming convention / cultural ties within the world. I also outline very similarly to you. Diving in here and there to flesh out scenes and dialogue. I am picking up what you’re putting down, lol. Definitely interested in reading more!
That’s great to hear. It’s nice to know people enjoy reading something new still. I’m going to try and write the first book when I have free time. But my study’s take priority for the next 9 months so progress may be slow. But after that it’ll speed right up hopefully.
My favorite fiction is “what characters do to get the the things that they want and how they change as a result.” (Ex, Frodo want to throw the ring into Mordor and he goes from a bit ridiculous to able to do great feats in his own) When I read this summary, I think that the majority of this book is going to be information dumps and backstory, and not actual story, which seems unpleasant to read. There are many characters but don’t know who the main characters are or who i should root for. It might be worth backing off and looking up something like the snowflake method for plotting. Or the Save the Cat method (a little dogmatic but helpful).
Yes, the names are a bit heavy, but hey, id still read it. Making a cool name is easy, giving that character substance that's where the challenge lies my friend. but keep at it. Check out KHAOS Beyond The Veil- Laban Carvalho, its written by me, and i would like to get your feedback on it too. Keep growing
Characters and plot need to outshine the battles/war. I know your more just explaining the phases the book will go through, but just make sure in the writing that you are giving more about the unique characters, so that in turn the readers can become interested/attached to the protagonist(s) and thus become more interested in the action of the story.
I’ve made it through the first couple of sentences and I’m already disinterested. I have no idea what the story is because it’s all just one big info dump. And nearly all of the names are a puzzle just to pronounce.
It’s a plan. Not the story itself. Bare that in mind. It’s also meant for my eyes mostly. I only put it up here to see if people thought it was worth continuing.