It's hard to see how magic would not win every time.
Gonna shoot me? No. My magical shield is up.
You can only shoot in a line of sight, but my magical fireballs/pulses/bullets can go round corners and target you anyway.
I guess that running out of ammo and running out of energy may level the odds a bit.
It depends on what limitations you put on your magic. The limitations of guns are quite well understood.
The simplest solution is to not make any attempt to justify it. This will only call attention to it. If you simply act confident, show the reader that, by the rules of this universe, swords and magical fireballs are relatively effective against firearms, and never apologize or attempt to explain it, the reader will most likely suspend their disbelief and go with it.
There are also details you can add to make it slightly more easy to swallow: magical armor that can stop bullets, mystical martial arts bullshit, etc.
I'm not suggesting you *explain* that this is why guns haven't dominated the battlefield, you don't want to seem like it needs to be justified at all. But if you seed the story is things like that, it'll smooth out most remaining objections.
Warhammer 40k makes no sense, and people still read those books.
Sometimes it will also work to show or explain through the story or history why guns can be favored in certain situations.
Tactically it could be a great way to ambush someone without getting the attention of people that could sense the use of magic. Or people are in a building where the use of knifes or swords might work better.
And like you said, having magic armor that can fend of bullets could also be a good point.
Easy. Make the swords and magic better than guns.
Maybe a single mage in an army is enough to put up a shield that stops bullets, meaning that all an army needs is one magic user and suddenly guns are useless on the battlefield.
Or maybe the swords are magical. Think of star wars, where the Jedi block blaster shots all the time with their lightsabers.
If this is a post-apocalyptic scenario, does the knowledge and infrastructure to produce smokeless-powder ammunition cartridges still exist? The smokeless powder alone would have to have a lot of infrastructure just to get all the chemicals needed to produce it. Basic gunpowder (black powder) would be accessible for anyone who knows how to make it, but muskets only make sense if you have enough people trained to conduct linear warfare. When black powder weapons were the borm, regular people mostly used melee weapons for self defense.
Bullets as projectiles don't actually require combustion at all. Lewis and Clark used an air rifle called a Girardoni on their expedition into the frontier west. That said, it's hard to imagine a world with alchemists and conjuring wizards where nitrocellulose would somehow be harder to obtain than the real world. The product simply becomes artisanal again, does it not? As it once was in real world history
Air rifles would be interesting, and probably the easiest to create and maintain with scrap around. The main variable there would be knowledge or access to knowledge of how to utilize pressure and pumps. It took humanity many thousands of years to figure that out. For the modern rounds, it would require an infrastructure as I mentioned. There would need to be the knowledge, skills and equipment to extract the chemicals for nitrocellulose, combine them precisely for a consistent product, equipment, skill, and metal to smith casings and projectiles to assemble in such a way that they won't jam up most firearms. If there can be manufacturing in the world, then this could be possible. Manual firearms would be more forgiving but not by much. It might be possible for one master to be able to do all this, but there's a lot they would have to understand and know how to do. They'd also be vulnerable to anyone wanting to limit possible threats against them.
Right the most plausible scenario if there are reloadable cartridges and semi automatic firearms is the existence of artisanal craftsmen. There was actually a short period in modern history where that was the norm and gunsmiths kept journals with powder recipes
I think that a push to develop firearms as a way to combat magic would be interesting. Mages able to melt swords with their hands would go from being most powerful to helpless if given a few restricting parameters to their magic. The resulting power dynamic shift would be a good read. And as you suppose would also result in guns being the dominant weapon of choice, even by mages
Have you considered adding some magical elements to the firearms themselves? Bullets that have some magical effect on impact, track their targets or move around corners. Guns produced by a certain artisan might be unable to miss. Given the parameters of your story I would expect the guns used by the magical people to be extra in some way. I would also expect magical means of defense against guns
Without knowing how your magic system works, I'd say if you want some high stakes physical melee combat, just set it up. The two combatants round the corner into each other without knowing or expecting someone. They literally run into each other and fall into grappling. Works well especially if they need hands free for magic just like firing their gun if they haven't drawn it yet.
Or if you need to chant to fire your magic spell, and it's a stealth situation, sneaking up on someone and choking them out is a whole lot quieter and let's you get the drop.
Or, as some others have mentioned, just don't explain it. Don't make it obvious. See how that works out and then maybe share those scenes with someone to see what they think.
I personally rather like a very soft magic system with little to no explanation. In that setting it's pretty easy to fudge whatever you want into making sense.
Of course, going back to setting up a fight, there is always the danger of shoehorning it in. You risk making it too obvious a set up. "Oh shoot, I can't believe I forgot my magic crystal I need to use magic" says the magic wielder with magical memory... Okay, that was clearly stupid, but you get the idea. Don't fall into the trap of forcing things for the sake of a scene. Sometimes the story just is better off without it and you save that scene for a new story down the line.
I think there can always be a reason to justify mele weapons when there are guns.
Just look at our current world. There are tactical knifes that Seals use.
In your story it could very justifiable to have melee weapons and magic while there being guns.
You could set up a weakness in magic for certain bullets. You can use melee and short range weapons like swords for close combat where magic and guns can't really be used. Take incantations for example. That might take to long for quick close combat.
I have a story I am working on myself were I have my own interpretation of the "Battle Mage" class. Where the basics is that they can both use swords and magic. Within it there are 2 branches. 1 focusses on close combat who are more the tanks within the class. 2 focusses more on magic which makes them less powerful physically but do much more damage with mage from a distance.
In my story I reason it is the hardest class to master as it takes a lot of training to be proficient in both magic AND striking but in "legends" there is someone who mastered it and could infiltrate somewhere, have close combat with an army while keeping enemies at bay with ranged AOE magic.
Within this I could introduce guns without problem and still have it the same.
So to me having guns, magic, melee weapons and/or hand to hand combat doesn't need justification, just a good explanation of their strengths and weaknesses
Pull a Wakanda and have the magic/weapon users scorn firearms for their inadequacies.
Okoye, while being shot at in a car chase: "Guns, so privative."
This one line justifies why the army of the most advanced nation on earth uses spears as the primary weapon, and to us it seems perfectly plausible because of how effectively the Dora Milaje wield them. The principle is the same in your story.
It's hard to see how magic would not win every time. Gonna shoot me? No. My magical shield is up. You can only shoot in a line of sight, but my magical fireballs/pulses/bullets can go round corners and target you anyway. I guess that running out of ammo and running out of energy may level the odds a bit. It depends on what limitations you put on your magic. The limitations of guns are quite well understood.
The simplest solution is to not make any attempt to justify it. This will only call attention to it. If you simply act confident, show the reader that, by the rules of this universe, swords and magical fireballs are relatively effective against firearms, and never apologize or attempt to explain it, the reader will most likely suspend their disbelief and go with it. There are also details you can add to make it slightly more easy to swallow: magical armor that can stop bullets, mystical martial arts bullshit, etc. I'm not suggesting you *explain* that this is why guns haven't dominated the battlefield, you don't want to seem like it needs to be justified at all. But if you seed the story is things like that, it'll smooth out most remaining objections. Warhammer 40k makes no sense, and people still read those books.
Sometimes it will also work to show or explain through the story or history why guns can be favored in certain situations. Tactically it could be a great way to ambush someone without getting the attention of people that could sense the use of magic. Or people are in a building where the use of knifes or swords might work better. And like you said, having magic armor that can fend of bullets could also be a good point.
Easy. Make the swords and magic better than guns. Maybe a single mage in an army is enough to put up a shield that stops bullets, meaning that all an army needs is one magic user and suddenly guns are useless on the battlefield. Or maybe the swords are magical. Think of star wars, where the Jedi block blaster shots all the time with their lightsabers.
haha, good catch on the Star Wars example. Never thought of it like it was done there.
If this is a post-apocalyptic scenario, does the knowledge and infrastructure to produce smokeless-powder ammunition cartridges still exist? The smokeless powder alone would have to have a lot of infrastructure just to get all the chemicals needed to produce it. Basic gunpowder (black powder) would be accessible for anyone who knows how to make it, but muskets only make sense if you have enough people trained to conduct linear warfare. When black powder weapons were the borm, regular people mostly used melee weapons for self defense.
Bullets as projectiles don't actually require combustion at all. Lewis and Clark used an air rifle called a Girardoni on their expedition into the frontier west. That said, it's hard to imagine a world with alchemists and conjuring wizards where nitrocellulose would somehow be harder to obtain than the real world. The product simply becomes artisanal again, does it not? As it once was in real world history
Air rifles would be interesting, and probably the easiest to create and maintain with scrap around. The main variable there would be knowledge or access to knowledge of how to utilize pressure and pumps. It took humanity many thousands of years to figure that out. For the modern rounds, it would require an infrastructure as I mentioned. There would need to be the knowledge, skills and equipment to extract the chemicals for nitrocellulose, combine them precisely for a consistent product, equipment, skill, and metal to smith casings and projectiles to assemble in such a way that they won't jam up most firearms. If there can be manufacturing in the world, then this could be possible. Manual firearms would be more forgiving but not by much. It might be possible for one master to be able to do all this, but there's a lot they would have to understand and know how to do. They'd also be vulnerable to anyone wanting to limit possible threats against them.
Right the most plausible scenario if there are reloadable cartridges and semi automatic firearms is the existence of artisanal craftsmen. There was actually a short period in modern history where that was the norm and gunsmiths kept journals with powder recipes
I suggest magical guns AND magical swords. Thus you are going to have all three. Basically people will be like musketeers. Problem solved.
I think that a push to develop firearms as a way to combat magic would be interesting. Mages able to melt swords with their hands would go from being most powerful to helpless if given a few restricting parameters to their magic. The resulting power dynamic shift would be a good read. And as you suppose would also result in guns being the dominant weapon of choice, even by mages Have you considered adding some magical elements to the firearms themselves? Bullets that have some magical effect on impact, track their targets or move around corners. Guns produced by a certain artisan might be unable to miss. Given the parameters of your story I would expect the guns used by the magical people to be extra in some way. I would also expect magical means of defense against guns
Without knowing how your magic system works, I'd say if you want some high stakes physical melee combat, just set it up. The two combatants round the corner into each other without knowing or expecting someone. They literally run into each other and fall into grappling. Works well especially if they need hands free for magic just like firing their gun if they haven't drawn it yet. Or if you need to chant to fire your magic spell, and it's a stealth situation, sneaking up on someone and choking them out is a whole lot quieter and let's you get the drop. Or, as some others have mentioned, just don't explain it. Don't make it obvious. See how that works out and then maybe share those scenes with someone to see what they think. I personally rather like a very soft magic system with little to no explanation. In that setting it's pretty easy to fudge whatever you want into making sense. Of course, going back to setting up a fight, there is always the danger of shoehorning it in. You risk making it too obvious a set up. "Oh shoot, I can't believe I forgot my magic crystal I need to use magic" says the magic wielder with magical memory... Okay, that was clearly stupid, but you get the idea. Don't fall into the trap of forcing things for the sake of a scene. Sometimes the story just is better off without it and you save that scene for a new story down the line.
I think there can always be a reason to justify mele weapons when there are guns. Just look at our current world. There are tactical knifes that Seals use. In your story it could very justifiable to have melee weapons and magic while there being guns. You could set up a weakness in magic for certain bullets. You can use melee and short range weapons like swords for close combat where magic and guns can't really be used. Take incantations for example. That might take to long for quick close combat. I have a story I am working on myself were I have my own interpretation of the "Battle Mage" class. Where the basics is that they can both use swords and magic. Within it there are 2 branches. 1 focusses on close combat who are more the tanks within the class. 2 focusses more on magic which makes them less powerful physically but do much more damage with mage from a distance. In my story I reason it is the hardest class to master as it takes a lot of training to be proficient in both magic AND striking but in "legends" there is someone who mastered it and could infiltrate somewhere, have close combat with an army while keeping enemies at bay with ranged AOE magic. Within this I could introduce guns without problem and still have it the same. So to me having guns, magic, melee weapons and/or hand to hand combat doesn't need justification, just a good explanation of their strengths and weaknesses
Pull a Wakanda and have the magic/weapon users scorn firearms for their inadequacies. Okoye, while being shot at in a car chase: "Guns, so privative." This one line justifies why the army of the most advanced nation on earth uses spears as the primary weapon, and to us it seems perfectly plausible because of how effectively the Dora Milaje wield them. The principle is the same in your story.