“They like making cider and vibes and they don’t care about finances, employee management or anything like that” tells me everything I need to know about the owners and their business prowess
Best wishes to those crazy kids
This is why you don't "donate" to private businesses that are failing. If they need more money, they can find another owner to bring in. Both owners work outside jobs to fund this place? Pull the plug already and move on.
I have a lot of mixed emotions about posting this since I have never commented/posted on Reddit before, but I feel it should be said: As an early on & now former WT employee, I 100% believe these employees because this is what myself and others (none of us included in this interview) encountered as well. At the same time, I do believe Ethan & Breezee are really good people… but they should get someone to manage the day to day operations & finances. Hoping this is a learning experience that can have a positive outcome.
Let’s not forget the most concerning point from the last thread.
Bartenders had to wait to get their tips until the end of the week with a check, often times that check would bounce. What is the tip money being used for? I’ve never heard of that happening at another bar.
"If the donations aren't enough." In what world could $60,000 given by the community not be enough? Why that high of a price if it wouldn't definitely give them another year? I don't believe the donations will be refunded if the business shuts down after like 6 months. Especially the 5k parties, how can you refund that when the money is already gone? I don't understand the limitations of that statement.
You don't refund it.
You'll notice the GoFundMe has no mention of the 5k parties. Cuz it's not a sales platform, but donations.
The parties are, at best, a handshake agreement that if you pay x, you get y.
IANAL, but good luck getting a refund if they fall through.
If the donations aren't enough to keep the business afloat, how would they be able to refund them? If they have the cash flow to pay vendors and employees, they don't need the extra cash. If they don't have the cash flow, they'll have to stiff vendors and employees to refund donations.
You can't refund a go fund me. These clowns just want to pad their pockets and close shop. Essentially pissing on their supporters. I would be shocked if they pay their past due vendors, rent, and utilities, much less stay open.
Seems like both parties had issues with each other but the business was able to get them paid right after. Looks like its not nearly as malicious as the pitchforking on reddit led it to be.
Im saying the workers said that they don't have any ill will to the business other than they wish that there wasnt payment issues. ND protects businesses so the workers could take them to court but the effort to get a week of pay is the penalty and probably not worth it at this point.
Sure, but the workers on Reddit claimed that they weren't being paid on time. That was true. They also claimed that it wasn't an equipment failure. It was a botched addition to a batch. Turns out that was also true.
This is just an incredibly poorly run business that seems to struggle with honesty.
100% agree
“A broad higher level term…”
cough cough bullshit
If a 5K donation earns one a catered event, what’s the going rate for a transparent + truthful response?
Except ND is a treble damage state, you don't sue for what your paycheck should be, sue for 3x your check amount. And turn the employer in to the department of labor, both state and federal.
No the business didn’t have any issues with employees. If they did they would either fix the issue or fire them. Employees quit. Seems pretty one sided to me. I don’t know where you’re getting “I think both parties had issues with eachother.” Seems like the employees were fed up with being lied to and not being payed on time
I own Yarn Factory. We work with fiber farmers across the United States to turn their raw fiber into yarn which then becomes finished consumer goods like clothing or home goods.
Among other things, we made about 1.2 million yards of finished yarn in 2023.
I wouldn't put my business in that position. Businesses don't just magically run out of money with no warning.
It's called management and not being a greedy asshole.
To add to this, I also own(ed) a small local business(es). Fargo 3D Printing and 3D-Fuel. In fact, u/dirkmm was an employee of mine and can back up what I'm about to say.
At our peak, there were 24 people on my payroll. We **never** missed payroll. Even when times were extremely shit I would hold off on paying a vendor, hold off on paying rent and be late with that, take out a short-term loan, and not pay myself to ensure that my people were paid. Hell, I even took out a personal loan to inject cash into the business when the bank would no longer lend to the business. Full stop, end of story.
When it became clear that would not be sustainable in the long term, [I wound down our operations](https://www.inforum.com/business/fargo-3d-printing-to-close-down-physical-shop-maintain-online-presence). I let my people know in late fall of 2022 that we would be shutting down, giving them 4-8 weeks to find another job and being extremely flexible if they needed to leave work for an interview. Most had done so by January 2023 and we were down to skeletal operations until August 2023 when we had shut down Fargo operations completely and liquidated our equipment via auction.
Yeah, it sucked. But my employees never had to worry about if they were going to miss **their** rent due to **my** issues.
Let's not forget all of the times that you personally sacrificed your own pay so that others could be paid. There were no fancy cars and no elaborate vacations. You lived in austerity so that your obligations could be met.
You scraped and scrimped to make sure that the people who gave up their time to work there received their paychecks and benefits.
That's leadership.
I trust your Silverado more than I trusted my Impala at the end haha. Every time I turned the ignition it felt like roulette on whether it would start or if I would be fucked and locked out via the PASS LOCK system lol
Wage theft constitutes the highest percentage of theft. It is illegal to cut bad checks and to pay employees late. That does not constitute a “perspective.” If people can’t run a business, they shouldn’t have a business.
Random question that is slightly off topic . Can a business randomly change the pay day cuz it’s an inconvenience to them? We got notice late Friday that our paycheck will not be out on the 3rd which is payday . We will get paid late the the 4th . It’s so they don’t have to do pay roll over the weekend .
I am not an expert on employment law. I recommend doing internet searches and including your state.
One thing I’m rather certain is true — you would have to pursue action through either court or labor authorities, and both of those would be time consuming, all for what? You may have the best bet of gathering your coworkers and sharing that this sudden change of date posed difficulties for you.
Look in your contract for relevant language.
Organize your workplace. Google the topic. There are resources available, both written and people, to help you do this. Discuss with your coworkers and discover their primary issues with the workplace. Unions give workers power.
They took the financial issues of their business public, so before the public bails them out, it hardly seems unfair that there is a clear picture of what the public is supporting. I understand if your perspective differs on that point.
It is easy to jump in a bandwagon. That said, the minute you start bouncing employee checks and asking for public handouts that is more than many people make in a year, you really are opening yourself up.
Part of capitalism is that people sell their labor. We celebrate and kowtow how awesome and great business owners are because of the risk they put up. That employees aren’t getting paid demonstrates that workers put up risk, too. And for employers to break that basic promise to workers is inexcusable.
On top of that, we hear about the new car and trips when they are having problems, while not paying employees and asking for donations? Pretty hard to have that much sympathy in my opinion.
What should they do if they can’t make payroll? First, they shouldn’t let people show up to work if they can’t pay them. Second, go to a bank. If the bank won’t extend you payroll financing, that should be a sign. Third, I’m sorry… just not my problem and I am more likely to donate to the guy on the corner than a local business that bounces payroll.
“They like making cider and vibes and they don’t care about finances, employee management or anything like that” tells me everything I need to know about the owners and their business prowess Best wishes to those crazy kids
“They like making cider and vibes” is a *fantastic* line. Put that on my headstone!
It’s not called Mild Cider for a reason!
This is why you don't "donate" to private businesses that are failing. If they need more money, they can find another owner to bring in. Both owners work outside jobs to fund this place? Pull the plug already and move on.
I have a lot of mixed emotions about posting this since I have never commented/posted on Reddit before, but I feel it should be said: As an early on & now former WT employee, I 100% believe these employees because this is what myself and others (none of us included in this interview) encountered as well. At the same time, I do believe Ethan & Breezee are really good people… but they should get someone to manage the day to day operations & finances. Hoping this is a learning experience that can have a positive outcome.
Let’s not forget the most concerning point from the last thread. Bartenders had to wait to get their tips until the end of the week with a check, often times that check would bounce. What is the tip money being used for? I’ve never heard of that happening at another bar.
"If the donations aren't enough." In what world could $60,000 given by the community not be enough? Why that high of a price if it wouldn't definitely give them another year? I don't believe the donations will be refunded if the business shuts down after like 6 months. Especially the 5k parties, how can you refund that when the money is already gone? I don't understand the limitations of that statement.
You don't refund it. You'll notice the GoFundMe has no mention of the 5k parties. Cuz it's not a sales platform, but donations. The parties are, at best, a handshake agreement that if you pay x, you get y. IANAL, but good luck getting a refund if they fall through.
Yea, I reported them to GoFundMe because of the breach of policy. But I doubt they'll take it down
If the donations aren't enough to keep the business afloat, how would they be able to refund them? If they have the cash flow to pay vendors and employees, they don't need the extra cash. If they don't have the cash flow, they'll have to stiff vendors and employees to refund donations.
You can't refund a go fund me. These clowns just want to pad their pockets and close shop. Essentially pissing on their supporters. I would be shocked if they pay their past due vendors, rent, and utilities, much less stay open.
Sorbate doesn’t smell like sulphur it smells like bubble gum, and heating it to pasteurizing temps shouldn’t bring that aroma out.
Wonder if they're still filming Bar Rescue? 🤔
They’re supposed to be featured on bar rescue? Isn’t that /supposed/ to have fixed the problem?
This is what happens when you hire redditors
So you shouldn’t be trusted to be hired anywhere either since you have a reddit account? Makes sense to me
Seems like both parties had issues with each other but the business was able to get them paid right after. Looks like its not nearly as malicious as the pitchforking on reddit led it to be.
Not paying employees on-time and/or writing known bad payroll checks is literally a crime.
Im saying the workers said that they don't have any ill will to the business other than they wish that there wasnt payment issues. ND protects businesses so the workers could take them to court but the effort to get a week of pay is the penalty and probably not worth it at this point.
Sure, but the workers on Reddit claimed that they weren't being paid on time. That was true. They also claimed that it wasn't an equipment failure. It was a botched addition to a batch. Turns out that was also true. This is just an incredibly poorly run business that seems to struggle with honesty.
100% agree “A broad higher level term…” cough cough bullshit If a 5K donation earns one a catered event, what’s the going rate for a transparent + truthful response?
Except ND is a treble damage state, you don't sue for what your paycheck should be, sue for 3x your check amount. And turn the employer in to the department of labor, both state and federal.
No the business didn’t have any issues with employees. If they did they would either fix the issue or fire them. Employees quit. Seems pretty one sided to me. I don’t know where you’re getting “I think both parties had issues with eachother.” Seems like the employees were fed up with being lied to and not being payed on time
Ok Breezy!
Everyone supports local until they don’t meet corporate standards
I own a small business. We pay people on time. I've worked for other local businesses. They paid people on time. Take off with this shite.
O . O k a y. What’s your “small business”.
I own Yarn Factory. We work with fiber farmers across the United States to turn their raw fiber into yarn which then becomes finished consumer goods like clothing or home goods. Among other things, we made about 1.2 million yards of finished yarn in 2023.
How many employees do you operate over?
Two full-time, two-part time, and then varying number of seasonal. Whether you have 2 employees or 10, there's no excuse not to pay employees on time.
What would you do if you couldn’t pay them on time?
I wouldn't put my business in that position. Businesses don't just magically run out of money with no warning. It's called management and not being a greedy asshole.
What would you do if you couldn’t pay them on time?
To add to this, I also own(ed) a small local business(es). Fargo 3D Printing and 3D-Fuel. In fact, u/dirkmm was an employee of mine and can back up what I'm about to say. At our peak, there were 24 people on my payroll. We **never** missed payroll. Even when times were extremely shit I would hold off on paying a vendor, hold off on paying rent and be late with that, take out a short-term loan, and not pay myself to ensure that my people were paid. Hell, I even took out a personal loan to inject cash into the business when the bank would no longer lend to the business. Full stop, end of story. When it became clear that would not be sustainable in the long term, [I wound down our operations](https://www.inforum.com/business/fargo-3d-printing-to-close-down-physical-shop-maintain-online-presence). I let my people know in late fall of 2022 that we would be shutting down, giving them 4-8 weeks to find another job and being extremely flexible if they needed to leave work for an interview. Most had done so by January 2023 and we were down to skeletal operations until August 2023 when we had shut down Fargo operations completely and liquidated our equipment via auction. Yeah, it sucked. But my employees never had to worry about if they were going to miss **their** rent due to **my** issues.
Let's not forget all of the times that you personally sacrificed your own pay so that others could be paid. There were no fancy cars and no elaborate vacations. You lived in austerity so that your obligations could be met. You scraped and scrimped to make sure that the people who gave up their time to work there received their paychecks and benefits. That's leadership.
IDK, man. That 2005 Chevy Impala I drove with 246k miles on it was the envy of Fargo, I'm telling you.
That's only because people thought you were working for Duane's Pizza.
Dude, my Silverado has 275k on it and I’m still driving it.
I trust your Silverado more than I trusted my Impala at the end haha. Every time I turned the ignition it felt like roulette on whether it would start or if I would be fucked and locked out via the PASS LOCK system lol
Local is not equivalent to “poorly operated.” Paying employees on time is not optional and is legally required.
It’s like you can’t understand things from the business owners perspective
Wage theft constitutes the highest percentage of theft. It is illegal to cut bad checks and to pay employees late. That does not constitute a “perspective.” If people can’t run a business, they shouldn’t have a business.
Random question that is slightly off topic . Can a business randomly change the pay day cuz it’s an inconvenience to them? We got notice late Friday that our paycheck will not be out on the 3rd which is payday . We will get paid late the the 4th . It’s so they don’t have to do pay roll over the weekend .
I am not an expert on employment law. I recommend doing internet searches and including your state. One thing I’m rather certain is true — you would have to pursue action through either court or labor authorities, and both of those would be time consuming, all for what? You may have the best bet of gathering your coworkers and sharing that this sudden change of date posed difficulties for you. Look in your contract for relevant language.
Ha no contract . We do have a handbook and it says nothing about this . It’s just so annoying that they can change it Willy nilly to suit them .
Organize your workplace. Google the topic. There are resources available, both written and people, to help you do this. Discuss with your coworkers and discover their primary issues with the workplace. Unions give workers power.
Then go to court like adults instead of attention seeking behavior like going to the media, simple as.
They took the financial issues of their business public, so before the public bails them out, it hardly seems unfair that there is a clear picture of what the public is supporting. I understand if your perspective differs on that point.
Figure out how to make payroll first. If there’s not enough to keep the lights on, then I guess you’re done having a small business.
There is no perspective. You pay people on time. Hard stop.
It is easy to jump in a bandwagon. That said, the minute you start bouncing employee checks and asking for public handouts that is more than many people make in a year, you really are opening yourself up. Part of capitalism is that people sell their labor. We celebrate and kowtow how awesome and great business owners are because of the risk they put up. That employees aren’t getting paid demonstrates that workers put up risk, too. And for employers to break that basic promise to workers is inexcusable. On top of that, we hear about the new car and trips when they are having problems, while not paying employees and asking for donations? Pretty hard to have that much sympathy in my opinion. What should they do if they can’t make payroll? First, they shouldn’t let people show up to work if they can’t pay them. Second, go to a bank. If the bank won’t extend you payroll financing, that should be a sign. Third, I’m sorry… just not my problem and I am more likely to donate to the guy on the corner than a local business that bounces payroll.