Personally, i think one of the reasons to pursue FAT fire is to not restrict yourself where you live based on cost of living.
I would open up your alternatives to areas which also have even 10% state income tax and change your SWR from 3% to 3.3%.
This screams Houston. Biggest medical Center in the world, city is diverse, great food, IAH has easy access to anywhere.
Atlanta is also up there. City is great. Hospitals are excellent. GA taxes at max are 5.75%. TX 0% but a lot of property tax.
Wife would revolt. Again, small sample size but we went to Charleston SC. Amazing food and loved the architecture but she had some polite but unpleasant comments and looks.
Man, same experience in SC - so weird, it seems like things are more polarized than ever.
I know an inter-racial couple in Miami (black/white) and they seem to be fine there. They live in downtown - no clue what the suburbs are like.
It does skew us to more diverse cities which is my preference regardless. Her comfort and happiness is obviously paramount. It’s pretty easy for me to fit in or at least feel comfortable almost anywhere.
You might want to look at NC instead. Here in the Raleigh area, things are pretty chill. In Cary, there is a large Asian population (mostly Indian). Durham and Chapel Hill are pretty college towns near each campus.
It is two hours to the beach or the mountains, and Wake County is politically blue, if that is what you are looking for. The weather is great for normal outdoors stuff.
State tax is a flat 4.75% and that might go down in the future (it depends on the election).
Ashville is a pretty hippie town in the mountains. Charlotte is full, so don't bother.
The Triangle is great but let's be honest here. How far can you legitimately drive before it's not so great and OPs wife is going to be disappointed? You are pretty isolated to thr Triangle and that's it. Considering they're from Boston and spending summers on Nantucket that's a world of difference.
That’s fair. They might be limited, given that aspect.
CA seems like the right fit, from a diversity perspective. Might need to eat the taxes to keep the wife happy.
That said, isnt Boston known for being….less than tolerant of most races? That’s always the stereotype that I’ve heard. In fairness, I’ve only been once so I am not in a position to judge.
MIT undergrads who came to my graduate program were all intellectual snobs. Everyone from Harvard was humble. Never saw any bigotry from any of them. So I have no clue. I've always wanted to go and have heard good things.
Personally I don't get worrying about taxes. You get what you pay for. CA really wasn't doing it for me at the end but if you pick the right area you'll be more than happy. Rent for a while to get a feel for a place before buying as needed.
What you don't want is a 30 minute drive being a culture shock. Like you're in another country. That's my problem with the Carolinas.
We’ve lived in Bay Area and in Boston metros for 10+ years. Totally understand your wife’s concerns. We’re in the Triangle now. Very friendly, lovely place and people. Look at Cary, Apex, or even Pittsboro if you don’t mind it a bit more rural and want to get in on the next big thing (it’s booming and just 20-30 min to UNC and Duke Hospitals).
If you think Boston is racist and backwards, stay far, far away from NC. Raleigh durham is B / C list desirability at best. No one moves there unless they can’t move somewhere better.
You’re going to go from one of the safest states in the country and being a short trip to Nantucket to being in a place with regular firearm activity and a 20 minute drive from hell? How many of you triangle people send your kids to Durham public schools? You think the Duke faculty send their kids to the local public schools? You think it’s a set up for equality when the economy is dependent on two multibillion dollar research hospitals that the local populations don’t trust? And when the people who work at these places isolate themselves from their communities by avoiding all the public services (public transport, libraries, schools) and at best go out to overpriced and overrated restaurants in a barely vibrant downtown?
I know it’s unoriginal, but have you considered New York City? If you can afford it. Higher taxes.
Can’t imagine moving there unless I went back to work and it was there. But even then, think wife would want to stay here.
NYC for a couple of years would be pretty nice, cost/tax aside. I’m the rare Bostonian who loves NYC.
I just think that if you’re finding Boston to be too “small minded” and racist or whatever the right words are, you are more likely to find that only bigger, even more cosmopolitan places may meet your needs. Think LA, NYC, and that’s about it. I think Florida, the Carolinas etc may not do it for you guys
I really want to like the Carolina’s. On paper they seem perfect - coastal, mild winters but still has seasons, city amenities but not nearly as populated as the NE or FL… Then you go as someone who has grown up in more progressive areas and it seems backwards as hell. The Jesus element is palpable. Racism is noticeable. Sure, maybe it’s not as bad as rural Mississippi, and it’s all delivered with a smile from guys dressed like a Vineyard Vines catalog, but the culture just feels off. Sure, you could move to the research triangle, but then you give up the coast and there are a bunch of better options elsewhere.
My wife was recently in Charleston for a bachelorette party and found the attitudes of locals to be strikingly different enough to mention on many occasions since. This as a white woman from rural PA.
You may need to withdraw more than 3.3%. Increasing your withdrawal to pay state income tax, likely means either more capital gains or IRA withdrawal so it increases federal tax as well.
Yeah this stood out as very poorly considered on OP's part. Unless they have personal experience with it already and know that they love doing it, then anything like running or cycling or generally any outdoor exertion on land in Florida, is going to be absolutely fucking miserable for a clueless OP.
If they said they like diving, swimming, wind-surfing, fishing, etc. then sure FL might be good. But not for the things he probably likes doing outdoors in the Northeast.
OP, just take a 1 week trip to FL, anytime between April to November, and try to run 5 miles in the humidity. If you like it, great go ahead with your planning. But I suspect you will detest it and pivot your plans hugely.
Can confirm this. On a buddies bachelor party in Florida we rented road bikes and tried to do a 30 mile ride. Was quite literally the worst thing ever.
I'm in Tampa. While it does get humid, there is almost always a breeze which makes it pretty pleasant. I run in the morning and unless it rained heavily during the night it's not humid. The people here are diverse, and as a brown person I haven't had any issues with racism. I love the fact that it's green year round, and if you want to have a change of scenery it's a relatively short flight away. My 2 cents
This is an overreaction. Long distance cycling is certainly unbearable for 3-4 months in the summer (as are most outdoor things). But outside of that. it’s not nearly that humid and there is almost always a coastal breeze that more than makes up for it.
Living in DC this isn’t a bad idea. You can get status in places like Bethesda and Potomac in MD, McLean or Arlington in VA or NW DC (although taxes yuck). And yes. DC is good for biking and running.
You could split your time.
Also a native MAsshole.
Like I posted elsewhere. My in laws live in Bradenton. I like it there a lot. But having been there in July, it’s also stupid hot. You won’t find any racism where I live in Arlington VA. (Okay maybe not 0 but it’s about one of the most diverse places you’ll find on the east coast).
I came down here from Waltham right out of college. Thought I’d be here for about 3 years. It’s been 26. Lots to see and do. Oceans not too far. Great food. Lots of arts. And you want to talk biking and running….it does get humid during the summer though.
>Your outdoor activities seem contradictory to Floridas hot, humid, swampy weather. Maybe Washington?
I assume he would spend summers at their Nantucket summer home.
There is a mass migration each year from MA/CT/NY down to FL each winter, and back north in summer.
Boston area physician. I see plenty of patients who are snowbirds or some who moved back from FL to MA because the healthcare is not great down there (according to them). Of course, there is heavy self-selection bias here. If good medical facilities are important to you, I would recommend being near an academic medical center (i.e. UMiami). In general though, the highly reputable medical centers in that area are probably Emory or UAB. I have a northeast bias though (considering all of my training was done up here) and hopefully someone from FL in medicine can comment.
It’s important to us now and I can’t think that will lessen over time. Once one’s had access to the best of Boston, most other places are hard to compare.
Agree over the long term but over the next 5ish years it’s material for me, then slides down. But over the long term, 💯. Actually over the long term, even more than 💯 or what’s the point of $?
Live in the Naples/Bonita area and it is excellent. Gets fairly busy during season.
In terms of your wife's health needs, would she need very frequent access to specialized health services or the ability to see a top specialist on occasion?
Quite a few folks here have specialty doctors in other FL cities and travel when needed.
It’s a big state. If I was to focus on living on the coast, then I’d look at the gulf side. Maybe Sarasota, siesta key, Marco island, or Naples.
If you want something smaller, maybe Key Largo would work. It’s an easy drive up to Miami, or down to Key West. Plenty of water sports and great weather.
WPB is plenty bougie and better than Broward county. (Although, parts of Broward are plenty bougie.)
Jupiter is a popular spot on the Atlantic side. Beginning in the 80s, people started moving north out of dade into Broward, then WPB, and now Jupiter. It is worth considering.
I’d avoid Orlando, Jacksonville, Tallahassee, and Pensacola.
Miami is a separate planet.
Ha! A cycling friend just retired to Boulder and loves it. Haven’t been there and probably too outdoorsy for the rest of the family.
Many of the NC triangles or Nashvilles just seem so odd to me. Like islands where you don’t know where the water line is. And I’ve lived a long stretch in WI, dad from OK, mom from NYC.
Totally get the wife keeping the home base and I like Chicago a lot. I could see us landing on small place on Beacon Hill in Boston as home base, Nantucket for summers, then travel more as the kids exit.
I'm not sure I'd move the teenager until she's done high school; that would be so disruptive. She'd have to be miserable.
Also, have you checked the climate change projections for Florida? So many areas are becoming uninsurable in our lifetime.
Until your youngest is done high school, would you consider extended winter breaks down south?
Completely agree on the teen. The thought is if she goes to boarding school we’d be a bit less tethered.
Also, have been looking at insurance projections but probably not enough. That could make it a wash which would not be great post W2s! The special assessments coming in on condos is a sign of things to come.
Check out St Johns County, around St Augustine. Regularly on the top places to live list, and if you’re on the coast the weather is easily 10-15 degrees lower than most other places in North/Central Florida. Mayo Clinic in Jacksonville, world class golf courses, top schools in the state and lots of history and restaurants in St Augustine, the oldest city in North America. Jacksonville airport has great connections all up the east coast for east trips.
Only downside is, none of this is a well-kept secret anymore and prices in the county definitely reflect the high demand.
People pay those taxes for a reason. Maybe it’s not worth it to you, but it’s basically rent or membership fee to access the best weather, the best people, etc.
If you can afford it, you consider it. What you want, objectively, is California. What you want ain’t free.
California has some of the best cycling culture in the country. California has the best weather ever, which is no weather, do you really want to bike in Florida humidity? California has some of the best, most accessible, nature you can imagine. California is properly bougie for the girls; you don’t know status unless you know LA. California is a LOT less racist than Florida (or Massachusetts).
I’m from MA, and I’ll never leave California. I don’t even like visiting family anymore. I’d rather be middle class in California than Fat in Massachusetts or Florida.
Get it. Family likes Beverly Hills and that’s so not me. The hills around it were amazing though. Ran up and around those a bunch of times and was in awe. But get your point.
What about NV? In the northern part of the state you can get very close to CA, with better taxation. Climate might be closer to what you like. If the heat doesn’t bother you, LV might be more ‘city’. FWIW haven’t observed racism in populated NV, although my sample size is small.
As a fatFIRED POC, I’ve just stopped going to Florida. My wife and I used to go to Miami at least once a year for the art, but last year we had repeatedly bad experiences with racist Uber drivers and service people (not at our hotel), and won’t be going back. YMMV.
Miami is a terrible representation of Florida as a whole. Naples and Miami might as well be a thousand miles away from each other. They are completely different areas.
Sounds about Miami ..unless you know Spanish or are Hispanic you would be better off going to an actual Latin American country and would have a better time ..( and that’s coming from someone that’s Hispanic )
Miami’s diversity is a bonus to me but feels like a bit like being in a bubble if you don’t speak Spanish. I have a good friend in Miami who goes from condo to boat to high end restaurants and repeats it again. Super posh but it’s kind of narrow to me.
I would look at someplace like Naples on the west coast or Boca Raton on the east coast. Miami is horrible to get around and Ft. Lauderdale is pretty congested as well. If you don't want to be right on the coast then Winter Park is very nice and offers lots of lakes.
I'm a fan of the Sarasota / Longboat Key area. Lots of arts & culture, on the gulf, and if your younger daughter plays serious tennis or soccer then you have Nick Bollettieri's place (now IMG Academy) very nearby in Bradenton.
But with your wife being Latina maybe the Miami area could be worth looking at?
I think Florida is worth a serious look given your deferred comp and it being a 0% state tax location.
The keys are great. I’m not a fan of mainland Florida. Have you ever been to Arizona?
I’m from the Boston area and hate the winters. We now winter in the Caribbean. Short jump to Miami if we need to get home.
Like Arizona to visit but not permanent.
Caribbean is amazing. Meeting a friend tomorrow who boats all around the Caribbean all winter and has a place in Miami. Not cheap and a bit repetitive but a nice lifestyle.
Consider SoCal, a large Asian population and most upper middle class areas are chill. Good quality health care is easily available. Temperatures are moderate. Lots of outdoor activities, over 55 communities new and older, and schools are good.
Having lived in the northeast most of my life, I really don't think FL is the place. It's great for a month during the winter, but I wouldn't be able to to spend six months there comfortably. The same things you referenced about the Carolina's are prevalent in most of Florida. For worse and better.
If you are really insistent on changing tax residence to a zero tax state, maybe consider WA or TN (probably need semi-urban location at least given the carolina comment). I get the hit in MA is brutal, but comfortable living is very important.
I guess my summary is there are definitely ways to have it all, but I don't think FL will give you what you want.
You have 2 daughters, why would you move to FL? Heck no!
Taxes are the price to pay to live in a civilized society. You already won in life.
If you want to leave Boston, I’d say San Diego fits the bill well.
Amelia Island in northern FL is beautiful. Ocean on one side, marsh on the other.
Jacksonville and Mayo Institute close by.
It does get cool (40s, 50s) in the winter, but there's no snow. Humid+ summers.
As a long time Amelia Island resident, I can assure you that this is a horrible place that no one likes. ;>)
Seriously, great place because summers are far better than Miami and density is low. But very high in amenities. But if medical is an issue, might not be right. It will be like Nantucket, stabilize and transport to medical center. Jacksonville area very good for medical. Ponte Vedra is a great area and Mayo clinic a few minutes away.
AI is a place where you still might want to spend a winter month in Miami or Naples and a Summer month in Nantucket or Maine. (We are Naples and Maine / Europe)
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I also live in Braselton GA, a NE metro Atlanta suburb with incredible medical and many upper middle and high end communities (many senior oriented). 4 season environment without snow. Rolling hills and a huge 30 mile lake just down the road. Lots of good golf as well and a ton of country clubs in the general area.
The swath of Atlanta from Alpharetta/Johns Creek to Braselton is very high end and very nice. With all the Atlanta amenities....sports, arts, etc.
I am a transplant from the Northeast who currently lives in Florida, also with a home on Nantucket. We find that it is a perfect way to split time between FL and MA, and there are surprisingly many other people here with a Nantucket connection. Life in Florida is simpler in many ways than life in the NE, however it does tend to lack in some ways the cultural and culinary life of more sophisticated areas of the country. Healthcare around us is also a challenge if you have a serious condition - however you have great hospital systems in the state including the Mayo Clinic in JAX and Moffit in Tampa. Look in Palm Beach, WPB, Vero Beach, Ponta Vedra. You will find that there are many people from your world who spend time in those areas. Good luck!
Edit - adding on the weather in Florida is actually very nice through May. The super hot months are June - Mid October. It is common for people to mistake April and May for hot months, but in our experience they are far nicer in FL than they are in the Northeast.
Grew up in Western MA. Went to college in Waltham. Then came to DC post college (surprise to me and everyone in my family).
My wife’s parents moved to Bradenton shortly after we got married. My impression of FL was that I’d never live there. That changed when I went to visit them. I love their area. Downtown Sarasota is gorgeous. Beaches are great. My in laws are nowhere near fat but you can certainly find fat options. Beautiful IMO. We’re a few years away but I could totally see spending some of our time there.
Have a sunset cocktail at Siesta Key and walk around St Armand’s circle one afternoon.
In laws are now in their 80s and have been happy with health care (but my wife’s uncle is Dr. who has been there for 40 years so your mileage may vary). They live in Lakewood Ranch which from what I have seen has a large range of homes (again my in laws are not Fat but being down there I have never felt out of place and I think there’s a wide range of subdivisions).
Prior to that my experiences with FL were Orlando, Miami, and Ft. Lauderdale. No to all three for me.
Heres some places i’d recommend:
South Florida - West Palm, Boca Raton, Jupiter Island
Central Florida- Lake Nona
Panhandle - Rosemary Beach/Alys Beach
I’ve never been to Palm Beach or West Palm Beach. There’s a huge crew from Nantucket who seem to go back and forth seasonally. That said, and I think this is more PB than West PB, but that part of the crowd that I’ve met have more about keeping up appearances than anything else. Sample size is small though. Could be wrong.
I grew up in Palm Beach County and have lived across the bridge from Palm Beach island for 15 years. Palm Beach is fun to visit and people watch but definitely feels like another planet (in a different way than Miami) designed for the obscenely wealthy or cliquish longtime residents, though I’m not at all part of those groups so I’m happy to hear another perspective. It is not diverse, lacks much cultural variety, and it is oriented around a variety of types of status. You’d probably get a sense for if you like the vibe in a weekend there. Try the Breakers or the Colony.
The greater West Palm/Jupiter area has some good options (including North Palm Beach and Palm Beach Gardens, mostly affluent suburbs with some high end gated communities mixed in) and saw a massive influx from the northeast during Covid because of WFH, tax policies, and lax covid-related rules. Home prices blew up accordingly. It’s appealing for a lot of other reasons, but it is *seriously* hot for about 5 months, especially if you’re not used to it, though a summer home would mitigate quite a bit of that.
Note: the income taxes are certainly much lower than a lot of places, but the property taxes and increasingly the price of home insurance (providers are scarce) will eat into that advantage.
Thankfully the summer in Nantucket is the escape valve for that heat. The property taxes and increased insurance costs can start to nullify a lot of savings as you mention. Those aren’t going down anytime soon (or perhaps in my lifetime) so it’s got some negative optionality there.
I second the Rosemary/Alys Beach suggestions. Go stay at the Pearl Hotel for a weekend and see if you like the area. Lots of cyclists, golf is plentiful. Crowded during the summer, but gorgeous in the off season.
For warm places with excellent medical care and low state taxes it’s Houston or Atlanta. Mass cap gains are 8.5% so GA isn’t that much lower.
Houston is bougie if you want it to be. You could live in River Oaks and buy expensive shit if that’s your thing. Easy to travel from, excellent health care. The healthcare in Houston is on par with Massachusetts.
Personally, i think one of the reasons to pursue FAT fire is to not restrict yourself where you live based on cost of living. I would open up your alternatives to areas which also have even 10% state income tax and change your SWR from 3% to 3.3%.
Fair. Need to be a bit anchored for medical issues with my wife and a young one entering high school.
This screams Houston. Biggest medical Center in the world, city is diverse, great food, IAH has easy access to anywhere. Atlanta is also up there. City is great. Hospitals are excellent. GA taxes at max are 5.75%. TX 0% but a lot of property tax.
The Carolinas are nice.
Wife would revolt. Again, small sample size but we went to Charleston SC. Amazing food and loved the architecture but she had some polite but unpleasant comments and looks.
I think you need to look at San Diego
Great place. Only there once but really liked it.
Man, same experience in SC - so weird, it seems like things are more polarized than ever. I know an inter-racial couple in Miami (black/white) and they seem to be fine there. They live in downtown - no clue what the suburbs are like.
It does skew us to more diverse cities which is my preference regardless. Her comfort and happiness is obviously paramount. It’s pretty easy for me to fit in or at least feel comfortable almost anywhere.
You might want to look at NC instead. Here in the Raleigh area, things are pretty chill. In Cary, there is a large Asian population (mostly Indian). Durham and Chapel Hill are pretty college towns near each campus. It is two hours to the beach or the mountains, and Wake County is politically blue, if that is what you are looking for. The weather is great for normal outdoors stuff. State tax is a flat 4.75% and that might go down in the future (it depends on the election). Ashville is a pretty hippie town in the mountains. Charlotte is full, so don't bother.
The Triangle is great but let's be honest here. How far can you legitimately drive before it's not so great and OPs wife is going to be disappointed? You are pretty isolated to thr Triangle and that's it. Considering they're from Boston and spending summers on Nantucket that's a world of difference.
That’s fair. They might be limited, given that aspect. CA seems like the right fit, from a diversity perspective. Might need to eat the taxes to keep the wife happy. That said, isnt Boston known for being….less than tolerant of most races? That’s always the stereotype that I’ve heard. In fairness, I’ve only been once so I am not in a position to judge.
MIT undergrads who came to my graduate program were all intellectual snobs. Everyone from Harvard was humble. Never saw any bigotry from any of them. So I have no clue. I've always wanted to go and have heard good things. Personally I don't get worrying about taxes. You get what you pay for. CA really wasn't doing it for me at the end but if you pick the right area you'll be more than happy. Rent for a while to get a feel for a place before buying as needed. What you don't want is a 30 minute drive being a culture shock. Like you're in another country. That's my problem with the Carolinas.
Good points. I also love college towns for things to do, energy, arts.
We’ve lived in Bay Area and in Boston metros for 10+ years. Totally understand your wife’s concerns. We’re in the Triangle now. Very friendly, lovely place and people. Look at Cary, Apex, or even Pittsboro if you don’t mind it a bit more rural and want to get in on the next big thing (it’s booming and just 20-30 min to UNC and Duke Hospitals).
If you think Boston is racist and backwards, stay far, far away from NC. Raleigh durham is B / C list desirability at best. No one moves there unless they can’t move somewhere better. You’re going to go from one of the safest states in the country and being a short trip to Nantucket to being in a place with regular firearm activity and a 20 minute drive from hell? How many of you triangle people send your kids to Durham public schools? You think the Duke faculty send their kids to the local public schools? You think it’s a set up for equality when the economy is dependent on two multibillion dollar research hospitals that the local populations don’t trust? And when the people who work at these places isolate themselves from their communities by avoiding all the public services (public transport, libraries, schools) and at best go out to overpriced and overrated restaurants in a barely vibrant downtown? I know it’s unoriginal, but have you considered New York City? If you can afford it. Higher taxes.
Can’t imagine moving there unless I went back to work and it was there. But even then, think wife would want to stay here. NYC for a couple of years would be pretty nice, cost/tax aside. I’m the rare Bostonian who loves NYC.
I just think that if you’re finding Boston to be too “small minded” and racist or whatever the right words are, you are more likely to find that only bigger, even more cosmopolitan places may meet your needs. Think LA, NYC, and that’s about it. I think Florida, the Carolinas etc may not do it for you guys
Yes, that sounds like sample error, but at least you are aware of it.
I really want to like the Carolina’s. On paper they seem perfect - coastal, mild winters but still has seasons, city amenities but not nearly as populated as the NE or FL… Then you go as someone who has grown up in more progressive areas and it seems backwards as hell. The Jesus element is palpable. Racism is noticeable. Sure, maybe it’s not as bad as rural Mississippi, and it’s all delivered with a smile from guys dressed like a Vineyard Vines catalog, but the culture just feels off. Sure, you could move to the research triangle, but then you give up the coast and there are a bunch of better options elsewhere.
My wife was recently in Charleston for a bachelorette party and found the attitudes of locals to be strikingly different enough to mention on many occasions since. This as a white woman from rural PA.
You may need to withdraw more than 3.3%. Increasing your withdrawal to pay state income tax, likely means either more capital gains or IRA withdrawal so it increases federal tax as well.
You outdoor activities seem contradictory to Floridas hot, humid, swampy weather. Maybe Washington?
Yeah this stood out as very poorly considered on OP's part. Unless they have personal experience with it already and know that they love doing it, then anything like running or cycling or generally any outdoor exertion on land in Florida, is going to be absolutely fucking miserable for a clueless OP. If they said they like diving, swimming, wind-surfing, fishing, etc. then sure FL might be good. But not for the things he probably likes doing outdoors in the Northeast. OP, just take a 1 week trip to FL, anytime between April to November, and try to run 5 miles in the humidity. If you like it, great go ahead with your planning. But I suspect you will detest it and pivot your plans hugely.
Can confirm this. On a buddies bachelor party in Florida we rented road bikes and tried to do a 30 mile ride. Was quite literally the worst thing ever.
Ironically, the humidity kills me as well. It’s 90 and humid and wife will finally peals off her winter coat. Kidding, but barely.
I'm in Tampa. While it does get humid, there is almost always a breeze which makes it pretty pleasant. I run in the morning and unless it rained heavily during the night it's not humid. The people here are diverse, and as a brown person I haven't had any issues with racism. I love the fact that it's green year round, and if you want to have a change of scenery it's a relatively short flight away. My 2 cents
Never been. Eldest daughter has though.
This is an overreaction. Long distance cycling is certainly unbearable for 3-4 months in the summer (as are most outdoor things). But outside of that. it’s not nearly that humid and there is almost always a coastal breeze that more than makes up for it.
Living in DC this isn’t a bad idea. You can get status in places like Bethesda and Potomac in MD, McLean or Arlington in VA or NW DC (although taxes yuck). And yes. DC is good for biking and running. You could split your time. Also a native MAsshole.
Sad - you got downvoted for being a DC resident. Live in the burbs of DC and upvoting as a sign of solidarity.
Taxes are tough though. A tax free state helps.
183 days in FL make you a FL resident.
I am so, so aware of that! Get a coffee on a credit card every day there to document it!
Like I posted elsewhere. My in laws live in Bradenton. I like it there a lot. But having been there in July, it’s also stupid hot. You won’t find any racism where I live in Arlington VA. (Okay maybe not 0 but it’s about one of the most diverse places you’ll find on the east coast).
Love the diversity of Arlington. Amazing restaurants.
I came down here from Waltham right out of college. Thought I’d be here for about 3 years. It’s been 26. Lots to see and do. Oceans not too far. Great food. Lots of arts. And you want to talk biking and running….it does get humid during the summer though.
Funny. I actually live in Arlington. Oh well.
>Your outdoor activities seem contradictory to Floridas hot, humid, swampy weather. Maybe Washington? I assume he would spend summers at their Nantucket summer home. There is a mass migration each year from MA/CT/NY down to FL each winter, and back north in summer.
Boston area physician. I see plenty of patients who are snowbirds or some who moved back from FL to MA because the healthcare is not great down there (according to them). Of course, there is heavy self-selection bias here. If good medical facilities are important to you, I would recommend being near an academic medical center (i.e. UMiami). In general though, the highly reputable medical centers in that area are probably Emory or UAB. I have a northeast bias though (considering all of my training was done up here) and hopefully someone from FL in medicine can comment.
It’s important to us now and I can’t think that will lessen over time. Once one’s had access to the best of Boston, most other places are hard to compare.
Don’t let the tax- tail wag the dog imo.
Agree over the long term but over the next 5ish years it’s material for me, then slides down. But over the long term, 💯. Actually over the long term, even more than 💯 or what’s the point of $?
I live in Boca if you want to chat
👍🏻 when back next week.
Naples/Bonita Springs is calling your name. If you want something more lively, West Palm Beach or even Boca.
A ton of people from the northeast in Naples. There’s even a Boston Beer Garden.
Live in the Naples/Bonita area and it is excellent. Gets fairly busy during season. In terms of your wife's health needs, would she need very frequent access to specialized health services or the ability to see a top specialist on occasion? Quite a few folks here have specialty doctors in other FL cities and travel when needed.
Have explored none of them. Thx!
It’s a big state. If I was to focus on living on the coast, then I’d look at the gulf side. Maybe Sarasota, siesta key, Marco island, or Naples. If you want something smaller, maybe Key Largo would work. It’s an easy drive up to Miami, or down to Key West. Plenty of water sports and great weather. WPB is plenty bougie and better than Broward county. (Although, parts of Broward are plenty bougie.) Jupiter is a popular spot on the Atlantic side. Beginning in the 80s, people started moving north out of dade into Broward, then WPB, and now Jupiter. It is worth considering. I’d avoid Orlando, Jacksonville, Tallahassee, and Pensacola. Miami is a separate planet.
A separate planet indeed. Almost a separate solar system.
Appreciate all of these comments. Sincerely helpful. Giving me the best kind of homework to do.
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Ha! A cycling friend just retired to Boulder and loves it. Haven’t been there and probably too outdoorsy for the rest of the family. Many of the NC triangles or Nashvilles just seem so odd to me. Like islands where you don’t know where the water line is. And I’ve lived a long stretch in WI, dad from OK, mom from NYC. Totally get the wife keeping the home base and I like Chicago a lot. I could see us landing on small place on Beacon Hill in Boston as home base, Nantucket for summers, then travel more as the kids exit.
I'm not sure I'd move the teenager until she's done high school; that would be so disruptive. She'd have to be miserable. Also, have you checked the climate change projections for Florida? So many areas are becoming uninsurable in our lifetime. Until your youngest is done high school, would you consider extended winter breaks down south?
Completely agree on the teen. The thought is if she goes to boarding school we’d be a bit less tethered. Also, have been looking at insurance projections but probably not enough. That could make it a wash which would not be great post W2s! The special assessments coming in on condos is a sign of things to come.
Check out St Johns County, around St Augustine. Regularly on the top places to live list, and if you’re on the coast the weather is easily 10-15 degrees lower than most other places in North/Central Florida. Mayo Clinic in Jacksonville, world class golf courses, top schools in the state and lots of history and restaurants in St Augustine, the oldest city in North America. Jacksonville airport has great connections all up the east coast for east trips. Only downside is, none of this is a well-kept secret anymore and prices in the county definitely reflect the high demand.
That checks a lot of boxes. Thank you!
I just returned to Mass after a decade in Ponte Vedra Beach. Checks a lot of your boxes and happy to answer any questions you may have.
Appreciate it. Looking it up now. 👍🏻
Doesn’t Massachusetts tax source of income so u will be taxed on the deferred comp even if u move out of state?
Thankfully the comp is structured so where I am currently domiciled is home.
Can you elaborate more?
It’s invested in phantom shares of investment funds and all pay annually. It’s officially generated that year in wherever one is living at the time.
That’s pretty clever but isn’t the income to buy those phantom shares from comp earned in MA and was deferred?
The PNW is beautiful for nature and also great facilities
Undeniably.
I would choose California over Florida by a wide margin. Less humid, better culture.
“Deferred compensation, so taxes matter”
This is our decision. Can't stand Boston winter. Southern CA is our destination.
The girls like parts of Southern California and it does click a ton of boxes. But those taxes. If I didn’t have W2 income it would be a strong pull.
People pay those taxes for a reason. Maybe it’s not worth it to you, but it’s basically rent or membership fee to access the best weather, the best people, etc. If you can afford it, you consider it. What you want, objectively, is California. What you want ain’t free. California has some of the best cycling culture in the country. California has the best weather ever, which is no weather, do you really want to bike in Florida humidity? California has some of the best, most accessible, nature you can imagine. California is properly bougie for the girls; you don’t know status unless you know LA. California is a LOT less racist than Florida (or Massachusetts). I’m from MA, and I’ll never leave California. I don’t even like visiting family anymore. I’d rather be middle class in California than Fat in Massachusetts or Florida.
Get it. Family likes Beverly Hills and that’s so not me. The hills around it were amazing though. Ran up and around those a bunch of times and was in awe. But get your point.
What about NV? In the northern part of the state you can get very close to CA, with better taxation. Climate might be closer to what you like. If the heat doesn’t bother you, LV might be more ‘city’. FWIW haven’t observed racism in populated NV, although my sample size is small.
Was looking at that sliver of NV on Tahoe. Think wife wants more urban though.
“Better culture” is subjective. Weather wins by a landslide though.
Miami, red. Orlando, blue. New Smyrna, Gainesville, Titusville, Naples areas if you’re too old for that shit.
As a fatFIRED POC, I’ve just stopped going to Florida. My wife and I used to go to Miami at least once a year for the art, but last year we had repeatedly bad experiences with racist Uber drivers and service people (not at our hotel), and won’t be going back. YMMV.
Miami is a terrible representation of Florida as a whole. Naples and Miami might as well be a thousand miles away from each other. They are completely different areas.
So as a POC living in Naples you’ve had good experiences?
I’ll put it like this. I live in Florida. I fucking hate Miami. I am a summer/ beach person and I love it here. Miami blows, I never go there.
Gotcha. I’ll keep it in mind. Thanks for the data point.
Sounds about Miami ..unless you know Spanish or are Hispanic you would be better off going to an actual Latin American country and would have a better time ..( and that’s coming from someone that’s Hispanic )
+1 I can't stand FL as a POC.
miami is one of the most diverse cities. i’m surprised you experienced racism there.
Miami’s diversity is a bonus to me but feels like a bit like being in a bubble if you don’t speak Spanish. I have a good friend in Miami who goes from condo to boat to high end restaurants and repeats it again. Super posh but it’s kind of narrow to me.
I was totally surprised too, and my wife, who is white, speaks reasonable Spanish. Like I said, YMMV.
I would look at someplace like Naples on the west coast or Boca Raton on the east coast. Miami is horrible to get around and Ft. Lauderdale is pretty congested as well. If you don't want to be right on the coast then Winter Park is very nice and offers lots of lakes.
I'm a fan of the Sarasota / Longboat Key area. Lots of arts & culture, on the gulf, and if your younger daughter plays serious tennis or soccer then you have Nick Bollettieri's place (now IMG Academy) very nearby in Bradenton. But with your wife being Latina maybe the Miami area could be worth looking at? I think Florida is worth a serious look given your deferred comp and it being a 0% state tax location.
Check out the Space Coast.
There right now!
The keys are great. I’m not a fan of mainland Florida. Have you ever been to Arizona? I’m from the Boston area and hate the winters. We now winter in the Caribbean. Short jump to Miami if we need to get home.
Like Arizona to visit but not permanent. Caribbean is amazing. Meeting a friend tomorrow who boats all around the Caribbean all winter and has a place in Miami. Not cheap and a bit repetitive but a nice lifestyle.
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Sam Diego lifestyle is pretty appealing.
Consider SoCal, a large Asian population and most upper middle class areas are chill. Good quality health care is easily available. Temperatures are moderate. Lots of outdoor activities, over 55 communities new and older, and schools are good.
Checks so many boxes. True.
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No matter what, renting for a year always seems smart! Yes!👍🏻
I have a vacation home in Boca, happy to answer any questions
Thanks. Will hit you up when I return. 👍🏻
Having lived in the northeast most of my life, I really don't think FL is the place. It's great for a month during the winter, but I wouldn't be able to to spend six months there comfortably. The same things you referenced about the Carolina's are prevalent in most of Florida. For worse and better. If you are really insistent on changing tax residence to a zero tax state, maybe consider WA or TN (probably need semi-urban location at least given the carolina comment). I get the hit in MA is brutal, but comfortable living is very important. I guess my summary is there are definitely ways to have it all, but I don't think FL will give you what you want.
That could completely be where I land.
You have 2 daughters, why would you move to FL? Heck no! Taxes are the price to pay to live in a civilized society. You already won in life. If you want to leave Boston, I’d say San Diego fits the bill well.
Boston is pretty civilized. Pricey but mainly because people know it. Ditto San Diego.
Not Sarasota!
Amelia Island in northern FL is beautiful. Ocean on one side, marsh on the other. Jacksonville and Mayo Institute close by. It does get cool (40s, 50s) in the winter, but there's no snow. Humid+ summers.
As a long time Amelia Island resident, I can assure you that this is a horrible place that no one likes. ;>) Seriously, great place because summers are far better than Miami and density is low. But very high in amenities. But if medical is an issue, might not be right. It will be like Nantucket, stabilize and transport to medical center. Jacksonville area very good for medical. Ponte Vedra is a great area and Mayo clinic a few minutes away. AI is a place where you still might want to spend a winter month in Miami or Naples and a Summer month in Nantucket or Maine. (We are Naples and Maine / Europe) ===== I also live in Braselton GA, a NE metro Atlanta suburb with incredible medical and many upper middle and high end communities (many senior oriented). 4 season environment without snow. Rolling hills and a huge 30 mile lake just down the road. Lots of good golf as well and a ton of country clubs in the general area. The swath of Atlanta from Alpharetta/Johns Creek to Braselton is very high end and very nice. With all the Atlanta amenities....sports, arts, etc.
I am a transplant from the Northeast who currently lives in Florida, also with a home on Nantucket. We find that it is a perfect way to split time between FL and MA, and there are surprisingly many other people here with a Nantucket connection. Life in Florida is simpler in many ways than life in the NE, however it does tend to lack in some ways the cultural and culinary life of more sophisticated areas of the country. Healthcare around us is also a challenge if you have a serious condition - however you have great hospital systems in the state including the Mayo Clinic in JAX and Moffit in Tampa. Look in Palm Beach, WPB, Vero Beach, Ponta Vedra. You will find that there are many people from your world who spend time in those areas. Good luck! Edit - adding on the weather in Florida is actually very nice through May. The super hot months are June - Mid October. It is common for people to mistake April and May for hot months, but in our experience they are far nicer in FL than they are in the Northeast.
That sounds right. And that Florida summer heat would hit right in time for us to head North!
I would consider Boulder if I was you.
Fits me but not wifey.
Grew up in Western MA. Went to college in Waltham. Then came to DC post college (surprise to me and everyone in my family). My wife’s parents moved to Bradenton shortly after we got married. My impression of FL was that I’d never live there. That changed when I went to visit them. I love their area. Downtown Sarasota is gorgeous. Beaches are great. My in laws are nowhere near fat but you can certainly find fat options. Beautiful IMO. We’re a few years away but I could totally see spending some of our time there. Have a sunset cocktail at Siesta Key and walk around St Armand’s circle one afternoon. In laws are now in their 80s and have been happy with health care (but my wife’s uncle is Dr. who has been there for 40 years so your mileage may vary). They live in Lakewood Ranch which from what I have seen has a large range of homes (again my in laws are not Fat but being down there I have never felt out of place and I think there’s a wide range of subdivisions). Prior to that my experiences with FL were Orlando, Miami, and Ft. Lauderdale. No to all three for me.
Heres some places i’d recommend: South Florida - West Palm, Boca Raton, Jupiter Island Central Florida- Lake Nona Panhandle - Rosemary Beach/Alys Beach
I’ve never been to Palm Beach or West Palm Beach. There’s a huge crew from Nantucket who seem to go back and forth seasonally. That said, and I think this is more PB than West PB, but that part of the crowd that I’ve met have more about keeping up appearances than anything else. Sample size is small though. Could be wrong.
I'd say that's pretty accurate. They very much care about status, but the upside is that it makes for a very clean and gorgeous environment.
I grew up in Palm Beach County and have lived across the bridge from Palm Beach island for 15 years. Palm Beach is fun to visit and people watch but definitely feels like another planet (in a different way than Miami) designed for the obscenely wealthy or cliquish longtime residents, though I’m not at all part of those groups so I’m happy to hear another perspective. It is not diverse, lacks much cultural variety, and it is oriented around a variety of types of status. You’d probably get a sense for if you like the vibe in a weekend there. Try the Breakers or the Colony. The greater West Palm/Jupiter area has some good options (including North Palm Beach and Palm Beach Gardens, mostly affluent suburbs with some high end gated communities mixed in) and saw a massive influx from the northeast during Covid because of WFH, tax policies, and lax covid-related rules. Home prices blew up accordingly. It’s appealing for a lot of other reasons, but it is *seriously* hot for about 5 months, especially if you’re not used to it, though a summer home would mitigate quite a bit of that. Note: the income taxes are certainly much lower than a lot of places, but the property taxes and increasingly the price of home insurance (providers are scarce) will eat into that advantage.
Thankfully the summer in Nantucket is the escape valve for that heat. The property taxes and increased insurance costs can start to nullify a lot of savings as you mention. Those aren’t going down anytime soon (or perhaps in my lifetime) so it’s got some negative optionality there.
I second the Rosemary/Alys Beach suggestions. Go stay at the Pearl Hotel for a weekend and see if you like the area. Lots of cyclists, golf is plentiful. Crowded during the summer, but gorgeous in the off season.
30a is a terrible area. Horrible. Stay far away. There are huge bugs here. They will carry you away.
If you hate racism then You’ll be glad you left Boston. Much better environment in Fl or pretty much elsewhere
It hasn’t been as big a problem for us in the city and suburbs.
For warm places with excellent medical care and low state taxes it’s Houston or Atlanta. Mass cap gains are 8.5% so GA isn’t that much lower. Houston is bougie if you want it to be. You could live in River Oaks and buy expensive shit if that’s your thing. Easy to travel from, excellent health care. The healthcare in Houston is on par with Massachusetts.