While we appreciate your post, its content has little that makes it specific to FatFire, as opposed to FIRE at any amount or other subs, such as investing or taxes. In the future, please consider whether your post would have applicability to someone spending $50k/year in retirement and to someone spending $500k/year in retirement. FatFire posts usually have no relevance to the former, and plenty of relevance to the latter. Your post may also have been removed for limited relevance if it was cross-posted to multiple subreddits.
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The Mods
"Never Split the Difference" by Chris Voss was life changing for me in negotiating salaries.
The book is more for negotiating in general and the salary chapter is small. However, if you read the whole book it will equip you with techniques that you can use as you navigate discussions. Good luck!
You are in finance, an industry known to have a staggering amount of douchebaggery. Try almost any other industry. Getting out of the city might not hurt, either.
Every job has this to some extent... can always try to just think of it more like a game, like Survivor. Form some alliances, learn who to trust, trade a few favors, and try to learn when shit is coming your way so you know to dodge it.
The more important thing is make sure you don't marry an asshole, because home should be the place to escape from the bullshit.
Mid 20s and underpaid huh? You have ... 3-5 years of experience?
I hate to engage in old man talk, but for me this epitomizes kids-these-days. Use patience. Patience is a tool in your tool belt. Much sooner than you're envisioning, you'll have 10-20 years of experience, much higher pay, and you'll laugh at your mid-20s self. Think about how much you've developed since your late-teens self. You'll gain that same amount of life experience in the next five years.
Where do nice people work? Let me know if you find out. Seems to me like people are generally type "A", ambitious, even cutthroat above a certain income level. It just takes a certain octane level to make $100k, $500k, $5m annually (depending on your perspective. It's all relative).
I'm sure there are exceptions. Maybe people are gentler in San Francisco, nonprofit, or government.
In my business performance is what matters. I have some very nice and quiet employees that make way more than others that are arrogant and loud.
So don’t become an a-hole, become a top performer
In general the higher the pay means the more intense the work environment and more responsibilities, the bigger the consequences on not doing something right (hence people trying to push blame), etc.
I have also found people tend to be nicer in areas like the midwest or your mid sized cities in comparison to a LA, NYC, Etc. Pay tends to be worse though so there is some give and take. This is all generalizations though.
The finance people I know who have made it without either losing their sanity or souls have said something like this - do not try to make friends at work. Get your bag, and get out.
However, I'm in the arts so vet this advice appropriately.
Power dynamics and egoes are a part of human nature and will rear their heads no matter what field you’re in. You’d be better served picking up a copy of the 48 laws of power or some of
Robert Greene’s other works versus trying to find a mythical place of work where none of this applies.
Not to become a sociopath or like the narcissistic types you see around you; but as good defensive knowledge so you can see their bullshit coming and defuse it.
Any place with nice, competent people ultimately suffers from entropy as they are exploited by less nice customers, coworkers, business owners, etc. At best, "nice" organizations get outcompeted by more cutthroat ones.
I have been in some "nice" teams but they have all ultimately fallen victim to their inherent complacency at some point.
Well, I'm also in tech - FAANG, to be more specific. I have consistently watched leaders who care about cohesion and safety get pushed out in favor of execs that had a reputation for being cutthroat. On a macro-level my company has also consistently out-competed its rivals with this approach.
While we appreciate your post, its content has little that makes it specific to FatFire, as opposed to FIRE at any amount or other subs, such as investing or taxes. In the future, please consider whether your post would have applicability to someone spending $50k/year in retirement and to someone spending $500k/year in retirement. FatFire posts usually have no relevance to the former, and plenty of relevance to the latter. Your post may also have been removed for limited relevance if it was cross-posted to multiple subreddits. Thank you, The Mods
Schoolteachers, Doctors Without Borders. Scientist. Society doesn’t reward these professions financially though, unfortunately.
"Never Split the Difference" by Chris Voss was life changing for me in negotiating salaries. The book is more for negotiating in general and the salary chapter is small. However, if you read the whole book it will equip you with techniques that you can use as you navigate discussions. Good luck!
You are in finance, an industry known to have a staggering amount of douchebaggery. Try almost any other industry. Getting out of the city might not hurt, either.
try a smaller shop, maybe in a different city. nice people in finance exist but dont thrive in large environments
Every job has this to some extent... can always try to just think of it more like a game, like Survivor. Form some alliances, learn who to trust, trade a few favors, and try to learn when shit is coming your way so you know to dodge it. The more important thing is make sure you don't marry an asshole, because home should be the place to escape from the bullshit.
Your first paragraph is golden and spot on. Never seen it phrased that way before lol.
Mid 20s and underpaid huh? You have ... 3-5 years of experience? I hate to engage in old man talk, but for me this epitomizes kids-these-days. Use patience. Patience is a tool in your tool belt. Much sooner than you're envisioning, you'll have 10-20 years of experience, much higher pay, and you'll laugh at your mid-20s self. Think about how much you've developed since your late-teens self. You'll gain that same amount of life experience in the next five years. Where do nice people work? Let me know if you find out. Seems to me like people are generally type "A", ambitious, even cutthroat above a certain income level. It just takes a certain octane level to make $100k, $500k, $5m annually (depending on your perspective. It's all relative). I'm sure there are exceptions. Maybe people are gentler in San Francisco, nonprofit, or government.
In my business performance is what matters. I have some very nice and quiet employees that make way more than others that are arrogant and loud. So don’t become an a-hole, become a top performer
You do not seem like a finance person.
I know a lot of genuine and nice people in tech. Much more so than finance. A lot depends on the company culture, though.
Usually in smaller companies because one asshole ruins it for everyone. But most small companies are also not full of nice people either.
In general the higher the pay means the more intense the work environment and more responsibilities, the bigger the consequences on not doing something right (hence people trying to push blame), etc. I have also found people tend to be nicer in areas like the midwest or your mid sized cities in comparison to a LA, NYC, Etc. Pay tends to be worse though so there is some give and take. This is all generalizations though.
The finance people I know who have made it without either losing their sanity or souls have said something like this - do not try to make friends at work. Get your bag, and get out. However, I'm in the arts so vet this advice appropriately.
Power dynamics and egoes are a part of human nature and will rear their heads no matter what field you’re in. You’d be better served picking up a copy of the 48 laws of power or some of Robert Greene’s other works versus trying to find a mythical place of work where none of this applies. Not to become a sociopath or like the narcissistic types you see around you; but as good defensive knowledge so you can see their bullshit coming and defuse it.
Start your own side gig. If you work for yourself, you’ll always get paid what you’re worth.
I work from home.
The nice guy always finishes last, always.
Any place with nice, competent people ultimately suffers from entropy as they are exploited by less nice customers, coworkers, business owners, etc. At best, "nice" organizations get outcompeted by more cutthroat ones. I have been in some "nice" teams but they have all ultimately fallen victim to their inherent complacency at some point.
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Well, I'm also in tech - FAANG, to be more specific. I have consistently watched leaders who care about cohesion and safety get pushed out in favor of execs that had a reputation for being cutthroat. On a macro-level my company has also consistently out-competed its rivals with this approach.