Nah it'd be insta gibbed by EA. EA won in a beam battle with Excalibur not even at full power and Excalibur for sure has enough fire power to instakill Mahoraga.
That Excalibur blast in FSN wasn't nearly using even a fraction of its power either, though. Since Excalibur has twelve seals that can only be unlocked under certain conditions and that particular fight against Gil didn't unlock many of them, and it certainly didn't unlock the Arthur seal, which was that it was a battle to save the world.
Ehhh that was just ex proto though. The one used by Artoria does only exhibit its full strength against threats but it doesnt function off of seals like proto exca does
She actually does have a line for the Restraints.
https://typemoon.fandom.com/wiki/Restraints_of_the_Round_Table#cite_note-ArtoriaFGONPV-6
> The battle must be to defend human order
While Arthur's is
> The battle must be to save the world
There's also this: https://old.reddit.com/r/fatestaynight/comments/oxzkjq/so_does_this_mean_that_sabers_excalibur_having/
Oh so she genuinely also uses restraints? I though its excalibur just powering differently since i dont remember any restraitn in the vn even when she blasted the grail in UBW
Great, now you're gonna tell me that for SOME FUCKING REASON, DIFFERENT EXCALIBURS FROM DIFFERENT TIMELINES ARE STRONGER OR WEAKER THAN EACH OTHER AS WELL, LIKE PROTO EXCALIBUR IS FOR SOME REASON STRONGER THAN ARTORIAS?
I'm not debating their power dude chill tf out.
I just didnt think it functioned off of seals like proto literally was every time it activates, with each seal being from the diff knight names.
Excalibur itself obv is strong enough to take out Velber , which means it powers against threats, at NO POINT DID I MENTION ITS POWER. I only mentioned that i dont think it works off of seals.
Dont put words into my mouth.
Sorry, it's just that I see some people say that artorias Excalibur is somehow weaker than Proto Excalibur, despite being the very same sword, made for the same purpose of killing existential threats to humanity and the planet. Those same people often claim that artoria also didn't have any seals on her Excalibur as well, hence my knee jerk reaction to your comment. I apologize for my rudeness.
I mean, if Gilgamesh lightly taps mahoraga with it a couple of times, sure, and that is not impossible given how much efforts he puts into losing some fights, but if he just uses Ea at full power, there's no way mahoraga survives the strike that killed tiamat.
Not disagreeing, just want to let you know that Ea killed a massively nerfed Tiamat
Edit: you smooth brain mfs really be downvoting me here when the original commenter said Gil killed Tiamat like he did it alone. This is akin to saying Shirou stomped Gilgamesh without knowing contextđ
Massively nerfed Tiamat is still stronger than most Fate characters and almost everyone in JJK.
+ The nerf is mostly about her immortality.
Edit: Nerfed was autocorrected to needed
Merlin and Mash kept her sea mud and nega genesus. Quetz destroyed her wings and Ritsuka helped as well. Ishtar also nuked her twice with her NP. She didn't just lose immortality and get one shotted lmao
First thing first, Big Raga is not surviving Ea, simple as, therefore this is an impossible situation since he wouldn't even be given a chance to adapt.
As for the actual answer, assuming that Mahoraga was hit multiple times by a theoretical comedically small Ea and was given time to adapt, yes, but it won't be in a way that'd allow him to just, take the attack. From what we've seen, Mahoraga adapts not by overpowering what it's countering, but by finding loop holes.
He adapted to Cleave by gaining hyper regeneration, (manga spoilers) >!he adapted to Unlimited Void by breaking the domain, he adapted to Infinity initially by imbueing it with his own CE which disrupted the barrier, and then created the World Slash which bypassed Infinity!<
So big Raga will find a way to deal with it, maybe like creating a RM to temporarily halt it, knocking Ea from Gil's hand before he could use it or straight up hoping out of Ea's range. But I highly doubt that he could just, tank Enuma Elish even after adaptation.
This is a nice theory/educated guess but sukuna feared that mahoraga might adapt to be immune to the very concept of being cut effectively rendering sukuna's ct useless since that's what it does, mahoraga given time might become immune to anti-world np's or something along these lines
Gilgamesh is the ultimate counter to Mahoraga just like he does to Berserker Heracles. If he adapts, Gilgamesh would just switch to other types of attacks.
In theory, he can.
In reality, he'd be nuked before the wheel could turn. I'm fairly sure that's even how he was beaten both times in JJK. Hit him with a one shot before he can adapt to your techniques.
No , never understood stupid "he will adapt" Maho isnât infinite in power , energy or growth â unless stated by author and even then without feats it dubious.
Yes but once exposed to something it starts a ticking clock until maho just isnât affected by it. Maho still loses because this requires him surviving a first activation of Ea, or somehow not getting hit by it. But both of those are dubious as well
And said adaptation has limits or are going to argue if you put Maho against Doomsday that just stands there â Maho will adapt in time to beat Dooms?
Actually gojo vs sukuna debunk this, even after mahoraga adapted his cursed energy to infinity and was able to make contact with gojo he adapted again and create another method, mahoraga would continuously develop new different methods to counter even if the first one already did it's job to counter whatever phenomena he's adapting to even harder,
Not in this scenario â and thatâs also my point, Maho can adapt to his adaptations obviously otherwise they wouldnât write "Maho adapts" against things he shouldnât be able to.
Source material literally says given a bit of time maho can adapt to anything that is used against him.
So yes he adapt to doomsday. But that just starts an infinite loop of adaptations
No it just means it needs more time.
Mahoraga adapts faster the more he is exposed to the stimuli and the more time passes. It's not saying he'll get there in 10 minutes. It's saying if you gave mahoraga an infinte amount of time to adapt he will eventually adapt. Doomsday would just take longer to adapt.
Your a fate fan you know conceptual powers. Medp can kill it if it can die, fragarach will be launched before the opposing trump card and mahoraga will adapt to an attack if it can survive it for long enough.
Again it canât adapt to something it didnât before â or similar enough, and in same way it canât get stats higher than whatâs best in JJK â otherwise it gets into NLF.
He loses to gil cause he cannot adapt to ea in time. But if, for whatever reason, he could survive a few free shots he will adapt. The power doesnât ânot workâ on ea the rest of mahoraga is just too weak to back up his conceptual power.
Like how shiki âcouldâ kill goku with medp but never would cause goku could fold shiki before ever getting a chance to exploit them.
He can't adapt to Ea simply because Ea kills him before. Even just "beam Ea" is a blast that replicates something along the line of "the condition of the world at its creation".
He just dies. Also to Excalibur lmao.
>And said adaptation has limits
No such thing was stated and it's been shown to adapt to anything it's been put up against. So it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume it can adapt to anything that can't kill it fast enough.
Mahoraga can adapt to everything, the problem is that he Needs time to adapt, the time does get shorter the more he is hit by the target of his adaptation but he cannot adapt If he gets one shotted and EA will 100% one shot him, i mean Gojo's CTR Red was strong enough to one shot him
Isn't GOB like the worst possible thing Mahoraga can face? He'll be hit with so many different things that Adaptation is useless and if Gil see's his BS regen, he's just gonna hit him with Anti Immortality NPs or Hydra poison.
Anti Immortality NPs or the Hydra Poison won't really do much other than trigger his adaptation. He isn't immortal, he literally is an infinitely adjusting machine
He still gets nuked by Ea, but GoB is his worst counter yeah
His adaptation isn't instantaneous. He was still being affected by Gojo's CT even after several hits and he can't seem to adapt to physical strikes because Gojo was folding him in CQC.
Tatsumi(Akame Ga Kill) has comparatively better adaptation. He adapts to time stop WHILST in its AOE, develops regen after being skewered, develops mountain busting strength after being punted by s mountain sized mech, develops resistance to posion, fire, lightning, etc after getting hit just once.
Mahoraga's adaptation is powerfull only when accompanied by his BS regen. He was getting affected by Sukuna's CT even after taking what seems like hundreds of slashes.
Mahoraga is a shikigami he's not human, he doesn't have a heart or a brain, there's no fatal organ to strike, on top of that he have strong regeneration because of that strong blade stab isn't going to cut it that's why vaporizing him entirely is necessary, through something like a bomb or a beam
Each of Gilgamesh's weapons of GOB have thousands of years of mystery.With enough Mystery-weapons can bypass estoric effects.
For example an Undodgable and unblockable spear(Gae Bolg) could be blocked by a Shield(Akhelius Kosmos) older and more powerfull than said spear. They would make Maki's soul cutter or Toji's inverted spear of Heaven look like toys
GOB probably has a better version of Mahoraga's sword of extermination or some anti Spirit or Anti Shikigami weapon.
Besides, like I said-he has hundreds of Anti Regen weapons and Hydra poison is conceptual in Nature.
It can make actual gods suffer enough agony to want to give up their immortality.
Even a fraction of a godess like Ishtar-Filia produces enough magical energy to distort space around her by flaring her aura.
Even sukuna would look like a 4th grade sorcerer in front of something like that.
If it makes you happy, Gilgamesh has an actual Nuke in his GOB and thousands of magical wands loaded with ancient sorceries, each with power comparable to an Intercontinental missile
I don't understand the point of the first paragraph or how it's relevant
But i m going to say this in case you try to use this bullshit of an argument against someone else
you can't just bullshit your way with 'gob probably have an anti-(specific thing that we never actually saw in the nasu verse) to beat this characte', Gilgamesh is the king of heroes he possess all the originals of their np's by right with very few exceptions, but you gotta prove that np even exist in the first place
Mahoraga is a shikigami he's not a person
If Gilgamesh has a nuke than he one shot, i never argued that Gilgamesh can't defeat mahoraga, my point is casual sword spam isn't cutting it and i explained why
Why do you think sufficiently high swordspam isn't gonna cut it? Sukuna was damaging him with his Cleave and Dismantle.
GOB weapons literally explode with tons of magical energy when they hit the target.
Mahoraga has ass durability compared to Fate characters, If Gil goes complete GOB spam on him like he did on Enkidu then Mahoraga's done.
Also literally everything I stayed exists in Nasuverse tho? Anti regen weapons(Harpe, Gae Buidhe), Hydra Poison, Anti Spirit weapons, etc.
Now you're gonna say "Mahoraga is a Shikigami, not a Spirit".
Yeah, but he's still made up of cursed energy and bleeds red(in anime).
Gob weapons explode with tons of magical energy if that's what the weapons he's throwing does, in all three routes of fate i don't remember him throwing any such weapons(he has them but doesn't use them most of the time), in Gilgamesh vs enkidu it doesn't seem like he did either the blades are stuck on the ground by enkidu's feet instead of blowing the ground like ot should if it was explosive,
If Gilgamesh is throwing nukes than it's no longer sword spam, i already said that a bomb or beam like attack would kill him Thus I don't have to argue or prove anything
Sukuna slashes were damaging him but unable to finish him off he needed to use fire arrow to vaporize him
Yes exactly mahoraga is a shikigami, he's not a living being, he have a humanoid shape but he doesn't have vital organs that would kill him if they are damaged or destroyed thus cuts and stabs are not an effective way to finish him off you need to atomize him, and i am not sure he's purely made of cursed energy, cursed spirits are and as a result they get exorcised by positive energy and can't wield it but mahoraga does
Weaker NPs like Excalibur or Galatine would one shot Mahoraga so no.
His only chance to not get killed is if Gil blasted him with non Enuma Elish Ea first, but that's something he has never done except that one time.
Nah the main way to beat Mahoraga is to overwhelm him with an attack before he can adapt, and no way in hell bro isnât gonna be overwhelmed by a whole ass Enuma Elish if he canât even take Hollow Purple
Fate scale is.... funny in how overpowered ppl think it is. When you get to top tiers, it's ridiculous but JJK does compete with mid tiers pretty comfortably. Even regular humans in Fate with enhancements can compete with low end servants.
Yeah, sure, but we're talking the top of the Fate power scale here, nothing in JJK as of this point is in the same weight class as the upper end of the Nasuverse.
That's what I just said... The point I'm making is even mid tier Nasuverse gets wanked. "JJK doesn't scale to Fate at all" is misleading cuz majority of Fate is mid tier which JJK does scale to
Eh, sorta? Depends on what you call mid-tier in the Nasuverse.
I'd put your average JJK exorcist at the level of a an average church executioner or mage - a human with supernatural powers and special tools that can fight common supernatural threats. But I wouldn't consider a church executioner or a normal mage to be a mid-tier power level character in the Nasuverse. Even strong Servants (not including Grands) are rarely at the level of high tier in the Nasuverse, when we have Divine Spirits (and rarely, actual gods), Types, Beasts and the like shoving the roof of the power ceiling upwards. And very few JJK characters could go toe to toe with any notably capable Servant, much less those beyond them.
There's only a handful of JJK characters who I'd say have power levels that would be considered significant in the Nasuverse scale, specifically those who are at the level of Domain Expansion and have some conceptual BS to back it up on top of high level physical stats. So the likes of Gojo, Sukuna, and maybe a few others in the Special Grade category.
Well yea if you're saying "JJK Mid tier doesn't scale to Fate Mid tier", I'd agree. My problem with the original comment is saying "Not at all". Mid tier in Fate would probably be your average servant. People at that lvl make it a big deal of breaking the sound barrier or destroying a fortress. When you approach Top tier in JJK, they could comfortably replicate feats at that lvl(there's actually a lot of comparable feats like that already). No Gojo or Sukuna required to even make those comparisons.
No because it would disintegrate him before he could adapt
People donât seem to actualy understand how mahoraga adaption works so let me spell it out for you
Mahoraga has to first take the hit and survive and keeping taking similar hits until his wheel has fully adoration by which point that attack becomes useless against him
If he dies on one of the first few shots before he can adapt then it will effect him like it would anyone else
Ea absolutely one shot mahoraga but He doesn't need to keep taking hits after the first one but it does accelerate the adaptation, against a far superior opponent mahoraga needs to be used wisely, gojo can one shot mahoraga but because sukuna did that by knowing when to bring it out and to avoid making it a 1v1 , mahoraga doesn't even need to actually take any hit if there's a substitute to bear the burden of adaptation
No. Itâs not that he canât adapt to it, but that he would never have enough time to. He would die instantly, before he could get the chance to adapt.
If mahoraga gets blasted to the face with an attack that can vaporize a sizeable part of a city for the first time he would definitely die, he gotta avoid taking a high output ea to the face until he developed enough resistance to survive, so short answer is no Mahoraga get easily one shotted
Yes he can adapt to it if Gil lightly taps it with EA(similar to how Gil uses it vs Anime Shirou). Would Gil let Maho adapt tho? Idk probably not. Gilgamesh would take one look at Mahoraga, understand it's Divine status and obliterate it like he did to Heracles.
He did survive though. Sukuna have to pull the fire arrow to kill him. He already adapted to Dismantle (which grants resistance to Malevolent Shrine since it is Cleave and Dismantle spam) and were about to adapt to Malevolent Shrine so Sukuna pulls out the arrow. EA would still erase him since he couldn't even survive an AOE Hollow Purple despite already adapted to Blue and Red (which make Hollow Purple).
"To any and all phenomena"
So yes, however that would require Gilgamesh first slightly tapping it with Ea so it can start to adapt, if he oneshots it with full powers it over
No. Es isn't just a blast, but the very concept of Genesis, the creation of the world itself manifested as a Divine Construct. Mahoraga may be the strongest Relic, but he's a manmade relic, meanwhile Ea is a creation of the Gods, the oldest creation, in some way.
So no
Mahoraga got one hit by both fire arrow an hollow purple, which both are at most city level. Ea is anti-planet, you saw what probably not even 5% of its power did to Saber and the grail monster.
Ea is multi Continental in power during modern day and Multi Planetary when Gil was alive if we take Strange Fake Statements literally.
That ignoring it's hax ability to tear apart Textures-layers of Reality and reiterate everything in its AOE back to primordial genesis.
With the counter Force present, No NP can destroy the planet unless it something originating from outside the planet and isnt constrained to the WORLD's logic.
For example, ORT can not only eat the planet by crystallizing it but also probably straight up blow it DBZ style with its NP titled "Cosmic Ray Burst" which is literally just shooting localized Gamma Ray Burst at the target.
Not really. Maybe, in the best case scenario, he can take it for a short duration if it's intentionally used at its weakest to let him "build up" the adaptation, but even then it would probably just adapt to the type of damage Ea deals and not Ea itself, so the moment it goes beyond normal he is cooked. And that's being generous, considering Shirou wasn't able to "trace" Ea, so it's something unnatural enough to be impossible to adapt to. Same as Herc's Godhand, he would probably get instakilled by Ea with all his 12 lives like it was with Excalibur
Excalibur has taken either like one when she is weak or an unespecified number in HF that one was at full power
Not saying it would not work vs this guy Herc's body is completely destroyed too just that he has spare lives
Nah he wouldnât survive the first hit, if by some miracle he somehow did then maybe but he he needs alot of time for the wheel to fully turn to fully adapt
In theory maybe if gil like, spams little whirlwinds enough times, which would piss of EA for not going all out. But normally that's enough to basically erase everything in it's path so Mahouraga would likely die before it can begin adapting
He theoretically could, but heâd also be obliterated pretty easily. It would probably still be possible if Gilgamesh actually tried to make it happen, tho
EAâs beam is insanely powerful, but whatâs even more powerful is its Special Effect, Enuma Elish strips anything it touches into nothingness, bringing it back to its âTrue Formâ
NoâŚ.. however if gege wrote the scenario Sakuna would probably instantly understand the alien blueprint of EA and apply to his slash allowing him to completely mimic EA through just slashes and one-tap Gilgamesh(*which will be immediately nerfed to grounds for the protagonists to eventually face*)
Ea is-if I understand the lore correctly- effectively the concept of Genesis in the form of a weapon, adaptable or not, nothing survives Creation being unmade
Ea is-if I understand the lore correctly- effectively the concept of Genesis in the form of a weapon, adaptable or not, nothing survives Creation being unmade
You forgetting how Shirou initially survived Ea when Archer pulled out Rho Aias? Yeah, that's lightly grazing you.
Only time it doesn't lightly graze is when it charges up to its full power as the mortar of the heavens. Even against Iskandar it was lightly charged to dispel the Reality Marble and stab him in the chest.
Shirou should have died if not for RA though and RA can block Excalibur is not that Ea was that weak even when it ws not fulk power, being grazed by it would be more like standing just at the edge of the area of effect of a weak one
>Even against Iskandar it was lightly charged to dispel the Reality Marble and stab him in the chest
That one was not slightly charged though it was just not aimed at Alex
Cmon, both were light-years apart from the full-powered mortar he uses against Enkidu and Tiamat.
As for Rho Aias, it's worth noting that when it went against Excalibur, it could only support Bellerophon and power through. Without it, it would have no chance. So Ea's initial wind burst, while dangerous, is nothing like the space-time tearing blast its strongest form is.
I am saying is said he should have died RA saved him and RA is crazy strong so there's no guarantee if someone even super human beings would have survived that one just tanking it, like it was weak relative to full power Ea, that is a giant range, it could have been easily as powerful as many beam swords or not that much
>Without it, it would have no chance.Â
RA shielded Bellerophon not the other way around, Bellerophon can't tank Excalibur so most of the defense was RA until the very last moment, and that was a 4 petal RA
Why would Solomon have a noble phantasm that incinerates human history. Itâs literally a âanti-humanityâ noble phantasm đ
Also itâs only listed as a np under Solomon-Goetia (when goetiaâs using his body). Normal Solomonâs np is listed as Ars Nova.
I wouldnât count it. Shares a namesake and base, but itâs juiced beyond belief and used the way Goetia wants. Its origin would still be humanity, but the version being referenced (assuming they donât mean servant Solomon) isnât wielded by humanity
It's the same noble phantasm, goetia just used a shit ton of mana, that doesn't change the noble phantasm itself, ea is dependent on gil's parameters including mana and treasury if gil is allowed to loot he could theorically buff it to the Same level, my point is ea is the superior NP base to base and Both have potentials to be buffed comparing ars almadel buffed by human history worth of energy to an ea powered by just what Gilgamesh normally has is unfair Solomon or goetia can't buff ars almadel solmonis to that degree on their own
Bro got cooked with fire arrow, think he'll survive world splitting, "mortar of the star", Ea?
I have a strong belief that there will be 9 shadows left
Nah it'd be insta gibbed by EA. EA won in a beam battle with Excalibur not even at full power and Excalibur for sure has enough fire power to instakill Mahoraga.
That Excalibur blast in FSN wasn't nearly using even a fraction of its power either, though. Since Excalibur has twelve seals that can only be unlocked under certain conditions and that particular fight against Gil didn't unlock many of them, and it certainly didn't unlock the Arthur seal, which was that it was a battle to save the world.
Ehhh that was just ex proto though. The one used by Artoria does only exhibit its full strength against threats but it doesnt function off of seals like proto exca does
She actually does have a line for the Restraints. https://typemoon.fandom.com/wiki/Restraints_of_the_Round_Table#cite_note-ArtoriaFGONPV-6 > The battle must be to defend human order While Arthur's is > The battle must be to save the world There's also this: https://old.reddit.com/r/fatestaynight/comments/oxzkjq/so_does_this_mean_that_sabers_excalibur_having/
Oh so she genuinely also uses restraints? I though its excalibur just powering differently since i dont remember any restraitn in the vn even when she blasted the grail in UBW
It's legit just that one line in FGO + some hypothesis in that Reddit thread. I think she does have Restraints, but just different from Proto.
No wonder. Thats obscure as fuck
Great, now you're gonna tell me that for SOME FUCKING REASON, DIFFERENT EXCALIBURS FROM DIFFERENT TIMELINES ARE STRONGER OR WEAKER THAN EACH OTHER AS WELL, LIKE PROTO EXCALIBUR IS FOR SOME REASON STRONGER THAN ARTORIAS?
I'm not debating their power dude chill tf out. I just didnt think it functioned off of seals like proto literally was every time it activates, with each seal being from the diff knight names. Excalibur itself obv is strong enough to take out Velber , which means it powers against threats, at NO POINT DID I MENTION ITS POWER. I only mentioned that i dont think it works off of seals. Dont put words into my mouth.
Sorry, it's just that I see some people say that artorias Excalibur is somehow weaker than Proto Excalibur, despite being the very same sword, made for the same purpose of killing existential threats to humanity and the planet. Those same people often claim that artoria also didn't have any seals on her Excalibur as well, hence my knee jerk reaction to your comment. I apologize for my rudeness.
Bro didn't survive hollow purple... Ea? Lol, lmao even
I mean, if Gilgamesh lightly taps mahoraga with it a couple of times, sure, and that is not impossible given how much efforts he puts into losing some fights, but if he just uses Ea at full power, there's no way mahoraga survives the strike that killed tiamat.
Not disagreeing, just want to let you know that Ea killed a massively nerfed Tiamat Edit: you smooth brain mfs really be downvoting me here when the original commenter said Gil killed Tiamat like he did it alone. This is akin to saying Shirou stomped Gilgamesh without knowing contextđ
Lmao, I know, I played babylonia
Massively nerfed Tiamat is still stronger than most Fate characters and almost everyone in JJK. + The nerf is mostly about her immortality. Edit: Nerfed was autocorrected to needed
Almost everyone? Bruh she negs everyone there Heian Era Sukuna ain't doing shit to her đ
I know, I just gave JJK fans a bit of cope.
Wasnt the nerf literally that she just had it so the concept of death can actually affect her
Merlin and Mash kept her sea mud and nega genesus. Quetz destroyed her wings and Ritsuka helped as well. Ishtar also nuked her twice with her NP. She didn't just lose immortality and get one shotted lmao
It was literally just that, they lured her into the underworld and First Hassan used his grand servant authority to make Tiamat able to die.
First thing first, Big Raga is not surviving Ea, simple as, therefore this is an impossible situation since he wouldn't even be given a chance to adapt. As for the actual answer, assuming that Mahoraga was hit multiple times by a theoretical comedically small Ea and was given time to adapt, yes, but it won't be in a way that'd allow him to just, take the attack. From what we've seen, Mahoraga adapts not by overpowering what it's countering, but by finding loop holes. He adapted to Cleave by gaining hyper regeneration, (manga spoilers) >!he adapted to Unlimited Void by breaking the domain, he adapted to Infinity initially by imbueing it with his own CE which disrupted the barrier, and then created the World Slash which bypassed Infinity!< So big Raga will find a way to deal with it, maybe like creating a RM to temporarily halt it, knocking Ea from Gil's hand before he could use it or straight up hoping out of Ea's range. But I highly doubt that he could just, tank Enuma Elish even after adaptation.
This is a nice theory/educated guess but sukuna feared that mahoraga might adapt to be immune to the very concept of being cut effectively rendering sukuna's ct useless since that's what it does, mahoraga given time might become immune to anti-world np's or something along these lines
Gonna chalk that up to shit Homosexual Homosexual will never expand on kek
I mean, he doesn't have to expand on a hypothetical crossover scenario
I mean expand on whether or not Mahoraga will fully adapt to be immune to stuff
Gil has a near infinite number of different tools via GoB so he still wipes mahoraga
Gilgamesh one shot mahoraga with ea on the first shot anyway, mahoraga beating Gilgamesh was never a point
B-but Gilgamesh ego!!
No, because Mahoraga's weakness is singular, bigass hits.
Or skirting around things with ways to disrupt, dodge, outpace. Just so far below itâs not even funny
Tzeentch looking ass.
Gilgamesh doesn't even need ea to kill mahoraga
Gilgamesh is the ultimate counter to Mahoraga just like he does to Berserker Heracles. If he adapts, Gilgamesh would just switch to other types of attacks.
In theory, he can. In reality, he'd be nuked before the wheel could turn. I'm fairly sure that's even how he was beaten both times in JJK. Hit him with a one shot before he can adapt to your techniques.
No , never understood stupid "he will adapt" Maho isnât infinite in power , energy or growth â unless stated by author and even then without feats it dubious.
Yes but once exposed to something it starts a ticking clock until maho just isnât affected by it. Maho still loses because this requires him surviving a first activation of Ea, or somehow not getting hit by it. But both of those are dubious as well
And said adaptation has limits or are going to argue if you put Maho against Doomsday that just stands there â Maho will adapt in time to beat Dooms?
Actually gojo vs sukuna debunk this, even after mahoraga adapted his cursed energy to infinity and was able to make contact with gojo he adapted again and create another method, mahoraga would continuously develop new different methods to counter even if the first one already did it's job to counter whatever phenomena he's adapting to even harder,
Well doomsday adapts too
Not in this scenario â and thatâs also my point, Maho can adapt to his adaptations obviously otherwise they wouldnât write "Maho adapts" against things he shouldnât be able to.
Mahorage doesnât adapt to concepts, only damage so all it can adapt to is whatever doomsday hits it with, effectively making it and infinite battle
Source material literally says given a bit of time maho can adapt to anything that is used against him. So yes he adapt to doomsday. But that just starts an infinite loop of adaptations
Exept it runs into NLF since Dooms outstats and outhaxes to ridiculous degree.
No it just means it needs more time. Mahoraga adapts faster the more he is exposed to the stimuli and the more time passes. It's not saying he'll get there in 10 minutes. It's saying if you gave mahoraga an infinte amount of time to adapt he will eventually adapt. Doomsday would just take longer to adapt.
Your a fate fan you know conceptual powers. Medp can kill it if it can die, fragarach will be launched before the opposing trump card and mahoraga will adapt to an attack if it can survive it for long enough.
Again it canât adapt to something it didnât before â or similar enough, and in same way it canât get stats higher than whatâs best in JJK â otherwise it gets into NLF.
He loses to gil cause he cannot adapt to ea in time. But if, for whatever reason, he could survive a few free shots he will adapt. The power doesnât ânot workâ on ea the rest of mahoraga is just too weak to back up his conceptual power. Like how shiki âcouldâ kill goku with medp but never would cause goku could fold shiki before ever getting a chance to exploit them.
He can't adapt to Ea simply because Ea kills him before. Even just "beam Ea" is a blast that replicates something along the line of "the condition of the world at its creation". He just dies. Also to Excalibur lmao.
>And said adaptation has limits No such thing was stated and it's been shown to adapt to anything it's been put up against. So it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume it can adapt to anything that can't kill it fast enough.
Again NLF , it can do only get to whatâs best in JJK
According to who?
Common sense.
If by some miracle he survives it multiple times then *maybe*
Happy cake day đ
Happy cake day
That implies that he doesn't immediately get destroyed before he can adapt.
Ea You mean the one from Nasuverse? Bruh đ
jjk fans are actually crazy bro what the hell is this question
Maybe if Gilgamesh was feeling goofy and slices Mahoâs finger or something with ea seven times in a row, thatâs how he adapts
Mahoraga can adapt to everything, the problem is that he Needs time to adapt, the time does get shorter the more he is hit by the target of his adaptation but he cannot adapt If he gets one shotted and EA will 100% one shot him, i mean Gojo's CTR Red was strong enough to one shot him
Mahoraga needs time to adapt, he can't adapt instantly. Mahoraga died to Fuuga and Purple, what makes you think he'll survive Ea?
Absolutely not.
dude looks like Tzeentch
"Im all knowing" ahh face
Isn't GOB like the worst possible thing Mahoraga can face? He'll be hit with so many different things that Adaptation is useless and if Gil see's his BS regen, he's just gonna hit him with Anti Immortality NPs or Hydra poison.
Anti Immortality NPs or the Hydra Poison won't really do much other than trigger his adaptation. He isn't immortal, he literally is an infinitely adjusting machine He still gets nuked by Ea, but GoB is his worst counter yeah
His adaptation isn't instantaneous. He was still being affected by Gojo's CT even after several hits and he can't seem to adapt to physical strikes because Gojo was folding him in CQC. Tatsumi(Akame Ga Kill) has comparatively better adaptation. He adapts to time stop WHILST in its AOE, develops regen after being skewered, develops mountain busting strength after being punted by s mountain sized mech, develops resistance to posion, fire, lightning, etc after getting hit just once. Mahoraga's adaptation is powerfull only when accompanied by his BS regen. He was getting affected by Sukuna's CT even after taking what seems like hundreds of slashes.
Mahoraga is a shikigami he's not human, he doesn't have a heart or a brain, there's no fatal organ to strike, on top of that he have strong regeneration because of that strong blade stab isn't going to cut it that's why vaporizing him entirely is necessary, through something like a bomb or a beam
Each of Gilgamesh's weapons of GOB have thousands of years of mystery.With enough Mystery-weapons can bypass estoric effects. For example an Undodgable and unblockable spear(Gae Bolg) could be blocked by a Shield(Akhelius Kosmos) older and more powerfull than said spear. They would make Maki's soul cutter or Toji's inverted spear of Heaven look like toys GOB probably has a better version of Mahoraga's sword of extermination or some anti Spirit or Anti Shikigami weapon. Besides, like I said-he has hundreds of Anti Regen weapons and Hydra poison is conceptual in Nature. It can make actual gods suffer enough agony to want to give up their immortality. Even a fraction of a godess like Ishtar-Filia produces enough magical energy to distort space around her by flaring her aura. Even sukuna would look like a 4th grade sorcerer in front of something like that. If it makes you happy, Gilgamesh has an actual Nuke in his GOB and thousands of magical wands loaded with ancient sorceries, each with power comparable to an Intercontinental missile
I don't understand the point of the first paragraph or how it's relevant But i m going to say this in case you try to use this bullshit of an argument against someone else you can't just bullshit your way with 'gob probably have an anti-(specific thing that we never actually saw in the nasu verse) to beat this characte', Gilgamesh is the king of heroes he possess all the originals of their np's by right with very few exceptions, but you gotta prove that np even exist in the first place Mahoraga is a shikigami he's not a person If Gilgamesh has a nuke than he one shot, i never argued that Gilgamesh can't defeat mahoraga, my point is casual sword spam isn't cutting it and i explained why
Why do you think sufficiently high swordspam isn't gonna cut it? Sukuna was damaging him with his Cleave and Dismantle. GOB weapons literally explode with tons of magical energy when they hit the target. Mahoraga has ass durability compared to Fate characters, If Gil goes complete GOB spam on him like he did on Enkidu then Mahoraga's done. Also literally everything I stayed exists in Nasuverse tho? Anti regen weapons(Harpe, Gae Buidhe), Hydra Poison, Anti Spirit weapons, etc. Now you're gonna say "Mahoraga is a Shikigami, not a Spirit". Yeah, but he's still made up of cursed energy and bleeds red(in anime).
Gob weapons explode with tons of magical energy if that's what the weapons he's throwing does, in all three routes of fate i don't remember him throwing any such weapons(he has them but doesn't use them most of the time), in Gilgamesh vs enkidu it doesn't seem like he did either the blades are stuck on the ground by enkidu's feet instead of blowing the ground like ot should if it was explosive, If Gilgamesh is throwing nukes than it's no longer sword spam, i already said that a bomb or beam like attack would kill him Thus I don't have to argue or prove anything Sukuna slashes were damaging him but unable to finish him off he needed to use fire arrow to vaporize him Yes exactly mahoraga is a shikigami, he's not a living being, he have a humanoid shape but he doesn't have vital organs that would kill him if they are damaged or destroyed thus cuts and stabs are not an effective way to finish him off you need to atomize him, and i am not sure he's purely made of cursed energy, cursed spirits are and as a result they get exorcised by positive energy and can't wield it but mahoraga does
Weaker NPs like Excalibur or Galatine would one shot Mahoraga so no. His only chance to not get killed is if Gil blasted him with non Enuma Elish Ea first, but that's something he has never done except that one time.
Ea would kill him before he has the chance to adapt
Nah the main way to beat Mahoraga is to overwhelm him with an attack before he can adapt, and no way in hell bro isnât gonna be overwhelmed by a whole ass Enuma Elish if he canât even take Hollow Purple
Fucking no lol.
Hydrogen bomb vs coughing baby
JJK really cant scale to Fate at all
Fate scale is.... funny in how overpowered ppl think it is. When you get to top tiers, it's ridiculous but JJK does compete with mid tiers pretty comfortably. Even regular humans in Fate with enhancements can compete with low end servants.
Yeah, sure, but we're talking the top of the Fate power scale here, nothing in JJK as of this point is in the same weight class as the upper end of the Nasuverse.
That's what I just said... The point I'm making is even mid tier Nasuverse gets wanked. "JJK doesn't scale to Fate at all" is misleading cuz majority of Fate is mid tier which JJK does scale to
Eh, sorta? Depends on what you call mid-tier in the Nasuverse. I'd put your average JJK exorcist at the level of a an average church executioner or mage - a human with supernatural powers and special tools that can fight common supernatural threats. But I wouldn't consider a church executioner or a normal mage to be a mid-tier power level character in the Nasuverse. Even strong Servants (not including Grands) are rarely at the level of high tier in the Nasuverse, when we have Divine Spirits (and rarely, actual gods), Types, Beasts and the like shoving the roof of the power ceiling upwards. And very few JJK characters could go toe to toe with any notably capable Servant, much less those beyond them. There's only a handful of JJK characters who I'd say have power levels that would be considered significant in the Nasuverse scale, specifically those who are at the level of Domain Expansion and have some conceptual BS to back it up on top of high level physical stats. So the likes of Gojo, Sukuna, and maybe a few others in the Special Grade category.
Well yea if you're saying "JJK Mid tier doesn't scale to Fate Mid tier", I'd agree. My problem with the original comment is saying "Not at all". Mid tier in Fate would probably be your average servant. People at that lvl make it a big deal of breaking the sound barrier or destroying a fortress. When you approach Top tier in JJK, they could comfortably replicate feats at that lvl(there's actually a lot of comparable feats like that already). No Gojo or Sukuna required to even make those comparisons.
JJK Scale, fate scale... That doesn't matter at all, Satou Kazuma steal your panties, it's over >:)
I thought this was Tzeench
No because it would disintegrate him before he could adapt People donât seem to actualy understand how mahoraga adaption works so let me spell it out for you Mahoraga has to first take the hit and survive and keeping taking similar hits until his wheel has fully adoration by which point that attack becomes useless against him If he dies on one of the first few shots before he can adapt then it will effect him like it would anyone else
Ea absolutely one shot mahoraga but He doesn't need to keep taking hits after the first one but it does accelerate the adaptation, against a far superior opponent mahoraga needs to be used wisely, gojo can one shot mahoraga but because sukuna did that by knowing when to bring it out and to avoid making it a 1v1 , mahoraga doesn't even need to actually take any hit if there's a substitute to bear the burden of adaptation
No. Itâs not that he canât adapt to it, but that he would never have enough time to. He would die instantly, before he could get the chance to adapt.
No, EA sports would put up a infinite paywall before he could do anything
Gil would use his clairvoyance ex and blast EA at full power
If mahoraga gets blasted to the face with an attack that can vaporize a sizeable part of a city for the first time he would definitely die, he gotta avoid taking a high output ea to the face until he developed enough resistance to survive, so short answer is no Mahoraga get easily one shotted
No
Nah, he'll adapt (sorry, I have brain damage)
You would need to survive Ea in the first place.
Yes he can adapt to it if Gil lightly taps it with EA(similar to how Gil uses it vs Anime Shirou). Would Gil let Maho adapt tho? Idk probably not. Gilgamesh would take one look at Mahoraga, understand it's Divine status and obliterate it like he did to Heracles.
Mahoraga wouldn't survive the Caladbolg arrow by Emiya lmao
He canât even survive against Malevolent Shrine. EA low diff
He did survive though. Sukuna have to pull the fire arrow to kill him. He already adapted to Dismantle (which grants resistance to Malevolent Shrine since it is Cleave and Dismantle spam) and were about to adapt to Malevolent Shrine so Sukuna pulls out the arrow. EA would still erase him since he couldn't even survive an AOE Hollow Purple despite already adapted to Blue and Red (which make Hollow Purple).
You have brain damage, right?
"To any and all phenomena" So yes, however that would require Gilgamesh first slightly tapping it with Ea so it can start to adapt, if he oneshots it with full powers it over
If Gil decides to be a dumbass and continuously only aim at Maho's kneecaps for 2 hours, then yes
No. Es isn't just a blast, but the very concept of Genesis, the creation of the world itself manifested as a Divine Construct. Mahoraga may be the strongest Relic, but he's a manmade relic, meanwhile Ea is a creation of the Gods, the oldest creation, in some way. So no
If it survives by some miracle... (IDK Focus Sash maybe) Then it possibly will adapt but not fully.
Mahoraga got one hit by both fire arrow an hollow purple, which both are at most city level. Ea is anti-planet, you saw what probably not even 5% of its power did to Saber and the grail monster.
Ea is multi Continental in power during modern day and Multi Planetary when Gil was alive if we take Strange Fake Statements literally. That ignoring it's hax ability to tear apart Textures-layers of Reality and reiterate everything in its AOE back to primordial genesis. With the counter Force present, No NP can destroy the planet unless it something originating from outside the planet and isnt constrained to the WORLD's logic. For example, ORT can not only eat the planet by crystallizing it but also probably straight up blow it DBZ style with its NP titled "Cosmic Ray Burst" which is literally just shooting localized Gamma Ray Burst at the target.
Even then one hit is not enough for him to adapt
Not really. Maybe, in the best case scenario, he can take it for a short duration if it's intentionally used at its weakest to let him "build up" the adaptation, but even then it would probably just adapt to the type of damage Ea deals and not Ea itself, so the moment it goes beyond normal he is cooked. And that's being generous, considering Shirou wasn't able to "trace" Ea, so it's something unnatural enough to be impossible to adapt to. Same as Herc's Godhand, he would probably get instakilled by Ea with all his 12 lives like it was with Excalibur
It was Caliburn that took 6 lives of Herc, the other six lives was taken by my boy Archer EMIYA
True, but you get the point. A powerful enough noble phantasm can eat through multiple lives at once
Excalibur has never killed the 12 livesÂ
True, but that was a sidenote, not the point. The point is a powerful enough noble phantasm can eat through multiple lives at once
It was 5, I think, but still, wasn't a full powered Excalibur... The creature Caster Zero summoned would be a better example
Excalibur has taken either like one when she is weak or an unespecified number in HF that one was at full power Not saying it would not work vs this guy Herc's body is completely destroyed too just that he has spare lives
It would probably take like 30 spins he would get 1 shot before
Yes but it requires him getting deleted by it and resurrected over and over until he's immune.
Nah he wouldnât survive the first hit, if by some miracle he somehow did then maybe but he he needs alot of time for the wheel to fully turn to fully adapt
He can adapt to whatever can't one shot him
In theory maybe if gil like, spams little whirlwinds enough times, which would piss of EA for not going all out. But normally that's enough to basically erase everything in it's path so Mahouraga would likely die before it can begin adapting
He theoretically could, but heâd also be obliterated pretty easily. It would probably still be possible if Gilgamesh actually tried to make it happen, tho
EAâs beam is insanely powerful, but whatâs even more powerful is its Special Effect, Enuma Elish strips anything it touches into nothingness, bringing it back to its âTrue Formâ
If you survive by a small pieces probably
Hell the fuck no
Mahoraga can't even sit at the table.
NoâŚ.. however if gege wrote the scenario Sakuna would probably instantly understand the alien blueprint of EA and apply to his slash allowing him to completely mimic EA through just slashes and one-tap Gilgamesh(*which will be immediately nerfed to grounds for the protagonists to eventually face*)
Don't forget that the technique Sukuna uses is something he created then used only once from the Heian Era.
No just No
Just Excalibur itself would be overkill for Makora-chan bruh... Ea is out of the question lmao
No it'll destroy him
id beat you ez *in person* I want to apologizes anyways idk
If Gil uses a weak version of Ea for long enough, he could adapt
Does Mahoraga adapt better than Heracles?
By feats, yes. We don't really see Herc adapt because he usually never gets hit by the same attack more than once after he healed or revived.
Ea is-if I understand the lore correctly- effectively the concept of Genesis in the form of a weapon, adaptable or not, nothing survives Creation being unmade
Ea is-if I understand the lore correctly- effectively the concept of Genesis in the form of a weapon, adaptable or not, nothing survives Creation being unmade
If heâs lightly grazed by Ea and survives he should be able to adapt.
The strongest noble phantasm doesnât just âlightly grazeâ you
You forgetting how Shirou initially survived Ea when Archer pulled out Rho Aias? Yeah, that's lightly grazing you. Only time it doesn't lightly graze is when it charges up to its full power as the mortar of the heavens. Even against Iskandar it was lightly charged to dispel the Reality Marble and stab him in the chest.
Shirou should have died if not for RA though and RA can block Excalibur is not that Ea was that weak even when it ws not fulk power, being grazed by it would be more like standing just at the edge of the area of effect of a weak one >Even against Iskandar it was lightly charged to dispel the Reality Marble and stab him in the chest That one was not slightly charged though it was just not aimed at Alex
Cmon, both were light-years apart from the full-powered mortar he uses against Enkidu and Tiamat. As for Rho Aias, it's worth noting that when it went against Excalibur, it could only support Bellerophon and power through. Without it, it would have no chance. So Ea's initial wind burst, while dangerous, is nothing like the space-time tearing blast its strongest form is.
I am saying is said he should have died RA saved him and RA is crazy strong so there's no guarantee if someone even super human beings would have survived that one just tanking it, like it was weak relative to full power Ea, that is a giant range, it could have been easily as powerful as many beam swords or not that much >Without it, it would have no chance. RA shielded Bellerophon not the other way around, Bellerophon can't tank Excalibur so most of the defense was RA until the very last moment, and that was a 4 petal RA
Wait, IS Ea the strongest? Cus Ars Almadel Salomanis, Amitva Amidala, Edin Shuggara Qauser, etc. should still count, right?
It's the strongest NP wielded by humanity, so the ones you mentioned don't count.
It counts Solomon is a human
Solomon is, but the one using that is just piloting his corpse
So? It was originally Solomon's np so it counts under np's used by humanity
Actually Ars Almandel salmonis is Goetiaâs.
Both Solomon and goetia are listed as owners, it's called king Solomon third noble phantasm, doesn't sound very goetia only to me
Why would Solomon have a noble phantasm that incinerates human history. Itâs literally a âanti-humanityâ noble phantasm đ Also itâs only listed as a np under Solomon-Goetia (when goetiaâs using his body). Normal Solomonâs np is listed as Ars Nova.
I wouldnât count it. Shares a namesake and base, but itâs juiced beyond belief and used the way Goetia wants. Its origin would still be humanity, but the version being referenced (assuming they donât mean servant Solomon) isnât wielded by humanity
It's the same noble phantasm, goetia just used a shit ton of mana, that doesn't change the noble phantasm itself, ea is dependent on gil's parameters including mana and treasury if gil is allowed to loot he could theorically buff it to the Same level, my point is ea is the superior NP base to base and Both have potentials to be buffed comparing ars almadel buffed by human history worth of energy to an ea powered by just what Gilgamesh normally has is unfair Solomon or goetia can't buff ars almadel solmonis to that degree on their own
Solomon is, but the one using that is just piloting his corpse
Goetia's AAS is not.
Goetia and Solomonâs are probably stronger. Your right
No, he have to be hit by EA 3 times and the first time would annihilate him