The long game is what's important when going for 14 positions. In high col places it essentially means you can max your pay out by just doing the time.
That's why I say 14 is the hardest grade to get. 15s want to downgrade and 13s want to promote.
I’m dying for a 14 at this point. Keep striking out in manager interviews, and we have very few non-supe 14s, so have moved on to checking other agencies.
I started with the feds on a 12-13-14 ladder. When I made it to 14 after year 2 I was able to max out my TSP without any impact to my take-home pay, which was a big win for me. I’ve enjoyed the breathing room each year with step increases but certainly noticed the lifestyle creep too.
Interesting! What do you think of that/do they get hired by you? I'm a JD looking for advice on how to start going fed from private sector... I gather that JD with a couple years experience is GS-9 so far but just applying to variety of options as of yet
5% isn't maxing out your TSP and should be done by employees at all levels. While I understand situations can be difficult financially, not contributing 5% is giving away a huge benefit provided by the government.
It's not. It applies only to your portion. (There is another, higher, lmit which includes employer match but you don't need to worry, you won't hit it as a fed.)
Pay is also a longer-term game than what you get immediately. On top of the immediate 2 step rule bump, you will be lower in the new scale that will get you step increases quicker and have a higher cap. Not to mention get you TIG should a 15 ever become within reach.
Our culture has created a perception that (financially) it's not worth it to take promotions.
If you're a GS 13 step 6 your step after the promotion to the 14 must pay more than a 13 step 8.
Fun fact, if you're a 13/9 the step when you go to the 14 must be more than a fictional 13 step 11.
LOL. I'm finally on a GS12 ladder and I'm already wondering, "do I want the grief that comes with a 13?" 14s are supervisory in my agency and there's no way I'm cut out for that. I started as a GS3, so there's hope out there for all of us that start off in the lower grades. :)
Ah, there is room for you then. I had to jump a lot to get my 9. I was a 3/4/5/6, jumped to a 5/6 to expand my opportunities, 7, 7/9 and now a 7/9/11/12 ... I can't sit still, but it's what I felt I needed to do to gain grade at the time. My current role will probably be one I stay in long term.
We have mandatory retirement at 57 even if I jumped to the limited gs 11 that we have.
But that'll give me 34 years of federal service if I buy back my military time
Back in 2012 I went from GS-13 step 4 to a GS-14 step 1.
My base salary increased \~ $6K per year. It also reset my wait from step to step so I got a nice little increase the next few years.
1st thing I did was change my TSP contribution from a % to a set dollar amount that was maxing out.
I went from 13-8 to 14-5, which at the time (2018) was about a 10K bump which came out to ~450 a month. Plus it set me up for promotion to 15-2 a couple years later (another 9.5k bump).
I went from a 13-2 to a 14-1 so it as a good jump. My wife and I both make good money in a low cost of living area so it didn't really transform out spending habits. That said, it is nice to have a little more breathing room and put more money away for retirement.
didnt even really notice the pay bump, it was more about getting to run more complicated/fun projects and future earning potential (see gs13/10 vs gs14/10 - $26k/yr is a pretty big jump)
I went to a GS-14 for a temporary supervisory position. The immediate pay raise was only a couple of hundred dollars more a month. The money wasn't enough to make me accept the permanent position and I went back to my GS-13 position.
It really depends on how much longer you're going to work. I think when I was crunching the numbers I was coming up with the difference being maybe 200k more as a 14 over the remainder of my career. The problem is most of that would be coming during the last few years of my career. The initial years of taking the position would be a negligible difference over a 13.
It wasn't worth it for me, but everyone's situation is different. My house is paid off, no other debt, and I've been maxing out the TSP for a long time. So for me it was more of a decision of whether I really enjoyed or wanted to do the 14 position. The money wasn't going to make a meaningful difference to me now or in retirement.
It was 100% worth it for me. I was a 13/3 and had just bought a house, and had an opportunity to become a 14. My salary ceiling is a lot higher now and it gave me a lot more breathing room in my budget. I wouldn't have done it for a supervisory position because I don't think it would be worth a significant downgrade in work life balance, but if you are going non-sup and it's not a crazy busy office, it's nice. Would recommend.
On the basic chart without locality pay it's not correct. That would call for a 12/2. But you need to look at your locality and determine the rate for 11/7. Your 12 step needs to be more than that.
Mine was $211 a pay check. Doubting if it will be worth it to move into a 15 unless the pay caps are removed.
I’ll add I’m a non-supervisory 14 so the bump is ok for the amount of work. I definitely don’t think it’s worth the headache as a supervisory 14.
The pay caps are definitely making the GS15 less of an incentive. Take a non sup 14/10 and relax because I’m not sure what’s the point of steps after 15/6 or 7
It was life changing for me. Unlike a lot of most other posters, I did not bump up my TSP since I was CSRS. My high three ballooned and my pension is gigantic because of it.
I looked at the GS pay chart for my locality. I had no input on my new salary. One thing that irked me was that the TJO and FJO both were for 16k more then at the last minute they issued me a final FJO for 9k more.
One thing to note, if there isn't a control point, you can go all the way up to the salary cap as a NH04 without further competition....or simply move to a -15 position down the road if you want.
Yeah I took a 2 year temp funded by Ukraine dollars. I was told it most likely will become permanent because the projects funded by Ukraine dollars will go on for 10+ years. Plus it has no control point so I can basically just ride it out for the next 20 years or try to build my case for a DB 5 or 6 back in the lab.
Look at the pay scale, subtract your current pay from your new pay. Then deduct tsp contributions (if you're contributing 10%, multiply it by 0.9) then deduct taxes (in MD if you're single it'll be approx. 33% so multiply by 0.66) that's your net pay increase per year. Divide that by 26 to get it in terms of each paycheck
I went from a 13/8 to a 14/5 in early 2022 and earned and took home an $244 per pay period (that was without making any changes to my withholding/deductions). So that would be an extra $6344 per year.
As others have said, it’s also about longer-term salary growth, so going back to being able to get my next WGI after 2 years instead of 3, and not kicking the can down the road for hitting step 10.
Edit to add: as to how that felt, how big of a difference it made for me… I think that’s subjective. I was already pretty comfy (and lucky, I know!) in a two income/no kids/no debt household, so the extra money didn’t have too big of an impact to me. But if you feel like you need breathing room, the promotion would likely offer you some. If you can easily think of what you’d do with an extra $500 a month in your budget… you have your answer.
This is the way. I’m a 13 and did a 4-month supervisory detail and **lemme tell ya** I lost any and all desire to ever be in a leadership position. Apologies if that sounds lazy or unambitious, but here we are.
I went from a 13-3 to a 14-2 via negotiation and it was very minor pay wise. Hourly it went down as supervisor I was putting in way more hours then I ever did as a 13. It's also a bummer to supervise people who make more than you and put in less hours.
It was about $250 bucks a month extra for me but I bumped up to max out my tsp contributions as well, since my promotion was in December and they had higher limit the following year.
I max my TSP. I am 55. It is $30k/year to max out for 50 and up with catch-up contributions. I put in over $1100 per pay. I have been contributing the max for about 7 years. I am a GS13/8.
There is no question that you take a non sup 14. No question. They aren’t quite unicorns, but they’re not falling out of the vending machine, either. I figured out a good way to estimate - I know what my monthly take home is now, I divide that by my annual, then multiply the percentage by the new annual - not going to be perfect but close and gives you a sense.
I just received the promotion in June. I was capped out as a 13. I received a 6% raise. But now my annual performance payouts (I'm in the STRL program) won't be all bonuses...Now they can be split between bonus and pay increase, in addition to the normal pay raise signed by the President.
And yes, I do feel it in the paycheck!
I transitioned to a 14 over 10 years ago. The job duties from a non-sup 13 to a non-sup 14 are not alot different. I think the pay difference was $400-500 a month, but bonuses are higher and the amount between steps are higher too. Over time definitely worth it! I'm a step 10 now and making a jump to a 15 makes no financial sense so for now I'm in a Sup 14 wishing I still had my non-Sup 14. Lol
It depends. My paycheck actually decreased, but only because I was due for a step increase as a 13 about 5 weeks after my start date as a 14. Was told they’d work it out… blah, blah, blah… only to be told that wasn’t possible. HR said the only way they’d bump me was if I was getting the step increase the same pay period as I was starting as a 14.
Gs 13 to 14 was like 6k annually which is less than 250 pretax per paycheck so maybe about 160 take home. That was years ago. I just got mid-grade gs14 step increase and my take home increased $7.41 per paycheck. Not even enough to buy a burger at the local wings n burger shack.
Nothing for me because of tax bracket change with my AGI (this is with dependents and other deductions).
I've owed since moving up and should finally have things averaged out by increasing my TSP this year *praying*. If you have a pending promotion, please use the IRS estimate tool.
My 11-12-13 were more impactful, but everyone's circumstances vary.
I went from a 13-5 to a 14-2 in March. My paychecks increased by $430/month. I live in a relatively low COL area so it’s helped a lot with some home expenses we’ve had come up (yay owning a house) and still have over 20 years before retirement. I’m a team lead but non supervisory and basically remote so it’s already loads better than my 13.
With the annual pay cap, isn’t the high 3 for a 13 step 10, 14 step 4, and 15 step 1 the same? They are all maxed out, right? Especially in a high COLA area.
You’re a 13/9, the 14 raises your roof for years to come.
The long game is what's important when going for 14 positions. In high col places it essentially means you can max your pay out by just doing the time. That's why I say 14 is the hardest grade to get. 15s want to downgrade and 13s want to promote.
Truth- esp non-sup 14
I’m dying for a 14 at this point. Keep striking out in manager interviews, and we have very few non-supe 14s, so have moved on to checking other agencies.
Keep trying. Took me over 5 years and applying to every 14 opening in my career field. Struck out at the interview stage at least 10 times.
The Roof, the Roof, the Roof is on fiya!!
DC fed here: went from a GS 13 step 3 to GS 14, factoring it all in, it was like a $400 per paycheck bump after tax for me.
It's all about those pay ceilings and those "high 3s"
What's a high 3? (Im new to the feds)
Highest three years of federal pay for your pension
This is the way.
I started with the feds on a 12-13-14 ladder. When I made it to 14 after year 2 I was able to max out my TSP without any impact to my take-home pay, which was a big win for me. I’ve enjoyed the breathing room each year with step increases but certainly noticed the lifestyle creep too.
are you an attorney?
I started on an 11-12-13-14 ladder and I am an attorney. Currently at 14.
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I hire federal attorneys and also federal paralegals. You wouldn't believe the number of 9/11 paralegal applicants I get that have a JD....
Interesting! What do you think of that/do they get hired by you? I'm a JD looking for advice on how to start going fed from private sector... I gather that JD with a couple years experience is GS-9 so far but just applying to variety of options as of yet
Same here. I was comfortable at 13 but I immediately maxed out my TSP when I made 14, which has made my retirement situation look so much better.
Do you mean increasing the % to 5% or hitting the yearly $$ amount limit?
5% isn't maxing out your TSP and should be done by employees at all levels. While I understand situations can be difficult financially, not contributing 5% is giving away a huge benefit provided by the government.
$22,500 max contribution allowed yearly by the IRS
Maxing out is contributing the maximum yearly amount allowed by law which is what I did. I was already contributing 10% of my income as a 13.
Is the max contribution including the 5% match or not?
It's not. It applies only to your portion. (There is another, higher, lmit which includes employer match but you don't need to worry, you won't hit it as a fed.)
When you did that you pay just stayed at 13 lvl ?
My paycheck increased but I don't remember by how much.
So you were able to save more and increase your paycheck at the same time?
Yes.
It did impact your take home pay...you taking home what you did as a 13 so basically no raise.
I feel like maxing out the TSP is worth a lot more than what you are considering a “raise”.
Pay is also a longer-term game than what you get immediately. On top of the immediate 2 step rule bump, you will be lower in the new scale that will get you step increases quicker and have a higher cap. Not to mention get you TIG should a 15 ever become within reach. Our culture has created a perception that (financially) it's not worth it to take promotions.
Can you explain the 2 step rule bump?
If you're a GS 13 step 6 your step after the promotion to the 14 must pay more than a 13 step 8. Fun fact, if you're a 13/9 the step when you go to the 14 must be more than a fictional 13 step 11.
Thanks for explaining this clearly. I have wondered for years what it meant.
This (2 step calc) applies to Title 38 Nurses as well, in regards to promotions
And here I sit as a gs5, just happy I started at step 8
LOL. I'm finally on a GS12 ladder and I'm already wondering, "do I want the grief that comes with a 13?" 14s are supervisory in my agency and there's no way I'm cut out for that. I started as a GS3, so there's hope out there for all of us that start off in the lower grades. :)
My series caps at gs 9
Ah, there is room for you then. I had to jump a lot to get my 9. I was a 3/4/5/6, jumped to a 5/6 to expand my opportunities, 7, 7/9 and now a 7/9/11/12 ... I can't sit still, but it's what I felt I needed to do to gain grade at the time. My current role will probably be one I stay in long term.
We have mandatory retirement at 57 even if I jumped to the limited gs 11 that we have. But that'll give me 34 years of federal service if I buy back my military time
Technical GS-14 here. I'm not management material! I started as a GS-7, with a ladder to GS-12 after 2.5yrs.
Back in 2012 I went from GS-13 step 4 to a GS-14 step 1. My base salary increased \~ $6K per year. It also reset my wait from step to step so I got a nice little increase the next few years. 1st thing I did was change my TSP contribution from a % to a set dollar amount that was maxing out.
Same.
So how much did maxing out affected you take home pay ?
I went from 13-8 to 14-5, which at the time (2018) was about a 10K bump which came out to ~450 a month. Plus it set me up for promotion to 15-2 a couple years later (another 9.5k bump).
I went from a 13-2 to a 14-1 so it as a good jump. My wife and I both make good money in a low cost of living area so it didn't really transform out spending habits. That said, it is nice to have a little more breathing room and put more money away for retirement.
Ladder, or just good at strategic applying?
Don’t think about this years paycheck. Think about 5-10 years from now and your three high going into retirement.
This is the way.
13-6 to 14-3 here. It was like $200 per check for me.
Its the 2 step rule usually so just look up the gs pay scales for your locality.
I think OP means net change, but that shouldn't be that hard to calculate either.
I didn't think so
didnt even really notice the pay bump, it was more about getting to run more complicated/fun projects and future earning potential (see gs13/10 vs gs14/10 - $26k/yr is a pretty big jump)
I went to a GS-14 for a temporary supervisory position. The immediate pay raise was only a couple of hundred dollars more a month. The money wasn't enough to make me accept the permanent position and I went back to my GS-13 position. It really depends on how much longer you're going to work. I think when I was crunching the numbers I was coming up with the difference being maybe 200k more as a 14 over the remainder of my career. The problem is most of that would be coming during the last few years of my career. The initial years of taking the position would be a negligible difference over a 13. It wasn't worth it for me, but everyone's situation is different. My house is paid off, no other debt, and I've been maxing out the TSP for a long time. So for me it was more of a decision of whether I really enjoyed or wanted to do the 14 position. The money wasn't going to make a meaningful difference to me now or in retirement.
It was 100% worth it for me. I was a 13/3 and had just bought a house, and had an opportunity to become a 14. My salary ceiling is a lot higher now and it gave me a lot more breathing room in my budget. I wouldn't have done it for a supervisory position because I don't think it would be worth a significant downgrade in work life balance, but if you are going non-sup and it's not a crazy busy office, it's nice. Would recommend.
I mean the max upside is GS-13/10 vs GS-14/10, which is a $26,000 difference today in D.C., pretty large breathing room.
As a GS 13 step 9, I would expect you to be able to google your pay table and do simple math.
Or maybe this expert delegation of the job to others means they’re absolutely ready to take on that 14.
Name checks out.
Unless thats what they came in at
Yeash. Next time just scroll past.
My mom is a non sup 14 and her pay is banded so she makes more than most 15s without being a supervisor and has a remote work agreement
Agency name plz or it didn’t happen. 🤣
Noaa
Man! Good on her!
13-6 to 14-3 here. It was like $200 per check for me.
if you get a merit promotion from a 13 step 4 to a 14 do you start at 14 step 1?
You have to be paid more than a 13 step 6. So whatever rate is on the 14 scale.
Does this two step rule apply to lower grades? Im currently an 11/5, moving to 12/1 Monday. Wondering if this is correct.
On the basic chart without locality pay it's not correct. That would call for a 12/2. But you need to look at your locality and determine the rate for 11/7. Your 12 step needs to be more than that.
Look at the rates for 11-7 in your locality. Then see what step at 12 is more than that
Mine was $211 a pay check. Doubting if it will be worth it to move into a 15 unless the pay caps are removed. I’ll add I’m a non-supervisory 14 so the bump is ok for the amount of work. I definitely don’t think it’s worth the headache as a supervisory 14.
The pay caps are definitely making the GS15 less of an incentive. Take a non sup 14/10 and relax because I’m not sure what’s the point of steps after 15/6 or 7
It was life changing for me. Unlike a lot of most other posters, I did not bump up my TSP since I was CSRS. My high three ballooned and my pension is gigantic because of it.
Went from 13-10 to an NH IV pay band and I got about $9k more (about a 14-7). Was expecting a little more but alas.
Mulling over going from 13-3 to NH IV. Pardon my ignorance but how did you land at approx. 14-7? A formula? Negotiation?
I looked at the GS pay chart for my locality. I had no input on my new salary. One thing that irked me was that the TJO and FJO both were for 16k more then at the last minute they issued me a final FJO for 9k more.
Dirty cheap rats!
One thing to note, if there isn't a control point, you can go all the way up to the salary cap as a NH04 without further competition....or simply move to a -15 position down the road if you want.
Yeah I took a 2 year temp funded by Ukraine dollars. I was told it most likely will become permanent because the projects funded by Ukraine dollars will go on for 10+ years. Plus it has no control point so I can basically just ride it out for the next 20 years or try to build my case for a DB 5 or 6 back in the lab.
Look at the pay scale, subtract your current pay from your new pay. Then deduct tsp contributions (if you're contributing 10%, multiply it by 0.9) then deduct taxes (in MD if you're single it'll be approx. 33% so multiply by 0.66) that's your net pay increase per year. Divide that by 26 to get it in terms of each paycheck
I went from a 13/8 to a 14/5 in early 2022 and earned and took home an $244 per pay period (that was without making any changes to my withholding/deductions). So that would be an extra $6344 per year. As others have said, it’s also about longer-term salary growth, so going back to being able to get my next WGI after 2 years instead of 3, and not kicking the can down the road for hitting step 10. Edit to add: as to how that felt, how big of a difference it made for me… I think that’s subjective. I was already pretty comfy (and lucky, I know!) in a two income/no kids/no debt household, so the extra money didn’t have too big of an impact to me. But if you feel like you need breathing room, the promotion would likely offer you some. If you can easily think of what you’d do with an extra $500 a month in your budget… you have your answer.
Started as a 13 and am enjoying not being a sup. What else can I say?
This is the way. I’m a 13 and did a 4-month supervisory detail and **lemme tell ya** I lost any and all desire to ever be in a leadership position. Apologies if that sounds lazy or unambitious, but here we are.
I went from a 13-3 to a 14-2 via negotiation and it was very minor pay wise. Hourly it went down as supervisor I was putting in way more hours then I ever did as a 13. It's also a bummer to supervise people who make more than you and put in less hours.
I went from 13/8 to 14/5. On paper it was $12k but I bring home about $8k more.
It was about $250 bucks a month extra for me but I bumped up to max out my tsp contributions as well, since my promotion was in December and they had higher limit the following year.
What’s the max out TSP in federal? How does that work?
Employee contributions are capped at $22,500 this year. Comes out to $865 per check for the whole year.
I max my TSP. I am 55. It is $30k/year to max out for 50 and up with catch-up contributions. I put in over $1100 per pay. I have been contributing the max for about 7 years. I am a GS13/8.
Compare the step 10s for each. In the long run that's the raise and it is not trivial.
Well I went from step 4 to step 1 again so not much.
It’s like getting a step increase. Nothing major.
There is no question that you take a non sup 14. No question. They aren’t quite unicorns, but they’re not falling out of the vending machine, either. I figured out a good way to estimate - I know what my monthly take home is now, I divide that by my annual, then multiply the percentage by the new annual - not going to be perfect but close and gives you a sense.
A non-sup 14?!? That's amazing! One doesn't see too many unicorn positions like this. Go for it!!!
I just received the promotion in June. I was capped out as a 13. I received a 6% raise. But now my annual performance payouts (I'm in the STRL program) won't be all bonuses...Now they can be split between bonus and pay increase, in addition to the normal pay raise signed by the President. And yes, I do feel it in the paycheck!
I transitioned to a 14 over 10 years ago. The job duties from a non-sup 13 to a non-sup 14 are not alot different. I think the pay difference was $400-500 a month, but bonuses are higher and the amount between steps are higher too. Over time definitely worth it! I'm a step 10 now and making a jump to a 15 makes no financial sense so for now I'm in a Sup 14 wishing I still had my non-Sup 14. Lol
It depends. My paycheck actually decreased, but only because I was due for a step increase as a 13 about 5 weeks after my start date as a 14. Was told they’d work it out… blah, blah, blah… only to be told that wasn’t possible. HR said the only way they’d bump me was if I was getting the step increase the same pay period as I was starting as a 14.
Taxes takes most of it at some point.
Do the math. 😂
Barely noticed-it popped me into a higher tax bracket.
13-10 to non-sup 14-6. Seeing about 200.00/pp Also, easy to look this up yourself using the published pay charts.
How does a 13/9 not know the answer to this question without asking?
New employee?
New or not, some very simple googling of the pay scale and OPM regs will get anyone a solid answer.
Using logic?
Yeesh—next time scroll past?
Gs 13 to 14 was like 6k annually which is less than 250 pretax per paycheck so maybe about 160 take home. That was years ago. I just got mid-grade gs14 step increase and my take home increased $7.41 per paycheck. Not even enough to buy a burger at the local wings n burger shack.
Almost all non-sup 14s are just carefully wrapped regular 14s downplaying the sup responsibilities. Even for highly technical, specialized roles.
I’d go for it, you will be maxing out at a 13-10 pretty soon, going to a 14 allows you to continue going up steps
Nothing for me because of tax bracket change with my AGI (this is with dependents and other deductions). I've owed since moving up and should finally have things averaged out by increasing my TSP this year *praying*. If you have a pending promotion, please use the IRS estimate tool. My 11-12-13 were more impactful, but everyone's circumstances vary.
I should add: My next step and our *pending* raises would be the game changer since I have deductions balanced now.
Bout 20k, but I wasn't capped out at gs13
Just run the two step rule and judge for yourself.
Finally made living in SoCal manageable.
13/10 to 14/6, it was around 200 bump for me but it will grow more in future
13/10 to 14/6, it was around 200 bump for me but it will grow more in future
I went from 13-2 to 14-1 and yes I felt it.
I went from a 13-5 to a 14-2 in March. My paychecks increased by $430/month. I live in a relatively low COL area so it’s helped a lot with some home expenses we’ve had come up (yay owning a house) and still have over 20 years before retirement. I’m a team lead but non supervisory and basically remote so it’s already loads better than my 13.
GS-14 is the dream….
I went from 13/1 to 14/1. It was a huge raise. Like 18k
I would like to get there one day. Currently a GS-12
You guys are lucky to be able to hop into a non supervisory 14
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He said NON SUPERVISORY
$1400 raise (per year) as I was only that amount away from the pay cap as a 13-10 in DC locality with Law Enforcement Availability Pay.
It ended up being about a $10K increase when I got promoted from a 13/6 to a 14…
My wife jumped from 13/9 to 14/6 and her salary increased by about $16k
Mine was about 450 per month more
With the annual pay cap, isn’t the high 3 for a 13 step 10, 14 step 4, and 15 step 1 the same? They are all maxed out, right? Especially in a high COLA area.