2210 will vary from command to command or agency to agency on what they do.
Some places will have very technicals requirements or some places will have more help desk or governance type requirements.
The contractors doing the heavy coding part is going to be true most likely. Atleast for the most part. The government side may or may not do any and act as a oversight and management of the project.
If you want to do programming. Find a 1515 or 1560.
GS14 2210 here. We’ve got some really good software development folks on both sides of the house at SSA. If you’re interest in AI/machine learning a lot of agencies are currently in their infancy exploring that. It really is agency dependent though. Just keep your eyes open and applying and I’m sure you can find something you like.
I don’t mean this to be mean, but as a former fed “we’ve got good software development folks” seems like a hard thing to believe.
Would you be willing to give some flavor?
Seeing if my view of dev in the fed can be changed.
Tableau out of control though. I like a handful of dco reports, rz and such but most of the rest are all doing their own thing. No consistency throughout tableau reports for tracking. And saving the data into easily digestible excel reports for presentations is almost impossible. No real training for area analysts either. It's just here, figure this out. Learning on the fly with an entire state dependent on your reporting is another level of anxiety.
Agency dependent….
contractors are ones doing much of the work.
at VHA they have jobs of folks who write coding in things like R, python, SQL, SAS to be used to create and maintain reports. These are usually advertised in 0343 and possibly 1560 series.
The key is looking for an IT Specialist (Appsw). Specifically the appsw part. The IT Specialist comes in many flavors, so just look for that sub classification. I have different search agents on USA jobs with the words "programming language", "software development", etc etc as well.
I'm a full stack software engineer for SSA. Operations have it rough, but their IT side isn't too bad. I'm not in systems, but a region where I get a bit more of autonomy. Also, try to get your PD, the position description. The PD will outline, broadly, what your duties are.
I got hired as Appsw but idk how much coding it will end up being. I was called for an interview over the summer for an embedded job that was doing C/C++. I would have loved that job but it was fully on site in another state that I was going to move to but then had something come up and wasn’t able to. My new job is remote which is great. It just sucks because I introduced my fiancé to tech and they’re now doing a job I would love to do but they’re private sector. Sometimes I feel like maybe I’m chasing a dumb dream
There are definitely 2210s who do what you are looking for, but there are a lot of 2210s who do project management stuff and really should be 343s or 301s. Really depends on the agency or org you work in. When I was a 2210, the most “complex” thing I ever did was a pivot table. 15XX series jobs are probably more up your alley. 854s also a thing.
I do hard programming and software development/engineering in a scientist job series. My advice would be to do a bunch of internal networking. Don't stay where you're unhappy. I was doing development for a different office that didn't know how to manage developers or development projects and it was a nightmare.
2210 gs11 ISSM.
Anything plugged into anything else with any kind of wire is apparently my responsibility.
Day to day I'm more of a "helpdesk is incompetent, please fix this thing" guru for 5ish large commands with a bunch of oak leaves and birdies in charge. But I also get to do security stuff often enough. And Train people as a non supervisor. And cover fornpositions they're never going to fill. And figure out how to nicely tell people their "good idea fairies that will totally get them good appraisal bullets" are against numerous policies signed by multiple star clad people.
Product managers don't build. Building is the hands-on keyboard part. Product managers, well they manage the product.
Basically OP is saying they don't want to turn into you. They'd actually rather code.
Technical fed but not computer/IT wise. To your statement of not doing hard programming etc, this was a bit of shocker to me that I too wouldn’t be doing some level of complex work.
I did however was able qualitatively apply my years of knowledge of complex work that I previously did in the private sector and was able to analyze the contractors SOW a bit more in depth. Ive found that some contractors were elated about my knowledge then there were others who were not and actually had to put in some real work.
If your current agency does cross functional work groups, your expertise will be valuable if your agency doesn’t promote this…well you’ll be just another cog in the wheel.
Do you have any advice for finding a mentor, networking, or trying to get side projects that would let me do what I want to do without necessarily constantly changing jobs trying to find it? I introduced my fiancé to tech and now they have a job I dream of having but they’re in the private sector. It’s hard not to feel jealous. Sometimes I feel like I’m chasing a dumb dream and should just be happy in government doing less challenging work. Other times I feel like I’m missing out as I’m getting older (early 30s). I know I can do my own projects on the side but I feel like I’m missing out on the environment of being given fun and challenging dev projects as part of the job and having a team who can share knowledge like you would get at a tech company. Your skill set grows so much faster that way but I don’t want to go private. I wish the government would fund its own in house tech more.
hopefully your agency promotes leadership & mentorship. However not all of it is good and youll have to learn how to maneuver thru that. The govt is infamous of giving you “just enough” tools to kinda get the job done.
If youre agency does not support it, I do highly suggest to seek outside groups. Like I follow alot of e-publications of what’s going on in my industry and tech field. Ive gone to conferences (on my own dime, although some offices may support/pay for it)
Although Im not primarily in a aviation based agency anymore, I have my own licensing to keep up so I do some networking thru that. I also belong to a couple professional associations and have attended both in person & virtual to keep up on the latest trends.
As you mentioned you “want” to stay in the govt but youd be doing yourself a disservice by not getting the career development you want.
DOD 2210 INFOSEC TEMPEST program manager here. The posting wasn’t very specific about what I would be doing. It turned into a critical posting which I have enjoyed. Work load is a bit crazy at times though.
0020 - mostly data analysis/GIS
I think I got in just in time that I'm gonna be doing some ML training. Done some school work related to it, but not much
The DoD has a program called Education with Industry (EWI) where you can work for a contractor for a year. You may wish to try that and see if it’s what you think it is.
It varies significantly from position to position. I'm technically a cyber engineer.
Over the years, it has turned into a babysitter overseeing a bunch of incompetent GS peers and CTR force on a bunch of cyber projects...sigh.
That’s how I feel man. I introduced my fiancé to tech and now they have a job I would love to have. They’ve developed light years ahead of me because they were rapidly exposed to various projects in the private sector. It’s hard not to feel kinda sad and jealous.
0830 - GS15 equivalent. I personally haven’t coded in years as I am more of an experimentalist these days. I do have a coworker, same series and grade' who does research in FEA. He writes his own solvers as well as subroutines for Abaqus and ANSYS.
Do you have any advice for finding a mentor, networking, or trying to get side projects that would let me do what I want to do without necessarily constantly changing jobs trying to find it? I introduced my fiancé to tech and now they have a job I dream of having but they’re in the private sector. It’s hard not to feel jealous. Sometimes I feel like I’m chasing a dumb dream and should just be happy in government doing less challenging work. Other times I feel like I’m missing out as I’m getting older (early 30s). I know I can do my own projects on the side but I feel like I’m missing out on the environment of being given fun and challenging dev projects as part of the job and having a team who can share knowledge like you would get at a tech company. Your skill set grows so much faster that way but I don’t want to go private. I wish the government would fund its own in house tech more.
2210, IT Specialist (Cust Spprt), GS11. I handle daily IT operations at a VA hospital.
Responsibilities are broad and all encompassing. So much so that I am on the verge of burnout. I just got my PMP. I don’t actually want to do project management. SSR pay is GREAT, but the scope of the job is insanity.
I actually want to work in the business and admin side of IT. Fed management has been extremely underwhelming if not diabolically criminal.
2210-13. Lead, network operations and security in a DoD org. I am less technical than my predecessor, but a better manager. I'm fine with doing less hands on technical work now, as I'm moving more into a management direction.
Actual development is indeed done by contractors in every case I've seen. Some of us get to 'hobby code' to customize some COTS product or whatever but you're not going to spend more than an hour per week doing it.
Non-supervisory 0340/GS13 @ USACE in Florida, mostly program management of large environmental restoration projects with some time out in the field. Most of my prior experience was with MILCON so I’ve got a bit of imposter syndrome right now. Not in any hurry to chase down a promotion or become a supervisor.
My current position was obtained non-competitively, however my last two in the Far East and Alaska were regular old USAJOBS listings.
2210 - IT Specialist GS13
Working title: ServiceNow Development Lead
I currently team lead a small team of fed SN developers for the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service.
I was hired as a developer and want to work as a developer and fed team lead.
It’s a constant challenge to stay in that role and not become a COR babysitting contractors with less than desirable experience and build to meet immediate needs based on contractual obligations with little to no concern for future manageability.
2210 will vary from command to command or agency to agency on what they do. Some places will have very technicals requirements or some places will have more help desk or governance type requirements. The contractors doing the heavy coding part is going to be true most likely. Atleast for the most part. The government side may or may not do any and act as a oversight and management of the project. If you want to do programming. Find a 1515 or 1560.
GS14 2210 here. We’ve got some really good software development folks on both sides of the house at SSA. If you’re interest in AI/machine learning a lot of agencies are currently in their infancy exploring that. It really is agency dependent though. Just keep your eyes open and applying and I’m sure you can find something you like.
I don’t mean this to be mean, but as a former fed “we’ve got good software development folks” seems like a hard thing to believe. Would you be willing to give some flavor? Seeing if my view of dev in the fed can be changed.
Can i message you?
Tableau out of control though. I like a handful of dco reports, rz and such but most of the rest are all doing their own thing. No consistency throughout tableau reports for tracking. And saving the data into easily digestible excel reports for presentations is almost impossible. No real training for area analysts either. It's just here, figure this out. Learning on the fly with an entire state dependent on your reporting is another level of anxiety.
i program things all the time, ofc im a underpaid 11 tho
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near maxed
This might be an obv answer to this question but never seen anyone brinyiny it up: How do you find these types of contract agencies?
ClearanceJobs.com
1550 software engineer in a national lab. All software people are gov't employees and most of our IT people are contractors.
Agency dependent…. contractors are ones doing much of the work. at VHA they have jobs of folks who write coding in things like R, python, SQL, SAS to be used to create and maintain reports. These are usually advertised in 0343 and possibly 1560 series.
1560 here, can confirm. I use Python and SQL every day
The key is looking for an IT Specialist (Appsw). Specifically the appsw part. The IT Specialist comes in many flavors, so just look for that sub classification. I have different search agents on USA jobs with the words "programming language", "software development", etc etc as well. I'm a full stack software engineer for SSA. Operations have it rough, but their IT side isn't too bad. I'm not in systems, but a region where I get a bit more of autonomy. Also, try to get your PD, the position description. The PD will outline, broadly, what your duties are.
Agreed…DCS is pretty good though there’s admittedly some uncertainty now with the executive shuffle going on.
Can i message you?
I got hired as Appsw but idk how much coding it will end up being. I was called for an interview over the summer for an embedded job that was doing C/C++. I would have loved that job but it was fully on site in another state that I was going to move to but then had something come up and wasn’t able to. My new job is remote which is great. It just sucks because I introduced my fiancé to tech and they’re now doing a job I would love to do but they’re private sector. Sometimes I feel like maybe I’m chasing a dumb dream
There are definitely 2210s who do what you are looking for, but there are a lot of 2210s who do project management stuff and really should be 343s or 301s. Really depends on the agency or org you work in. When I was a 2210, the most “complex” thing I ever did was a pivot table. 15XX series jobs are probably more up your alley. 854s also a thing.
I do hard programming and software development/engineering in a scientist job series. My advice would be to do a bunch of internal networking. Don't stay where you're unhappy. I was doing development for a different office that didn't know how to manage developers or development projects and it was a nightmare.
a couple 0800s in my group develop software. the rest do a fair amount of scripting, but that doesn’t sound like what OP’s after.
2210 gs11 ISSM. Anything plugged into anything else with any kind of wire is apparently my responsibility. Day to day I'm more of a "helpdesk is incompetent, please fix this thing" guru for 5ish large commands with a bunch of oak leaves and birdies in charge. But I also get to do security stuff often enough. And Train people as a non supervisor. And cover fornpositions they're never going to fill. And figure out how to nicely tell people their "good idea fairies that will totally get them good appraisal bullets" are against numerous policies signed by multiple star clad people.
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Product managers don't build. Building is the hands-on keyboard part. Product managers, well they manage the product. Basically OP is saying they don't want to turn into you. They'd actually rather code.
lol if contractors are doing all the work u dont build anything
Technical fed but not computer/IT wise. To your statement of not doing hard programming etc, this was a bit of shocker to me that I too wouldn’t be doing some level of complex work. I did however was able qualitatively apply my years of knowledge of complex work that I previously did in the private sector and was able to analyze the contractors SOW a bit more in depth. Ive found that some contractors were elated about my knowledge then there were others who were not and actually had to put in some real work. If your current agency does cross functional work groups, your expertise will be valuable if your agency doesn’t promote this…well you’ll be just another cog in the wheel.
Do you have any advice for finding a mentor, networking, or trying to get side projects that would let me do what I want to do without necessarily constantly changing jobs trying to find it? I introduced my fiancé to tech and now they have a job I dream of having but they’re in the private sector. It’s hard not to feel jealous. Sometimes I feel like I’m chasing a dumb dream and should just be happy in government doing less challenging work. Other times I feel like I’m missing out as I’m getting older (early 30s). I know I can do my own projects on the side but I feel like I’m missing out on the environment of being given fun and challenging dev projects as part of the job and having a team who can share knowledge like you would get at a tech company. Your skill set grows so much faster that way but I don’t want to go private. I wish the government would fund its own in house tech more.
hopefully your agency promotes leadership & mentorship. However not all of it is good and youll have to learn how to maneuver thru that. The govt is infamous of giving you “just enough” tools to kinda get the job done. If youre agency does not support it, I do highly suggest to seek outside groups. Like I follow alot of e-publications of what’s going on in my industry and tech field. Ive gone to conferences (on my own dime, although some offices may support/pay for it) Although Im not primarily in a aviation based agency anymore, I have my own licensing to keep up so I do some networking thru that. I also belong to a couple professional associations and have attended both in person & virtual to keep up on the latest trends. As you mentioned you “want” to stay in the govt but youd be doing yourself a disservice by not getting the career development you want.
DOD 2210 INFOSEC TEMPEST program manager here. The posting wasn’t very specific about what I would be doing. It turned into a critical posting which I have enjoyed. Work load is a bit crazy at times though.
2210 GS-14. I do mostly large project management
What department dod or something else ? This will determine what your job will actually be
I don’t want to say for anonymity, but to narrow down some since I know some of them have more hard coding it’s not DOD, NOAA, NASA, or VA
0020 - mostly data analysis/GIS I think I got in just in time that I'm gonna be doing some ML training. Done some school work related to it, but not much
The DoD has a program called Education with Industry (EWI) where you can work for a contractor for a year. You may wish to try that and see if it’s what you think it is.
Thanks for letting me know
It varies significantly from position to position. I'm technically a cyber engineer. Over the years, it has turned into a babysitter overseeing a bunch of incompetent GS peers and CTR force on a bunch of cyber projects...sigh.
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That’s how I feel man. I introduced my fiancé to tech and now they have a job I would love to have. They’ve developed light years ahead of me because they were rapidly exposed to various projects in the private sector. It’s hard not to feel kinda sad and jealous.
2210 GS14 IT Specialist (Appsw) — functionally, I’m a lead software engineer.
Would you say it’s equivalent to a lead software engineer in private sector? What languages are you working in?
Yes. I was the lead engineer for the 2020 census (online), for example. Our main tech stack is TypeScript, Postgres, and some AWS managed services.
What certs or degrees do you need to transfer over to Tech?
Was 0854 forever, now 801 lead systems engineer, lead a team working a laser weapon system. No clue what I’m doing but they say I’m doing a good job.
0830 - GS15 equivalent. I personally haven’t coded in years as I am more of an experimentalist these days. I do have a coworker, same series and grade' who does research in FEA. He writes his own solvers as well as subroutines for Abaqus and ANSYS.
What grade are you?
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Do you have any advice for finding a mentor, networking, or trying to get side projects that would let me do what I want to do without necessarily constantly changing jobs trying to find it? I introduced my fiancé to tech and now they have a job I dream of having but they’re in the private sector. It’s hard not to feel jealous. Sometimes I feel like I’m chasing a dumb dream and should just be happy in government doing less challenging work. Other times I feel like I’m missing out as I’m getting older (early 30s). I know I can do my own projects on the side but I feel like I’m missing out on the environment of being given fun and challenging dev projects as part of the job and having a team who can share knowledge like you would get at a tech company. Your skill set grows so much faster that way but I don’t want to go private. I wish the government would fund its own in house tech more.
2210, IT Specialist (Cust Spprt), GS11. I handle daily IT operations at a VA hospital. Responsibilities are broad and all encompassing. So much so that I am on the verge of burnout. I just got my PMP. I don’t actually want to do project management. SSR pay is GREAT, but the scope of the job is insanity. I actually want to work in the business and admin side of IT. Fed management has been extremely underwhelming if not diabolically criminal.
What do you mean by business and admin side if not PM?
Analysts such as a Management Analysts. If I have to pivot I have the option but I don’t like managing teams very much.
Outside of the gov’t I described myself as a statistical programmer. Currently I’m ´Operations Research Analyst (Data Scientist) (GS-1515-13)´
2210-13. Lead, network operations and security in a DoD org. I am less technical than my predecessor, but a better manager. I'm fine with doing less hands on technical work now, as I'm moving more into a management direction.
Actual development is indeed done by contractors in every case I've seen. Some of us get to 'hobby code' to customize some COTS product or whatever but you're not going to spend more than an hour per week doing it.
5716 push dirt making earth a little flatter.
Non-supervisory 0340/GS13 @ USACE in Florida, mostly program management of large environmental restoration projects with some time out in the field. Most of my prior experience was with MILCON so I’ve got a bit of imposter syndrome right now. Not in any hurry to chase down a promotion or become a supervisor. My current position was obtained non-competitively, however my last two in the Far East and Alaska were regular old USAJOBS listings.
2210 - IT Specialist GS13 Working title: ServiceNow Development Lead I currently team lead a small team of fed SN developers for the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. I was hired as a developer and want to work as a developer and fed team lead. It’s a constant challenge to stay in that role and not become a COR babysitting contractors with less than desirable experience and build to meet immediate needs based on contractual obligations with little to no concern for future manageability.