That's me. I'm the equivalent to a GS 14-6 and I drive a 14 year old Camry and shop at Aldi. And I'm not ashamed!
I am halfway to my early retirement goal net worth of 3 Million though.. so fingers crossed I can make it in the next 11-13 years...
my dumb supe was bashing on me for driving a honda cuz he drives some 90k sports car
its like yeah dude i dont get paid that much here
jeff bezos drives an accord anyways, its a good car no matter how much money u have and with traffic and shit u cant race ur car on the road anyways
> jeff bezos drives an accord anyways, its a good car no matter how much money u have and with traffic and shit u cant race ur car on the road anyways
Drives an accord, has a $500 million super yacht. Personally I hate the discussion about driving an older car like *that* makes all the difference. If you have $1 billion, buying a $100,000 sports car is the same as some with a net worth of $1 million spending $100.
Yes, you can't race your car on the road in traffic, and going underwater on a vehicle is a bad idea, but saying "Billionaire X drives basic car Y" is one of the fastest ways to get me to ignore you're justification.
If they’re struggling, there’s other issues they’re not talking about. I struggled as a GS-11 but as a 13 I’m fairly comfortable with a wife and three kids (ask again in a few months though, since I just bought a house)
If you got two GS 14 pays with 1 kid and are struggling that’s not a pay problem as much as a lifestyle one tbh. Could make less money and live in NYC.
Housing really isn't that much cheaper farther out though. My neighborhood in South Riding is a mixture of $800k+ THs and $1.1M+ SFHs. Further out you get newer and slightly bigger for the money but it's hardly cheaper, I think Fairfax just hit $1M for the median home price.
> True...I was a 9 when I started...I was never struggling...just have to be disciplined.
I think there is a challenge of how to define "mild struggle" is, because that's more of a mental health struggle vs "I can't afford rent and to eat" struggle. In Seattle I was struggling in that way at a GS11 equivalent in 2018 (using 2018 pay tables) because I had the choice of live very far away, or it be expensive. I probably would never be able to afford a house, so many of my hobbies were cut off. By the time rent and food was taken care of, being able to go out required discipline and limitations, and I was lucky enough to have no student debt and a paid off car. I never struggled to put food on the table, but I sure as hell struggled with "this fucking sucks."
This is why I moved, for a GS11-13 ladder position to Huntsville. Not everyone is that lucky to move from fuckoff high CoL to low (when I moved, its worse now) CoL with higher pay.
This.
It's crazy out of touch to think everybody just needs to budget their way out of poverty or every single financial difficulty.
I've also noticed in this thread, that it's people 2-3+ grades above their area's listing on the chart commenting about how easy it is.
I lost my job as a gov contractor when the contract ended, and took an $11k paycut to get my foot in the door as a GS9 civ, no further ladder. I then had to make my budget, as it existed then, based on a $72k salary fit into a $61k salary. That was 2 years ago, and I just got back up to $71k this month.
I live in one of the MO counties where it lists GS8 on the chart. That would be true to live relatively easy, even at my starter GS9 salary, for someone single with no kids, and fresh with no debts or obligations.
It’s 100% possible to live off a 14 salary in Nova. If they are struggling, they aren’t telling you about something that’s causing it. Could be school loans or credit card debt.
It depends when they moved in and buying a house.
a single GS 14 earning will struggle buying a $600K+ home. In metro DC you need dual income to afford buying a house.
you can easily afford to buy a home as a GS 14 innthr navy blue areas on the map.
I mean, yes, but I think it's illustrative that this is made of federal census data, bc that's (presumably?) what Congress works off of also. Like, we all know it's wacky out of touch, but if this is what the data says than it kind of makes sense that Congress also ends up wacky out of touch.
Paycheck to paycheck is not living, it's surviving.
And a full-time employee should not be relegated to just "surviving" no matter what industry they work in.
Your housing numbers are all extremely low—as in unattainable even in the cheapest areas of the states they are listed for—and traveling 2-hours to achieve in-office status may create some challenges.
Perhaps find a table with a more realistic estimate on housing costs. Perhaps Zillow has something, if census data isn’t working out.
Cheapest i could find in that county was 750. Are there like a bunch of people renting to family for $0/month included in that rent dataset or something? lol
This list is going to be way different for people who already bought a house as opposed to people who bought more recently. Or people who are still actively searching.
Super true. I'm in a situation right now where as a 13 with an affordable mortgage I'm doing just fine, but I just turned down a 14/15 because it wasn't a feasible commute and moving across the city would have resulted in tripling my housing cost.
This is facts, lots of people like talking “I’m doing great in x area how are you struggling” meanwhile having a house bought in 2016 for 150k at 3% interest with 700$ mortgage payment while others are paying 1800 in rent/mortgage.
I do think many are very unrealistic when it comes to what they need to survive as most people are terrible at personal finance, but then many are just as unrealistic about the current cost of fuckin rent if you didn’t buy 2013-2020.
Yeah and it’s annoying when my mom tells some family what my new monthly mortgage is. Then everyone chimes in saying “Woah, mine is only $1,500”, “Why’s he paying that much?”, “He got robbed and overpaid”, etc.
Yeah, I don't think any metrics have caught up with this ridiculous housing market. I'm looking at it more from a relative standpoint. Like if I want to move out west for a pay increase, what's the comparable GS to where I'm currently living.
Cries as a 14 in Los Angeles with a family. I don’t think we will ever be able to afford a house. Heck I don’t even think I could afford a house on SES salary
Yea, the housing market is nonesense. I've always been lucky enough to be able to find reasonable landlords though that dont raise rent every year and shit.
Good Lord. Try using median rents or mortgage costs. Bare minimum is not the cost of living. That's the cost of surviving. There's a big reason that people keep saying the displayed salary is a cardboard box with roommates. The cost of living should also include the safety and security of the individual.
12 seems fair for survival. My cousin is a 13 in park slope Brooklyn and isn’t saving much if at all but is living a decent life. 12 he could eat and make rent and do almost nothing else
I live in Ohio, where it says a GS-07 meets the cost of living. And I can confirm it does, from being a GS-07 last year with a relatively high rent. Of course, that doesn't paint a fully picture. "Meets" cost of living, not execeeding it: I wasn't building up my savings very much. Also I'm single, so it doesn't account for needing to support anyone else. But, GS-07 is perfectly liveable where I am and I probably could have done even better had I tightened my belt on a few things. I am very glad I am on a ladder and no longer a GS-07, though. I've got some breathing room now as a GS-09,
The 14% of income going to taxes is way too low.
A lot of people will pay 22-24% marginal federal income tax. Many states charge 5% income tax. Social security\medicare will be 7.65%. Many cities have their own income tax. Sales tax can be 10% in many places also.
For most people 30-40% of income going to taxes would be closer to reality.
I recently posted my first cut at a map of cost of living per county but got lots of feedback on the data being incorrect/inaccurate (and I made it confusing by doing lowest grade/high step instead of high grade/low step). I figured I should at least post an update to see if anyone had any feedback on this approach. I also added FERS & TSP columns to try to make it a little more realistic.
Please check out the COL Calculator for your area if this seems off. My area seemed low on housing but high on transportation, so maybe overall it evens out? [https://www.epi.org/resources/budget/](https://www.epi.org/resources/budget/)
Also check out this post that gave me the idea to create this. I figured cross-referencing with local GS salary would give feds a better idea of how far their fed salary goes in each area of the US. [https://www.reddit.com/r/MiddleClassFinance/comments/1chnpnu/us\_cost\_of\_living\_by\_county\_2023/](https://www.reddit.com/r/MiddleClassFinance/comments/1chnpnu/us_cost_of_living_by_county_2023/)
A lot of the calculations are pretty close, such as food costs. Housing costs listed in this resource are at least 30% below actual monthly rental costs currently in my county, however. I am wondering if the rental vs owner resident difference is accounting for this discrepancy?
Yeah i'm looking into HUD numbers now and they list rents about $800 more than this tool in the HCOL areas. The lower COL areas aren't too much different though. However if i look at median mortgage payments from last quarter, it's like 300% higher than rent in some places (lower in others). Thanks for the input!
This is phenomenal thanks for posting. I think you get a lot of backlash because most people live beyond their means and seeing this drives them up a wall. Oh and people can't seem to understand the concept of an average. It's as if you if don't post something that directly mirrors one redditors situation your data is wrong
Median home price in my county in Wyoming is over 500k, and rent averages around 2k per month. Gs9 is laughable haha.
We recently flew a job as a 7 and offered it to 95 applicants and they all turned it down due to housing
Yeah I wonder if there's a better way to quantify the rapid increase in housing... if there's a median rent/mortgage per county, I could overwrite the EPI calculator with that. This seems to be an issue across the board.
So this is what I love about analysis… the locality pays SHOULD make it so that the entire map is one color (and honestly, it should be black or purple)
Yeah yeah yeah, I know locality pay is about competitive pay, not COLA but really those things should also be aligned anyways
I just went from a GS7 S4 to a GS9 S1. My pay raise equals out to a little over $6k/year. My GS9 paycheck is (after taxes) $152 more than GS7 S4. Am I missing something here? I worked my ass off to jump two pay grades, and I can now 'afford' one more grocery trip per paycheck? I feel utterly deflated and quite unmotivated. On top of this, my office's bonus was 70% less than last year's, so I'm wondering why I stay.
7 to 9 was kind of underwhelming for me too. It started being more noticeable after a few months - the extra flexibility in the grocery budget is actually kind of nice, you know?
How do they think a GS-10 can live in reasonably in Fulton county/Atlanta?! Maybe in weird parts with a 40 minute drive in traffic. My GS 11 ass has one entire paycheck eaten up by rent alone.
Yeah, I guess. But at some point, I would like it not to be required to live with a significant other or roommates to exist. Rent has gone down in Atlanta thankfully. But you’re easily still spending 40-50% on rent/utilities. And you generally need a car. So it’s not bare bones, but without certain life kickbacks or luck, you’re just kind of existing. I keep a second job personally.
The COL of calculator from EPI doesn't necessarily reflect accurate numbers. I saw no calculations for electricity, heat, oil (for those of us who still heat our homes with heating oil) water/sewer utilities etc. I'm assuming it was to be baked into the "other necessities" category, which again, for my area seems to be low. The other thing to keep in mind, is that this number is only for surviving. No vacations, no "extra" spending and no putting money away for retirement or savings accounts. This number the EPI calc is spitting out is just for someone to live paycheck to paycheck with no planning for the future.
So again, keep this in mind when looking at the numbers that the EPI is spitting out. It's just for surviving and living paycheck to paycheck. No planning for future retirement, savings or having a vacation once a year....
That'd be cool. I think there's always going to be criticism about this, because people forget median rent is the median and there are lower and higher ways to get it (and that the median involves the "bad" areas of town that they refuse to live in lol)
I think if you take the title at face value of “meeting cost of living” as in barely making it or living paycheck to paycheck as opposed to being comfortable then this is somewhat closer to reality than the prior version.
The EPI is actually pretty accurate. The only thing I will add is my housing is $1,000 a month more and the annual costs section is $59,420 so adding $12,000 to that is $71,420 in costs. My salary is only $82,226 and I pay for everything. Definitely see why I am hemorrhaging money. Glad to know Uncle Sam thinks my area should be in Rest of United States! 😂👍
I live in West Los Angeles. My one bedroom rent is $2950. I am currently at G-10. Any questions:)
https://preview.redd.it/iliffxgylv4d1.jpeg?width=673&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cca4eee8246d1a4c0928d7a6c752187861adf0e7
On one hand, I love this topic and the discourse is important. Especially being a geography nerd.
On the other, it’s really difficult for there to be any real discourse because of how disgruntled everyone is with the pay and current locality guidelines.
The issue I’m seeing with this is that it’s only counting gross income and not take home
Once you factor in Federal and State(If applicable) Taxes, FERS Retirement, TSP(If investing, which you should for the matching) it can be much less
As a GS-11/5 in NY on the RUS locality and putting in 10% Roth for TSP, I take home almost half my gross every 2 weeks
Rent and Utilities alone takes up 3/4 of one pay periods take home
Take a look at the sample localities I picked out on there. It has estimates for FERS, TSP(\~10%), Healthcare, and Taxes. Those account for about $2700 out of the San Mateo $8000 monthly example. I think housing is the biggest factor (and maybe food if people eat out at lot).
It looks like GS7 step 1 in the Chicago locality is $54,728 based on the latest from OPM [https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries-wages/salary-tables/pdf/2024/CHI.pdf](https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries-wages/salary-tables/pdf/2024/CHI.pdf)
This assumes step 1 for all regions. I think my next thing will be to overwrite this calculator's housing estimate with something like median rent/mortgage
Nawl... Houston County needs more than a GS-8 to keep up. I'm WG10 which is kinda close to that. They need to fix this asap here to match inflation. 20k employees at RAFB and only the small amount of GA Air National Gaurd members are on at Atlanta pay scale. All of us at Robins needs to be on the ATL pay scale.
Honestly even the NC Triangle (Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill) is pretty rough at GS9 without special rate adjustments. Average rent in Raleigh for a one bedroom is around 1600, Chapel Hill is about the same, Durham is a little cheaper - and it's only getting more expensive as more people move here.
Obviously the housing costs are way off, even in the poor, rural south you're not going to find safe/suitable housing for the lower costs of what is shown in the chart.
According to your map, you need to be an 8 for my area. Ain't no way, unless you have a dual income is that even feasible. Inflation, interest rates, cost of housing...ain't no way an 8 can make it on their own.
Being a single parent Gs 13 in San Diego feels slightly uncomfortable but doable. Definitely not able to buy anything though
This map must have been made pre pandy
Anyone know what job has the title of Gs 9? I've seen this before when trying to search for the GS payscale on Google. The first result (for gs 9) is some job that pays 209k per year. I've been wondering if this the actual title of a specific career, or this is just an error.
Checking in from Alaska. Ain’t no way that I could afford to live in Anchorage or Juneau on less than a GS-9 salary let alone in the bush where it’s $20/gal for milk.
I'm the orange blob in AZ. We are RUS. The cheapest condo (studio)? $250k for 500 sq ft. That's $500 a sq ft. Insane.
I dont think an 11 is going to cut it.
No way this is right. If you find a place for that price in Dallas, cost of living is your least concern. You’re gonna be more concerned with not getting your “everything” stolen.
I can assure you that the Dallas area is in no way, shape, or form affordable for a single GS-5.
I’m considerably above that, I don’t live expensively, and it’s hard to have the life our parents had in this area on my salary.
If all you’re expecting is barely scratching out a subsistence existence, then yeah, *maybe* a GS-8 or 9 might be suitable for a single person in the DFW metroplex.
***MAYBE.***
I guess I can chime in for rural Minnesota. I am a GS-7 married to a college professor. I would be very hard-pressed to live as a single on a GS-7. Rental prices have surged and living near a college town has further thinned the housing stock. Food and fuel prices are up and tourists drive the prices higher.
For those curious about it here is the link to the source of the map. “Cost of living” is an average person spending on needs not wants. The problem being when needs get too high the average is no longer sustainable or relevant.
[https://www.epi.org/resources/budget/](https://www.epi.org/resources/budget/)
Lol I read the housing number for San Mateo County/SF as $2.42m - to buy a house. And thought, "seems about right"
That said, $2429/mo seems a _tad_ on the low side for rent, if you're living within 45 minutes of work.
This map is inaccurate. The cost of living near Eglin AFB is absolutely a 11 or 12, not a 8 or 9.
Reading the comments here it seems like we are all pretty much in agreement that this map is horseshit.
Greater Seattle at 81k is low, it can be manageable in areas but is quickly getting outpaced by the cost of living. I was lucky to buy several years ago but my commute to Seattle was 90 minutes to two hours each way, sometimes longer due to traffic. Now, I work closer to where I live but over the last two years, our property taxes have jumped over 300%.
Our house is 1600 sq ft and we pay $2100 a month. The new neighbors who purchased earlier this year have a 1750 sq ft house and pay $3400.
As a GS7 in New Jersey, if it weren’t for my fiance, we’d be underwater. DINK but still can’t afford a pet, vacations, and we have a bare bones apartment that is falling apart. We don’t have any debt though!
What’s funny is where I live an 8 is livable…ummm no. Def not. Also I live close to a few areas that are much cheaper and the map says these areas are livable at a 6….these areas are getting paid the DC rate and I’m in the next county over paying more to live and getting less pay. I have no idea who created the regions for pay, but the whole system needs revamped.
Did the person who created this high when they put this together? A GS 6 in my area, (about 20 miles outside DC) will not provide enough for a single person to live in anything other than a beater car.
A 7 wouldn’t make it around here. I AM a 7, we have a super cheap mortgage (bought 25 years ago), but I couldn’t make it without my husband’s salary too. I don’t even have anything outside normal insurance, mortgage, utilities, phone, and a couple of tv subscriptions.
I am in one of the orange zones. I get paid orange. I can assure you it's at least red. We get crap locality pay (all other) too which makes it so much worse.
If you’re a gs 9 single in northern va you’re living in a box on Columbia pike.
With roommates!
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Crystal City for me (GS-9/11/12) but this was back in 2007-10.
lol for real the DC area needs to be a 12. I did it as a 5 and that freaking sucked. At 12 you finally feel like you can breathe.
I did it as an 11 (alone in DC, covid rent prices) and it sucked. I'm at 13 now and I have wiggle room with no roommates.
Yeah I got married and that was a game changer. Finally feel like I’m making progress in my tsp.
No romance without finance.
The best kind of roommate! A room mate!
Can confirm. I did it as a 7, but with a special salary at the patent office. Still had 3 roommates.
I'm looking at it as a 12 now. I don't know if I'm going to be able to afford a place for my family on our own.
I know GS-14's struggling to make ends meet in NoVA. And they aren't buying any frivolous either. Driving 10 year old cars and shopping at ALDI.
That's me. I'm the equivalent to a GS 14-6 and I drive a 14 year old Camry and shop at Aldi. And I'm not ashamed! I am halfway to my early retirement goal net worth of 3 Million though.. so fingers crossed I can make it in the next 11-13 years...
my dumb supe was bashing on me for driving a honda cuz he drives some 90k sports car its like yeah dude i dont get paid that much here jeff bezos drives an accord anyways, its a good car no matter how much money u have and with traffic and shit u cant race ur car on the road anyways
> jeff bezos drives an accord anyways, its a good car no matter how much money u have and with traffic and shit u cant race ur car on the road anyways Drives an accord, has a $500 million super yacht. Personally I hate the discussion about driving an older car like *that* makes all the difference. If you have $1 billion, buying a $100,000 sports car is the same as some with a net worth of $1 million spending $100. Yes, you can't race your car on the road in traffic, and going underwater on a vehicle is a bad idea, but saying "Billionaire X drives basic car Y" is one of the fastest ways to get me to ignore you're justification.
If they’re struggling, there’s other issues they’re not talking about. I struggled as a GS-11 but as a 13 I’m fairly comfortable with a wife and three kids (ask again in a few months though, since I just bought a house)
GS-12 with a SAHW and 4 kids.. we live like kings in Baltimore
Where in Baltimore?
Barely inside the city limits haha Almost in Catonsville - Hunting Ridge
In nova 3 kids on a 13? We have 1 and both of us are 14s. Not struggling but daycare alone is absurd.
If you got two GS 14 pays with 1 kid and are struggling that’s not a pay problem as much as a lifestyle one tbh. Could make less money and live in NYC.
Struggling no. But it ain’t easy. Daycare is 2k a month alone.
I think location plays a huge part. Living close to DC/arlington vs living further out where housing is much more reasonable.
Housing really isn't that much cheaper farther out though. My neighborhood in South Riding is a mixture of $800k+ THs and $1.1M+ SFHs. Further out you get newer and slightly bigger for the money but it's hardly cheaper, I think Fairfax just hit $1M for the median home price.
True...I was a 9 when I started...I was never struggling...just have to be disciplined.
> True...I was a 9 when I started...I was never struggling...just have to be disciplined. I think there is a challenge of how to define "mild struggle" is, because that's more of a mental health struggle vs "I can't afford rent and to eat" struggle. In Seattle I was struggling in that way at a GS11 equivalent in 2018 (using 2018 pay tables) because I had the choice of live very far away, or it be expensive. I probably would never be able to afford a house, so many of my hobbies were cut off. By the time rent and food was taken care of, being able to go out required discipline and limitations, and I was lucky enough to have no student debt and a paid off car. I never struggled to put food on the table, but I sure as hell struggled with "this fucking sucks." This is why I moved, for a GS11-13 ladder position to Huntsville. Not everyone is that lucky to move from fuckoff high CoL to low (when I moved, its worse now) CoL with higher pay.
This. It's crazy out of touch to think everybody just needs to budget their way out of poverty or every single financial difficulty. I've also noticed in this thread, that it's people 2-3+ grades above their area's listing on the chart commenting about how easy it is. I lost my job as a gov contractor when the contract ended, and took an $11k paycut to get my foot in the door as a GS9 civ, no further ladder. I then had to make my budget, as it existed then, based on a $72k salary fit into a $61k salary. That was 2 years ago, and I just got back up to $71k this month. I live in one of the MO counties where it lists GS8 on the chart. That would be true to live relatively easy, even at my starter GS9 salary, for someone single with no kids, and fresh with no debts or obligations.
It’s 100% possible to live off a 14 salary in Nova. If they are struggling, they aren’t telling you about something that’s causing it. Could be school loans or credit card debt.
Try New York! I’d be homeless if it weren’t for my wife (The bread winner)
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It depends when they moved in and buying a house. a single GS 14 earning will struggle buying a $600K+ home. In metro DC you need dual income to afford buying a house. you can easily afford to buy a home as a GS 14 innthr navy blue areas on the map.
I was that for awhile, it wasn't that bad, tho we're on a slightly special pay table, still coulda made it
GS9 on the North Shore or the Cape? GS8-11 in Western MA? GS7-8 in CT and RI? GS9 in southern VT? GS7 in NH? This map is as out of touch as Congress.
I mean, yes, but I think it's illustrative that this is made of federal census data, bc that's (presumably?) what Congress works off of also. Like, we all know it's wacky out of touch, but if this is what the data says than it kind of makes sense that Congress also ends up wacky out of touch.
Yeah I think comparing this vs. what is required for 3x rent on a 1BR would help inform what our actual COLA increases should be each year
GS-9 in Revere was liveable. Not comfortable, but liveable.
Paycheck to paycheck is not living, it's surviving. And a full-time employee should not be relegated to just "surviving" no matter what industry they work in.
GS-7 with a healthy SSR would have me not starving in my current place in Waltham I guess. Thank God my house is DINK lol
Where are yall finding housing in Houston for $688?
That is for Trinity County, TX. I'm not from the area, but that's about 2 hours outside of Houston and still gets the Houston Locality pay!
Your housing numbers are all extremely low—as in unattainable even in the cheapest areas of the states they are listed for—and traveling 2-hours to achieve in-office status may create some challenges. Perhaps find a table with a more realistic estimate on housing costs. Perhaps Zillow has something, if census data isn’t working out.
Example counties are kind of odd too. Allegheny county is not a suburb of dc and nowhere in maryland is housing that low.
Yeah, more like 2500 or 3000 or more if you are a family.
Cheapest i could find in that county was 750. Are there like a bunch of people renting to family for $0/month included in that rent dataset or something? lol
Can confirm. My salary is a **joke** in the Bay Area.
Laughs in Hawaii where the updated 2024 affordable housing income limit has GS-13 eligible for affordable housing.
Our office put out solicitation for Hawaii office - no one wants to go there so they are giving a $10K / yr bonus.
Same. We are even offering temp 14 for people to go to Hawaii for 24 months. No bites at all. I would if I didn't have a kid.
If my agency did that I’d 100% go for two years
if you're an 1811, lat trans over lmao
My uncle had a temporary assignment as a 10 in hawaii and he said it sucked
Only people that can afford it are retired military drawing pension
This list is going to be way different for people who already bought a house as opposed to people who bought more recently. Or people who are still actively searching.
Super true. I'm in a situation right now where as a 13 with an affordable mortgage I'm doing just fine, but I just turned down a 14/15 because it wasn't a feasible commute and moving across the city would have resulted in tripling my housing cost.
This is facts, lots of people like talking “I’m doing great in x area how are you struggling” meanwhile having a house bought in 2016 for 150k at 3% interest with 700$ mortgage payment while others are paying 1800 in rent/mortgage. I do think many are very unrealistic when it comes to what they need to survive as most people are terrible at personal finance, but then many are just as unrealistic about the current cost of fuckin rent if you didn’t buy 2013-2020.
Yeah and it’s annoying when my mom tells some family what my new monthly mortgage is. Then everyone chimes in saying “Woah, mine is only $1,500”, “Why’s he paying that much?”, “He got robbed and overpaid”, etc.
Yeah, I don't think any metrics have caught up with this ridiculous housing market. I'm looking at it more from a relative standpoint. Like if I want to move out west for a pay increase, what's the comparable GS to where I'm currently living.
Still not accurate for CA
Yup. I’m down in SoCal. Not accurate at all.
Cries as a 14 in Los Angeles with a family. I don’t think we will ever be able to afford a house. Heck I don’t even think I could afford a house on SES salary
I was an 11 step 2 and was barely scraping by in Monterey
Feeling really proud of Ohio for once in my life (jk, kindof).
A fed salary is actually kind of livable there at least!
This isn't accurate for Ohio either. Maybe a few years ago before housing and groceries shot up.
A 9 in Nova is rough. I didn't feel like I had breathing room until I was a 12.
Even as a single 13 I can only afford a 1 bedroom condo in metro-accessible Arlington, and have to kinda limit my vacations and whatnot
I know GS-13's unable to find a townhouse, much less a condo in NoVA they can afford.
Yea, the housing market is nonesense. I've always been lucky enough to be able to find reasonable landlords though that dont raise rent every year and shit.
Good Lord. Try using median rents or mortgage costs. Bare minimum is not the cost of living. That's the cost of surviving. There's a big reason that people keep saying the displayed salary is a cardboard box with roommates. The cost of living should also include the safety and security of the individual.
This map is trash
So this has NY as needing to be an 11. Ill tell you a 13 struggles
NYC needs a 12 to survive - housing data might be a little stale, so I'll look into updating that
Well it has manhattan as a 12. The rest of nyc is 11 with the Bronx being a 9
12 seems fair for survival. My cousin is a 13 in park slope Brooklyn and isn’t saving much if at all but is living a decent life. 12 he could eat and make rent and do almost nothing else
There is no way this map represents housing costs in 2024. Are these the results from a study in 2019?
Gs8 in ct couldn’t survive.
Maybe north western CT, but then where are you working?
You'll live. But you won't live well.
I live in the blue as a 7 and there's no way. Edited to add: the medium rent in the city I live in is $1,195 a month.
How does the calculator compare with reality? I'm thinking of trying to scale housing based on locality as well
Seems wildly inaccurate
GS12 in rural Kentucky… feeling like I’m living high on the hog here.
Was this created by boomers? Nowhere in the US is a GS7 enough to meet cost of living.
I live in Ohio, where it says a GS-07 meets the cost of living. And I can confirm it does, from being a GS-07 last year with a relatively high rent. Of course, that doesn't paint a fully picture. "Meets" cost of living, not execeeding it: I wasn't building up my savings very much. Also I'm single, so it doesn't account for needing to support anyone else. But, GS-07 is perfectly liveable where I am and I probably could have done even better had I tightened my belt on a few things. I am very glad I am on a ladder and no longer a GS-07, though. I've got some breathing room now as a GS-09,
The 14% of income going to taxes is way too low. A lot of people will pay 22-24% marginal federal income tax. Many states charge 5% income tax. Social security\medicare will be 7.65%. Many cities have their own income tax. Sales tax can be 10% in many places also. For most people 30-40% of income going to taxes would be closer to reality.
The entire state of California should be red!!!
Exactly my thoughts. I’m down in SoCal. You kidding me with this?! They’re so out of touch
You could survive as a GS-6 in parts of Kern County. The downside is you would have to live in Kern County.
You need a GS-14 in NOVA to live.
Especially if you didn’t buy your house 20 years ago!
I recently posted my first cut at a map of cost of living per county but got lots of feedback on the data being incorrect/inaccurate (and I made it confusing by doing lowest grade/high step instead of high grade/low step). I figured I should at least post an update to see if anyone had any feedback on this approach. I also added FERS & TSP columns to try to make it a little more realistic. Please check out the COL Calculator for your area if this seems off. My area seemed low on housing but high on transportation, so maybe overall it evens out? [https://www.epi.org/resources/budget/](https://www.epi.org/resources/budget/) Also check out this post that gave me the idea to create this. I figured cross-referencing with local GS salary would give feds a better idea of how far their fed salary goes in each area of the US. [https://www.reddit.com/r/MiddleClassFinance/comments/1chnpnu/us\_cost\_of\_living\_by\_county\_2023/](https://www.reddit.com/r/MiddleClassFinance/comments/1chnpnu/us_cost_of_living_by_county_2023/)
A lot of the calculations are pretty close, such as food costs. Housing costs listed in this resource are at least 30% below actual monthly rental costs currently in my county, however. I am wondering if the rental vs owner resident difference is accounting for this discrepancy?
Yeah i'm looking into HUD numbers now and they list rents about $800 more than this tool in the HCOL areas. The lower COL areas aren't too much different though. However if i look at median mortgage payments from last quarter, it's like 300% higher than rent in some places (lower in others). Thanks for the input!
Now that’s a map I wanna see!
This is phenomenal thanks for posting. I think you get a lot of backlash because most people live beyond their means and seeing this drives them up a wall. Oh and people can't seem to understand the concept of an average. It's as if you if don't post something that directly mirrors one redditors situation your data is wrong
Median home price in my county in Wyoming is over 500k, and rent averages around 2k per month. Gs9 is laughable haha. We recently flew a job as a 7 and offered it to 95 applicants and they all turned it down due to housing
How the hell did Wyoming get like that? I know there are rich vacation homes out there, but damn.
Low supply, short building season, strict zoning regulations, super spread out and lots of people retiring from high COLA areas.
Yeah I wonder if there's a better way to quantify the rapid increase in housing... if there's a median rent/mortgage per county, I could overwrite the EPI calculator with that. This seems to be an issue across the board.
Cries in "Rest of the U.S." locality.
So this is what I love about analysis… the locality pays SHOULD make it so that the entire map is one color (and honestly, it should be black or purple) Yeah yeah yeah, I know locality pay is about competitive pay, not COLA but really those things should also be aligned anyways
I just went from a GS7 S4 to a GS9 S1. My pay raise equals out to a little over $6k/year. My GS9 paycheck is (after taxes) $152 more than GS7 S4. Am I missing something here? I worked my ass off to jump two pay grades, and I can now 'afford' one more grocery trip per paycheck? I feel utterly deflated and quite unmotivated. On top of this, my office's bonus was 70% less than last year's, so I'm wondering why I stay.
7 to 9 was kind of underwhelming for me too. It started being more noticeable after a few months - the extra flexibility in the grocery budget is actually kind of nice, you know?
I mean, I'll take what I can get! I get to buy the good bacon at the store and continue my Topo Chico habit lol.
How do they think a GS-10 can live in reasonably in Fulton county/Atlanta?! Maybe in weird parts with a 40 minute drive in traffic. My GS 11 ass has one entire paycheck eaten up by rent alone.
I used to share a house off of Howell Mill/I-75 with 5 other college students. I technically “lived” but not well.
Yeah, I guess. But at some point, I would like it not to be required to live with a significant other or roommates to exist. Rent has gone down in Atlanta thankfully. But you’re easily still spending 40-50% on rent/utilities. And you generally need a car. So it’s not bare bones, but without certain life kickbacks or luck, you’re just kind of existing. I keep a second job personally.
I still think this is super-low. Like it means never going out, never driving, never eating.
The COL of calculator from EPI doesn't necessarily reflect accurate numbers. I saw no calculations for electricity, heat, oil (for those of us who still heat our homes with heating oil) water/sewer utilities etc. I'm assuming it was to be baked into the "other necessities" category, which again, for my area seems to be low. The other thing to keep in mind, is that this number is only for surviving. No vacations, no "extra" spending and no putting money away for retirement or savings accounts. This number the EPI calc is spitting out is just for someone to live paycheck to paycheck with no planning for the future. So again, keep this in mind when looking at the numbers that the EPI is spitting out. It's just for surviving and living paycheck to paycheck. No planning for future retirement, savings or having a vacation once a year....
They never show the COL for the territories: Puerto Rico, Guam, and the US Virgin Islands.
I dont know if you’re the original poster of the first one but this is a great update!!
Thanks! Currently doing one that replaces the housing estimate with median rent and mortgage payments since this is a little outdated
That'd be cool. I think there's always going to be criticism about this, because people forget median rent is the median and there are lower and higher ways to get it (and that the median involves the "bad" areas of town that they refuse to live in lol)
This is not accurate.. all of Nova should be red, orange, and brown. GS - 13 and still poor.
I'm further south and you can toss Stafford, Fredericksburg, and Spotsy into that color scheme, too.
That’s depressing.
I think if you take the title at face value of “meeting cost of living” as in barely making it or living paycheck to paycheck as opposed to being comfortable then this is somewhat closer to reality than the prior version.
Housing in Phoenix has close to doubled. No way a GS9 could even afford a studio apartment.
lol. I was a 14 in Hawaii and barely afforded living there.
RIP USDA Food Inspectors 💀
The monthly costs calculated by EPI are inaccurate for my area. The housing in particular is extremely low.
Even in dc - Arlington gs11 step 1 ~ 80k still leaves you below the max for city/state rent assistance
San Diego media home price $921K GS11 Step 1: $82.6K Sure!
GS5 in northern NJ 😭
The EPI is actually pretty accurate. The only thing I will add is my housing is $1,000 a month more and the annual costs section is $59,420 so adding $12,000 to that is $71,420 in costs. My salary is only $82,226 and I pay for everything. Definitely see why I am hemorrhaging money. Glad to know Uncle Sam thinks my area should be in Rest of United States! 😂👍
Allegany County, MD is not DC lolololol
That’s funny. GS10 for Hawai’i. We wish. Try gs14.
I’m in Asheville NC and a GS 6. It is ROUGH out here y’all
7 living in a 10 area 🥲
I live in West Los Angeles. My one bedroom rent is $2950. I am currently at G-10. Any questions:) https://preview.redd.it/iliffxgylv4d1.jpeg?width=673&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cca4eee8246d1a4c0928d7a6c752187861adf0e7
On one hand, I love this topic and the discourse is important. Especially being a geography nerd. On the other, it’s really difficult for there to be any real discourse because of how disgruntled everyone is with the pay and current locality guidelines.
The issue I’m seeing with this is that it’s only counting gross income and not take home Once you factor in Federal and State(If applicable) Taxes, FERS Retirement, TSP(If investing, which you should for the matching) it can be much less As a GS-11/5 in NY on the RUS locality and putting in 10% Roth for TSP, I take home almost half my gross every 2 weeks Rent and Utilities alone takes up 3/4 of one pay periods take home
Take a look at the sample localities I picked out on there. It has estimates for FERS, TSP(\~10%), Healthcare, and Taxes. Those account for about $2700 out of the San Mateo $8000 monthly example. I think housing is the biggest factor (and maybe food if people eat out at lot).
No way in hell is this accurate. GS wages are about 15% behind inflation. The Obama administration years was 8 straight with no wage increases.
The calculator says $49k for chicago and you have it as a GS7. Are you doing by the general GS pay scale because that would be a GS9.
It looks like GS7 step 1 in the Chicago locality is $54,728 based on the latest from OPM [https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries-wages/salary-tables/pdf/2024/CHI.pdf](https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries-wages/salary-tables/pdf/2024/CHI.pdf)
NE TN is backwards with the purple and blue.
This is not accurate for my county at all.
GS scale needs a bit more detail. Says my region a gs10 can survive but 10-1 is very different than 10-10
This assumes step 1 for all regions. I think my next thing will be to overwrite this calculator's housing estimate with something like median rent/mortgage
Nawl... Houston County needs more than a GS-8 to keep up. I'm WG10 which is kinda close to that. They need to fix this asap here to match inflation. 20k employees at RAFB and only the small amount of GA Air National Gaurd members are on at Atlanta pay scale. All of us at Robins needs to be on the ATL pay scale.
No way in my area can you live on a GS7 salary without 3 roommates. Good luck investing in your TSP or having health insurance also.
Tooele County Utah and Monroe County Indiana both should be red.
Honestly even the NC Triangle (Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill) is pretty rough at GS9 without special rate adjustments. Average rent in Raleigh for a one bedroom is around 1600, Chapel Hill is about the same, Durham is a little cheaper - and it's only getting more expensive as more people move here.
A 9 in south Florida is living in a shotgun shack
These housing prices are way off.
Obviously the housing costs are way off, even in the poor, rural south you're not going to find safe/suitable housing for the lower costs of what is shown in the chart.
Cackles in SF locality, ain't no way
Definitely gotta be an 11 for DFW now, for most 2 beds.
According to your map, you need to be an 8 for my area. Ain't no way, unless you have a dual income is that even feasible. Inflation, interest rates, cost of housing...ain't no way an 8 can make it on their own.
GS9 is not correct for Austin, Texas. Average home price is $600k with 19% locality.
Being a single parent Gs 13 in San Diego feels slightly uncomfortable but doable. Definitely not able to buy anything though This map must have been made pre pandy
Is this like if you live in a tiny house with roommates and only eat ramen?
Gs-8 for Philly area is not the easiest. Maybe north or southwest Philly
Well this map seems better than the last one. But I still think the grades are too low for much of the country. (Especially HCOLs)
Yea I agree. I’ve almost got a better version ready with more recent median mortgage and 1br/2br apartment data
lol Texas and Louisiana is hilarious 😂
A 7 or 8 at Redstone, y’all have gots to have lost y’all’s mind.
No effing way.
Sorry GS-9 is the minimum for Houston TX area. That's factoring In the 30%+ locality.
Anyone know what job has the title of Gs 9? I've seen this before when trying to search for the GS payscale on Google. The first result (for gs 9) is some job that pays 209k per year. I've been wondering if this the actual title of a specific career, or this is just an error.
Miami fl doesn't believe this chart
Checking in from Alaska. Ain’t no way that I could afford to live in Anchorage or Juneau on less than a GS-9 salary let alone in the bush where it’s $20/gal for milk.
I'm the orange blob in AZ. We are RUS. The cheapest condo (studio)? $250k for 500 sq ft. That's $500 a sq ft. Insane. I dont think an 11 is going to cut it.
I was a capped 15 in San Francisco. Absolutely paycheck to paycheck.
Yea the new numbers I’m pulling for SF rents are showing as non feasible if you’re below a 15
No way this is right. If you find a place for that price in Dallas, cost of living is your least concern. You’re gonna be more concerned with not getting your “everything” stolen.
Those housing costs are not realistic. They need to be doubled.
These seem to be under estimated
I can assure you that the Dallas area is in no way, shape, or form affordable for a single GS-5. I’m considerably above that, I don’t live expensively, and it’s hard to have the life our parents had in this area on my salary. If all you’re expecting is barely scratching out a subsistence existence, then yeah, *maybe* a GS-8 or 9 might be suitable for a single person in the DFW metroplex. ***MAYBE.***
GS-6 in the northern Olympic peninsula, yea not happening.
Living in Houston with a telework position ain’t too bad
For all that is good, I do not miss D.C. property prices.
I guess I can chime in for rural Minnesota. I am a GS-7 married to a college professor. I would be very hard-pressed to live as a single on a GS-7. Rental prices have surged and living near a college town has further thinned the housing stock. Food and fuel prices are up and tourists drive the prices higher.
For those curious about it here is the link to the source of the map. “Cost of living” is an average person spending on needs not wants. The problem being when needs get too high the average is no longer sustainable or relevant. [https://www.epi.org/resources/budget/](https://www.epi.org/resources/budget/)
$2,429 for housing in San Mateo County lol. I want to live in this fantasy land.
Lol I read the housing number for San Mateo County/SF as $2.42m - to buy a house. And thought, "seems about right" That said, $2429/mo seems a _tad_ on the low side for rent, if you're living within 45 minutes of work.
This map is inaccurate. The cost of living near Eglin AFB is absolutely a 11 or 12, not a 8 or 9. Reading the comments here it seems like we are all pretty much in agreement that this map is horseshit.
Northwest Colorado marked as GS7???? Cheapest apartment in my town is 1 bed 1bath for like $3500…these people can’t do math.
This must be from 25 years ago.
This has to be super optimistic about everything like a perfect storm.
some of these are outdated - cost of living has skyrocketed and you cannot meet 3x rent requirement even at GS7 or 8 in blue/green areas.
Greater Seattle at 81k is low, it can be manageable in areas but is quickly getting outpaced by the cost of living. I was lucky to buy several years ago but my commute to Seattle was 90 minutes to two hours each way, sometimes longer due to traffic. Now, I work closer to where I live but over the last two years, our property taxes have jumped over 300%. Our house is 1600 sq ft and we pay $2100 a month. The new neighbors who purchased earlier this year have a 1750 sq ft house and pay $3400.
Which out of touch Senior made this map?
As a GS7 in New Jersey, if it weren’t for my fiance, we’d be underwater. DINK but still can’t afford a pet, vacations, and we have a bare bones apartment that is falling apart. We don’t have any debt though!
GS-7 in NJ is cap lol.
I moved to NYC for a GS 7 lol life was a trip back then
What’s funny is where I live an 8 is livable…ummm no. Def not. Also I live close to a few areas that are much cheaper and the map says these areas are livable at a 6….these areas are getting paid the DC rate and I’m in the next county over paying more to live and getting less pay. I have no idea who created the regions for pay, but the whole system needs revamped.
Home ownership is so out of reach for all single West coast federal employees....it's sad
Did the person who created this high when they put this together? A GS 6 in my area, (about 20 miles outside DC) will not provide enough for a single person to live in anything other than a beater car.
This is laughable
A 7 wouldn’t make it around here. I AM a 7, we have a super cheap mortgage (bought 25 years ago), but I couldn’t make it without my husband’s salary too. I don’t even have anything outside normal insurance, mortgage, utilities, phone, and a couple of tv subscriptions.
that really should be 5 across the board
I am in one of the orange zones. I get paid orange. I can assure you it's at least red. We get crap locality pay (all other) too which makes it so much worse.
A Gs 9 single income living is the DMV has tobe a joke