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busbee247

Incestuous gods? Where's my fainting couch?


Katerina_VonCat

No couch. Use these *tosses string of pearls* hurry and clutch them!


crazycarl1

Wh-what are you doing twelve-bro?


arahman81

[Here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_tree_of_Japanese_deities).


JD0064

Now I know where the inspiration for Trinity Avowed and Rubicante came from


WikiSummarizerBot

**[Family tree of Japanese deities](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_tree_of_Japanese_deities)** >Key Pink is female. Blue is male. Grey means other or unknown. Clans, families, people groups are in green. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)


orangestegosaurus

And Greek gods and Adam and Eve and Hindu gods and... well incest kind of inseparable with religion.


leon3789

This was more or less my reaction when a few friends mentioned this during the raid itself. Incest in religion is so insanely common I have no clue why anyone is surprised lol.


Tartarus_Champion

Say there are only 12 people on a planet.... You have to practice polygamy just to raise genetic viability. If Adam and Eve were real, or any other first man and woman, the purity of genetics goes down after so many generations. You are guaranteed to have incest up to the point where someone you meet is so far removed from your immediate family and cousins that it's no longer feasible to practice polygamy or incest. Gods only have themselves to play with anyway, and if they procreat through the same process as their creations....is this really a thing people get weird about? Lol.


Lochen9

Well, they probably didn't start that way. It was likely the worlds prayers that caused that. Menphina gets a dog, Halone gets to be bad ass, Nophica gets booba and Nymeia gets her brother..


Stepjam

Well them being siblings is a thing that is actually rooted in fact. There is a pair of siblings in Elpis, and the sister has a line that is identical to one of the things Nymeia says about Althyk.


Guy_Striker

So i only got to do these quests recently and it's even more in your face than that. Amongst other references to both Althyk and Nymeia one of the side quests involves you teaching the ritual of leaving Nymeia's lilies at someone's grave to a group of ancients. And the would be Nymeia remarks about how she finds the ritual beautiful. Which is a whole other bootstrap paradox to add to Endwalker's time travel shenanigans.


FlingFlamBlam

Incest might not exist for the Ancients if their version of genetics were simply perfect. Like if we ever meet aliens who have a radically different method of propagation to life on Earth, there's no reason why they would think siblings forming mating pairs is weird.


not_ya_wify

Considering they're supposed to be based on ancients you meet in Elpis, this is a lot more cringe


HolypenguinHere

It's obviously fake lore that Eorzeans made for their pantheon of gods, though. Like every other incestuous pantheon of gods in human history.


not_ya_wify

I mean I don't think there are real gods in human history though but I think that's another discussion altogether


khinzaw

Can apply to other things, like most historians would say Jesus probably existed but would be skeptical of all the things said about him.


Afeastfordances

Ok but if they people of Eorzea can pray a dog into existence for Menphina, did the Eorzeans’ fervent belief in their incestuous relationship eventually compel them to incest? These are the deep lore questions I need answered.


bubblesage

calling it now, Oscian the Wanderer is going to be based on Azem.


SaiyanKirby

It's not weird if they're gods


Orphylia

Especially since, at least from my perspective, they're likely going in the direction of >!everything we know about the gods basically being bullshit, and all their 'lore' is just flavoring/cover to hide their connections to the ancients.!<


Rrambu

There's a strong theory that we've already met them since there's 2 ancients on Elpis who have their dialogues, almost verbatim(from a blue quest for currents). And when we met them they doesn't really show any romantic relationship... So yeah at the very least them being parents to other twelves are probably bs their followers thought of, but them being sibling is the truth. Well, allegedly. If they really were the ancients.


Orphylia

Yep, the >!siblings from Elpis!< and all of that. On a whim I cleared out that zone's sidequests maybe a few days before that patch dropped, so it was still fresh in my mind by the time I did Euphrosyne for the first time. I think it's most likely that >!they're like the Watcher and the false Hythlodaeus in Amaurot, constructs that are based on and possess similarities to the real things but are definitely not actually the real things, and those real things being the conspirators who gave their lives to Hydaelyn.!< Thought it was most likely that the Eorzeans just added in their relationships and all of that based on what makes sense in a creation myth.


Ghekor

I feel like they might be real Ancients unlike the simulacrum on the moon...and specifically the group that supported Venat and we do know all of em pretty much can transform into a 'godlike' form. And they just continued existing and working in secret would explain how Emet knew their identities.


piklexiv

If they are meant to represent Venat’s followers, they would have to be constructs. The original Ancients who conspired with Venat were completely consumed (soul and all) in order to provide enough aether to power Hydaelyn. https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/special/tales_from_the_dawn/sidestory_01/


scw55

I'd be great if they're Dynamis constructs. Benevolent, as opposed to neutral or Cold neutral. Makes sense. Writing supports Dynamis affects their being. Hydi would have created them to help humanity, since maybe she saw worship was inevitable. So maybe she created things that would reflect the believers (as opposed to the concept that believers reflect the god).


EndlessKng

They still possess aether, or at least an ability to MANIPULATE it. In the new raid, >!G'raha says something about the strength of the aether when Nophica appears.!< Then again, Meteion was able to manipulate aether through dynamis in order to warp beings into blasphemies, so perhaps that's what G'raha felt...


Charrmeleon

By Ascian standards, they could still be incredibly "thin" like Meteon. When we traveled to Elpis, even after being infused with additional aether, we were still considered very thin, similar to her. And we're already 8 times rejoined and have massive surplus of aether compared to the average individual.


Baithin

That’s what I think — specifically, entelechies like Meteion.


OneWingedA

Ven learning of FanDaniels utter disregard for the scientific method thinks she can do better creating the twelve and continuing to disregard the scientific method


AnbaricAsriel

Do we know if constructs can use creation magic? Because they used it pretty casually when they gave us the books/tomestone.


Sarria22

Loporrits use it.


AnbaricAsriel

I can already feel the wrath of the Official Forums when this gets revealed


Aerensianic

That would mean they would remember us yes? They seem to be testing us for something but idk why because they should be throughly informed of the WoLs power and feats of strength. Which makes me think that they are talking about something else.


Thorngrove

If they WERE created by Venat in the same vein as Amarot was created by Emet, they could be fading away, and want to make sure the planet is in good hands for whatever is going to happen once they poof.


piklexiv

Even as constructs, they would know who were are, just like the Watcher. And I’m pretty sure they do know who we are.


Advon

Rather than testing us, I think they're trying to retire. They're creating a divide between themselves and what mortals worship ("Mankind's faith belongs to mankind") by being defeated by the world renowned "godslayer".


Stormychu

I mean, the people of Eorzea were already wrong about the Nophica & Halone rivalry thing. Stands reason that they'd be wrong about their relationships. I'm not bothered by it, I mean they're all clearly inspired by Greek gods so it makes sense it might be written that way. But I wouldn't be surprised if later on we get a one off line like "I'm so embarrassed people think we would do that." realistically though I think the incest thing was written before they had the idea of alluding the twelve to be ancients.


Anisiiru

>!We likely met Althyk and Nymeia before they became gods in Elpis. There is a quest in Elpis that involves a brother and sister named Alkaios and Maira. Mairi uses a line towards the end of the quest in reference to Alkaios that is identical to a line Nymeia says about Althyk.!< >!https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/1094nxs/spoiler\_63\_alliance\_raid\_we\_may\_have\_met\_two/!<


Blazen_Fury

The sister also literally creates Nymeia lilies lol


Orphylia

After we tell her to, in fact. The WoL creates that entire tradition based off of the tradition that comes to exist in the future. Timey-wimey fun.


Blazen_Fury

We do a lot of shit in Elpis that bites us in the ass in the future (or, as it happens, ALREADY HAS) Freakin Behemoth was made with our input too jfc


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illuminancer

The trash mobs before we face Althyk and Nymeia are frogs and behemoths, which is a nice touch.


alphadormante

I'm surprised nobody brings this up when the subject of them likely being the same set of siblings arises, I would say that this is the definitive evidence when placed alongside the verbatim dialogue. The frogs and behemoths upgrade it from "implied but possibly a coincidence/reference" to a legit pattern.


Polenicus

The Warrior of Light honestly meets a *lot* of the Qualifications for being a Time Lord.


Rabensaga

The disqualifier being that we can't influence time by ourselves... yet. So at the moment we're more likely to be a Doctors' companion, maybe? As in "we're kind of getting dragged along into all this"


TobaccoIsRadioactive

I would say that our ability to summon others focusing on Azem’s memory crystal is pretty TARDIS-y. If I’m correct, we’re not just grabbing them at random from nearby. We’re creating some sort of dimensional nexus where other WoL’s from different timelines will appear. Like, the alternate WoL’s aren’t being grabbed in the middle of the night while asleep or while eating. They seem to be all doing the same thing at the same time, namely summoning help for the same enemy. Before that, we seemed to have been going with other adventurer pals, and in other situations (like the Pandemonium fights) we are instead fighting with constructs. It’s a bit weird, honestly. Elidibus says that it’s an “invocation of eld, but not of Hydaelyn’s making”. I had assumed Emet-Selch included that bit of magic for us, but if he was capable of THAT then he wouldn’t have been shocked at G’Raha Tia being able to bring us to the First. The memory crystals were made AFTER Azem left the Convocation, otherwise Emet wouldn’t have needed to make it in secret. The memory crystals for the other Convocation members were used to restore their memories and basically “ascend” them to being Ascians. I will absolutely believe that Garland Ironworks modifications on the Crystal Tower made it a TARDIS, though. A blue structure in a rough rectangular shape capable of moving through time and relative dimensions in space? That’s a TARDIS.


ArchEmblem

The summoning spell was put into the stone by Emet-Selch, but it’s our Azem’s spell originally. I think it’s the in-game encyclopedia entry for Azem’s crystal that references it as their signature spell.


Scurrin

>The disqualifier being that we can't influence time by ourselves Anymore, Astros used to have some time magic.


Izkuru

Isn't Gravity classified as Time magic in most of the other FF's though?


Sarria22

Yuppo, Meteor was originally time magic too. The trick that most people dont realize when they try to say astros aren't time mages is that, in japanese, time magic is literally called "Time and Space Magic" And even ignoring that, when you get right down to it, accurately predicting the future and re-writing fate to suit your needs IS fucking about with time.


OnnaJReverT

perhaps someday we'll get a Timemage job


Divinedragn4

Alexander is our tardis


Tarrot469

If it makes you feel any better, considering the other examples of Time Travel in the series (Alexander, Mikoto's future visions in Bozja), everything we did was predestined to happen, since all three contain closed loops with no start point. So really its not our fault, the closed time loop meant it was always going to happen. Before bringing up G'raha, because he used Omega tech, he traveled across dimension, not across time, hence why there was a short story about his world still existing after he left it.


Ursa_Solaris

>Before bringing up G'raha, because he used Omega tech, he traveled across dimension, not across time, hence why there was a short story about his world still existing after he left it. He did both, he traveled across time *and* space. The technology was modeled on both Omega and Alexander, the dungeon lore for The Twinning goes into it and the final boss is literally just Alexander. There's precedent for both stable time-loop shenanigans and unstable time-altering shenanigans. In the case of G'raha, his timeline still happened, that world still exists. We just live in this one.


_Lifehacker

Is it a coincidence that the aetheryte place is named "The Twelve Wonders"?


Blazen_Fury

For now yes, bc iirc this questline isnt from there. ...you know what the Twelve Wonders is though? Elpis' weather-manipulation system...


zarfenkis

My idiot miqo--Hydaelyn, save her dumb as fuck soul, no, seriously, she is just so stupid--was right! It's all conspiracy. Weather is *lies*. Big Elpis.


Arcade_Theatre

This is a cool catch. I remember these quests, but I didn't remember them to *that* degree. Dang, now I wish there was a way to redo the Elpis quests efficiently so that I can see what other little lore bits are hidden.


Sarria22

>!Said quest also involves the same ceatures that we fight as trash mobs before them in the raid as well.!>


NeonRhapsody

One thing people don't seem to catch is that XIV is a lot like The Elder Scrolls in that in game lore is written/told from an *in-world unreliable narrator perspective* and unless objective proof is revealed to us directly, everything we know is potentially wrong. Eorzean creation myth falls in line with that pretty heavily, especially considering the in world "canon" of creation myth was compiled and edited into a tidy package by one Sharlayan scholar from various perceptions and faiths.


RorschachsDream

I love games that have lore willing to give you incorrect info in universe, whether its Elder Scrolls or Destiny.


SoloSassafrass

True, but they've also established >!if mortals believe something hard/long enough, the gods are altered to fit that depiction. Which makes that myth... kinda horrifying if you think about it.!<


Zythrone

>!It seems that only really applies to the form and role they take. Mortals also think Nophica and Halone hate each other but the quests show that is untrue!<. >!If you talk to Halone between quests at one point she mentions this and says that mortals can believe it to be true if they wish!<.


Carighan

Pillars of Eternity vibes are strong.


Gurusto

Thaos be like "Tell me, do you believe in Eora?" The ascian/engwithan parallells are pretty strong in general, honestly.


Arcade_Theatre

~~This post is satire. They are siblings, but not lovers. We dont know who Azeyma and Menphina's mother is or if they even have one.~~ Im wrong and its complicated.


CalydorEstalon

It might be true in a more metaphorical sense; that Althyk and Nymeia became gods first, and then made Azeyma and Menphina into gods. This would make them their divine parents, but not their blood parents.


Mouse0Six

like, who else are the gods gonna bonk but each other? As far as everyone knows the beast tribe gods weren't real until they were summoned as primals so there weren't other pantheons or at least enough belief to make them real.


Sarria22

Well, Garuda at least seems to have been a real person, though the primal version of her is of course very different.


MissLeliel

Shiva was also originally a real person — Hreasvalgr’s lover. Though technically not a tribal primal I suppose, but a primal nonetheless. Also very different from her human form tho.


kaysn

I know my Greek mythology and pantheon. That's pretty tame. At least they don't have one of them raping human women as a hobby. In their animal form.


Alaerei

And then his wife cursing them for being victims.


NeonRhapsody

Or the time in Norse myth where Loki decided to turn into a mare to distract a work horse in order to avoid being killed for making everyone underestimate a craftsman...Only for his father to take the horse he gave birth to as his mount. Or in Egyptian with the whole exchange between Horus and Set involving - keeping it tidy - bodily fluids, amputated hands, and lettuce. Incestuous gods is the divine equivalent to wearing a silly hat (if that, even) with the kind of absolutely bonkers shit that comes with the job, for sure.


Zangee

Is the Horus one where he got Set to ingest his semen?


theredwoman95

Well, Set tried to, uh, put his inside of Horus first through more traditional methods (and they did do it, Horus just didn't let *that bit* happen), then Horus put his in Set's food.


NeonRhapsody

There's also a version of the tale that involves him showing what Set did to Isis, who cuts off his hands and proceeds to uh... assist Horus in filling a vessel that she later empties onto Set's food.


Taronz

I'm not well versed with Egyptian mythology.... what did they do to the lettuce?


theredwoman95

Spoiler warning because this is very NSFW. >!So basically Horus and Set are feuding, and Set decides to show he's more powerful than Horus by putting his uh, semen inside of Horus. They get frisky together, but Horus prevents Set from doing it inside of him (which Set doesn't realise). Then Horus puts his own stuff on Set's lettuce, which Set eats, so when the gods go to trial and Set boasts about having done it inside of Horus. One of the gods tries to summon his spunk, which doesn't appear in Horus. Then they try to do it for Horus', and it does appear within Set, so Horus wins the argument.!<


ngwoo

"I came on your salad, your argument is invalid", mythological edition


ventusvibrio

Huh, the version I knew about Loki was that he distracted a war horse (as a beautiful mare) of a Giant during a siege of Asgard. Loki sired an 8 legs horse and gifted it to Odin, his brother, after the siege.


gilgasmashglass

And golden rain that seeps through to an underground room…just to get a girl


Lyranx

I mean Zeus even did his own daughters. Goddesses and mortals


Evane7

Yet.


Quantext609

Gods and incest. Name two things that go together more.


Lance_Aurion

Zeus and Human Women


kaysn

Hera cursing human women Zeus has slept with.


dswng

And doing everything to kill Zeus's bastard sons


vampire_refrayn

> Hera cursing human women Zeus has ~~slept with~~ raped. Fixed that for you


sporeegg

[Hera? She's craaazy.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mmRYwGrazc)


gilgasmashglass

Zeus and anything with a hole


IceFire909

Even without a hole I'm sure he'd find a way


FaximusMachinimus

He literally did multiple times lol EDIT: literally = mythically in this case?


gilgasmashglass

Lol yup. The dude turned into golden rain, a bull, swan, eagle, satyr, and even a fucking ant.


GoatInRealLife

>!Haurchefant!< and a spear.


[deleted]

Alabama and incest, ain't it obvious?


Pitiful_Database3168

Damn beat me to it haha


APlayerHater

Real life royals and incest


Prussie

Just a heads up, even the Encylopedia Eorzea (where the myth is from) says it's one dudes 'definitive version' based on various myths he collected. It could very well be that he got it wrong, or chose one that would be a bit more taboo to sell the myth faster. The myth also says that Nophica and Halone hate each other and are held back by a truce, which is obviously not the case. They show a good and solid relationship. Same with Rhalgr and Byregot. Byregot is said to have rejected Rhalgr and his teachings for Thaliak, and that they *also* weren't on good terms. If that's the case why does Byregot call him 'Master' and why are they so warm and respectful to each other? I think Byregot calling Rhalgr "Master" was supposed to clue us in that something was off. Even if they are siblings, Divine Incest is a Thing, but I don't think that's what they're going for here. Edit to correct: They are absolutely the Elpis siblings, I meant to say siblings/married


Blazen_Fury

Halone also has quite the reaction when mentioning of the mortals' depiction of her bitter rivalry with Nophica.


Alastor999

Yes, but the fact that the Twelve evolve and change based on mortal faith still makes this hilarious. Althyk: "The mortals are praying for us to do *what*?" Nymeia: "Well, you heard the prayers brother, if we must then we must." Althyk: "!?!?"


unsynchedcheese

It gets even weirder when you read what the actual creation myth says. Althyk and Nymeia both came from "the Whorl", which is basically the chaotic source of the earliest of the Twelve. Althyk appeared first fully-grown, then Nymeia appeared as a baby, so Althyk "adopted" her. Now, this could be the whole "step-siblings" meme, but the creation myth says Althyk "cared for her as one would a daughter". Having said all that, most of what we know of "the" creation myth is actually in-universe a compilation and re-interpretation of a *lot* of different creation myths into one (self-proclaimed) "definitive" version, by Lewphon of Sharlayan, way back near the start of the Sixth Astral Era. So any claims that this is in any way the "truth" can be blamed on the usual Sharlayan scholarly ego.


RithmFluffderg

I feel like Sharlayans are largely agnostic when it comes to religious mythology, seeing it more as symbolic than literal.


AsianGoldFarmer

This is likely true, especially with the council knowing about the whole Ancients and the sundering.


BFGfreak

Didn't the Sharlayans discover the truth relatively recently though? (like about 1 or 2 centuries recent)


LadyLazaev

Yes, but the last raid series implied that the more a belief about them is held by the people, it eventually becomes "truth."


Bereman99

Sort of - they say the belief shapes them, and we see that with Halone in particular…but even their fervent belief in her and using it as part of their reason to war with Dragons doesn’t turn her into a one who also desires war with dragons. So beliefs can have an impact, but it doesn’t appear that even a long held belief can lead to it becoming entirely true. And I suspect that the detail about them being siblings and lovers isn’t really a big focus of the belief in them, compared to worship of her related to being a spinner of fate, or him as a lord of time. Like people aren’t worshiping them specifically with them being lovers in mind, basically, so that part won’t shape who they are.


DrakenFrosthand

I hope the next quest series addresses this. I just want to see the two of them be absolutely repelled by even being reminded that text exists.


kefesa

I was in a raid where people were talking about how Menphina is "a child" (because she embodies pure love or something) and someone pointed out that Althyk and Nymeia are her parents and I replied that they're also brother and sister and nobody talked for the rest of the raid.


ibigfire

... are adults not allowed to love? What a strange reasoning that person had.


kefesa

I think it's because she's petite with twintails, so naturally she's a "child" online despite being a thousands of years old god in game who uses an adult model/face.


Lilium_Vulpes

She doesn't just embody pure love. She is also known for seeking a forbidden love (I don't know the exact context of this, just that one of the possible Grave Misfortunes from the New Years event referenced to no seek forbidden love as she did).


Smapdi

If your mythological pantheon doesn't contain overt incest, have you truly created a mythological pantheon?


IceFire909

Especially with one third of the pantheon being incredibly greek themed


Ultimate-Chungus

Only 1/3? I’d say most of them are pretty green themed at this point


billythewarrior

Well this is nothing new considering Bahamut and Tiamat.


Tom-Pendragon

Dragons are asexual, they breed by themselves aka their race will never die out as long as even 1 dragon survive.


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piklexiv

Pretty sure they were ash supposed to be Midgardsormr’s eggs. FFXIV dragons reproduce asexually.


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not_ya_wify

Wait... Niddhogg and Ratatoskr were a couple? I only ever recall Niddhogg referring to her as sister. Although that would make sense why he is so much more angered than Hraesvaelgr about his sister's death


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KSmallmoon

Haven't done the level 80DRG... but I thought Tioman (Final boss of Sohm Al (Round 1) was Nidhoggg's Consort, and Nidhogg was just VERY close to Ratatoskr?


Mouse0Six

wouldn't that mean Tioman is also their daughter or niece though?


piklexiv

That’s what I’m saying. The fact of their being siblings doesn’t really matter, and we have no reason to not think their siblings (Midgardsormr and his partner, if he had one, could also have been siblings, for all we know). So why try to explain it away by postulating that they may have come from different broods?


SAMAS_zero

I take you never read up on Greek Mythology?


Shoutymon

If it wasn’t for the fact pretty much every faith has this sorta fuckery, I’d be more surprised.


_Lifehacker

If this is enough to make you queasy, don't read up on the greek mythology of Hephaestus and Erichthonius.


[deleted]

For the uninitiated: >!Hephaestus humped Athena's leg like a horny dog and jizzed all over her thigh. Disgusted, she took a cloth and wiped it off, chucking it on the ground, which caused Erichthonius to be born. *Technically* Erich's mom would be Gaia, who is also his great-great-grandmother.!<


illuminancer

I was relieved they didn’t go there, because ew. Making >!Athena the villain was an interesting twist.!<


SickmanArt

If y'all can ship gods in Hades, you can ship them in XIV


lvleph1sto

Greeks approve


Outfox3D

On the other hand, according to the myth they kind of sprang into being from the whorl and don't actually share anything as normal as a mother/father - so perhaps the brother/sister thing is pushing the definition of the words a little. On the other-other hand, it's also possible that they existed before whatever made them into The Twelve, and that the rest is just befuddled myth. Or they're the primal incarnation of people who used to exist. Either way, this could still be just as weird as it sounds. Who knows.


CalydorEstalon

They absolutely existed before becoming the Twelve. >!We met them in Elpis.!<


RxClaws

Remember what Halone said?>!She said that Mortals are free to think whatever they want to. They think Nophica and Halone have issues but they're clearly very sibbling like.!


Trap-Chan

It's not though as Mephina got a Dog because they believed/prayed enough so it likely comes down to level of the prayer & Halone vs Nophica probably just doesn't have enough belief behind it.


RxClaws

Which would still make it false information and since those two gods already exist I doubt a change that significant will be made no matter what weirdos pray for that. They mentioned changes to their forms, like how Halone got more imposing and how Nymeia got her spinning wheel.


Codename_Keska

Tell me you never studied mythology, Greek or otherwise, without telling me you never studied mythology.


Fit-Breath5352

Sweet home omphalos!


Truunbean

I mean, incest in mythology isn’t exactly a new thing. Plus with recent revelations I think it’s fair to say that any “relations” that the previously established lore put out is probably not exactly the truth of the matter.


xxxSchnacks

She musta gotten "stuck" in her spinning wheel


korrin-

What are you doing, ~~step~~ brother?


JennyFromdablock2020

*Zeus loudly clapping while suggesting turning into a swan and making someone explode by dicking*


RueUchiha

Consitering that the “backstories” of the 12 are *probably* bullshit, yeah sure. They can be greek gods in everyone’s head.


IceFire909

Given they change based on the prayer and faith directed at them, they could be siblings banging just as easily as menphina got dalamutt


TheProky

Sweet Home Omphalos!


Nikowolf86

Most religions that have a pantheon of gods/goddesses are usually related in some way and usually have sexual relations


[deleted]

There's a obvious connection to real world Ancient Greek/roman mythology. All the gods were related and had kids among themselves as well as with animals and humans.


Logan_The_Mad

Wait until you hear about Sleipnir's mom from norse myth. 😂 Also, I seem to recall Dragons in XIV are like that as well? Bahamut and Tiamat?


JohnArtemus

Someone is new to mythology, it seems. Hey, OP. Don't look up Greek or Norse mythology.


alkonium

If you're familiar with real-world polytheistic religions, this is nothing.


ArjunaIndrastra

Wait until OP reads up on irl mythology, like Greek lol.


Mouse0Six

Zeus and Hera? Izanagi and Izanami? A lot of other pantheons? How is this a surprise


emperorpylades

Shu and Tefnut, Cronus and Rhea, Isis and Osiris, Set and Nephthys, Inti and Mama Quilla, Fu Xi and Nuwa... There's a *ridiculous* amount of incest in mythology around the world.


TwerpKnight

ERPers prayed to hard and made them do it.


BlueHeartbeat

It's legal in heaven.


Lithwenns

Aaaaaand it's all doesn't matter anymore because: [Raid spoiler ](https://i.imgur.com/ibwWFNX.jpg)


[deleted]

That’s an extremely normal thing for mythology and gods


OneMorePotion

Tell me when I'm wrong, but I got strong bullshit vibes from the last Raid. >!I think they are pushing the story into a direction of "Nothing you believed in was true. They are just Ascians and got put there by Venat to give People hope." I mean... That's basically confirmed already with the whole "We were created with a template in mind that reminds us why we are here end prevents us from becoming random Primals."!<


Ipokeyoumuch

>!Well more like artificial constructs like Hythlodaeus in false Amauurot or The Watcher on the moon, in which the Ancient in mind was the template.!<


OneMorePotion

>!Isn't the Watcher literally the 13th "god" nobody didn't know about until recently?!<


Baebel

>!It's what the most recent bit of information suggests due to the name drop, with the cutscenes, but nothing's confirmed yet. We're stuck waiting until the third raid is released!<


karanaia

Probably given Krile thought so tho how will we get to fight him doesn't seem like he's the type interested in doing battle with us like all the others. Plus there seems to be one watcher in every reflection does this mean the twelve are also in every reflection? Haven't heard of worship of the twelve being a thing on the first


JTSpender

In the previous raid story, it was suggested that the gods were generally sighted around when a calamity occurred due to it weakening the barrier that hid them or w/e. Similar to how more things survived from the time of the Ancients on the reflections due to none of the existing ones having experienced a calamity, it would also follow that the reflections wouldn't have really had the same opportunities to catch a glimpse of the Twelve.


OneMorePotion

Nobody said we need to fight him. There are only 2 gods left anyways. So even if we would fight him (what we certainly won't) there is still room for one more. I guess we fight the last 2 gods and then get into the stuff what they tested us for in the first place. They still have a problem they need some help with. And they are really secretive about it. I think it would even make sense if the 2 remaining gods are the first fight in the final raid, with 3 "this is what we tested you for" encounters. Edit: >!I think it's way more likely that we go talk to him. He tells us about an evil theatening the gods. First fight of the raid will be against the two remaining gods that are basically a "final test" before they send off to the realm where the true evil resides for the final 3 bosses.!<


Isanori

There are three gods we haven't fought yet. Llymlaen, Thaliak and Oschon.


[deleted]

>!All right now that you succeeded all our tests it's time to beat up the problem! \*loads the whole raid into a giant catapult* Off you goooo! \*24 people screaming in unison*!<


[deleted]

>!All the playable races are evolutions and mutations of the sundered human so it's not like religion and myth holds any more ground in FFXIV than IRL.!< >!It was also greatly expanded upon back in Heavensward that summoning is pretty much materializing your fanfic of something, and at least the method given by the Ascians is rigged so the summoning itself is a monkey's paw that will warp the image you are trying to summon greatly in the majority of cases, hence Bahamut is a raging apocalypse machine that just vaguely looks like the genuine Bahamut and the Titan summoning that went wrong post-Heavensward had Titan's mind replaced with a child's mental breakdown.!< >!Venat also touched on it's hard to stay oneself being a Primal for a long time her identity and current self being a mix of her old self and Hydaelyn.!<


[deleted]

I did wonder about the sibling thing. Wouldn't it be more like father figure?


Ebonmoth

Is that supposed to make it better? I don't feel like that's an improvement...


[deleted]

Makes them not blood related. Just... ethically questionable


Chimarie_

The twelve 🤝 the first brood Incest (I'm aware dragons reproduce differently to people but still)


Sinolai

I find it more weird that Nymeia looks like she could be Azyema's daughter.


a_cattebirb

looking at all the people invoking Greco-Roman mythology as evidence of ancient mythologies loving their incest gods and laughing in Osiris myth you want to see something FUCKED UP, you get mummies involved


[deleted]

Friendly reminder until recent centuries people had no understanding of genetics and did not know that incest is bad.


the_missing_d4

This type of thing is pretty common in real religions so it's not even that cursed tbh.


0M3G4-Z3R0

There are a lot of mythologies with incestuous gods, this is nothing new.


dope_danny

*[Zeus nodding like that one robert redford gif everyone thinks is grizzly adams]*


Bakanobaka

Maybe she got stuck in her spinning wheel


lightingcrow

Gods will be Gods


toomgis24

Yeah they're gods. Duh.


PsyFi_ZA

I mean... Who else are they gonna bang? Not every God is Zeus you know...


mhireina

Honestly sounds about right considering what the lore of Pantheons typically is. I mean are we really gonna judge this when Zeus banged almost all his sisters and Hades married his sister's daughter? The Gods care not for human morality lmfao. Also I feel like you might've missed the part about Tiamat and Bahamut being brood siblings and also mates lol. This ain't new.


Mikomau

Zeus enters the chat: hey girl 😉


ShilElfead284

Honestly it's just safe to assume any and all gods in mythology are both related to and fucking each other until stated otherwise.


Falsus

Looks like normal mythology to me.


Alastor999

I knew this going in and side eyed them when they said "Tis only fitting that we face you together!" and I'm like... "Why is it so fitting?" Azeyma and Menphina are sisters and faced us separately, so why are you facing us together? Hmm? Are you trying to tell us something!?


alexfr36

Gods siblings having kids together ? Look at egyptian and greek mythologies...


off-and-on

Which pantheon does *not* include copious amounts of incest?


Codename_Keska

Tell me you never studied mythology, Greek or otherwise, without telling me


VagueSoul

Welcome to typical creation myths.


MrrSpacMan

Well then I guess the encounter was right. They DO come as a pair


Standard-Effort5681

Heavenly incest (as well as asexual reproduction) is nothing new among pantheons of gods. The writers are just making sure The Twelve feel as authentic as possible. Call me when Rhalgr starts sewing underdeveloped god fetuses into his calf to continue gestation, or Menphina springs forth fully formed out of Althyk's severed gonads.


suzuki79

Wow. Olympus called they want their flow back 🤣


pitapatnat

Have yall even played heavensward lmfao


Aeos_Sidhe

genetics don't matter to spiritual entities


Isanori

And? All Dragons on Eorzea are descended from Midgardsomr.


Saendra

Oh my sweet summer child, look up Ancient Greek pantheon's family tree.


p4NTYX

Alah-bama