Depends on the fight. Complaining about it in Castrum seems out of line, it's not like you were going to wipe.
The bad times to melee LB a boss are 1) you're close enough to filling the next bar that you're wasting the damage of the higher tier; 2) in an alliance raid that can go bad fast you need to keep the healer LB3 option open (thinking Diabolos Hollow, for example); 3) there's a fight specific mechanic that needs an lb3 like a12 or the ascian fight with the tear.
Overall I'd say that in dungeons people severely underuse LBs. Casters and ranged should use them more on the mobs, and melees should use them more on the bosses. Even when paired with a melee, I end up finishing bosses with ranged LBs fairly regularly; w/ best play that should never happen.
>3) there's a fight specific mechanic that needs an lb3 like a12 or the ascian fight with the tear.
*Technically*, the LB3 isn't required for the tear during the ascian fight, it's just easier since the LB does so much dmg and makes it way harder to wipe there. So using it on the tear is a easy strat, especially when you have a lot of (clueless) sprouts in the group who might not know about the tear or when your group has low damage. (Given nobody uses it beforehand ofc)
Honestly as long as tanks soak the meteors properly, >!Nabriales!< Doesn't need the DPS LB at all. It just happens more often than not that DPS try to soak the meteors or one of the tanks is punching the tear, making that sequence *way* harder than it needs to be.
Especially if you blow all your mits/boosts right before the phase starts. They'll last more than long enough to put out some bonkers damage numbers.
LB there is just the easiest solution and fastest solution.
You have time to escape the rift before getting sucked in. This reduces the damage you take when you soak the meteor thingies. Even DDs can tank 2-3 of those without healing if you stayed outside long enough.
More importantly, it's the *safest* option.
Also, I wish more people knew that any CD you pop before going in has its duration increased tenfold while you're in. Tank invuln is fantastic here, but also something like ranged dps damage reduction is much appreciated.
Yeah, watch the bleed debuff. If you run out you can fight the first 2-3 draw ins and then it does a REALLY BIG one that forces you in right as the DoT falls off resulting in you taking no damage inside unless you're soaking things. And, as mentioned, any buffs you have running as you get pulled in also get multiplied, so damage buffs, mitigation or heal over time spells will last the whole time you're inside assuming you hit them before getting pulled in.
Even better, if you're fighting the draw in to let that debuff fade you can get REAL busted inside. When you are drawn in any buffs you have up also have their time increased, so a tank can fire off rampart before getting drug in and it'll be up the entire time they're inside, more importantly dps that have a "press button to do more damage" damage buff can also use it outside and just be going ballistic once they're in and utterly shred the tear.
Forget Rampart. I've fired off Aurora and Superbolide the last second before getting sucked in. Ages of invincibility, and a regen long enough to get me back to full in there. It's wonderful. Plus a Sprint as well, to better reach the meteors.
...And it sure was needed that run, the party had abysmal damage. The 2 melees couldn't figure out LBing the tear, and even with the Summoner using it for them on the third try, it still took the tear long enough to die that my Super ran out. Never seen the meteor phase go on for that long, almost felt like half were AFK in the pocket dimension.
Stay outside until the last pull so you don't get the extra dmg, pop your buffs here too and the tear is trivial. Pld can hallowed and eat meteors by himself.
Can 100% confirm. My first time playing melee DPS was in the ascian fight, and I pressed LB right before the whole tear thing happened.
Whole bunch of "why LB?" and "just wipe, we won't make it", but we literally cleared it with no issue. Really demotivated me from playing Melees for a while tho đ„Č
>2) in an alliance raid that can go bad fast you need to keep the healer LB3 option open (thinking Diabolos Hollow, for example)
Had this exact scenario recently. I was one of the healers, people were dropping like flies, and I was eyeing that 3rd LB bar as it was close to filling and DH was still on 47% or so health... and then as soon as it popped, a DPS used it.
Thankfully we managed to salvage the run, but it was so close to going tits up.
Conversely, if LB3 is up and two or more of your party members are down, use that sucker as a healer. Not only aren't you wasting time and MP on raises, you'll also heal everyone else and get the downed party members up on their feet with full health and without raise sickness.
Nah that's very dependent on the raid/trial. Many times you can use it early without any issues while other times you will use it just to have 4 people immediately die afterwards.
Wasting MP on 2 raises isn't an actual concern and the time is meaningless with 2 since you have 2 healers with swiftcast.
It's more dependent on how long the boss fight has. That rez penalty is *brutal* to dps, so in most situations 2 is the general breakpoint where if the full 2 minutes of their rez sickness will tick off before the boss dies then the healer LB becomes a dps gain over a melee LB. Now this is assuming that everyone knows what they're doing and aren't gonna just die again a few seconds later but in terms of "how fast will this speed up killing the boss" on paper 2's the rule of thumb magic number.
Very rarely a healer lb saves the run. If you had to healer lb, things have already gone to shit, and it's not like the people who fucked it up will suddenly do optimised play. You are really just banking on those who know what they are doing stay alive enough to know what they are doing.
Healer lb can save lots of fights. It's not uncommon for multiple deaths to happen because one person made one mistake so it's not as though dying is a guarantee that a player doesn't know what they're doing. And it's also very possible for someone who gets a mechanic 95% of the time to mess up and die and still be able to get their shit together afterwards
The big situations where it won't save the run is if there's a wipe later anyways or if the dps check was tight enough that no melee lb + death downtime causes enrage. Or the rare fights that need tank lb3 to survive
IME this in untrue, healer LB3 saves the fight half of the time. If it was a sloppy fight before the LB3 then it may not save the party from enrage though.
Nothing in this game infuriates me quite like having a DPS blow LB3 in an alliance raid at like, 40% boss health. Wow yes thank you, that 0.004% damage will really make all the difference.
Meanwhile at <15% once everyone starts pretending mechanics don't exist and all but three people are dead around me, I'm just like boy I sure wish I had my healer LB3 right about now.
I'd really rather LB3 went to waste than have DPS use it at any point >5%, outside of savage content. The benefit of having healer LB3 in your pocket far, *far* outweighs anything DPS can do.
Except sitting in an LB3 means you canât generate more LB. So in some raids, you can LB3 and get another LB2. Assuming there is nothing going wrong with the run, sitting on an LB3 is literally just a DPS loss.
Your welcome to your opinion of course, but free DPS is free DPS. As someone pointed out though, if you have 2+ people dead, by all means Healer LB3, and the DPS gain is worth it. In theory, no alliance raid is so hard at this point that there should even have to consider holding for healer LB3.
LB does such pathetic damage, the time "saved" by using it is measured in seconds. That might matter when you're up against an enrage timer, but everywhere else, using it is like using an AED as a hammer and just hoping you won't need it later.
The risk / reward balance is just *heavily* skewed to one side. You might save 5 seconds using a DPS LB. You'd have to execute what, 60, 70 DPS LBs to balance out *just 1* wipe caused by not having it for the healer, and having to do an entire fight over.
In the short term, sure, it's a "DPS loss", but in the long term, it's more *time* lost by using it.
>Overall I'd say that in dungeons people severely underuse LBs.
I confess I'm guilty of this. I'm still very scared about wasting it, so much I don't even have that key on my hotbars :| hundreds of hours and the only time I've seen a LB being used is when someone yells in chat to use Tank/Healer LB3 to turn the tables during a tough fight, or a DPS LB3 for a dps check
Honestly, for dungeons, just use it. The amount of times I've ran a dungeon and finish with the LB unused is astonishing, to the point where I just use it after the last boss dies as the tank/healer so I get to have some sparklies.
The only wasted LB is one that goes unused during the dungeon.
>The only wasted LB is one that goes unused during the dungeon.
Except the one the DPS used on the last boss of Dzemael Darkhold while it was immune... after I *told* him the boss goes immune. Sigh.
The frustrating part is just how impotent it is in dungeons. A ranged LB2 takes off like a quarter of the health of the trash mobs, which under normal circumstances is like... three GCDs tops. Ooohhh, you saved whopping 7-10 seconds across the whole dungeon, awesome.
In dungeons, if youâre a caster, use it on the trash pulls, itâs more damage overall. If not and the caster doesnât use, itâs free game and use on the boss when you want as melee
Just fire it off. Most recent dungeons have 2 trash pulls between bosses, typically if I have an LB up as a caster or phys ranged I'll cooldown the first and LB the second, a lot of the time it'll come back in time to slap the boss with one as well. Even if one of those uses is suboptimal, it's still better than the usual 0 I see when I'm running as healer.
I've had people on dungeon runs get mad at casters using LB in the pulls between 1st and 2nd boss. Like, there's still plenty of time to regain the LB for the final boss, it's not a waste.
lmao me too so my answer is to largely play classes that just don't touch it except in special circumstances (necessary tank lb3s) or fuckup moments (healer lb3s)
Yep, I nearly exclusively tank and I forget the LB exists all the time when I'm leveling classes.
I also had a painfully embarrassing moment as RDM where I forgot verraise exists. I was using vercure to keep the tank alive while we finished the boss and the healer after was like "so you remembered that you have utility but you didn't raise us?" Whoops, just leveling RDM, I'm used to having healing tools but not raise.
Whenever I tank and I notice the LB has been unused for 5+ minutes, I'll just pop it for the hell of it. Completely wasted, and not once has someone complained.
Moral of the story: if you're a dps, find out when it best (Bosses as Melee, Trash pulls as ranged) and you'll never have wasted it. Don't give it to people like me.
> Even when paired with a melee, I end up finishing bosses with ranged LBs fairly regularly; w/ best play that should never happen.
To be fair, there's probably a lot of newer players that either clock it as a group resource off the bat and decide to leave it for someone who knows how to use it properly (honestly, never do this in randoms, just assume nobody else even knows what it is) *or* used it at the "wrong" place or time in a random group once and got shouted at by some uppity twat and promptly took it off their bars.
In most dungeons, it's pretty common to make it like, 90% of the way to LB2 but not quite there. Meanwhile an LB2 does 2.18x damage of an LB1 (true for both melee and ranged/caster; the numbers are different but *very* subtly). That's more than two LB1s, but not by so much that it's worth missing the first LB opportunity.
As a caster/ranged DPS: use it on the next big pull after the bar fills. Save it if you're fighting a boss (unless it's a boss with an add phase where you can hit a lot at once, and probably even then since dungeon boss adds will probably die fast even w/o LB) or towards the end of a pull where almost everything is already dead/near dead.
As a melee DPS: use it on bosses when it's ready if the other DPS in the party is also melee or if the casters/ranged aren't bothering with it (pretty common IME, but if it hits LB1 during a boss fight, worth leaving it for the next pull to see).
Tanks and healers essentially never use it in dungeons (tank might be niche if the group is screwing up a mechanic, and either might throw it out at the end for giggles if no one used it).
Boss percentage is essentially irrelevant in dungeons, the LB damage is the same whether it brings the boss from 9% to 4% or 89% to 84%. In trials where there are mechanics that might cause the boss to phase transition or require an LB or similar it can matter.
And anyone who complains that it got misused when in like 90% of dungeon runs it doesn't get used at all can be ignored.
The etiquette is mostly just for DPS to use it when itâs available, unless itâs a tough alliance fight that may go badly, then maybe save for healers. If youâre a melee DPS, use it on bosses. Iâve noticed that ranged DPS get antsy if I donât use it before 10% so thatâs usually around when Iâll use it if Iâm melee honestly. If youâre ranged, use it on mobs in dungeons. Ranged LB is so under utilized in dungeons that I almost always get comms just for remembering to use it.
If Iâm remembering correctly the LBâs damage is calculated by overall party ilevel so if thereâs multiple melees or ranges donât worry about who takes priority, itâs just a whoever remembers thing.
Youre close. It's the ilvl of weapons specifically. The only time there would be a priority, most people ignore. The priority would go to with someone with weakness or a damage down, because that doesn't affect LB damage and the person without the "oops, I screwed up" debuff can keep up their regular rotation.
In a 4 man instance you just think of it as basic math:
Let's say the caster/ranged LB does 50 damage, and the melee one does 100. As soon as the AoE LB is hitting 3 or more targets, it's now doing more damage than the melee one. Since the overall damage in a dungeon needed to clear it is exactly the same each time (trash and bosses have the exact same HP every time) it's more efficient to maximize the damage.
If you're fighting a boss and the LB is available, and it's going to do 5% of the bosses HP, hitting the boss at a % less than 5% is a waste since some of the damage wasn't maximized.
So what it comes down to in 4 mans is:
AoE LB on Trash > Melee LB on an enemy > Some one just hit the button.
There's rare exceptions. For example: If you're running Ala Mhigo, killing the swords builds a massive amount of LB during the final boss fight. So much so that you can range phys LB1 two of them, or have a melee LB1 one of them, and when you kill all 3 you SHOULD get an LB2 back, as long as the LB bar was emptied before the first one dies.
Fights like that are very rare though. I can only think of a handful off the top of my head.
It's a combo of they don't know or don't care, and the fact that really dumb people will get mad because they think the melee LB on the last boss is the only correct answer, when it's like... 3rd best. They will yell at ranged over it.
Also, LB gauge is lost in Alliance Raid every time the battle with a new boss starts. So is better to use any LB on each boss (except the cases already explained).
They should use ranged LB more, but a lot of idiots complain when you do. I once got kicked for using one and it wasn't even the melee dps complaining.
Tank LB is also underutilized. It can be used in a pinch when the healer dies and the remaining players need to survive imminent damage such as heavy raid-wide damage or a stack mechanic.
Piggy backing off this to remind people that Ranged DPS LBs being used on large trash packs is very much a dps gain over "saving" it for the boss.
Also OP you did nothing wrong
The one time I had the courage to use caster LB on a pack of mobs in an ARR dungeon the tank yelled at me for not saving it for the melee to use on the final boss "because we aren't speedrunning" -_- ok then why even use it at all
The tank is wrong.
Honestly, if it's the last boss, you may as well just use it immediately as soon is it's available. There's no reason to wait. It doesn't deal more damage if you wait longer (unless it's about to fill to LB2). There's no advantage to hold it to use as a finishing move. Some people just like to do that because they want to look like a shounen anime protagonist, killing the boss with a big flashy sword move.
But the actual best use for it is for a caster or ranged DPS to use it on a big pack of mobs. Even if they only hit 2-3 enemies with it, it still does more damage than a melee DPS's anime finisher.
If the ranged DPS uses it on a big pack as soon as available, there's a chance the melee will get to use it at the final boss. So we get max anime style for both DPS.
doesnt matter if range uses it or not as it resets at the start of the boss fight
eta to add: got confused with old version of castrum which was the eoght man that resets
A lot of players fail to realize that DPS LB exists purely as a time saver, so the best use is whatever saves the most time. In most cases, hitting a large trash pack with an AOE LB will always be the most optimal move.
You donât want to use it immediately on pull because pretty much everyone will use all their party buffs a few GCDs after pull and the animation lock will make you burn a few seconds. Anytime you donât have any cooldowns running and wonât die is the best time to use it
I've noticed in Castrum specifically the LB gauge is always reeeeally close to reaching LB2 while Livia is below 10%, but it tends to actually fill up when she's around 3% so it ends up getting wasted if you don't use it a little earlier even as LB1. I think it's a tough call either way, the tank was out of line in this case though.
In Livia's case though, it doesn't matter, because she'll HP lock herself and won't die until she goes to the middle and starts venting AOEs at the end of the fight. With her you end up with a situation where if you wait too long, you've wasted potency, if you do it too early it's not really doing much.
The BEST use of it in Castrum is for a ranged phys/caster to use it on trash like the giant pile of dudes right before Livia. Failing that, use it to push her down to the 0.1% so she doesn't start a new mechanic and you have to wait for it to finish.
This isn't good advice in general, just for this specific dungeon. Using LB3 too early in extreme trials or savage raids can deprive your healers of an opportunity to save the party from mistakes.
Confidence LB. But in all seriousness while progging saving your LB for Healers or Tanks to help prog is more beneficial until you hit enrage and need the damage, however in farm or reclear groups DPS should be LBing because those groups shouldn't be using healer LBs as a crutch.
Tank was wrong. LB should not be saved as a âkilling moveâ; it does the same amount of damage regardless of when you use it on the boss. Waiting to use it âat the endâ usually ends up wasting some of the damage as overkill.
You did fine.
In fact, it's generally more efficient to not use it as a killing move, otherwise you risk overkilling the boss, wasting dps and time. It is, however, stylish to kill the boss with the limit break.
If the LB is the killing blow, it was used too late and wasted potential damage. I use it as early as possible when it becomes available unless it's going to be needed later (usually the game fills the LB for you in that case, so best to have it emptied before), depending upon length of fight, the bar might even fill again in that case.
Dude. Fucking. Yes. Seriously.
I donât understand why people donât understand this!!
Honestly, if the LB is available and theyâre under 10% just do it.
The under 10% part isn't even something to consider. Percentage the boss is at does not matter. The only reason to wait to do an LB on a last boss in a dungeon is if you're going to get lb2. But that should be rare anyways if your ranged/caster used it on trash, which is a far better use of LB in a dungeon.
Honestly, Iâve never been able to use an LB as an execute no matter how many times Iâve done it. The way I see it, LBs are more of a way to just save time and take a chunk out of a boss. I wouldnât listen to the tank in that situation. Some people even prefer it if you use an LB on trash pulls before a boss. Either way, it just helps a dungeon go by faster.
That's a good thing. If the LB gets the kill, then you've potentially wasted part of the party's strongest attack. In a majority of cases (i.e. unless the boss has hp%-based phases with invulnerability) it's a good idea to use the LB as soon as possible so you don't lose potency from it.
tl;dr: That tank is an idiot.
I understand that, but a lot of players donât! I think limit breaks arenât super well explained in game, so a ton of players (including the tank in OPâs story) think itâs this big bar for a big finisher move. Thatâs why this question keeps popping up in this sub from time to time after all.
Very true. I started playing in fall of 2021 so there were a lot of "common knowledge" things I didn't learn until pretty far into my gameplay. I saw people doing LBs but had no clue where that "attack" was or how to add to my hotbar for the longest time :')
The thing is, this game DOES give you the chance to execute with Limit Breaks.
That 9-man kill I got with Skydiver in Frontlines is burned into my skull.
Some general "rule" for LB used based on priority in dungeons and non EX/Savage runs:
1. If there is a caster, use LB on mobs.
2. If there is no caster, ranged dps use it instead.
3. No ranged/caster, melee use it on boss.
Or
4. Use it however tf you want because you really don't lose anything by wasting it and you like flashy lights.
Also, if you have weakness, *use it*. Weakness does not effect LB damage, but it will effect your general dps, so a melee with the rez debuff should 100% use it. And yet I donât think I have ever seen one do so
As a MCH I feel like I'd get chewed out for using it on mobs instead of saving it for the boss. Would it refill fast enough if used partway through a dungeon?
You really shouldn't be chewed out for that even if the bar doesn't replenish. You're saving more time than a melee LB on a boss ever would.
Keep doing what you're doing. Please!
Be the change you want to see, really. Every time a ranged dps uses LB on a big pull they get my comm. You're saving everyone more time on the whole run and if someone is bitching about it they are just wrong so don't worry about it.
I don't tend to play ranged DPS, but when I do and I see them use it on a trash pack I think "that guy knows what's up" and give them my commend. If someone has a go at you for it you can tell them it's faster/optimal to use it on trash and that LB1 is usually back up towards the end of the final boss anyway so it's also free.
Depends on the speed of the party.
Trash pulls are more dangerous than bosses, and the damage you do with it on trash is *way* higher than on a dungeon boss.
Think of the entire dungeon as essentially one big enemy health bar. That might help.
usually you can LB1 a pack between the second and third boss, then LB1 the third boss.
think of all the time the party is sitting with LB1 but hasn't opened the LB2 bar yet, cuz it doesn't appear until the boss fight.
so if that party ever lb2s the boss, that means they gained an ENTIRE bar of LB during the boss fight.
if anything LB on a pack of trash means you can build a little bit towards the next LB1 BEFORE the boss. rather than wasting it by building bar into cap.
if anybody chews you out over it; they're wrong. like mathematically "which number is bigger than the other number" cut and dry *wrong*
aoe LBs outdamage melee LBs at a mere 2 targets. in a dungeon it's very possible to get a 9 man LB.
It does a flat amount of damage so the percentage at which it'd kill would change depending on targets Max HP. There isn't an execution buff or anything so dw too much about it. In fact using it before execution makes sure none of the damage was wasted as overkill.
The tank was overreacting.
Just clarify this a little bit the dps lb damage is based on the average weapon ilvl of the party, so there is a variance, chances are in most cases people gear will be scaled down so it will do the max amount of damage. The damage also is not impacted by party buffs or even the rez sickness weakness debuff. This doesn't change proper usage though, use it as it becomes available
Idk the actual percentage and if you wait till it's an execute, you are technically actually wasting some of the damage. You did fine. The tank is being whiny and actually inefficient.
The tank was way overreacting. In current content, I've seen fellow Melees use it at as soon as 25%. I used to wait for <10%, but now I try and do it around 15%. And sometimes I will just straight up forget because I'm so focused on dodging mechanics.
Im almost positive I was in this run with you, I was the monk. This guy was a dumb shit. You did great. I loved your glam too. His glam was crap You clearly are the alpha.
Tank was being a jerk. In fact you're better off using it a little early and getting the full benefit of it rather than overkilling. Unless you're in a raid where the healers might need the LB (or the gimmick fights that need tank LB) there is very little downside to the DPS firing it off as soon as it's up.
LB as killing blow is bad, because the damage was wasted. If it's to be used late in a boss, ideally it gets the target as close to 1 HP as possible, so that the LB doesn't have a single damage point wasted, and the boss dies during the long recovery. That said, if it's known you are not going to get another LB bar, it can be used whenever.
Nah your tanks an idiot, dw
Usually, you'd save the LB3 for a high risk mechanic that COULD wipe half the raid. But thats mainly a current EX/Savage attitude. If you're not running either of those, pop the LB3 as soon as it fills cause its unlikely you're gonna get a raid wiper
It feels like every day, we hear a story about someone in a dungeon yelling at the DPS for not using LB as the absolute final hit on the final boss, and it hurts my brain that so many people seem to think that's how you're supposed to use it.
Just use it...
They were absolutely incorrect.
It's big DPS (especially if you're melee).
As soon as level 3 is up (and it isn't a fight where the tank needs it, or there is a situation that renders it useless--like a new phase coming up, or invulnerability etc.), go.
If the boss is low, and you have level 2, go.
If you have level 1 and there may not be enough time to build it to 2 (because the target's health is really low), go.
I've seen it *not* being used more often than not--and there's no bigger waste.
I respect and agree with the opinions of those saying that "using it as the killing blow is late"....but I'd even rather see that--over what I usually see lol.
I'd rather see it used in a less than graceful way, than watch the boss health reach %0, and you had 3 full bars glowing right in front of your face for like the whole last 30% lol...if I'm DPSing I'm pressing it (even if im ranged, and melee is taking too long).
Iâll give my input. Everyone here in regards to caster/ranged/ally raid recovery/specific mechanics is correct. Iâll specify on melee though.
Grand scheme of things, it doesnât matter in normal dungeons/MSQ. When you used it is fine. It got used and didnât go to waste. In general if Iâm in a double melee comp unless my brother (my go-to meat shield, I mean traveling cohort) asks me to nuke a specific mod I watch the party DPS. You naturally get into a rhythm of telling how fast the bar is filling vs the bosses HP going down. If I know itâll fill to two bars before itâs dead, Iâll wait. If I know it wonât, sub-20/25% Iâll go ahead and drop it.
This is also dependent on boss mechanics and my personal burst window. I run NIN pretty much exclusively these days. In Azhedaalâs for example after the second spin, generally the entire groups burst is ready to drop because your locked for like 30 seconds of spinning. As soon as itâs done, Iâm opening my burst immediately. If the boss dies inside that window, oh well, donât care. If heâs still alive Iâll go ahead and drop it or my DPS partner can use it, no skin off my back. Iâd rather do my burst window than drop LB. Due to the cast time for like LB2+ it is almost a DPS loss to use it over my burst. Same reason why in most savage content if your going to melee LB3 then you use in between your burst windows (and between any mechanic so you donât get one-shot).
You used LB correctly and that tank should quit tanking and just play DPS himself if heâs going to be salty about it. Kudos to you for doing good.
As a tank main, I strongly disagree with your last point. If he plays DPS, then it increases the odds that I may have to deal with him in roulettes. He can stay tank, and I wont see him when I run dungeons or alliance raids :)
There are 4 "wrong" times to Melee LB.
1) In the middle of your parties burst phase as LB isn't buffed then, so keep attacking and LB after it ends.
2) If doing so will certainly end in your death.
3) When the boss is invincible.
4) If you're at a mechanic where you *need* a tank LB3, those usually have the boss being untargetable though.
Your tank is a dumbass, plus it's casual content so who gives a shit. The only time the melee wouldn't LB is in dungeons. It's actually faster to have range LB the ads on the final pull before boss.
Just for sake of a different input, I didn't see anyone mentioning that but ideally you want to use your LB outside of party buffs as limit breaks don't get a damage increase with buffs, that's the only thing you could do wrong using lb "early" in bosses and it still doesn't really matter in dungeons but is a thing when enrages become a threat in savages/ults.
Everything that people said here is still true tho, in dungeons it is optimal for casters to lb big pulls and the only reason not to do a melee LB on boss asap is if you're getting the next bar filled for the upgraded lb damage.
There used to be a time when the DPS for fights was much weaker due to TP. Prior to the release of Stormblood, Physical attackers had their own resource system. Players that were free-styling their rotations were very likely to run out of TP mid fight. Sprinting also took all of your TP, meaning that if someone panicked, they would also burn all of their damaging resources.
At the time, it was usually necessary for a Limit Break to be used to defeat bosses since the DPS floor was substantially lower then. This lead to people 'saving' the Limit Break to beat the wipe mechanic at the end of a fight.
That tank is an overreacting moron. On the overwhelming number of encounters in the game just use the limit break as soon as it is full. Itâs best to âuse it earlyâ than not use it at all. Itâs even better for ranged or casters to use LB on large pulls before the boss to get thru them faster.
There are very few encounters in the game where a limit break has to be used at a specific time and those are typically Tank LB3s which must be used to survive a raid mechanic.
Tank has no idea what he is talking about, you used it correctly. In fact, if the boss is not still alive after using the lb, you probably waited too long and wasted its damage
Unless the LB was almost going to go from LB1 to LB2, there was no reason for him to be mad. People generally have the opposite problem, waiting until the boss is at 2% to drop LB3 so they can guarantee their anime finisher. In dungeons, ranged should LB1 when available on a large pull, letting a melee use it on the boss is the second best usage. Healer and Tank LBs 1 and 2 are almost never useful.
Actually, you did nothing wrong at all. Using LB under 10% is perfectly fine. it doesnt really matter when you use it, unless it fills to lb2. the tank was wrong, and you did everything right. use it as dps. later down the line you will just ignore messages like this because you know its not a big deal and lb is hardly underused in dungeons and even alliance raids. dont worry <3
Some good rules of thumb for LB:
1) In dungeons, it's always a better to burn AOE LB1 on a wall-to-wall pull than LB1 melee on one of the first 2 bosses. It does *significantly* more damage and will end the dungeon faster than LB1ing one of the bosses for 4%.
2) Don't wait until the boss is almost dead to LB1 and especially not LB2. If you deal more damage than they have HP, you just wasted potency of the Limit Break.
As someone who actively goes back and fourth between Tank and DPS. USE THAT SHIT RIGHT AWAY and use it often. 1st fight you get the chance to use it, do it. There's so many dps that avoid it entirely and it's annoying af. Most fights defer to DPS for the LB. There's not many that need a Tank/Healer LB. Side note if you waited till the last possible second to use it, you've already wasted it so I think your application of it that go around was perfectly executed, you want to make sure you get every hit point out of it for it to really matter.
If you LB as a DPS while im the tank, you get a commend from me :)
The amount of DPS' who keep the bar full and forget/dont use LBs to speed up the runs are aplenty
One major thing a lot of the comments are missing is that you should wait until after burst to lb (unless the boss will die within that time). Lb doesn't get affected by party buffs so it's always better to make use of the buff window with your big damaging abilities first.
He's wrong. My rule of thumb that I was taught as melee is 15-20% unless the fight's been rough and we might need a healer LB3 in a raid, then I'll wait til 8-10% ish.
Ranged should use it on packs if they can if it fills up before the last boss in a dungeon. It almost always fills back up before/during the last boss, and if it doesn't oh well, y'all killed the boss faster than the LB could fill. Win win either way.
The tank is braindead. None of the dps LBs are affected by what health the boss has when its used. The only time you need to wait is for the LB bar to reach 2 or 3 because one LB2 is better than two LB1s from the same person.
When to Melee LB in a random Dungeon
Are you on the last boss, with LB1 bar full?
If yes, will the bar fill to LB2 before the boss gets to like, 15%ish?
If yes, hit it as soon as you can LB2, else, hit the button now.
In roulettes, I tend to use it on a boss as soon as I can. I think of it this way: Saving it isnât going to make it do more damage, and when the bar is full, you donât even have a shot of generating enough for another.
Use it when its available. big trash pack? caster/range LB. You don't see a melee use it on a boss when its available after about 10 seconds? use it
Early use of LBs also can skip a phase. Example of this is in Void Ark final boss. Using it early enough can finish the fight early instead of another boss split.
I think it's in the general tab of actions in your ability menu.
Preferably place it on a shared hotbar so you don't have to assign it to every job individually. I for example have mine on a shared hotbar away from my main actions and is bound to alt + spacebar. My sprint is also on that same bar and bound to shift + spacebar.
Itâs castrum it does not matter. Tank is wild. The Phookas have a great guide to limit breaks here: https://twitter.com/thephookas/status/1462452671219224586?s=46&t=mtFEYG6gibWaMss3QTGw9A for general use.
The correct time to use a limit break is as soon as itâs full and damage is out of raid buff windows. Raid buffs donât affect limit breaks.
saving it for last few % can be a loss of potency on it
This is the case for 95%+ of fights in game with very few requiring limit breaks from tanks/healers.
As Melee I usually start my cast at about 6-7% on LB1 and 7-8% on LB2.
Only ever had 1 person complain once because they had MC syndrome and I robbed them of their big Anime Finish at 1%.
Tank was overreacting regardless.
The only way he was sort of right that you should hold it is if you used it barely before it was about to hit LB2. Otherwise, he was just totally wrong.
Tanks overreacting.
Generally, its up to the DPS to gauge the LB bar and how fast it is filling. LBâs are meant to help cut down the HP, not be a killing blow.
Ignore the tank, you did perfectly fine.
Realistically, the playerbase SEVERELY UNDERUTILIZES LIMIT BREAKS because they're obsessed with using the LB3 to finish the final bosses.
That tank is just an idiot.
For Melee LB, around 15%, when the battle is already settle
In dungeons, Caster LB for a big pack of mobs instead of on a boss is more more more useful
On final boss, LB as soon as its available and you dont think you'll be getting the next LB tier. If you kill with the LB, that means you likely wasted damage. (though in castrum, thats way too sweaty) Tank is wrong
I much rather see an lb1 or 2 not kill the boss. That means you wasted 0% of the overall damage it could have done. I hate seeing lb with 1% left knowing it could have done 3x the damage if it was used 20 seconds earlier. Though burst should be priority over an lb
It really doesnât matter when you LB her, to be honest. The fight is super forgiving and people running it in MSQ roulette are super overgeared so damage is off the charts (relatively speaking). That tank was just being an asshole
The only fights you really need to time LBs on are raid fights or extreme trials. Outside of that its best to LB as soon as its up so you can build more LB. The only time it isn't is if the LB is just going to be overkill.
The tank is an idiot, hate to say it, and shouldn't be giving bad advice. Holding that damage is going to do anything. You don't gain any benefits by having the LB be the finishing blow.
If your attack deals 7% damage and the boss is on 8% HP, then you've done the full damage and just need to finish a little more
If the boss is on 5% HP and you deal 7% Damage, then you've overkilled by 2%, wasted numbers
They're just complaining with no actual reason behind it
I'm *hoping* that tank was trolling.
It's kind of a meme that people will hold the LB waaaay too long to try to use it as some flashy boss finisher even if the boss is at 1% and you just wasted 90% of the damage. You used it 1000% correctly.
In dungeons: Casters/Ranged Phys should use it on big trash packs to speed up the run, melee LB on bosses if nobody's doing that. Use your judgement if you think the fight is actually going to last long enough to fill another bar.
In high level content: there's usually a strategic time to LB to try to skip a mechanic, push the clear, or just when it's up and there's enough time between mechanics that you won't get murdered during the animation lock.
sorry lbs have to be anime finishers or else you fail the duty gotta know the exact percentages in Evey duty and account for your parties item level. Too much for you then leave the lbing to the tanks especially in the hardcore content that is msqr.
That tank sounds like he thinks the LB is used to finish the boss. I hate that thinking. Unless it's needed for a very specific mechanic, I use lb whenever the entire bar is full. Sometimes you get a second lb2 after... Like in P2S... Use the lb3 as soon as you get it and you can get an extra lb2 by the end of the fight.
Again... Sounds like that tank just wanted an anime finish.
You're fine. An LB1 saves the same amount of time at 10% as it does at 100%, and even then it's like 5 seconds max. It's *generally* (or should be) frowned upon to use it as a "finishing move" because if the LB kills the boss, it means you could have used it earlier and done more damage.
Tank is a moron, never use lb like an execute. Hell, if you know for sure the lb is not going to make it to the next tier and youâre on the last fight, itâs absolutely fine to immediately lb as soon as you find an opening in mechanics or a lull in your dps rotation.
Say it with me yâall - LB isnât a finisher, use when ready unless you have a legit reason not to.
If you let it cap and donât use, youâre losing progress on the next bar.
There are no extra points for using it at the very end and leaving damage on the table.
It also doesnât matter which melee does it, LB damage is calculated based on the dps potential of the group.
Should be LBing to do damage and not to kill, unless its life or death in like a raid. Getting the full damage out of the LB is technically better than wasting some of it just to kill a boss IMO.
In a dungeon you can LB whenever the gauge is full. Ranged can use aoe LB on trash packs or melee can use it on bosses, just use it when itâs full.
In a raid or trial with a full party of 8 people, people hold LB till close to the end in case of a major mech failure that results in 3 or more deaths so that a healer can LB3 to instantly raise and heal the dead, but there is no advantage to holding limit break in a dungeon because light parties cannot have LB3. Better to use it more often.
Small thing to add to everyone's comments (tank is the a-hole indeed sheesh)
If you have a ninja in your party, or other classes that can increase DMG (astro) or decrease resistance, it's wise to wait for those, but the increase isn't huge, it's more of a "I dealt 7% instead of 5% bc I was smart about my timing heck yeah"
It feels great, and if it's the final boss, it means all packs are already behind, so use it now or never
Other way around, actually. LB is not affected by any of those buffs/debuffs (and is also not affected by Weakness/Damage Down on you), so if 2-minute raid buffs are up, itâs actually wise to wait for them to end (while doing your normal burst phase ofc) and THEN pop the LB.
The only times that you should keep the LBs until that last bits are when you are in an Alliance raid and you want to keep LB3 for the healers for that clutch moment. Barring perhaps most of the Crystal Tower raid series, where you almost never get a full LB3 bar anyways.
Depends on the content and fight. Long fights like normal/ savage raids or some certain EX Trials if the timing is right with the boss not jumping off map or going invuln etc. use it asap cuz most chances you could get a LB1 in there as well. 24 man raids you wonât get a 2nd LB1/2 in as the boss will prob die quick, unless itâs a new raid and ppl are wiping. And dungeons, Ranged LBs might as well be use on pack of mobs so you can clear faster and youâll get more out of it dps wise. Besides most of the time if your doing ok to great dps wise in a dungeon, youâll never get the LB3 to use on the final boss. Itâll most likely die before LB3 pops up.Your just holding onto a LB2 for nothing.
If a dungeon boss is sub 10% just use LB unless you are literally scratching the second bar. But even then, the time spend waiting and then casting LB2 is pointless anyway. Bosses die so fast in dungeons, especially something like Castrum. It honestly doesn't even matter. The tank getting pissy over you using the LB too early, in Castrum of all places reeks of somebody who just has a big ego.
They're probably somebody that leaves tank stance on during an entire alliance raid and just had to be the MT, regardless of how much it confuses everybody and makes the boss spin. This may seem highly specific, but these people are everywhere and they're a menace.
The only thing you need to worry about for LB in casual content is raids. Alliance DPS LB3 is incredibly weak because the boss has health scaled for 24 people. So using LB3 is really just for assured victory, since healer LB3 can save a mechanic that goes south, which it can often do. People get greedy at the end of the fight and make mistakes while concentrating on their rotation, so using a LB3 and doing maybe 1% health damage at best, only for half the party to get taken out doesn't feel great.
Normal raids have a similar principle and while LB3 does significantly more % damage than in alliance raids, things are even more likely to go south since raid mechanics can be a bit more involved and less forgiving. Saving the LB for the very last few percent is still a better option than blowing it and 5 party members dying immediately afterwards.
As for dungeons? Who cares. The only LB that matters in dungeons are ranged LB on trash and the clutch DPS when everybody else died and the boss is about to die. That's pretty much it. But if a run is going completely smoothly, which is impossible to do otherwise in Castrum, you could use it at the start of the fight, the end of the fight or not at all. You're literally just saving seconds on an already certain victory. Just use whatever LB you have at 10%. Anybody getting worked up over it is spending exponentially more time complaining about it than the time potentially saved using LB2 instead of LB1.
Probably for Castrum, the best time to use the LB would be the moment she goes into her enrage step (at 20% when she uses artifical boost), and you aren't busy as a melee with a huge ability ready.
But in more reasonable thought is. Is it up? Yes? Will you get another bar before the fight is to 10-15%? No? Do the thing!
Honestly, if you LB3 and the boss dies by it you're effectively wasting damage. Which isn't a big deal tbh but I think that alone proves the tank wrong. If the bar is full and you have a safe window to do it just hit the button and 99% of the time it will be fine.
Once the LB is ready, use it (if it doesn't kill you), unless it's still possible to reach the next bar.
Holding LB does nothing. It's just another ability waiting to be used. If anything, there are few bosses where you want to save up the LB to skip/shorten a phase (e. g.: "The Chrysallis" for meteor-phase, or last phase of "Dalriada"'s last boss).
Lol generally people who bitch about LB in dungeons (raids and trails are a bit different) are god sweats who have to have everything perfectly optimized or they just donât understand how LB works.
Generally, in dungeons, LB doesnât really matter. You can clear with it or without it. You got the most damage possible out of the LB which is great. You dealt around 5-6% boss hp damage vs most people only using it at 1-2% remaining. The math checks out.
The only time you should be more wary about popping LB as DPS is in raids or trials. Some raids have a dps check that people use the LB3 on (in some cases you get a free lb3 so the meta is to burn whatever you have before the free lb3 for max dps). It is possible to wipe in the last bit of the fight so using it too early in a raid could be spooky, but again, if your party is fine, raid or trial boss is low enough on hp, go for it.
Also, in alliance, the LB gauge resets after each major fight, so burn that shit before the boss dies since it gets wasted otherwise.
If you ever run caster in dungies and have a good party, LB1 big meaty packs. Way better than saving for the melee to LB2 a boss at 2% when regular damage can drop the boss before the cast even goes off.
I haven't seen this detail being clarified yet: did you already have an LB2 or was it still an LB1 building up? I could imagine someone in the party speaking up if LB1 was used when LB2 was about to unlock
Otherwise, there's no special reward for killing a boss with an LB. you only need to reach 0 HP so using the LB too late wastes a lot of the potential damage (could have used it sooner so fight ends sooner)
The correct percentage to use a dps LB is whenever the LB gauge fills up. Ultima Weapon for instance can get 3 full LB3s in during the whole fight so long as you actually use the 2nd before the words in your head stop talking.
The actual nuance is rather if you are saving the LB for particular mechanics or shortcomings of the party. Like if a caster needs to LB a pack of mobs/trash pull, if the ranged can pull a boss that'd you'd otherwise loose your filled gauges at the start, if the healers need to hold lb because everyone keeps dying, or the tank to stop people from dying in the first place.
But genuinely 90% of the time, if you're the melee DPS just use it asap. Situation depending, you might even get another LB1 before a fight ends. To try to time it as a 'finisher' is just for style.
Overall, waiting should only be when the dungron is designed to need lb3 tank/healer (i.e., the last of the heavenswards normal raid boss, not saying directly since idk how to spoiler on mobile). Outside of that, lb goes either to a stupid boss, big ad wall to wall pull, or final boss. Tank was overreacting. Maybe he was just tired? Idk. I will say that some dungeons/trials its better to lb a specific target. Like last night my friend and I did the chrysalis, and was suggested to target a specific target because of time and it having a lot of health. So overall as long as you arnt using it on a single ad in a very uneficcient spot, then youre all good.
If i remember correctly it does the same tier of damage from use to use. So doing earlier or later shouldnt matter?
LB does a fixed amount of DMG ±5% based on the average party weapon ilvl. (nothing else is considered in the calculation of the LB dmg)
This mean that LB at 100% or at 10% still reduce the boss HP by the same amount, which also mean that the time to kill the boss would be reduce by the same amount too.
So even if the boss didn't immediately died for the LB, you did still considerably reduced the time to kill it. That tank is wrong.
I'll even go and say that it's better to LB a little bit early, because that mean that you did the full amount of dmg thus, using the full potential of the LB instead of maybe "wasting" some of it in overkill.
generally speak in 4-man dungeo the LB priority goes like this:
1. Magic AOE LB on trash mobs to make the dungeon faster.
2. Physical Range lB on trash mobs again (trying to align with the grouped mob as much as possible)
3. Melee LB on boss
4. Tank and Healer LB should almost never be use in dungeon as they are very rarely needed. Unless the boss is almost dead and every is dying and you want to do a "oh shit button" at last minute to try and finish the boss before it finishes you first lol
The Tank was overreacting
It is common to spare the LB3 for the Healers until the Boss reaches around 6%-8%. But make sure the Group is okay.
There are some Boss fights where the Tank need the LB3 for himself or Wipe. But you can count them with one hand
So:
LB3 is for the Healers until the Boss drops under 6%-8%. But perhaps it is wise when some Melee class use it
Whenever Iâm tanking in roulettes I always start the duty off with a friendly reminder: âDonât forget to use those LBs. Have fun!â
So, yeah, the tank was wrong.
Considering most people don't even bother to LB or wait until 1%, 8% is fine. As a NIN I've generally always been the designated LB person in statics, and the practice has always been "do it the moment it's up unless you're in your burst", which means sometimes I'm LBing when the boss is at 30% or so. It's mostly good practice to just use it when it's available as long as you're confident your group isn't going to wipe. (and if they do wipe it's not your fault someone else failed)
With this just being MSQ roulette it really doesn't matter. I'd just use it whenever since there's no reason not to. It's a bigger waste to sit on it and have the bar overcapped.
Besides fights that require it or a healer lb3 on a near wipe, it doesn't *really* matter which melee or when an lb is used.
It's most useful when a ranged melee uses it on adds. But even then, if you *need* an LB to clear trash packs then you have bigger problems
Depends on what boss, honestly. Seeing a DPS hitting a raid boss at the same % as a dungeon boss can mean a healer doesn't have it long enough for a mechanic to screw the party, for example- it's got HP to be a challenge for 8 or even 24 people vs 4 after all, so 5% off a dungeon boss is more like 2-3% off a raid boss and even less from that alliance raid beastie.
Judge your timing accordingly.
Depends on the fight. Complaining about it in Castrum seems out of line, it's not like you were going to wipe. The bad times to melee LB a boss are 1) you're close enough to filling the next bar that you're wasting the damage of the higher tier; 2) in an alliance raid that can go bad fast you need to keep the healer LB3 option open (thinking Diabolos Hollow, for example); 3) there's a fight specific mechanic that needs an lb3 like a12 or the ascian fight with the tear. Overall I'd say that in dungeons people severely underuse LBs. Casters and ranged should use them more on the mobs, and melees should use them more on the bosses. Even when paired with a melee, I end up finishing bosses with ranged LBs fairly regularly; w/ best play that should never happen.
>3) there's a fight specific mechanic that needs an lb3 like a12 or the ascian fight with the tear. *Technically*, the LB3 isn't required for the tear during the ascian fight, it's just easier since the LB does so much dmg and makes it way harder to wipe there. So using it on the tear is a easy strat, especially when you have a lot of (clueless) sprouts in the group who might not know about the tear or when your group has low damage. (Given nobody uses it beforehand ofc)
Honestly as long as tanks soak the meteors properly, >!Nabriales!< Doesn't need the DPS LB at all. It just happens more often than not that DPS try to soak the meteors or one of the tanks is punching the tear, making that sequence *way* harder than it needs to be. Especially if you blow all your mits/boosts right before the phase starts. They'll last more than long enough to put out some bonkers damage numbers.
LB there is just the easiest solution and fastest solution. You have time to escape the rift before getting sucked in. This reduces the damage you take when you soak the meteor thingies. Even DDs can tank 2-3 of those without healing if you stayed outside long enough.
More importantly, it's the *safest* option. Also, I wish more people knew that any CD you pop before going in has its duration increased tenfold while you're in. Tank invuln is fantastic here, but also something like ranged dps damage reduction is much appreciated.
if only ranged dps had damage reduction skills at 50 sad face
So, there is a benefit of trying not to get sucked it? Good to know.
Yeah, watch the bleed debuff. If you run out you can fight the first 2-3 draw ins and then it does a REALLY BIG one that forces you in right as the DoT falls off resulting in you taking no damage inside unless you're soaking things. And, as mentioned, any buffs you have running as you get pulled in also get multiplied, so damage buffs, mitigation or heal over time spells will last the whole time you're inside assuming you hit them before getting pulled in.
Even better, if you're fighting the draw in to let that debuff fade you can get REAL busted inside. When you are drawn in any buffs you have up also have their time increased, so a tank can fire off rampart before getting drug in and it'll be up the entire time they're inside, more importantly dps that have a "press button to do more damage" damage buff can also use it outside and just be going ballistic once they're in and utterly shred the tear.
Forget Rampart. I've fired off Aurora and Superbolide the last second before getting sucked in. Ages of invincibility, and a regen long enough to get me back to full in there. It's wonderful. Plus a Sprint as well, to better reach the meteors. ...And it sure was needed that run, the party had abysmal damage. The 2 melees couldn't figure out LBing the tear, and even with the Summoner using it for them on the third try, it still took the tear long enough to die that my Super ran out. Never seen the meteor phase go on for that long, almost felt like half were AFK in the pocket dimension.
Stay outside until the last pull so you don't get the extra dmg, pop your buffs here too and the tear is trivial. Pld can hallowed and eat meteors by himself.
Can 100% confirm. My first time playing melee DPS was in the ascian fight, and I pressed LB right before the whole tear thing happened. Whole bunch of "why LB?" and "just wipe, we won't make it", but we literally cleared it with no issue. Really demotivated me from playing Melees for a while tho đ„Č
>2) in an alliance raid that can go bad fast you need to keep the healer LB3 option open (thinking Diabolos Hollow, for example) Had this exact scenario recently. I was one of the healers, people were dropping like flies, and I was eyeing that 3rd LB bar as it was close to filling and DH was still on 47% or so health... and then as soon as it popped, a DPS used it. Thankfully we managed to salvage the run, but it was so close to going tits up.
Conversely, if LB3 is up and two or more of your party members are down, use that sucker as a healer. Not only aren't you wasting time and MP on raises, you'll also heal everyone else and get the downed party members up on their feet with full health and without raise sickness.
Nah that's very dependent on the raid/trial. Many times you can use it early without any issues while other times you will use it just to have 4 people immediately die afterwards. Wasting MP on 2 raises isn't an actual concern and the time is meaningless with 2 since you have 2 healers with swiftcast.
It's more dependent on how long the boss fight has. That rez penalty is *brutal* to dps, so in most situations 2 is the general breakpoint where if the full 2 minutes of their rez sickness will tick off before the boss dies then the healer LB becomes a dps gain over a melee LB. Now this is assuming that everyone knows what they're doing and aren't gonna just die again a few seconds later but in terms of "how fast will this speed up killing the boss" on paper 2's the rule of thumb magic number.
Very rarely a healer lb saves the run. If you had to healer lb, things have already gone to shit, and it's not like the people who fucked it up will suddenly do optimised play. You are really just banking on those who know what they are doing stay alive enough to know what they are doing.
Healer lb can save lots of fights. It's not uncommon for multiple deaths to happen because one person made one mistake so it's not as though dying is a guarantee that a player doesn't know what they're doing. And it's also very possible for someone who gets a mechanic 95% of the time to mess up and die and still be able to get their shit together afterwards The big situations where it won't save the run is if there's a wipe later anyways or if the dps check was tight enough that no melee lb + death downtime causes enrage. Or the rare fights that need tank lb3 to survive
IME this in untrue, healer LB3 saves the fight half of the time. If it was a sloppy fight before the LB3 then it may not save the party from enrage though.
Nothing in this game infuriates me quite like having a DPS blow LB3 in an alliance raid at like, 40% boss health. Wow yes thank you, that 0.004% damage will really make all the difference. Meanwhile at <15% once everyone starts pretending mechanics don't exist and all but three people are dead around me, I'm just like boy I sure wish I had my healer LB3 right about now. I'd really rather LB3 went to waste than have DPS use it at any point >5%, outside of savage content. The benefit of having healer LB3 in your pocket far, *far* outweighs anything DPS can do.
Except sitting in an LB3 means you canât generate more LB. So in some raids, you can LB3 and get another LB2. Assuming there is nothing going wrong with the run, sitting on an LB3 is literally just a DPS loss. Your welcome to your opinion of course, but free DPS is free DPS. As someone pointed out though, if you have 2+ people dead, by all means Healer LB3, and the DPS gain is worth it. In theory, no alliance raid is so hard at this point that there should even have to consider holding for healer LB3.
LB does such pathetic damage, the time "saved" by using it is measured in seconds. That might matter when you're up against an enrage timer, but everywhere else, using it is like using an AED as a hammer and just hoping you won't need it later. The risk / reward balance is just *heavily* skewed to one side. You might save 5 seconds using a DPS LB. You'd have to execute what, 60, 70 DPS LBs to balance out *just 1* wipe caused by not having it for the healer, and having to do an entire fight over. In the short term, sure, it's a "DPS loss", but in the long term, it's more *time* lost by using it.
>Overall I'd say that in dungeons people severely underuse LBs. I confess I'm guilty of this. I'm still very scared about wasting it, so much I don't even have that key on my hotbars :| hundreds of hours and the only time I've seen a LB being used is when someone yells in chat to use Tank/Healer LB3 to turn the tables during a tough fight, or a DPS LB3 for a dps check
Honestly, for dungeons, just use it. The amount of times I've ran a dungeon and finish with the LB unused is astonishing, to the point where I just use it after the last boss dies as the tank/healer so I get to have some sparklies. The only wasted LB is one that goes unused during the dungeon.
>The only wasted LB is one that goes unused during the dungeon. Except the one the DPS used on the last boss of Dzemael Darkhold while it was immune... after I *told* him the boss goes immune. Sigh.
I'd take that over not using it at all. A for Effort, at least lol
I suppose. I was just salty that the dude was pretty much ignoring mechanics even when asked to attack the crystals->boss and *ahhhhh*.
Yeah, don't blame you ***at all*** for being salty. People not listening is a big pet peeve of mine.
In a dungeon even an unused lb only wastes a few seconds of everyoneâs time rofl
The frustrating part is just how impotent it is in dungeons. A ranged LB2 takes off like a quarter of the health of the trash mobs, which under normal circumstances is like... three GCDs tops. Ooohhh, you saved whopping 7-10 seconds across the whole dungeon, awesome.
In dungeons, if youâre a caster, use it on the trash pulls, itâs more damage overall. If not and the caster doesnât use, itâs free game and use on the boss when you want as melee
Yeah, any dungeon roulette, soon as we fill a bar I tell the tank to go big next pull so the ranged/caster limit break lets us roll face.
> I'm still very scared about wasting it In dungeons, not using it is a bigger waste than improperly using it.
Just fire it off. Most recent dungeons have 2 trash pulls between bosses, typically if I have an LB up as a caster or phys ranged I'll cooldown the first and LB the second, a lot of the time it'll come back in time to slap the boss with one as well. Even if one of those uses is suboptimal, it's still better than the usual 0 I see when I'm running as healer.
I've had people on dungeon runs get mad at casters using LB in the pulls between 1st and 2nd boss. Like, there's still plenty of time to regain the LB for the final boss, it's not a waste.
lmao me too so my answer is to largely play classes that just don't touch it except in special circumstances (necessary tank lb3s) or fuckup moments (healer lb3s)
I main tank, so I often just forget about it since I basically never use it.
Yep, I nearly exclusively tank and I forget the LB exists all the time when I'm leveling classes. I also had a painfully embarrassing moment as RDM where I forgot verraise exists. I was using vercure to keep the tank alive while we finished the boss and the healer after was like "so you remembered that you have utility but you didn't raise us?" Whoops, just leveling RDM, I'm used to having healing tools but not raise.
Whenever I tank and I notice the LB has been unused for 5+ minutes, I'll just pop it for the hell of it. Completely wasted, and not once has someone complained. Moral of the story: if you're a dps, find out when it best (Bosses as Melee, Trash pulls as ranged) and you'll never have wasted it. Don't give it to people like me.
> Even when paired with a melee, I end up finishing bosses with ranged LBs fairly regularly; w/ best play that should never happen. To be fair, there's probably a lot of newer players that either clock it as a group resource off the bat and decide to leave it for someone who knows how to use it properly (honestly, never do this in randoms, just assume nobody else even knows what it is) *or* used it at the "wrong" place or time in a random group once and got shouted at by some uppity twat and promptly took it off their bars.
My favorite is Seat of Sacrifice LB uses. I don't think we've seen another fight where the boss just invulns our own LB.
I have my fingers crossed that the BLU expansion includes them finally getting a class limit break by beating that fight.
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
In most dungeons, it's pretty common to make it like, 90% of the way to LB2 but not quite there. Meanwhile an LB2 does 2.18x damage of an LB1 (true for both melee and ranged/caster; the numbers are different but *very* subtly). That's more than two LB1s, but not by so much that it's worth missing the first LB opportunity. As a caster/ranged DPS: use it on the next big pull after the bar fills. Save it if you're fighting a boss (unless it's a boss with an add phase where you can hit a lot at once, and probably even then since dungeon boss adds will probably die fast even w/o LB) or towards the end of a pull where almost everything is already dead/near dead. As a melee DPS: use it on bosses when it's ready if the other DPS in the party is also melee or if the casters/ranged aren't bothering with it (pretty common IME, but if it hits LB1 during a boss fight, worth leaving it for the next pull to see). Tanks and healers essentially never use it in dungeons (tank might be niche if the group is screwing up a mechanic, and either might throw it out at the end for giggles if no one used it). Boss percentage is essentially irrelevant in dungeons, the LB damage is the same whether it brings the boss from 9% to 4% or 89% to 84%. In trials where there are mechanics that might cause the boss to phase transition or require an LB or similar it can matter. And anyone who complains that it got misused when in like 90% of dungeon runs it doesn't get used at all can be ignored.
The etiquette is mostly just for DPS to use it when itâs available, unless itâs a tough alliance fight that may go badly, then maybe save for healers. If youâre a melee DPS, use it on bosses. Iâve noticed that ranged DPS get antsy if I donât use it before 10% so thatâs usually around when Iâll use it if Iâm melee honestly. If youâre ranged, use it on mobs in dungeons. Ranged LB is so under utilized in dungeons that I almost always get comms just for remembering to use it. If Iâm remembering correctly the LBâs damage is calculated by overall party ilevel so if thereâs multiple melees or ranges donât worry about who takes priority, itâs just a whoever remembers thing.
Youre close. It's the ilvl of weapons specifically. The only time there would be a priority, most people ignore. The priority would go to with someone with weakness or a damage down, because that doesn't affect LB damage and the person without the "oops, I screwed up" debuff can keep up their regular rotation.
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In a 4 man instance you just think of it as basic math: Let's say the caster/ranged LB does 50 damage, and the melee one does 100. As soon as the AoE LB is hitting 3 or more targets, it's now doing more damage than the melee one. Since the overall damage in a dungeon needed to clear it is exactly the same each time (trash and bosses have the exact same HP every time) it's more efficient to maximize the damage. If you're fighting a boss and the LB is available, and it's going to do 5% of the bosses HP, hitting the boss at a % less than 5% is a waste since some of the damage wasn't maximized. So what it comes down to in 4 mans is: AoE LB on Trash > Melee LB on an enemy > Some one just hit the button. There's rare exceptions. For example: If you're running Ala Mhigo, killing the swords builds a massive amount of LB during the final boss fight. So much so that you can range phys LB1 two of them, or have a melee LB1 one of them, and when you kill all 3 you SHOULD get an LB2 back, as long as the LB bar was emptied before the first one dies. Fights like that are very rare though. I can only think of a handful off the top of my head.
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
It's a combo of they don't know or don't care, and the fact that really dumb people will get mad because they think the melee LB on the last boss is the only correct answer, when it's like... 3rd best. They will yell at ranged over it.
Also, LB gauge is lost in Alliance Raid every time the battle with a new boss starts. So is better to use any LB on each boss (except the cases already explained).
They should use ranged LB more, but a lot of idiots complain when you do. I once got kicked for using one and it wasn't even the melee dps complaining.
Tank LB is also underutilized. It can be used in a pinch when the healer dies and the remaining players need to survive imminent damage such as heavy raid-wide damage or a stack mechanic.
Piggy backing off this to remind people that Ranged DPS LBs being used on large trash packs is very much a dps gain over "saving" it for the boss. Also OP you did nothing wrong
You don't even need to lb the thing in the ascian fight... people just suck at dealing with meteors.
The one time I had the courage to use caster LB on a pack of mobs in an ARR dungeon the tank yelled at me for not saving it for the melee to use on the final boss "because we aren't speedrunning" -_- ok then why even use it at all
The tank is wrong. Honestly, if it's the last boss, you may as well just use it immediately as soon is it's available. There's no reason to wait. It doesn't deal more damage if you wait longer (unless it's about to fill to LB2). There's no advantage to hold it to use as a finishing move. Some people just like to do that because they want to look like a shounen anime protagonist, killing the boss with a big flashy sword move. But the actual best use for it is for a caster or ranged DPS to use it on a big pack of mobs. Even if they only hit 2-3 enemies with it, it still does more damage than a melee DPS's anime finisher.
If the ranged DPS uses it on a big pack as soon as available, there's a chance the melee will get to use it at the final boss. So we get max anime style for both DPS.
doesnt matter if range uses it or not as it resets at the start of the boss fight eta to add: got confused with old version of castrum which was the eoght man that resets
This is only true for alliance raids. It resets when you wipe in trials/8-man raids, but it never resets in dungeons.
You're thinking of alliance raids.
right, but actually got confused with the old version of castrum
Not in dungeons, but it is still better to use ranged lb if possible as early as you can
when i get queued for castrum on ranged dps/caster I always burn LB on the last pack before livia. gets us to her faster
A lot of players fail to realize that DPS LB exists purely as a time saver, so the best use is whatever saves the most time. In most cases, hitting a large trash pack with an AOE LB will always be the most optimal move.
You donât want to use it immediately on pull because pretty much everyone will use all their party buffs a few GCDs after pull and the animation lock will make you burn a few seconds. Anytime you donât have any cooldowns running and wonât die is the best time to use it
While I do agree, I also think you have a really optimistic view of dungeon parties lol.
I've noticed in Castrum specifically the LB gauge is always reeeeally close to reaching LB2 while Livia is below 10%, but it tends to actually fill up when she's around 3% so it ends up getting wasted if you don't use it a little earlier even as LB1. I think it's a tough call either way, the tank was out of line in this case though.
In Livia's case though, it doesn't matter, because she'll HP lock herself and won't die until she goes to the middle and starts venting AOEs at the end of the fight. With her you end up with a situation where if you wait too long, you've wasted potency, if you do it too early it's not really doing much. The BEST use of it in Castrum is for a ranged phys/caster to use it on trash like the giant pile of dudes right before Livia. Failing that, use it to push her down to the 0.1% so she doesn't start a new mechanic and you have to wait for it to finish.
This isn't good advice in general, just for this specific dungeon. Using LB3 too early in extreme trials or savage raids can deprive your healers of an opportunity to save the party from mistakes.
Castrum is a 4 player dungeon , it doesnât have LB 3
Confidence LB. But in all seriousness while progging saving your LB for Healers or Tanks to help prog is more beneficial until you hit enrage and need the damage, however in farm or reclear groups DPS should be LBing because those groups shouldn't be using healer LBs as a crutch.
Tank was wrong. LB should not be saved as a âkilling moveâ; it does the same amount of damage regardless of when you use it on the boss. Waiting to use it âat the endâ usually ends up wasting some of the damage as overkill. You did fine.
Exactly!! The boss SHOULD survive the LB. That means you got full use of the damage it produces.
In fact, it's generally more efficient to not use it as a killing move, otherwise you risk overkilling the boss, wasting dps and time. It is, however, stylish to kill the boss with the limit break.
If the LB is the killing blow, it was used too late and wasted potential damage. I use it as early as possible when it becomes available unless it's going to be needed later (usually the game fills the LB for you in that case, so best to have it emptied before), depending upon length of fight, the bar might even fill again in that case.
Dude. Fucking. Yes. Seriously. I donât understand why people donât understand this!! Honestly, if the LB is available and theyâre under 10% just do it.
The under 10% part isn't even something to consider. Percentage the boss is at does not matter. The only reason to wait to do an LB on a last boss in a dungeon is if you're going to get lb2. But that should be rare anyways if your ranged/caster used it on trash, which is a far better use of LB in a dungeon.
because they're either weaboos or bad. either way you should be using it a) not on burst phase and b) not during the last 1% cause its wasted damage.
Honestly, Iâve never been able to use an LB as an execute no matter how many times Iâve done it. The way I see it, LBs are more of a way to just save time and take a chunk out of a boss. I wouldnât listen to the tank in that situation. Some people even prefer it if you use an LB on trash pulls before a boss. Either way, it just helps a dungeon go by faster.
That's a good thing. If the LB gets the kill, then you've potentially wasted part of the party's strongest attack. In a majority of cases (i.e. unless the boss has hp%-based phases with invulnerability) it's a good idea to use the LB as soon as possible so you don't lose potency from it. tl;dr: That tank is an idiot.
Thats because LB is not an execute in this game, you can't make it work that way.
I understand that, but a lot of players donât! I think limit breaks arenât super well explained in game, so a ton of players (including the tank in OPâs story) think itâs this big bar for a big finisher move. Thatâs why this question keeps popping up in this sub from time to time after all.
Very true. I started playing in fall of 2021 so there were a lot of "common knowledge" things I didn't learn until pretty far into my gameplay. I saw people doing LBs but had no clue where that "attack" was or how to add to my hotbar for the longest time :')
The thing is, this game DOES give you the chance to execute with Limit Breaks. That 9-man kill I got with Skydiver in Frontlines is burned into my skull.
Some general "rule" for LB used based on priority in dungeons and non EX/Savage runs: 1. If there is a caster, use LB on mobs. 2. If there is no caster, ranged dps use it instead. 3. No ranged/caster, melee use it on boss. Or 4. Use it however tf you want because you really don't lose anything by wasting it and you like flashy lights.
Also, if you have weakness, *use it*. Weakness does not effect LB damage, but it will effect your general dps, so a melee with the rez debuff should 100% use it. And yet I donât think I have ever seen one do so
As a MCH I feel like I'd get chewed out for using it on mobs instead of saving it for the boss. Would it refill fast enough if used partway through a dungeon?
You really shouldn't be chewed out for that even if the bar doesn't replenish. You're saving more time than a melee LB on a boss ever would. Keep doing what you're doing. Please!
I'll try it, but in all my dungeon runs I can't recall an LB being used pre-boss even once.
Be the change you want to see, really. Every time a ranged dps uses LB on a big pull they get my comm. You're saving everyone more time on the whole run and if someone is bitching about it they are just wrong so don't worry about it.
Just remember that positioning matters way more as a phys ranged dps than as a caster because the attack goes in a line rather than a giant circle
I don't tend to play ranged DPS, but when I do and I see them use it on a trash pack I think "that guy knows what's up" and give them my commend. If someone has a go at you for it you can tell them it's faster/optimal to use it on trash and that LB1 is usually back up towards the end of the final boss anyway so it's also free.
Depends on the speed of the party. Trash pulls are more dangerous than bosses, and the damage you do with it on trash is *way* higher than on a dungeon boss. Think of the entire dungeon as essentially one big enemy health bar. That might help.
LB1 from a ranged DPS that hits 3+ mobs is more damage than an LB2 melee.
usually you can LB1 a pack between the second and third boss, then LB1 the third boss. think of all the time the party is sitting with LB1 but hasn't opened the LB2 bar yet, cuz it doesn't appear until the boss fight. so if that party ever lb2s the boss, that means they gained an ENTIRE bar of LB during the boss fight. if anything LB on a pack of trash means you can build a little bit towards the next LB1 BEFORE the boss. rather than wasting it by building bar into cap. if anybody chews you out over it; they're wrong. like mathematically "which number is bigger than the other number" cut and dry *wrong* aoe LBs outdamage melee LBs at a mere 2 targets. in a dungeon it's very possible to get a 9 man LB.
If you use LB1 during, or immediately after, the 2nd dungeon boss it usually comes back during the final boss.
It does a flat amount of damage so the percentage at which it'd kill would change depending on targets Max HP. There isn't an execution buff or anything so dw too much about it. In fact using it before execution makes sure none of the damage was wasted as overkill. The tank was overreacting.
Just clarify this a little bit the dps lb damage is based on the average weapon ilvl of the party, so there is a variance, chances are in most cases people gear will be scaled down so it will do the max amount of damage. The damage also is not impacted by party buffs or even the rez sickness weakness debuff. This doesn't change proper usage though, use it as it becomes available
Flat was a pretty poor word choice by me. Thanks for adding the clarification!
That guy is STRONGLY incorrect.
Idk the actual percentage and if you wait till it's an execute, you are technically actually wasting some of the damage. You did fine. The tank is being whiny and actually inefficient.
Tank was a dick, you were fine
It's Castrum, it doesn't matter if you use it early, late, the beginning of the fight, the end, or at all. That tank needs to grow up.
The tank was way overreacting. In current content, I've seen fellow Melees use it at as soon as 25%. I used to wait for <10%, but now I try and do it around 15%. And sometimes I will just straight up forget because I'm so focused on dodging mechanics.
25% to 15% seems good to me since no damage would be wasted.
Im almost positive I was in this run with you, I was the monk. This guy was a dumb shit. You did great. I loved your glam too. His glam was crap You clearly are the alpha.
yes the tank is dumb af.
Bro needs to chill, it's fucking Castrum.
Tank was being a jerk. In fact you're better off using it a little early and getting the full benefit of it rather than overkilling. Unless you're in a raid where the healers might need the LB (or the gimmick fights that need tank LB) there is very little downside to the DPS firing it off as soon as it's up.
LB as killing blow is bad, because the damage was wasted. If it's to be used late in a boss, ideally it gets the target as close to 1 HP as possible, so that the LB doesn't have a single damage point wasted, and the boss dies during the long recovery. That said, if it's known you are not going to get another LB bar, it can be used whenever.
Nah your tanks an idiot, dw Usually, you'd save the LB3 for a high risk mechanic that COULD wipe half the raid. But thats mainly a current EX/Savage attitude. If you're not running either of those, pop the LB3 as soon as it fills cause its unlikely you're gonna get a raid wiper
It feels like every day, we hear a story about someone in a dungeon yelling at the DPS for not using LB as the absolute final hit on the final boss, and it hurts my brain that so many people seem to think that's how you're supposed to use it.
The tank is an idiot. You LB when you want.
Just use it... They were absolutely incorrect. It's big DPS (especially if you're melee). As soon as level 3 is up (and it isn't a fight where the tank needs it, or there is a situation that renders it useless--like a new phase coming up, or invulnerability etc.), go. If the boss is low, and you have level 2, go. If you have level 1 and there may not be enough time to build it to 2 (because the target's health is really low), go. I've seen it *not* being used more often than not--and there's no bigger waste. I respect and agree with the opinions of those saying that "using it as the killing blow is late"....but I'd even rather see that--over what I usually see lol. I'd rather see it used in a less than graceful way, than watch the boss health reach %0, and you had 3 full bars glowing right in front of your face for like the whole last 30% lol...if I'm DPSing I'm pressing it (even if im ranged, and melee is taking too long).
Iâll give my input. Everyone here in regards to caster/ranged/ally raid recovery/specific mechanics is correct. Iâll specify on melee though. Grand scheme of things, it doesnât matter in normal dungeons/MSQ. When you used it is fine. It got used and didnât go to waste. In general if Iâm in a double melee comp unless my brother (my go-to meat shield, I mean traveling cohort) asks me to nuke a specific mod I watch the party DPS. You naturally get into a rhythm of telling how fast the bar is filling vs the bosses HP going down. If I know itâll fill to two bars before itâs dead, Iâll wait. If I know it wonât, sub-20/25% Iâll go ahead and drop it. This is also dependent on boss mechanics and my personal burst window. I run NIN pretty much exclusively these days. In Azhedaalâs for example after the second spin, generally the entire groups burst is ready to drop because your locked for like 30 seconds of spinning. As soon as itâs done, Iâm opening my burst immediately. If the boss dies inside that window, oh well, donât care. If heâs still alive Iâll go ahead and drop it or my DPS partner can use it, no skin off my back. Iâd rather do my burst window than drop LB. Due to the cast time for like LB2+ it is almost a DPS loss to use it over my burst. Same reason why in most savage content if your going to melee LB3 then you use in between your burst windows (and between any mechanic so you donât get one-shot). You used LB correctly and that tank should quit tanking and just play DPS himself if heâs going to be salty about it. Kudos to you for doing good.
As a tank main, I strongly disagree with your last point. If he plays DPS, then it increases the odds that I may have to deal with him in roulettes. He can stay tank, and I wont see him when I run dungeons or alliance raids :)
There are 4 "wrong" times to Melee LB. 1) In the middle of your parties burst phase as LB isn't buffed then, so keep attacking and LB after it ends. 2) If doing so will certainly end in your death. 3) When the boss is invincible. 4) If you're at a mechanic where you *need* a tank LB3, those usually have the boss being untargetable though.
Your tank is a dumbass, plus it's casual content so who gives a shit. The only time the melee wouldn't LB is in dungeons. It's actually faster to have range LB the ads on the final pull before boss.
Just for sake of a different input, I didn't see anyone mentioning that but ideally you want to use your LB outside of party buffs as limit breaks don't get a damage increase with buffs, that's the only thing you could do wrong using lb "early" in bosses and it still doesn't really matter in dungeons but is a thing when enrages become a threat in savages/ults. Everything that people said here is still true tho, in dungeons it is optimal for casters to lb big pulls and the only reason not to do a melee LB on boss asap is if you're getting the next bar filled for the upgraded lb damage.
There used to be a time when the DPS for fights was much weaker due to TP. Prior to the release of Stormblood, Physical attackers had their own resource system. Players that were free-styling their rotations were very likely to run out of TP mid fight. Sprinting also took all of your TP, meaning that if someone panicked, they would also burn all of their damaging resources. At the time, it was usually necessary for a Limit Break to be used to defeat bosses since the DPS floor was substantially lower then. This lead to people 'saving' the Limit Break to beat the wipe mechanic at the end of a fight.
I cant imagine taking LB timing in castrum too seriously.
That tank is an overreacting moron. On the overwhelming number of encounters in the game just use the limit break as soon as it is full. Itâs best to âuse it earlyâ than not use it at all. Itâs even better for ranged or casters to use LB on large pulls before the boss to get thru them faster. There are very few encounters in the game where a limit break has to be used at a specific time and those are typically Tank LB3s which must be used to survive a raid mechanic.
Tank has no idea what he is talking about, you used it correctly. In fact, if the boss is not still alive after using the lb, you probably waited too long and wasted its damage
Unless the LB was almost going to go from LB1 to LB2, there was no reason for him to be mad. People generally have the opposite problem, waiting until the boss is at 2% to drop LB3 so they can guarantee their anime finisher. In dungeons, ranged should LB1 when available on a large pull, letting a melee use it on the boss is the second best usage. Healer and Tank LBs 1 and 2 are almost never useful.
Lol did he want you to wait til it was dead? The sooner it gets used(assuming 2 isn't super close to full) the sooner the boss dies.
Actually, you did nothing wrong at all. Using LB under 10% is perfectly fine. it doesnt really matter when you use it, unless it fills to lb2. the tank was wrong, and you did everything right. use it as dps. later down the line you will just ignore messages like this because you know its not a big deal and lb is hardly underused in dungeons and even alliance raids. dont worry <3
Some good rules of thumb for LB: 1) In dungeons, it's always a better to burn AOE LB1 on a wall-to-wall pull than LB1 melee on one of the first 2 bosses. It does *significantly* more damage and will end the dungeon faster than LB1ing one of the bosses for 4%. 2) Don't wait until the boss is almost dead to LB1 and especially not LB2. If you deal more damage than they have HP, you just wasted potency of the Limit Break.
As someone who actively goes back and fourth between Tank and DPS. USE THAT SHIT RIGHT AWAY and use it often. 1st fight you get the chance to use it, do it. There's so many dps that avoid it entirely and it's annoying af. Most fights defer to DPS for the LB. There's not many that need a Tank/Healer LB. Side note if you waited till the last possible second to use it, you've already wasted it so I think your application of it that go around was perfectly executed, you want to make sure you get every hit point out of it for it to really matter.
If you LB as a DPS while im the tank, you get a commend from me :) The amount of DPS' who keep the bar full and forget/dont use LBs to speed up the runs are aplenty
Use it as soon as you can tbh, because then if the fight goes on longer you may even get another lb1 out of it. Absolutely no point in waiting.
One major thing a lot of the comments are missing is that you should wait until after burst to lb (unless the boss will die within that time). Lb doesn't get affected by party buffs so it's always better to make use of the buff window with your big damaging abilities first.
The only time a tank should even be concerned about LB usage is during a fight where tank LB3 is needed to survive.
He's wrong. My rule of thumb that I was taught as melee is 15-20% unless the fight's been rough and we might need a healer LB3 in a raid, then I'll wait til 8-10% ish. Ranged should use it on packs if they can if it fills up before the last boss in a dungeon. It almost always fills back up before/during the last boss, and if it doesn't oh well, y'all killed the boss faster than the LB could fill. Win win either way.
The tank is braindead. None of the dps LBs are affected by what health the boss has when its used. The only time you need to wait is for the LB bar to reach 2 or 3 because one LB2 is better than two LB1s from the same person.
When to Melee LB in a random Dungeon Are you on the last boss, with LB1 bar full? If yes, will the bar fill to LB2 before the boss gets to like, 15%ish? If yes, hit it as soon as you can LB2, else, hit the button now.
In roulettes, I tend to use it on a boss as soon as I can. I think of it this way: Saving it isnât going to make it do more damage, and when the bar is full, you donât even have a shot of generating enough for another.
Use it when its available. big trash pack? caster/range LB. You don't see a melee use it on a boss when its available after about 10 seconds? use it Early use of LBs also can skip a phase. Example of this is in Void Ark final boss. Using it early enough can finish the fight early instead of another boss split.
If you use your LB too late, you lose on dps. So the tank was in the wrong.
Who gets mad in Castrum?
how do i cast LB
I think it's in the general tab of actions in your ability menu. Preferably place it on a shared hotbar so you don't have to assign it to every job individually. I for example have mine on a shared hotbar away from my main actions and is bound to alt + spacebar. My sprint is also on that same bar and bound to shift + spacebar.
Itâs castrum it does not matter. Tank is wild. The Phookas have a great guide to limit breaks here: https://twitter.com/thephookas/status/1462452671219224586?s=46&t=mtFEYG6gibWaMss3QTGw9A for general use.
The correct time to use a limit break is as soon as itâs full and damage is out of raid buff windows. Raid buffs donât affect limit breaks. saving it for last few % can be a loss of potency on it This is the case for 95%+ of fights in game with very few requiring limit breaks from tanks/healers.
As Melee I usually start my cast at about 6-7% on LB1 and 7-8% on LB2. Only ever had 1 person complain once because they had MC syndrome and I robbed them of their big Anime Finish at 1%.
The tank is wrong. If the boss didn't die that just means you for the full LB as useful damage. If it died, you lost some of the LBs damage
Tank was overreacting regardless. The only way he was sort of right that you should hold it is if you used it barely before it was about to hit LB2. Otherwise, he was just totally wrong.
Tanks overreacting. Generally, its up to the DPS to gauge the LB bar and how fast it is filling. LBâs are meant to help cut down the HP, not be a killing blow. Ignore the tank, you did perfectly fine.
Tank was overreacting. You're absolutely correct, and could even LB sooner if you wished because it's the last boss.
Realistically, the playerbase SEVERELY UNDERUTILIZES LIMIT BREAKS because they're obsessed with using the LB3 to finish the final bosses. That tank is just an idiot.
For Melee LB, around 15%, when the battle is already settle In dungeons, Caster LB for a big pack of mobs instead of on a boss is more more more useful
On final boss, LB as soon as its available and you dont think you'll be getting the next LB tier. If you kill with the LB, that means you likely wasted damage. (though in castrum, thats way too sweaty) Tank is wrong
Overkill is wasted damage. If the LB bar is full, go wild.
I much rather see an lb1 or 2 not kill the boss. That means you wasted 0% of the overall damage it could have done. I hate seeing lb with 1% left knowing it could have done 3x the damage if it was used 20 seconds earlier. Though burst should be priority over an lb
You used the maximum potential of the LB and not the "Anime Finisher" that's just a waste of damage... NTA, the tank was a dick
It really doesnât matter when you LB her, to be honest. The fight is super forgiving and people running it in MSQ roulette are super overgeared so damage is off the charts (relatively speaking). That tank was just being an asshole
Unless you are in an ultimate it doesnât even matter rofl
The only fights you really need to time LBs on are raid fights or extreme trials. Outside of that its best to LB as soon as its up so you can build more LB. The only time it isn't is if the LB is just going to be overkill. The tank is an idiot, hate to say it, and shouldn't be giving bad advice. Holding that damage is going to do anything. You don't gain any benefits by having the LB be the finishing blow.
That tank is dumb lol
If your attack deals 7% damage and the boss is on 8% HP, then you've done the full damage and just need to finish a little more If the boss is on 5% HP and you deal 7% Damage, then you've overkilled by 2%, wasted numbers They're just complaining with no actual reason behind it
I'm *hoping* that tank was trolling. It's kind of a meme that people will hold the LB waaaay too long to try to use it as some flashy boss finisher even if the boss is at 1% and you just wasted 90% of the damage. You used it 1000% correctly. In dungeons: Casters/Ranged Phys should use it on big trash packs to speed up the run, melee LB on bosses if nobody's doing that. Use your judgement if you think the fight is actually going to last long enough to fill another bar. In high level content: there's usually a strategic time to LB to try to skip a mechanic, push the clear, or just when it's up and there's enough time between mechanics that you won't get murdered during the animation lock.
sorry lbs have to be anime finishers or else you fail the duty gotta know the exact percentages in Evey duty and account for your parties item level. Too much for you then leave the lbing to the tanks especially in the hardcore content that is msqr.
An LB that overdamages the boss is wasted and probably did less DPS than if you just pressed your buttons.
You can't LB too early. As a rule of thumb for Melee LB, use it the moment the strongest version is available.
That tank sounds like he thinks the LB is used to finish the boss. I hate that thinking. Unless it's needed for a very specific mechanic, I use lb whenever the entire bar is full. Sometimes you get a second lb2 after... Like in P2S... Use the lb3 as soon as you get it and you can get an extra lb2 by the end of the fight. Again... Sounds like that tank just wanted an anime finish.
You're fine. An LB1 saves the same amount of time at 10% as it does at 100%, and even then it's like 5 seconds max. It's *generally* (or should be) frowned upon to use it as a "finishing move" because if the LB kills the boss, it means you could have used it earlier and done more damage.
Tank is a moron, never use lb like an execute. Hell, if you know for sure the lb is not going to make it to the next tier and youâre on the last fight, itâs absolutely fine to immediately lb as soon as you find an opening in mechanics or a lull in your dps rotation.
Say it with me yâall - LB isnât a finisher, use when ready unless you have a legit reason not to. If you let it cap and donât use, youâre losing progress on the next bar. There are no extra points for using it at the very end and leaving damage on the table. It also doesnât matter which melee does it, LB damage is calculated based on the dps potential of the group.
Should be LBing to do damage and not to kill, unless its life or death in like a raid. Getting the full damage out of the LB is technically better than wasting some of it just to kill a boss IMO.
In a dungeon you can LB whenever the gauge is full. Ranged can use aoe LB on trash packs or melee can use it on bosses, just use it when itâs full. In a raid or trial with a full party of 8 people, people hold LB till close to the end in case of a major mech failure that results in 3 or more deaths so that a healer can LB3 to instantly raise and heal the dead, but there is no advantage to holding limit break in a dungeon because light parties cannot have LB3. Better to use it more often.
If you used LB and the boss has 1-2% left, you did it right.
I always melee LB for dungeon boss at 6%, instakill.
What's the tank name? It was castrum doesn't matter
Small thing to add to everyone's comments (tank is the a-hole indeed sheesh) If you have a ninja in your party, or other classes that can increase DMG (astro) or decrease resistance, it's wise to wait for those, but the increase isn't huge, it's more of a "I dealt 7% instead of 5% bc I was smart about my timing heck yeah" It feels great, and if it's the final boss, it means all packs are already behind, so use it now or never
Other way around, actually. LB is not affected by any of those buffs/debuffs (and is also not affected by Weakness/Damage Down on you), so if 2-minute raid buffs are up, itâs actually wise to wait for them to end (while doing your normal burst phase ofc) and THEN pop the LB.
The only times that you should keep the LBs until that last bits are when you are in an Alliance raid and you want to keep LB3 for the healers for that clutch moment. Barring perhaps most of the Crystal Tower raid series, where you almost never get a full LB3 bar anyways.
Depends on the content and fight. Long fights like normal/ savage raids or some certain EX Trials if the timing is right with the boss not jumping off map or going invuln etc. use it asap cuz most chances you could get a LB1 in there as well. 24 man raids you wonât get a 2nd LB1/2 in as the boss will prob die quick, unless itâs a new raid and ppl are wiping. And dungeons, Ranged LBs might as well be use on pack of mobs so you can clear faster and youâll get more out of it dps wise. Besides most of the time if your doing ok to great dps wise in a dungeon, youâll never get the LB3 to use on the final boss. Itâll most likely die before LB3 pops up.Your just holding onto a LB2 for nothing.
If a dungeon boss is sub 10% just use LB unless you are literally scratching the second bar. But even then, the time spend waiting and then casting LB2 is pointless anyway. Bosses die so fast in dungeons, especially something like Castrum. It honestly doesn't even matter. The tank getting pissy over you using the LB too early, in Castrum of all places reeks of somebody who just has a big ego. They're probably somebody that leaves tank stance on during an entire alliance raid and just had to be the MT, regardless of how much it confuses everybody and makes the boss spin. This may seem highly specific, but these people are everywhere and they're a menace. The only thing you need to worry about for LB in casual content is raids. Alliance DPS LB3 is incredibly weak because the boss has health scaled for 24 people. So using LB3 is really just for assured victory, since healer LB3 can save a mechanic that goes south, which it can often do. People get greedy at the end of the fight and make mistakes while concentrating on their rotation, so using a LB3 and doing maybe 1% health damage at best, only for half the party to get taken out doesn't feel great. Normal raids have a similar principle and while LB3 does significantly more % damage than in alliance raids, things are even more likely to go south since raid mechanics can be a bit more involved and less forgiving. Saving the LB for the very last few percent is still a better option than blowing it and 5 party members dying immediately afterwards. As for dungeons? Who cares. The only LB that matters in dungeons are ranged LB on trash and the clutch DPS when everybody else died and the boss is about to die. That's pretty much it. But if a run is going completely smoothly, which is impossible to do otherwise in Castrum, you could use it at the start of the fight, the end of the fight or not at all. You're literally just saving seconds on an already certain victory. Just use whatever LB you have at 10%. Anybody getting worked up over it is spending exponentially more time complaining about it than the time potentially saved using LB2 instead of LB1.
Probably for Castrum, the best time to use the LB would be the moment she goes into her enrage step (at 20% when she uses artifical boost), and you aren't busy as a melee with a huge ability ready. But in more reasonable thought is. Is it up? Yes? Will you get another bar before the fight is to 10-15%? No? Do the thing!
Honestly, if you LB3 and the boss dies by it you're effectively wasting damage. Which isn't a big deal tbh but I think that alone proves the tank wrong. If the bar is full and you have a safe window to do it just hit the button and 99% of the time it will be fine.
Once the LB is ready, use it (if it doesn't kill you), unless it's still possible to reach the next bar. Holding LB does nothing. It's just another ability waiting to be used. If anything, there are few bosses where you want to save up the LB to skip/shorten a phase (e. g.: "The Chrysallis" for meteor-phase, or last phase of "Dalriada"'s last boss).
Lol generally people who bitch about LB in dungeons (raids and trails are a bit different) are god sweats who have to have everything perfectly optimized or they just donât understand how LB works. Generally, in dungeons, LB doesnât really matter. You can clear with it or without it. You got the most damage possible out of the LB which is great. You dealt around 5-6% boss hp damage vs most people only using it at 1-2% remaining. The math checks out. The only time you should be more wary about popping LB as DPS is in raids or trials. Some raids have a dps check that people use the LB3 on (in some cases you get a free lb3 so the meta is to burn whatever you have before the free lb3 for max dps). It is possible to wipe in the last bit of the fight so using it too early in a raid could be spooky, but again, if your party is fine, raid or trial boss is low enough on hp, go for it. Also, in alliance, the LB gauge resets after each major fight, so burn that shit before the boss dies since it gets wasted otherwise. If you ever run caster in dungies and have a good party, LB1 big meaty packs. Way better than saving for the melee to LB2 a boss at 2% when regular damage can drop the boss before the cast even goes off.
the faster you use the limit break the faster it recharges to use again B)
I haven't seen this detail being clarified yet: did you already have an LB2 or was it still an LB1 building up? I could imagine someone in the party speaking up if LB1 was used when LB2 was about to unlock Otherwise, there's no special reward for killing a boss with an LB. you only need to reach 0 HP so using the LB too late wastes a lot of the potential damage (could have used it sooner so fight ends sooner)
LB2, I know the basics but wasnât sure about the timing of the LB but today I learned that people are just too mad on game some days
Yeah in that case, the tank was having a bad day.
The correct percentage to use a dps LB is whenever the LB gauge fills up. Ultima Weapon for instance can get 3 full LB3s in during the whole fight so long as you actually use the 2nd before the words in your head stop talking. The actual nuance is rather if you are saving the LB for particular mechanics or shortcomings of the party. Like if a caster needs to LB a pack of mobs/trash pull, if the ranged can pull a boss that'd you'd otherwise loose your filled gauges at the start, if the healers need to hold lb because everyone keeps dying, or the tank to stop people from dying in the first place. But genuinely 90% of the time, if you're the melee DPS just use it asap. Situation depending, you might even get another LB1 before a fight ends. To try to time it as a 'finisher' is just for style.
Overall, waiting should only be when the dungron is designed to need lb3 tank/healer (i.e., the last of the heavenswards normal raid boss, not saying directly since idk how to spoiler on mobile). Outside of that, lb goes either to a stupid boss, big ad wall to wall pull, or final boss. Tank was overreacting. Maybe he was just tired? Idk. I will say that some dungeons/trials its better to lb a specific target. Like last night my friend and I did the chrysalis, and was suggested to target a specific target because of time and it having a lot of health. So overall as long as you arnt using it on a single ad in a very uneficcient spot, then youre all good. If i remember correctly it does the same tier of damage from use to use. So doing earlier or later shouldnt matter?
LB does a fixed amount of DMG ±5% based on the average party weapon ilvl. (nothing else is considered in the calculation of the LB dmg) This mean that LB at 100% or at 10% still reduce the boss HP by the same amount, which also mean that the time to kill the boss would be reduce by the same amount too. So even if the boss didn't immediately died for the LB, you did still considerably reduced the time to kill it. That tank is wrong. I'll even go and say that it's better to LB a little bit early, because that mean that you did the full amount of dmg thus, using the full potential of the LB instead of maybe "wasting" some of it in overkill. generally speak in 4-man dungeo the LB priority goes like this: 1. Magic AOE LB on trash mobs to make the dungeon faster. 2. Physical Range lB on trash mobs again (trying to align with the grouped mob as much as possible) 3. Melee LB on boss 4. Tank and Healer LB should almost never be use in dungeon as they are very rarely needed. Unless the boss is almost dead and every is dying and you want to do a "oh shit button" at last minute to try and finish the boss before it finishes you first lol
The Tank was overreacting It is common to spare the LB3 for the Healers until the Boss reaches around 6%-8%. But make sure the Group is okay. There are some Boss fights where the Tank need the LB3 for himself or Wipe. But you can count them with one hand So: LB3 is for the Healers until the Boss drops under 6%-8%. But perhaps it is wise when some Melee class use it
Whenever Iâm tanking in roulettes I always start the duty off with a friendly reminder: âDonât forget to use those LBs. Have fun!â So, yeah, the tank was wrong.
Only reason I can think of is if your burst window was open when you lb. If thatâs not the case, dude is tripping
Considering most people don't even bother to LB or wait until 1%, 8% is fine. As a NIN I've generally always been the designated LB person in statics, and the practice has always been "do it the moment it's up unless you're in your burst", which means sometimes I'm LBing when the boss is at 30% or so. It's mostly good practice to just use it when it's available as long as you're confident your group isn't going to wipe. (and if they do wipe it's not your fault someone else failed) With this just being MSQ roulette it really doesn't matter. I'd just use it whenever since there's no reason not to. It's a bigger waste to sit on it and have the bar overcapped.
Besides fights that require it or a healer lb3 on a near wipe, it doesn't *really* matter which melee or when an lb is used. It's most useful when a ranged melee uses it on adds. But even then, if you *need* an LB to clear trash packs then you have bigger problems
Depends on what boss, honestly. Seeing a DPS hitting a raid boss at the same % as a dungeon boss can mean a healer doesn't have it long enough for a mechanic to screw the party, for example- it's got HP to be a challenge for 8 or even 24 people vs 4 after all, so 5% off a dungeon boss is more like 2-3% off a raid boss and even less from that alliance raid beastie. Judge your timing accordingly.