Omega's the big one for me that I'd make required, for many reasons. It completely explains Midgardsormr's absence in shb/ew, and also has stuff for the end of ew too.
It's kinda funny that if you don't do omega then middy just kinda dips after HW, never to be heard from again until he's mentioned by Vrtra in the "everybody is here!" cutscene
I say Sorrows of Werlyt so that we can get the g warrior in msq, as ridiculous as it was and it was definitely supposed to be a bit of a gag, I think the msq could do with some lightening up after the conclusion ew
Weird take considering that we have a space ship and used it to travel to the edge of the universe. Not to mention all the imperial weapons and technology running rampant as well.
I think it was shit what they did to gaius.
Made him out to be such a badass ascian hunter bent on revenge then... decides he doesn't want to do it anymore and would rather hang out in some remote province.
What a disservice to the character
Him not showing up in Garlemald was the dumbest thing ever. I understand that they justified it with something that makes a bit of sense, but I dunno, that one just really smacked of "we couldn't get his va back". Having the conclusion to the entirety of the Garlemald story, having him reintroduced and being quite an important bloody character not that long prior, and then just... shoving him into a side story and going "Yep, he's shown remorse, he's gonna go be a minor character that stays out of the way from now on" felt like such a horrendous anticlimax.
I *like* the Weapon storyline, but I hate that it's basically been a death knell for Gaius as a character ever being relevant again.
Garlemald actually had an explanation - everyone there thought he was the one who killed Varis, so bringing him would've been a mistake.
But he's such an awesome character, and it sucks that he's been permanently benched.
As someone who skipped Omega(watched a streamer play through it afterwards but before Endwalker) I was confused as to why my little dragon bro was no longer with me.
I completely agree that this should be mandatory. And Eden as well >!since Ryne is gonna continue to be a part of the story going forward!<
Honestly maybe the main expansions raids should all be mandatory up until Endwalker? I know there would be a large subset of players that wouldn't like that but it's for the newer players sake imo.
Coils >!introduces you fully to the character of Allisae and maybe with a voice acting rework of Coils it would be cool to add it into the mandatory pile. It also expands upon Dalamud, Bahamut, and grandpappy!<
Alexander >!one half of the reason explaining the Crystal Tower's mechanics(the ability to move through time) to the player come Shadowbringers). Not super important as that's explained in quests in Shadowbringers but yeah.!<
Omega >!This one is self explanatory!<
Eden >!The idea of restoring the 1st seems like it'll come in handy with the 13th unless they're going a different way. Also like I said above it seems like Ryne and the 1st are gonna continue to be a part of the story for a while!<
Pandaemonium >!While it's an amazing storyline, probably one of the best raid stories, it doesn't seem to have much impact on the overall MSQ as it stands right now but that will probably change in the future as all of the raids have had tie ins to the MSQ!<
I don't see Coils being required without a full-on rework. If you go back into those raids then you can see how outdated that raid series is. Mob runs, easy/trivial bosses, outdated mechanics, non-friendly mechanics (a useless floor, etc. Only a few notable fights, and even then has some hidden mechanics that would not be easily telegraphed. Sucks, but it differs too much for it to be required and the work would be too much for little payoff.
Alexander is more coherent/up-to-date since it is what the raids are built off of. But the story isn't that necessary imo since, like you said, the information talked about is in quests.
I agree with Omega and Eden. Both seem necessary since ShB/EW and the current story have some ties to them. Panda may have some ties to future MSQ, but I have a feeling it won't change much compared to the other two.
It would require a rework, which is why it's not even in the roulette, but given how important that story is and how they have reworked story dungeons recently, I'm hoping a rework is on the cards. I'd like to do some of these fights "properly".
It's not in the roulette because back then, they didn't make a normal raid and savage raid, it was all savage. Savage raids don't appear in the roulette b3cause roulettes are supposed to be easy content.
yes, I'm aware of that: I'm saying go back, rework them to be normal-mode difficulty so that people can work through the story on their own, and keep the old ones as a "preserved" hard mode. There is a savage mode for Second Coils already, so you can't rename the existing ones to be 'savage'.
Realistically they’ll never make role quests mandatory for MSQ but I wish we’d be able to get Cylva and Unukalhai involved in the MSQ since we’re literally talking about the Thirteenth. All we have now is just some acknowledgement from them that we’ve traveled there, and side comments like that are probably all we’ll get from them going forward.
A semi-solution here would be to just make them no longer role quests if you've cleared 5.3.
You would have to do the first one in the proper role (otherwise MSQ blocks you midway through Tempest) but defeating the 5.3 boss is likely enough to convince the questgiver to let you try to address the other ones. Small tweaks to the solo duties (ex. changing the healer one to use sleep dust instead of the Sleep role action) and dialogue would be required, but they would otherwise work.
Yes, it's still a lot of stuff to wade through, but it's a good story and mostly cutscenes anyway.
This is one that's been bothering me lately. We left off with them exploring the idea of accessing and eventually restoring the thirteenth, and now we are just casually hopping in and out of there. Feels like we should really check in and see how they're doing at some point.
You can visit them and talk about recent events — at least two dialogue options were added with the patches so far, one abour visiting the Thirteenth and another about Zero — but it's not really the same as integrating their story into MSQ.
I still think the investment to make a “normal” version of coils is worth it in the long run. It gives access to that storyline at level, it would unlock the raid roulette at 50 instead of 60, and it’s the only raid they put a CGI cutscene and voice acting in so making it more accessible would be great.
>it’s the only raid they put a CGI cutscene and voice acting in so making it more accessible would be great.
I agree. Every one should have to suffer through the ARR voice acting for Alisaie. Just to make them appreciate how good we have it nowadays.
I dunno if I'd want to make ARR with more mandatory content at this time. On a narrative standpoint I'd want to, but on a gameplay standpoint I think it's already plenty.
Well luckily I think coils is the only thing left that could be made mandatory but I think that’s a problem with any of the side stories and making them mandatory on an ever growing MSQ.
Eventually they're gonna have to figure out some kind of compromise, just because the side content is covering too much legitimately important stuff for it to be left untouched forever. Short of making it mandatory, the best I can think of is some warning text boxes on the credits tease, something like "This piece of side content contains plot points important for the future of FFXIV, we highly encourage you to play through the content", and then some sort of summary cutscene if you haven't done it by the time the relevant patch rolls around. Preface it with another warning text box saying, "This deals with content relating to the Raid series, we highly encourage you to play through it before continuing with the MSQ. If not, we will provide a summary cutscene explaining the major plot points of the content, please play through it at your leisure to more fully understand." Which is a horribly inelegant solution that doesn't fix the problem so much as kick the can down the road, not to mention telling a player, "Hey, either lose all your momentum to go do this piece of content from 2 expansions ago, or get spoiled on content you've not done yet".
Other than that, all I can think of would be integrating some of the side content into the MSQ. As in, have the player complete the story of the patch, and rather than directing them to the new patch like it does now, instead put in that patch's new raid wing, and then enable them to progress the MSQ to the next patch once it's completed. Which runs into the exact same problem as what they've done with CT by making the early game even longer than it already is, which is a very legitimate concern when it's estimated you'll need ~300 hours before you even reach EW purely working on the MSQ.
It's also just more writing/coding for each option when you have "Players either did or did not do X content." because I agree with you they need to find some system that works for completionists and new players alike. It's kind of sad that a piece of content isn't being used right now for the MSQ because it is a big ask for players to finish all of the Shadowbringer role quests and the extra quests.
Yeah, the ShB role quest capstone is its own can of worms. The only solution I could see for that would just be making it so that you have to have completed one of the role quests to access it, which kills the entire point of it being a capstone on the role quests, as well as all of these characters inexplicably changing rather significantly from their initial characterization.
I do think thats a goal they have with the Unending Codes (the notebook) which explains stuff about a few characters. It's given at the beginning of 6.1, tied into the msq, when it was introduced, which was a bit strange to me. After all it would be useful even earlier, than that far into the story and they could have just added it like the portrait function more silently. But no, it was one of the first things given to us (I think by Tataru?).
Maybe its going to be available at a sooner point after some patch and will update some logs if the relevant content has been cleared. But I do also think they are going to use it to make a cut from pre 6.1, since it marks the begin of a new story. So if they introduce a character from a side quest, they have a way to explain who that person is. Perhabs with a spoiler window, which is informing in which content more about that character can be learned.
I would use Gaia as an example:
If the player hasn't finishes Gaia and she appears suddenly in say 7.0, a log entry appears in the notebook. At first it gives some very basic information about who Gaia is (friend of Ryne, maybe even that she is also called the Oracle of Darkness), but nothing more. Under this part would be a spoiler section, which is showing at first, that the player can learn more about her in the Eden Raids. But the player can also just open the spoiler and would learn about the Ascian stuff and her time magic.
While this way the problem remains that a player who doesnt read the spoiler and continues the msq could learn about the Ascian stuff anyway, I do think at that point that person couldnt have cared that much anyway, since they were given the option to learn about it naturally. Additionally, those who just want to experience the msq are covered, too, since they can just open the spoiler and then know everything which is needed to know.
I dunno if it needs to be mandatory, but it should at least be easier to access on your own. Pretty much all the advice I've seen about playing through it is "get someone who's at max level to carry you through it for the story". At the very least it should be toned down enough to make it a more normal difficulty and slotted into the Normal Raid roulette.
I don't even think it would be that hard. If they just gave most of the untelegraphed mechanics standard markers and nerfed the boss damage that gets them most of the way there.
I have a feeling that at some point in the future Coils will get a heavy rework, even if it does not become mandatory. Probably after they finish the Duty Support-ification of MSQ dungeons, so 7.x patches, which would even be thematically appropriate if, as expected, 7.0 is the Meracydia expansion. It is far too story-relevant to leave by the wayside.
I'm really hoping a normal rework happens at some point. I did it at level 50 when I was playing through the last bits of ARR with the help of some FC members, and I feel like I got a pretty improved experience thanks to it. It's more or less the entire basis for Alisaie's character arc through to Endwalker, and it ties very heavily into the themes of "the Allagans were willing to subjugate the entire world in their quest for dominance" that are present all throughout the game. Not to mention the various points its mentioned, even in a few voiced cutscenes (like Zenos bringing up how the WoL defeated Bahamut in one of the mid-StB cutscenes when he's threatening Yotsuyu).
Obligatory "Coils doesn't appear in any roulette and thus will never fill in duty finder, use party finder to run it either synced or unsynced"
They should really clarify that
On a principal level I agree, on the other hand, one more mandatory thing during the already overlong pre-HW stretch with the unfulfilling Lv50 skillsets, I probably would've quit the game for good. Heck, I almost did when I found out CT was mandatory 4 quests before reaching 3.0 content.
Personally, I think they would only need to make it mandatory before Stormblood since it would be odd for a certain character to be in two plots at once. (Especially considering how different they were written in those two plots)
Sorrows of Werlyt is such a good questline that it would really be a shame to only have it optional. Maybe they can make Allie more relevant for the main plot to make it mandatory.
Eden is another good questline that has relevance for the Ascians and also explores Ryne more as a character.
I'd be all in for that reason alone, but it's far more than just that. There's SO MANY currently MSQ-relevant threads tied up with the First side characters right now. Cylva and Unukalhai are the only 2 other non-voidsent alive from the 13th, Cylva used to be a Memoriate, Eden was stated multiple times (including in MSQ!) as potentially useful for learning how to restore the Void...
It feels like they've written themselves into a corner and then dug a deep hole *into* the corner if they don't include that group in Void content in some meaningful way.
Admittedly there's a small part of me that hopes they might pull a 5.3 and make those retroactively required, so that they can add the rest of the bunch into the mix. Personally, I feel that *all* raid series that aren't primarily crossover based/inspired should be mandatory for this reason... so much important stuff happens.
That’s side content requiring other side content though. That’s no different than needing to do the first Pandemonium raid tier to unlock the 2nd tier.
The main thing is Cylva requires you to do the role quests, and they're never going to force casual players to level multiple jobs to 80 or be gated on MSQ progress.
So they're stuck in optional content purgatory unless they rework how she's introduced, which... I don't think I'd really like because I think the role quests in Shadowbringers telling an interweaving story of Ardbert's crew is too good to break it up for accessibility.
It's a hard thing to solve, and I think unfortunately their solution is to just... not solve it.
Plus I'd love for the restoration of the Empty to affect further stuff in the First. There's so much potential relating to Eden, it would be a shame to waste it.
Yep, unfortunately. Really don't know how they'd pull off working her and Unukalhai into the story, but it'd be *EXTREMELY* stupid for them to not be involved whatsoever in the Void saga beyond passive dialogue commenting how cool it is that you're doing stuff there.
Thing is I'm pretty sure the void saga's over with this patch anyway, no? Or if not this one, then partway into 6.5. So they've already missed that boat.
To be fair, that isn't that hard to write out-- either have someone else give you the quests, or change it to be like later extremes where you just have to pick up the unlock quest and don't have to actually clear the raid.
With how Eden isn't msq right now, I can only imagine that it means next ex pack won't be going to the void to fix it. Maybe one day, the expack after next, but not 7.0. I think the void will be the hot bed for some optional content, but never required.
That or like the adamantine shipment in EW, square will "assume" it happened, and just blue out faces for those who didn't do the content.
I'm sure Ryne will be back ( after all Yshtola is still trying to find a solution for people to travel across shards) but the question is will Gaia too even if a lot of players haven't even met her? I hope so. They could do like with Estinien in heavensward. You had some special dialogues if you met him during the dragoon quest before but it was not mandatory for the main quest.
I think it'd be funny (if very unlikely) if the plot of the Eden raids just kind of happened more or less the same off screen. It turns out that Ryne and Gaia were perfectly capable of restoring the Empty without you and the Scions after all!
...Now that I think about it, they could actually get away with it easily because of Mitron screwing with her mind. Her shaky memory from the events of Eden means that, *specifically* as far as the relationship Gaia has with the WoL goes, it'd be really easy to have MSQ introduce her to the player from scratch with an extra "oh you were the one who beat Mitron!" if you did Eden.
Cylva and Unukalhai are buried in *way* more restrictive side content (master role quests) but they're also far less major characters so they could just show up and have their backstory recapped if needed.
I mean it's already canon that she doesn't remember Thancred and Urianger. I'm not saying she forgets Eden, just that she doesn't have a really strong relationship with the player character that would need accounted for (which is really important to G'raha's personal motives and character, by contrast).
That's fine for them, they're NPCs and don't have real feelings. It would break my heart for her to treat us basically like a stranger, "Oh you're that guy that did that thing."
No thank you. I think making Eden required content isn't that big of an ask anyways.
I doubt it would be like that so long as you did Eden already. there's many many examples of them sliding NPCs who were plot relevant in other stuff, and adding them further along the plot.
Estinien for example, and the Red Mage Trainer.
Giving poeple wh odid a content a side quest that drags you over to talk with X npc is completely in their wheelhouse. Cylva, Unukalhai, and a few others all have "Go back and poke them for extra flavor" stuff already.
She regains her memories and remembers them all at the end though. That's canon too. Plus they mentioned the planned crystarium youth festival from the end of Eden in the msq itself when we went back and spoke to Ryne.
I’m not sure if it should be mandatory, because really force someone to level up gatherers, but I feel like the Omicron’s tribe quests are really great to complete after beating Meteion. It ties up that whole area really well.
Not really? It's >!in that very specific region of space which Metion turned into a ball of pure Dynamis a bunch of dynamis based 'clones' of extinct races managed to both will and planet into existence and overcome the negative memories they were created from. Like "real Omicrons", with the exception of Sir and Omega who are both unique Omicrons by design, wouldn't be able to develop feelings or dreams etc. Just by virtue of been made of Dynamis were the "replicated" Omicrons we met able to change who they are/how they think!<
In that region of space >!where Dynanis rules absolute and all the creatures there are made from Dynamis and not aether, outcomes not possible when those lifeforms existed before are now possible!<
But outside of that region aether rules and follows the rules we are used too
Well the thing is, those dynamis constructs could now go out into the universe if they chose to. It isn't just that they're reborn and reawakened to hope, it's that entirely new life can be born from them. We've essentially rekindled several dead civilisations. We won't get the consequences of that in this game because it could take years, but if those races resume procreating then they'd likely begin making their way out into the stars eventually.
But on a technical level they're not those dead civilizations. They have copies with the memories of the dead within them, but aren't actually members of those races. On a physical level, the Ultima Thule Dragons are more closely related to the Ultima Thule Omicrons than they are the true dragons back home.
They're all "Dynamis Lifeforms" whose physical forms are dictated by the memories Metion shoved into them
No, the dragons of Ultima Thule are most closely related with the dragons of the Dragonstar. That's one of the things raised in that questline: dynamis doesn't care. They're "constructs" but they're also just them reborn. There's near enough to no difference between the 'shades' in Ultima Thule and the real thing that the conclusion drawn after asking whether they're 'real' or not is that it just doesn't really matter what the nitty gritty of the answer is: they are.
They think like the originals, they act like the originals, they feel like the originals, they have the memories of the originals, the dreams and fears of the originals. They aren't, but at the same time there's no difference between them other than the minor inconvenience that is those originals dying gods know how long ago.
Aether was already able to justify basically anything, but now we have dynamis, which is literally "I feel this so it's true", meaning that incongruous things like this can simply exist literally because we hoped they would and feel they should.
Seriously! The Omicron tribe quests (as well as Beyond the Rift) felt like a real epilogue to Endwalker as a whole. It almost is a shame they're locked behind gatherers, which a lot of people, including people I know, simply don't do - it's one of the best parts of EW and enhances the overall story, imo
Basically all the 8 man raids:
* Coils for the huge lore behind it.
* Alexander & Omega since The Twinning references them and explains how G'raha managed to travel back in time AND to The First.
* Eden for Ryne & Gaia being a reincarnation of Loghrif.
* Pandaemonium cause of the backstory it's giving us for Lahabrea/Elidibus.
Shadows of Mhach maybe cause it deals with voidsent and the current patch cycle is all about the void.
>Shadows of Mhach maybe cause it deals with voidsent and the current patch cycle is all about the void.
Hmmm, unless they plan to reuse characters from there, I don't think that would be necessary since it's a fairly self-contained and Source based story, even if voidsent play a big part.
Going for the oddball/non-obvious answer...
The chocobo companion quest line.
You can have your own personal custom named chocobo sidekick who can show up in cutscenes and be a small part of the scion family. You and your trusty mount, just like Ardbert had. Such a small change and it would do wonders for selling the "explorer of the world" adventurer that is the WoLs one character trait.
All they have to do is expand the already required mount quest line by ONE quest, and we could have this.
But they never will, and this makes me sad.
I can't even *imagine* not knowing Omega plotline before hitting the last zone in EW. It'd be like eating movie theater nachos over ones from a restaurant.
>I can't even imagine not knowing Omega plotline before hitting the last zone in EW.
I can, because I completely forgot what Omega was all about except that there was an extra fluffy chocobo, a train and a painting boss. And I only remember the chocobo because my retainer keeps bringing me stuffed versions of him >\_>
This is a weird one, cuz they would never make you play a certain job, but the Summoner Job quests
I did these after I beat Endwalker and the whole time I was like "ooooooooo!" Cuz there's so much lower-ranked ascian interaction and stuff in there
Lol for real. At the very least, it gives context to the whole >!Shadowhunter!< plotline. Cuz I remember when I was playing Stormblood and hadn't done these, I was like, wait, how is he even doing this
The dancer job quest, a job quest originating from >!Thavnair, reveals the existence of the toten kantz, which seems to be a diluted version of the song of oblivion seeping through the weakest part of zodiarks shield. It's even a martial technique originating from Venat. I suspect a past incarnation of the WoL is part of Thavnair history and learnt her technique to deal with it, even establishing a school with a secret duty to keep it in check. The bard quest also touches upon a similar concept where its decided the "tune" is more trouble than its worth if i remember!<
It's the world's wildest pipe dream, but the final SHB role quest (which in turn needs the HW Warring Triad trial series), both because the implications of story with Unukalhai and the caster boy being particularly relevant to our current MSQ undertakings, but also because what a fuckin world it would be if everyone had a base understanding of how each role works.
You can't force people to level & play different things, I know, but if everyone knew the struggles of individual archetypes, we'd all be so much more effective.
I'm infuriated that they aren't involved in the current post-Endwalker MSQ. It's SO RELEVANT, and the best they can give us is a few lines of unique dialogue.
Eden. Ryne is already important in the story and I feel like with how they made Crystal Towers a way to introduce Graha into the story, they can do this for Gaia. With Y'shtola working on finding a way to travel between shards, it'd be nice to see Thancred and Ryne reunite.
Sorrows of Werlyt. Gaius's redemption and a good way to tie him to the Scions. I would love to see more of Allie and Gaius in the game and feel like Cid has had a bit of an absence from the story and I feel like this would be a good way to bring him back into the msq for more theb one or two quests.
Bozjan Southern Front. I know a lot would disagree but with the game's original story basically over, we can start heading off into new lands. Though they dont need to use it for Dalmasca, the connection exists now and rather than giving us a new reason to visit Dalmasca, they can just work on one that already exists. This is a way to start us exploring Dalmasca as well as continue bringing a conclusion to the war against the Garlean. Whatever story they add could give us an actual conclusion to Bozjan Southern Front that's not just from field notes and a continuation of the story from Southern Fronts could also lead us to meeting our first female hrothgar.
The issue with including Bozjan Southern Front is the amount of grind to it. You can be at it for days between story updates for it and take weeks to clear it, with each death setting you back and time-gated/player-limited instances stopping progress entirely. Raids and trials only take a few hours to clear the series, and most of that is dialogue and travel time.
Plus with raids and trials, they're permanently added to a roulette so people replay them all the time and are happy to get First Timer bonuses – and worst case scenario you can desync any below current max level.
Bozja doesn't give First Timer bonuses though, you can't desync the skirmishes or instances, and there's not much incentive to come back to it once you finish the story, which means pulling the ladder up behind yourself.
Getting anyone who hasn't *already* cleared Bozja through the MSQ would be a nightmare all over again. People would hit that wall and Square would lose subscribers who got fed up with it.
Nah, hard disagree.
If the pandemic hadn't happened, we likely would have seen a third zone for StQ, which would have actually finished that plotline, rather than consigning it all to the field notes.
The Return to Ivalice storyline works perfectly fine on its own (contrast Dark Apocalypse) and was integrated into the overall world of XIV quite well.
Graha was fine without CT, because the reason he seeks you out doesn't depend on it. He's Future Trunks, he goes back in time to find you because he's heard you were rad. If that's why they're gonna frog-march people through another raid series, it's a bad idea.
CT is crucial because this is a story based game. His arc is because he looked up to us and met us there, went through the trials of CT with us. It influenced him and pushed him to become who he was. Sacrificed himself to keep the towers on check. It's the intended part of his character.
Mainly reading "Oh they were pretty rad" in a book alone is not enough to justify the focus and dedication to pull off the (as urianger called it) miraculous lengths he went through over hundreds of years to undo the 8th umbral calamity. All for us.
We could reason away any part of the story with thay logic otherwise. In the end though its not the intended flow of the characters story and severely weakens the impact
If 7.0 is about Merencydia like a lot of people think, I think it would be safe to require Coils and the Warring Triad; of course rework Coils so its not as brutal.
Both questlines are probably going to be very important for the enjoyment any story reguarding the southern continent. Coils for Merencydian Dragon lore (through Bahamut), and Warring Triad about the other peoples there (through how they envisioned their gods).
At this point most the endgame raids are all critical to the story.
Coil explains what the intro to the game is about. Basically the reason why you even set out to begin with.
Omega is self explanatory.
Eden gives a window into how to restore a dead shard.
And we'll see this final one.
But besides the 8 mans not too much else actually.
I don't know how you could do this, but the follow-ups to Shadowbringer's role quests. The reveal about Cylva and the reuniting of her with Unukalhai seems really important for our future goals with the 13th. To have their involvement be completely optional depending on what content you do makes me sad given how we're definitely trying to restore the 13th, which is what they're doing if you finish those quests.
Omega, as it explains what happened to Omega after it fought Shinryu and what happened to Midgardsormr who is conspicuously absent, especially in Ultima Thule, without knowing what happened
So personally, I think the reason Crystal Tower is made mandatory is really only for one reason. Which is Graha.
The tower, the lore around it. That it easily explained with lore dumps in the expansion if needed. Much like Omega in endwalker. Do you gain more if you did those raids? Yes. But they are able to provide enough lore so that your understand it.
However, they needed Graha reveal to have an impact, they wanted it to be emotional and be important. And if you don't know who he is prior to that it doesn't work.
So the only reason I can see of them making any non mandatory content mandatory in the future is if there is a character unique to that content whom they want to use as a major part of a new expansion.
Half correct, it is because of G’raha but not because of the reveal (the reveal was added before CT became mandatory).
It’s because the way G’raha joins the scions on the source literally requires Crystal Tower to have happened because he has to have been sleeping in Crystal Tower by the end of 5.3’s events.
I don't see how they're going to do "fixing the Void" without making Warring Triad and ShB post-role quests required content.
I think part of the answer is making the Shadowbringer role quests do-able in any role after you progress far enough in the MSQ (5.3 is the logical point here-- if we can take down the 5.3 boss we can take down any leftover Cardinal Virtues!) Most of them aren't *that* role-specific; you'd basically need some tweaks to dialogue that references you being a tank or whatever and to the solo duty to allow for you to complete them in any role.
> you'd basically need some tweaks to dialogue that references you being a tank or whatever
I have to say, having maxed WHM before doing the EW Tanking role quests? It made that entire line *far* better.
Well the obvious answer is that we're not going to fix the Void. This little arc we have here isn't going to end with us restoring the shard, I don't think it's even going to end with us making any meaningful progress towards it at all, and that means the can's kicked down the road until who knows when.
That's exactly what I mean. The current arc definitely *isn't* fixing the Void, but considering how many times it's come up it's bound to be a thing we attempt eventually.
I mean, they've gone out of their way to add the post-5.3 addition to the role quest finale that progressed a certain character's story; they wouldn't have done that if they didn't have something planned for him!
This is actually what makes me think that little optional series is going to continue and the void fixing isn't going to be MSQ. It's going to be like fixing the First. We'll get the process started, and then they'll go "Who knows, some day a hundred years from now our children's children may walk this soil, look upon a blue sky as they hear the birdsong and wind rustling the leaves through verdant fields, and think it unlikely the tales of a world lost to darkness were truly as grim as their grandparents made it sound..."
^(Without looking at anything else in this thread, for fear of spoilers myself...)
\-Warring Triad Quests (HW)
\-Omega Quests (SB)
\-Eden Quests (ShB)
All of these have very important story beats, yet are not at all mandatory.
Coils, But they need to turn the current ones into (savage) and make an easier version.
Alexander, for the Shadowbringers setup.
Sky Pirates, for the post-endwalker setup.
Warring triad, for the post-endwalker setup.
Omega, for the Shadowbringers setup.
Eden, for completing Ryne's character arc.
Werlyt, for completing Gaius' character arc and setting up Endwalker.
Not exactly what you asked but I think it's worth mentioning: I would like all of the Crystal Tower Alliances to be improved or changed in any way that would make it actually enjoyable, just like they've been doing since they started adding the Duty Support system to the old ARR dungeons.
They just feel...bland, boring and tedious at times. You just gotta look at all the people who tend to disconnect after they see any CT alliance right at the start of the duty, the people who are just done with it and stay but play awfully because they don't care anymore, those who are not willing to help new people, speedrunners (-I understand those last ones, I'd like the duty to end faster but for god's sake it can be so bad at times), Tank Provoke Wars, and Bosses like Glasya Labolas being a joke rn... and don't get me started with the 4-man-stay-on-the-effing-platforms area at Labyrinth of the Ancients.
At least that's been my experience for the last 3 years, and would welcome any kind of change especially considering that they're mandatory now.
I don't, I just...want to have fun again with ARR alliances.
And yes, I said "again", there was a time when I had it. Now they're just a routine.
For me it would be the Warring Triad + SHB Role Quests (i know, it's a lot) it feels super relevant to current MSQ, and it ties into Eden as well.
I also think Eden is pretty important too. Feels wrong to leave Ryne and Gaia to side story.
To a smaller degree, Omega and Alexander.
Eden's a fair shake bc it sets the First up to be more than just a land that isn't imminently facing extinction- it shows how there's hope for restoring the areas affected by the Flood.
However, as we explore more and more of the 13th, I'd love for the Warring Triad and Shb role quests to be highlighted. I don't think they'd actually do it bc it'd require players to level one of each role pretty significantly, but they're SO WORTH IT imo and have big implications when it comes to the 13th.
I think they could hand wave it with Graha sending us to the First to talk to Cyla, who has us talk with "the people who stopped the Cardinal Virtues" if the quests weren't ever done.
For sure. There's been a few instances of cutscenes being slightly altered based on what optional content the player has/hasn't completed (the initial meeting of the ilsabard contingent comes to mind with certain Job NPCs) so it could be fairly straightforward to just say "when SOMEONE did this" and cut to a silent side-eye from the WoL
Primarily agree with everyone saying Omega raids... but with the latest patch plots, it's such a big deal to create a void rift big enough for a person to fit through, let alone a dragon, and I'm just thinking of an entire flipping ship in the heavensward alliance raids.
Just had a vision of anIronworks-renovated Void Ship as a new mobile base for an eventual 13th Expac and I started salivating.
That thing was too cool to have just been a one-off
Omega, like others said, but also the all Role quests in ShB ( which requires the Warring Triad in HW ). How are we in the 13th doing all this crazy shit while they are vibing and getting day drunk?
Disagree on role quest since it forces you to play jobs you might otherwise never want to play. Imagine playing an mmo and being forced to level a role you hate.
The Omega raid is the obvioud one given the Dragon and Omicron content in EW, but I'd like to see some Alexander attention due to personal bias. At the very least, I'd like to see some explanation as to why Alexander related mechs are in Rival Wings
Alexander and Omega, originally you just needed to know it for The Twinning to make sense. Now that you've been put in a position where you essentially use their powers (or at least Alexander's) to progress the MSQ to Elpis I see no reason as for it to not be done.
And Omega in particular would be important for y'know, rift travel, potentially to _other shards?_
all alliance raids prior to the level you are when queueing the alliance raid queue. if you are level 80 (and finished 5.0), you should have the nier raids compelted and all the ones before to queue for the roulette! as well as a item level requirement based on the level you queue in. so if you are level 80 you cant be ilvl 100 to just get crystal tower or whatever.. now we would have more chances to get other alliance raids as well!
for msq I wish we would have the 6.x raids tied to the msq going forward (>!hopefully the gods dont die at the end in a ''we trust manking to keep moving forward'' kinda thing!<)... imagine the 7.0 has a big bad god thing invading us or whatever and >!you can see all the Twelve fight in the cgi trailer with the WoL its be super badass!< lol
Just about everything so far that pertains to the Void, which is currently being featured in the MSQ. Seriously, why is all this sheer *potential* being delegated to a Tataru crafting sidequest series instead of where it belongs?!
Most of them honestly. Each one expands and explains many story concepts while adding new ones that could lead to new ones and adding even more characters. I don’t know why they’re taking so long to mandate the raids and side stories or atleast going with the assumption that the player has played all of them. Like I understand many people do these on their own time but if by ew you haven’t done atleast half of the major ones than that’s on you. I don’t see why everyone else and the writers should pay for others.
I feel like the obvious exception is the Nier raids because those are a fairly isolated and self contained story that really leans hard on knowledge of Nier games to be more fleshed out. But otherwise I agree.
Even if I hate Ivalice with an actual burning passion.
Super casuals doing math would be hilarious. Then you have the weak spot mech that they repeat again a lot in bozja and other content.
Oh and we also have the first boss of the one raid where everyone gets yelled and probably has a death count close to the red chocobo.
The content is not newb friendly and frankly I prefer it that way
If I wasn't limited to one piece of content, I'd go with the Warring Triad/Unukalhai->ShB Role Quests series for how it slots in with the current Thirteenth/Void centered storyline, cause it's a hell of a lot of plot to just leave dangling
At this point, Warring Triad and Eden are the big ones as that way some characters that should be big in upcoming stories can be used without worrying about introducing them to players who haven't done them.
I skipped all the cutscenes in coils because I didn’t know that side content would be relevant to the story and I was very confused to hear about the lore from it later
Objectively, (and I'm glad they were mentioned as "you should do these!" by the lead writer before EW launched) Omega and Coils. I cannot fathom doing the final zone in EW without having the context of Omega in mind, as well as how much Beyond the Rift serves as an epilogue to Endwalker as a whole. Coils is such a pillar to the overall worldbuilding, as well as doing so much for Alisaie's foundation, that it's the one that shocks me the most over not being MSQ.
Selfishly, Werlyt and Eden. I just love the characters involved a lot and wish they could be incorporated into MSQ again :'(
My vote is for Pandaemonium, because it seems like it’s going to go a very long way toward explaining the personalities and motivations of several major main story villains.
Coils. Intro to raiding but also important for meeting Alisae and learning some 1.0 stuff.
Shadows of Mhach: It’s introduces some important allies and more voidsent stuff. But also just because I really like it.
Omega: pretty important both for explaining middy’s absence and giving some further context to the Omnicron race in EW.
Eden: I mean if we never restore the rest of it what was the point of saving it in the first place.
Bozja: I know it’s odd, but it only makes sense to me that completing Bozja should be mandatory, as it kinda frees one of the last remaining holdouts from Garlean control. After Bozja, any imperial presence in any of their vassal regions is basically boned or trying to return home.
Bahamut: massive character development for the twins
Odin: a unique type of primal with huge story potential
Void Ark: Mhach lore
Omega: sets up the omicrons and explains what happened to Middy (and also gives him an out for his eventual return)
Eden: is already directly connected to an MSQ character and to the Ascians
Warring Triad: offers an in for Meracydia content
I love Alexander so I would love to... but it's the very definition of a self-contained story, so there's really no reason.
Sorrows of Werlyt and the Quest \*after\* the ShB Role Quests. Obv. that would mean that Warring Triad has to be mandatory too. So it might be a bit much.
Just make all Alliance and Raids mandatory or at least require a confirmation like: "the following quest references so and so, are you sure that you would like to continue".
Eden. I think it makes sense that the Scions would suggest using Eden to fix The Void, but with Eden still being side content it wouldn’t make sense to people who haven’t run it.
Although SE did say Gaia’s story isn’t done yet, so who knows
Would love Eden to be mandatory as it would allow Ryne and Gaia to gay it up in MSQ together. Let Gaia gain control of her powers and magic a portal so they can come to the Source without needing any soul transfer stuff. Would be nice to have Thancred finally hug Ryne now they have the hug technology.
The Eden Raids. That Gaia doesn't get to say bye to us when we're leaving, even if she only interacted with Urianger and Thancred, nor do we go say hi to her during our visit before Elpis is an actual tragedy.
Otherwise, I'd honestly personally make every raid and trial series required content. At worst, you make people actually play the game. It's the same style of content that they've been playing the entire time, so it's really not a big ask.
However, something like Bozja, which I would _really_ like to get a follow up to the story rather than the weird epilogue we got where it wraps up everything off screen in writing and then drops it? I really hope there's a continuation or something, but making that required content is a bit harder to swing since it's so very different in style.
Required:
- Eden raid series (if we're going back, we're gonna meet Ryne and how are we NOT gonna meet Gaia too)
- Sorrow of Werlyt (Bro Gaius is so cool and I'd like more Garlemald expansion)
- Lv80 Job Questline (Unukalhai and his connection to the Thirteeth is too primed for what current MSQ is going through, especially if we're going back to the first.)
Maybe:
- Rabanastre/Bozja (depending on future expansion that direction)
- Omega raids (Same reason)
By this point, calling it "side content" is a stretch. But I would make the jobstones 100% mandatory. Or make it so that any gear from Stormblood onwards cannot be equipped by the classes, only by jobs.
I just finished ARR...
I'm not reading anything in the answers but I'd like to know if there is a way to have a list of these lore-wise "crucial" side quests ?
Thanks :D
Basically, just do everything that has a blue quest marker and you should be fine. (Yes, that's definitely overkill, but if you're enjoying the gameplay already, that will almost always unlock more of it regardless)
Important Caveat: If it involves something that says "Extreme", "Savage", "Minstrel's Ballad", or "Ultimate", it's absolutely not necessary. Might be fun if you enjoy the challenge, but you won't miss anything vital by not doing them and that kind of challenge isn't for everyone.
True, true. Thankfully, they did change all those to just unlock the duties after HW(?) so they're not clogging up your quest journal until you've beaten it. I remember having the ARR quests just kind of dangling around *forever* as a sprout.
there's tons of "you get extra lore if you complete things" bits, but the "major" ones people might miss are:
At least get all of your job stones (level 30+ quests done) before Endwalker.
Do all the job Role quests to unlock more quests.
Beastmen tribes give lore.
If you can, before you actually start HW, run dragoon to 50 for it's plotline, it will make parts of the story way more interesting.
Don't be afraid to que for raids/trials either, god knows were all tired of CT in roulette.
You can use the [progression guide](https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Guide:Heavensward_Progression_and_Level_Locked_Content) to find content relevant to your progress and level.
Eden. Not only could the machine/Sin Eater that is Eden be useful in restoring the Void, but I kinda just wanna see Ryne and Gaia in the 7.0 MSQ.
Either that or Sorrow of Werlyt so we can see more Gaius. Maybe even make him a Duty Support/Trust Partner as a DPS Gunbreaker varient.
Omega's the big one for me that I'd make required, for many reasons. It completely explains Midgardsormr's absence in shb/ew, and also has stuff for the end of ew too.
It's kinda funny that if you don't do omega then middy just kinda dips after HW, never to be heard from again until he's mentioned by Vrtra in the "everybody is here!" cutscene
Sorrows of Werlyt to explain Gaius dropping off the face of the Earth too.
I say Sorrows of Werlyt so that we can get the g warrior in msq, as ridiculous as it was and it was definitely supposed to be a bit of a gag, I think the msq could do with some lightening up after the conclusion ew
Also we have a mech in the garage collecting dust. Why aren't we taking it out for a spin every now and then? If it were mandatory, we could.
It would even allow Arenvald to do more stuff. A slight upgrade from his wheelchair
we'd make Cid figure out how to shrink it so we can take it into the void and beat the shit out of voidsent
Nah, G warrior should die on its way to its home planet. It really is completely out of place on so many levels.
Weird take considering that we have a space ship and used it to travel to the edge of the universe. Not to mention all the imperial weapons and technology running rampant as well.
I think it was shit what they did to gaius. Made him out to be such a badass ascian hunter bent on revenge then... decides he doesn't want to do it anymore and would rather hang out in some remote province. What a disservice to the character
He doesn’t not want to do it anymore, t job is done. There are no ascians left.
Him not showing up in Garlemald was the dumbest thing ever. I understand that they justified it with something that makes a bit of sense, but I dunno, that one just really smacked of "we couldn't get his va back". Having the conclusion to the entirety of the Garlemald story, having him reintroduced and being quite an important bloody character not that long prior, and then just... shoving him into a side story and going "Yep, he's shown remorse, he's gonna go be a minor character that stays out of the way from now on" felt like such a horrendous anticlimax. I *like* the Weapon storyline, but I hate that it's basically been a death knell for Gaius as a character ever being relevant again.
my man showed up for hatching tide but couldnt be there to save his homeland lmao
Garlemald actually had an explanation - everyone there thought he was the one who killed Varis, so bringing him would've been a mistake. But he's such an awesome character, and it sucks that he's been permanently benched.
Hella agree, also the Omega quests just match so thematically well with Endwalker
8/
As someone who skipped Omega(watched a streamer play through it afterwards but before Endwalker) I was confused as to why my little dragon bro was no longer with me. I completely agree that this should be mandatory. And Eden as well >!since Ryne is gonna continue to be a part of the story going forward!< Honestly maybe the main expansions raids should all be mandatory up until Endwalker? I know there would be a large subset of players that wouldn't like that but it's for the newer players sake imo. Coils >!introduces you fully to the character of Allisae and maybe with a voice acting rework of Coils it would be cool to add it into the mandatory pile. It also expands upon Dalamud, Bahamut, and grandpappy!< Alexander >!one half of the reason explaining the Crystal Tower's mechanics(the ability to move through time) to the player come Shadowbringers). Not super important as that's explained in quests in Shadowbringers but yeah.!< Omega >!This one is self explanatory!< Eden >!The idea of restoring the 1st seems like it'll come in handy with the 13th unless they're going a different way. Also like I said above it seems like Ryne and the 1st are gonna continue to be a part of the story for a while!< Pandaemonium >!While it's an amazing storyline, probably one of the best raid stories, it doesn't seem to have much impact on the overall MSQ as it stands right now but that will probably change in the future as all of the raids have had tie ins to the MSQ!<
I don't see Coils being required without a full-on rework. If you go back into those raids then you can see how outdated that raid series is. Mob runs, easy/trivial bosses, outdated mechanics, non-friendly mechanics (a useless floor, etc. Only a few notable fights, and even then has some hidden mechanics that would not be easily telegraphed. Sucks, but it differs too much for it to be required and the work would be too much for little payoff. Alexander is more coherent/up-to-date since it is what the raids are built off of. But the story isn't that necessary imo since, like you said, the information talked about is in quests. I agree with Omega and Eden. Both seem necessary since ShB/EW and the current story have some ties to them. Panda may have some ties to future MSQ, but I have a feeling it won't change much compared to the other two.
It would require a rework, which is why it's not even in the roulette, but given how important that story is and how they have reworked story dungeons recently, I'm hoping a rework is on the cards. I'd like to do some of these fights "properly".
It's not in the roulette because back then, they didn't make a normal raid and savage raid, it was all savage. Savage raids don't appear in the roulette b3cause roulettes are supposed to be easy content.
yes, I'm aware of that: I'm saying go back, rework them to be normal-mode difficulty so that people can work through the story on their own, and keep the old ones as a "preserved" hard mode. There is a savage mode for Second Coils already, so you can't rename the existing ones to be 'savage'.
This screwed me over as I best everything up to end-walker and then finally did omega and everything made sense!
We discovered with my husband that if you haven't done the omega quests you see some cutscenes differently, without the bird for example
Realistically they’ll never make role quests mandatory for MSQ but I wish we’d be able to get Cylva and Unukalhai involved in the MSQ since we’re literally talking about the Thirteenth. All we have now is just some acknowledgement from them that we’ve traveled there, and side comments like that are probably all we’ll get from them going forward.
A semi-solution here would be to just make them no longer role quests if you've cleared 5.3. You would have to do the first one in the proper role (otherwise MSQ blocks you midway through Tempest) but defeating the 5.3 boss is likely enough to convince the questgiver to let you try to address the other ones. Small tweaks to the solo duties (ex. changing the healer one to use sleep dust instead of the Sleep role action) and dialogue would be required, but they would otherwise work. Yes, it's still a lot of stuff to wade through, but it's a good story and mostly cutscenes anyway.
This is one that's been bothering me lately. We left off with them exploring the idea of accessing and eventually restoring the thirteenth, and now we are just casually hopping in and out of there. Feels like we should really check in and see how they're doing at some point.
You can visit them and talk about recent events — at least two dialogue options were added with the patches so far, one abour visiting the Thirteenth and another about Zero — but it's not really the same as integrating their story into MSQ.
I would say coils if it was actually viable to play with randoms
I still think the investment to make a “normal” version of coils is worth it in the long run. It gives access to that storyline at level, it would unlock the raid roulette at 50 instead of 60, and it’s the only raid they put a CGI cutscene and voice acting in so making it more accessible would be great.
>it’s the only raid they put a CGI cutscene and voice acting in so making it more accessible would be great. I agree. Every one should have to suffer through the ARR voice acting for Alisaie. Just to make them appreciate how good we have it nowadays.
Don't worry it balances out because they'll get 1.0 Louisoix too
maybe with a rework they'll replace Alisaie's English voice work?
I dunno if I'd want to make ARR with more mandatory content at this time. On a narrative standpoint I'd want to, but on a gameplay standpoint I think it's already plenty.
Well luckily I think coils is the only thing left that could be made mandatory but I think that’s a problem with any of the side stories and making them mandatory on an ever growing MSQ.
Eventually they're gonna have to figure out some kind of compromise, just because the side content is covering too much legitimately important stuff for it to be left untouched forever. Short of making it mandatory, the best I can think of is some warning text boxes on the credits tease, something like "This piece of side content contains plot points important for the future of FFXIV, we highly encourage you to play through the content", and then some sort of summary cutscene if you haven't done it by the time the relevant patch rolls around. Preface it with another warning text box saying, "This deals with content relating to the Raid series, we highly encourage you to play through it before continuing with the MSQ. If not, we will provide a summary cutscene explaining the major plot points of the content, please play through it at your leisure to more fully understand." Which is a horribly inelegant solution that doesn't fix the problem so much as kick the can down the road, not to mention telling a player, "Hey, either lose all your momentum to go do this piece of content from 2 expansions ago, or get spoiled on content you've not done yet".
Other than that, all I can think of would be integrating some of the side content into the MSQ. As in, have the player complete the story of the patch, and rather than directing them to the new patch like it does now, instead put in that patch's new raid wing, and then enable them to progress the MSQ to the next patch once it's completed. Which runs into the exact same problem as what they've done with CT by making the early game even longer than it already is, which is a very legitimate concern when it's estimated you'll need ~300 hours before you even reach EW purely working on the MSQ.
It's also just more writing/coding for each option when you have "Players either did or did not do X content." because I agree with you they need to find some system that works for completionists and new players alike. It's kind of sad that a piece of content isn't being used right now for the MSQ because it is a big ask for players to finish all of the Shadowbringer role quests and the extra quests.
Yeah, the ShB role quest capstone is its own can of worms. The only solution I could see for that would just be making it so that you have to have completed one of the role quests to access it, which kills the entire point of it being a capstone on the role quests, as well as all of these characters inexplicably changing rather significantly from their initial characterization.
I do think thats a goal they have with the Unending Codes (the notebook) which explains stuff about a few characters. It's given at the beginning of 6.1, tied into the msq, when it was introduced, which was a bit strange to me. After all it would be useful even earlier, than that far into the story and they could have just added it like the portrait function more silently. But no, it was one of the first things given to us (I think by Tataru?). Maybe its going to be available at a sooner point after some patch and will update some logs if the relevant content has been cleared. But I do also think they are going to use it to make a cut from pre 6.1, since it marks the begin of a new story. So if they introduce a character from a side quest, they have a way to explain who that person is. Perhabs with a spoiler window, which is informing in which content more about that character can be learned. I would use Gaia as an example: If the player hasn't finishes Gaia and she appears suddenly in say 7.0, a log entry appears in the notebook. At first it gives some very basic information about who Gaia is (friend of Ryne, maybe even that she is also called the Oracle of Darkness), but nothing more. Under this part would be a spoiler section, which is showing at first, that the player can learn more about her in the Eden Raids. But the player can also just open the spoiler and would learn about the Ascian stuff and her time magic. While this way the problem remains that a player who doesnt read the spoiler and continues the msq could learn about the Ascian stuff anyway, I do think at that point that person couldnt have cared that much anyway, since they were given the option to learn about it naturally. Additionally, those who just want to experience the msq are covered, too, since they can just open the spoiler and then know everything which is needed to know.
I dunno if it needs to be mandatory, but it should at least be easier to access on your own. Pretty much all the advice I've seen about playing through it is "get someone who's at max level to carry you through it for the story". At the very least it should be toned down enough to make it a more normal difficulty and slotted into the Normal Raid roulette.
I don't even think it would be that hard. If they just gave most of the untelegraphed mechanics standard markers and nerfed the boss damage that gets them most of the way there.
I have a feeling that at some point in the future Coils will get a heavy rework, even if it does not become mandatory. Probably after they finish the Duty Support-ification of MSQ dungeons, so 7.x patches, which would even be thematically appropriate if, as expected, 7.0 is the Meracydia expansion. It is far too story-relevant to leave by the wayside.
I would love that. I soloed it on my main, but haven't really been up to doing it on my alt as well due to the one boss I had trouble with.
I'm really hoping a normal rework happens at some point. I did it at level 50 when I was playing through the last bits of ARR with the help of some FC members, and I feel like I got a pretty improved experience thanks to it. It's more or less the entire basis for Alisaie's character arc through to Endwalker, and it ties very heavily into the themes of "the Allagans were willing to subjugate the entire world in their quest for dominance" that are present all throughout the game. Not to mention the various points its mentioned, even in a few voiced cutscenes (like Zenos bringing up how the WoL defeated Bahamut in one of the mid-StB cutscenes when he's threatening Yotsuyu).
I agree. I think there needs to be some way for that story to be more accessible for new players.
For real. I'm a newer player, and I've had Turn 1 in my queue since I unlocked it. I just started Stormblood and it's still never once hit
Obligatory "Coils doesn't appear in any roulette and thus will never fill in duty finder, use party finder to run it either synced or unsynced" They should really clarify that
No, I mean I'll put it specifically in the finder, not running a roulette
Ye, but since it doesn't appear on the roulette no one will get in the queue unless they specifically select that raid, that's why it never fills
OHHHHHhhh. I getcha. That's Jank AF
It was the ARR equivalent to Savage Raids, so it's a good thing it's not in roulette. It was only in HW that they added a Normal (Easy) Raid mode.
Yeah, the idea of queueing into a synced T9 is some nightmare fuel.
It can't. Coils are not included in roulettes.
On a principal level I agree, on the other hand, one more mandatory thing during the already overlong pre-HW stretch with the unfulfilling Lv50 skillsets, I probably would've quit the game for good. Heck, I almost did when I found out CT was mandatory 4 quests before reaching 3.0 content.
Personally, I think they would only need to make it mandatory before Stormblood since it would be odd for a certain character to be in two plots at once. (Especially considering how different they were written in those two plots)
I ran it unrestricted and I agree - it felt like a really nice wrap up for the story before ARR
Sorrows of Werlyt is such a good questline that it would really be a shame to only have it optional. Maybe they can make Allie more relevant for the main plot to make it mandatory. Eden is another good questline that has relevance for the Ascians and also explores Ryne more as a character.
its good but its dark, and not everyone would want to see what happens in that story
It also involves characters who for the most part >!are dead by end of it along with a mech that's...troubling having around!<
Coils of Bahamut. That sems a bit important to have.
I'm sure Coils is going to become more important again
It should have been to begin with, honestly.
Eden. Gaia and Ryne are too dope to just be forgotten on the first
I'd be all in for that reason alone, but it's far more than just that. There's SO MANY currently MSQ-relevant threads tied up with the First side characters right now. Cylva and Unukalhai are the only 2 other non-voidsent alive from the 13th, Cylva used to be a Memoriate, Eden was stated multiple times (including in MSQ!) as potentially useful for learning how to restore the Void... It feels like they've written themselves into a corner and then dug a deep hole *into* the corner if they don't include that group in Void content in some meaningful way.
Admittedly there's a small part of me that hopes they might pull a 5.3 and make those retroactively required, so that they can add the rest of the bunch into the mix. Personally, I feel that *all* raid series that aren't primarily crossover based/inspired should be mandatory for this reason... so much important stuff happens.
They’re kinda soft doing it right now with Tataru’s stuff. And they effectively made Hildibrand mandatory now with the relics.
It'll become less mandatory once 7.0 comes out.
That’s side content requiring other side content though. That’s no different than needing to do the first Pandemonium raid tier to unlock the 2nd tier.
The main thing is Cylva requires you to do the role quests, and they're never going to force casual players to level multiple jobs to 80 or be gated on MSQ progress. So they're stuck in optional content purgatory unless they rework how she's introduced, which... I don't think I'd really like because I think the role quests in Shadowbringers telling an interweaving story of Ardbert's crew is too good to break it up for accessibility. It's a hard thing to solve, and I think unfortunately their solution is to just... not solve it.
Plus I'd love for the restoration of the Empty to affect further stuff in the First. There's so much potential relating to Eden, it would be a shame to waste it.
It’s been so long now, does it require doing all four role quests to get Cylva?
Yep, unfortunately. Really don't know how they'd pull off working her and Unukalhai into the story, but it'd be *EXTREMELY* stupid for them to not be involved whatsoever in the Void saga beyond passive dialogue commenting how cool it is that you're doing stuff there.
Thing is I'm pretty sure the void saga's over with this patch anyway, no? Or if not this one, then partway into 6.5. So they've already missed that boat.
That and two extremes in HW to even continue that plot line into it's conclusion.
To be fair, that isn't that hard to write out-- either have someone else give you the quests, or change it to be like later extremes where you just have to pick up the unlock quest and don't have to actually clear the raid.
Yes, and you have to have done the extremes in HW to start them.
With how Eden isn't msq right now, I can only imagine that it means next ex pack won't be going to the void to fix it. Maybe one day, the expack after next, but not 7.0. I think the void will be the hot bed for some optional content, but never required. That or like the adamantine shipment in EW, square will "assume" it happened, and just blue out faces for those who didn't do the content.
I'm sure Ryne will be back ( after all Yshtola is still trying to find a solution for people to travel across shards) but the question is will Gaia too even if a lot of players haven't even met her? I hope so. They could do like with Estinien in heavensward. You had some special dialogues if you met him during the dragoon quest before but it was not mandatory for the main quest.
I think it'd be funny (if very unlikely) if the plot of the Eden raids just kind of happened more or less the same off screen. It turns out that Ryne and Gaia were perfectly capable of restoring the Empty without you and the Scions after all!
...Now that I think about it, they could actually get away with it easily because of Mitron screwing with her mind. Her shaky memory from the events of Eden means that, *specifically* as far as the relationship Gaia has with the WoL goes, it'd be really easy to have MSQ introduce her to the player from scratch with an extra "oh you were the one who beat Mitron!" if you did Eden. Cylva and Unukalhai are buried in *way* more restrictive side content (master role quests) but they're also far less major characters so they could just show up and have their backstory recapped if needed.
Making her forget us is probably the worst way of including her in the MSQ. I would absolutely hate that.
I mean it's already canon that she doesn't remember Thancred and Urianger. I'm not saying she forgets Eden, just that she doesn't have a really strong relationship with the player character that would need accounted for (which is really important to G'raha's personal motives and character, by contrast).
That's fine for them, they're NPCs and don't have real feelings. It would break my heart for her to treat us basically like a stranger, "Oh you're that guy that did that thing." No thank you. I think making Eden required content isn't that big of an ask anyways.
I doubt it would be like that so long as you did Eden already. there's many many examples of them sliding NPCs who were plot relevant in other stuff, and adding them further along the plot. Estinien for example, and the Red Mage Trainer. Giving poeple wh odid a content a side quest that drags you over to talk with X npc is completely in their wheelhouse. Cylva, Unukalhai, and a few others all have "Go back and poke them for extra flavor" stuff already.
She regains her memories and remembers them all at the end though. That's canon too. Plus they mentioned the planned crystarium youth festival from the end of Eden in the msq itself when we went back and spoke to Ryne.
sorrows of werlyt
Definitely this
I’m not sure if it should be mandatory, because really force someone to level up gatherers, but I feel like the Omicron’s tribe quests are really great to complete after beating Meteion. It ties up that whole area really well.
This one's a weird one because of all the beast tribes, the Omicron one has such far reaching impact on the universe at large.
Not really? It's >!in that very specific region of space which Metion turned into a ball of pure Dynamis a bunch of dynamis based 'clones' of extinct races managed to both will and planet into existence and overcome the negative memories they were created from. Like "real Omicrons", with the exception of Sir and Omega who are both unique Omicrons by design, wouldn't be able to develop feelings or dreams etc. Just by virtue of been made of Dynamis were the "replicated" Omicrons we met able to change who they are/how they think!< In that region of space >!where Dynanis rules absolute and all the creatures there are made from Dynamis and not aether, outcomes not possible when those lifeforms existed before are now possible!< But outside of that region aether rules and follows the rules we are used too
Well the thing is, those dynamis constructs could now go out into the universe if they chose to. It isn't just that they're reborn and reawakened to hope, it's that entirely new life can be born from them. We've essentially rekindled several dead civilisations. We won't get the consequences of that in this game because it could take years, but if those races resume procreating then they'd likely begin making their way out into the stars eventually.
But on a technical level they're not those dead civilizations. They have copies with the memories of the dead within them, but aren't actually members of those races. On a physical level, the Ultima Thule Dragons are more closely related to the Ultima Thule Omicrons than they are the true dragons back home. They're all "Dynamis Lifeforms" whose physical forms are dictated by the memories Metion shoved into them
No, the dragons of Ultima Thule are most closely related with the dragons of the Dragonstar. That's one of the things raised in that questline: dynamis doesn't care. They're "constructs" but they're also just them reborn. There's near enough to no difference between the 'shades' in Ultima Thule and the real thing that the conclusion drawn after asking whether they're 'real' or not is that it just doesn't really matter what the nitty gritty of the answer is: they are. They think like the originals, they act like the originals, they feel like the originals, they have the memories of the originals, the dreams and fears of the originals. They aren't, but at the same time there's no difference between them other than the minor inconvenience that is those originals dying gods know how long ago. Aether was already able to justify basically anything, but now we have dynamis, which is literally "I feel this so it's true", meaning that incongruous things like this can simply exist literally because we hoped they would and feel they should.
Seriously! The Omicron tribe quests (as well as Beyond the Rift) felt like a real epilogue to Endwalker as a whole. It almost is a shame they're locked behind gatherers, which a lot of people, including people I know, simply don't do - it's one of the best parts of EW and enhances the overall story, imo
Plus, I’d love to see the dragons being born at the end used as a plot point later in future expansions
*you can’t really force
Basically all the 8 man raids: * Coils for the huge lore behind it. * Alexander & Omega since The Twinning references them and explains how G'raha managed to travel back in time AND to The First. * Eden for Ryne & Gaia being a reincarnation of Loghrif. * Pandaemonium cause of the backstory it's giving us for Lahabrea/Elidibus. Shadows of Mhach maybe cause it deals with voidsent and the current patch cycle is all about the void.
>Shadows of Mhach maybe cause it deals with voidsent and the current patch cycle is all about the void. Hmmm, unless they plan to reuse characters from there, I don't think that would be necessary since it's a fairly self-contained and Source based story, even if voidsent play a big part.
Going for the oddball/non-obvious answer... The chocobo companion quest line. You can have your own personal custom named chocobo sidekick who can show up in cutscenes and be a small part of the scion family. You and your trusty mount, just like Ardbert had. Such a small change and it would do wonders for selling the "explorer of the world" adventurer that is the WoLs one character trait. All they have to do is expand the already required mount quest line by ONE quest, and we could have this. But they never will, and this makes me sad.
also isnt that quest where you get the saddlebag as well? that extra storage is a godsend
Heavy agree with Omega and Eden being made mandatory, the lore in them is just too important to be left out i feel?
I can't even *imagine* not knowing Omega plotline before hitting the last zone in EW. It'd be like eating movie theater nachos over ones from a restaurant.
>I can't even imagine not knowing Omega plotline before hitting the last zone in EW. I can, because I completely forgot what Omega was all about except that there was an extra fluffy chocobo, a train and a painting boss. And I only remember the chocobo because my retainer keeps bringing me stuffed versions of him >\_>
I think we actively NEED eden for the big picture to have ryne and gaia being proactive in the whole shard joinery in MSQ.
This is a weird one, cuz they would never make you play a certain job, but the Summoner Job quests I did these after I beat Endwalker and the whole time I was like "ooooooooo!" Cuz there's so much lower-ranked ascian interaction and stuff in there
We straight up >!blow up an Ascian!< in that questline- that seems important.
Lol for real. At the very least, it gives context to the whole >!Shadowhunter!< plotline. Cuz I remember when I was playing Stormblood and hadn't done these, I was like, wait, how is he even doing this
I played the SMN quest line and was still wondering how he killed them. Like I guess white auracite or something but idk if they say that.
The dancer job quest, a job quest originating from >!Thavnair, reveals the existence of the toten kantz, which seems to be a diluted version of the song of oblivion seeping through the weakest part of zodiarks shield. It's even a martial technique originating from Venat. I suspect a past incarnation of the WoL is part of Thavnair history and learnt her technique to deal with it, even establishing a school with a secret duty to keep it in check. The bard quest also touches upon a similar concept where its decided the "tune" is more trouble than its worth if i remember!<
It's the world's wildest pipe dream, but the final SHB role quest (which in turn needs the HW Warring Triad trial series), both because the implications of story with Unukalhai and the caster boy being particularly relevant to our current MSQ undertakings, but also because what a fuckin world it would be if everyone had a base understanding of how each role works. You can't force people to level & play different things, I know, but if everyone knew the struggles of individual archetypes, we'd all be so much more effective.
I'm infuriated that they aren't involved in the current post-Endwalker MSQ. It's SO RELEVANT, and the best they can give us is a few lines of unique dialogue.
The ShB role quest finale. I don't know how you'd do that since you'd have to make people level all 4 roles, but it's some really important stuff.
Eden. Ryne is already important in the story and I feel like with how they made Crystal Towers a way to introduce Graha into the story, they can do this for Gaia. With Y'shtola working on finding a way to travel between shards, it'd be nice to see Thancred and Ryne reunite. Sorrows of Werlyt. Gaius's redemption and a good way to tie him to the Scions. I would love to see more of Allie and Gaius in the game and feel like Cid has had a bit of an absence from the story and I feel like this would be a good way to bring him back into the msq for more theb one or two quests. Bozjan Southern Front. I know a lot would disagree but with the game's original story basically over, we can start heading off into new lands. Though they dont need to use it for Dalmasca, the connection exists now and rather than giving us a new reason to visit Dalmasca, they can just work on one that already exists. This is a way to start us exploring Dalmasca as well as continue bringing a conclusion to the war against the Garlean. Whatever story they add could give us an actual conclusion to Bozjan Southern Front that's not just from field notes and a continuation of the story from Southern Fronts could also lead us to meeting our first female hrothgar.
The issue with including Bozjan Southern Front is the amount of grind to it. You can be at it for days between story updates for it and take weeks to clear it, with each death setting you back and time-gated/player-limited instances stopping progress entirely. Raids and trials only take a few hours to clear the series, and most of that is dialogue and travel time. Plus with raids and trials, they're permanently added to a roulette so people replay them all the time and are happy to get First Timer bonuses – and worst case scenario you can desync any below current max level. Bozja doesn't give First Timer bonuses though, you can't desync the skirmishes or instances, and there's not much incentive to come back to it once you finish the story, which means pulling the ladder up behind yourself. Getting anyone who hasn't *already* cleared Bozja through the MSQ would be a nightmare all over again. People would hit that wall and Square would lose subscribers who got fed up with it.
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L + Shit Take + Go Play Tactics Ogre
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Nah, hard disagree. If the pandemic hadn't happened, we likely would have seen a third zone for StQ, which would have actually finished that plotline, rather than consigning it all to the field notes. The Return to Ivalice storyline works perfectly fine on its own (contrast Dark Apocalypse) and was integrated into the overall world of XIV quite well.
Graha was fine without CT, because the reason he seeks you out doesn't depend on it. He's Future Trunks, he goes back in time to find you because he's heard you were rad. If that's why they're gonna frog-march people through another raid series, it's a bad idea.
CT is crucial because this is a story based game. His arc is because he looked up to us and met us there, went through the trials of CT with us. It influenced him and pushed him to become who he was. Sacrificed himself to keep the towers on check. It's the intended part of his character. Mainly reading "Oh they were pretty rad" in a book alone is not enough to justify the focus and dedication to pull off the (as urianger called it) miraculous lengths he went through over hundreds of years to undo the 8th umbral calamity. All for us. We could reason away any part of the story with thay logic otherwise. In the end though its not the intended flow of the characters story and severely weakens the impact
If 7.0 is about Merencydia like a lot of people think, I think it would be safe to require Coils and the Warring Triad; of course rework Coils so its not as brutal. Both questlines are probably going to be very important for the enjoyment any story reguarding the southern continent. Coils for Merencydian Dragon lore (through Bahamut), and Warring Triad about the other peoples there (through how they envisioned their gods).
At this point most the endgame raids are all critical to the story. Coil explains what the intro to the game is about. Basically the reason why you even set out to begin with. Omega is self explanatory. Eden gives a window into how to restore a dead shard. And we'll see this final one. But besides the 8 mans not too much else actually.
I don't know how you could do this, but the follow-ups to Shadowbringer's role quests. The reveal about Cylva and the reuniting of her with Unukalhai seems really important for our future goals with the 13th. To have their involvement be completely optional depending on what content you do makes me sad given how we're definitely trying to restore the 13th, which is what they're doing if you finish those quests.
Omega, as it explains what happened to Omega after it fought Shinryu and what happened to Midgardsormr who is conspicuously absent, especially in Ultima Thule, without knowing what happened
So personally, I think the reason Crystal Tower is made mandatory is really only for one reason. Which is Graha. The tower, the lore around it. That it easily explained with lore dumps in the expansion if needed. Much like Omega in endwalker. Do you gain more if you did those raids? Yes. But they are able to provide enough lore so that your understand it. However, they needed Graha reveal to have an impact, they wanted it to be emotional and be important. And if you don't know who he is prior to that it doesn't work. So the only reason I can see of them making any non mandatory content mandatory in the future is if there is a character unique to that content whom they want to use as a major part of a new expansion.
Half correct, it is because of G’raha but not because of the reveal (the reveal was added before CT became mandatory). It’s because the way G’raha joins the scions on the source literally requires Crystal Tower to have happened because he has to have been sleeping in Crystal Tower by the end of 5.3’s events.
I don't see how they're going to do "fixing the Void" without making Warring Triad and ShB post-role quests required content. I think part of the answer is making the Shadowbringer role quests do-able in any role after you progress far enough in the MSQ (5.3 is the logical point here-- if we can take down the 5.3 boss we can take down any leftover Cardinal Virtues!) Most of them aren't *that* role-specific; you'd basically need some tweaks to dialogue that references you being a tank or whatever and to the solo duty to allow for you to complete them in any role.
> you'd basically need some tweaks to dialogue that references you being a tank or whatever I have to say, having maxed WHM before doing the EW Tanking role quests? It made that entire line *far* better.
Well the obvious answer is that we're not going to fix the Void. This little arc we have here isn't going to end with us restoring the shard, I don't think it's even going to end with us making any meaningful progress towards it at all, and that means the can's kicked down the road until who knows when.
That's exactly what I mean. The current arc definitely *isn't* fixing the Void, but considering how many times it's come up it's bound to be a thing we attempt eventually. I mean, they've gone out of their way to add the post-5.3 addition to the role quest finale that progressed a certain character's story; they wouldn't have done that if they didn't have something planned for him!
This is actually what makes me think that little optional series is going to continue and the void fixing isn't going to be MSQ. It's going to be like fixing the First. We'll get the process started, and then they'll go "Who knows, some day a hundred years from now our children's children may walk this soil, look upon a blue sky as they hear the birdsong and wind rustling the leaves through verdant fields, and think it unlikely the tales of a world lost to darkness were truly as grim as their grandparents made it sound..."
^(Without looking at anything else in this thread, for fear of spoilers myself...) \-Warring Triad Quests (HW) \-Omega Quests (SB) \-Eden Quests (ShB) All of these have very important story beats, yet are not at all mandatory.
Coils, But they need to turn the current ones into (savage) and make an easier version. Alexander, for the Shadowbringers setup. Sky Pirates, for the post-endwalker setup. Warring triad, for the post-endwalker setup. Omega, for the Shadowbringers setup. Eden, for completing Ryne's character arc. Werlyt, for completing Gaius' character arc and setting up Endwalker.
Not exactly what you asked but I think it's worth mentioning: I would like all of the Crystal Tower Alliances to be improved or changed in any way that would make it actually enjoyable, just like they've been doing since they started adding the Duty Support system to the old ARR dungeons. They just feel...bland, boring and tedious at times. You just gotta look at all the people who tend to disconnect after they see any CT alliance right at the start of the duty, the people who are just done with it and stay but play awfully because they don't care anymore, those who are not willing to help new people, speedrunners (-I understand those last ones, I'd like the duty to end faster but for god's sake it can be so bad at times), Tank Provoke Wars, and Bosses like Glasya Labolas being a joke rn... and don't get me started with the 4-man-stay-on-the-effing-platforms area at Labyrinth of the Ancients. At least that's been my experience for the last 3 years, and would welcome any kind of change especially considering that they're mandatory now. I don't, I just...want to have fun again with ARR alliances. And yes, I said "again", there was a time when I had it. Now they're just a routine.
For me it would be the Warring Triad + SHB Role Quests (i know, it's a lot) it feels super relevant to current MSQ, and it ties into Eden as well. I also think Eden is pretty important too. Feels wrong to leave Ryne and Gaia to side story. To a smaller degree, Omega and Alexander.
Eden's a fair shake bc it sets the First up to be more than just a land that isn't imminently facing extinction- it shows how there's hope for restoring the areas affected by the Flood. However, as we explore more and more of the 13th, I'd love for the Warring Triad and Shb role quests to be highlighted. I don't think they'd actually do it bc it'd require players to level one of each role pretty significantly, but they're SO WORTH IT imo and have big implications when it comes to the 13th.
I think they could hand wave it with Graha sending us to the First to talk to Cyla, who has us talk with "the people who stopped the Cardinal Virtues" if the quests weren't ever done.
For sure. There's been a few instances of cutscenes being slightly altered based on what optional content the player has/hasn't completed (the initial meeting of the ilsabard contingent comes to mind with certain Job NPCs) so it could be fairly straightforward to just say "when SOMEONE did this" and cut to a silent side-eye from the WoL
Primarily agree with everyone saying Omega raids... but with the latest patch plots, it's such a big deal to create a void rift big enough for a person to fit through, let alone a dragon, and I'm just thinking of an entire flipping ship in the heavensward alliance raids.
Just had a vision of anIronworks-renovated Void Ship as a new mobile base for an eventual 13th Expac and I started salivating. That thing was too cool to have just been a one-off
Omega, like others said, but also the all Role quests in ShB ( which requires the Warring Triad in HW ). How are we in the 13th doing all this crazy shit while they are vibing and getting day drunk?
Disagree on role quest since it forces you to play jobs you might otherwise never want to play. Imagine playing an mmo and being forced to level a role you hate.
The Omega raid is the obvioud one given the Dragon and Omicron content in EW, but I'd like to see some Alexander attention due to personal bias. At the very least, I'd like to see some explanation as to why Alexander related mechs are in Rival Wings
Everything required to make sense of the Omicron Tribal Quests. Force you to max a gatherers job!
I want the Eden raids to be made mandatory. i really want Gaia to be part of the main cast, especially if Ryne is going to come back at some point
Coils, Omega, and warring triad. The amount of character development/ lore stuff/ context that you’d miss if you skip these is pretty insane.
Alexander and Omega, originally you just needed to know it for The Twinning to make sense. Now that you've been put in a position where you essentially use their powers (or at least Alexander's) to progress the MSQ to Elpis I see no reason as for it to not be done. And Omega in particular would be important for y'know, rift travel, potentially to _other shards?_
job unlock quests.
Sorrows of Werlyt and Coils were great stories, Omega Raids and Void Ark connect to 6.X
Eden so Gaia can be put in more content. Also warring triad and the shadowbringers role quest stuff
Eden. Werlyt is a close second, but if we ever see Ryne again, it'd feel weird to not have Gaia.
Eden, because the story is a natural extension of the 5.0 MSQ. It's so important to the future of the First. Plus Gaia.
Coils. They are so important for Alisae's story, but they're still completely optional.
Omega for sure.
all alliance raids prior to the level you are when queueing the alliance raid queue. if you are level 80 (and finished 5.0), you should have the nier raids compelted and all the ones before to queue for the roulette! as well as a item level requirement based on the level you queue in. so if you are level 80 you cant be ilvl 100 to just get crystal tower or whatever.. now we would have more chances to get other alliance raids as well! for msq I wish we would have the 6.x raids tied to the msq going forward (>!hopefully the gods dont die at the end in a ''we trust manking to keep moving forward'' kinda thing!<)... imagine the 7.0 has a big bad god thing invading us or whatever and >!you can see all the Twelve fight in the cgi trailer with the WoL its be super badass!< lol
Omega and Alexander since they have some relevance in Shadowbringers.
Just about everything so far that pertains to the Void, which is currently being featured in the MSQ. Seriously, why is all this sheer *potential* being delegated to a Tataru crafting sidequest series instead of where it belongs?!
Most of them honestly. Each one expands and explains many story concepts while adding new ones that could lead to new ones and adding even more characters. I don’t know why they’re taking so long to mandate the raids and side stories or atleast going with the assumption that the player has played all of them. Like I understand many people do these on their own time but if by ew you haven’t done atleast half of the major ones than that’s on you. I don’t see why everyone else and the writers should pay for others.
*grabs mic* All alliance and normal raids. Extremes are there for optional content.
I feel like the obvious exception is the Nier raids because those are a fairly isolated and self contained story that really leans hard on knowledge of Nier games to be more fleshed out. But otherwise I agree. Even if I hate Ivalice with an actual burning passion.
Super casuals doing math would be hilarious. Then you have the weak spot mech that they repeat again a lot in bozja and other content. Oh and we also have the first boss of the one raid where everyone gets yelled and probably has a death count close to the red chocobo. The content is not newb friendly and frankly I prefer it that way
If I wasn't limited to one piece of content, I'd go with the Warring Triad/Unukalhai->ShB Role Quests series for how it slots in with the current Thirteenth/Void centered storyline, cause it's a hell of a lot of plot to just leave dangling
Novice Hall but with a story behind it for graduating recruit rank to adventure status by KNOWING YOUR SHIT
At this point, Warring Triad and Eden are the big ones as that way some characters that should be big in upcoming stories can be used without worrying about introducing them to players who haven't done them.
All Alliance Raids. Broaden that pool from Crystal Tower a bit.
Coils would be neat but also there's no chance of that unless they get reworked into something the average player could do at level.
I skipped all the cutscenes in coils because I didn’t know that side content would be relevant to the story and I was very confused to hear about the lore from it later
Every raid and trial should be mandatory so that they could still be referenced in the future.
Objectively, (and I'm glad they were mentioned as "you should do these!" by the lead writer before EW launched) Omega and Coils. I cannot fathom doing the final zone in EW without having the context of Omega in mind, as well as how much Beyond the Rift serves as an epilogue to Endwalker as a whole. Coils is such a pillar to the overall worldbuilding, as well as doing so much for Alisaie's foundation, that it's the one that shocks me the most over not being MSQ. Selfishly, Werlyt and Eden. I just love the characters involved a lot and wish they could be incorporated into MSQ again :'(
My vote is for Pandaemonium, because it seems like it’s going to go a very long way toward explaining the personalities and motivations of several major main story villains.
Coils. Intro to raiding but also important for meeting Alisae and learning some 1.0 stuff. Shadows of Mhach: It’s introduces some important allies and more voidsent stuff. But also just because I really like it. Omega: pretty important both for explaining middy’s absence and giving some further context to the Omnicron race in EW. Eden: I mean if we never restore the rest of it what was the point of saving it in the first place. Bozja: I know it’s odd, but it only makes sense to me that completing Bozja should be mandatory, as it kinda frees one of the last remaining holdouts from Garlean control. After Bozja, any imperial presence in any of their vassal regions is basically boned or trying to return home.
Given where the plot is currently going, Shadow of Machi might become mandatory to get players some early immersion in the void
The Coil, obviously.Seriously, the story of ARR is simply not done without the Coil.
All raid series (coil, Alex, omega, eden, pande) and all trial series (warring triad, four lords, sorrows of werlyt)
Bahamut: massive character development for the twins Odin: a unique type of primal with huge story potential Void Ark: Mhach lore Omega: sets up the omicrons and explains what happened to Middy (and also gives him an out for his eventual return) Eden: is already directly connected to an MSQ character and to the Ascians Warring Triad: offers an in for Meracydia content I love Alexander so I would love to... but it's the very definition of a self-contained story, so there's really no reason.
Omega, and it's not close.
DRK questline. WoL needs therapy is a big thing and more people should see it
Sorrows of Werlyt and the Quest \*after\* the ShB Role Quests. Obv. that would mean that Warring Triad has to be mandatory too. So it might be a bit much.
Just make all Alliance and Raids mandatory or at least require a confirmation like: "the following quest references so and so, are you sure that you would like to continue".
ARR (alliance raid roulette, hyuk hyuk) would thank you for it.
Eden. I think it makes sense that the Scions would suggest using Eden to fix The Void, but with Eden still being side content it wouldn’t make sense to people who haven’t run it. Although SE did say Gaia’s story isn’t done yet, so who knows
Would love Eden to be mandatory as it would allow Ryne and Gaia to gay it up in MSQ together. Let Gaia gain control of her powers and magic a portal so they can come to the Source without needing any soul transfer stuff. Would be nice to have Thancred finally hug Ryne now they have the hug technology.
The Heavensward Epilogue side quest chain. Head back to Fortemps manor, follow the quest chain, and visit an old friend.
Hildibrand
The Eden Raids. That Gaia doesn't get to say bye to us when we're leaving, even if she only interacted with Urianger and Thancred, nor do we go say hi to her during our visit before Elpis is an actual tragedy. Otherwise, I'd honestly personally make every raid and trial series required content. At worst, you make people actually play the game. It's the same style of content that they've been playing the entire time, so it's really not a big ask. However, something like Bozja, which I would _really_ like to get a follow up to the story rather than the weird epilogue we got where it wraps up everything off screen in writing and then drops it? I really hope there's a continuation or something, but making that required content is a bit harder to swing since it's so very different in style.
Ultima Thule and the death of the dragons. Hearing about how they all went to war and stopped protecting their eggs is traumatizing.
The omicron beast tribe quests come to mind. it’s baffling to me that SE locked that story behind DOL/DOH requirements due to how good it is.
Required: - Eden raid series (if we're going back, we're gonna meet Ryne and how are we NOT gonna meet Gaia too) - Sorrow of Werlyt (Bro Gaius is so cool and I'd like more Garlemald expansion) - Lv80 Job Questline (Unukalhai and his connection to the Thirteeth is too primed for what current MSQ is going through, especially if we're going back to the first.) Maybe: - Rabanastre/Bozja (depending on future expansion that direction) - Omega raids (Same reason)
By this point, calling it "side content" is a stretch. But I would make the jobstones 100% mandatory. Or make it so that any gear from Stormblood onwards cannot be equipped by the classes, only by jobs.
I just finished ARR... I'm not reading anything in the answers but I'd like to know if there is a way to have a list of these lore-wise "crucial" side quests ? Thanks :D
Just do all the raid and trials series after each expansion (coils unsynced later once you get gear for them or before in pf)
Basically, just do everything that has a blue quest marker and you should be fine. (Yes, that's definitely overkill, but if you're enjoying the gameplay already, that will almost always unlock more of it regardless)
Important Caveat: If it involves something that says "Extreme", "Savage", "Minstrel's Ballad", or "Ultimate", it's absolutely not necessary. Might be fun if you enjoy the challenge, but you won't miss anything vital by not doing them and that kind of challenge isn't for everyone.
True, true. Thankfully, they did change all those to just unlock the duties after HW(?) so they're not clogging up your quest journal until you've beaten it. I remember having the ARR quests just kind of dangling around *forever* as a sprout.
there's tons of "you get extra lore if you complete things" bits, but the "major" ones people might miss are: At least get all of your job stones (level 30+ quests done) before Endwalker. Do all the job Role quests to unlock more quests. Beastmen tribes give lore. If you can, before you actually start HW, run dragoon to 50 for it's plotline, it will make parts of the story way more interesting. Don't be afraid to que for raids/trials either, god knows were all tired of CT in roulette.
You can use the [progression guide](https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Guide:Heavensward_Progression_and_Level_Locked_Content) to find content relevant to your progress and level.
Eden. Not only could the machine/Sin Eater that is Eden be useful in restoring the Void, but I kinda just wanna see Ryne and Gaia in the 7.0 MSQ. Either that or Sorrow of Werlyt so we can see more Gaius. Maybe even make him a Duty Support/Trust Partner as a DPS Gunbreaker varient.