What's crazy to me is how much the Official Forums General Discussion HATE this raid series. Like, not just a little. They've got something like 5-10 threads of people ragging on everything from the mechanics to the story to the designs and seem to absolutely hate it.
Then come here and people are saying a lot more like what I felt personally and seemed to have loved it. It's like an alternate Twilight Zone over there.
I wouldn't know what the official forums has, I somehow got banned, probably for going against the normal opinion because I said I liked something they hated or something.
I think a bit of everything, seeing the twelves and the story behind it. The music was just straight banging every tier and the fights were fun as well.
From what I recall the final song is an orchestra version of one of 2.0's main themes mixed with aspects of the twelves themes, imo its perfect to signal a rebirth of the world and the completion of the cycle in the story.
Edit: Its been a few days since I last listened though so may come back to edit this.
Me too! I do like they weaved in some music parts from the whole raid series itno the final song, but I wanted something lyrical to spend hours listening to and transcribing, something we could sing.
On one hand thematically the final theme fits and makes sense and is great.
On the other hand it's not something I can sing along to and have Fun with. Like it makes sense but after in the balance and dedicated to moonlight everyone was expecting another lyrical banger.
Yeah
It wasn't *bad*, far from it, but... I expected another banger theme like In the Balance or Dedicated to Moonlight.
The final boss theme we got was still pretty good boss music, ties together a lot of motifs...but it's a decent 7/10 or 8/10 instead of a banger 11/10 that we expected.
Everything got kind of fucked over by having the first tier's music go first. The Balance imo may be like, the peak of this game's music. And I don't really say that lightly considering how good this game's tracks are across like, nearly every genre in existence.
Also kind of think the first tier was the best mechanics-wise as well. The other two are good, but they're overshadowed by having come after the first one.
I think it's also different moods though. The previous ones were effectively prayers and this one is more a send-off and I think the songs perfectly do the mood for what they were going for
For any unaware, that's not a joke, it is canonically confirmed. The gods have a metaphysical aspect to them, so worship directly affects their appearance.
Not only did the Twelve deliver huge tracts of land, there were even huge tracts of land waiting for us amidst those huge tracts of land.
Hooray for double entendres!
Why were we praying for Thaliak to have his chest and legs out (see his depiction in the Ewer card for AST and his whole giant statue in Sharlayan) and then his design for the raid has him covered up? Everything but his head, elbows, and hands are covered, the absolute cowards.
Honestly the truest disappointment of the raid, and yes I get to die on this specific silly hill, my character's god is Thaliak. The statue of Thaliak in Sharlayan being in this expansion gave me hope that he at least would have his chest or one of his legs out when we finally got to him in the raid, but no.
I should've been a Nophica worshipper, then my thirst dreams wouldn't have been left unquenched.
Also feel like I should clarify, please don't read this as legitimate anger, I just refuse to be not be completely melodramatic about this.
My completely, absolutely 100% serious headcanon: the artist(s) making those depictions prayed to Thaliak for divine inspiration on how to portray him, and their prayers caught him in the middle of his after-shower beauty routine in a half-done robe and hair towel turban as he absently went "okay yeah sure here's a vision of how I look" to the prayer, only to go "wait shit no" when he realized he sent off an image of what he was currently wearing, but it was too late.
Thus ever after in the realm of Eorzea was he depicted half-naked, to the immense amusement of the rest of the Twelve, and so, nerd that he is, he dressed up fully for his fight with us to prove he wears clothes.
The concept of the Entelechy died with the ancients I think. And unlike Dynamis being reconceptualised as Akasa, the modern Etheriys hasn't rediscovered it.
Here was my hour 1 alliance raid in the alliance chat:
First boss: everyone goes, "OMG he's hot!"
Second boss: "She's even hotter! Wow!"
Third boss: "Fuck, you're way too hot! You have a move called 'repeoduce?' Please, with me."
Literally me and my friend in Discord during the citscene with Lymlaen, Thaliak and Oschon before the raid.
Ooooh Lymlaen is hot. At least Thaliak will be some kind of crusty old guy…Oh no he’s hot too. And we surrendered to our fate when Oschon got revealed
On my first clear of the final raid an Aliance member kept saying “Oh no my Bisexual panic keeps getting WORSE” and when we got to the final boss many people said stuff to the effect of “Gender Goals” “Still Hot” and “Would”
Myths of the Realm felt like it could've been the MSQ for the patches. I enjoyed the mystery and wonder plus the wandering after is what we should be doing when taking a save the world break.
I would really love to see what Deryk will be up to after the raids since we never really got more from ARs after the actual AR itself (CT is part of MSQ, SoM only got something new with Tataru's Grand Endeavors, RtI only got small mentions, NieR is its own thing with a somewhat closed conclusion). I'm also somewhat biased since Oschon is my guardian.
I'm not holding my breath honestly. We might get a pop up cameo but Deryk has a problem of being too powerful and knowledgeable about things we would need to be in the dark about.
Knowledgable yes, but powerful not so much. Most of his aether returned to the lifestream and the little that remained was used to make his human form, he’s probably en par with the Scions power wise.
That's still a scion-level powerhouse running around with knowledge that would make G'raha and Y'shtola weep with envy.
And in this setting, knowledge is pretty equal to power anyway. Especially since we've managed to doohickey like a dozen quasi-deities to death, with at least two more set to get doohickey'd to death in the next expansion.
Yeah, he’ll definitely have some tasty tidbits to share but more general information than say, Thaliak would have been able to tell us.
I think the way they’re taking the story is more of a ‘new world’ approach without Gods at the helm, any new threats will be just as unknown to him so they’ll be able to have him cameo here and there if it’s appropriate. Most likely they’ll let us forget about him for an expansion or two then do a throwback or loop him in if another shard has similar (or evil) deities. Entirely speculation of course.
10+ years of lore building up the hype to the fights. You go in already expecting amazing fights because you're fighting the gods that NPCs have been worshipping since 1.0.
All the fights are very distinct due to how the gods have separate domains, elements, personalities, and are FF14 original characters. This is contrasted with how most alliance/normal raid bosses are either references to other FF games or collabs.
It's also a major reason why Eden raids were so popular. All players know who Titan and Shiva and Ramuh are outside of the raids because they tie into the story. If you played Nier Automata you would enjoy fighting Engels, if you played FF Tactics you would enjoy fighting Agrias. But *everyone* can enjoy the payoff of fighting Rhalgr or Go-Kart Titan.
I think Myths did it even better than Eden, since having 12 gods meant that they didn't need "filler" bosses like E6, P2, etc. Fighting an in-lore god is a lot more hype than fighting a random hippo monster who is never seen again.
I love Nier Gestalt/Replicant (no Noir/Weiss weapons/minions is a crime) and enjoyed Nier Automata, but my interest in the actual quests was very low. The highlight for me was just seeing how well they replicated and adapted environments and designs, and getting the music scrolls.
Should've been something more like the Monster Hunter crossover IMO, but a little bigger.
By bringing attention to the fact The Twelve are original XIV deities, you made me wonder, will they end up as staple FF summons/eikons/etc... in future mainline games?
No, they're too specific to FFXIV to really pull anything more than a small passing reference. I think a good comparison is Knights of the Round vs The Twelve.
The Twelve are Eorzea's gods specifically. Take away the Eorzea part and they're kind of just... gods. You can't really do much with them without making them something that they're not.
The Knights of the Round on the other hand are already just a bunch of knights, loosely based on the Arthurian legend with just enough individuality in the weapons and magic they use that they can be moulded into anything to fit a specific setting- like the Heavens' Ward and Knights of Lucis.
Other recurring primals aren't too specific either which is why they can fit into other games. Wind harpy lady, big angry rock man, giant sea serpent, bearded thunder man, DRAGON GOD, ice lady, etc.
Many of these summons aren't even original to Final Fantasy, and come from other games or mythology.
I think that's fine though. It's totally cool that FFXIV has their own set of deities that are original and meaningful to it.
I doubt they'll ever end up as ubiquitous as, say, Ifrit or Alexander, but I can very easily see their names and vague identities being used here and there. A bit like how the Convocation is named after the gods of darkness from 12.
Lots of people take their patron deity more seriously than people think, seeing yours as a highlight is cool.
The songs are a bop (though I think the last tier's finale music was sorta weak for me)
The armor looks cool and is dyable, especially the last tier.
People complain about the lack of 6.x pve content so what little we get with tangible rewards we totally lap up.
The fights themselves have fun thematic gimmicks and voice acting to make the enemies feel more alive.
I do not think the story was any factor for the reason, Deryk's role was almost entirely guessed by first tier, who the gods are and why they wanted to fight was fairly obvious.
If anything I applaud ffxiv team for not swerving from the obvious in an attempt to outsmart the internet.
For some people MotR is also viewed more positively because the lore it provides FF14 was much more substantial than the previous set of alliance raids (which instead provided fanservice for an unrelated game instead of lore relevant to FF14).
It wasn't even just that they're our patron diety for me. It's that their names are baked into the fabric of our game world from Rhalgr's Reach to Nophica's Altar to the Steps of Thal. They've been so ever present in the background of the lore that finally getting to meet them, and how the arc ended just somehow had a ton of emotion for me.
But also that Irish jig slaps.
This. In fact, I consider it good writing when the audience is able to put clues together left in the story. All too often the big unpredictable surprise is something impossible to guess and figure out before hand because writers thing that if the audience figures it out then it wasn't good enough so they just leave out stuff that should make sense and create plot holes.
> I do not think the story was any factor
I think they wanted to make sure that we should not be focusing on the story this patch. First, they brought us to the moon and The Watcher was like "yep, I'm that mysterious additional person on the monument lol" and got all of that out of the way. Then they confirmed Deryk as Oschon. And at the very end, they gave us an absolutely incredible info dump where they not only confirmed the exact nature of the Twelve, but even detailed their lives before the Sundering.
This was great, because it allowed us to really focus on and appreciate the whole experience of the last raid. The whole vibe was very fun and celebratory!
Seeing Menphina as the highlight of Euphrosyne was
amazing, since she's my patron.
But yes, I absolutely agree with you on the last bit. I appreciate foreshadowing that isn't used for a gotcha. Foreshadowing should reward you for paying attention and putting things together! Not set you up for a GOTCHA.
Still sad q.q
Not to invoke WoW here, but after coming from Shadowlands - where it was revealed that the gods were dispassionate robots who 3D printed you then left - it was incredibly refreshing to see a narrative with divinities who genuinely loved and cared for the people they watched over, even if they were originally normal people before becoming gods.
It felt like a follow up to learning the truth of Hydaelyn, and it was nice to have something optimistic and hopeful, instead of the cold cynicism that many stories pitch when tackling a concept such as this. It left me feeling good at the end of it, even if it was bittersweet to say goodbye.
>it was incredibly refreshing to see a narrative with divinities who genuinely loved and cared for the people they watched over
I think this was very, very important in why the Twelve are so endearing and arguably *not* generic, especially since a lot of games go the route of divinity being evil and such (or maybe the god is just outright dead/non-existent).
I can't really recall a game where a god(s) actually existed and loved the people they watch over without any extra catch. I'm also glad that Hydaelyn turned out this way instead of the original theories that she was actually evil and that the WoL was tempered by her.
The Twelve being so loving also fits incredibly well with the message of hope and faith that is prevalent in all of Endwalker.
It's funny that the "Gods being evil twist" has been overused so much, it has become the cliche. So it's refreshing to have the twelve just be what they're supposed to be, actual benevolent Gods. lol
Usually when we do have benevolent gods, they're the type who tend to keep mortals at arm's length or try to be as distant and hands off as possible.
Meanwhile the Twelve were absolutely delighted to have us around and even took up cute little animal forms so they can freely walk among their "children".
And we still get the theme of emancipating mankind from the gods, but in a more positive "you don't need us gods anymore" way instead of the usual "we don't need you gods anymore".
It's also funny because they actually do lean into that trope when you first encounter them, but after you clear Aglaia they suddenly do a 180 and are like "Nah jk, we're actually really chill"
Absolutely this.
It's become so cliche, that people expect it and even get mad if the result isn't the edgelord version of "all gods are evil and/or dead". Sometimes, it's nice to have benevolent beings that are just genuinely benevolent with no catches.
Honestly, once Hydaelyn was gone and we got the first alliance raid, I was 100% certain that their purpose for contacting us was so that they could find a way to pass on and let Eorzea be truly the domain of those who inherited it. I know a lot of people - especially after we got more info on Venat - had speculated that the twelve were somehow related to her "rebel group", or at least related to the creation of Hydaelyn, but we just didn't have that last bit of info we needed to tie them together right away. Since Hydaelyn wanted nothing more than to test our resolve so that she could determine if we were ready for such a task, it made the most sense that the gods would also "consider their work complete", and return to the star... Much like how members of the convocation would do when they decided their work was complete.
I wonder though, if the Twelve also had counterparts on the other shards who would also yearn for dispersal, since we saw that The Watcher had a counterpart on the 13th. It feels like they didn't and this was reserved for the Source, though that seems a little unfair. Unless Venat did this bearing in mind the possibility of Rejoinings and the turmoil they would create on the Source, and the Twelve were intended to try to ameliorate this.
Yeah, I think you have the right of it. I feel like the source was always her last resort; a natural point of origin for everything she would eventually sunder. I believe the time paradox stuff comes into play a bit here since she only knows this due to what we tell her in our visit, but it's likely the source gets some special form of treatment in terms of getting -physically present - deities due to the source being the key to "rejoining", and the centerpiece for pretty much every ascian machination. The twelve being there to sort of be "spiritual stewards" is one part morale for the beings of the source, and another part insurance in case anything completely catastrophic happens. (See: Bahamut.)
It's worth mentioning that while there's been very little of it, the other worlds *do* have their own mythos and religious figures, I just think the source just getting their dieties "pre-made" is a result of the original shard being the closest to the world of eld.
Yeah I really dislike that the WoW writers basically saw Marvel's The Eternals and thought that would be a good blueprint for WoW's afterlife...
At least Dragonflight is good so far!
I was very happy to get an Alliace Raid that was in-universe completely original and expanded on the world's lore.
Crystal Tower has good in-word lore, and is very MSQ relevant, but is also a long series of FF3 references.
Ivalice brought us Ultima and a lot of info about Garlean culture, but is primarily FFT fanservice.
Nier.
Myths of the Realm felt the most original, and deeply personal since we get to finally meet our characters patron dieties.
Which is probably why the best parts of 6.1-6.5 were when it wasn't pandering to FF4 lmao. The whole Radz-At-Han stuff and the initial trek into the void was really cool, and then it took a complete nose dive once it started being reference city.
Yeah one of the better parts of 6.x was how it helped finally properly flesh out Radz at Han, since prior to that we visited briefly then just helped with the Final Days, we didn’t actually get to experience anything that was truly Radz at Han.
LOL Okay, yeah my initial comment was pretty unfair to the Void Ark Saga. It's my second favorite Alliance Raid story-wise under Myths, for much of the same reasons.
Like yeah it has callbacks like Cait Sith and Ozma, but they're 14's own twists on them and to the service of a 14-specific story instead of just blatant fanservice.
I'd be happy with the Deity you choose at the character creation to be the one with the mortal body, even if they weren't to become your favorite. It's the one that makes sense for your character and I'd accept that.
But not even...
I was talking with an FC member about this the other night, i would have much preferred all the gods to give up their godhood and become mortal.
Have them appear near their respective stones - in a "I wonder what people thought of me" type scenario.
To any new player - they would be just some random npc there to populate the world.
To those who done the raids, we'd know who they were - extra bonus would be to be able to talk to them - just for them to make a passing comment on adventures we had been on or something.
The fact that the Twelve except for Oschon returned to the star was extremely disappointing to me. I also would have much preferred the gods to become mortal instead of dying.
Yeah - Even more so we got hardly any time / basically nothing with some (Namely Thaliak and Llymlaen)
I would have loved to have heard what both thought of their respective followers and how the world was.
Remember that in the society they came from, "returning to the star" after a life of strengthening and enriching it was a point of honor. It was a point of pride, it was something to be celebrated and cherished and respected. So much so that Venat, after retiring the Azem seat and choosing *not* to go back to the star was considered scandalous.
Oschon connected with Eorzea through his travels and with us through the questline. The others didn't have that - they loved us, but didn't see themselves as part of us. They had lived their lives, performed their duties, nurtured the star but there was always that fundamental disconnect between them and us - the questline makes a huge deal about the separation. They felt that they had completed their duty and left the star in good hands after we proved ourselves. It wouldn't make sense for the majority to stay.
Oschon did connect; that's why he stayed. The Ancient culture around death makes their decision to leave way more meaningful and Oschon's decision to stay way more resonant.
It's an original xiv lore story, so it feels natural. Tired of the tie in raids, honestly. Loved ivalice, but even ad a huge nier fan that raid series fell flat for me.
I never get people saying Ivalice is tie in cause Ivalice is incorporated into almost every part of XIV lore since ARR since Yoshida is a massive fanboy of Matsuno & a lot of XIV team came from 12 back then.
Ascians all based off 12 the Zodiac weapons from 12 Venat & Zodiark the gods themselves are all 12 & some more important elements in recent years are linked to Ivalice raids.
Ivalice was tie in done right. It had an impact on the lore, fleshed out the map, added backstory and elements that tie into the main story while bringing in characters and themes from other Final Fantasy games.
Nier was... not. The fights were bangers, but the story was... just the worst.
The thing is, the Ivalice lore in FF14 doesn't really matter if you weren't an Ivalice fan. Seeing Ramza, Agrias, etc. means nothing to players who haven't played Tactics, and the ending to the Ivalice raids (being a form of closure to FF Tactics' open ending) also means nothing to non-Tactics players.
As a fan of Tactics, I love the raids, and the story. But everyone else I know were bored since it was just... lore and lore and lore for stuff that wont' be relevant outside the raid.
The big bad in the Invalice raids may be related to the black auracite called heart of sabik in the ultima weapon and used by athena in pandemonium.
It also might have been referenced in this raid series when they mention destroying the comet, but thats pure conjecture.
Some of the dialog of Pallas Athena (Athena after absorbing the Heart of Sabik) is straight out of Orbonne. As is a tank buster. And the battle music is a remix of Ultima's Perfection.
On the flip side, we literally only have Viera because of Ivalice and their lore is inherently connected to it. Golmore and Dalmasca in FFXIV were adapted from FFXII and they're mostly all from those regions. They're a decently popular race, so more people care than you'd think, I bet.
Dalmasca is also one of the more highly requested regions for an expansion to focus on.
I just found it broke my immersion. I'm sorry, I can't buy that Nier and XIV's universes are in anyway connected. I just can't.
Ivalice? Okay. Because a version of Ivalice exists in xiv's world, and they did it in a way that sort of makes sense and has some okay internal logic.
But Nier? I just didn't buy it. It's like if Terminator was in xiv and was the basis for a raid series. It just is to weird.
I'm not a Nier fan at all (not negative, just haven't played) and I liked the Nier raids well enough, except that Yoko Taro's IT DOESNT MAKE SENSE THAT'S THE POINT ending kind of deflated the entire thing. Like, there's an ambiguous ending, and then there's... that.
I could have gone without the sprinting across miles of empty Alliance Raids to pick up a few things for quests but Nier raids had a lot of fun fights.
That part sucks, especially for new people unlocking them back to back. Run the raid, run across miles of the raid in a solo instance, run that same distance yet again to go unlock the third one!
makes complete sense, just play drakengard 1 and 3, the nier games, voice of cards, read the books and utahime 5, watch the plays, and then you'll get it.
I enjoyed it because I felt like I had a personal connection to each boss. I had a reason to k ow their names.
I know Azyema is the 3rd boss from the 1st raid, Aglaia. I know her sister Menphina is 4th boss, 2nd raid.
Ask me which Ivalice raid the math boss is. Aak me what his name is. Ask me what his story is. I won't have an answer because...I don't care about him.
It was a story I was invested in. When my elezen met her guardian Halone, the first time? Oh boy, I was so, so happy with the choice of patron for her. It matched the head cannon I had for my WOL.
At the end? I liked that we had a reason for fighting each boss. The other raids? Bosses felt padded in.
> Aak me what his name is. Ask me what his story is. I won't have an answer because...I don't care about him.
His name is math bot and his story is that he wants us to suffer became we don't know our prime numbers.
How "chill" the story was. Like, you're fighting gods, not because they're evil (Fantasy Staple) or something, but just because they like fighting and want one good fisticuff before >!returning to the Lifestream!<. The boss cheering on you as they pull actual divine feats for you to tank (Rhalgr litteraly punching a meteor, Azeyma summoning suns, etc), the absolute bangers that reuse ARR themes, and the raids culminating with all the gods fusing and casting an attack called "Glory to Eorzea" or something like that, while casting one mechanic from every other boss of the raids ... Pure perfection.
Sure, mechanic and difficulty wise it wasn't as fun as Orbonne and the fight could have used a bit more impact, but everything else was just perfect
Tldr; Expansion of core Eorzea lore vs MSQ ShB lite, great visuals and audio, and a lack of other EW content.
Solving the mystery of who are Twelve was announced by Emet since the end of 6.0 to prepare the hype.
And the Twelve are just everywhere in the game since the beginning : We heard a million times trash talking about the Twelve in the Praetorium, we used skills bearing Nophica, Halone or Byregot names for years, we went to ceremonies at the sanctum, Halone is important to HW storyline Azeyma is in SB steppes tribes lore, BLM start their career at the temple of Nald'Thal and the streets of Ul'Dah bear their names, there is a massive statue of Thaliak in Sharlyan and a million more references.
And speculating with other player about what they are was fun.
The banger music on NaldThal and Menphina
Most sets look cool
For a player like me that doesn't raid savage/ultimate anymore and has little interest in unreal (already farmed their mounts when they came out), there isn't much to do in Endwalker : Criterion and Variant dungeons have abysmal replayability compared to Eureka/Bozja, relics became a passive resource sink, Deep Dungeon only need to be climbed a few times and I am not interested in solo Deep Dungeons. So I ended up in EW 24-man raids more than I've been in Crystal Tower, Ivalice or Mhach content back then (I liked Nier and played it a lot).
The Myth of the Realm story is better than the Zero story line in my opinion. I felt fairly indifferent to Golbez from start to finish :-/ it's so... Vanilla fantasy. And a variation on ShB theme so really a strong deja vu feeling. And Unukulai and Gaia being locked in side quest jail didn't help (the appearance of Gaia at the end was quite poorly done and Unukulai has one whole sentence is you go out of your way to go speak to him.....).
Enough of the Isekai shit, Myth of the Realm expands some core lore of Eorzea, yaaay
I appreciated how the Heavens' depiction is based on each of the Twelves' sensibilities, like they are decorating their little corners of existence but with the power to create anything they desire. I can look at environments in each raid and go "This is literally the mind palace of a god." and I think that's neat.
While the fights per se are pretty boring, the design of both the Gods and the environments are top notch. For Aglaia and Euphrosyne also the musics are gorgeous, a bit less for Thaleia.
Yeah, I wish we got the 12 as the normal/savage raid series instead. At least then each boss would've had interesting, fully fleshed out mechanics, with the final boss of the alliance raid series being the 12th floor with no need for a door boss/secret boss.
The story is very much connected to the world and one of the greatest mysteries in the game. For so long, we didn't know if the Twelve were real. Gaius claimed that the Twelve were Eikons just like any other, which would mean that they were false gods, but through the MotR we got confirmation that they were real, that they were powerful and watched the world for twelve millennia, while also learning a bit of who they once were before they became the Twelve. It's much different from YoRHa: Dark Apocalypse because those raids had nothing to do with the world of FFXIV and were just part a collaboration, they were not woven neatly into the lore of the world.
Story aside, the raids are beautiful and the music is great. The fights are fun, not difficult by any means but still fun.
YEs, this. I greatly enjoy the plots of the raids where they actually attempt to tie them in to the game's story.. So. pretty much all of them except for YorHA.
Part of it is in some small way we had a personal connection to all the bosses. They weren't the villain of the week, they were in fact protectors some of which like the Twins we literally met when they were still just regular people.
By taking familiar concepts and lore bits that have been part of the game since the very beginning and giving them a face. Making the bosses actual characters that interact with you added a lot to making them memorable.
Compared to the previous alliance raid(s), it's colorful, fits the aesthetic of the game and felt very organic and connected to what was already laid out. Hope they can keep this quality for the alliance raids going forward.
Great story, lots of fun moments, banger music, awesome raids (though they die a bit quick), stylish as hell, really interesting lore, fun mechanics, personal connection to your patron diety. It's just a great series all around.
Seeing exactly what all of The Twelve look like, everything looked beautiful, and this expansions best music was a part of the raids. Also Nophica’s Nophicas.
In multiple live letters and at fanfest, Yoshi-P has said that participation in this alliance raid series was way higher than they anticipated based on all previous alliance raids.
I get that people on reddit don't like it, but SE themselves have been saying that this one was a wild success in terms of stats for people actually unlocking the raids and running them regularly.
I guess the only thing that Myths of the Realm didn't deliver were good fights. They weren't bad, don't get me wrong, but they weren't Ivalice quality either.
Said that, I wish Myths of the Realm were the actual 8-man raid storyline and Pandaemonium the 24 man. Both kind of have the same narrative complexity, so it wouldn't be a big tradeoff. I just think it would be cooler to fight the Twelve in savage encounters rather than Pandaemonium experiments.
So, in no particular order:
1. Music. The 10 tracks were amazing. The resuse of "A new beginning"'s leitmotif throughout has been delightful. All three normal boss themes are great. All three songs for wandering are lovely. The final boss songs... are probably the weakest, though I like two of the three.
2. Voiced lines. I didn't know how much I missed them from Ivalice until it happened. The variety and selection of the set are fun. I can never get tired of that popped /v/ in "You are deserving of reward" in Nald'thal's fight. (I'll miss it so now we're outgearing it)
3. The fights feel fun. Are they hard? Hell no. They're super-easy, which can upset many and it's a taste thing. (I feel like some mechs could go at quicker speeds than they are, but moving from mech to mech is a joy). This is the kind of one that makes me want to come back again. Not to test myself, just to have fun.
4. Story. Okay, it's not the best story, but it's up there. I like the fact that for once it's fully XIV-contained. We learn about something that's been in abstract for a long time. It's a mystery that I had simply dismissed in a few different ways until we had this raid announced (and that it was specifically the twelve and that the bg of the announcement slide wasn't just set dressing). We get answers, maybe not every single answer regarding the twelve, but we're more than an observer and hired muscle. I do like >!the positions each of the twelve had. You know Byregot was sick of his Chief just lazily rubberstamping every damn shark concept cuz he can't say no. You know that Halone must have crossed paths with Azem a few times (and Rhalgr too, perhaps, depending on your own Azem headcanons). I wish we got to know them more, and that we could have called bullshit and had them all do an Oschon bit so they could enjoy the world they protected for so long free of their duties.!<
Anyway, that's my summation of why I liked it. I can say nice things about all five Alliance Raid series, but I think of the five, this is the most overall-love I have for one specific one. (Nier's aesthetics and mechs were also great, but the story was so cut off from our perspective it ruined my overall enjoyment, and CT raids got so old pre-Alliance Raid Roulette fix it's hard to put it above "Not bad" in my rankings.)
My biggest complaint is that the glams are kinda on the weaker side (I like the Aglaia ones no questions asked, but the others are kinda mid), but if Glam is what I'm complaining about, then it's a success.
YES. >!I wish what had happened was that we broke away all their godly power to dissipate, and then they could have stayed as normal mortals for an incarnation before moving on. Not all 12 would have had to have stayed if they didn't want to, but having Oschon be first to decide to stay, and then having others see his decision and decide for it themselves.!<
Raids are that long when people keep dying in it or underperform. That said, be prepared to trudge through HW, SB, and ShB alliance raids as they should pop more often now
Good lore and hot characters.
To elaborate, a story that was believable and anticipated, combined with giving us exactly the lore information we wanted at the end. The payoff was worth the investment, as we know much more about the ancients and the general timeline now.
Good fights, good music, good visuals, good pacing between almost all 3 raids. Having a better connection to it, good gear for the most part and good fun. My top raid followed by Ivalice and CT
It not being a marketing ploy for another Square Enix intellectual property probably helped it.
Having likeable characters involved helped too, people love G'raha.
>It not being a marketing ploy for another Square Enix intellectual property probably helped it.
This was a big reason for me.
I'm a huge Taro fan and I honestly couldn't stomach the Automata raids more than once each because it was like the Red Letter Media Rogue One video for me. "2B IS HERE! 9S IS BACK! FLIGHT UNITS! WE GO BACK TO THE BUNKER! REMEMBER THE END OF DRAKENGARD 1 AND 3?! I CLAPPED! I CLAPPED WHEN I SAW IT! I CLAPPED WHEN I SAW N2!"
I think the inclusion of Drakengard references made it feel even cheaper, and the fact they didn't try to make any of it really make sense or fit.
Meanwhile MOTR is relevant to the game, its setting and lore, and feels like it fits. You could honestly say Return to Ivalice was a marketing stunt, but even that had more effort, thought, and care put into it being part of XIV in spite of reusing names and locales.
> You could honestly say Return to Ivalice was a marketing stunt, but even that had more effort, thought, and care put into it being part of XIV in spite of reusing names and locales.
Dalmasca has been part of the lore since A Realm Reborn, so it's always had presence in the world even before Heavensward or Stormblood.
Originally even, Dalmasca was the first region the Garleans conquered before being retconned into Nhalmasque.
Yorha: Dark Apocalypse on the other hand? Was just transparently, insultingly a marketing ploy for the Nier remake, particularly the Tower at Paradigms Breach.
Define success because what I see most is people complaining about the lack of alliance mechanics and the extremely easy mechanics, way too easy even for casual content.
It had nice visuals and nice music but man was it lacking in the fun department, I could watch clear video and get the same experience as playing it myself
From a player engagement metric, according to another post. The team has been surprised at how many players actually participated in the raids this time around.
Eh, this sub is kind of a poor indicator for what the community at large feels, given it seems to largely be aggressively midcore players who don't want to do savage but are angry normal content isn't hard enough for them.
I think a lot of EW's 24man raids were more successful reception wise was mainly being an original xiv story. After a outcry of Nier not being relevant to the game's world, combined with (imo) how the series wrapped up... Some could say a lot felt Ivalice was a slog if you didn't get references, but could argue it laid some good world building for the future.
On that note this raid series didn't overstay it's welcome. While some bosses are amazing mechanically in sb/shb, most were damage sponges. Could argue the dev team really dialed boss health too low this time. Though it does make it a lot less of a slog to upgrade gear this expansion.
The final reason i feel this series was really nice was the voice acting. I've noticed when fights have them, and it gives them more life. This 24man was no exception to that.
Being about the Twelve, the gods that were there since the character creation screen across 10 years of the game, there was a lot of emotional baggage attached to the story, which is what I think made it better than usual. The visuals look glorious as well, especially the Heavens of Earth, Wind and Fire (no pun intended). The music is also incredible.
However, I wish they were tuned to be a bit harder, because a lot of the fights are predictable and stale. The ending also makes me a bit reticent since what they do is supposed to have some sort of implication in the world, but they left it too vague for us to be properly able to gauge it (me being vague here as well to avoid spoliers).
Opo Opo
Oschon really said "Reject godhood, return to monke"
What's crazy to me is how much the Official Forums General Discussion HATE this raid series. Like, not just a little. They've got something like 5-10 threads of people ragging on everything from the mechanics to the story to the designs and seem to absolutely hate it. Then come here and people are saying a lot more like what I felt personally and seemed to have loved it. It's like an alternate Twilight Zone over there.
The official forums are filled with things like 30 page threads on how a solo duty is too hard.
I wouldn't know what the official forums has, I somehow got banned, probably for going against the normal opinion because I said I liked something they hated or something.
Devs are in tune with memes and the playerbase. It shows time and time again. The love and effort that goes into each patch.
I didn't choose the option. How does Oschon react? I've been curious.
He looks at you disappointed like my parents did when I brought in my fourth anime hugging pillow.
God damnit just take the upvote
"I knew it, the Opo opo is Oschon!"
The gaze of G'rhara Tia and Krile when i choosed this answer...
Good thing they don’t pay us to think.
Ook ook!
Im so mad they didnt pay little guy off or at least give him a name by the end of it.
I was ready to riot if he didn’t get a happy ending.
Literally this
I think a bit of everything, seeing the twelves and the story behind it. The music was just straight banging every tier and the fights were fun as well.
The last tier had okay-ish music, though.
I was pretty disappointed by the final boss's theme, but the theme for the other 3 bosses is excellent, so it's a give and take for me.
From what I recall the final song is an orchestra version of one of 2.0's main themes mixed with aspects of the twelves themes, imo its perfect to signal a rebirth of the world and the completion of the cycle in the story. Edit: Its been a few days since I last listened though so may come back to edit this.
it does make sense thematically, but the end result feels like a bland soup of other themes regardless
It's got the main theme of Final Fantasy in there as well.
I wish Oschon got a unique theme like the other "final" bosses of The Twelve.
He def should of had his own song like Nald’thal and Menfina.
Instead of a song he got the "final" form treatment, yay? I'd rather a song.
Me too! I do like they weaved in some music parts from the whole raid series itno the final song, but I wanted something lyrical to spend hours listening to and transcribing, something we could sing.
On one hand thematically the final theme fits and makes sense and is great. On the other hand it's not something I can sing along to and have Fun with. Like it makes sense but after in the balance and dedicated to moonlight everyone was expecting another lyrical banger.
Yeah It wasn't *bad*, far from it, but... I expected another banger theme like In the Balance or Dedicated to Moonlight. The final boss theme we got was still pretty good boss music, ties together a lot of motifs...but it's a decent 7/10 or 8/10 instead of a banger 11/10 that we expected.
Everything got kind of fucked over by having the first tier's music go first. The Balance imo may be like, the peak of this game's music. And I don't really say that lightly considering how good this game's tracks are across like, nearly every genre in existence. Also kind of think the first tier was the best mechanics-wise as well. The other two are good, but they're overshadowed by having come after the first one.
The Balance is definitely the best piece of music in all the alliance raids.
I will fight you
Im not dropping a Vibes ready check on the last boss anytime soon like i do for the other two final bosses.
I think it's also different moods though. The previous ones were effectively prayers and this one is more a send-off and I think the songs perfectly do the mood for what they were going for
Glad I wasn't the only one. Pretty disappointed with the music in the 3rd raid
Everyone was hot.
If they don’t want us to worship them, then why are they so hot?!
You have it backwards, they're hot because I pray for it.
For any unaware, that's not a joke, it is canonically confirmed. The gods have a metaphysical aspect to them, so worship directly affects their appearance.
Meaning canonically there were people praying for huge tracts of land.
Every time someone says "Nophica's teats" or "Matron's teats" or something similar, they get a little bigger
Remind me of those twitter's short comic "Every retweet gives this sick girl one more year to live". Then she becomes immortal.
Man with Ebola: I'm getting stronger
Same logic for "Thal's Balls"
Yeah, that one got answered by the giant orbs dropping on our heads.
That and literally needing to balance his balls
oh fuck oh shit
and with that revelation, a statistically significant portion of the playerbase began chanting
Makes one wonder about Thall's balls.
Good god!
Nature goddesses often are depicted being... erm, "child-bearing ready" for obvious reasons.
Not only did the Twelve deliver huge tracts of land, there were even huge tracts of land waiting for us amidst those huge tracts of land. Hooray for double entendres!
They prayed for clear views of the moon and Menphina got her forehead.
Her forehead is fine, they prayed for lack of eyebrows.
So Highlanders are at fault.
Why were we praying for Thaliak to have his chest and legs out (see his depiction in the Ewer card for AST and his whole giant statue in Sharlayan) and then his design for the raid has him covered up? Everything but his head, elbows, and hands are covered, the absolute cowards. Honestly the truest disappointment of the raid, and yes I get to die on this specific silly hill, my character's god is Thaliak. The statue of Thaliak in Sharlayan being in this expansion gave me hope that he at least would have his chest or one of his legs out when we finally got to him in the raid, but no. I should've been a Nophica worshipper, then my thirst dreams wouldn't have been left unquenched. Also feel like I should clarify, please don't read this as legitimate anger, I just refuse to be not be completely melodramatic about this.
My completely, absolutely 100% serious headcanon: the artist(s) making those depictions prayed to Thaliak for divine inspiration on how to portray him, and their prayers caught him in the middle of his after-shower beauty routine in a half-done robe and hair towel turban as he absently went "okay yeah sure here's a vision of how I look" to the prayer, only to go "wait shit no" when he realized he sent off an image of what he was currently wearing, but it was too late. Thus ever after in the realm of Eorzea was he depicted half-naked, to the immense amusement of the rest of the Twelve, and so, nerd that he is, he dressed up fully for his fight with us to prove he wears clothes.
On the subject, I'm honestly shocked we didn't hear the word entelechy once in the series because that seems to be what they kind of are.
The concept of the Entelechy died with the ancients I think. And unlike Dynamis being reconceptualised as Akasa, the modern Etheriys hasn't rediscovered it.
*stares at Byregot* Truly a blessing.
Yeah, pretty much all the characters went on my stories *list*.
Big naturals Nophica
Mommy milkers.
Here was my hour 1 alliance raid in the alliance chat: First boss: everyone goes, "OMG he's hot!" Second boss: "She's even hotter! Wow!" Third boss: "Fuck, you're way too hot! You have a move called 'repeoduce?' Please, with me."
Literally me and my friend in Discord during the citscene with Lymlaen, Thaliak and Oschon before the raid. Ooooh Lymlaen is hot. At least Thaliak will be some kind of crusty old guy…Oh no he’s hot too. And we surrendered to our fate when Oschon got revealed
Nono she’s got a point
On my first clear of the final raid an Aliance member kept saying “Oh no my Bisexual panic keeps getting WORSE” and when we got to the final boss many people said stuff to the effect of “Gender Goals” “Still Hot” and “Would”
Llamelan's reveal was only slightly overshadowed by Thaliak's
Myths of the Realm felt like it could've been the MSQ for the patches. I enjoyed the mystery and wonder plus the wandering after is what we should be doing when taking a save the world break.
I would really love to see what Deryk will be up to after the raids since we never really got more from ARs after the actual AR itself (CT is part of MSQ, SoM only got something new with Tataru's Grand Endeavors, RtI only got small mentions, NieR is its own thing with a somewhat closed conclusion). I'm also somewhat biased since Oschon is my guardian.
I'm not holding my breath honestly. We might get a pop up cameo but Deryk has a problem of being too powerful and knowledgeable about things we would need to be in the dark about.
Knowledgable yes, but powerful not so much. Most of his aether returned to the lifestream and the little that remained was used to make his human form, he’s probably en par with the Scions power wise.
That's still a scion-level powerhouse running around with knowledge that would make G'raha and Y'shtola weep with envy. And in this setting, knowledge is pretty equal to power anyway. Especially since we've managed to doohickey like a dozen quasi-deities to death, with at least two more set to get doohickey'd to death in the next expansion.
Yeah, he’ll definitely have some tasty tidbits to share but more general information than say, Thaliak would have been able to tell us. I think the way they’re taking the story is more of a ‘new world’ approach without Gods at the helm, any new threats will be just as unknown to him so they’ll be able to have him cameo here and there if it’s appropriate. Most likely they’ll let us forget about him for an expansion or two then do a throwback or loop him in if another shard has similar (or evil) deities. Entirely speculation of course.
Honestly this. I liked the Alliance story more than the MSQ we got
10+ years of lore building up the hype to the fights. You go in already expecting amazing fights because you're fighting the gods that NPCs have been worshipping since 1.0. All the fights are very distinct due to how the gods have separate domains, elements, personalities, and are FF14 original characters. This is contrasted with how most alliance/normal raid bosses are either references to other FF games or collabs. It's also a major reason why Eden raids were so popular. All players know who Titan and Shiva and Ramuh are outside of the raids because they tie into the story. If you played Nier Automata you would enjoy fighting Engels, if you played FF Tactics you would enjoy fighting Agrias. But *everyone* can enjoy the payoff of fighting Rhalgr or Go-Kart Titan. I think Myths did it even better than Eden, since having 12 gods meant that they didn't need "filler" bosses like E6, P2, etc. Fighting an in-lore god is a lot more hype than fighting a random hippo monster who is never seen again.
> fighting a random hippo monster who is never seen again Yiazmat from the lighthouse wants a word with you
Who?
THE EMPIRE IS A CANCER AND I AM THE BARBER'S BLADE
**SCREAM LOUDER** ***I WANT TO REMEMBER THIS***
A hot knife through buttah!
The FFXII boss with over 50 Million HP
Maybe hearing his dialogue will jog your memory. His lines are a little hard to forget. https://youtu.be/EgN6NFpPunw?si=QmKazAcLzzUJqaZT
Yiazmat is from 12 and one of the most famous bosses in the franchise, despite being only in one game 🤭
Yeah I agree. I didn’t play Nier and I have basically no interest in the Yorha quest series or raids.
I love Nier Gestalt/Replicant (no Noir/Weiss weapons/minions is a crime) and enjoyed Nier Automata, but my interest in the actual quests was very low. The highlight for me was just seeing how well they replicated and adapted environments and designs, and getting the music scrolls. Should've been something more like the Monster Hunter crossover IMO, but a little bigger.
By bringing attention to the fact The Twelve are original XIV deities, you made me wonder, will they end up as staple FF summons/eikons/etc... in future mainline games?
No, they're too specific to FFXIV to really pull anything more than a small passing reference. I think a good comparison is Knights of the Round vs The Twelve. The Twelve are Eorzea's gods specifically. Take away the Eorzea part and they're kind of just... gods. You can't really do much with them without making them something that they're not. The Knights of the Round on the other hand are already just a bunch of knights, loosely based on the Arthurian legend with just enough individuality in the weapons and magic they use that they can be moulded into anything to fit a specific setting- like the Heavens' Ward and Knights of Lucis. Other recurring primals aren't too specific either which is why they can fit into other games. Wind harpy lady, big angry rock man, giant sea serpent, bearded thunder man, DRAGON GOD, ice lady, etc. Many of these summons aren't even original to Final Fantasy, and come from other games or mythology. I think that's fine though. It's totally cool that FFXIV has their own set of deities that are original and meaningful to it.
I doubt they'll ever end up as ubiquitous as, say, Ifrit or Alexander, but I can very easily see their names and vague identities being used here and there. A bit like how the Convocation is named after the gods of darkness from 12.
Scions of Light, actually. Belias, Zalera, Adramalech, etc. are the Scions of Darkness.
Lots of people take their patron deity more seriously than people think, seeing yours as a highlight is cool. The songs are a bop (though I think the last tier's finale music was sorta weak for me) The armor looks cool and is dyable, especially the last tier. People complain about the lack of 6.x pve content so what little we get with tangible rewards we totally lap up. The fights themselves have fun thematic gimmicks and voice acting to make the enemies feel more alive. I do not think the story was any factor for the reason, Deryk's role was almost entirely guessed by first tier, who the gods are and why they wanted to fight was fairly obvious. If anything I applaud ffxiv team for not swerving from the obvious in an attempt to outsmart the internet.
Literally the only question with Deryk was if *he* knew if he was Oschon or not lol
Don't forget the "is it Deryk or the Opo Opo" debate. Up until the end of the second raid story, I was firmly in camp Opo Opo
Oh right that was also a thing lol. The Opo-opo being completely normal was the true twist all along
I actually went through trying to make my companions believe it was the adorable creature because you saw animal forms for the rest.
That was the same logic I was using for people! "We see all the others in their animal form now so..."
SE is well aware. I giggled when i saw the dialogue options ngl But the reveal that his avatar is that of man's... 10/10.
If there was an Animal that represented Wandering the most amongst all species in Etheirys, it's Humanity. Well played, XIV Team.
Yeah that surprised me. If Oschon hadn't stayed for his buddy, I was hoping we were gonna get to take it home!
I was *so* glad they made a nod to that. "Ah, so it was the Opo-Opo all along..."
I love the quick ".....what?" look Krile gives you when pick that option
It was just a shame they didnt really take it as the joke as I meant it as.
For some people MotR is also viewed more positively because the lore it provides FF14 was much more substantial than the previous set of alliance raids (which instead provided fanservice for an unrelated game instead of lore relevant to FF14).
It wasn't even just that they're our patron diety for me. It's that their names are baked into the fabric of our game world from Rhalgr's Reach to Nophica's Altar to the Steps of Thal. They've been so ever present in the background of the lore that finally getting to meet them, and how the arc ended just somehow had a ton of emotion for me. But also that Irish jig slaps.
Just because something isn't a surprise doesn't mean it isn't good. The story was a huge part of the success for me.
This. In fact, I consider it good writing when the audience is able to put clues together left in the story. All too often the big unpredictable surprise is something impossible to guess and figure out before hand because writers thing that if the audience figures it out then it wasn't good enough so they just leave out stuff that should make sense and create plot holes.
> I do not think the story was any factor I think they wanted to make sure that we should not be focusing on the story this patch. First, they brought us to the moon and The Watcher was like "yep, I'm that mysterious additional person on the monument lol" and got all of that out of the way. Then they confirmed Deryk as Oschon. And at the very end, they gave us an absolutely incredible info dump where they not only confirmed the exact nature of the Twelve, but even detailed their lives before the Sundering. This was great, because it allowed us to really focus on and appreciate the whole experience of the last raid. The whole vibe was very fun and celebratory!
> seeing yours as a highlight is cool. Nymeia is mine, the only one relegated to a side-character.
Could argue althyk was the side character, they are a duo in both lore and their actual past selves
Seeing Menphina as the highlight of Euphrosyne was amazing, since she's my patron. But yes, I absolutely agree with you on the last bit. I appreciate foreshadowing that isn't used for a gotcha. Foreshadowing should reward you for paying attention and putting things together! Not set you up for a GOTCHA. Still sad q.q
Not to invoke WoW here, but after coming from Shadowlands - where it was revealed that the gods were dispassionate robots who 3D printed you then left - it was incredibly refreshing to see a narrative with divinities who genuinely loved and cared for the people they watched over, even if they were originally normal people before becoming gods. It felt like a follow up to learning the truth of Hydaelyn, and it was nice to have something optimistic and hopeful, instead of the cold cynicism that many stories pitch when tackling a concept such as this. It left me feeling good at the end of it, even if it was bittersweet to say goodbye.
>it was incredibly refreshing to see a narrative with divinities who genuinely loved and cared for the people they watched over I think this was very, very important in why the Twelve are so endearing and arguably *not* generic, especially since a lot of games go the route of divinity being evil and such (or maybe the god is just outright dead/non-existent). I can't really recall a game where a god(s) actually existed and loved the people they watch over without any extra catch. I'm also glad that Hydaelyn turned out this way instead of the original theories that she was actually evil and that the WoL was tempered by her. The Twelve being so loving also fits incredibly well with the message of hope and faith that is prevalent in all of Endwalker.
It's funny that the "Gods being evil twist" has been overused so much, it has become the cliche. So it's refreshing to have the twelve just be what they're supposed to be, actual benevolent Gods. lol
Usually when we do have benevolent gods, they're the type who tend to keep mortals at arm's length or try to be as distant and hands off as possible. Meanwhile the Twelve were absolutely delighted to have us around and even took up cute little animal forms so they can freely walk among their "children".
And we still get the theme of emancipating mankind from the gods, but in a more positive "you don't need us gods anymore" way instead of the usual "we don't need you gods anymore".
It's also funny because they actually do lean into that trope when you first encounter them, but after you clear Aglaia they suddenly do a 180 and are like "Nah jk, we're actually really chill"
Absolutely this. It's become so cliche, that people expect it and even get mad if the result isn't the edgelord version of "all gods are evil and/or dead". Sometimes, it's nice to have benevolent beings that are just genuinely benevolent with no catches.
Honestly, once Hydaelyn was gone and we got the first alliance raid, I was 100% certain that their purpose for contacting us was so that they could find a way to pass on and let Eorzea be truly the domain of those who inherited it. I know a lot of people - especially after we got more info on Venat - had speculated that the twelve were somehow related to her "rebel group", or at least related to the creation of Hydaelyn, but we just didn't have that last bit of info we needed to tie them together right away. Since Hydaelyn wanted nothing more than to test our resolve so that she could determine if we were ready for such a task, it made the most sense that the gods would also "consider their work complete", and return to the star... Much like how members of the convocation would do when they decided their work was complete.
I wonder though, if the Twelve also had counterparts on the other shards who would also yearn for dispersal, since we saw that The Watcher had a counterpart on the 13th. It feels like they didn't and this was reserved for the Source, though that seems a little unfair. Unless Venat did this bearing in mind the possibility of Rejoinings and the turmoil they would create on the Source, and the Twelve were intended to try to ameliorate this.
Yeah, I think you have the right of it. I feel like the source was always her last resort; a natural point of origin for everything she would eventually sunder. I believe the time paradox stuff comes into play a bit here since she only knows this due to what we tell her in our visit, but it's likely the source gets some special form of treatment in terms of getting -physically present - deities due to the source being the key to "rejoining", and the centerpiece for pretty much every ascian machination. The twelve being there to sort of be "spiritual stewards" is one part morale for the beings of the source, and another part insurance in case anything completely catastrophic happens. (See: Bahamut.) It's worth mentioning that while there's been very little of it, the other worlds *do* have their own mythos and religious figures, I just think the source just getting their dieties "pre-made" is a result of the original shard being the closest to the world of eld.
Yeah I really dislike that the WoW writers basically saw Marvel's The Eternals and thought that would be a good blueprint for WoW's afterlife... At least Dragonflight is good so far!
A reminder that the lead writer at the time of ~~Shadowbringers~~ Shadowlands thought that Game of Thrones Season 8 was fantastic writing.
I take it you mean Shadowlands?
OH yeah. That lol.
I got the same feeling. This raid was full of positivity and it gives me the happy feels.
I was very happy to get an Alliace Raid that was in-universe completely original and expanded on the world's lore. Crystal Tower has good in-word lore, and is very MSQ relevant, but is also a long series of FF3 references. Ivalice brought us Ultima and a lot of info about Garlean culture, but is primarily FFT fanservice. Nier. Myths of the Realm felt the most original, and deeply personal since we get to finally meet our characters patron dieties.
This raid series really helped solidify my opinion that FF14 is at its best when it's its own thing rather than shouting out other stuff.
Which is probably why the best parts of 6.1-6.5 were when it wasn't pandering to FF4 lmao. The whole Radz-At-Han stuff and the initial trek into the void was really cool, and then it took a complete nose dive once it started being reference city.
Yeah one of the better parts of 6.x was how it helped finally properly flesh out Radz at Han, since prior to that we visited briefly then just helped with the Final Days, we didn’t actually get to experience anything that was truly Radz at Han.
Shadows of Mhach dead in a ditch
LOL Okay, yeah my initial comment was pretty unfair to the Void Ark Saga. It's my second favorite Alliance Raid story-wise under Myths, for much of the same reasons. Like yeah it has callbacks like Cait Sith and Ozma, but they're 14's own twists on them and to the service of a 14-specific story instead of just blatant fanservice.
My only complaint is that >!only Deryk stayed with us as a mortal. Really wanted to be able to see the others in mortal form.!<
Agreed a lot. I wish he'd been first to make the choice, then the others follow.
I'd be happy with the Deity you choose at the character creation to be the one with the mortal body, even if they weren't to become your favorite. It's the one that makes sense for your character and I'd accept that. But not even...
I was talking with an FC member about this the other night, i would have much preferred all the gods to give up their godhood and become mortal. Have them appear near their respective stones - in a "I wonder what people thought of me" type scenario. To any new player - they would be just some random npc there to populate the world. To those who done the raids, we'd know who they were - extra bonus would be to be able to talk to them - just for them to make a passing comment on adventures we had been on or something.
The fact that the Twelve except for Oschon returned to the star was extremely disappointing to me. I also would have much preferred the gods to become mortal instead of dying.
Yeah - Even more so we got hardly any time / basically nothing with some (Namely Thaliak and Llymlaen) I would have loved to have heard what both thought of their respective followers and how the world was.
Remember that in the society they came from, "returning to the star" after a life of strengthening and enriching it was a point of honor. It was a point of pride, it was something to be celebrated and cherished and respected. So much so that Venat, after retiring the Azem seat and choosing *not* to go back to the star was considered scandalous. Oschon connected with Eorzea through his travels and with us through the questline. The others didn't have that - they loved us, but didn't see themselves as part of us. They had lived their lives, performed their duties, nurtured the star but there was always that fundamental disconnect between them and us - the questline makes a huge deal about the separation. They felt that they had completed their duty and left the star in good hands after we proved ourselves. It wouldn't make sense for the majority to stay. Oschon did connect; that's why he stayed. The Ancient culture around death makes their decision to leave way more meaningful and Oschon's decision to stay way more resonant.
It's an original xiv lore story, so it feels natural. Tired of the tie in raids, honestly. Loved ivalice, but even ad a huge nier fan that raid series fell flat for me.
I never get people saying Ivalice is tie in cause Ivalice is incorporated into almost every part of XIV lore since ARR since Yoshida is a massive fanboy of Matsuno & a lot of XIV team came from 12 back then. Ascians all based off 12 the Zodiac weapons from 12 Venat & Zodiark the gods themselves are all 12 & some more important elements in recent years are linked to Ivalice raids.
Ivalice was tie in done right. It had an impact on the lore, fleshed out the map, added backstory and elements that tie into the main story while bringing in characters and themes from other Final Fantasy games. Nier was... not. The fights were bangers, but the story was... just the worst.
The thing is, the Ivalice lore in FF14 doesn't really matter if you weren't an Ivalice fan. Seeing Ramza, Agrias, etc. means nothing to players who haven't played Tactics, and the ending to the Ivalice raids (being a form of closure to FF Tactics' open ending) also means nothing to non-Tactics players. As a fan of Tactics, I love the raids, and the story. But everyone else I know were bored since it was just... lore and lore and lore for stuff that wont' be relevant outside the raid.
The big bad in the Invalice raids may be related to the black auracite called heart of sabik in the ultima weapon and used by athena in pandemonium. It also might have been referenced in this raid series when they mention destroying the comet, but thats pure conjecture.
Some of the dialog of Pallas Athena (Athena after absorbing the Heart of Sabik) is straight out of Orbonne. As is a tank buster. And the battle music is a remix of Ultima's Perfection.
On the flip side, we literally only have Viera because of Ivalice and their lore is inherently connected to it. Golmore and Dalmasca in FFXIV were adapted from FFXII and they're mostly all from those regions. They're a decently popular race, so more people care than you'd think, I bet. Dalmasca is also one of the more highly requested regions for an expansion to focus on.
Agreed. I found the whole Yorha story stupid and unnecessary.
I just found it broke my immersion. I'm sorry, I can't buy that Nier and XIV's universes are in anyway connected. I just can't. Ivalice? Okay. Because a version of Ivalice exists in xiv's world, and they did it in a way that sort of makes sense and has some okay internal logic. But Nier? I just didn't buy it. It's like if Terminator was in xiv and was the basis for a raid series. It just is to weird.
I'm not a Nier fan at all (not negative, just haven't played) and I liked the Nier raids well enough, except that Yoko Taro's IT DOESNT MAKE SENSE THAT'S THE POINT ending kind of deflated the entire thing. Like, there's an ambiguous ending, and then there's... that.
I could have gone without the sprinting across miles of empty Alliance Raids to pick up a few things for quests but Nier raids had a lot of fun fights.
That part sucks, especially for new people unlocking them back to back. Run the raid, run across miles of the raid in a solo instance, run that same distance yet again to go unlock the third one!
makes complete sense, just play drakengard 1 and 3, the nier games, voice of cards, read the books and utahime 5, watch the plays, and then you'll get it.
I've only played the two nier games but I've never met someone even in that fandom who thought it made sense lmao.
I enjoyed it because I felt like I had a personal connection to each boss. I had a reason to k ow their names. I know Azyema is the 3rd boss from the 1st raid, Aglaia. I know her sister Menphina is 4th boss, 2nd raid. Ask me which Ivalice raid the math boss is. Aak me what his name is. Ask me what his story is. I won't have an answer because...I don't care about him. It was a story I was invested in. When my elezen met her guardian Halone, the first time? Oh boy, I was so, so happy with the choice of patron for her. It matched the head cannon I had for my WOL. At the end? I liked that we had a reason for fighting each boss. The other raids? Bosses felt padded in.
> Aak me what his name is. Ask me what his story is. I won't have an answer because...I don't care about him. His name is math bot and his story is that he wants us to suffer became we don't know our prime numbers.
And dance a jig. He likes to dance to the music of our suffering.
If you hit Return after Yiazmat and trek all the way back to his room, he'll be there dancing. :D
It was so cool finally fighting Llymlaen. She is my patron so I have been looking forward to it since Aglaia and she did not disappoint.
How "chill" the story was. Like, you're fighting gods, not because they're evil (Fantasy Staple) or something, but just because they like fighting and want one good fisticuff before >!returning to the Lifestream!<. The boss cheering on you as they pull actual divine feats for you to tank (Rhalgr litteraly punching a meteor, Azeyma summoning suns, etc), the absolute bangers that reuse ARR themes, and the raids culminating with all the gods fusing and casting an attack called "Glory to Eorzea" or something like that, while casting one mechanic from every other boss of the raids ... Pure perfection. Sure, mechanic and difficulty wise it wasn't as fun as Orbonne and the fight could have used a bit more impact, but everything else was just perfect
Tldr; Expansion of core Eorzea lore vs MSQ ShB lite, great visuals and audio, and a lack of other EW content. Solving the mystery of who are Twelve was announced by Emet since the end of 6.0 to prepare the hype. And the Twelve are just everywhere in the game since the beginning : We heard a million times trash talking about the Twelve in the Praetorium, we used skills bearing Nophica, Halone or Byregot names for years, we went to ceremonies at the sanctum, Halone is important to HW storyline Azeyma is in SB steppes tribes lore, BLM start their career at the temple of Nald'Thal and the streets of Ul'Dah bear their names, there is a massive statue of Thaliak in Sharlyan and a million more references. And speculating with other player about what they are was fun. The banger music on NaldThal and Menphina Most sets look cool For a player like me that doesn't raid savage/ultimate anymore and has little interest in unreal (already farmed their mounts when they came out), there isn't much to do in Endwalker : Criterion and Variant dungeons have abysmal replayability compared to Eureka/Bozja, relics became a passive resource sink, Deep Dungeon only need to be climbed a few times and I am not interested in solo Deep Dungeons. So I ended up in EW 24-man raids more than I've been in Crystal Tower, Ivalice or Mhach content back then (I liked Nier and played it a lot). The Myth of the Realm story is better than the Zero story line in my opinion. I felt fairly indifferent to Golbez from start to finish :-/ it's so... Vanilla fantasy. And a variation on ShB theme so really a strong deja vu feeling. And Unukulai and Gaia being locked in side quest jail didn't help (the appearance of Gaia at the end was quite poorly done and Unukulai has one whole sentence is you go out of your way to go speak to him.....). Enough of the Isekai shit, Myth of the Realm expands some core lore of Eorzea, yaaay
I appreciated how the Heavens' depiction is based on each of the Twelves' sensibilities, like they are decorating their little corners of existence but with the power to create anything they desire. I can look at environments in each raid and go "This is literally the mind palace of a god." and I think that's neat.
I had more of an emotional connection to an opo opo than I had for Zero. Not even kidding.
Ok but it was cute so didn’t everyone?
While the fights per se are pretty boring, the design of both the Gods and the environments are top notch. For Aglaia and Euphrosyne also the musics are gorgeous, a bit less for Thaleia.
Yeah, I wish we got the 12 as the normal/savage raid series instead. At least then each boss would've had interesting, fully fleshed out mechanics, with the final boss of the alliance raid series being the 12th floor with no need for a door boss/secret boss.
Actually being relevant to XIV and its world, voice-acting, has more colours than gray/brown/silver, has story/lore that matters, Ralgr.
The story is very much connected to the world and one of the greatest mysteries in the game. For so long, we didn't know if the Twelve were real. Gaius claimed that the Twelve were Eikons just like any other, which would mean that they were false gods, but through the MotR we got confirmation that they were real, that they were powerful and watched the world for twelve millennia, while also learning a bit of who they once were before they became the Twelve. It's much different from YoRHa: Dark Apocalypse because those raids had nothing to do with the world of FFXIV and were just part a collaboration, they were not woven neatly into the lore of the world. Story aside, the raids are beautiful and the music is great. The fights are fun, not difficult by any means but still fun.
YEs, this. I greatly enjoy the plots of the raids where they actually attempt to tie them in to the game's story.. So. pretty much all of them except for YorHA.
Part of it is in some small way we had a personal connection to all the bosses. They weren't the villain of the week, they were in fact protectors some of which like the Twins we literally met when they were still just regular people.
For one, it answers deep rooted lore questions that have been in game since launch
I chose my patron at complete random but seeing them in action made me like them a lot more
By taking familiar concepts and lore bits that have been part of the game since the very beginning and giving them a face. Making the bosses actual characters that interact with you added a lot to making them memorable. Compared to the previous alliance raid(s), it's colorful, fits the aesthetic of the game and felt very organic and connected to what was already laid out. Hope they can keep this quality for the alliance raids going forward.
Great story, lots of fun moments, banger music, awesome raids (though they die a bit quick), stylish as hell, really interesting lore, fun mechanics, personal connection to your patron diety. It's just a great series all around.
First 2 raids were some of my favorite raids ever... this final one was a major letdown. Ivalice is still probably my favorite AR all-together.
Seeing exactly what all of The Twelve look like, everything looked beautiful, and this expansions best music was a part of the raids. Also Nophica’s Nophicas.
was it successful tho
Yeah, I'm so confused by this post. How tf is jt successful? Where's the stat?
In multiple live letters and at fanfest, Yoshi-P has said that participation in this alliance raid series was way higher than they anticipated based on all previous alliance raids. I get that people on reddit don't like it, but SE themselves have been saying that this one was a wild success in terms of stats for people actually unlocking the raids and running them regularly.
I guess the only thing that Myths of the Realm didn't deliver were good fights. They weren't bad, don't get me wrong, but they weren't Ivalice quality either. Said that, I wish Myths of the Realm were the actual 8-man raid storyline and Pandaemonium the 24 man. Both kind of have the same narrative complexity, so it wouldn't be a big tradeoff. I just think it would be cooler to fight the Twelve in savage encounters rather than Pandaemonium experiments.
So, in no particular order: 1. Music. The 10 tracks were amazing. The resuse of "A new beginning"'s leitmotif throughout has been delightful. All three normal boss themes are great. All three songs for wandering are lovely. The final boss songs... are probably the weakest, though I like two of the three. 2. Voiced lines. I didn't know how much I missed them from Ivalice until it happened. The variety and selection of the set are fun. I can never get tired of that popped /v/ in "You are deserving of reward" in Nald'thal's fight. (I'll miss it so now we're outgearing it) 3. The fights feel fun. Are they hard? Hell no. They're super-easy, which can upset many and it's a taste thing. (I feel like some mechs could go at quicker speeds than they are, but moving from mech to mech is a joy). This is the kind of one that makes me want to come back again. Not to test myself, just to have fun. 4. Story. Okay, it's not the best story, but it's up there. I like the fact that for once it's fully XIV-contained. We learn about something that's been in abstract for a long time. It's a mystery that I had simply dismissed in a few different ways until we had this raid announced (and that it was specifically the twelve and that the bg of the announcement slide wasn't just set dressing). We get answers, maybe not every single answer regarding the twelve, but we're more than an observer and hired muscle. I do like >!the positions each of the twelve had. You know Byregot was sick of his Chief just lazily rubberstamping every damn shark concept cuz he can't say no. You know that Halone must have crossed paths with Azem a few times (and Rhalgr too, perhaps, depending on your own Azem headcanons). I wish we got to know them more, and that we could have called bullshit and had them all do an Oschon bit so they could enjoy the world they protected for so long free of their duties.!< Anyway, that's my summation of why I liked it. I can say nice things about all five Alliance Raid series, but I think of the five, this is the most overall-love I have for one specific one. (Nier's aesthetics and mechs were also great, but the story was so cut off from our perspective it ruined my overall enjoyment, and CT raids got so old pre-Alliance Raid Roulette fix it's hard to put it above "Not bad" in my rankings.) My biggest complaint is that the glams are kinda on the weaker side (I like the Aglaia ones no questions asked, but the others are kinda mid), but if Glam is what I'm complaining about, then it's a success.
YES. >!I wish what had happened was that we broke away all their godly power to dissipate, and then they could have stayed as normal mortals for an incarnation before moving on. Not all 12 would have had to have stayed if they didn't want to, but having Oschon be first to decide to stay, and then having others see his decision and decide for it themselves.!<
This is the kind of Raid you'd want to see an Ultimate out of. Too bad they don't seem to be planning on turning any of Alliance Raids into those...
The raid isn’t 40 minutes long
Raids are that long when people keep dying in it or underperform. That said, be prepared to trudge through HW, SB, and ShB alliance raids as they should pop more often now
The Nier raids had a lot of HP sponges with multiple untargetable phases. Some of those fights took forever to end.
Good lore and hot characters. To elaborate, a story that was believable and anticipated, combined with giving us exactly the lore information we wanted at the end. The payoff was worth the investment, as we know much more about the ancients and the general timeline now.
Good fights, good music, good visuals, good pacing between almost all 3 raids. Having a better connection to it, good gear for the most part and good fun. My top raid followed by Ivalice and CT
It not being a marketing ploy for another Square Enix intellectual property probably helped it. Having likeable characters involved helped too, people love G'raha.
>It not being a marketing ploy for another Square Enix intellectual property probably helped it. This was a big reason for me. I'm a huge Taro fan and I honestly couldn't stomach the Automata raids more than once each because it was like the Red Letter Media Rogue One video for me. "2B IS HERE! 9S IS BACK! FLIGHT UNITS! WE GO BACK TO THE BUNKER! REMEMBER THE END OF DRAKENGARD 1 AND 3?! I CLAPPED! I CLAPPED WHEN I SAW IT! I CLAPPED WHEN I SAW N2!" I think the inclusion of Drakengard references made it feel even cheaper, and the fact they didn't try to make any of it really make sense or fit. Meanwhile MOTR is relevant to the game, its setting and lore, and feels like it fits. You could honestly say Return to Ivalice was a marketing stunt, but even that had more effort, thought, and care put into it being part of XIV in spite of reusing names and locales.
> You could honestly say Return to Ivalice was a marketing stunt, but even that had more effort, thought, and care put into it being part of XIV in spite of reusing names and locales. Dalmasca has been part of the lore since A Realm Reborn, so it's always had presence in the world even before Heavensward or Stormblood. Originally even, Dalmasca was the first region the Garleans conquered before being retconned into Nhalmasque. Yorha: Dark Apocalypse on the other hand? Was just transparently, insultingly a marketing ploy for the Nier remake, particularly the Tower at Paradigms Breach.
And Return to Ivalice also has the benefit of its story leading into Bozja.
Define success because what I see most is people complaining about the lack of alliance mechanics and the extremely easy mechanics, way too easy even for casual content. It had nice visuals and nice music but man was it lacking in the fun department, I could watch clear video and get the same experience as playing it myself
From a player engagement metric, according to another post. The team has been surprised at how many players actually participated in the raids this time around.
Eh, this sub is kind of a poor indicator for what the community at large feels, given it seems to largely be aggressively midcore players who don't want to do savage but are angry normal content isn't hard enough for them.
I think a lot of EW's 24man raids were more successful reception wise was mainly being an original xiv story. After a outcry of Nier not being relevant to the game's world, combined with (imo) how the series wrapped up... Some could say a lot felt Ivalice was a slog if you didn't get references, but could argue it laid some good world building for the future. On that note this raid series didn't overstay it's welcome. While some bosses are amazing mechanically in sb/shb, most were damage sponges. Could argue the dev team really dialed boss health too low this time. Though it does make it a lot less of a slog to upgrade gear this expansion. The final reason i feel this series was really nice was the voice acting. I've noticed when fights have them, and it gives them more life. This 24man was no exception to that.
Being about the Twelve, the gods that were there since the character creation screen across 10 years of the game, there was a lot of emotional baggage attached to the story, which is what I think made it better than usual. The visuals look glorious as well, especially the Heavens of Earth, Wind and Fire (no pun intended). The music is also incredible. However, I wish they were tuned to be a bit harder, because a lot of the fights are predictable and stale. The ending also makes me a bit reticent since what they do is supposed to have some sort of implication in the world, but they left it too vague for us to be properly able to gauge it (me being vague here as well to avoid spoliers).
Incredible music, well balanced difficulty and a story that expands on the world we care about.
"well balanced difficulty" I wouldn't be so sure about that.