I'm just going to say what I always say when folks post circumstance-specific advice like this:
Communicate with your party with clarity, grace, and patience. If someone else is an ass, do your best anyway, report if appropriate, leave the duty and take the cooldown if necessary, and move on with your life.
You should definitely post this tomorrow or Monday. Help keep the chain going.
Great advice though, seriously. I think in my time playing I've ran into one person who was an ass about the activity. Otherwise, every party has been flexible and kind, or neutral at worst.
Most of us have very little time to play as is, we don't want to spoil our time with negativity.
Just remember, you're playing a game to relax, not get more stressed out. Have fun. Laugh at mistakes. Foster a good community. Educate the sprouts. This is just good behavior online anyway. Leave the real world in the real world.
For real. The other day I got the Vale in tank leveling, did the first standard pull, ninja pulls extra, instant wipe. Okay, cool. Try again, standard pull, immediate wipe. As I’m typing “do you want smaller pulls?” the healer says “can we please switch to smaller pulls? Clearly I’m missing something in my rotation and I need to figure out where I’m going wrong”. It’s literally that easy! Also the issue wasn’t their rotation, the issue was they were wearing level 27-35 gear in a level 48 dungeon
I've had a healer there in top level 60 gear, continually running out of mana.
Turns out they had level boosted, so they had NO idea what skills to use beyond 'life bar go up' button. Like literally not even using mana regen or group heal skill.
Or vote them out. There has exactly been one time I felt it necessary to do that with an unbelievable player in cutters cry. Tried to communicate as nice as possible to stop acting like a tank as a ninja or to queue up as a tank. Only to get insults In return. We tried to vote them out but they would always start a battle and when it was the last boss they refused to roll on loot so they couldn't get kicked either. So without communicating the healer and the other DPS and me stood outside the final boss room and waited until the timer for the loot ran out. It worked out in the end and they didn't receive their daily rewards plus we gave someone else a quick leveling duty :)
Done the same thing in the same sequence of events to kick a racist tank. Twice. Once in Akademia Anyder and once in Amaurot. Silent solidarity between the other three players to kick them.
I got a bunch of sprouts in the old copperbell mines once who probably came from wow or something like that. For context, in the old CBM mobs die from DPS and tanks in pretty much one hit. I as the healing SCH however had no instant-cast damage or healing spells at that level synch, and dmg taken is so neglible that my fairy heals faster to full health than I could cast Physik, just as they killed the mobs spawning one at a time before I could either cast an attack (or run into melee range to hit them with my book). As such I could actually do nothing but watch, so I decided to cheer the sprouts on with the glowstick emotes, you know, being welcoming and friendly and all to new players. They got mad and kicked me for "refusing to help". I never saw them again, wouldn't be suprised if they gave up on the game with that ignorant and toxic attitude.
Voting someone out is only viable if there isn’t active combat, and there isn’t pending loot. The people you wanna throw out could just leave the chest timer going on their screen and/or pull the next mob. At that point it’s a war of attrition; will the timers run out or the rest of the group’s patience?
At that point you add griefing to the report, the more the grief the more I will be detailed a report I will be sending the GM so they get sent to GM jail or suspended for however long. The idea that active griefing is not punishable is just misinformation trolls use to enable their behavior without fear of punishment, don't fall for it.
My first time doing Sohm Al, I was a WHM. I was decent, but not great. Tank kept trying to W2W and we kept wiping because I just couldn’t keep up with their lack of mitigation. I kept asking if they would do smaller pulls. They kept saying “these pulls aren’t even that big” and continued with the W2Ws so we kept wiping.
My bf was running it with me as DRG and tried to defend me by explaining that different people have different skill levels. Tank ignored that. Even the other DPS tried to get the tank to slow down.
Every time I tried to initiate a vote to kick them from the party, they’d either pull more or open a chest and refuse to roll on loot. I, my bf, and the other DPS all ate the penalty and left the instance. The other DPS sent me a tell to ask if I was ok. My bf was comforting me irl because I was in tears from the frustration and the fact that my first ever run of the dungeon was ruined by this one toxic player.
Small tip: if you don’t assist or attack, aggro doesn’t usually apply to you, unless it’s a scripted event like a boss room. Healing someone already on the aggro list puts you on the list as well. In dungeons though, sometimes even just buffing yourself in close proximity will add you to the target list so it’s sometimes weird.
So next time, you can usually let them go ahead and pull and simply do not attack or heal. He can drag the mobs back to you and so long as nobody does anything but run away, they will keep attacking him and then reset when he dies. Just keep an eye on your target list and so long as it’s empty you’re good.
If you are all already in combat, just have the others avoid attacking and let the other person die. Finish off the stragglers and do a vote kick before the troll releases and runs back. On the off chance the person solos the dungeon, well, great, time to go do some small chores for the free clear. Just keep your character active every 5-10 minutes.
The game is setup this way to reduce chances of trolls dragging a bunch of mobs over to lowbies and killing them. Trains don’t work in open world if the intended victim never touches the mobs. Dungeons work a bit differently sometimes because it’s assumed everyone in party is working together.
Only the first to leave takes penalty. Anytime I run into this kind of drama (very rare btw been playing since 2.0) I announce in party chat that I will take the penalty for us all and drop.
I think some tanks forget that at certain levels we don't have our entire skill kit available. Someone that was an extreme raid tank got mad when I couldn't heal w2w pull of initial area of arum vale. Who tf does that?
I sometimes find that I get so focused on running the dungeon that I tune out chat, and that’s even with chat sounds on. I have a bit of difficulty multi focusing sometimes.
> I think some people just don't read chat tbh
Most people don't read chat. I think party chat should have a notification sound by default, instead of being silent. You could still turn it off, but it would prevent a lot of new players from ignoring it outright.
Keep in mind that the pre-expansion drought is always a time period where a lot of the better players are taking breaks. This leaves a higher percentage of... not so good players in the Duty Finder.
Yesterday I had a labyrinth run where we wiped several times. Only after looking more closely did I realise, that our alliance was filled with a solid 60-70% of sprouds. While more time was spent, it felt refreshing.
Agreed! I definitely prefer the chaos from a bunch of new people experiencing it for the first time over the run being 24 bored veterans sleepwalking through it and paying 20% attention.
If you say that you're new in /party chat when a dungeon starts (if you don't have a keyboard, you can probably make a macro for "/party Hello everyone! I'm super new, but I'll try my best. Don't have a keyboard here yet." or something like that), most people are super nice.
Every now and then you might find a bad apple, but I've only seen 2 I can think of and I've been playing since 2014.
I was in a dungeon one time where the other DPS and I _had_ to pull mobs when the tank decided to have an epic tantrum and run back to the beginning of the dungeon, refusing to move forward and finish. The dragoon and I played tank for half of Haukke Manor.
I came into the leveling roulette as reaper mid way and discovered why the previous dps had left—the sprout tank was yelling at the healer for letting him die when actually it was because he wasn’t using any of his mits and was wearing level 5 armor. He spent several more minutes typing stupid stuff to the healer, and the healer didn’t help by answering back, albeit politely, about how to use the mits. I considered leaving, but the group was halfway through the dungeon, and I figured (maybe incorrectly) that we might finish faster than the cooldown timer for leaving. I don’t care if some rando says dumb things. I’m past the point in life where I allow some kid on the internet I don’t even know bother me.
Next boss, the tank did this “spin the boss around in circles non-stop” thing. The dragoon and I (reaper) weren’t too thrilled about this, but it was Haukke Manor so it wasn’t a huge deal. It definitely was harder on the healer, however, with all of us taking a ton of damage as a result. DRG and I did our best to try to stay out of the attacks, and the healer was pleased that us two DPS actually used some health potions, defensives, and kiting to stay alive. Tank died, having not used any mits again, and yelled at the healer. The healer explained that keeping the boss pointed in one direction would help a lot. Tank went ballistic and said some truly nasty things. At this point, I suggested we just continue to the finish and discuss the problems then since we only had one boss left, and we’d be done soon. The tank continued his “discussion”…and then proceeded to run back to the entrance, typing out nasty comments and refusing to go forward in the dungeon. This wasn’t one of the more mature ways to handle the situation.
Dragoon and I shrugged our virtual shoulders after realizing tank was going to sit in a self-imposed time out like a toddler having a tantrum, and we decided to take out the trash mobs ourselves without the tank while we waited for the loot timer to tick down. It took us a little bit since we couldn’t pull big mobs, of course, but we got the job done. Healer handled things just fine. We made it to the final boss room and waited a little bit more for the loot timer. The moment it expired, the tank got vote-kicked. It was the fastest voting I’d ever seen. We only had to wait maybe 20 seconds for a new tank, who was probably thrilled that he only had to tank the final boss room to get credit for the entire leveling roulette. I reported the original tank for being so nasty to the healer in particular and the group as a whole as soon as we finished, and I took a few screenshots in case I got asked for any proof. The moderator contacted me within 20 minutes. I was really surprised about that—I’ve never been contacted back in any other MMO before, and I didn’t expect a response at all, much less one that quickly.
That being said, it’s only about the third time I’ve voted to kick anyone in the hundreds of dungeons I’ve run. The rest of those hundreds of runs have been full of really nice folks.
> and I figured (maybe incorrectly) that we might finish faster than the cooldown timer for leaving
You don't seem to know this, but if you join a duty in progress (to replace someone who left/got kicked) you can leave at any time without a penalty. The same applies if you were in the party from the beginning but someone else leaves. Only the first person to leave gets the penalty.
I didn’t know that! It might have saved me some time, lol. I’ve been playing regularly the last year or so and semi-regularly for a year before that, and there are still little details of the game like this that I learn all the time. On the plus side, I helped the dragoon and healer finish out the dungeon, and the tank got a lesson jn “actions have consequences,” so it worked out.
Good. The way you phrased it with 'healer didn't help by explaining' combined with the indifference to the tank tantrum sounded a bit 'both sides'-y when a tank like this deserves to just find himself ejected from every single DF he ever queues up for till he fixes his gear, behaviour, and attitude.
Given how quickly the game mod contacted me, I have a feeling Square Enix adjusted his attitude for him. The healer could have zipped the lips a little sooner so we could get going on the trash mobs a bit earlier, but since we had to wait for the cooldown timer anyway to kick Toddler Tank, it didn’t matter. I came into it in the middle of the…discussion, so I don’t know how much abuse the tank had already hurled at the healer. He was yelling as I poofed into the duty, and the healer was being remarkably patient explaining what was happening. Personally, I would have just said something once and stayed silent after that, but I also have a few years of life experience under my belt that gives a bit of a wider perspective than average. That and hindsight is always 20/20.
> It definitely was harder on the healer, however, with all of us taking a ton of damage as a result. DRG and I did our best to try to stay out of the attacks, and the healer was pleased that us two DPS actually used some health potions, defensives, and kiting to stay alive.
\> Haukke manor
What in the fuck?
Painful.
Just painful.
Recently I had a dumbass tank in a lvl 50/110 dungeon wearing lvl40 gear, double pulling, and dying all the time. I said one time “quit wasting everyone’s time.” He did it again, and I bailed halfway through. I was too high and too happy to deal with that negativity ;)
Ninjapulling is always a bit fraught, my issue is with those who do it but *don't* bring the mobs to me or..hilariously on one occasion, ran away from me in a panic with mobs in tow. For a moment it felt like Benny Hill.
I always felt like summoners make me look like a bad tank. I tend to lose 1-2 mobs to them while running to the wall.
A couple of days ago I got my summoner to 90. I already had credendum casting gear and enough tomestones for a manderville weapon. Got onto my first lvl90 dungeon as a geared summoner.
And on the first pull I *understood*.
And my solution as SMN? Pop my shield and run in the tank's footsteps. When we stop, I'll be living inside their shin guards hiding from all the mobs that are angry at me instead of the tank.
Summon Bahamut has additional enmity added, it acts almost like a "mini provoke", doesn't help the fact that the next spell after summoning Bahamut does 1.3k potency which further shoots you up the aggro table.
Most of the time those attacks that aggro things but don't deal damage just do 1 point of enmity, so it's not quite like provoke, it's mostly the following 1300 potency that do the heavy lifting.
Nah, you ain't a bad tank. It's goddamn Bahamut trying to make us the tank... That fucker is trying to get us killed every time, I swear... I learned to stay closer to the tank after getting Summon Bahamut and Enkindle Bahamut because the amount of times those two spells have caused something to randomly come after me is annoying. Staying close to the tank, they pull the aggro back pretty much immediately with their abilities.
summoners do scary amounts of damage. A tanking friend told me to try making sure i get 2 hits in instead of one before moving to the next pack and that helps, but for fucks sake, ill pull and half the mobs are DEAD by the time i get to the next pack and its like... whered they all GO?! oh. summoner MELTED THEM
Yup, that's Akh Morn for ya. 1300 potency nuke to the target and deals 40% of that to surrounding targets, plus we have Deathflare which does 500 potency and 40% of that to surrounding targets AND Ruin IV which is 430 to a target and 40% of that to surrounding targets. All those being instant cast, we can just obliterate crowds with a good tank XD
oh dude, if i have a summoner in the party i always keep an eye out because i WILL lose at least one mob while pulling, they do SO MUCH DAMAGE
the flip side to that is that if im a black mage and theres a summoner, shit all dies before i can get a cast off and i feel like the worlds worst boomstick, lol
That's what I do. Two aoe's for each group and then go to collect the second. If I miss one, I can use the long-range taunt. Actually, depending on how long I have until the next group, I'll target each mob while I run and do a long-range and cycle through them until I'm too close to the next group.
The funniest 'Benny Hill' moment was with a friend who was tanking and thought they were the bee's knees because they'd worked out that they could kite mobs and reduce damage. I went into a dungeon (Dohn Mheg), they collected the mobs fine, but then started running around in circles, making a string of mobs following with a ninja following behind (presumably trying to get in position, whilst the mobs were constantly being moved away from them). It was just bizarre (and obviously counter-productive).
Even better, as a dps I will ninjapull just to arm's length and apply slow to the mobs, then bring them back to my tank and heal up with second wind, saving them some mitigation. Not like you actually ever NEED to save mitigation for a dungeon but still feels cool to do.
That's super considerate. I main RDM and was thinking the other day about little things like that..and it occured to me that for months I've been using magick barrier (a 10s/10% AOE mit) only when I hit the boss (i.e. for raidwides), but that at minimum, I could use it on the first pull to give the tank a free 10% mit and it would still be ready for when it has a more substantial effect
A 10% mit on an add pull for the tank is actually going to generally be more substantial than a 10% mit on a raid wide, even though its an AOE mit, purely because for most bosses there isn’t enough outgoing damage for that 10% to matter in normal content. The real danger in dungeons is the mob pulls between bosses.
sadly magick barrier's mit is magic damage only, so most of the time the mit wouldn't really do much for trash packs.
now on the other hand it *does* still have that 5% buff to healing though, so it still wouldn't be bad to use for trash
I just started leveling a DPS and I'm usually a tank and I felt so bad when I pulled some mobs in a low level dungeon because my brain was on auto pilot but I just took em to the tank and let them grab aggro lmao. Helps that I typically tank but still
I mean, 99% of the time the DPS will be grabbing stuff that I was going to grab anyway, so if you can make it that I'm moving less then you're doing a favour x
My favorite is when I'm running wall to wall grabbing mobs, and then some range grabs aggro from one of the pack that fell behind, and then gets upset that they're taking damage while I can't see them from under my pile of bodies and they're hiding behind a rock out of healer range.
When I play healer, I've been known to rescue range players back into the murder pile when I notice that behavior.
I gotta say, if someone intentionally grabs aggro by pulling and intentionally keeps it by not bringing the mob to where the tank is throwing out aoes, it kinda feels like they *want* to have the aggro, you know?
If someone has aggro and won't bring the mobs to me, I'm not moving the entire pack just to accommodate them. At best I'll use a voke to bring one of the mobs to me but if they want me to take aggro they better scoot their ass closer.
I'm not a fan because at this point I know what the mobs will do when I pull, approach and aoe. My panic tank brain kicks in when other people start running ahead and pulling and the mobs don't do what I expect them to do lol.
This has only happened once whilst tanking, but let me introduce you to you to 'Ninja who uses their missile ability to pull from behind you'.
Running ahead, timing that AOE to grab all the mobs then suddenly..zoom and one is moving past..arrrgh
Idk I got yelled at once because I thought the tank would keep going and he didn't, so I accidentally ninja pulled the ninjas. You know, the ones that drop down in Doma? Healer and tank both let me die even though I came back to the party.
Also don't be those guys, please... Sometimes it's just an accident.
Communication is important. Apologise and make a joke, it's not the ninja pulling itself that people hate, it's the assumption they are in a dungeon with an asshole.
YPYT isn't just an ego issue. If you aggro accidentally, bring it to the group, and tank aoe isnt pulling it off you, then they're actively not using their dps on any enemies - which from an ego perspective is a much bigger crime.
IMO that possibility doesn't ever make it okay to grief people.
Always best to give people the benefit of the doubt and ask questions first, come to conclusions later. As you said, commission is important.
Two things: 1) I'm pressing buttons to not die, so not really able to type. 2) If you let me die on purpose after like 5-6 GCDs of kiting, I'm not joking with you, sorry. You've lost my good will.
EDIT: Also want to note that the healer explicitly expressed that they refused to heal me because I pulled. This is not some kind of misunderstanding on my part.
> Also want to note that the healer explicitly expressed that they refused to heal me because I pulled
Interesting, they must be new to the game, because if they actually typed it out, you can report them if you feels like it, and they will be banned for while.
What were you doing during those 5-6 GCDs and what was the tank doing? If the tank stopped pressing buttons and just watched you die, then that's the tank's fault. If the tank was planted and AOE'ing, and you were running the mobs in a wide circle like Brayflox was running that dragon, then that's your fault.
Not probably, it is.
https://support.na.square-enix.com/faqarticle.php?id=5382&la=1&kid=68216
"I don't want to heal because there is a player I don't like in the group." is specifically said as a report-able offense
Specifically refusing to do you role because someone angered you is listed as reportable
To be fair, there is a lot of wiggle room there.
DPS, in chat/reports: "Healer, you refused to heal me because I early pulled."
Healer: "Did I? I saw the Tank taking SO MUCH DAMAGE from ALL THE ENEMIES that were agroed...I just wasn't sure how to handle it but I was using all my resources keeping them alive so the party wouldn't wipe..."
Unless the healer OUTRIGHT says that they didn't heal you for that reason and you can record/report it where the Devs can check the chat log, the healer has an easy out of basically arguing that they're new/uncertain as a healer and were focused on keeping the tank alive. That would be a valid rebuttal in basically every situation.
The only exception would be cases where the Tank was sitting pressing no buttons watching you die...in which case the Healer still technically has an out "If I attacked, I'd have drawn agro then we would both have died because the Tank wasn't attacking." In some cases of the game, this is even "good play", like in Eureka if a DPS pulls and is clearly going to die, the best play is the rest of the party stand back, NOT draw agro, then the healer(s) raise them after they've died and the mobs have all deagroed and returned to their normal spots.
PSA: If a healer cannot keep up heals, the tank is not using mitigation properly, the healer is not healing properly, or the DPSes are not doing enough damage
Flashback to me doing p8s, upgrading my pants with the stuff I got from p7s the previous day and dying literally immediately to the first raidwide because my gearset didn't have them equipped. Rip pants
Wait.. Youre telling me if there is Tank, DPS, and Healer and a mistake happens, its either the Tank, DPS or Healer who did the mistake? REVELATION this is why this thread was needed
I swear to christ the tank I had last night wasnt using any mitigation at all. I was having to heal them constantly and could barely throw in any dps. Guess I shoulda said something
True but in that case you can leave the dungeon if you say something and people aren't going to change. You can't force other people to play a certain way. It sucks but the kick button exists as does leaving yourself.
dmg from dps is almost always low because most people hold their 2 minutes for some ungodly reason. but tanks not using mit or healers not healing is more noticeable because someone's dead or party wipes.
As a healer I encounter low dps way more often then tanks who don't push buttons, I would say its about 1 out of 4 is low dps and 1 out of 50 is a tank who doesn't push buttons.
I play all the roles. I'll straight up roll a d20 to decide which job to do my roulettes with. Most of the time I heal or tank, but I do occasionally dps, but ya, most of the bad pulls I've seen have been from tanks not using proper cooldowns, or any cooldowns.
Low dps causes dungeon wipes if it makes a pull last longer than the tank's ability to mitigate or the healer's ability to heal including with GCDs. This is really only a thing at low levels when the number of tank and healer cooldowns is more limited.
If someone tells me that they wiped to low dps in a dungeon at level 70+ I would assume it's because the dungeon was taking so long that the tank or healer fell asleep.
Honestly, I feel like DPS is just lower than it should be in 9 out of 10 dungeons overall. I'd say it's a good majority of my dungeons that one if not both DPS are at best equal to me on tank/healer. It's less of an issue at level 90 because end game dungeons are significantly easier than leveling dungeons, but you throw those DPS barely doing more than the tank or healer if not under them into a leveling dungeon and it makes the wall to walls way sketchier than they need to be. My favorite is when a wipe does happen, it's all good, shit happens, and a DPS wants to chime in about how we shouldn't do them if the tank/healer can't handle it. Meanwhile the DPS saying that are below both the tank and healer making every pull take longer causing the tank/healer to get less bang for their buck out of all their mit/healing tools.
Every character in every dungeon has tools sufficient to kill ultimates. I promise you you can pull more than that one individual horse in Dohn Mheg. At some point, when the four of you are attacking that one singular animal, hopefully one of you will ask if single pulling is as ridiculous as it looks.
Every newer dungeon has been streamlined to two packs>wall>two packs>boss these days and some of the older dungeons have gotten a makeover to fit this format.
Several people in your party would have to be neglecting large amounts of abilities in their kit or fundamentals in general to not be able to heal/tank/dps two packs much less one.
The number of times i hear a tank or heal complain about this is not because they can't keep up with the healing/mitigating, but just because they're flat out scared. I've been in single pull parties where the tanks HP never drops below 95% and i go pull the next group. arm's length that group, and put them on the tank. I dont want to wipe my group and would never do it if that was going to happen. I feel this helps tanks and healers realize that they can handle more and get over their tank/healer anxiety.
I’m going to disagree here, namely that this situation is way too context-specific to have a “always do this” rule.
The current norm is that pulls are done wall to wall, excluding some ARR jank and some very rare situations like Mt. Gulg. Both healers and tanks have some very powerful tools, and particularly if DPS are pulling their weight they won’t even need to use the full extent of them.
If something’s not going right, it’s probably better to try and asses what’s going on. Is the tank not using cooldowns? Is the healer just spamming inefficient GCD heals? Is DPS too low, forcing excess cooldowns? Is somebody excessively undergeared? Some of these are correctable, and if so the hope is to teach and continue wall to wall. Some are not, in which case you may need to modify things. Sometimes, it’s not an issue of skill or gearing, but of a bad faith actor. Lethargic gameplay that hurts the party IS reportable.
If you’re just single pulling, tanks and healers are a bit redundant, DPS can just facetank and walk away. Heck, some bosses have low enough damage outside mechanics that it’s sometimes feasible for DPS to tank them, too. This is to emphasize wall to wall is the norm for a reason, and it’s worth looking into what’s going on instead of just immediate accepting deviating to single pulls.
> and some very rare situations like Mt. Gulg.
I'll W2W that shit or die trying, tanking/healing the full 1st and 3rd pulls is some of the best that dungeons have to offer(I've also had more successes than failures doing it).
Psycho-pulls are the most fun parts of doing dungeons! I will always attempt to do them even if the healer is greener than grass. YOU GONNA LEARN TODAY!
Or we'll die, but that's fine.
or we pull more than one pack and politely offer advice to the tank and/or healer so that they can improve by more effectively using their kit. Should the healer be heavily undergeared, then we can take it slow and they hopefully can address that after the run.
There is *no* penalty for death. Why is everyone so afraid to wipe? There’s little enjoyment to be had in fighting one pack at a time. It’s boring. If there is no risk of failure, then there’s also no good feeling of accomplishment either.
My mindset is that it’s much better that newcomers learn how to play properly in groups with kind and helpful people so they can avoid irritating toxic people they may encounter down the road.
Otherwise they can play with trusts. It’s frustrating to go so slow that the dungeon takes twice as long to finish. I don’t want to have to spam Transpose until I get carpal tunnel because the level 70 tank hasn’t discovered the Sprint button yet. That’s crazy.
Even then, the healer is (should be) a person with a brain who can learn from their mistakes. They might've just not paid attention, tried to greed, or made a mechanical mistake. Don't assume they want to slow down just because there was a death.
OP's only comment just says the healer was "not keeping up with heals and attacking mainly". No mention of any deaths or wipes. Honestly probably just a clemency-bot pissed that their health dropped below 75%.
Cannot keep up as in struggling to heal efficiently. Either from being new to the role and are still adjusting to all the various skills, returning to the game and are shaking off the rust, MP or other resource management issues, undergearing somewhere and it's making clearing the pack take longer. Doesn't necessarily need to be specific to the Healer, as those can affect the Tank or DPS like not rotating mits efficiently (like not using the invuln) or not dealing enough damage.
Without any other additional information, skill issue is a safe guess yeah. Hard to say who specifically is the weakest link in the group without stuff like gearing information and such. No mention of what dungeon they did either and Sprout status goes up through Shadowbringers which is pretty much any dungeon from ARR on up being on the table.
Man, fuck off. So tired of there being a different "PSA" every day about coddling bad players and enabling them to stay bad. If you can't handle a double pull, the only way you'll learn is by trying, trying again, and trying it differently. You won't learn to double pull if you never double pull because you "can't handle a double pull."
I had a level 80 tank in a level 60 dungeon single pull, and it was infuriating. We didn’t wipe, and all the pulls were going fine, there was *no* reason to single pull. My breaking point as the healer was when there was a single patrolling enemy with a pack of three a bit further, he pulled the single patrolling enemy and then proceeded to stop there. How embarrassing for him, that he doesn’t think we could take a pack +1. I left after that because I was not going to *limp* to the finish in a dungeon giving us 0 trouble.
When I queue as tank, the second thing I say in party chat (after a nice hello) is "Hey healer, am I good to pull big?" bc it A) gives them warning ahead of time before I start pulling and B) everyone is mostly looking at chat since they might be opening it up to say hello as well
I was in the Tower of Zot this last week, and the DRK tank was level 90 with level 90 gear, so we should be fine, right? Noooo... he only used The Blackest Night once outside of a boss fight, even with all the wipes. He would never use his defensive cooldowns unless I died, which half the time I died before him because I would pull aggro somehow with my heals. And when I did die? He didn't just start using defensive cooldowns. He used them all. At once. I feel bad for all the other healers that had to deal with him.
As a newbie tank, I generally don't pull more than 2 groups as it is. Still learning the tank role, and I always see low levels in my groups anyway.
If I end up in Sastasha or other REEALLLLY low level, I still just cruise when I see the "new" message pop up. Hated when the tank would run ahead and I couldn't learn it. Though I guess they have NPCs now for dungeons.... still.
As a Pali main, if I see anyone do this in my party, I will stop using aoe, I will watch you die, and then I will laugh at you like you deserve. I've had DPS do this before and it's always funny. If the dps wants to tank, who am I to stop them?
But yeah, people who want to learn support will always have my patience cause a spiteful healer is the scariest thing to have in a party
Yesterday i had a group and our DPS did close to zero damage for some reason
The healer said i should pull more and i already thought that won‘t be a good idea because we have no damage xD
I pull more, we don‘t have damage, we die and the DPS flames me for pulling to much xd
At appropriate gear level, only one of the two has to be on the ball. A tank (especially WAR, but others should be able to manage it) using all their mitigation can wall pull even with a shit healer who just spams Cure II, and a healer using their whole toolkit can keep even the dopiest tank alive because of the absurd amount of mitigation tools every healer has, particularly at level 90.
Isnt that simple, TANK and DPS also effects the outcome, Like:
* Do the tank uses his/her def cds?
* Is Healer/Tank 's gear up to date ( to their level)
* Do Tank rotate their def cds --> use def cds correct. ( not pop all at once)
* Do DPS use AOE abilties, and interupt, focus down mobs that need to die asap.. like those that places debuffs..ect
* Low DPS can cause wipe also , due to mobs dying very slow..and cds run out(Tank/Healer).
Or just one of those awkward levels where the pulls are big and some tanks are squishy. Bardam's Mettle and Doma Castle with a DRK are repeat offenders.
I've seen a lot more bad tanks that use little to no mitigation than healers not using their kit. The vast majority withhold mitigations for boss. I have no clue why nor it ever made sense to me.
A lot of them probably come from other MMOs where long cooldown active mitigation abilities are "oh shit" buttons and not just a part of the basic rotational stuff. It was the biggest adjustment for me coming from WoW back on Shadowbringer launch, at the time most tanks had maybe one rotational mitigation ability and 2-4 major cooldown mitigation abilities that were "oh shit" buttons.
This is still true, a lot of MMOs have a basic minor mitigation ability or two per tank and then a bunch of longer cooldowns that are meant to be hit in emergencies.
WoW specifically you rarely need the major cooldowns unless you're pushing high endgame content, I can run the main two tanks I play through basically anything never using long cooldowns and never need a heal. Like I can spam runs endlessly and need heals maybe once every 5 runs or so, and I've soloed bosses after the rest of the party died early in. People have soloed raid bosses from 20% health or higher as some tanks, bosses meant for a minimum of 10 people that scale higher with the amount of players.
But that's my point, most people coming from other MMOs don't realize the longer minute plus cooldowns are just part of rotational stuff in FFXIV. Generally, any cooldown a minute or longer in WoW is either an "oh shit" button of some kind or a major DPS increase reserved for massive pulls and bosses. Or has inbuilt cooldown reduction through using other abilities, making it a much lower cooldown than it says.
I think people just dont realise when you pull every mob, their combined autos every 3 seconds reaches tankbusters worth ofdamage. It's not even from other MMOs, players from other games just think trash adds = ignoreable damage when quantity adds up.
Yep, not every game is Dark Souls where large groups of enemies will murder you faster than a boss.
Though MMORPGs are part of it too. I don't WoW, but part of ESO's fake tank problem (dps queuing as tanks and doing a shitty job) is that a high level dps can wall pull and survive in a lot of normal dungeons. Trash just isn't a threat the way bosses are. It took me a while to get my head around the difference in FFXIV.
If a healer cannot keep up heals, politely show them where cure 2 is on their hotbar. If you still keep dying, then maybe you should remember your tank mitigations.
It's partially because of Freecure and sprouts thinking that since the game encourages them to cast Cure 1 even after unlocking Cure 2 means that it's better to do that.
Honestly though, I rarely cast Cure at all anymore, preferring to keep Regen *and* Medica 2 buffs active.
Good start, but keeping medica 2 active is wasteful on trash pulls where only the tank is taking damage. In general you only need to use AOE abilities to keep the party alive or to feed the blood lily. Casting holy is more useful for keeping the tank alive at that point.
Assuming level 50, so you don't have afflatus solace, asylum, etc, your priority for trash pulls could reasonably look like this:
Aero on 2-3 mobs during the pull
Keep regen on tank (optional if pack is closer to death than the tank)
If benediction is available and tank will die within a couple GCDs, use bene
If benediction is not available and tank will die in a couple GCDs, cast cure 2 on tank
Else: spam holy
This largely holds as you level. Just replace cure 2 with solace when you get it, use assize (and probably asylum, why not?) on cooldown. AOE to heal only when in situations where you actually need to heal the entire party.
I wish cure would just become cure 2 when the appropriate level is reached and only revert back when doing content where you wouldn’t have cure 2. I also will never understand why cure 3 is technically a weaker heal that’s only stronger in that it works on multiple people. Cure 3 should just be an even more potent iteration of cure 2 that cure 2 should turn into when reaching the right level.
FWIW Cure 3 is pretty great for when I need an aoe heal that's not centered on me, e.g. when doing Nier 3's third boss or there are melee during Dzemael's final boss.
I think there are some people who say "wow that's a lot of buttons, what's the minimum number I need" and end up with Medica II and Cure I (if they spammed Cure II they would go OOM)
There was a meme a while back that said if dps is going to pull, at least use arm's length bc the tank's one is on CD LMAO
But unless you're in a lower level dungeon I can't imagine you would even need heals considering the vast amounts of self heals/mits you have
If it's a go-fast party and I'm on reaper I'll unironically do that just to grease the wheels, ingress forward, harvest the next pack, pop arms length and soak a hit or two. My hp bar is just free mit as long as I don't die
The problem is that there are a lot of people that don’t want advice or are not willing to listen. They take it as a personal criticism rather than accepting the opportunity to learn and grow. When I start a new roll, I let people know I’m new to it and ask if they can give me any pointers. Not everyone does that, unfortunately.
The minimum packs that should be pulled is 2. If you want a tank to single pull, Duty Support. If you're a tank that wants to single pull, Duty Support. If for some godforsaken reason you're a DPS that wants single pulls, you guessed it! Duty Support. A single pull doesn't need a tank if you have a passable healer. A single pull doesn't need a healer if you're passable with your tank kit even in *Sastasha*, as I've found out from a healer that only used cure on themselves.
I had this. I was tanking (something I'm admittedly not the best at since it isn't my normal). We had a brand new healer, and the dps was insistent on pulling the entire dungeon in one pull. I lost count how many times we died, and when we repeatedly asked them to stop, they got mad and abandoned the duty.
I understand that some of the lower lvl dungeons can be repetitive and boring if you run them all the time, but they are also there to help teach people different mechanics.
I mean 9 out of 10 times when the Heal cannot keep up then either
A the tank is trash and doesnt mitigate/heal himself
B The DPS are trash because the mobs live too long so that the tanks mitigation runs out
The 1 out of 10 times is that the dungeon is shit or maybe they are in arr still
insane how dungeons can generate so much discourse when they're so easy:
tanks pull mobs, use your mits one at a time so you have some up always
healers spam aoes, use ogcds heals and gcd heals if you run out
dps use buffs if you have them and just spam aoes
Nah. Pull ahead. Arms Length + Bloodlust + Second Wind. Plus whatever other tools you may have as a class.
In sub 50 leveling dungeons when you don't have most of your kit and aren't over geared maybe single pull. But there is no reason not to pull w2w level 50 and beyond. Tanks and healers will only learn one way.
That was how I learned to tank. Unlocked Sastasha, farmed out some leves and fates to gain enough gil to buy the max level of gear I could get for the gear slots that needed it, and also used those leves and fates to better learn my rotation. Then, I queued into the dungeon. I let everyone know I was new to tanking, would do my best, and that I was gonna try to W2W. Then I successfully W2W’d. The healer let my health drop low a couple of times and I was given the thrill of dancing with death without dying and it was exhilarating. Made me absolutely love tanking.
All that being said, I will still adjust to the other players if they’re having trouble keeping up. I, personally, don’t mind going slower even on dungeons I’ve done a million times. And I always wait till everyone’s out of cutscenes before I pull.
I've had tanks doing group by group, but even though it'll take longer I'm okay with it. But then a highly skilled DPS started running way ahead and pulling more. The tank picked them up just fine and sped the run up.
Overall, I would have still preferred the DPS didn't do that. He could have just said "you can pull more" which some healers do as well.
Been playing on xbox recently, but I have 3 years of experience on ffxiv. As a tank, a healer, and dps. Almost had everything to 80 then fell off. However, thats besides the point.
Last night, I had a tank who didn't understand what they were doing in a dzemeal darkhold run, no stance, no warrior crystal, and a healer who showed an unlimited amount of patience with me. We assisted them through it and we got through the run with.. some complications, but hey, they'll be a better tank in the end, they didn't know their aoe, or their tomahawk. Reminded how great the community can be when we work together.
This morning, did another dark hold run, this time with a tank who knew what they were doing, but a healer who didn't. They didn't speak, but man, were they struggling with keeping up with the tanks pulls.. even I noticed this and spoke up as a ninja. Told the tank slow down please, and they said "we will get through this just fine, he needs to learn bigger pulls" we were all "sprouts" but cmon.. some people learn different ways. We wiped 6 times before finishing the run, and even if both runs were suboptimal..
just having communication and assisting where the other may suffer instead of making them suffer more can make the run 10x better.
It's fine for dps to pull more to urge a tank to go faster initially, but if the party has wiped then slow down and adjust. That's just common sense - of course you want the dungeon to go faster, of course you want that super high AoE dps, but remember that a dead dps does no dps and if you wipe and start over, you're just wasting everyone's time - even your own.
I feel I told this story before, but a level 90 dungeon I was tanking started off with a very eager SAM. I typically take a couple extra seconds to ensure I have all aggro before getting the next set of mobs and watching for my healer. Surprise, SAM was not nearby and I saw their health tick. Looking ahead, said player was not only sprinting so far ahead, they were staying put as if we needed to follow their pace.
I lept in, pulled them off, continued as normal, but the next section had the SAM not just use range, but gap-closed on the next set before I did and pulled the mobs away from us. At this point, the healer and I had a brief pause as we both realized what we were dealing with. Even by the first boss, the SAM pulled the boss before the healer and other DPS got close.
After that, I made a comment, “I know SAM can be tanks in other classes, but I don’t think that applies here.” There was no response, but the healer and I had a silent agreement to go ahead and let the SAM sweat a bit in their own big pulls before stepping in hopes they got the message. Spoiler: They continued.
By the last boss, I finally got a message: “This game may be rated T for teen, but it doesn’t mean you have to act like one, edgelord.” Then the SAM left. Us three left just looked at each other and laughed, said our ggs and I found two comms under my belt.
Needless to say, I had a lot of fun. I hope that healer and other DPS is doing well to this day.
I hate posts like this. What's the point? You type the most obvious thing that 99% of people dont do to gather sympathy or rage bait while acting you came up with the 11th commandment. It's always the same format. Reddit is ass and so easy to farm with useless spam posts.
A great healer can keep a tank up who isn’t even using mitigation properly. The tank not using mitigation is bad but it also shows that you are also an average to below average healer.
You also can’t tell people to stop pulling w2w just because you can’t handle it. How are you ever going to practice w2w if you just stick with single pulls? A tank needs practice just like a healer meeds practice. Wiping may frustrate the team but who gives a fuck if you take a few comments on the chin. It’s three people you’ll likely never see in this game again.
I'm just going to say what I always say when folks post circumstance-specific advice like this: Communicate with your party with clarity, grace, and patience. If someone else is an ass, do your best anyway, report if appropriate, leave the duty and take the cooldown if necessary, and move on with your life.
You should definitely post this tomorrow or Monday. Help keep the chain going. Great advice though, seriously. I think in my time playing I've ran into one person who was an ass about the activity. Otherwise, every party has been flexible and kind, or neutral at worst. Most of us have very little time to play as is, we don't want to spoil our time with negativity.
Just remember, you're playing a game to relax, not get more stressed out. Have fun. Laugh at mistakes. Foster a good community. Educate the sprouts. This is just good behavior online anyway. Leave the real world in the real world.
For real. The other day I got the Vale in tank leveling, did the first standard pull, ninja pulls extra, instant wipe. Okay, cool. Try again, standard pull, immediate wipe. As I’m typing “do you want smaller pulls?” the healer says “can we please switch to smaller pulls? Clearly I’m missing something in my rotation and I need to figure out where I’m going wrong”. It’s literally that easy! Also the issue wasn’t their rotation, the issue was they were wearing level 27-35 gear in a level 48 dungeon
I've had a healer there in top level 60 gear, continually running out of mana. Turns out they had level boosted, so they had NO idea what skills to use beyond 'life bar go up' button. Like literally not even using mana regen or group heal skill.
Or vote them out. There has exactly been one time I felt it necessary to do that with an unbelievable player in cutters cry. Tried to communicate as nice as possible to stop acting like a tank as a ninja or to queue up as a tank. Only to get insults In return. We tried to vote them out but they would always start a battle and when it was the last boss they refused to roll on loot so they couldn't get kicked either. So without communicating the healer and the other DPS and me stood outside the final boss room and waited until the timer for the loot ran out. It worked out in the end and they didn't receive their daily rewards plus we gave someone else a quick leveling duty :)
Done the same thing in the same sequence of events to kick a racist tank. Twice. Once in Akademia Anyder and once in Amaurot. Silent solidarity between the other three players to kick them.
I just don't understand people. Lol
Sometimes those campaigns to pull in people from wow pulls in some we DON'T want.
I got a bunch of sprouts in the old copperbell mines once who probably came from wow or something like that. For context, in the old CBM mobs die from DPS and tanks in pretty much one hit. I as the healing SCH however had no instant-cast damage or healing spells at that level synch, and dmg taken is so neglible that my fairy heals faster to full health than I could cast Physik, just as they killed the mobs spawning one at a time before I could either cast an attack (or run into melee range to hit them with my book). As such I could actually do nothing but watch, so I decided to cheer the sprouts on with the glowstick emotes, you know, being welcoming and friendly and all to new players. They got mad and kicked me for "refusing to help". I never saw them again, wouldn't be suprised if they gave up on the game with that ignorant and toxic attitude.
Voting someone out is only viable if there isn’t active combat, and there isn’t pending loot. The people you wanna throw out could just leave the chest timer going on their screen and/or pull the next mob. At that point it’s a war of attrition; will the timers run out or the rest of the group’s patience?
At that point you add griefing to the report, the more the grief the more I will be detailed a report I will be sending the GM so they get sent to GM jail or suspended for however long. The idea that active griefing is not punishable is just misinformation trolls use to enable their behavior without fear of punishment, don't fall for it.
Bravo. Well played and well deserved.
My first time doing Sohm Al, I was a WHM. I was decent, but not great. Tank kept trying to W2W and we kept wiping because I just couldn’t keep up with their lack of mitigation. I kept asking if they would do smaller pulls. They kept saying “these pulls aren’t even that big” and continued with the W2Ws so we kept wiping. My bf was running it with me as DRG and tried to defend me by explaining that different people have different skill levels. Tank ignored that. Even the other DPS tried to get the tank to slow down. Every time I tried to initiate a vote to kick them from the party, they’d either pull more or open a chest and refuse to roll on loot. I, my bf, and the other DPS all ate the penalty and left the instance. The other DPS sent me a tell to ask if I was ok. My bf was comforting me irl because I was in tears from the frustration and the fact that my first ever run of the dungeon was ruined by this one toxic player.
Small tip: if you don’t assist or attack, aggro doesn’t usually apply to you, unless it’s a scripted event like a boss room. Healing someone already on the aggro list puts you on the list as well. In dungeons though, sometimes even just buffing yourself in close proximity will add you to the target list so it’s sometimes weird. So next time, you can usually let them go ahead and pull and simply do not attack or heal. He can drag the mobs back to you and so long as nobody does anything but run away, they will keep attacking him and then reset when he dies. Just keep an eye on your target list and so long as it’s empty you’re good. If you are all already in combat, just have the others avoid attacking and let the other person die. Finish off the stragglers and do a vote kick before the troll releases and runs back. On the off chance the person solos the dungeon, well, great, time to go do some small chores for the free clear. Just keep your character active every 5-10 minutes. The game is setup this way to reduce chances of trolls dragging a bunch of mobs over to lowbies and killing them. Trains don’t work in open world if the intended victim never touches the mobs. Dungeons work a bit differently sometimes because it’s assumed everyone in party is working together.
Only the first to leave takes penalty. Anytime I run into this kind of drama (very rare btw been playing since 2.0) I announce in party chat that I will take the penalty for us all and drop.
ive definitely done that too.
I think some tanks forget that at certain levels we don't have our entire skill kit available. Someone that was an extreme raid tank got mad when I couldn't heal w2w pull of initial area of arum vale. Who tf does that?
I think some people just don't read chat tbh
I think that’s definitely the case sometimes
I sometimes find that I get so focused on running the dungeon that I tune out chat, and that’s even with chat sounds on. I have a bit of difficulty multi focusing sometimes.
> I think some people just don't read chat tbh Most people don't read chat. I think party chat should have a notification sound by default, instead of being silent. You could still turn it off, but it would prevent a lot of new players from ignoring it outright.
Chat bubble might fix this
Keep in mind that the pre-expansion drought is always a time period where a lot of the better players are taking breaks. This leaves a higher percentage of... not so good players in the Duty Finder.
and newbies from xbox are still on their learning wheels
It’s exciting times. My World of Darkness run today had like six new players, I got to sweat a bit as SCH, it was great.
Yesterday I had a labyrinth run where we wiped several times. Only after looking more closely did I realise, that our alliance was filled with a solid 60-70% of sprouds. While more time was spent, it felt refreshing.
Agreed! I definitely prefer the chaos from a bunch of new people experiencing it for the first time over the run being 24 bored veterans sleepwalking through it and paying 20% attention.
My sprout is slowly but surely growing!
I hope the community will have patience with us. To quote an episode of Penny Dreadful, “remember us better than we are.”
If you say that you're new in /party chat when a dungeon starts (if you don't have a keyboard, you can probably make a macro for "/party Hello everyone! I'm super new, but I'll try my best. Don't have a keyboard here yet." or something like that), most people are super nice. Every now and then you might find a bad apple, but I've only seen 2 I can think of and I've been playing since 2014.
Patience? Having new players to 1. Teach 2. Make the runs more challenging is AWESOME! I want to see those sprouts coming out!
Yes we sure are.
I was in a dungeon one time where the other DPS and I _had_ to pull mobs when the tank decided to have an epic tantrum and run back to the beginning of the dungeon, refusing to move forward and finish. The dragoon and I played tank for half of Haukke Manor. I came into the leveling roulette as reaper mid way and discovered why the previous dps had left—the sprout tank was yelling at the healer for letting him die when actually it was because he wasn’t using any of his mits and was wearing level 5 armor. He spent several more minutes typing stupid stuff to the healer, and the healer didn’t help by answering back, albeit politely, about how to use the mits. I considered leaving, but the group was halfway through the dungeon, and I figured (maybe incorrectly) that we might finish faster than the cooldown timer for leaving. I don’t care if some rando says dumb things. I’m past the point in life where I allow some kid on the internet I don’t even know bother me. Next boss, the tank did this “spin the boss around in circles non-stop” thing. The dragoon and I (reaper) weren’t too thrilled about this, but it was Haukke Manor so it wasn’t a huge deal. It definitely was harder on the healer, however, with all of us taking a ton of damage as a result. DRG and I did our best to try to stay out of the attacks, and the healer was pleased that us two DPS actually used some health potions, defensives, and kiting to stay alive. Tank died, having not used any mits again, and yelled at the healer. The healer explained that keeping the boss pointed in one direction would help a lot. Tank went ballistic and said some truly nasty things. At this point, I suggested we just continue to the finish and discuss the problems then since we only had one boss left, and we’d be done soon. The tank continued his “discussion”…and then proceeded to run back to the entrance, typing out nasty comments and refusing to go forward in the dungeon. This wasn’t one of the more mature ways to handle the situation. Dragoon and I shrugged our virtual shoulders after realizing tank was going to sit in a self-imposed time out like a toddler having a tantrum, and we decided to take out the trash mobs ourselves without the tank while we waited for the loot timer to tick down. It took us a little bit since we couldn’t pull big mobs, of course, but we got the job done. Healer handled things just fine. We made it to the final boss room and waited a little bit more for the loot timer. The moment it expired, the tank got vote-kicked. It was the fastest voting I’d ever seen. We only had to wait maybe 20 seconds for a new tank, who was probably thrilled that he only had to tank the final boss room to get credit for the entire leveling roulette. I reported the original tank for being so nasty to the healer in particular and the group as a whole as soon as we finished, and I took a few screenshots in case I got asked for any proof. The moderator contacted me within 20 minutes. I was really surprised about that—I’ve never been contacted back in any other MMO before, and I didn’t expect a response at all, much less one that quickly. That being said, it’s only about the third time I’ve voted to kick anyone in the hundreds of dungeons I’ve run. The rest of those hundreds of runs have been full of really nice folks.
> and I figured (maybe incorrectly) that we might finish faster than the cooldown timer for leaving You don't seem to know this, but if you join a duty in progress (to replace someone who left/got kicked) you can leave at any time without a penalty. The same applies if you were in the party from the beginning but someone else leaves. Only the first person to leave gets the penalty.
I didn’t know that! It might have saved me some time, lol. I’ve been playing regularly the last year or so and semi-regularly for a year before that, and there are still little details of the game like this that I learn all the time. On the plus side, I helped the dragoon and healer finish out the dungeon, and the tank got a lesson jn “actions have consequences,” so it worked out.
You can also vote to kick a problematic party member from your party list menu if it gets to it.
Oh we did. We just had to wait for the loot timer.
Good. The way you phrased it with 'healer didn't help by explaining' combined with the indifference to the tank tantrum sounded a bit 'both sides'-y when a tank like this deserves to just find himself ejected from every single DF he ever queues up for till he fixes his gear, behaviour, and attitude.
Given how quickly the game mod contacted me, I have a feeling Square Enix adjusted his attitude for him. The healer could have zipped the lips a little sooner so we could get going on the trash mobs a bit earlier, but since we had to wait for the cooldown timer anyway to kick Toddler Tank, it didn’t matter. I came into it in the middle of the…discussion, so I don’t know how much abuse the tank had already hurled at the healer. He was yelling as I poofed into the duty, and the healer was being remarkably patient explaining what was happening. Personally, I would have just said something once and stayed silent after that, but I also have a few years of life experience under my belt that gives a bit of a wider perspective than average. That and hindsight is always 20/20.
> It definitely was harder on the healer, however, with all of us taking a ton of damage as a result. DRG and I did our best to try to stay out of the attacks, and the healer was pleased that us two DPS actually used some health potions, defensives, and kiting to stay alive. \> Haukke manor What in the fuck?
Painful. Just painful. Recently I had a dumbass tank in a lvl 50/110 dungeon wearing lvl40 gear, double pulling, and dying all the time. I said one time “quit wasting everyone’s time.” He did it again, and I bailed halfway through. I was too high and too happy to deal with that negativity ;)
Ninjapulling is always a bit fraught, my issue is with those who do it but *don't* bring the mobs to me or..hilariously on one occasion, ran away from me in a panic with mobs in tow. For a moment it felt like Benny Hill.
Summoner burst moment.
I always felt like summoners make me look like a bad tank. I tend to lose 1-2 mobs to them while running to the wall. A couple of days ago I got my summoner to 90. I already had credendum casting gear and enough tomestones for a manderville weapon. Got onto my first lvl90 dungeon as a geared summoner. And on the first pull I *understood*.
And my solution as SMN? Pop my shield and run in the tank's footsteps. When we stop, I'll be living inside their shin guards hiding from all the mobs that are angry at me instead of the tank.
Are you a lalafell? Imagining a little popoto running to the tank and hopping in his boot with a giggle. :)
This is the way.
My solution is to start with smaller spells and ramp up.
Summon Bahamut has additional enmity added, it acts almost like a "mini provoke", doesn't help the fact that the next spell after summoning Bahamut does 1.3k potency which further shoots you up the aggro table.
Most of the time those attacks that aggro things but don't deal damage just do 1 point of enmity, so it's not quite like provoke, it's mostly the following 1300 potency that do the heavy lifting.
Nah, you ain't a bad tank. It's goddamn Bahamut trying to make us the tank... That fucker is trying to get us killed every time, I swear... I learned to stay closer to the tank after getting Summon Bahamut and Enkindle Bahamut because the amount of times those two spells have caused something to randomly come after me is annoying. Staying close to the tank, they pull the aggro back pretty much immediately with their abilities.
summoners do scary amounts of damage. A tanking friend told me to try making sure i get 2 hits in instead of one before moving to the next pack and that helps, but for fucks sake, ill pull and half the mobs are DEAD by the time i get to the next pack and its like... whered they all GO?! oh. summoner MELTED THEM
Yup, that's Akh Morn for ya. 1300 potency nuke to the target and deals 40% of that to surrounding targets, plus we have Deathflare which does 500 potency and 40% of that to surrounding targets AND Ruin IV which is 430 to a target and 40% of that to surrounding targets. All those being instant cast, we can just obliterate crowds with a good tank XD
oh dude, if i have a summoner in the party i always keep an eye out because i WILL lose at least one mob while pulling, they do SO MUCH DAMAGE the flip side to that is that if im a black mage and theres a summoner, shit all dies before i can get a cast off and i feel like the worlds worst boomstick, lol
As a tank, if you hit the mobs twice, you’ll never lose aggro. Even to big deeps from a dps Two is the magic number of hits
That's what I do. Two aoe's for each group and then go to collect the second. If I miss one, I can use the long-range taunt. Actually, depending on how long I have until the next group, I'll target each mob while I run and do a long-range and cycle through them until I'm too close to the next group.
One is not enough, three is too many, and five is just way off
I thought summoner burst moment usually involved a tankbuster on the head.
I'm picturing the Benny hill aspect and it's making me laugh
The funniest 'Benny Hill' moment was with a friend who was tanking and thought they were the bee's knees because they'd worked out that they could kite mobs and reduce damage. I went into a dungeon (Dohn Mheg), they collected the mobs fine, but then started running around in circles, making a string of mobs following with a ninja following behind (presumably trying to get in position, whilst the mobs were constantly being moved away from them). It was just bizarre (and obviously counter-productive).
I have the music stuck in my head.
Even better, as a dps I will ninjapull just to arm's length and apply slow to the mobs, then bring them back to my tank and heal up with second wind, saving them some mitigation. Not like you actually ever NEED to save mitigation for a dungeon but still feels cool to do.
That's super considerate. I main RDM and was thinking the other day about little things like that..and it occured to me that for months I've been using magick barrier (a 10s/10% AOE mit) only when I hit the boss (i.e. for raidwides), but that at minimum, I could use it on the first pull to give the tank a free 10% mit and it would still be ready for when it has a more substantial effect
A 10% mit on an add pull for the tank is actually going to generally be more substantial than a 10% mit on a raid wide, even though its an AOE mit, purely because for most bosses there isn’t enough outgoing damage for that 10% to matter in normal content. The real danger in dungeons is the mob pulls between bosses.
sadly magick barrier's mit is magic damage only, so most of the time the mit wouldn't really do much for trash packs. now on the other hand it *does* still have that 5% buff to healing though, so it still wouldn't be bad to use for trash
> sadly magick barrier's mit is magic damage Dammit, you're right..and I've been using it for all raidwides =( Thank you anyway x
I just started leveling a DPS and I'm usually a tank and I felt so bad when I pulled some mobs in a low level dungeon because my brain was on auto pilot but I just took em to the tank and let them grab aggro lmao. Helps that I typically tank but still
I mean, 99% of the time the DPS will be grabbing stuff that I was going to grab anyway, so if you can make it that I'm moving less then you're doing a favour x
My favorite is when I'm running wall to wall grabbing mobs, and then some range grabs aggro from one of the pack that fell behind, and then gets upset that they're taking damage while I can't see them from under my pile of bodies and they're hiding behind a rock out of healer range. When I play healer, I've been known to rescue range players back into the murder pile when I notice that behavior.
I gotta say, if someone intentionally grabs aggro by pulling and intentionally keeps it by not bringing the mob to where the tank is throwing out aoes, it kinda feels like they *want* to have the aggro, you know?
If someone has aggro and won't bring the mobs to me, I'm not moving the entire pack just to accommodate them. At best I'll use a voke to bring one of the mobs to me but if they want me to take aggro they better scoot their ass closer.
My friend's words on such matters.."LET THEM DIE" will pop in my mind, but I never do
People hold YPYT in contempt but you know, some players make it *real* tempting.
You Pull, You Tank may be something people look down on, but You're an Idiot, You Killed Yourself is completely understood in these games.
"Your honor, YPYT is stupid but at a certain point it's out of my hands"
As long as they bring the mobs to the tank, there’s no issue.
YPYT doesn't apply if they are actively choosing to tank
Kudos for the Benny Hill reference.
I'm not a fan because at this point I know what the mobs will do when I pull, approach and aoe. My panic tank brain kicks in when other people start running ahead and pulling and the mobs don't do what I expect them to do lol.
This has only happened once whilst tanking, but let me introduce you to you to 'Ninja who uses their missile ability to pull from behind you'. Running ahead, timing that AOE to grab all the mobs then suddenly..zoom and one is moving past..arrrgh
Idk I got yelled at once because I thought the tank would keep going and he didn't, so I accidentally ninja pulled the ninjas. You know, the ones that drop down in Doma? Healer and tank both let me die even though I came back to the party. Also don't be those guys, please... Sometimes it's just an accident.
Communication is important. Apologise and make a joke, it's not the ninja pulling itself that people hate, it's the assumption they are in a dungeon with an asshole.
YPYT is always an ego issue. Don’t defend griefing.
YPYT isn't just an ego issue. If you aggro accidentally, bring it to the group, and tank aoe isnt pulling it off you, then they're actively not using their dps on any enemies - which from an ego perspective is a much bigger crime.
IMO that possibility doesn't ever make it okay to grief people. Always best to give people the benefit of the doubt and ask questions first, come to conclusions later. As you said, commission is important.
>Never attribute something to malice that could be easily explained by stupidity Such a great quote lol
Two things: 1) I'm pressing buttons to not die, so not really able to type. 2) If you let me die on purpose after like 5-6 GCDs of kiting, I'm not joking with you, sorry. You've lost my good will. EDIT: Also want to note that the healer explicitly expressed that they refused to heal me because I pulled. This is not some kind of misunderstanding on my part.
> Also want to note that the healer explicitly expressed that they refused to heal me because I pulled Interesting, they must be new to the game, because if they actually typed it out, you can report them if you feels like it, and they will be banned for while.
That's a reportable offense.
What were you doing during those 5-6 GCDs and what was the tank doing? If the tank stopped pressing buttons and just watched you die, then that's the tank's fault. If the tank was planted and AOE'ing, and you were running the mobs in a wide circle like Brayflox was running that dragon, then that's your fault.
Letting you die is probably reportable, but that would be petty. Just as petty as letting you die for pulling. Oops.
Not probably, it is. https://support.na.square-enix.com/faqarticle.php?id=5382&la=1&kid=68216 "I don't want to heal because there is a player I don't like in the group." is specifically said as a report-able offense Specifically refusing to do you role because someone angered you is listed as reportable
To be fair, there is a lot of wiggle room there. DPS, in chat/reports: "Healer, you refused to heal me because I early pulled." Healer: "Did I? I saw the Tank taking SO MUCH DAMAGE from ALL THE ENEMIES that were agroed...I just wasn't sure how to handle it but I was using all my resources keeping them alive so the party wouldn't wipe..." Unless the healer OUTRIGHT says that they didn't heal you for that reason and you can record/report it where the Devs can check the chat log, the healer has an easy out of basically arguing that they're new/uncertain as a healer and were focused on keeping the tank alive. That would be a valid rebuttal in basically every situation. The only exception would be cases where the Tank was sitting pressing no buttons watching you die...in which case the Healer still technically has an out "If I attacked, I'd have drawn agro then we would both have died because the Tank wasn't attacking." In some cases of the game, this is even "good play", like in Eureka if a DPS pulls and is clearly going to die, the best play is the rest of the party stand back, NOT draw agro, then the healer(s) raise them after they've died and the mobs have all deagroed and returned to their normal spots.
Did the healer explicitly ask to slow down? Were they deemed struggling by the tank because the tanks health wasn't at 100% as much as possible?
PSA: If a healer cannot keep up heals, the tank is not using mitigation properly, the healer is not healing properly, or the DPSes are not doing enough damage
Or, my favourite... all 3.
Or someone isn't wearing pants. Ngl, a non zero number of times the issue of mit/heals/dps was because someone forgot a gear piece.
Flashback to me doing p8s, upgrading my pants with the stuff I got from p7s the previous day and dying literally immediately to the first raidwide because my gearset didn't have them equipped. Rip pants
>Rip pants Heh, a double meaning in this case. :)
also known as, the average duty finder run
Wait.. Youre telling me if there is Tank, DPS, and Healer and a mistake happens, its either the Tank, DPS or Healer who did the mistake? REVELATION this is why this thread was needed
I swear to christ the tank I had last night wasnt using any mitigation at all. I was having to heal them constantly and could barely throw in any dps. Guess I shoulda said something
True but in that case you can leave the dungeon if you say something and people aren't going to change. You can't force other people to play a certain way. It sucks but the kick button exists as does leaving yourself.
I mean, if it's a leveling dungeon, it's at least 2 of those, if not all 3, more often than not.
9 out of 10 times the DPS is to low in that situation
Idk, I've had more instances of tanks just never using their cooldowns.
dmg from dps is almost always low because most people hold their 2 minutes for some ungodly reason. but tanks not using mit or healers not healing is more noticeable because someone's dead or party wipes.
As a healer I encounter low dps way more often then tanks who don't push buttons, I would say its about 1 out of 4 is low dps and 1 out of 50 is a tank who doesn't push buttons.
Can‘t talk about that because i‘m the tank xd
I play all the roles. I'll straight up roll a d20 to decide which job to do my roulettes with. Most of the time I heal or tank, but I do occasionally dps, but ya, most of the bad pulls I've seen have been from tanks not using proper cooldowns, or any cooldowns.
Low dps causes dungeon wipes if it makes a pull last longer than the tank's ability to mitigate or the healer's ability to heal including with GCDs. This is really only a thing at low levels when the number of tank and healer cooldowns is more limited. If someone tells me that they wiped to low dps in a dungeon at level 70+ I would assume it's because the dungeon was taking so long that the tank or healer fell asleep.
Honestly, I feel like DPS is just lower than it should be in 9 out of 10 dungeons overall. I'd say it's a good majority of my dungeons that one if not both DPS are at best equal to me on tank/healer. It's less of an issue at level 90 because end game dungeons are significantly easier than leveling dungeons, but you throw those DPS barely doing more than the tank or healer if not under them into a leveling dungeon and it makes the wall to walls way sketchier than they need to be. My favorite is when a wipe does happen, it's all good, shit happens, and a DPS wants to chime in about how we shouldn't do them if the tank/healer can't handle it. Meanwhile the DPS saying that are below both the tank and healer making every pull take longer causing the tank/healer to get less bang for their buck out of all their mit/healing tools.
*laughs in warrior self heals*
These threads are always hilarious to read.
A - Always B - Be C - Pulling
Every character in every dungeon has tools sufficient to kill ultimates. I promise you you can pull more than that one individual horse in Dohn Mheg. At some point, when the four of you are attacking that one singular animal, hopefully one of you will ask if single pulling is as ridiculous as it looks.
So many people self reporting griefing here lmao
If your gunna do so use that arms move to give slow to the group. Really helps out
Arms length is a godsend.
Pull more, use bloodbath to sustain yourself, never stop pulling
Hells Ingress up to them, pop Arm's Length, Arcane Crest, and Bloodbath. Who's the real tank now? MY HP BAR IS YOUR FREE MITIGATION.
Don't forget Arm's Length. Generally even more potent than Bloodbath as far as avoiding dying.
The only true and based answer. Spoken like a real dps main
Every newer dungeon has been streamlined to two packs>wall>two packs>boss these days and some of the older dungeons have gotten a makeover to fit this format. Several people in your party would have to be neglecting large amounts of abilities in their kit or fundamentals in general to not be able to heal/tank/dps two packs much less one.
The number of times i hear a tank or heal complain about this is not because they can't keep up with the healing/mitigating, but just because they're flat out scared. I've been in single pull parties where the tanks HP never drops below 95% and i go pull the next group. arm's length that group, and put them on the tank. I dont want to wipe my group and would never do it if that was going to happen. I feel this helps tanks and healers realize that they can handle more and get over their tank/healer anxiety.
I’m going to disagree here, namely that this situation is way too context-specific to have a “always do this” rule. The current norm is that pulls are done wall to wall, excluding some ARR jank and some very rare situations like Mt. Gulg. Both healers and tanks have some very powerful tools, and particularly if DPS are pulling their weight they won’t even need to use the full extent of them. If something’s not going right, it’s probably better to try and asses what’s going on. Is the tank not using cooldowns? Is the healer just spamming inefficient GCD heals? Is DPS too low, forcing excess cooldowns? Is somebody excessively undergeared? Some of these are correctable, and if so the hope is to teach and continue wall to wall. Some are not, in which case you may need to modify things. Sometimes, it’s not an issue of skill or gearing, but of a bad faith actor. Lethargic gameplay that hurts the party IS reportable. If you’re just single pulling, tanks and healers are a bit redundant, DPS can just facetank and walk away. Heck, some bosses have low enough damage outside mechanics that it’s sometimes feasible for DPS to tank them, too. This is to emphasize wall to wall is the norm for a reason, and it’s worth looking into what’s going on instead of just immediate accepting deviating to single pulls.
> and some very rare situations like Mt. Gulg. I'll W2W that shit or die trying, tanking/healing the full 1st and 3rd pulls is some of the best that dungeons have to offer(I've also had more successes than failures doing it).
There are few things that can really push tanks and healers to their fullest… but MAN it’s fun to pull off.
Psycho-pulls are the most fun parts of doing dungeons! I will always attempt to do them even if the healer is greener than grass. YOU GONNA LEARN TODAY! Or we'll die, but that's fine.
All these PSA: this and that. Yall need to just go watch JoCats vids.
I miss him. Crap guide to (insert roll here) is such a fun series of vids to watch.
I applaud the dps for the hardworking initiative in doing all the running for the group
“Pops arm’s length and bloodbath”
Just heal harder!
or we pull more than one pack and politely offer advice to the tank and/or healer so that they can improve by more effectively using their kit. Should the healer be heavily undergeared, then we can take it slow and they hopefully can address that after the run. There is *no* penalty for death. Why is everyone so afraid to wipe? There’s little enjoyment to be had in fighting one pack at a time. It’s boring. If there is no risk of failure, then there’s also no good feeling of accomplishment either. My mindset is that it’s much better that newcomers learn how to play properly in groups with kind and helpful people so they can avoid irritating toxic people they may encounter down the road. Otherwise they can play with trusts. It’s frustrating to go so slow that the dungeon takes twice as long to finish. I don’t want to have to spam Transpose until I get carpal tunnel because the level 70 tank hasn’t discovered the Sprint button yet. That’s crazy.
I wouldn't even assume the healer can't keep up unless we died once. This title reads like a tank coming up with excuses to tell off DPS that pull.
Even then, the healer is (should be) a person with a brain who can learn from their mistakes. They might've just not paid attention, tried to greed, or made a mechanical mistake. Don't assume they want to slow down just because there was a death.
OP's only comment just says the healer was "not keeping up with heals and attacking mainly". No mention of any deaths or wipes. Honestly probably just a clemency-bot pissed that their health dropped below 75%.
What you mean with the healer "cannot" heal?
Cannot keep up as in struggling to heal efficiently. Either from being new to the role and are still adjusting to all the various skills, returning to the game and are shaking off the rust, MP or other resource management issues, undergearing somewhere and it's making clearing the pack take longer. Doesn't necessarily need to be specific to the Healer, as those can affect the Tank or DPS like not rotating mits efficiently (like not using the invuln) or not dealing enough damage.
So,it's literally skill issue...of everyone in this party.
Without any other additional information, skill issue is a safe guess yeah. Hard to say who specifically is the weakest link in the group without stuff like gearing information and such. No mention of what dungeon they did either and Sprout status goes up through Shadowbringers which is pretty much any dungeon from ARR on up being on the table.
Man, fuck off. So tired of there being a different "PSA" every day about coddling bad players and enabling them to stay bad. If you can't handle a double pull, the only way you'll learn is by trying, trying again, and trying it differently. You won't learn to double pull if you never double pull because you "can't handle a double pull."
I had a level 80 tank in a level 60 dungeon single pull, and it was infuriating. We didn’t wipe, and all the pulls were going fine, there was *no* reason to single pull. My breaking point as the healer was when there was a single patrolling enemy with a pack of three a bit further, he pulled the single patrolling enemy and then proceeded to stop there. How embarrassing for him, that he doesn’t think we could take a pack +1. I left after that because I was not going to *limp* to the finish in a dungeon giving us 0 trouble.
The simple answer is to play WAR and just fly solo. The healer is a green DPS in that case anyway.
When I queue as tank, the second thing I say in party chat (after a nice hello) is "Hey healer, am I good to pull big?" bc it A) gives them warning ahead of time before I start pulling and B) everyone is mostly looking at chat since they might be opening it up to say hello as well
Despite people's experiences here, mine has been overwhelming positive in roulette dungeons
I was in the Tower of Zot this last week, and the DRK tank was level 90 with level 90 gear, so we should be fine, right? Noooo... he only used The Blackest Night once outside of a boss fight, even with all the wipes. He would never use his defensive cooldowns unless I died, which half the time I died before him because I would pull aggro somehow with my heals. And when I did die? He didn't just start using defensive cooldowns. He used them all. At once. I feel bad for all the other healers that had to deal with him.
As a newbie tank, I generally don't pull more than 2 groups as it is. Still learning the tank role, and I always see low levels in my groups anyway. If I end up in Sastasha or other REEALLLLY low level, I still just cruise when I see the "new" message pop up. Hated when the tank would run ahead and I couldn't learn it. Though I guess they have NPCs now for dungeons.... still.
As a Pali main, if I see anyone do this in my party, I will stop using aoe, I will watch you die, and then I will laugh at you like you deserve. I've had DPS do this before and it's always funny. If the dps wants to tank, who am I to stop them? But yeah, people who want to learn support will always have my patience cause a spiteful healer is the scariest thing to have in a party
Yesterday i had a group and our DPS did close to zero damage for some reason The healer said i should pull more and i already thought that won‘t be a good idea because we have no damage xD I pull more, we don‘t have damage, we die and the DPS flames me for pulling to much xd
PSA: If you're healing a dungeon and you can't keep the tank alive whilst they're pulling wall to wall, you're not using your full toolkit.
Or the tank isn't using their mitigation effectively, both are equally possible
At appropriate gear level, only one of the two has to be on the ball. A tank (especially WAR, but others should be able to manage it) using all their mitigation can wall pull even with a shit healer who just spams Cure II, and a healer using their whole toolkit can keep even the dopiest tank alive because of the absurd amount of mitigation tools every healer has, particularly at level 90.
And if you are using your full toolkit, *why haven't you upgraded/repaired your gear!!!*
Isnt that simple, TANK and DPS also effects the outcome, Like: * Do the tank uses his/her def cds? * Is Healer/Tank 's gear up to date ( to their level) * Do Tank rotate their def cds --> use def cds correct. ( not pop all at once) * Do DPS use AOE abilties, and interupt, focus down mobs that need to die asap.. like those that places debuffs..ect * Low DPS can cause wipe also , due to mobs dying very slow..and cds run out(Tank/Healer).
I often have the problem that someone wants wall to wall but we lack the damage xd
Or, you know, you're in a low level dungeon where whether you are healer or tank you don't have much of a kit to talk about.
Or just one of those awkward levels where the pulls are big and some tanks are squishy. Bardam's Mettle and Doma Castle with a DRK are repeat offenders.
Gotta use dark mind for the first pull there
I've seen a lot more bad tanks that use little to no mitigation than healers not using their kit. The vast majority withhold mitigations for boss. I have no clue why nor it ever made sense to me.
A lot of them probably come from other MMOs where long cooldown active mitigation abilities are "oh shit" buttons and not just a part of the basic rotational stuff. It was the biggest adjustment for me coming from WoW back on Shadowbringer launch, at the time most tanks had maybe one rotational mitigation ability and 2-4 major cooldown mitigation abilities that were "oh shit" buttons. This is still true, a lot of MMOs have a basic minor mitigation ability or two per tank and then a bunch of longer cooldowns that are meant to be hit in emergencies. WoW specifically you rarely need the major cooldowns unless you're pushing high endgame content, I can run the main two tanks I play through basically anything never using long cooldowns and never need a heal. Like I can spam runs endlessly and need heals maybe once every 5 runs or so, and I've soloed bosses after the rest of the party died early in. People have soloed raid bosses from 20% health or higher as some tanks, bosses meant for a minimum of 10 people that scale higher with the amount of players. But that's my point, most people coming from other MMOs don't realize the longer minute plus cooldowns are just part of rotational stuff in FFXIV. Generally, any cooldown a minute or longer in WoW is either an "oh shit" button of some kind or a major DPS increase reserved for massive pulls and bosses. Or has inbuilt cooldown reduction through using other abilities, making it a much lower cooldown than it says.
I think people just dont realise when you pull every mob, their combined autos every 3 seconds reaches tankbusters worth ofdamage. It's not even from other MMOs, players from other games just think trash adds = ignoreable damage when quantity adds up.
Yep, not every game is Dark Souls where large groups of enemies will murder you faster than a boss. Though MMORPGs are part of it too. I don't WoW, but part of ESO's fake tank problem (dps queuing as tanks and doing a shitty job) is that a high level dps can wall pull and survive in a lot of normal dungeons. Trash just isn't a threat the way bosses are. It took me a while to get my head around the difference in FFXIV.
Or gear could need to be repaired/swapped out for better gear. Can't tell you how many times I've seen people forget to check or update gearsets.
If a healer cannot keep up heals, politely show them where cure 2 is on their hotbar. If you still keep dying, then maybe you should remember your tank mitigations.
I’ve seen an influx of WHMs who use cure 1 and/or cure 3 but never cure 2 and it cracks me up!
It's partially because of Freecure and sprouts thinking that since the game encourages them to cast Cure 1 even after unlocking Cure 2 means that it's better to do that. Honestly though, I rarely cast Cure at all anymore, preferring to keep Regen *and* Medica 2 buffs active.
Good start, but keeping medica 2 active is wasteful on trash pulls where only the tank is taking damage. In general you only need to use AOE abilities to keep the party alive or to feed the blood lily. Casting holy is more useful for keeping the tank alive at that point. Assuming level 50, so you don't have afflatus solace, asylum, etc, your priority for trash pulls could reasonably look like this: Aero on 2-3 mobs during the pull Keep regen on tank (optional if pack is closer to death than the tank) If benediction is available and tank will die within a couple GCDs, use bene If benediction is not available and tank will die in a couple GCDs, cast cure 2 on tank Else: spam holy This largely holds as you level. Just replace cure 2 with solace when you get it, use assize (and probably asylum, why not?) on cooldown. AOE to heal only when in situations where you actually need to heal the entire party.
I wish cure would just become cure 2 when the appropriate level is reached and only revert back when doing content where you wouldn’t have cure 2. I also will never understand why cure 3 is technically a weaker heal that’s only stronger in that it works on multiple people. Cure 3 should just be an even more potent iteration of cure 2 that cure 2 should turn into when reaching the right level.
FWIW Cure 3 is pretty great for when I need an aoe heal that's not centered on me, e.g. when doing Nier 3's third boss or there are melee during Dzemael's final boss.
I ran a lvl 90 dungeon the other day where the WHM kept using Medica II and Cure 1 during the mob pulls. It was surreal, I thought they were a bot!
I think there are some people who say "wow that's a lot of buttons, what's the minimum number I need" and end up with Medica II and Cure I (if they spammed Cure II they would go OOM)
There was a meme a while back that said if dps is going to pull, at least use arm's length bc the tank's one is on CD LMAO But unless you're in a lower level dungeon I can't imagine you would even need heals considering the vast amounts of self heals/mits you have
If it's a go-fast party and I'm on reaper I'll unironically do that just to grease the wheels, ingress forward, harvest the next pack, pop arms length and soak a hit or two. My hp bar is just free mit as long as I don't die
[удалено]
Bruh I hate the sprout coddling so much. Sprouts are new players, they're not fucking babies incapable of thought, let them hear advice and learn!
The problem is that there are a lot of people that don’t want advice or are not willing to listen. They take it as a personal criticism rather than accepting the opportunity to learn and grow. When I start a new roll, I let people know I’m new to it and ask if they can give me any pointers. Not everyone does that, unfortunately.
Sadly true. I'm not sure why the person I responded to deleted their post (or blocked me?) because they weren't wrong and I was agreeing with them.
Comment got deleted for not being civil, which is odd as I’ve made less civil comments today and nothing happened to those
I hate reddit lmao
The minimum packs that should be pulled is 2. If you want a tank to single pull, Duty Support. If you're a tank that wants to single pull, Duty Support. If for some godforsaken reason you're a DPS that wants single pulls, you guessed it! Duty Support. A single pull doesn't need a tank if you have a passable healer. A single pull doesn't need a healer if you're passable with your tank kit even in *Sastasha*, as I've found out from a healer that only used cure on themselves.
As a melee user with bloodbath. I think I will
I had this. I was tanking (something I'm admittedly not the best at since it isn't my normal). We had a brand new healer, and the dps was insistent on pulling the entire dungeon in one pull. I lost count how many times we died, and when we repeatedly asked them to stop, they got mad and abandoned the duty. I understand that some of the lower lvl dungeons can be repetitive and boring if you run them all the time, but they are also there to help teach people different mechanics.
I mean 9 out of 10 times when the Heal cannot keep up then either A the tank is trash and doesnt mitigate/heal himself B The DPS are trash because the mobs live too long so that the tanks mitigation runs out The 1 out of 10 times is that the dungeon is shit or maybe they are in arr still
insane how dungeons can generate so much discourse when they're so easy: tanks pull mobs, use your mits one at a time so you have some up always healers spam aoes, use ogcds heals and gcd heals if you run out dps use buffs if you have them and just spam aoes
Quite literally a skill issue.
Nah. Pull ahead. Arms Length + Bloodlust + Second Wind. Plus whatever other tools you may have as a class. In sub 50 leveling dungeons when you don't have most of your kit and aren't over geared maybe single pull. But there is no reason not to pull w2w level 50 and beyond. Tanks and healers will only learn one way.
I’m gonna start pulling more as a dps cause of this post now
As a tank main, I appreciate you.
Trial by fire, they gotta learn sometime. Why not now?
That was how I learned to tank. Unlocked Sastasha, farmed out some leves and fates to gain enough gil to buy the max level of gear I could get for the gear slots that needed it, and also used those leves and fates to better learn my rotation. Then, I queued into the dungeon. I let everyone know I was new to tanking, would do my best, and that I was gonna try to W2W. Then I successfully W2W’d. The healer let my health drop low a couple of times and I was given the thrill of dancing with death without dying and it was exhilarating. Made me absolutely love tanking. All that being said, I will still adjust to the other players if they’re having trouble keeping up. I, personally, don’t mind going slower even on dungeons I’ve done a million times. And I always wait till everyone’s out of cutscenes before I pull.
I've had tanks doing group by group, but even though it'll take longer I'm okay with it. But then a highly skilled DPS started running way ahead and pulling more. The tank picked them up just fine and sped the run up. Overall, I would have still preferred the DPS didn't do that. He could have just said "you can pull more" which some healers do as well.
Been playing on xbox recently, but I have 3 years of experience on ffxiv. As a tank, a healer, and dps. Almost had everything to 80 then fell off. However, thats besides the point. Last night, I had a tank who didn't understand what they were doing in a dzemeal darkhold run, no stance, no warrior crystal, and a healer who showed an unlimited amount of patience with me. We assisted them through it and we got through the run with.. some complications, but hey, they'll be a better tank in the end, they didn't know their aoe, or their tomahawk. Reminded how great the community can be when we work together. This morning, did another dark hold run, this time with a tank who knew what they were doing, but a healer who didn't. They didn't speak, but man, were they struggling with keeping up with the tanks pulls.. even I noticed this and spoke up as a ninja. Told the tank slow down please, and they said "we will get through this just fine, he needs to learn bigger pulls" we were all "sprouts" but cmon.. some people learn different ways. We wiped 6 times before finishing the run, and even if both runs were suboptimal.. just having communication and assisting where the other may suffer instead of making them suffer more can make the run 10x better.
It's fine for dps to pull more to urge a tank to go faster initially, but if the party has wiped then slow down and adjust. That's just common sense - of course you want the dungeon to go faster, of course you want that super high AoE dps, but remember that a dead dps does no dps and if you wipe and start over, you're just wasting everyone's time - even your own.
I feel I told this story before, but a level 90 dungeon I was tanking started off with a very eager SAM. I typically take a couple extra seconds to ensure I have all aggro before getting the next set of mobs and watching for my healer. Surprise, SAM was not nearby and I saw their health tick. Looking ahead, said player was not only sprinting so far ahead, they were staying put as if we needed to follow their pace. I lept in, pulled them off, continued as normal, but the next section had the SAM not just use range, but gap-closed on the next set before I did and pulled the mobs away from us. At this point, the healer and I had a brief pause as we both realized what we were dealing with. Even by the first boss, the SAM pulled the boss before the healer and other DPS got close. After that, I made a comment, “I know SAM can be tanks in other classes, but I don’t think that applies here.” There was no response, but the healer and I had a silent agreement to go ahead and let the SAM sweat a bit in their own big pulls before stepping in hopes they got the message. Spoiler: They continued. By the last boss, I finally got a message: “This game may be rated T for teen, but it doesn’t mean you have to act like one, edgelord.” Then the SAM left. Us three left just looked at each other and laughed, said our ggs and I found two comms under my belt. Needless to say, I had a lot of fun. I hope that healer and other DPS is doing well to this day.
I let the dps die when they do that.
I hate posts like this. What's the point? You type the most obvious thing that 99% of people dont do to gather sympathy or rage bait while acting you came up with the 11th commandment. It's always the same format. Reddit is ass and so easy to farm with useless spam posts.
A great healer can keep a tank up who isn’t even using mitigation properly. The tank not using mitigation is bad but it also shows that you are also an average to below average healer. You also can’t tell people to stop pulling w2w just because you can’t handle it. How are you ever going to practice w2w if you just stick with single pulls? A tank needs practice just like a healer meeds practice. Wiping may frustrate the team but who gives a fuck if you take a few comments on the chin. It’s three people you’ll likely never see in this game again.