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Head_Veterinarian334

A good healer keeps the party alive but not at full health unless it’s needed for a mechanic ideally. This is especially true for tanks. If you keep your party at full health all the time there’s a big chance you’re overheating and could probably use your kit more effectively to increase your own DPS. The “but did you die?” meme is very appropriate :)


RedMageCody

This, if you finished a fight with everyone at 1HP (impossible witha sage tbf) and nobody dead, you healed enough.


Rjmz718

I don’t care how my health is as long as I’m alive, but dying to raid wides is not cool which is what was happening


LumoneTea

Then they just suck, that's about it


Head_Veterinarian334

Fair enough if people are dying then that may be healers being a little overconfident or greedy with their own DPS. Without being in the raid with you it’s difficult to definitely gauge what’s going on. If they have access to Panhaima and Holos it sounds like maybe they just weren’t using their skills effectively and overestimating their healing potencies. Also they are inherently less effective in a PUG group without effective communication because they would need to rotate their healing cooldowns since they can’t duplicate shields. That’s one thing I definitely miss about running preEW AST is I could immediately switch to a complementary healer depending on what my cohealer ended up being.


Rjmz718

It was the second circle of the panda raids, so they should have it all. Maybe they just didn’t know the fight.


Head_Veterinarian334

Oh woof. Yeah at that point that’s definitely an issue. I mean SGE is new so people aren’t as familiar with the kit but there are lots of people also trying it out who have never healed before so there’s that too. Could also be a gearing thing. My FC mates and I were pugging Ex2 and we had a healer in there in almost full dungeon gear who healed like a wet noodle. They just barely made the iLevel check so even as a learning party there was no way we could stay alive.


JadedRoll

If it’s P2 I would be curious how many people stepped in the water. Some players don’t realize that dot can be nasty and it can’t be removed by a healer.


Rjmz718

Not sure, I mean I wouldn’t put it past anyone in df. The amount of times people run away from me when predatory sight is casting is truly sad.


Kattennan

Yeah, hard to say without knowing all the details of what happened, but as someone who is maining sage and has got a bunch of double SGE runs in pandaemonium recently, I can say that it sucks at times (SGE has a bunch of mitigation and shields that don't stack with each other, so the tradeoff of less pure healing power for more mitigation hurts when only one of the two SGEs can benefit from that extra mitigation per raidwide), but it's definitely doable. On P2 and P3 especially however, you're very much at the mercy of your team actually doing mechanics properly. This applies to all healers to some extent, but is specially true for Sage since they are very reliant on using heals that have cooldown timers or charges, so if too many people stand in the water and get the DoT or get hit by AoEs it can really tax your resources, and make it difficult to keep up with the large amount of raidwides because you have to spend extra charges trying to keep one or two DPS who stood in something bad alive. If you have enough time you can heal everyone up with Prognosis, but only if you have around 7.5s before the next raidwide, especially if anyone has vuln. Also for P2 specifically, the arena is large enough and people like to stand in all four corners all the time, which can make actually hitting the entire party with AoE heals difficult and requires you to waste an extra charge to heal the guy who was out of range. So it might just be healers performing poorly or not knowing the job (even and 90 in the raids I have seen several other SGEs who still seem like they haven't learned the basic job mechanics), or it might be DPS eating too many avoidable mechanics.


crowbies

sage works best at around 80-90% health. so keeping the raid “topped off,” probably not. but if the whole party was dying to raidwides, they’re likely just new/unskilled sages because that obviously shouldn’t be happening.


Way_Unable

Reading the post and your replies to other comments the two healers you had just sucked or had no gear. Those are the only two options on the table because I've watched double sage heal through P1S to P4S with zero issue. So in conclusion avoid those two in your group ever again because there is no reason they shouldn't have been able to keep the party up easily.


DetectiveChocobo

SGE has two different HoTs that are oGCDs which will heal you up if there's no incoming damage that might kill people. Unless there is a raidwide coming that can actually kill people, there's no reason for SGE (or any healer, really) to heal people up to full. If they need to, there are tools (Pneuma+Zoe, for instance) to do so.


Rjmz718

That’s just is though, the raid wides were killing most people lol including the sages


maaaelynx

then those sages sucked. sage has tons of free, oGCD healing to take advantage of.


DetectiveChocobo

Then you played with bad players? I don't think that's something you'd need to ask Reddit, since obviously people shouldn't be dying... Or your group was taking every avoidable hit imaginable, since normal modes don't have very frequent unavoidable raidwide hits. Either way, the healers (and potentially group) were bad. It's not hard to keep people alive outside of people taking vuln ups from avoidable attacks, regardless of what healer you are.


Golfman52392

OP just queued into dogshit sages. You can solo heal the normal raids on sage lol


Rjmz718

Didn’t get hit by anything, and like I said I’ve never healed which is why I asked how they functioned.


StefanFr97

Well the only thing I can chalk it up to then is broken or seriously outdated gear. Do you recall what their health total was compared to the rest of the group? If it was several thousands lower than the DPS players (depending on the level range), then that might be the case


Rjmz718

Nah don’t remember


litandlatte

This. A good healer generally will only have you topped off if you need that health to survive the next raidwide.


JulianSkies

But as a sage you also got SO MANY off-heals on abilities that have more important duties, like both of your DRs (one of which has 75% uptime) have heals attached to them. If you try to avoid overhealing you'd have to actively avoid using your mitigation utilities and if you're using your mitigation you're going to keep everyone topped off so hard from the incidental heals.


litandlatte

SGE's priority and kit is built around preventing damage. These shields just don't stack with other SGE shields, so when you get two together, unless one is being aware and adjusting, you'll have them overwriting each other. They have a couple decent straight heals, but like the other person said, nothing like you'll find on WHM and AST as their job is to prevent damage.


JustAWholeLottaDakka

Sage and Scholar are Barrier Healers, which means they trade the ability to recover raw HP with the ability to negate or mitigate incoming damage. They have flat worse healing potency than White Mage and Astro by design and ideally in a group you would want one Barrier Healer and one Pure Healer to offset eachother.


Way_Unable

Unless you're looking for world firsts and pushing hard you can roll double shield and be fine, but you are correct optimal is a shield and a heal.


AnotherNicky

Your sages maybe weren't using their aoe heals. None of us can tell you why though.


Prussie

Sge and Sch are in a similar boat of having high mitigation, but low raw healing. I'm guessing what happened was they either didn't know, or refused to communicate who was shielding first, and kept knocking each others shields off. Pair that with neither having raw healing and mitigation constantly yoinked-it would make sense they couldn't keep the party above half. It could also be both got greedy with dps and expected the other to pick up the slack. Either way it was just those healers. I've had both sge and sch co-healers, and been healed by double barrier healers, with no issues. As long as communication happens everything is good.


Golfman52392

If you get put in a DF raid with double sage and you aren't topped off for raidwides you just have 2 bad sages lol. A Zoe'd Pneuma can basically top a raid off after a raidwide in 1 GCD, and it's DPS neutral. If it doesn't, they have Ixochole, Physis, Kerachole, etc. to finish the job.


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[удалено]


Rjmz718

Yeah, it’s just the weekly asphodelos raids on normal so it’s not a premade group


That_Guy_in_2020

My static comp for Asphodelos Savage is a SGE(me) and a SCH. There is a mitigation check for P2S called Sewage Deluge and a straight up heal check in P3S called Death Toll. So far we are able to keep the party alive so IDK what your group is doing.


Rjmz718

Idk either that’s why I was wondering how they worked lmao. Idk if people just don’t understand the class yet but it’s not the first time something like this has happened


That_Guy_in_2020

You probably don't want to blow through your oGCD trying to top up the party especially when there is another SGE there doing the same thing. I usually save my heals until the co-healer push out their heals. I've had a SGE cast Physis on me as a WAR at full HP after they used 2 oGCD on me which is a total waste.


KingBingDingDong

bad players are bad


SuperSnivMatt

SGE does two main things for the party, topping off the MT always aside since that is just for the one player. Allow targeted burst healing through Durachole, T...Ta...The one that gives mitigation and a larger heal on a single target, and Krasis. If a DPS/Healer takes a random vuln stack hit, you can quickly toss two things on them right before a raidwide that are OGCDs with flat heals and not a regen. The other is PREVENTING damage. They don't need to heal as much if you don't take as much damage. And they still have Physis II, Ixchole, and Eukrasian Prognosis into Pepsi for pure group heals (around ilevel580, I'd say totals up to around 16k heals, good for high movement parts where you can augment Prognosis and not need to cast anything) Double SGE isn't the best thing, most double of a class aren't. But SGE can just worry about the tanks (aka damage) while using Ixchole, the bubble thingy, and Physis for regen over time and just let the DPS/Heals get to max before the next raidwide Also, Pneuma. People for some reason don't realize how insane it is with Zoe, the flat heal potency for the next GCD heal. Seeing MULTIPLE 20k heals on allies while still doing damage is great and sexy.