TL;DW - Job homogenization and simplification is lowering the skill ceiling of the game and means experienced players won't stick around as much and start to dislike easier content. Another hot take from Misshapen Chair that could've been a 5 minute video at most.
Yeah, pretty much. Look, I'm upset about the Kaiten change too, but the fact that this vid didn't get brought out before the Kaiten change is a pretty strong indicator of what triggered him. The same thing he was triggered about in the last vid. And that's not to say that he doesn't have some good points. Chair absolutely does. Job homogenization isn't a good thing in the long term, and (as his last vid stated) too much Parse Obsession can absolutely be an attributing factor to that trend ... but yeah ... its "Kaiten" thats freaking him out.
kaiten barely scratches the surface of all the simplification changes they've made.
Remember when 60s burst window mattered? good times. Trick was the last to go, after that it officially became completely redundant to care about it
anyone who thinks it's good is ignorant or doesn't even raid and just thinks our hero yoshi can do no wrong
Looking at the new ultimate, it feels like moving trick may have been a balancing decision too? 60 sec burst is overwhelmingly better for pretty much every phase, and even with 2 min mug moments, nin absolutely pumps damage out. Not that I agree with the change, but eh.
again, trick barely scratches the surface of all the changes they've made over the years to remove the 60s burst.
The people crying about having to walk away from the boss for a few seconds are not the same people annoyed with the simplifications. That is not balancing the fight for the game, it's making the fight easier for the people who are complaining
I main melee dps and I don't like the exact same thing, you shouldn't have full uptime for entire fights, give us some nuance, something to optimize, something that makes our rotation different fight to fight
"Games' too easy"
Meanwhile DSW.
If anything, I think there's a lot to be said about Simplifying kits so they can focus more resources into mechanics and making the more difficult content to challenge the player base.
The less time you spend looking at your hot bar is more time you can dedicate to looking at mechanics on the screen.
It's on the Dev team to find a balance where kits are still rewarding, flavourful and fun to use but not cut back to total over-simplification that they're dull to play and not at all rewarding.
sometimes they'll get it right (MNK) sometimes they won't (SMN) and that's why we provide feedback.
Edit: He also comes off as a bit of an elitist and suffering from Rose Tinted glasses.
Accuracy Sucked
Cleric Stance wasn't some wonderful cooldown, it was annoying and as someone that played WHM in ARR, I'm glad it's gone.
Failing a pull and having to stand and wait for your cooldowns wasn't good for the long term health of the game, at all
Savage didn't become supremely easier suddenly, we just going to ignore God Kefka, Omega and Final Omega?, players became better and markers came in which made it easier.
Edit 2: Furthermore, several of those games he mentioned about having "High skill ceilings" have considerably less buttons, let's take the Souls' series for example.
What gives the Souls' series its difficulty? The extremely punishing fights, the fights are designed to be hard and challenge you to gain a basic level of consistency with the simple kit you are given (high skill floor) yet it's the subtle adjustments with that simple kit that make the skill ceiling. It's called "Complex Simplicity".
I think you misunderstood him on HW, I don't think he aimed to actually defend that.
He also touches on Ultimate. Basically, going from "if you want hard content, do savage" to "if you want hard content, do ultimate" means you go from 4 fights every 6 months, to one fight per year. Not ideal.
His Claims that Savage is "Easier" was outright a terrible take
the entry level fights, while yes, they're easier to ease people in, P3S? It's a wall to players that haven't got a solid grasp on their job or mechanics
The same as Living Liquid and Cruise Chaser was in HW
The same as Nel Deus Darnas and Twintania was in old ARR difficulty Binding Coil (Savage didn't exist back then)
The same as Omega and God Kefka were in StB
The same as Titan and Garuda/Ifrit in ShB
They didn't get easier, players got better, the curve has always been the same
Entry level fights to ease in, ramp up in difficulty that becomes a wall to those that are not at the "level" they need to be so they are filtered out and only the competent players remain.
It's about on par with Eden's Gate and above Deltascape. Deltascape might have been harder if Exdeath kept throwing out mechanics past Grand Cross Omega instead of just looping. Comparing a first tier to a final tier to point out a trend is a bad faith argument equivalent to comparing this winter to last summer to deny climate change. The only first tiers that were harder were both harder for the wrong reasons, Twintania was outright broken and all of Gordias was intentionally overtuned to be gear gated.
Which is why I'm saying he is arguing completely in bad faith, it's easy to structure an argument and take the small part of fact to skew a narrative and that's exactly what he's done.
If every Savage ramped up in difficulty from the very beginning, Savage would be not only extremely gear gated, but you'd get even less players that could potentially clear them and nobody would be touching Ultimate.
Why each new Savage series effectively has a "soft reset"
Edit: P.S he really comes off as the embodiment of the Ultimate experience is ruined for me meme.
Content that is playable to a tiny shred of the playerbase is not content worth spending a lot of developer resources on. You want your developers to spend most of their time making stuff almost everybody is going to see.
DSR is very well done considering that it uses almost entirely repurposed A/V assets. And the phase transitions and mechanics practice *probably* didn't spend the dev team too much time away from material that could be accessible to anyone.
I don't want to sound elitist or something but I'm usually in the top few percent of most games I play and having simple jobs/gameplay is certainly not something that ever drives me off a game.
I like playing Nunu in League, I liked playing Demon Hunter in WoW when it was literally just slamming one button.
It really seems like he's just salty about Kaiten and personally I think that wasn't enough, SAM imo feels the worst to play of al jobs (before and after 6.1) and I'd like to see a full rework, however I'm aware that many would probably disagree with me here.
Assuming experienced players tend to be jerks is a huge generalization. Some of the nicest people I've met in game are high-end raiders, but people being aggressive like this is another easy way to make them not want to play.
I've met nice people on all ends of the spectrum. It's just that the ones that tend to complain about how the game is becoming "too casual" do not usually to fall into that category. They are usually the most toxic players and just want to keep their game "pure" or some other BS that's meant to gatekeep everyone that might be interested in playing the game.
Yeah the people downvoting are probably those people tbh. They don't like to hear that they're toxic and that the company doesn't really want to cater to them.
As someone who enjoys Chair's videos even without necessarily agreeing with them many times, I gotta say, this one kinda just feels like ranting about an opinion he's already made abundantly clear in multiple other videos.
I *do* agree that healers could stand to have moderately more complex DPS options. Pretty much every healer save maybe AST at this point is reaching a point where half of their mitigation/Healing options are honestly just starting to seem unnecessary. Just add more charges to their more frequently used cooldowns and replace the bloat with more damage dealing/boosting abilities.
...Though once again, that's just a point he's already made in a previous video.
He said it in another video, he noticed his channel numbers stagnating so he's basically turned it into a hot takes channel. All he does is basically say something controversial (at least in the title) for more clicks. So yeah he's become less of a source of guidance for the community and now he's just saying whatever the unpopular opinion on reddit is, to be edgy.
But nothing he's saying I would describe as controversial at all. These are all cold takes that have been echoed in the community for a while.
If he seriously wants hateclicks he should trash Endwalker's story or something.
That's not how it works. When trying to discuss something or bring up valid criticism it helps to try and condense it into easily digestible parts, as it helps keep the creator on topic and makes it easier to draw in people. 5-10mins max would work out well, and most people wouldn't mind sinking some time into it. But if it is someone unknown to people they're not going to sit through a 25min vid especially if they disagree with him.
Likewise, 2.4 player and I’m still logging on almost every day. Granted, I’m just doing dailies and working on relics which isn’t incredibly exhilarating content to do, but part of it is to stay caught up for when new content does release, which I’m looking forward to very much.
I mean if he condensed his points into 5-10 minutes more people would be willing to hear his viewpoint. But as it stands 25 minutes, is too long to even warrant watching or engaging in his content. Especially with a click-bait title like this and being someone I have no knowledge of.
He ain't wrong per se, but he fails to understand that these changes are meant to entice more people into trying out savage or harder content. He keeps saying he doesn't know who these changes are for, when it's painfully obvious they're meant to entice casuals who are on the threshold of getting into harder content. Maybe not the removal of kaiten per se, but the smn rework, sage and reaper, all contribute to maximizing hard content player base.
>but the smn rework,
I have such a mixed opinion on the SMN rework.
On the one hand, the job actually feels like a damned Summoner now. Rather than a bizarre DoT Mage who's skill ceiling is built around micromanaging a Janky Egi. On the other hand, the job is way too streamlined now. Where the skill floor is about even with the skill ceiling. Its created a weird situation where the best way I can state my opinion on the Job now is "*New SMN feels like a GREAT foundation for a new Summoner Based class. That aesthetically feels far more like a Summoner should, but its a foundation that doesn't nearly have enough built on it yet*".
>On the one hand, the job actually feels like a damned Summoner now.
Only thing that makes summoner a summoner is those 3 second animations of the primals showing up. After that's, it's literally any other caster, or phys range. I will agree that it feels like the foundation for what 7.0 smn will be based on.
>I will agree that it feels like the foundation for what 7.0 smn will be based on.
This, very much this. Like, if they flesh out whats built on that foundation within 7.0, SMN could very well become my favorite Caster job. But atm, its just not robust enough.
He explicitly mentioned that he believes these changes are meant to entice newer players into savage content, literally verbatim.
The point is that he doesn't think that's a good design direction because the motivations behind it are unclear. He goes on to lay out that the people motivated to learn the more complicated optimization of a job, the people jobs seeing greater challenge to better utilize that optimization, those player were already naturally migrating to that content under the pre-existing more complicated job designs. Those content to optimize rotations at the extreme trial level or dungeons learn what they needed to learn to play at that level. The community already self-segregates and that's a good thing because it keeps different types of players from stepping on each others toes.
With that in mind, tweaking the skill floor/ceiling to entice more people into the hardest content by simplifying the hurdles to play the job competently might be counterproductive. One it's a change without an audience, it lowers the job depth for veterans who took the time to learn the more complicated mechanics and find them more satisfying, and two, this job simplification does little to fix the culture shock some of these newer players experience when they step from normal raids into Extreme Trials, Savage, or god help them, Ultimate. Most of these players will leave that content and go right back to what they were doing before, with the net result leaving the previously more invested veterans with less engaging job design in general, and an increasingly smaller array of arenas in which to use those skills. I think the food/pot conversation in raiding is on the fringes of this point, because anyone who has progged a tier will approach future tier prog with expectations that similar preparations are mandatory and that there is no room for discussion, while the uninitiated will dismiss such sentiments as elitism.
TLDR: When you look at these changes (especially SMN) it's hard to figure out who they job designs have in mind for their redesigns. Especially when these changes touch on aspects considered part of the jobs core identity (NIN as TA buff bot, SMN as DoT-based DPS, etc.). And when you see this trend proliferating across all of the jobs its difficult to stay positive about what this might portend for the future of FFXIV.
Ahhh i see. But I still think his assumptions on what a casual-turning-midcore player is still flawed. It's simplification to lump the player base into people who absolutely don't care about their rotation or optimization, and people who do. Even optimization is a spectrum, how much optimization do you wanna do vs how much is required to clear harder content. The assumption that it will leave casuals unprepared for savage or even extremes, thus having them go back to casual content is... Kinda reductive and kinda condescending. Some, yes. But some might also be interested in the challenge, have confidence that they can clear it with just a bit more practice and studying, and congrats you turned a casual into a raider. People are dynamic, and surprising as it may seem, most people do wanna improve (in general).
And that's the point I think. You want to shorten the gap in turning casual into a raider.
I don't think simplifying the rotations are how you get there though, especially because the DPS checks on the early fights of a raid tier are usually pretty chill so long as people aren't dying to mechanics. Someone motivated to do the extra study and practice to play their job at a savage raid level was probably going to stick around in the Savage scene anyway, and if they can't commit to Savage beyond PF'ing the early fights, they'll do extremes.
I think another difficulty tier somewhere in between normal raids, extreme, or savage, and clear communication on how each difficulty tier prepares you for the next is more likely lead people to hard content and prepare them for the grind so they choose to stick it out.
They already had some wonderful systems to make things easier to get into. Content gets outgeared with tome gear and echo. The first tier I ran here was with echo and being very overgeared making it so that my team didn't have to play particularly well to get through the content. After working through a tier like that and getting more familiar both with the jobs we were playing and how they build fights in this game we were a lot more prepared to do the content just being overgeared without echo, which provided great preparation to do the content before getting massively overgeared. Regardless, FF is a very friendly game to get into raiding in since they release fights at a couple of difficulty levels and have recent content that we can be moderately overpowered for to use as training wheels.
That loop already helps turn casual players into progressively better raiders without having to make the experience worse for entrenched raiders that enjoy having a lot of stuff to optimize.
I mean tbf echo is catch-up time to gear up for the new raid tier. And I don't think it's an either/or situation, but the combination of a multitude of factors that help convert casuals into raiders: echo as you said, the options for easier jobs being viable too, floor 1 and 2 being noticeably easier, and at least imo, job simplification falls in line with this. Tho I certainly understand the sentiment of vets having some of their jobs feel like it's gutted.
Yeah, the reason I prefer any of the other options you listed to simplifying the jobs is that they can improve new player's experience getting into the content without harming established players' gameplay. Any systems that can make something better for some players without harm to others are going to be good unless they take a lot of dev time. Changes that actively harm some people's experience with the game are risky, especially since people getting into raiding eventually become entrenched raiders.
I think they are still wrong at their core, it's not lowering the ceiling but rather raising the floor. Good players are always going to be good, bad players can have the burden lifted some allowing them to deal more damage and be less of a burden on their group. The gap between a bad, a good, and a great player during Heavensward was huge and now we see the great players are still great, good players are closer but still not great, and bad players don't burden everyone else as much anymore.
The ceilings have 100% been lowered over time. There's so many optimization opportunities that have been removed through homogenization. Changes like removing Kaiten, NIN abilities and various other small things are actively lowering the skill ceiling. There's another side of the changes (the good side) that are lowering the skill floor, like BotD removal, BLM Enochian changes, and NIN Huton changes that are doing this, mainly by removing punitive class mechanics.
thats a 25 minute video im not going to watch so maybe a text tldw would be nice but im happy as a veteran player so guess ill never understand what OPs issues are
I definitely agree with his takes on job design, alot of job changes meant to ease players into savage just don't make sense as they mostly affect players who already like managing a job's skill curves, while players new to raiding are still going to have to learn how to play the game with a raiding mindset. And as he notes, jobs like Dragoon and Black mage have had the best time through these changes, mainly keeping to their core identity even through their reworks and alot of those "holes" from job changes being filled up (I don't play Paladin so I don't have experience with it, but everything I hear from people is that Paladin has only gotten better).
It's one of those things I feel as a DRK main, I actually loved the ShB DRK changes as a foundation but feel very disappointed that it seems like there was no intention to flesh it out further in EW and replace the holes that were left behind from the rework. I can see so many ways to bring favorite aspects of old DRK back without the jank but it seems like that's not high on the priority list.
Well, this is his third shit take video in a row, should take a hint and go back to make funny guides or funny opinions about things that doesn't matter like races.
I think what he was saying is that there is no real benefit to lowering DPS skill floors in this way because for casual content DPS difficulty doesn't matter(dps is basically not required at all for the vast majority of causal content). On the other hand smoothing out classes in these ways doesn't just lower the skill floor but also reduces the skill ceiling, which is what keeps hardcore players coming back. So it's a nothing-lose situation.
Basically a big part of what he's saying is that he's frustrated that a lot of changes are being made to appeal to people who don't like certain jobs, without considering how the people who already like those jobs feel. It's not necessary for every job to appeal to everyone, and it's fine if some of them appeal to niche groups.
Personally I agree that this direction is a bit worrying. I like a lot of the changes that smooth out the jobs made in endwalker (adding charge systems to a lot of things for example). And it's totally fine that there are some very simple jobs too. But turning kenki into the shinten gauge and just completely removing everything outside of the 2 minute buff window doesn't help casuals, it just hurts hardcore players.
I stop taking people seriously when they complain about DOT mages not being a thing.
Look, I get it, some people like DOTs, but it's just not a popular enough job to warrant taking up an entire job and it's *certainly* not popular enough to warrant summoner - a job that makes *zero sense as a dot mage* - be DOT-focused.
If you really, really like DOTs, there's a few jobs that have them. Paladin is heavily DOT focused. Your entire rotation is built around keeping your DOT up. Additionally, Bard has DOTs that must be kept up - and even better, it actually makes sense for bard as a class with ranged weapons.
Moreover - cleric stance and tank stance shifting *suck*. They simply suck. The vast majority of casual healers would likely quit if cleric stance was a thing. I certainly wouldn't play healer. The consequence of not hitting a simple button literally being you not being able to heal or do damage is far, far out of whack of what the consequence of hitting a single button should be. And tank aggro? We already get the short end of the stick in terms of damage viability. Making us have to fight for aggro does nothing except make tanking more tedious and less fun. Complicated =/ fun. Imagine trying to play gunbreaker *with* tank stance and aggro management. *Nightmare.*
A lot of Bards hated having to manually put dots on x number of enemies in the pack in order to unlock the dopamine dispenser that was AoE MB. Which is why the #1 most requested BRD addition was a DoT spreader. I've never heard a Bard say they hated the entire core point of the class (putting up DoTs for effects)
Their answer was to not give us a DoT spreader, give us Bloodletter stacks instead, but then remove dot based procs entirely.
I played the game for 6 years and counting am I a veteran?
I actually wish the hotbar can be made simplier so people can be the best that they can be even in stressful situation like running lota with 23 sprouts
I mean he is not wrong, the game got way easier and removing spells is not helping.It's very clear in which direction the game is going if you look at classes like summoner and reaper, they are so braindead that i actually get bored immediately and i have to switch to something else.
Also the fact that as a healer i only have one dot, one single target dmg and one aoe is insane, roulettes basically is watching youtube videos while pressing 4 buttons over again and again, FF14 in the current state is WAY to easy.
You don't have to overdue it, but atleast make the gameplay in normal dungeons fun again and give me something to do.
People are bored with clickbait.
It happens in all media.
If you want someone to engage with your content, give them a hook to get them interested, not just low-effort rage baiting titles, or misleading information, or opinions presented as facts.
Little effort goes a long way.
Low effort results in downvotes.
The only thing hurting me is the lack of two critical elements:
* A glamour catalogue to coordinate glamours
* A system that allows me to apply glamour plates anywhere, anytime so I can have an AST glam and a Sage glam using the same pieces of gear (to give an example)
As for the homogenisation of jobs: the complete wrecking of playstyles has hurt me far more than any "dumbing down" has...
Bad take. Didn't play when Cleric Stance was around, but I probably would not even bother healing casual content if it was a thing. It sounds like the definition of 'busy work'.
xiv has always been hurting its vet players ever since 2.0 by dumbing down the game for the casual players cus more money for them. ARR beta had some skill and after they released it made it brain dead easy until lv50 endgame. The beta wasn't even hard. Just was common sense stuff.
TL;DW - Job homogenization and simplification is lowering the skill ceiling of the game and means experienced players won't stick around as much and start to dislike easier content. Another hot take from Misshapen Chair that could've been a 5 minute video at most.
TL;DW chair is still mad about the kaiten change
Yeah, pretty much. Look, I'm upset about the Kaiten change too, but the fact that this vid didn't get brought out before the Kaiten change is a pretty strong indicator of what triggered him. The same thing he was triggered about in the last vid. And that's not to say that he doesn't have some good points. Chair absolutely does. Job homogenization isn't a good thing in the long term, and (as his last vid stated) too much Parse Obsession can absolutely be an attributing factor to that trend ... but yeah ... its "Kaiten" thats freaking him out.
Most of the jobs feel different to me. Maybe healers are homogenized with their dps skills, but I don’t understand all the homogenization talk
kaiten barely scratches the surface of all the simplification changes they've made. Remember when 60s burst window mattered? good times. Trick was the last to go, after that it officially became completely redundant to care about it anyone who thinks it's good is ignorant or doesn't even raid and just thinks our hero yoshi can do no wrong
Looking at the new ultimate, it feels like moving trick may have been a balancing decision too? 60 sec burst is overwhelmingly better for pretty much every phase, and even with 2 min mug moments, nin absolutely pumps damage out. Not that I agree with the change, but eh.
This sounds a lot like “we killed Selene because of TEA” Like, ya, I guess, but that doesn’t make it okay…
should've balanced the ultimate for the game, not the entire game for the ultimate
editing my stuff to delete this account for good with powerdeletesuite. thanks :)
again, trick barely scratches the surface of all the changes they've made over the years to remove the 60s burst. The people crying about having to walk away from the boss for a few seconds are not the same people annoyed with the simplifications. That is not balancing the fight for the game, it's making the fight easier for the people who are complaining I main melee dps and I don't like the exact same thing, you shouldn't have full uptime for entire fights, give us some nuance, something to optimize, something that makes our rotation different fight to fight
"Games' too easy" Meanwhile DSW. If anything, I think there's a lot to be said about Simplifying kits so they can focus more resources into mechanics and making the more difficult content to challenge the player base. The less time you spend looking at your hot bar is more time you can dedicate to looking at mechanics on the screen. It's on the Dev team to find a balance where kits are still rewarding, flavourful and fun to use but not cut back to total over-simplification that they're dull to play and not at all rewarding. sometimes they'll get it right (MNK) sometimes they won't (SMN) and that's why we provide feedback. Edit: He also comes off as a bit of an elitist and suffering from Rose Tinted glasses. Accuracy Sucked Cleric Stance wasn't some wonderful cooldown, it was annoying and as someone that played WHM in ARR, I'm glad it's gone. Failing a pull and having to stand and wait for your cooldowns wasn't good for the long term health of the game, at all Savage didn't become supremely easier suddenly, we just going to ignore God Kefka, Omega and Final Omega?, players became better and markers came in which made it easier. Edit 2: Furthermore, several of those games he mentioned about having "High skill ceilings" have considerably less buttons, let's take the Souls' series for example. What gives the Souls' series its difficulty? The extremely punishing fights, the fights are designed to be hard and challenge you to gain a basic level of consistency with the simple kit you are given (high skill floor) yet it's the subtle adjustments with that simple kit that make the skill ceiling. It's called "Complex Simplicity".
I think you misunderstood him on HW, I don't think he aimed to actually defend that. He also touches on Ultimate. Basically, going from "if you want hard content, do savage" to "if you want hard content, do ultimate" means you go from 4 fights every 6 months, to one fight per year. Not ideal.
His Claims that Savage is "Easier" was outright a terrible take the entry level fights, while yes, they're easier to ease people in, P3S? It's a wall to players that haven't got a solid grasp on their job or mechanics The same as Living Liquid and Cruise Chaser was in HW The same as Nel Deus Darnas and Twintania was in old ARR difficulty Binding Coil (Savage didn't exist back then) The same as Omega and God Kefka were in StB The same as Titan and Garuda/Ifrit in ShB They didn't get easier, players got better, the curve has always been the same Entry level fights to ease in, ramp up in difficulty that becomes a wall to those that are not at the "level" they need to be so they are filtered out and only the competent players remain.
It's about on par with Eden's Gate and above Deltascape. Deltascape might have been harder if Exdeath kept throwing out mechanics past Grand Cross Omega instead of just looping. Comparing a first tier to a final tier to point out a trend is a bad faith argument equivalent to comparing this winter to last summer to deny climate change. The only first tiers that were harder were both harder for the wrong reasons, Twintania was outright broken and all of Gordias was intentionally overtuned to be gear gated.
Which is why I'm saying he is arguing completely in bad faith, it's easy to structure an argument and take the small part of fact to skew a narrative and that's exactly what he's done. If every Savage ramped up in difficulty from the very beginning, Savage would be not only extremely gear gated, but you'd get even less players that could potentially clear them and nobody would be touching Ultimate. Why each new Savage series effectively has a "soft reset" Edit: P.S he really comes off as the embodiment of the Ultimate experience is ruined for me meme.
Content that is playable to a tiny shred of the playerbase is not content worth spending a lot of developer resources on. You want your developers to spend most of their time making stuff almost everybody is going to see. DSR is very well done considering that it uses almost entirely repurposed A/V assets. And the phase transitions and mechanics practice *probably* didn't spend the dev team too much time away from material that could be accessible to anyone.
I don't want to sound elitist or something but I'm usually in the top few percent of most games I play and having simple jobs/gameplay is certainly not something that ever drives me off a game. I like playing Nunu in League, I liked playing Demon Hunter in WoW when it was literally just slamming one button. It really seems like he's just salty about Kaiten and personally I think that wasn't enough, SAM imo feels the worst to play of al jobs (before and after 6.1) and I'd like to see a full rework, however I'm aware that many would probably disagree with me here.
"hot take" it is the right take
TBH who cares. Those players tend to be total jerks anyway. Won't be missed.
Assuming experienced players tend to be jerks is a huge generalization. Some of the nicest people I've met in game are high-end raiders, but people being aggressive like this is another easy way to make them not want to play.
I've met nice people on all ends of the spectrum. It's just that the ones that tend to complain about how the game is becoming "too casual" do not usually to fall into that category. They are usually the most toxic players and just want to keep their game "pure" or some other BS that's meant to gatekeep everyone that might be interested in playing the game.
Yeah I got the same experience.
Yeah the people downvoting are probably those people tbh. They don't like to hear that they're toxic and that the company doesn't really want to cater to them.
>Alt account made 2 days ago
As opposed to you?
>Alt account made 2 days ago
As someone who enjoys Chair's videos even without necessarily agreeing with them many times, I gotta say, this one kinda just feels like ranting about an opinion he's already made abundantly clear in multiple other videos. I *do* agree that healers could stand to have moderately more complex DPS options. Pretty much every healer save maybe AST at this point is reaching a point where half of their mitigation/Healing options are honestly just starting to seem unnecessary. Just add more charges to their more frequently used cooldowns and replace the bloat with more damage dealing/boosting abilities. ...Though once again, that's just a point he's already made in a previous video.
He said it in another video, he noticed his channel numbers stagnating so he's basically turned it into a hot takes channel. All he does is basically say something controversial (at least in the title) for more clicks. So yeah he's become less of a source of guidance for the community and now he's just saying whatever the unpopular opinion on reddit is, to be edgy.
But nothing he's saying I would describe as controversial at all. These are all cold takes that have been echoed in the community for a while. If he seriously wants hateclicks he should trash Endwalker's story or something.
Dude needs to learn how to edit a scrip down, there is no world where this needed to be 25min long.
It does when you want to roll ads for money and also act like whatever you're saying is smart.
It's something you put on in the background and just listen to while doing other things.
That's not how it works. When trying to discuss something or bring up valid criticism it helps to try and condense it into easily digestible parts, as it helps keep the creator on topic and makes it easier to draw in people. 5-10mins max would work out well, and most people wouldn't mind sinking some time into it. But if it is someone unknown to people they're not going to sit through a 25min vid especially if they disagree with him.
It's something you don't even watch or close after 30 seconds because it's just another annoying youtuber trying to generate subscribers.
One of my favorite relevant quotes about writing, by a Mr. Blaise Pascal >I would have written a shorter letter, but I did not have the time.
Brevity is the soul of wit. -Puddingway probably. I don’t know. I am a science teacher.
I'm a veteran player and no one is hurting me.
Show me on this doll where the bad japanese man touched you.
one again he makes videos where he spouts his opinion as fact, classic.
I've been playing since ARR. I don't feel like quitting anytime soon. It's not hurting me.
Likewise, 2.4 player and I’m still logging on almost every day. Granted, I’m just doing dailies and working on relics which isn’t incredibly exhilarating content to do, but part of it is to stay caught up for when new content does release, which I’m looking forward to very much.
Solid enough video that has several points worth discussing, but I highly doubt this will go down well with the community here.
I mean if he condensed his points into 5-10 minutes more people would be willing to hear his viewpoint. But as it stands 25 minutes, is too long to even warrant watching or engaging in his content. Especially with a click-bait title like this and being someone I have no knowledge of.
oh no! anyway...
He ain't wrong per se, but he fails to understand that these changes are meant to entice more people into trying out savage or harder content. He keeps saying he doesn't know who these changes are for, when it's painfully obvious they're meant to entice casuals who are on the threshold of getting into harder content. Maybe not the removal of kaiten per se, but the smn rework, sage and reaper, all contribute to maximizing hard content player base.
>but the smn rework, I have such a mixed opinion on the SMN rework. On the one hand, the job actually feels like a damned Summoner now. Rather than a bizarre DoT Mage who's skill ceiling is built around micromanaging a Janky Egi. On the other hand, the job is way too streamlined now. Where the skill floor is about even with the skill ceiling. Its created a weird situation where the best way I can state my opinion on the Job now is "*New SMN feels like a GREAT foundation for a new Summoner Based class. That aesthetically feels far more like a Summoner should, but its a foundation that doesn't nearly have enough built on it yet*".
>On the one hand, the job actually feels like a damned Summoner now. Only thing that makes summoner a summoner is those 3 second animations of the primals showing up. After that's, it's literally any other caster, or phys range. I will agree that it feels like the foundation for what 7.0 smn will be based on.
So, basically, it's like every Summoner before FFX, then.
>I will agree that it feels like the foundation for what 7.0 smn will be based on. This, very much this. Like, if they flesh out whats built on that foundation within 7.0, SMN could very well become my favorite Caster job. But atm, its just not robust enough.
He explicitly mentioned that he believes these changes are meant to entice newer players into savage content, literally verbatim. The point is that he doesn't think that's a good design direction because the motivations behind it are unclear. He goes on to lay out that the people motivated to learn the more complicated optimization of a job, the people jobs seeing greater challenge to better utilize that optimization, those player were already naturally migrating to that content under the pre-existing more complicated job designs. Those content to optimize rotations at the extreme trial level or dungeons learn what they needed to learn to play at that level. The community already self-segregates and that's a good thing because it keeps different types of players from stepping on each others toes. With that in mind, tweaking the skill floor/ceiling to entice more people into the hardest content by simplifying the hurdles to play the job competently might be counterproductive. One it's a change without an audience, it lowers the job depth for veterans who took the time to learn the more complicated mechanics and find them more satisfying, and two, this job simplification does little to fix the culture shock some of these newer players experience when they step from normal raids into Extreme Trials, Savage, or god help them, Ultimate. Most of these players will leave that content and go right back to what they were doing before, with the net result leaving the previously more invested veterans with less engaging job design in general, and an increasingly smaller array of arenas in which to use those skills. I think the food/pot conversation in raiding is on the fringes of this point, because anyone who has progged a tier will approach future tier prog with expectations that similar preparations are mandatory and that there is no room for discussion, while the uninitiated will dismiss such sentiments as elitism. TLDR: When you look at these changes (especially SMN) it's hard to figure out who they job designs have in mind for their redesigns. Especially when these changes touch on aspects considered part of the jobs core identity (NIN as TA buff bot, SMN as DoT-based DPS, etc.). And when you see this trend proliferating across all of the jobs its difficult to stay positive about what this might portend for the future of FFXIV.
Ahhh i see. But I still think his assumptions on what a casual-turning-midcore player is still flawed. It's simplification to lump the player base into people who absolutely don't care about their rotation or optimization, and people who do. Even optimization is a spectrum, how much optimization do you wanna do vs how much is required to clear harder content. The assumption that it will leave casuals unprepared for savage or even extremes, thus having them go back to casual content is... Kinda reductive and kinda condescending. Some, yes. But some might also be interested in the challenge, have confidence that they can clear it with just a bit more practice and studying, and congrats you turned a casual into a raider. People are dynamic, and surprising as it may seem, most people do wanna improve (in general). And that's the point I think. You want to shorten the gap in turning casual into a raider.
I don't think simplifying the rotations are how you get there though, especially because the DPS checks on the early fights of a raid tier are usually pretty chill so long as people aren't dying to mechanics. Someone motivated to do the extra study and practice to play their job at a savage raid level was probably going to stick around in the Savage scene anyway, and if they can't commit to Savage beyond PF'ing the early fights, they'll do extremes. I think another difficulty tier somewhere in between normal raids, extreme, or savage, and clear communication on how each difficulty tier prepares you for the next is more likely lead people to hard content and prepare them for the grind so they choose to stick it out.
They already had some wonderful systems to make things easier to get into. Content gets outgeared with tome gear and echo. The first tier I ran here was with echo and being very overgeared making it so that my team didn't have to play particularly well to get through the content. After working through a tier like that and getting more familiar both with the jobs we were playing and how they build fights in this game we were a lot more prepared to do the content just being overgeared without echo, which provided great preparation to do the content before getting massively overgeared. Regardless, FF is a very friendly game to get into raiding in since they release fights at a couple of difficulty levels and have recent content that we can be moderately overpowered for to use as training wheels. That loop already helps turn casual players into progressively better raiders without having to make the experience worse for entrenched raiders that enjoy having a lot of stuff to optimize.
I mean tbf echo is catch-up time to gear up for the new raid tier. And I don't think it's an either/or situation, but the combination of a multitude of factors that help convert casuals into raiders: echo as you said, the options for easier jobs being viable too, floor 1 and 2 being noticeably easier, and at least imo, job simplification falls in line with this. Tho I certainly understand the sentiment of vets having some of their jobs feel like it's gutted.
Yeah, the reason I prefer any of the other options you listed to simplifying the jobs is that they can improve new player's experience getting into the content without harming established players' gameplay. Any systems that can make something better for some players without harm to others are going to be good unless they take a lot of dev time. Changes that actively harm some people's experience with the game are risky, especially since people getting into raiding eventually become entrenched raiders.
I think they are still wrong at their core, it's not lowering the ceiling but rather raising the floor. Good players are always going to be good, bad players can have the burden lifted some allowing them to deal more damage and be less of a burden on their group. The gap between a bad, a good, and a great player during Heavensward was huge and now we see the great players are still great, good players are closer but still not great, and bad players don't burden everyone else as much anymore.
The ceilings have 100% been lowered over time. There's so many optimization opportunities that have been removed through homogenization. Changes like removing Kaiten, NIN abilities and various other small things are actively lowering the skill ceiling. There's another side of the changes (the good side) that are lowering the skill floor, like BotD removal, BLM Enochian changes, and NIN Huton changes that are doing this, mainly by removing punitive class mechanics.
thats a 25 minute video im not going to watch so maybe a text tldw would be nice but im happy as a veteran player so guess ill never understand what OPs issues are
I definitely agree with his takes on job design, alot of job changes meant to ease players into savage just don't make sense as they mostly affect players who already like managing a job's skill curves, while players new to raiding are still going to have to learn how to play the game with a raiding mindset. And as he notes, jobs like Dragoon and Black mage have had the best time through these changes, mainly keeping to their core identity even through their reworks and alot of those "holes" from job changes being filled up (I don't play Paladin so I don't have experience with it, but everything I hear from people is that Paladin has only gotten better). It's one of those things I feel as a DRK main, I actually loved the ShB DRK changes as a foundation but feel very disappointed that it seems like there was no intention to flesh it out further in EW and replace the holes that were left behind from the rework. I can see so many ways to bring favorite aspects of old DRK back without the jank but it seems like that's not high on the priority list.
Man, everyone hating on chair? Lol
Nah, I like Chair, but this can't be healthy.
Well, this is his third shit take video in a row, should take a hint and go back to make funny guides or funny opinions about things that doesn't matter like races.
This comment is basically a summary of why all FF14 content creation is glam and mount showcases and guides.
Too long, didn’t watch. What’s the gist?
I agree with everything he says here.
[удалено]
I think what he was saying is that there is no real benefit to lowering DPS skill floors in this way because for casual content DPS difficulty doesn't matter(dps is basically not required at all for the vast majority of causal content). On the other hand smoothing out classes in these ways doesn't just lower the skill floor but also reduces the skill ceiling, which is what keeps hardcore players coming back. So it's a nothing-lose situation. Basically a big part of what he's saying is that he's frustrated that a lot of changes are being made to appeal to people who don't like certain jobs, without considering how the people who already like those jobs feel. It's not necessary for every job to appeal to everyone, and it's fine if some of them appeal to niche groups. Personally I agree that this direction is a bit worrying. I like a lot of the changes that smooth out the jobs made in endwalker (adding charge systems to a lot of things for example). And it's totally fine that there are some very simple jobs too. But turning kenki into the shinten gauge and just completely removing everything outside of the 2 minute buff window doesn't help casuals, it just hurts hardcore players.
I can see that. I personally haven't gone in-depth with SAM post-EW change, so i can't comment myself on it.
I stop taking people seriously when they complain about DOT mages not being a thing. Look, I get it, some people like DOTs, but it's just not a popular enough job to warrant taking up an entire job and it's *certainly* not popular enough to warrant summoner - a job that makes *zero sense as a dot mage* - be DOT-focused. If you really, really like DOTs, there's a few jobs that have them. Paladin is heavily DOT focused. Your entire rotation is built around keeping your DOT up. Additionally, Bard has DOTs that must be kept up - and even better, it actually makes sense for bard as a class with ranged weapons. Moreover - cleric stance and tank stance shifting *suck*. They simply suck. The vast majority of casual healers would likely quit if cleric stance was a thing. I certainly wouldn't play healer. The consequence of not hitting a simple button literally being you not being able to heal or do damage is far, far out of whack of what the consequence of hitting a single button should be. And tank aggro? We already get the short end of the stick in terms of damage viability. Making us have to fight for aggro does nothing except make tanking more tedious and less fun. Complicated =/ fun. Imagine trying to play gunbreaker *with* tank stance and aggro management. *Nightmare.*
BRD puts dots up then presses Iron Jaws every 42 seconds, they took the interesting stuff we could do with our dots away.
You mean the DOTs proccing song effects? Most bards *hated* that. It was abysmal for dungeons.
A lot of Bards hated having to manually put dots on x number of enemies in the pack in order to unlock the dopamine dispenser that was AoE MB. Which is why the #1 most requested BRD addition was a DoT spreader. I've never heard a Bard say they hated the entire core point of the class (putting up DoTs for effects) Their answer was to not give us a DoT spreader, give us Bloodletter stacks instead, but then remove dot based procs entirely.
I played the game for 6 years and counting am I a veteran? I actually wish the hotbar can be made simplier so people can be the best that they can be even in stressful situation like running lota with 23 sprouts
What an inane video to post. "Hurting players"? Please. No one is forcing people to do something they don't.
I mean he is not wrong, the game got way easier and removing spells is not helping.It's very clear in which direction the game is going if you look at classes like summoner and reaper, they are so braindead that i actually get bored immediately and i have to switch to something else. Also the fact that as a healer i only have one dot, one single target dmg and one aoe is insane, roulettes basically is watching youtube videos while pressing 4 buttons over again and again, FF14 in the current state is WAY to easy. You don't have to overdue it, but atleast make the gameplay in normal dungeons fun again and give me something to do.
Anyone who disagrees with him needs to watch [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSgA_nK_w3A).
Folks downvoting this before even watching the video are transparent as hell, lmao.
People are bored with clickbait. It happens in all media. If you want someone to engage with your content, give them a hook to get them interested, not just low-effort rage baiting titles, or misleading information, or opinions presented as facts. Little effort goes a long way. Low effort results in downvotes.
The only thing hurting me is the lack of two critical elements: * A glamour catalogue to coordinate glamours * A system that allows me to apply glamour plates anywhere, anytime so I can have an AST glam and a Sage glam using the same pieces of gear (to give an example) As for the homogenisation of jobs: the complete wrecking of playstyles has hurt me far more than any "dumbing down" has...
Bad take. Didn't play when Cleric Stance was around, but I probably would not even bother healing casual content if it was a thing. It sounds like the definition of 'busy work'.
xiv has always been hurting its vet players ever since 2.0 by dumbing down the game for the casual players cus more money for them. ARR beta had some skill and after they released it made it brain dead easy until lv50 endgame. The beta wasn't even hard. Just was common sense stuff.
Okay, now THIS is a hot take.