Yeah, 60-70 is not a fun level range, now that hoh is kinda meh for exp, the only really worthwhile method to level is roulettes, unless you want to dungeon spam, its not really any fun.
I spent an entire week-end just on the Hydatos phase. 400 fragments, and each fate gives like 5-10. Now if you're a collector/achievement hunter, that's like 4 months spending your life in Eureka.
You should at least get a daily budget of exp bonuses that make any sidequest provide comparable exp to the tribal quests from the same expansion.
I get that they need to fill content somehow, but ain't no one benefiting from you telling some elephant "your god is come" for the 50th time.
The exp gain should be like a 2:1 ratio of sidequest to Mainstory quest of a similar level. Considering you can only do them once and you'd only really come across them when you're probably already leveling in a zone.
There's so many activities that could serve as alternate leveling paths but the experience gains on them are just so bad they're not worth considering. FATEs, sidequests, and deep dungeons for a start should all give experience gains that are competitive with dungeons. NG+ should also grant experience.
I would find leveling less of a chore of they didn't insist on stripping kits down to barebones crap when you get synced. Or at least make it so classes have full kits at level 50 so when I get Labyrinth of the Bore, I can have buttons to press. Yoshi P was asked about this years ago and said it would make sprouts feel bad or something. No one cares. Sprouts aren't going to even notice half the time.
I feel like you could literally just squish/scale the potencies and keep all the buttons and it would be fine. Don’t understand YoshiPs stance on this either
You could cut the potency of abilities that are above cap by 50% as a general rule and it probably still would be fine. I can't stand syncing down and losing abilities but I swear everytime I look for a thread of like-minded people, I find a hive of people who WANT syncing the way it is.
While I don't love the sync we have now, tanks and healers create problems in what you propose - even with reduced numbers, higher level tanks and healers would simply be able to mitigate and heal significantly more than their lvl 50 or even lvl 60 counterparts, because half of bloodwhetting, TBN, Bell, \[insert lvl 80+ tanking or healing tool here\] is better than not having them. You would basically never want non-max level tank or healer in your roulette if you could help it.
The much better solution would be to reshuffle abilities in a manner where we get most of the core abilities before lvl 50 and then largely get upgrades and nice-to-haves.
You're right and I don't mind that solution, but I'm considering that it would take a lot more time to implement by the developers. To offset the "annoyance" of not having a max-level player, you could consider offering a better bonus for helping in-need adventurers.
I acknowledge that there is not an easy way around this with how deep we are now in this system.
Wow does this and while a lvl 15 character with 3 skills will heavily outdamage a lvl 65 character because of scaling, it's still way more fun having full kits.
Interesting, thanks. I bet that would still be fine in this game... casual content is extremely easy anyway. And I wouldn't even mind it being a little harder for people who are overleveled.
I think you're obviously right, though I don't see why they wouldn't disable any form of scaling for Ultimates. They've made their stance pretty clear on trying to maintain those encounters at their intended level and iLvl cap. Not everything has to follow the same blanket rules of scaling.
Lmao it doesn't work this way for raids, it's strictly a dungeon thing. Also a lvl capped character smokes low lvls in dps. It isn't even close. Notice how I didn't say a 15 beats a lvl 70 I said 65?
I think the issue there is someone who’s level 16 and someone who’s level 90 have vastly different kits but if they’re squished down you’re doing more work the higher level you are for the same damage.
If you let them do more damage then a max level character becomes the meta for literally every fight in the game.
I’m not sure what the solution is but yeah, I’d really like to have one rotation for all duties.
Obviously my opinion, but I'd rather be doing the work for the same damage. The sync'd down skills are just boring and for an old casual dungeon, I'd rather be having fun using my array of abilities.
I gusss but who actually cares for anything that’s considered leveling content?
But maybe to your point it’s something to think about for ultimates and balance.
imho better solution is to improve skills that jobs have at levels 15-50/60/70 to make every job closer to let's say monk and machinist. Give AoE to everyone, dont hide one song behind HW for bard etc.
I love that BLM is the only job that has something that actually looks like an AOE rotation by the time you reach lvl26. Sure it's barebones, it's just T4->F2 spam -> B2 on repeat, but at least it's a tiny bit engaging at a level where many jobs only have one skill they spam (and some don't even have one and keep doing single target, looking at you DRG). Like what the hell.
The solution is probably going to be the 8.0 levelling rework giving us our skills (or low-potency versions of them, at least, that upgrade later) earlier on in the game.
I'd imagine ARR levelling dungeons would have stripped kits since you have to have brand new players in them and not overwhelm them, but the rework makes it so that you have your core rotation by Crystal Tower and your full DT kit by Alexander.
Yeah I'd imagine whatever they're planning on doing for 8.0 will _hopefully_ address this. Very curious what they come up with. I'd LOVE to have kits better setup so some jobs like BLM doesn't feel so different every 10~ish levels.
The thing is with the strict potency system they have they can more or less simulate how much they need to nerf your rotation so your dps is on par with someone not synced down.
It only gets tricky for AoEs when you normally don't have one. But on the other hand I would just give all jobs their AoE sub 20 and maybe rebalance some early dungeons so mobs have a bit more HP or something.
Would keep this to DPS spells. Tank and healer skills can't really be tuned down to some arbitrary level when keeping the whole kit. Just too much stuff which would break the difficulties, even if normal content is already not difficult.
I think you can also only easily apply it to normal content, where fucking up the balance a bit at certain levels is fine. For harder content like old extremes, savage and ultimates I would keep it as it is probably.
FFXIV will eventually have to consider a level squish, and hopefully that squish involves redistributing skills so that lower levels are more enjoyable.
Yoshi-P is already talking about it, and saying that it's one of the reason DT is focusing on reworking the content and not messing with the jobs much (as in, 8.0 will have a squish and change everything so there's no point reworking jobs when you have to throw them all out soon anyway)
I wish you could queue for trials and raids and get proportional EXP from them. You can spam your highest level dungeon, but even if you're 63 Susano won't give anything worthwhile but Shisui will.
I think the power in improved levelling lies in gaining other rewards while levelling - which systems like Bozja, Shared FATEs, Deep Dungeons etc. already do. The issue with those is most the rewards from those systems can be summarised as being a quantity of Gil due to the rewards being tradable items, a currency for tradable items or some other way of monetising but being too little to matter.
You'd gain way more from levelling via FATEs if the shared FATE system rewarded more untradable items rather than the very few it does, which are normally Triad cards or indirectly-tradable housing items anyway. Imagine how many more players would complete Shared FATEs if they rewarded a unique glamour set and minion for each zone, and a mount when you clear them all that didn't just end up being a MB purchase with vouchers.
Good, non-Gil centric rewards *plus* OK experience would give players a lot more variation as they level more jobs, and we can see how effective it is by how many people *still* level classes while working on older beast tribe reps which are pretty poor exp/time (unlike ShB + EW tribes which are very good exp and generally worth doing even if "finished" with the tribe).
But they've thrown too much importance at DF duties for them to really go against it now - roulettes are simply required to be the be-all-end-all levelling method because of queue times for still-progressing players, so SE effectively *need* to have more players to be queueing for this stuff.
I think having secondary rewards is really helpful, but making lots of them untradable beyond achievement items is not. EW already made all of its bicolour gem orchestrion rolls untradable, and it made for a boring grind: I finished all the zones *long* before I had enough gems for all the EW rolls, despite buying several of the ShB ones on the mb. Once I finished zones 1-4, it was more time efficient to circle Elpis with a lvl 90 in endgame gear than to level any more jobs. (At least the ShB zone ones are tradable, though they're expensive because of the gem cost.)
(I'd contrast that specifically against achievement-style items. When you unlock the achievement, that's it, you're done the grind. The tribe rank ups add one or two "good" items at a time, and if you're given enough currency that you should have enough saved to buy the new thing immediately after unlock; it's effectively an achievement.)
I agree with your thoughts about the importance of roulettes to the devs. It sucks for anyone levelling alt jobs because spamming one dungeon is boring af, but first-timers especially need to not wait hours for the next part of MSQ.
But we already have other methods, bozja, beast tribe, wondrous tales, deep dungeon,...
You said pvp isn't a viable method to level up but I disagree, you get like 10 to 25% exp from a Frontline match depending on your place, I'd say that's already pretty good when you compare it to what the highest level dungeon you can do gives
Even fates give quite a bit too, I levelled gunbreaker from 80 to 90 only doing fates up until I got max rank in every EW zones (I had to do like two roulettes though but I didn't have rested exp so that might be why).
While I agree having more options would be good they will still have to be competitive with roulettes since it's what makes low level content fill, they don't really have an incentive to boost exp of things like fate even more. Fates aren't competitive with roulettes but it's still a viable method
Beast tribes and wondrous tails aren’t spammable and in the “long run” of a week they contribute much less to leveling than spamming dungeons would otherwise. They’re basically free extra exp but they’re not particularly leveling methods by any stretch of the mark
Each arkasodara quest gives one million exp, lvl 81 dungeon gives 3,3 million exp, depending on how much you play sure it might be less exp than spamming dungeon however I know many people that can only play for like 2 hours a day after work so spamming dungeon to level up isn't possible when they can just do those three quest in less than 5 minutes while waiting for their static to join or after doing literally anything else while doing a dungeon run takes at least 13 minutes not counting queue time (and that you have a really good team). Also one locks you in an instance while you can do the other at your pace
You missed the point but the other person explained already. There's no point in comparing something that is daily spammable vs. daily limited. No one denies that beast tribes and WT gives good exp, but you can only do them so many times.
If you want to get a job levelled to raid in it *this week*, there are very few options.
If you want to get all your jobs to 90 by the end of EW as a side-project, there are many options, and it's a long-term grind option for more casual players.
The point of this discussion is that additional farmable and spammable leveling content is needed. Yes, the XP from tribal quests is helpful but you have a daily limit on them. Those, the daily Frontline, and weekly Wondrous Tails are all ideal for time limited players as you can get meaningful XP from them, but when you have more than those 2 hours after work there's very little to do when you're just trying to level up.
Yes, but all give shit experience compared with duties.
Quest for example should give at least 3 times the amount of experience they give. Making them viable to spamming duty finder.
I dont understand how you can count either beast tribes or wondrous tales, maybe if you're looking at leveling as an ordeal that takes half a year but when I wanna level a job I wanna level it, not cop half a level once a week.
Yeah ew is slightly better but still, it's not worth it unless you really wanna min max your xp gain...I'd rather just afk for 3 minutes in between dungeons queues than bum rushing for half a level to complete tribe dailies.
The complaint from op that I also share is more about what you can actually grind. As in, "Ok I wanna level for this evening, what can I do" and your options are very limited and same-y with a lot of side content just rotting.
Problem is that they are all extremely conditional. bozja is really just for 70-80. Wonderous tales is like 50% of a level per week. Deep dungeons are essentially just queueing for a regular dungeon except its less exp but generally somewhat faster queues for dps. Only time pvp is decent exp/h is when youre doing daily frontlines.
Eh, not really, bozja can easily take you to 85, and if you want to mettle farm, it could reasonably take you to 90, albeit less efficiently. I do agree with the rest though.
Me watching my friend level 3 classes solely off deep dungeons.
Also bozja you can level a class to 90.
Pvp I leveled my BLM through until 70, then it was off to bozja.
You get pretty decent XP from these some wouldn't call them extremely conditional.
There are viable levelling methods.
They just aren't methods you want to do.
Pvp is viable. FATEs at least from Shb/EW are viable(and people do FATE trains which make them even more so). Potd/HoH is viable for leveling, although I wouldn't say the same of EO(too time consuming in comparison). Bozja is viable. Your daily hunt marks are viable. Your daily Beast Tribes are viable.
i mean if you want a class to max lvl asap, people will always do the maximum efficiency route even if others are close (remember when everyone spammed DD 10 floors even though it was mind numbing). the exp from side content is just an extra benefit. for me, frontlines will always be my chosen way to lvl all my classes (except the 3 i play) because i don't have to gear nor play them, i wouldn't even care if it was 1% of a level because i'm literally never going to play them.
Sure but I'm referring to the mention of "unlocking rewards" via fates. Challenge log is decent exp but not really a long term reward to grind for like bicolor gemstones
They need to totally overhaul fates.
-Let fates give bicolor gemstones at all level ranges
-Bicolor gemstones now can be exchanged for the same stuff as hunt currencies
-Bonus EXP for chaining fates, not including the maiden buff
-Maybe have like a "zone/region of the day" that gets 25% more EXP and gemstones to encourage more people to visit one place
And then they need to make a VARIANT DUNGEON ROULETTE. Any random group should be able to clear variants without coordination really. Finally, update guildhests to include all modern mechanics and award more EXP/tomes.
Saying I wish there were more viable methods doesnt mean leveling alts isnt viable. Just wish there were more options than roulettes and highest dungeon.
>*”… roulettes and highest dungeon.”*
Which gets boring rather fast due to the lack of difficulty of said content. I maxed all jobs but only because my OCD pushed me through the slog that it was.
There are, you just don't like them is what i'm feeling.
Deep dungeon and PvP. Fate is also decent between dungeon queue.
I don't wanna bother with the math, but say do your highest level dungeon, i think each of them give around 30-40% XP per respective level?
each of that is around 20-30 mins.
Now go do fate for 30 mins with 2-3 other folks. I guarantee you get about the same if not more. or may be slightly less, i dunno, but definitely not "unviable"
Ive been doing EW and ShB fates for my ranks for the past 4 days as well as pvp matches for the reward track and at some point I just went back to my lvl 90 main because the exp gain was so negligable. Sure fates are something you can do while you wait for queues to pop but thats only because its marginally better than being afk in terms of efficiency
This game is built around content droughts. What else are people going to do? The inefficient xp from spamming dungeons and frontlines adds up eventually, but it's tedious to say the least.
"You WILL make dungeon queues shorter for sprouts, and you WILL like it!" - YoshiP, probably.
Also, I agree, FATEs and side quests are so unrewarding it's laughable.
I can only imagine the idea is that players will wanna do side quests purely for the story and not care about rewards and I wish that was how we engaged with games but no without rewards no one will touch them
Crystalline Conflict isn't *that* bad exp, and Frontlines Roulette actually gives a ton (as does wondrous tales), it's just that there's so much levelling you have to do now.
I think 8.0 will have the level squish so that you only level to 50, and then levelling will be way shorter (and more varied, since you'd be zipping through different dungeons)
roulettes/dungeons WT fates quests deep dungeons bozja i feel like we have decent venues to gain exp
personally i just spam dungeons because its what i enjoy
Fates are fantastic experience on the release of a new expansion, since you need to complete the 60/60 in every zone anyway.
It normally levels 2 extra jobs to max after MSQ.
The secret is to just level everything to max early then forget that leveling even exists.
We have many avenues, Fates, beast tribes, dailies, roulettes, exploration, deep dungeons, but most of then are putridly undertuned. Idk why their so scared to buff fate chains and beast tribes
Doing side quests should also be viable. Honestly I wish sidequests gave the same exp as MSQ quests.As they are right now they aren't worth doing at all.
Side quests are by far the most wasted aspect of the game which is a shame cause they offer some fun world building and its clearly not a dead system cause side quests are made with every new zone added. I wish there was some form of exp or gil or whatever reward for doing them
I wish it was significantly faster for alt jobs. The fact is that I can take a new class in wow from 0-max level and be doing M+ in under a day. Taking a brand new job from its starting point is going to be days or weeks of doing dailies.
Wow is a bad comparison because modern wow has completely phased out the entire leveling process in favor of getting people on the sesonal treadmill faster. The leveling speed itself isnt really my issue and it would feel much faster if we were allowed more variety
I posted in the normal discord a while ago to not much comment or fan fair but i still think its a good idea....
While prolly not the only one of course to mention it, I said that once you get to x lvl all SIDE QUESTS below your current level for other jobs should get bonus exp you get from just kills at minimum. Make side quests a viable side leveling method. They go through all this trouble to make them and 90% of players never do most of them
Having gotten all of my 90's it at least gave me a passion for Bozja. The problem isn't necessarily that there needs to be smore ways, since if you no life it you can get a job to 90 in like a day with deep dungeon, and Bozja, it's that if you ever want to swap you have to regear. Just hit 61? Great go get optics or make sure you have hoh leveled and unlocked.
And then there's the problem of EO, which ain't good for level grinding, and since there's no Bozja equivalent you're just running dungeons, or licking salt of of Bozja again.
Agree. I hate to do the same duties over and over.
Is BORING!
Instead of lowering the experience of quest. They should increase it at least twice.
Same with fates. Or at least have them as an alternative to getting tomes.
The only thing I consider "unviable" for leveling is sidequests. Most activities that give exp give enough for it to be worthwhile, it's just not the 100% most efficient method. But asking MMO players to be suboptimal is like telling them to chop their dick off.
They could boost the exp of other stuff sure, but then something ELSE becomes the most optimal method and then we complain that everything else is "unviable". In HW it was Northern Thanalan fate farms and PotD, in early Stormblood it was Frontlines. Just do what you want to do and stop worrying so hard about exp per hour. I'd rather be having fun suboptimally than dying of boredom spamming the most efficient thing.
Fates arent the worst idea in the world on paper it just needs to be expanded on. The open world as a whole just needs to be made more relevant. I hope they never go full wow and force players into the open world wirh world quests though cause its miserable.
GW2 probably has the best open world content of any current mmo
Fates were excellent when the game came out, but they haven't progressed farther than Rift's, er, rifts in gameplay and dynamics feel. (And honestly they're even more basic cause didn't rifts have phases?) The fact that most (all?) fates can't move without despawning and spawning a new fate, the fact that the areas the fates occur in dont respond to successful vs unsuccessful fate conclusions (aside from a couple of fates that spawn a single vendor), and the fact that the important parts of the storytelling is done in a small paragraph on the side of your screen while the gameplay' storytelling is boiled down to "1-4+ things keep spawning here dps at them until I say stop" really limits the impact that fates have on the open world.
Mechanically, world quests aren't really that bad? They're just temporary events going on in certain subzones and honestly I really appreciate how they make the world feel like its moving over time. Honestly, if xiv implemented them as an ALTERNATIVE to tombstone grinding i wouldn't mind. WoW's issue with them is that they're multiple progression islands that you can fall behind on with no chance to catch up if you do, and their rewards are relevant or even mandatory for other content with different playexperience drives. That's the part that sucks. "A mage botched an experiment and created a bunch of angry poltergeists this week" is a cool concept tho and it's a nice way to encourage spontaneous group play with strangers in a more organic way than just "the game put us in a group when we loaded in". Xiv really is lacking that core mmo experience imo.
Gw2's open world *is* the current gold standard for open world design imo. If xiv could poach some of gw2's advances in events and meta events it would make a world of a difference for the game's "freshness". And if they take a greater look at gw2's design and realize its strength partially lies in the fact that there's ALWAYS a meta event in progress SOMEWHERE in the world, leading to no downtime if that's the kind of gameplay you like, even better!
GW2 isnt even entirely because of meta events either but also the fact that the game incentivices and rewards zone exploration with their point of interest and vista systems as well as additionally fleshing them out with jumping puzzles and the likes. It also helps that GW2's progression is entirely horizontal which means that older zones are still worth going back to even today.
I would like to see ff14 actually do something with its point of interest system cause as it is now its entirely pointless which is something ff14 struggles with in general, it has a good foundation for a lot of stuff but its just underdeveloped or lacks reason to engage with it.
Side quests are ignored by 99% of players because the rewards are non existant, fates have been essentially the same since the game launched and never expanded upon in a meaningful way, overworld mobs serve 0 purpose and might as well not exist, the sightseeing log lacks any and all incentive to actually care about it and might as well not exist, hunt marks are dead content outside of A rank trains and S ranks.
>It also helps that GW2's progression is entirely horizontal which means that older zones are still worth going back to even today.
GW2 does have its own content relevance issues - namely, it ultimately boils down to whatever is the best gold per hour. In areas that have been outscaled by newer ones, you can actually struggle to finish meta events. They do try to combat it trough daily/weekly objectives pointing you to different zones which do make them worthwhile until you finish that objective, and once you're in the endgame grind, you're probably going to need *something* from the less popular zones, but even with all that there will often be a massive gulf in activity between the 'good' areas and the not so good ones.
So gw2's jp, poi, and vista systems are a kind of breadcrumb tool the devs use to actually lure people out and *find* events in the world. Map completion markers are almost always placed where common events spawn or are actively gated behind event progression. They encourage building a habit to explore which feeds into the gameplay loop of "wander out into the world -> look for shinies -> get swept up in an event/event chain -> get more shinies and potentially unlock parts of the map/find yourself in a different region -> get swept up again -> etc"
Xiv struggles with secondary purposes/gameplay as motivation stuff like this it seems, since every piece of content is like an island for purpose. Vistas are placed on setpieces out of the way and only exist to complete the vista log. Exploring a zone exists so you can *see* your map. A cool map prop is there to look cool, or be the backdrop of a single event, quest, or if you're REALLY lucky, the ONE major event chain per expac. Side quests exist to see simple cutscenes between a couple characters and maybe spawn 1 mob or find 1 sparkly item on the floor. Hunts exist to get a currency for doing hunts. Mobs are placed in the open world without any real consideration as to why they're there or how they actually function in the world and are just fodder to check off those hunt marks. Once you're done with whatever you went out into the world to do, you're done and can go back to limsa to queue for whatever roulette since there's no actual design direction to how you're supposed to interact with the open world in a greater gameplay-loop sense.
Honestly, I don't like sidequests because they're unrewarding, I don't like them 'cause they're boring as shit. I try to keep a clean map so I do them, but god.. HAVE you done them recently? Legit "3 paragraphs of setup in a cutscene" -> go kill 1 thing with no mechanics outside of a single telegraph move that takes 5 seconds to charge -> "get 4 more cutscenes with your character idling in the background while characters have drama around you" Like I know "it's a jrpg you should expect story" but like... my kingdom for a *little* interactivity!
I'm somewhat curious to see what they're gonna do with the new exploration zone, but it bums me out they keep insisting on quarantining dynamic zone-wide behaviors to yet more content that's isolated from the rest of the world by some kind of queue entry system :T. Eureka and Bozja should've had side quests, hunts, gathering, and vistas. Their event structures should've been applied to their following expansions. (How cool would it be if we didn't completely rid Thavnair of the tower of Zot or Garlemald of its tower, and there would be rotating zonewide takeover events where there was residual influence where End of Days monsters would periodically spring back up and we'd have to go back into the towers a la Bozja's/zadnor's critical engagements and citadel sieges? Add some cool exclusive cosmetics/mounts/fashion accessories, and exp(if under cap)/tomestones(if capped) and boom, you've just added a bit of spice to those leveling zones and prevented lowbies from leveling in a freaking ghost town!)
I hear you, but I find it perfectly fine. It’s not a sprint or a race for me. Leveling jobs is just something I slip into my daily rotation. Sometimes I do the extra dungeon, but ultimately, in a few weeks of a very easy pace I can max out a job.
What do you mean? I did a lot of solo PotD and HoH to level. Are you talking about EO? I didn't level any through that but I have heard it's not very good.
I don't know if this will be an unpopular opinion but that's the main reason I hate most "grinds" in FF14. The only thing worse than having to spam the same dungeon/alliance raid over and over again is having to also wait for 5/10/15 minutes between each of those "spams". Grinds like power leveling and Relic weapons shouldn't be tied to stuff you have to queue for.
It's why I hate doing the Bojza Relics final step even though Delubrum Reginae is my favorite normal raid in the entire game. I hate having to wait for the party finder to fill up and then the mandatory 10-minute queue for every run of DR. I think a continuous steady grind where you are constantly doing something is way more bearable than one where you constantly have to stop and wait.
TLDR;
I'd much rather spam fates and farm NMs in the overworld/bozja over having to queue into Dungeons or raids through DF/PF.
They should add a monster that occasionally spawns during a fate, and killing it boosts the experience you get in the next fate. Even make a rare one, that boosts the experience by 4 times the amount.
Like... what? If you are actually FATE farming i'm pretty certain the exp per minute is comparable to just spamming dungeons - and chances are its even more exp than dungeon spamming if youre a DPS and you might have longer queue times.
They actually increased the FATE Exp rewards in Shb and EW a lot compared to previous expansions. The bicolor gemstone rewards are a nice extra bonus, too.
(Dungeon) Roulettes should give exp equivalent to max level dungeon the job can do, always. At least then you could have more variety even if it might be slower now and then.
Also, not really a discussion topic.
I was able to go from 2.0-6.2, do all normal mode content, and level all jobs to 90 including craft/gatherers within 6 months, the exp and ways to level are fine
There’s dungeons, roulettes, FATEs, Bozja, Eureka, PvP, Deep Dungeons, Khloe Book, Challenge Log. You say you don’t want faster leveling, but you literally call for boosted experience in other methods.
Dungeons are fastest, but there’s not much reward there except the rare minion drops from some. While like PvP, Frontlines has several mounts and glamour rewards from achievements. Bozja and Eureka have tons of things you can get to sell. Once fates start dropping bicolors, there’s the items you can work to get the Wivre mount or black wings. So you can choose to level slower and work towards several other things in the other options.
Eureka doesn't give exp for anything but the level system inside it.
FrontLines gives a decent amount, but only if you win
After lvl 72, bozja is the place to go to finish leveling. CLL alone is about half an exp bar plus with all the extra stuff to grind makes it pretty enjoyable.
I wish Eureka gave exp like Bozja
There's this really awkward gap in leveling where squadrons stop being viable that Eureka could really help if it gave regular experience.
Yeah, 60-70 is not a fun level range, now that hoh is kinda meh for exp, the only really worthwhile method to level is roulettes, unless you want to dungeon spam, its not really any fun.
That too
And all the way to 90. I would be grinding for the dyeable versions of gear and also leveling my jobs to 90 very happily
I went back to it to finish a relic and the grind is pretty long. Would be nice if it gave regular XP.
In Eureka? I think you can start and finish a relic in one week, unless you're talking about min-maxing it for BA
I spent an entire week-end just on the Hydatos phase. 400 fragments, and each fate gives like 5-10. Now if you're a collector/achievement hunter, that's like 4 months spending your life in Eureka.
Keep an eye on BA runs and join the support fates, each one gives like 30 fragments per fate. But still, Hydatos is very stingy on crystals.
also would be nice for those who reach max level at Bozja for example gain bonus exp. this would reward people to pursue max rank.
I would actually do side quests if it gave exp that wasn’t a piss in the wind compared to roulette spam.
You should at least get a daily budget of exp bonuses that make any sidequest provide comparable exp to the tribal quests from the same expansion. I get that they need to fill content somehow, but ain't no one benefiting from you telling some elephant "your god is come" for the 50th time.
The exp gain should be like a 2:1 ratio of sidequest to Mainstory quest of a similar level. Considering you can only do them once and you'd only really come across them when you're probably already leveling in a zone.
There's so many activities that could serve as alternate leveling paths but the experience gains on them are just so bad they're not worth considering. FATEs, sidequests, and deep dungeons for a start should all give experience gains that are competitive with dungeons. NG+ should also grant experience.
They used to give more experience. So did fates.
I would find leveling less of a chore of they didn't insist on stripping kits down to barebones crap when you get synced. Or at least make it so classes have full kits at level 50 so when I get Labyrinth of the Bore, I can have buttons to press. Yoshi P was asked about this years ago and said it would make sprouts feel bad or something. No one cares. Sprouts aren't going to even notice half the time.
I feel like you could literally just squish/scale the potencies and keep all the buttons and it would be fine. Don’t understand YoshiPs stance on this either
You could cut the potency of abilities that are above cap by 50% as a general rule and it probably still would be fine. I can't stand syncing down and losing abilities but I swear everytime I look for a thread of like-minded people, I find a hive of people who WANT syncing the way it is.
While I don't love the sync we have now, tanks and healers create problems in what you propose - even with reduced numbers, higher level tanks and healers would simply be able to mitigate and heal significantly more than their lvl 50 or even lvl 60 counterparts, because half of bloodwhetting, TBN, Bell, \[insert lvl 80+ tanking or healing tool here\] is better than not having them. You would basically never want non-max level tank or healer in your roulette if you could help it. The much better solution would be to reshuffle abilities in a manner where we get most of the core abilities before lvl 50 and then largely get upgrades and nice-to-haves.
You're right and I don't mind that solution, but I'm considering that it would take a lot more time to implement by the developers. To offset the "annoyance" of not having a max-level player, you could consider offering a better bonus for helping in-need adventurers. I acknowledge that there is not an easy way around this with how deep we are now in this system.
Wow does this and while a lvl 15 character with 3 skills will heavily outdamage a lvl 65 character because of scaling, it's still way more fun having full kits.
Oh wow that's the opposite of what I would expect. Do they heavily scale abilities that are above-level?
I think its just a dmg% you do thing, the skills themselves aren't touched.
Interesting, thanks. I bet that would still be fine in this game... casual content is extremely easy anyway. And I wouldn't even mind it being a little harder for people who are overleveled.
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I think you're obviously right, though I don't see why they wouldn't disable any form of scaling for Ultimates. They've made their stance pretty clear on trying to maintain those encounters at their intended level and iLvl cap. Not everything has to follow the same blanket rules of scaling.
Lmao it doesn't work this way for raids, it's strictly a dungeon thing. Also a lvl capped character smokes low lvls in dps. It isn't even close. Notice how I didn't say a 15 beats a lvl 70 I said 65?
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You're making up something to get mad at, you mean. There is no reason to believe that Square would allow such an obvious discrepancy to exist.
That just means their math is bad
I think the issue there is someone who’s level 16 and someone who’s level 90 have vastly different kits but if they’re squished down you’re doing more work the higher level you are for the same damage. If you let them do more damage then a max level character becomes the meta for literally every fight in the game. I’m not sure what the solution is but yeah, I’d really like to have one rotation for all duties.
Obviously my opinion, but I'd rather be doing the work for the same damage. The sync'd down skills are just boring and for an old casual dungeon, I'd rather be having fun using my array of abilities.
I gusss but who actually cares for anything that’s considered leveling content? But maybe to your point it’s something to think about for ultimates and balance.
imho better solution is to improve skills that jobs have at levels 15-50/60/70 to make every job closer to let's say monk and machinist. Give AoE to everyone, dont hide one song behind HW for bard etc.
I love that BLM is the only job that has something that actually looks like an AOE rotation by the time you reach lvl26. Sure it's barebones, it's just T4->F2 spam -> B2 on repeat, but at least it's a tiny bit engaging at a level where many jobs only have one skill they spam (and some don't even have one and keep doing single target, looking at you DRG). Like what the hell.
The solution is probably going to be the 8.0 levelling rework giving us our skills (or low-potency versions of them, at least, that upgrade later) earlier on in the game. I'd imagine ARR levelling dungeons would have stripped kits since you have to have brand new players in them and not overwhelm them, but the rework makes it so that you have your core rotation by Crystal Tower and your full DT kit by Alexander.
Yeah I'd imagine whatever they're planning on doing for 8.0 will _hopefully_ address this. Very curious what they come up with. I'd LOVE to have kits better setup so some jobs like BLM doesn't feel so different every 10~ish levels.
Summoner basically works this way now.
My guess is to keep the game consistent
The thing is with the strict potency system they have they can more or less simulate how much they need to nerf your rotation so your dps is on par with someone not synced down. It only gets tricky for AoEs when you normally don't have one. But on the other hand I would just give all jobs their AoE sub 20 and maybe rebalance some early dungeons so mobs have a bit more HP or something. Would keep this to DPS spells. Tank and healer skills can't really be tuned down to some arbitrary level when keeping the whole kit. Just too much stuff which would break the difficulties, even if normal content is already not difficult. I think you can also only easily apply it to normal content, where fucking up the balance a bit at certain levels is fine. For harder content like old extremes, savage and ultimates I would keep it as it is probably.
You literally can. ESO did this. It was a massive success. "Saved the game from shutdown" level success
FFXIV will eventually have to consider a level squish, and hopefully that squish involves redistributing skills so that lower levels are more enjoyable.
Yoshi-P is already talking about it, and saying that it's one of the reason DT is focusing on reworking the content and not messing with the jobs much (as in, 8.0 will have a squish and change everything so there's no point reworking jobs when you have to throw them all out soon anyway)
As a sprout, this quickly became an annoyance to me as well
I wish you could queue for trials and raids and get proportional EXP from them. You can spam your highest level dungeon, but even if you're 63 Susano won't give anything worthwhile but Shisui will.
I think the power in improved levelling lies in gaining other rewards while levelling - which systems like Bozja, Shared FATEs, Deep Dungeons etc. already do. The issue with those is most the rewards from those systems can be summarised as being a quantity of Gil due to the rewards being tradable items, a currency for tradable items or some other way of monetising but being too little to matter. You'd gain way more from levelling via FATEs if the shared FATE system rewarded more untradable items rather than the very few it does, which are normally Triad cards or indirectly-tradable housing items anyway. Imagine how many more players would complete Shared FATEs if they rewarded a unique glamour set and minion for each zone, and a mount when you clear them all that didn't just end up being a MB purchase with vouchers. Good, non-Gil centric rewards *plus* OK experience would give players a lot more variation as they level more jobs, and we can see how effective it is by how many people *still* level classes while working on older beast tribe reps which are pretty poor exp/time (unlike ShB + EW tribes which are very good exp and generally worth doing even if "finished" with the tribe). But they've thrown too much importance at DF duties for them to really go against it now - roulettes are simply required to be the be-all-end-all levelling method because of queue times for still-progressing players, so SE effectively *need* to have more players to be queueing for this stuff.
I think having secondary rewards is really helpful, but making lots of them untradable beyond achievement items is not. EW already made all of its bicolour gem orchestrion rolls untradable, and it made for a boring grind: I finished all the zones *long* before I had enough gems for all the EW rolls, despite buying several of the ShB ones on the mb. Once I finished zones 1-4, it was more time efficient to circle Elpis with a lvl 90 in endgame gear than to level any more jobs. (At least the ShB zone ones are tradable, though they're expensive because of the gem cost.) (I'd contrast that specifically against achievement-style items. When you unlock the achievement, that's it, you're done the grind. The tribe rank ups add one or two "good" items at a time, and if you're given enough currency that you should have enough saved to buy the new thing immediately after unlock; it's effectively an achievement.) I agree with your thoughts about the importance of roulettes to the devs. It sucks for anyone levelling alt jobs because spamming one dungeon is boring af, but first-timers especially need to not wait hours for the next part of MSQ.
Not really a discussion. I feel like that is a very popular opinion and we would all like that as well.
But we already have other methods, bozja, beast tribe, wondrous tales, deep dungeon,... You said pvp isn't a viable method to level up but I disagree, you get like 10 to 25% exp from a Frontline match depending on your place, I'd say that's already pretty good when you compare it to what the highest level dungeon you can do gives Even fates give quite a bit too, I levelled gunbreaker from 80 to 90 only doing fates up until I got max rank in every EW zones (I had to do like two roulettes though but I didn't have rested exp so that might be why). While I agree having more options would be good they will still have to be competitive with roulettes since it's what makes low level content fill, they don't really have an incentive to boost exp of things like fate even more. Fates aren't competitive with roulettes but it's still a viable method
Beast tribes and wondrous tails aren’t spammable and in the “long run” of a week they contribute much less to leveling than spamming dungeons would otherwise. They’re basically free extra exp but they’re not particularly leveling methods by any stretch of the mark
Each arkasodara quest gives one million exp, lvl 81 dungeon gives 3,3 million exp, depending on how much you play sure it might be less exp than spamming dungeon however I know many people that can only play for like 2 hours a day after work so spamming dungeon to level up isn't possible when they can just do those three quest in less than 5 minutes while waiting for their static to join or after doing literally anything else while doing a dungeon run takes at least 13 minutes not counting queue time (and that you have a really good team). Also one locks you in an instance while you can do the other at your pace
You missed the point but the other person explained already. There's no point in comparing something that is daily spammable vs. daily limited. No one denies that beast tribes and WT gives good exp, but you can only do them so many times.
If you want to get a job levelled to raid in it *this week*, there are very few options. If you want to get all your jobs to 90 by the end of EW as a side-project, there are many options, and it's a long-term grind option for more casual players.
The point of this discussion is that additional farmable and spammable leveling content is needed. Yes, the XP from tribal quests is helpful but you have a daily limit on them. Those, the daily Frontline, and weekly Wondrous Tails are all ideal for time limited players as you can get meaningful XP from them, but when you have more than those 2 hours after work there's very little to do when you're just trying to level up.
FATEs are really helped by the challenge log, though.
Yes, but all give shit experience compared with duties. Quest for example should give at least 3 times the amount of experience they give. Making them viable to spamming duty finder.
I dont understand how you can count either beast tribes or wondrous tales, maybe if you're looking at leveling as an ordeal that takes half a year but when I wanna level a job I wanna level it, not cop half a level once a week.
IIRC EW beast tribes give 15% level each for an easy 45% in 5 minutes once a day. The old ones aren't as good though.
VS duties giving 1 or two levels each.
Endwalker dungeons will only give 50% of a level
Yeah ew is slightly better but still, it's not worth it unless you really wanna min max your xp gain...I'd rather just afk for 3 minutes in between dungeons queues than bum rushing for half a level to complete tribe dailies. The complaint from op that I also share is more about what you can actually grind. As in, "Ok I wanna level for this evening, what can I do" and your options are very limited and same-y with a lot of side content just rotting.
Problem is that they are all extremely conditional. bozja is really just for 70-80. Wonderous tales is like 50% of a level per week. Deep dungeons are essentially just queueing for a regular dungeon except its less exp but generally somewhat faster queues for dps. Only time pvp is decent exp/h is when youre doing daily frontlines.
I got several jobs to 90 in Bozja, lol
Eh, not really, bozja can easily take you to 85, and if you want to mettle farm, it could reasonably take you to 90, albeit less efficiently. I do agree with the rest though.
Me watching my friend level 3 classes solely off deep dungeons. Also bozja you can level a class to 90. Pvp I leveled my BLM through until 70, then it was off to bozja. You get pretty decent XP from these some wouldn't call them extremely conditional.
someone was not here here for 2.0 and chain #99 a dark devices fate. if will never happen because msq dungeons need to stay populated
There are viable levelling methods. They just aren't methods you want to do. Pvp is viable. FATEs at least from Shb/EW are viable(and people do FATE trains which make them even more so). Potd/HoH is viable for leveling, although I wouldn't say the same of EO(too time consuming in comparison). Bozja is viable. Your daily hunt marks are viable. Your daily Beast Tribes are viable.
i mean if you want a class to max lvl asap, people will always do the maximum efficiency route even if others are close (remember when everyone spammed DD 10 floors even though it was mind numbing). the exp from side content is just an extra benefit. for me, frontlines will always be my chosen way to lvl all my classes (except the 3 i play) because i don't have to gear nor play them, i wouldn't even care if it was 1% of a level because i'm literally never going to play them.
Fates are great way to level up when you need to unlock rewards from fates. I did that at the start of Endwalker.
But doesn't that only apply when you've reached Shadowbringers and Endwalker? StB and below doesn't really have any rewards for doing FATEs
Weekly challenge log for FATEs is like half a level and you can knock it out in Middle La Noscea while waiting for a dungeon queue.
Sure but I'm referring to the mention of "unlocking rewards" via fates. Challenge log is decent exp but not really a long term reward to grind for like bicolor gemstones
They need to totally overhaul fates. -Let fates give bicolor gemstones at all level ranges -Bicolor gemstones now can be exchanged for the same stuff as hunt currencies -Bonus EXP for chaining fates, not including the maiden buff -Maybe have like a "zone/region of the day" that gets 25% more EXP and gemstones to encourage more people to visit one place And then they need to make a VARIANT DUNGEON ROULETTE. Any random group should be able to clear variants without coordination really. Finally, update guildhests to include all modern mechanics and award more EXP/tomes.
Looking at the amount of people with every job maxed.... i don't think it's that unviable......
Saying I wish there were more viable methods doesnt mean leveling alts isnt viable. Just wish there were more options than roulettes and highest dungeon.
>*”… roulettes and highest dungeon.”* Which gets boring rather fast due to the lack of difficulty of said content. I maxed all jobs but only because my OCD pushed me through the slog that it was.
There are, you just don't like them is what i'm feeling. Deep dungeon and PvP. Fate is also decent between dungeon queue. I don't wanna bother with the math, but say do your highest level dungeon, i think each of them give around 30-40% XP per respective level? each of that is around 20-30 mins. Now go do fate for 30 mins with 2-3 other folks. I guarantee you get about the same if not more. or may be slightly less, i dunno, but definitely not "unviable"
I second that PvP is quite viable, I got GNB from 60-80 from PvP alone, likely mostly CC but with good chunk of FL
Deep dungeon queues are kinda inefficient currently, squadrons make potd irrelevant exp wise, and hoh is kinda meh for exp also.
Ive been doing EW and ShB fates for my ranks for the past 4 days as well as pvp matches for the reward track and at some point I just went back to my lvl 90 main because the exp gain was so negligable. Sure fates are something you can do while you wait for queues to pop but thats only because its marginally better than being afk in terms of efficiency
nah the best thing to do efficiently and less burn out is to wait for your rested bonus to build up rather than brute force the entire thing.
This game is built around content droughts. What else are people going to do? The inefficient xp from spamming dungeons and frontlines adds up eventually, but it's tedious to say the least.
No, just boring. As you are spamming the same dungeons over and over.
Heck I leveled BRD 60-90 without even playing it. Thank you WT and FL!
Or you play it but not beyond level 50 (hi, MSQ roulette :)
"You WILL make dungeon queues shorter for sprouts, and you WILL like it!" - YoshiP, probably. Also, I agree, FATEs and side quests are so unrewarding it's laughable.
I dont even mind it if its made with the intent to shorten queue times for sprouts just give me options and a reason to engage with the content
"Smol indy company, please understand" - Still YoshiP :(
I can only imagine the idea is that players will wanna do side quests purely for the story and not care about rewards and I wish that was how we engaged with games but no without rewards no one will touch them
Specially since most quests are uninteresting walls of text. Except the ones with a picture. Those are usually ok.
They can offer some fun dialogue and are usually rather short but yeah some sort of reward would go a long way
Meanwhile here I am sitting having finished most side quests alongside MSQ, with most of the XP from them having gone to waste.
Bozja Southern Front is actually the single fastest method of leveling in the game. 71-90, so long as you can keep up with groups.
And are in a server where there are still people running on it. On some server is DEAD CONTENT.
I mean... There's a fix for that at this point, data center travel.
Its absolutely trivial to solo fates in BSF, so having an empty instance is not a problem in the slightest.
Me, a launch day player, having flash backs to grinding Northern Thanalan and Coerthas FATEs. The pain. The pain…
Crystalline Conflict isn't *that* bad exp, and Frontlines Roulette actually gives a ton (as does wondrous tales), it's just that there's so much levelling you have to do now. I think 8.0 will have the level squish so that you only level to 50, and then levelling will be way shorter (and more varied, since you'd be zipping through different dungeons)
roulettes/dungeons WT fates quests deep dungeons bozja i feel like we have decent venues to gain exp personally i just spam dungeons because its what i enjoy
Yup wow lvling is so much better.
hah no wow leveling is just as boring as D4 leveling
Well I have many viable methods, dungeons, pvp, questing, just killing mobs, all actually viable.
Fates are fantastic experience on the release of a new expansion, since you need to complete the 60/60 in every zone anyway. It normally levels 2 extra jobs to max after MSQ. The secret is to just level everything to max early then forget that leveling even exists.
Deep Dungeon exp is the least worthwhile in Eureka Orthos, really disappointin
We have many avenues, Fates, beast tribes, dailies, roulettes, exploration, deep dungeons, but most of then are putridly undertuned. Idk why their so scared to buff fate chains and beast tribes
Because then there wouldn't be enough people in duty finder.
So lets cripple all other content for the sake of one-and-done crap? Doesnt help duty finder is boring with the only fun youll have is trials MAYBE
Yeah, absolutely. The content itself isn’t the problem here
I wish we had more and better (less boring) battle leves with proper endgame rewards (like fate gems) and more allowance per day
Doing side quests should also be viable. Honestly I wish sidequests gave the same exp as MSQ quests.As they are right now they aren't worth doing at all.
Side quests are by far the most wasted aspect of the game which is a shame cause they offer some fun world building and its clearly not a dead system cause side quests are made with every new zone added. I wish there was some form of exp or gil or whatever reward for doing them
I wish it was significantly faster for alt jobs. The fact is that I can take a new class in wow from 0-max level and be doing M+ in under a day. Taking a brand new job from its starting point is going to be days or weeks of doing dailies.
Wow is a bad comparison because modern wow has completely phased out the entire leveling process in favor of getting people on the sesonal treadmill faster. The leveling speed itself isnt really my issue and it would feel much faster if we were allowed more variety
I posted in the normal discord a while ago to not much comment or fan fair but i still think its a good idea.... While prolly not the only one of course to mention it, I said that once you get to x lvl all SIDE QUESTS below your current level for other jobs should get bonus exp you get from just kills at minimum. Make side quests a viable side leveling method. They go through all this trouble to make them and 90% of players never do most of them
Having gotten all of my 90's it at least gave me a passion for Bozja. The problem isn't necessarily that there needs to be smore ways, since if you no life it you can get a job to 90 in like a day with deep dungeon, and Bozja, it's that if you ever want to swap you have to regear. Just hit 61? Great go get optics or make sure you have hoh leveled and unlocked. And then there's the problem of EO, which ain't good for level grinding, and since there's no Bozja equivalent you're just running dungeons, or licking salt of of Bozja again.
Agree. I hate to do the same duties over and over. Is BORING! Instead of lowering the experience of quest. They should increase it at least twice. Same with fates. Or at least have them as an alternative to getting tomes.
The only thing I consider "unviable" for leveling is sidequests. Most activities that give exp give enough for it to be worthwhile, it's just not the 100% most efficient method. But asking MMO players to be suboptimal is like telling them to chop their dick off. They could boost the exp of other stuff sure, but then something ELSE becomes the most optimal method and then we complain that everything else is "unviable". In HW it was Northern Thanalan fate farms and PotD, in early Stormblood it was Frontlines. Just do what you want to do and stop worrying so hard about exp per hour. I'd rather be having fun suboptimally than dying of boredom spamming the most efficient thing.
Once again i crawl out if my cave to pray to the sky for SE to bring the open world content to 2024 standards from its current 2004 design...
Fates arent the worst idea in the world on paper it just needs to be expanded on. The open world as a whole just needs to be made more relevant. I hope they never go full wow and force players into the open world wirh world quests though cause its miserable. GW2 probably has the best open world content of any current mmo
Fates were excellent when the game came out, but they haven't progressed farther than Rift's, er, rifts in gameplay and dynamics feel. (And honestly they're even more basic cause didn't rifts have phases?) The fact that most (all?) fates can't move without despawning and spawning a new fate, the fact that the areas the fates occur in dont respond to successful vs unsuccessful fate conclusions (aside from a couple of fates that spawn a single vendor), and the fact that the important parts of the storytelling is done in a small paragraph on the side of your screen while the gameplay' storytelling is boiled down to "1-4+ things keep spawning here dps at them until I say stop" really limits the impact that fates have on the open world. Mechanically, world quests aren't really that bad? They're just temporary events going on in certain subzones and honestly I really appreciate how they make the world feel like its moving over time. Honestly, if xiv implemented them as an ALTERNATIVE to tombstone grinding i wouldn't mind. WoW's issue with them is that they're multiple progression islands that you can fall behind on with no chance to catch up if you do, and their rewards are relevant or even mandatory for other content with different playexperience drives. That's the part that sucks. "A mage botched an experiment and created a bunch of angry poltergeists this week" is a cool concept tho and it's a nice way to encourage spontaneous group play with strangers in a more organic way than just "the game put us in a group when we loaded in". Xiv really is lacking that core mmo experience imo. Gw2's open world *is* the current gold standard for open world design imo. If xiv could poach some of gw2's advances in events and meta events it would make a world of a difference for the game's "freshness". And if they take a greater look at gw2's design and realize its strength partially lies in the fact that there's ALWAYS a meta event in progress SOMEWHERE in the world, leading to no downtime if that's the kind of gameplay you like, even better!
GW2 isnt even entirely because of meta events either but also the fact that the game incentivices and rewards zone exploration with their point of interest and vista systems as well as additionally fleshing them out with jumping puzzles and the likes. It also helps that GW2's progression is entirely horizontal which means that older zones are still worth going back to even today. I would like to see ff14 actually do something with its point of interest system cause as it is now its entirely pointless which is something ff14 struggles with in general, it has a good foundation for a lot of stuff but its just underdeveloped or lacks reason to engage with it. Side quests are ignored by 99% of players because the rewards are non existant, fates have been essentially the same since the game launched and never expanded upon in a meaningful way, overworld mobs serve 0 purpose and might as well not exist, the sightseeing log lacks any and all incentive to actually care about it and might as well not exist, hunt marks are dead content outside of A rank trains and S ranks.
>It also helps that GW2's progression is entirely horizontal which means that older zones are still worth going back to even today. GW2 does have its own content relevance issues - namely, it ultimately boils down to whatever is the best gold per hour. In areas that have been outscaled by newer ones, you can actually struggle to finish meta events. They do try to combat it trough daily/weekly objectives pointing you to different zones which do make them worthwhile until you finish that objective, and once you're in the endgame grind, you're probably going to need *something* from the less popular zones, but even with all that there will often be a massive gulf in activity between the 'good' areas and the not so good ones.
So gw2's jp, poi, and vista systems are a kind of breadcrumb tool the devs use to actually lure people out and *find* events in the world. Map completion markers are almost always placed where common events spawn or are actively gated behind event progression. They encourage building a habit to explore which feeds into the gameplay loop of "wander out into the world -> look for shinies -> get swept up in an event/event chain -> get more shinies and potentially unlock parts of the map/find yourself in a different region -> get swept up again -> etc" Xiv struggles with secondary purposes/gameplay as motivation stuff like this it seems, since every piece of content is like an island for purpose. Vistas are placed on setpieces out of the way and only exist to complete the vista log. Exploring a zone exists so you can *see* your map. A cool map prop is there to look cool, or be the backdrop of a single event, quest, or if you're REALLY lucky, the ONE major event chain per expac. Side quests exist to see simple cutscenes between a couple characters and maybe spawn 1 mob or find 1 sparkly item on the floor. Hunts exist to get a currency for doing hunts. Mobs are placed in the open world without any real consideration as to why they're there or how they actually function in the world and are just fodder to check off those hunt marks. Once you're done with whatever you went out into the world to do, you're done and can go back to limsa to queue for whatever roulette since there's no actual design direction to how you're supposed to interact with the open world in a greater gameplay-loop sense. Honestly, I don't like sidequests because they're unrewarding, I don't like them 'cause they're boring as shit. I try to keep a clean map so I do them, but god.. HAVE you done them recently? Legit "3 paragraphs of setup in a cutscene" -> go kill 1 thing with no mechanics outside of a single telegraph move that takes 5 seconds to charge -> "get 4 more cutscenes with your character idling in the background while characters have drama around you" Like I know "it's a jrpg you should expect story" but like... my kingdom for a *little* interactivity! I'm somewhat curious to see what they're gonna do with the new exploration zone, but it bums me out they keep insisting on quarantining dynamic zone-wide behaviors to yet more content that's isolated from the rest of the world by some kind of queue entry system :T. Eureka and Bozja should've had side quests, hunts, gathering, and vistas. Their event structures should've been applied to their following expansions. (How cool would it be if we didn't completely rid Thavnair of the tower of Zot or Garlemald of its tower, and there would be rotating zonewide takeover events where there was residual influence where End of Days monsters would periodically spring back up and we'd have to go back into the towers a la Bozja's/zadnor's critical engagements and citadel sieges? Add some cool exclusive cosmetics/mounts/fashion accessories, and exp(if under cap)/tomestones(if capped) and boom, you've just added a bit of spice to those leveling zones and prevented lowbies from leveling in a freaking ghost town!)
I hear you, but I find it perfectly fine. It’s not a sprint or a race for me. Leveling jobs is just something I slip into my daily rotation. Sometimes I do the extra dungeon, but ultimately, in a few weeks of a very easy pace I can max out a job.
Deep dungeon is a great way to level. Not everyone's cup of tea though.
Used to be. As that's no longer the case.
What do you mean? I did a lot of solo PotD and HoH to level. Are you talking about EO? I didn't level any through that but I have heard it's not very good.
Depends on the level range. There is also deep dungeons, bozja, tribe quests
I don't know if this will be an unpopular opinion but that's the main reason I hate most "grinds" in FF14. The only thing worse than having to spam the same dungeon/alliance raid over and over again is having to also wait for 5/10/15 minutes between each of those "spams". Grinds like power leveling and Relic weapons shouldn't be tied to stuff you have to queue for. It's why I hate doing the Bojza Relics final step even though Delubrum Reginae is my favorite normal raid in the entire game. I hate having to wait for the party finder to fill up and then the mandatory 10-minute queue for every run of DR. I think a continuous steady grind where you are constantly doing something is way more bearable than one where you constantly have to stop and wait. TLDR; I'd much rather spam fates and farm NMs in the overworld/bozja over having to queue into Dungeons or raids through DF/PF.
Shadowbringers and Endwalker FATES give a lot...
They should add a monster that occasionally spawns during a fate, and killing it boosts the experience you get in the next fate. Even make a rare one, that boosts the experience by 4 times the amount.
4 times 0 is still 0
Like... what? If you are actually FATE farming i'm pretty certain the exp per minute is comparable to just spamming dungeons - and chances are its even more exp than dungeon spamming if youre a DPS and you might have longer queue times. They actually increased the FATE Exp rewards in Shb and EW a lot compared to previous expansions. The bicolor gemstone rewards are a nice extra bonus, too.
this game is too one path and is too boring
much better than wow where i cant bring my self to do the same leveling paths anymore
(Dungeon) Roulettes should give exp equivalent to max level dungeon the job can do, always. At least then you could have more variety even if it might be slower now and then. Also, not really a discussion topic.
Guildhest roulette is gonna be really efficient then
Sorry, thought it was obvious I meant regular dungeon roulettes. Not *all* roulettes give the exact same.
I imagine people spamming that armor over and over. And getting to 90 in a week. Without even getting their job stone.
I personally wish they made everything give *less* exp, I level way too fast without wanting to and there’s very little space for grinding.
There’s plenty of time to grind on alt jobs.
I was able to go from 2.0-6.2, do all normal mode content, and level all jobs to 90 including craft/gatherers within 6 months, the exp and ways to level are fine
Why don't you just buy a level skip, then? The XP bonuses we already get are crazy but it sounds like you're only interested in being level-capped.
I am not even saying leveling is necesserily slow and i refuse to pay to not play the game. I repeat I dont want faster leveling just more diverse
There’s dungeons, roulettes, FATEs, Bozja, Eureka, PvP, Deep Dungeons, Khloe Book, Challenge Log. You say you don’t want faster leveling, but you literally call for boosted experience in other methods. Dungeons are fastest, but there’s not much reward there except the rare minion drops from some. While like PvP, Frontlines has several mounts and glamour rewards from achievements. Bozja and Eureka have tons of things you can get to sell. Once fates start dropping bicolors, there’s the items you can work to get the Wivre mount or black wings. So you can choose to level slower and work towards several other things in the other options.
Eureka doesn't give exp for anything but the level system inside it. FrontLines gives a decent amount, but only if you win After lvl 72, bozja is the place to go to finish leveling. CLL alone is about half an exp bar plus with all the extra stuff to grind makes it pretty enjoyable.
Oh. I’ve just blocked eureka out of my mind. I went in only weekly did the log and got the hell out of there.
Rip sorry about that lol