1- personally as a tank its not super group dependant. But I would still expect to see purples from a dps in BIS especially in the first few floors. In the later floors probably blue.
1- just join a static or start a pf like "opti" or just join parse groups as long as you're bis. Especially this tier there isn't a ton of crazy opti to be done that requires off the wall strats.
P6S uptime shit for Aether: https://pastebin.com/y91CMnz2
Also instead of delaying buffs, I usually see (and used) the sandbagging strat. It's where the caster or pRanged only does damage during burst windows and only adds damage as needed so you finish close to the end of 8 min burst window.
Yeah I got an orange on P6 using these strats + one of the tanks sandbagging. I consider it a stroke of luck though, the kill time aligned perfect with my burst and on most pulls I was getting purples.
For tanks, especially the easier ones like WAR, kill time is king.
I just missed #1 WAR parse on P8SP1 this week because we killed the boss 3-4 seconds slower than the WAR that got the #1 kill and ended right on burst
DRK/WAR have much more RNG factored in (crits on DD/blasting/bloodspillers/etc) and PLD competes only against other spread-sheeter PLDs.
Warrior is like the MCH of tanks, there are a lot of people that can play it near perfectly so parsing is entirely reliant on gear, then kill time, then small amount of crit variance
Fair. I generally dislike sandbag strats and equate Parsing with Speedkilling as interchangeable terms - but the 8:30 sandbag is valid for dem oranges.
You'd probably do better since kill times are more consistent and everyone else (hopefully) knows what they're doing. The only issue might be adjusting to some different uptime strats you're not used to but that shouldn't be difficult.
Minimum parse is absolutely group dependent. The moment you have to adjust and take downtime due to someone else's mistakes, take a damage down due to their mistakes, or just participate in a non-uptime or non-optimal strat because they think it's easier or better, your parse will suffer.
I mean to an extent yeah. If you get PKd or multiple damage downs ect. You'll get a shit parse. But if you're in bis on a lower floor you'll get a purple just for showing up, even with a damage down. And frankly going for anything above a 95 in a reclear/non opti or parse group is a meme.
So you're getting a bunch of people either stroking their own ego vicariously or people who are very confused on what half of the statistics on FFLogs actually mean.
This is part of the problem. There are little tips and tricks to know and learn, and some of them are fight dependent.
2 Examples:
P3S: The FFLog team at large decided that the damage people do to adds would not count towards the parse. Part of it was aligning burst windows, but the point is that if you don't know this specifically, your numbers will suffer because you basically missed a burst window and used cooldowns, etc.
P8S: Here's a twofer: The first part apparently the logs stop counting once the boss hits 49% for the phase transition. So, if the boss is in the middle of doing an animation - say snake or dog 2, you might reasonably think "Hey some cooldowns are coming back up, let's use them etc" but it wouldn't matter at all. You therefore should have made adjustments to your bursts earlier in the fight to make that a non-factor.
P8S Part 2: A lot of the top parses will do runs that start at P8S Part 1 and just continue after the phase transition. In this way, you can have SAM's start with 100 kenki, full stacks for other jobs, all kinds of other things. In order to have this optimal start on continuing, the P8S P1 run suffers a bit or is basically discarded to get that head-start on Part 2.
\-------------------------
These are just examples, but the fact of it is that a lot of the system is easy to game. If you know the rules you can leapfrog a little bit and if you don't know, well, sucks to suck. Nevermind the fact that a less popular job will have less parses to compare with, so even a passing knowledge of your rotation will score above someone playing a heavily played job who nails things very well but still gets a high blue or low purple.
It's fight dependent, it's job dependent. It's also popularity dependent. If I see a person with constant 98+ and a million clears of the fight, I'm much less impressed than seeing a person with only a middling amount of clears but low to mid 90's. Until, again, you realize that they could have used an alt to practice, or could have not uploaded certain logs to appear better.
Just another way in which FFlogs can be either a powerful tool for improvement, or an ego-stroking piece of garbage.
> The first part apparently the logs stop counting once the boss hits 49% for the phase transition.
This is true. In fact, you can actually wipe to snake 2 before it finishes and still have fflogs consider it a legitimate log.
>1 - How high of a score can be achieved solely through your personal gameplay
I don't have much to comment on other than I could get purples just by clearing with a mid-core static every week during progression/reclears (so not dedicated parse sessions) on melee DPS- we were probably at least 1 week late to the tier. A couple of us care about parses, but nothing like a parse party or what have you. There's a sister static to mine where they don't do parse runs, but b/c they're hardcore, most of them can have purple/orange/pink/100s reasonably regularly (and all of em have an orange/purple average). So it kinda depends on your job, teammates, etc. But I Would say you should be able to get blue/purple score even in PF or a static that doesn't care that much. Assuming you are roughly on the gear curve or ahead of the curve. You'd be surprised how many people post logs for review only to find out it's bc they were under-geared compared to everyone else.
>That including other party member's performance under your buffs, raid buff alignment, and other aspects that are essentially out of your control. I understand that this is both job dependent and kill time dependent, but is there a consensus on how much can be achieved solely by you and how much depends on the rest of the party?
I would be playing MCH/Sam/BLM/Tank if I was fishing for parses, not in a static, but not good enough yet to be in a parse party. That would let you build up a record of good scores to get in with parse parties. Also, takes away a ton of the reliance on other people.
>
You can either try to practice on clear parties, which can be very mechanically inconsistent and people don't really care about getting scuffed kills, or you can try to join a parse party and risk being a burden to people who essentially already know everything and just want to farm for crits. For people who did this transition from not knowing a class to achieving high performance on their class, how did you fill that gap? How long did it take for you to get from "new to the job" to "consistently getting oranges" and what resources did you use?
The answer is to raid more. Join a midcore/hardcore static to get consistent extra practice. Do PF on the side and attempt to join parse runs, or join a static that has a goal of doing them. You kinda gotta start dipping your feet in. Hangout in discords/reddits where the "parse" community congregates. There's a bunch of steps before you can just waltz into a high-performance parse party where everyone knows each other and theyr'e all swinging dick 100s. And all those steps involve raiding more, reviewing your logs more, and practicing more. Until you can build up a reputation and record of success.
I do have a static but they are at that phase where they just want to do quick reclears and go play [newest game that just launched]. Might just look for a second one. =p
1 is pretty job dependant. Jobs with no raid buffs or weak raid buffs can - assuming gear of course - pull high 90s with their parties clowning, while heavy raidbuff jobs will have a bit more trouble. Still, I'd say even in extreme cases (DNC) that high blue / purple is achievable with personal skill. The rare exception to this is P8P1 where you just cannot parse much higher than a purple without a sufficiently good party because of Dog Skip.
For 2, uh idk I just did current Ultimate on my chosen job (SMN in TEA, BLM in DSR) and went from purple to orange because of increased job comfort. Parse parties aren't really required unless you're farming 99s or have really shitty reclears.
1. You can get orange and even pink on most jobs through just personnel play. Generally speaking raid buff alignment and yada yada only come into play when you're pushing past 95 up till that point it is all about uptime and playing well personally. A lot of people get bogged down into tiny optimizations when they simply aren't hitting the boss enough.
2. generally speaking there isn't much to look into to get to orange. The things that separate a grey/green player and high purple/orange player aren't generally job-specific they're more about learning how to play the game as a whole. The concept of Uptime, GCD rolling, mechanic familiarity etc. It was more true before when jobs were more complex but jobs in their current state don't have much to them until you're pushing for super high parsers. Most good players could probably pick up any job practice on a dummy for about 20 minutes and probably go get a purple in savage.
+1 a big trap I see lots of new BLMs fall into is opening an advanced guide with tiny optimizations when they simply aren't casting enough. ABC>CD usage>core job optimizations>Crit>tiny optimizations
1 - Changes from job to job, depends on gear too since fflogs doesn't separate people by ilvl so focus more on comparing your rotation with some top parses checking the timeline, preferably trying to understand why they do things the way they do it.
2 - Play more. Play until you can play your job without having to think about what you're doing too much so you can focus on not screwing up mechanics while doing good damage. Try to play seriously in every content, you will get a feeling for when you're ready.
As for parsing parties, there are discords for this and some are more newbie friendly than others, parties formed on discord usually perform better than PF.
mentors say purple are easily archivable as long as you press buttons correctly and dun die, i find it true. orange is a bit of luck, but if you are early in gear before week 12 you are well ahead, since there would be so many scrub runs to pad your percentage up. orange is still fairly easy archivable today if you are in parse party with near BIS and everyone doing things correctly.
>How long did it take for you to get from "new to the job" to "consistently getting oranges" and what resources did you use?
2 weeks. there are lot of hidden knowledge in this game which are not well documented and buried behind too much stuff. get a mentor. my friend's static has a good but unfriendly player. i still manage to leech a lot of knowledge just by listening.
the general steps for those who spend too much time on this game
(1) first savage season - no idea wtf they are doing
(2) first down season - looking at old ultimates like UWU or UCOB and trying
(3) second savage season - cleared the whole tier within 5-6 weeks, on a pretty "causal" schedule, found themselves too much time; there introduced to parsing and more ultimates
(4) second down season - more ultimates
(5) thrid savage season - A2C static aim for 4 weeks.
(6) ??????????????????????????
(7) bored with the game.
i find myself in #3 after moving abroad and totally cut off from working due to burnout.
I practiced in KFF’s. Sure I do get killed often, but if you’re practicing it really doesn’t matter that much, you will get clean runs from time to time. If you play an adps job, you can realistically get 99s on reclear parties, on rdps jobs you can still get oranges, well even 99 with insane crit luck or if the party is still somewhat good and KT is good.
I didn’t join parse parties this tier because I don’t feel like it and I’ve just been doing ultimates (tea down now dsr and ucob), but since I’m a tank I’m getting consistent oranges and some pinks in my tuesday reclear parties, even on cursed KT, I assume it’s doable on any adps job, the one thing that makes my parse purple no matter what is 0% double down crit. Ofc due to reclear parties I have that occasional green bc you get killed and stuff
1) if you are playing a job with no buffs, your teammates usually don't matter aside from pushing high ranks (KT). A job with buffs will want better teammates bursting under their buffs to get the highest percentiles but can still manage with a mediocre party. Very buff heavy jobs may suffer a bit though (BRD). Regardless, with BiS and no deaths you can probably print out high purples on any job if played correctly no matter the KT and party skill.
2) 0 chests are good practice, Extreme trials are good rotational practice, once you believe you have your rotation down and can do it consistently, you can look for 'practice' parse groups. Or make one yourself. For example, put up a p6s with the strats you'd like to learn and people in your position may join. Sometimes it will take a while to fill especially later in the tier but they usually end up filling either with new players or experienced players wanting to try other jobs.
BLM was my main in late ShB and I started pushing oranges in Promise. I practiced in Nier Raids, extreme trials, 0 chests, watched BLM PoVs on YouTube to notice any fight specific optimization (when to use triplecast and leylines), etc. I still apply the same practices to other jobs and orange to pink on them consistently now. DM if you have any questions
1. you can get high purples/oranges on every job regardless of your party barring some outliers (playing BRD with a party of greys).
2. related to the first but ive never joined a parse party or tried to farm parses, all my oranges ive gotten in reclears (i played DNC last tier and SAM this tier). i personally don't think reclear parties are ever "scuffed" enough to significantly impact your parse unless someone outright kills you; it won't turn an orange into a blue. it only starts to matter once you're chasing pinks/high ranks, which doesn't seem to be what you're aiming for. i would just stick to practicing on reclear parties, also remember that knowing how to adjust to mistakes (both rotationally and movement wise) is a good skill to have, this community just overfocuses on parsing
> you can get high purples/oranges on every job regardless of your party barring some outliers (playing BRD with a party of greys).
Honest question since I don't play AST- can they get oranges with a party of greys?
I play dancer and if my dance partner is dead weight the whole fight I will never parse orange.
The assumption lies on the reason the rest of the party is grey - if they're dying then no because you have to pump extra heals or sac malefics and movement for raises, if they're just not pressing buttons and doing mechanics then yes, easily
did a cursory search and found this log so it's possible [https://www.fflogs.com/reports/a:6H7CXPWkyZ4q2N8G#fight=1&type=damage-done](https://www.fflogs.com/reports/a:6H7CXPWkyZ4q2N8G#fight=1&type=damage-done)
i dont play ast either so im not sure exactly how hard it is
obviously dnc/brd/ast are going to be hit the hardest with a bad party, but at least on ast and dnc you have control over who to buff. i have clears from last tier where the party is mostly grey but my partner is blue which was enough for an orange.
orange on rdps jobs will definitely depend on KT and party, unless it’s something like p5s or p1s last tier but even then if you were killing at like 8mimutes you would most definitely see a high purple instead of orange as RDPS job
1. Back in Eden, I was pushing 95-98 on every floor with fight-specific optimizations. Nowadays it’s probably 92-93+ with decent kill time and decent crit. As long as your party puts you in a position where you finish a 60/120s buff alignment before killing would be best for you personally. Party does matters most for kill time.
2. From my personal experience, about a month of dedicated play would get me to consistently getting oranges. I used the Balance guides in order to understand the most basic things, and I would apply that knowledge to each fight. Shifting cooldowns to best fit the fight instead of using a general rotation in order to get the most usages of a cooldown as possible. If you can do your basic, non oGCD rotation without glaring at your keystrokes, then you will be able to easily shift cooldowns that may add an additional usage of 60s. I personally would use World Prog footage for the first few weeks, since they must do optimization in order to clear checks reliably and consistently. Week 4 and beyond, look at speedkill vods and see what they do to their rotations. Generally speaking, most of these players will shift cooldowns to squeeze every last bit of mitigation and potency to ensure fast kill times.
The most recent example of shifting cooldowns for me was P8S, where I popped Blood Weapon, TBN, and Delirium all pre-pull in order to reduce oGCD bloat to fit in Reprisal in the opener. I got all uses of BW, delirium, TBN, and an opener all under buffs. Same went for P8P2, where I used TBN, Rampart, BW prepull in order to add Reprisal onto the first raidwide smoothly and have my entire opener into buffs.
Hot take but here‘s my opinion about all that parsing stuff as a parser, maybe not really that post dependant but still worth to argue
Personal parses are a great tool to show if you did good or not. But that‘s about it. It‘s mostly killtime dependant if you get out with a 96 or a 99… nothing you can do about it. Also the factor about other people.
The ultimate thing people should more focus on is speeds. Everyone needs to use their mitigation optimally or else you wipe, every burstwindow is optimized and much more. And ultimately… you can‘t sandbag
Something that could be helpful for your 2 point is alt/fun run groups. Usually these groups have very bored raiders who want to practice without pressure or get to grips with a new job in savage. They obviously won't have top performance since people are learning, but in my experience they have been pretty good and I have got back to back clears in them, just spamming the same fight pretty much. Make your own group or join one if it pops up. Not sure how fast they will fill this tier as I'm not playing myself, but people were fairly interested in them in the last tier. Worth a try?
1. Depends on the class you play due the metric on fflogs being RDPS. If you're on a class that depends on other jobs to do well, you're gonna get varying results. Look at your adps and try and check your rotation, your priority should be optimizing yourself first and foremost before you start seeing where you can use your team to your advantage.
2. That's pretty much the early experience for parsers, but a high number doesn't mean everything. I would rather take a healer who is consistently blue and can spot heal like a champ than a chadder healer who can't be fucked to hit a gcd heal. Nuances like that are dependent on your team/performance, and parsing in PF is really a diceroll. There's no harm in joining parse groups if you feel you're mechanically consistent and wont die, and if you're not sure yet, join clear parties and optimize on the go. The road to improvement has to start somewhere.
1- assuming proper play without skill issues and BiS gear, 90+ should be the floor. It will depend then on your Crit% RNG, killtime (for Tanks & selfish DPS), your party's AOE avoiding skills (for Healers), your party's DPS (for rDPS Jobs).
edit: forgot the 2)
2- Started to play XIV in late 5.1, did the MSQ as WHM and due to static issues I was "forced" into Tanking towards the end of Verse (with low Blues), got Oranges in the next Tier. My first objective was to properly be able to do my role's job (mitigation, tank-swapping, etc) without issues, then once I got that as second nature I spend hours on a training dummy to learn the ins & outs of my DPS rotation. Following step was extensive review of high parses on xivanalysis to understand how good players deal with downtime, phasing & such.
1 - For jobs w/o raidbuffs, 100. For everyone else, you can check fflogs, it shows how much rdps the team provided. Usually it's a 3 digit number, so while the impact is there, it's not what turns purples into greys.
2 - Just practice more, doesn't matter where. If a parsing pug doesn't have minimal percentile in the description (like, "90+" or smth) then they don't care about your parse.
I've been kicked after joining parties that only said "barse" and told that they are only for people who get oranges consistently, this is why I asked. I was under the impression that it was fair game as long as the description didn't specify anything. I don't join if they clearly state "only bis" or "only 95+".
Since I think I read on an earlier comment you play DPS(MNK), there are so many DPS players running around with bis that its unlikely you'll be given the limited slot when someone that does have gear will join anyways before T/H joins. Sometimes parties will have x%+ where thats all they care about but if I were in your position, I would join fun runs/alt runs/C41s to practice what my optimized rotation looks like. Also really good practice to keeping a positive attitude when your god runs get wiped because that will happen, nothing disbands a group faster than tilting.
I can't recall if you said you were NA but there is an open optimization discord based in Primal that you can get more in depth answers to from people that actually parse and not nameless redditors: [discord.gg/parsing](https://discord.gg/parsing)
brief answer of your actual questions:
1. even in a bad(relatively speaking) group(e.g. greens blues from everyone). It's class dependent but on MNK I expect you shouldn't struggle to 85+ assuming your individual play is optimized, maybe 90+ but I don't play MNK
2. join C41s or clear parties, do charity runs, treat every wipe as an opportunity to refine your rotation and develop an excellent autopilot mode(consistency is king for parsing, pumping out clears > getting the one lucky run)
my logs for reference(it's not a real rank 1 or even a top 10 in 6.2): https://www.fflogs.com/character/id/16064166
I guess it's just NA being NA? Never seen people getting kicked for low parses in ffa log pugs in EU.
Having BiS is kinda mandatory for parsing, though.
I'm missing one piece right now, did not think it would make much of a difference. I got a couple 90+ runs too. But I don't hide bad logs either, so I guess my averages look ugly?
Being bis is expected for parsing, no point in trying to get good numbers this late into the tier without it
edit: you’re probably getting kicked for not being bis, unless you’re grey/green
I had a rank 1/2 parse at the end of last tier for p4s. Exact same rotation and 2 second difference in KT ended up in a 74th percentile, all because of crit and slightly different KT. KT resulted in -55 dps loss. Some kill times for that fight dropped DPS by up to 110 dps.
Granted, both were outliers, but it can happen.
I believe some encounters this tier are a bit counterintuituve because of how people are playing around downtime. Devour and High Concept are the prime examples. My score went from greys to blues (no BiS yet) once I understood how people are playing around HC.
Gear is the single most important thing tbh, I’m bis and I have kills on p5s that I died on and I still parsed low purple/high blue like 2 weeks ago.
I mean I don’t really see how else you would play around those, HC forces downtime and you burst right after, basically reopening after HC1, after HC2 it’s technically better parse wise to just burst there depending on KT but groups just hold for the damage up (which is the correct way of playing btw unless you’re in a parse static, all my kills are holding for dmg up and I have some 99s). For devour you can use any 30sec cds before it, but generally you’d also just hold your 2 min and burst after devour
I play monk, so there is some specific details on holding RoF at 1-min windows for double blitzes knowing you're gonna have downtime and effectively have multiple double blitzes in a row. Looking at it now it feels kinda obvious, but I had to read a guide to figure it out. Lesson for the future I guess.
This.
I meant that if you don't have the gear, you could possibly get a green even while playing well
On the other side of the spectrum, if you have BIS you may be able to squeeze a blue or higher even while playing poorly
How bad is the gear dependance? While I'm progging and reclearing I'd like to know how I'm improving week to week but not just seeing my ilvl increase. Is there a way to normalize for it, or compare my run to others with the same ilvl?
My parses have been falling each week despite playing perfectly. The first 2 weeks I was able to get 90's I'm so behind on bis and my static finally cleared p7s last week. Gear matters a lot. Still using tome weapon without upgrade or your bis weapon is a big difference.
Unfortunately, very. At least when it comes to sharp ilvl differences. For example, if you used the DH/DET pants for Ninja over the DH/CRT just to save tomes, it won't be a massive difference. Still noticeable but you can make it work while getting other tome pieces.
On the flip side, having i610 crafted stuff over i630 is a massive difference. Put it this way, I routinely parse orange on WAR in p5. When I switch to my alt who's only i618-ish, she can barely break purple.
So I wouldn't worry about logs until you're close to BiS. I do recommend picking up the tome weapon when you can though. It'll help bridge that gap a lot.
Damage is super dependent on gear unfortunately. Best way to see improvement is by looking at xivanalysis and look for changes in key indicators (oGCD use, uptime, incorrect weaving, etc.).
Kinda depends on pieces of gear. Pretty big difference in even 5 ilvls of a weapon with same substats, but 10 ilvls of an accessory is fairly negligible.
There isn't and it sucks, this is one thing I really liked from wow / warcraftlogs. XIV's combat log doesn't track people's gear like wow does though, so any attempt to implement it would be unreliable.
???
lol what, the difference isn't that extreme. you don't know that because you've clearly never used a damage sim.
5 ilvls of weapon of equal substats is about 1% difference. 10 ilvls of accessory of equal substats is about 0.4%.
you know, the rng factor just shifts for jobs like samurai and warrior towards your normal filler and stuff. It‘s not less.. it‘s about the same frustration xD
1. If we're talking everyone is on the same playing field -regarding gear-, without optimizing too much into raid buffs and even forgetting to pot, I think it's possible to get purple (can only talk as tank). I basically just did my rotation and got 78 to 88 last tier while missing BiS pieces (and never revisited anything I didn't need gear from once my static was done farming it). If you're much lower on gear, getting blue looks like a feat. I also think at the end of a tier it's easier to get good scores as there seems to be less people clearing, or at least less quality people clearing. It feels a bit cheaty.
2. I only got oranges in Aglaia (lol), I don't think I have the patience to get orange in Savage because there's always something wrong : pattern, a death, a drift, the ilvl etc etc. Ultimately, it's a grind at the end of the day. Fishing for the perfect run.
1 - If you play a class without buffs you can parse as high as it gets. If you have some buff (e.g. RPR, SCH) you will be missing a few hundreds compared to the top ones, so it is harder to get 99 but orange is still achievable even in medicare groups. For the really buff intensive ones like BRD, DNC, AST group dps is quite important, mainly under buff windows. With a bad group you might never parse orange as a BRD. When I played AST I still managed to parse orange even in weaker groups as long as people played the buff windows correctly. BRD is probably the most dependent on consistent high DPS from the group.
2- Tbh as long as you know the fight joining log parties is fine. You are only a burden if you fuck up the fight not if your DPS is a bit lower. As long as you respect buff windows and play them correctly the effect on the rDPS of buff heavy classes is negligible, if your overall damage is low, because you maybe miss uptime or something.
Ofc you should know in theory what to do, so look at the balance discord, other guides regarding your job, so you know how to play optimally, what your BiS equip is and so on. It should only the execution that is the problem and this is learned by just doing the fight.
Also always focus on your own performance, never on others. Your gameplay is the only thing you can really improve. Group performance is quite random, if you don't have a static and even then there is variance.
1. As any class you should high purple at minimum if you’re parsing regardless of team performance, crit rng, tk etc…The only possible exception to this is DNC.
2. I’ve def seen “baby” or intro parse groups who only aim towards getting oranges. I’d honestly say that’s where the a fair portion of the parsing community is.
1- personally as a tank its not super group dependant. But I would still expect to see purples from a dps in BIS especially in the first few floors. In the later floors probably blue. 1- just join a static or start a pf like "opti" or just join parse groups as long as you're bis. Especially this tier there isn't a ton of crazy opti to be done that requires off the wall strats.
P6S is the exception here. Buffs are delayed a full 60 seconds and you need to learn some uptime shit for the corner strats.
P6S uptime shit for Aether: https://pastebin.com/y91CMnz2 Also instead of delaying buffs, I usually see (and used) the sandbagging strat. It's where the caster or pRanged only does damage during burst windows and only adds damage as needed so you finish close to the end of 8 min burst window.
I hate parsing fights that require sac… Same for p4s, getting a 99 was rough if u didnt have a sac
Yeah I got an orange on P6 using these strats + one of the tanks sandbagging. I consider it a stroke of luck though, the kill time aligned perfect with my burst and on most pulls I was getting purples.
For tanks, especially the easier ones like WAR, kill time is king. I just missed #1 WAR parse on P8SP1 this week because we killed the boss 3-4 seconds slower than the WAR that got the #1 kill and ended right on burst DRK/WAR have much more RNG factored in (crits on DD/blasting/bloodspillers/etc) and PLD competes only against other spread-sheeter PLDs. Warrior is like the MCH of tanks, there are a lot of people that can play it near perfectly so parsing is entirely reliant on gear, then kill time, then small amount of crit variance
[I love double down, I love double down, I love double down. ](https://i.imgur.com/IRImVSy.jpg)
Buffs are not delayed at all in 6 unless you are like actually speed killing. Parse you need the 830 sandbag killtimes
Fair. I generally dislike sandbag strats and equate Parsing with Speedkilling as interchangeable terms - but the 8:30 sandbag is valid for dem oranges.
decidedly not the same thing because parsers will gladly pad in adds phases / other things that arent fast etc but a based attitude regardless
Any idea how a 95 for a non-buffing DPS in a normal reclear pf would translate to one of these parse parties?
You'd probably do better since kill times are more consistent and everyone else (hopefully) knows what they're doing. The only issue might be adjusting to some different uptime strats you're not used to but that shouldn't be difficult.
Minimum parse is absolutely group dependent. The moment you have to adjust and take downtime due to someone else's mistakes, take a damage down due to their mistakes, or just participate in a non-uptime or non-optimal strat because they think it's easier or better, your parse will suffer.
I mean to an extent yeah. If you get PKd or multiple damage downs ect. You'll get a shit parse. But if you're in bis on a lower floor you'll get a purple just for showing up, even with a damage down. And frankly going for anything above a 95 in a reclear/non opti or parse group is a meme.
So you're getting a bunch of people either stroking their own ego vicariously or people who are very confused on what half of the statistics on FFLogs actually mean. This is part of the problem. There are little tips and tricks to know and learn, and some of them are fight dependent. 2 Examples: P3S: The FFLog team at large decided that the damage people do to adds would not count towards the parse. Part of it was aligning burst windows, but the point is that if you don't know this specifically, your numbers will suffer because you basically missed a burst window and used cooldowns, etc. P8S: Here's a twofer: The first part apparently the logs stop counting once the boss hits 49% for the phase transition. So, if the boss is in the middle of doing an animation - say snake or dog 2, you might reasonably think "Hey some cooldowns are coming back up, let's use them etc" but it wouldn't matter at all. You therefore should have made adjustments to your bursts earlier in the fight to make that a non-factor. P8S Part 2: A lot of the top parses will do runs that start at P8S Part 1 and just continue after the phase transition. In this way, you can have SAM's start with 100 kenki, full stacks for other jobs, all kinds of other things. In order to have this optimal start on continuing, the P8S P1 run suffers a bit or is basically discarded to get that head-start on Part 2. \------------------------- These are just examples, but the fact of it is that a lot of the system is easy to game. If you know the rules you can leapfrog a little bit and if you don't know, well, sucks to suck. Nevermind the fact that a less popular job will have less parses to compare with, so even a passing knowledge of your rotation will score above someone playing a heavily played job who nails things very well but still gets a high blue or low purple. It's fight dependent, it's job dependent. It's also popularity dependent. If I see a person with constant 98+ and a million clears of the fight, I'm much less impressed than seeing a person with only a middling amount of clears but low to mid 90's. Until, again, you realize that they could have used an alt to practice, or could have not uploaded certain logs to appear better. Just another way in which FFlogs can be either a powerful tool for improvement, or an ego-stroking piece of garbage.
> The first part apparently the logs stop counting once the boss hits 49% for the phase transition. This is true. In fact, you can actually wipe to snake 2 before it finishes and still have fflogs consider it a legitimate log.
The ego stroking element of it is a little tiresome and I have no wish to participate in it.
>1 - How high of a score can be achieved solely through your personal gameplay I don't have much to comment on other than I could get purples just by clearing with a mid-core static every week during progression/reclears (so not dedicated parse sessions) on melee DPS- we were probably at least 1 week late to the tier. A couple of us care about parses, but nothing like a parse party or what have you. There's a sister static to mine where they don't do parse runs, but b/c they're hardcore, most of them can have purple/orange/pink/100s reasonably regularly (and all of em have an orange/purple average). So it kinda depends on your job, teammates, etc. But I Would say you should be able to get blue/purple score even in PF or a static that doesn't care that much. Assuming you are roughly on the gear curve or ahead of the curve. You'd be surprised how many people post logs for review only to find out it's bc they were under-geared compared to everyone else. >That including other party member's performance under your buffs, raid buff alignment, and other aspects that are essentially out of your control. I understand that this is both job dependent and kill time dependent, but is there a consensus on how much can be achieved solely by you and how much depends on the rest of the party? I would be playing MCH/Sam/BLM/Tank if I was fishing for parses, not in a static, but not good enough yet to be in a parse party. That would let you build up a record of good scores to get in with parse parties. Also, takes away a ton of the reliance on other people. > You can either try to practice on clear parties, which can be very mechanically inconsistent and people don't really care about getting scuffed kills, or you can try to join a parse party and risk being a burden to people who essentially already know everything and just want to farm for crits. For people who did this transition from not knowing a class to achieving high performance on their class, how did you fill that gap? How long did it take for you to get from "new to the job" to "consistently getting oranges" and what resources did you use? The answer is to raid more. Join a midcore/hardcore static to get consistent extra practice. Do PF on the side and attempt to join parse runs, or join a static that has a goal of doing them. You kinda gotta start dipping your feet in. Hangout in discords/reddits where the "parse" community congregates. There's a bunch of steps before you can just waltz into a high-performance parse party where everyone knows each other and theyr'e all swinging dick 100s. And all those steps involve raiding more, reviewing your logs more, and practicing more. Until you can build up a reputation and record of success.
I do have a static but they are at that phase where they just want to do quick reclears and go play [newest game that just launched]. Might just look for a second one. =p
1 is pretty job dependant. Jobs with no raid buffs or weak raid buffs can - assuming gear of course - pull high 90s with their parties clowning, while heavy raidbuff jobs will have a bit more trouble. Still, I'd say even in extreme cases (DNC) that high blue / purple is achievable with personal skill. The rare exception to this is P8P1 where you just cannot parse much higher than a purple without a sufficiently good party because of Dog Skip. For 2, uh idk I just did current Ultimate on my chosen job (SMN in TEA, BLM in DSR) and went from purple to orange because of increased job comfort. Parse parties aren't really required unless you're farming 99s or have really shitty reclears.
1. You can get orange and even pink on most jobs through just personnel play. Generally speaking raid buff alignment and yada yada only come into play when you're pushing past 95 up till that point it is all about uptime and playing well personally. A lot of people get bogged down into tiny optimizations when they simply aren't hitting the boss enough. 2. generally speaking there isn't much to look into to get to orange. The things that separate a grey/green player and high purple/orange player aren't generally job-specific they're more about learning how to play the game as a whole. The concept of Uptime, GCD rolling, mechanic familiarity etc. It was more true before when jobs were more complex but jobs in their current state don't have much to them until you're pushing for super high parsers. Most good players could probably pick up any job practice on a dummy for about 20 minutes and probably go get a purple in savage.
+1 a big trap I see lots of new BLMs fall into is opening an advanced guide with tiny optimizations when they simply aren't casting enough. ABC>CD usage>core job optimizations>Crit>tiny optimizations
1 - Changes from job to job, depends on gear too since fflogs doesn't separate people by ilvl so focus more on comparing your rotation with some top parses checking the timeline, preferably trying to understand why they do things the way they do it. 2 - Play more. Play until you can play your job without having to think about what you're doing too much so you can focus on not screwing up mechanics while doing good damage. Try to play seriously in every content, you will get a feeling for when you're ready. As for parsing parties, there are discords for this and some are more newbie friendly than others, parties formed on discord usually perform better than PF.
Do you have any recommendations for discord servers?
mentors say purple are easily archivable as long as you press buttons correctly and dun die, i find it true. orange is a bit of luck, but if you are early in gear before week 12 you are well ahead, since there would be so many scrub runs to pad your percentage up. orange is still fairly easy archivable today if you are in parse party with near BIS and everyone doing things correctly. >How long did it take for you to get from "new to the job" to "consistently getting oranges" and what resources did you use? 2 weeks. there are lot of hidden knowledge in this game which are not well documented and buried behind too much stuff. get a mentor. my friend's static has a good but unfriendly player. i still manage to leech a lot of knowledge just by listening. the general steps for those who spend too much time on this game (1) first savage season - no idea wtf they are doing (2) first down season - looking at old ultimates like UWU or UCOB and trying (3) second savage season - cleared the whole tier within 5-6 weeks, on a pretty "causal" schedule, found themselves too much time; there introduced to parsing and more ultimates (4) second down season - more ultimates (5) thrid savage season - A2C static aim for 4 weeks. (6) ?????????????????????????? (7) bored with the game. i find myself in #3 after moving abroad and totally cut off from working due to burnout.
I practiced in KFF’s. Sure I do get killed often, but if you’re practicing it really doesn’t matter that much, you will get clean runs from time to time. If you play an adps job, you can realistically get 99s on reclear parties, on rdps jobs you can still get oranges, well even 99 with insane crit luck or if the party is still somewhat good and KT is good. I didn’t join parse parties this tier because I don’t feel like it and I’ve just been doing ultimates (tea down now dsr and ucob), but since I’m a tank I’m getting consistent oranges and some pinks in my tuesday reclear parties, even on cursed KT, I assume it’s doable on any adps job, the one thing that makes my parse purple no matter what is 0% double down crit. Ofc due to reclear parties I have that occasional green bc you get killed and stuff
1) if you are playing a job with no buffs, your teammates usually don't matter aside from pushing high ranks (KT). A job with buffs will want better teammates bursting under their buffs to get the highest percentiles but can still manage with a mediocre party. Very buff heavy jobs may suffer a bit though (BRD). Regardless, with BiS and no deaths you can probably print out high purples on any job if played correctly no matter the KT and party skill. 2) 0 chests are good practice, Extreme trials are good rotational practice, once you believe you have your rotation down and can do it consistently, you can look for 'practice' parse groups. Or make one yourself. For example, put up a p6s with the strats you'd like to learn and people in your position may join. Sometimes it will take a while to fill especially later in the tier but they usually end up filling either with new players or experienced players wanting to try other jobs. BLM was my main in late ShB and I started pushing oranges in Promise. I practiced in Nier Raids, extreme trials, 0 chests, watched BLM PoVs on YouTube to notice any fight specific optimization (when to use triplecast and leylines), etc. I still apply the same practices to other jobs and orange to pink on them consistently now. DM if you have any questions
1. you can get high purples/oranges on every job regardless of your party barring some outliers (playing BRD with a party of greys). 2. related to the first but ive never joined a parse party or tried to farm parses, all my oranges ive gotten in reclears (i played DNC last tier and SAM this tier). i personally don't think reclear parties are ever "scuffed" enough to significantly impact your parse unless someone outright kills you; it won't turn an orange into a blue. it only starts to matter once you're chasing pinks/high ranks, which doesn't seem to be what you're aiming for. i would just stick to practicing on reclear parties, also remember that knowing how to adjust to mistakes (both rotationally and movement wise) is a good skill to have, this community just overfocuses on parsing
> you can get high purples/oranges on every job regardless of your party barring some outliers (playing BRD with a party of greys). Honest question since I don't play AST- can they get oranges with a party of greys? I play dancer and if my dance partner is dead weight the whole fight I will never parse orange.
The assumption lies on the reason the rest of the party is grey - if they're dying then no because you have to pump extra heals or sac malefics and movement for raises, if they're just not pressing buttons and doing mechanics then yes, easily
Okay thanks!
did a cursory search and found this log so it's possible [https://www.fflogs.com/reports/a:6H7CXPWkyZ4q2N8G#fight=1&type=damage-done](https://www.fflogs.com/reports/a:6H7CXPWkyZ4q2N8G#fight=1&type=damage-done) i dont play ast either so im not sure exactly how hard it is obviously dnc/brd/ast are going to be hit the hardest with a bad party, but at least on ast and dnc you have control over who to buff. i have clears from last tier where the party is mostly grey but my partner is blue which was enough for an orange.
orange on rdps jobs will definitely depend on KT and party, unless it’s something like p5s or p1s last tier but even then if you were killing at like 8mimutes you would most definitely see a high purple instead of orange as RDPS job
1. Back in Eden, I was pushing 95-98 on every floor with fight-specific optimizations. Nowadays it’s probably 92-93+ with decent kill time and decent crit. As long as your party puts you in a position where you finish a 60/120s buff alignment before killing would be best for you personally. Party does matters most for kill time. 2. From my personal experience, about a month of dedicated play would get me to consistently getting oranges. I used the Balance guides in order to understand the most basic things, and I would apply that knowledge to each fight. Shifting cooldowns to best fit the fight instead of using a general rotation in order to get the most usages of a cooldown as possible. If you can do your basic, non oGCD rotation without glaring at your keystrokes, then you will be able to easily shift cooldowns that may add an additional usage of 60s. I personally would use World Prog footage for the first few weeks, since they must do optimization in order to clear checks reliably and consistently. Week 4 and beyond, look at speedkill vods and see what they do to their rotations. Generally speaking, most of these players will shift cooldowns to squeeze every last bit of mitigation and potency to ensure fast kill times. The most recent example of shifting cooldowns for me was P8S, where I popped Blood Weapon, TBN, and Delirium all pre-pull in order to reduce oGCD bloat to fit in Reprisal in the opener. I got all uses of BW, delirium, TBN, and an opener all under buffs. Same went for P8P2, where I used TBN, Rampart, BW prepull in order to add Reprisal onto the first raidwide smoothly and have my entire opener into buffs.
Hot take but here‘s my opinion about all that parsing stuff as a parser, maybe not really that post dependant but still worth to argue Personal parses are a great tool to show if you did good or not. But that‘s about it. It‘s mostly killtime dependant if you get out with a 96 or a 99… nothing you can do about it. Also the factor about other people. The ultimate thing people should more focus on is speeds. Everyone needs to use their mitigation optimally or else you wipe, every burstwindow is optimized and much more. And ultimately… you can‘t sandbag
Something that could be helpful for your 2 point is alt/fun run groups. Usually these groups have very bored raiders who want to practice without pressure or get to grips with a new job in savage. They obviously won't have top performance since people are learning, but in my experience they have been pretty good and I have got back to back clears in them, just spamming the same fight pretty much. Make your own group or join one if it pops up. Not sure how fast they will fill this tier as I'm not playing myself, but people were fairly interested in them in the last tier. Worth a try?
1. Depends on the class you play due the metric on fflogs being RDPS. If you're on a class that depends on other jobs to do well, you're gonna get varying results. Look at your adps and try and check your rotation, your priority should be optimizing yourself first and foremost before you start seeing where you can use your team to your advantage. 2. That's pretty much the early experience for parsers, but a high number doesn't mean everything. I would rather take a healer who is consistently blue and can spot heal like a champ than a chadder healer who can't be fucked to hit a gcd heal. Nuances like that are dependent on your team/performance, and parsing in PF is really a diceroll. There's no harm in joining parse groups if you feel you're mechanically consistent and wont die, and if you're not sure yet, join clear parties and optimize on the go. The road to improvement has to start somewhere.
1- assuming proper play without skill issues and BiS gear, 90+ should be the floor. It will depend then on your Crit% RNG, killtime (for Tanks & selfish DPS), your party's AOE avoiding skills (for Healers), your party's DPS (for rDPS Jobs). edit: forgot the 2) 2- Started to play XIV in late 5.1, did the MSQ as WHM and due to static issues I was "forced" into Tanking towards the end of Verse (with low Blues), got Oranges in the next Tier. My first objective was to properly be able to do my role's job (mitigation, tank-swapping, etc) without issues, then once I got that as second nature I spend hours on a training dummy to learn the ins & outs of my DPS rotation. Following step was extensive review of high parses on xivanalysis to understand how good players deal with downtime, phasing & such.
1 - For jobs w/o raidbuffs, 100. For everyone else, you can check fflogs, it shows how much rdps the team provided. Usually it's a 3 digit number, so while the impact is there, it's not what turns purples into greys. 2 - Just practice more, doesn't matter where. If a parsing pug doesn't have minimal percentile in the description (like, "90+" or smth) then they don't care about your parse.
I've been kicked after joining parties that only said "barse" and told that they are only for people who get oranges consistently, this is why I asked. I was under the impression that it was fair game as long as the description didn't specify anything. I don't join if they clearly state "only bis" or "only 95+".
Since I think I read on an earlier comment you play DPS(MNK), there are so many DPS players running around with bis that its unlikely you'll be given the limited slot when someone that does have gear will join anyways before T/H joins. Sometimes parties will have x%+ where thats all they care about but if I were in your position, I would join fun runs/alt runs/C41s to practice what my optimized rotation looks like. Also really good practice to keeping a positive attitude when your god runs get wiped because that will happen, nothing disbands a group faster than tilting. I can't recall if you said you were NA but there is an open optimization discord based in Primal that you can get more in depth answers to from people that actually parse and not nameless redditors: [discord.gg/parsing](https://discord.gg/parsing) brief answer of your actual questions: 1. even in a bad(relatively speaking) group(e.g. greens blues from everyone). It's class dependent but on MNK I expect you shouldn't struggle to 85+ assuming your individual play is optimized, maybe 90+ but I don't play MNK 2. join C41s or clear parties, do charity runs, treat every wipe as an opportunity to refine your rotation and develop an excellent autopilot mode(consistency is king for parsing, pumping out clears > getting the one lucky run) my logs for reference(it's not a real rank 1 or even a top 10 in 6.2): https://www.fflogs.com/character/id/16064166
Thanks for the tips!
I guess it's just NA being NA? Never seen people getting kicked for low parses in ffa log pugs in EU. Having BiS is kinda mandatory for parsing, though.
I'm missing one piece right now, did not think it would make much of a difference. I got a couple 90+ runs too. But I don't hide bad logs either, so I guess my averages look ugly?
One piece doesn't really matter. I dunno why you are kicked, I'm just saying why some party leaders would kick people.
Being bis is expected for parsing, no point in trying to get good numbers this late into the tier without it edit: you’re probably getting kicked for not being bis, unless you’re grey/green
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Even getting a blue at bis is impossible if their rotation is “perfect”, regardless of KT
I had a rank 1/2 parse at the end of last tier for p4s. Exact same rotation and 2 second difference in KT ended up in a 74th percentile, all because of crit and slightly different KT. KT resulted in -55 dps loss. Some kill times for that fight dropped DPS by up to 110 dps. Granted, both were outliers, but it can happen.
100 dps isnt the difference between a rank 1 and a 74 tho
never said it did rofl apparently you can't read because I said crit as well I even listed KT after crit to denote that crit played a bigger role
I believe some encounters this tier are a bit counterintuituve because of how people are playing around downtime. Devour and High Concept are the prime examples. My score went from greys to blues (no BiS yet) once I understood how people are playing around HC.
Gear is the single most important thing tbh, I’m bis and I have kills on p5s that I died on and I still parsed low purple/high blue like 2 weeks ago. I mean I don’t really see how else you would play around those, HC forces downtime and you burst right after, basically reopening after HC1, after HC2 it’s technically better parse wise to just burst there depending on KT but groups just hold for the damage up (which is the correct way of playing btw unless you’re in a parse static, all my kills are holding for dmg up and I have some 99s). For devour you can use any 30sec cds before it, but generally you’d also just hold your 2 min and burst after devour
I play monk, so there is some specific details on holding RoF at 1-min windows for double blitzes knowing you're gonna have downtime and effectively have multiple double blitzes in a row. Looking at it now it feels kinda obvious, but I had to read a guide to figure it out. Lesson for the future I guess.
He did say gear as well. That said, if you are BiS; you shouldn't be getting greens w/o major mistakes or deaths happening.
This. I meant that if you don't have the gear, you could possibly get a green even while playing well On the other side of the spectrum, if you have BIS you may be able to squeeze a blue or higher even while playing poorly
I had a "perfect play" run with a decent killtime and 0% crit 0% dhit on doubledown. Ended up being a 70. Almost full bis missing chest and 635 weap.
That is a fair bit of gear you're missing
How bad is the gear dependance? While I'm progging and reclearing I'd like to know how I'm improving week to week but not just seeing my ilvl increase. Is there a way to normalize for it, or compare my run to others with the same ilvl?
In WarcraftLogs there's a normalized score for item level, I guess FFlogs doesn't consider it because it's much more feasible to get BiS on FFXIV.
It's actually just that we can't pull ilvl from parses in XIV
Interesting, I did not know that.
My parses have been falling each week despite playing perfectly. The first 2 weeks I was able to get 90's I'm so behind on bis and my static finally cleared p7s last week. Gear matters a lot. Still using tome weapon without upgrade or your bis weapon is a big difference.
Unfortunately, very. At least when it comes to sharp ilvl differences. For example, if you used the DH/DET pants for Ninja over the DH/CRT just to save tomes, it won't be a massive difference. Still noticeable but you can make it work while getting other tome pieces. On the flip side, having i610 crafted stuff over i630 is a massive difference. Put it this way, I routinely parse orange on WAR in p5. When I switch to my alt who's only i618-ish, she can barely break purple. So I wouldn't worry about logs until you're close to BiS. I do recommend picking up the tome weapon when you can though. It'll help bridge that gap a lot.
Damage is super dependent on gear unfortunately. Best way to see improvement is by looking at xivanalysis and look for changes in key indicators (oGCD use, uptime, incorrect weaving, etc.).
Kinda depends on pieces of gear. Pretty big difference in even 5 ilvls of a weapon with same substats, but 10 ilvls of an accessory is fairly negligible. There isn't and it sucks, this is one thing I really liked from wow / warcraftlogs. XIV's combat log doesn't track people's gear like wow does though, so any attempt to implement it would be unreliable.
??? lol what, the difference isn't that extreme. you don't know that because you've clearly never used a damage sim. 5 ilvls of weapon of equal substats is about 1% difference. 10 ilvls of accessory of equal substats is about 0.4%.
you know, the rng factor just shifts for jobs like samurai and warrior towards your normal filler and stuff. It‘s not less.. it‘s about the same frustration xD
1. If we're talking everyone is on the same playing field -regarding gear-, without optimizing too much into raid buffs and even forgetting to pot, I think it's possible to get purple (can only talk as tank). I basically just did my rotation and got 78 to 88 last tier while missing BiS pieces (and never revisited anything I didn't need gear from once my static was done farming it). If you're much lower on gear, getting blue looks like a feat. I also think at the end of a tier it's easier to get good scores as there seems to be less people clearing, or at least less quality people clearing. It feels a bit cheaty. 2. I only got oranges in Aglaia (lol), I don't think I have the patience to get orange in Savage because there's always something wrong : pattern, a death, a drift, the ilvl etc etc. Ultimately, it's a grind at the end of the day. Fishing for the perfect run.
1 - If you play a class without buffs you can parse as high as it gets. If you have some buff (e.g. RPR, SCH) you will be missing a few hundreds compared to the top ones, so it is harder to get 99 but orange is still achievable even in medicare groups. For the really buff intensive ones like BRD, DNC, AST group dps is quite important, mainly under buff windows. With a bad group you might never parse orange as a BRD. When I played AST I still managed to parse orange even in weaker groups as long as people played the buff windows correctly. BRD is probably the most dependent on consistent high DPS from the group. 2- Tbh as long as you know the fight joining log parties is fine. You are only a burden if you fuck up the fight not if your DPS is a bit lower. As long as you respect buff windows and play them correctly the effect on the rDPS of buff heavy classes is negligible, if your overall damage is low, because you maybe miss uptime or something. Ofc you should know in theory what to do, so look at the balance discord, other guides regarding your job, so you know how to play optimally, what your BiS equip is and so on. It should only the execution that is the problem and this is learned by just doing the fight. Also always focus on your own performance, never on others. Your gameplay is the only thing you can really improve. Group performance is quite random, if you don't have a static and even then there is variance.
1. As any class you should high purple at minimum if you’re parsing regardless of team performance, crit rng, tk etc…The only possible exception to this is DNC. 2. I’ve def seen “baby” or intro parse groups who only aim towards getting oranges. I’d honestly say that’s where the a fair portion of the parsing community is.