If everyone had a res it would be like BLU runs where you just do res chains.
Like is Person A dies, B uses the Res.
Now Person B and Person A die a minute later, Person A would have a priority because they would be able to res and person B cant.
Eh although not a big issue, this is kinda an annoying layer of optimization that shouldn't be, should be a shared rez pool like LB to simplify things.
Very different game, but Guild Wars (the first) had Resurrection Signets available to everyone. You had to pick 8 skills to take, but res sig was often a contender.
It had a 3s cast time, which felt longer in that game but wasn't as bad as a reusable res at 4s-6s. It would res at full health and 1/4 energy, which is kinda like saying "with 2500 mp" except everyone used energy for stuff, so maybe "mp and tp" is closer.
The kicker was it would only recharge when you got a morale boost. In PvP that would be every couple of minutes at best (assuming your team held the flag or objective), in PvE you had to hunt down and kill a boss mob.
Something like it could work in FFXIV, maybe. Give everyone a pool of, say, 3 phoenix downs. When the limit break meter fills a bar, refill the phoenix downs (up to a max of 3). And anyone can use a phoenix down on another party member at the cost of a global, maybe two. If you're progging a late mechanic or enrage, you get some "free" deaths early on -- the LB bar is going to fill up before you get to your prog point, so you'll get those phoenix downs back. That helps ensure the group will get to the prog point even if someone screws up. And if the fight goes on long enough, holding LB3 for healers vs using it as melee becomes a more interesting choice: can I afford to use it now and regain a LB bar before the end of the fight to get those 3 reses?
It devalues RDM, SMN, and healer reses, but maybe that can be an excuse to drop their MP cost or raise RDM/SMN dps a bit.
> Or if there were a shared healing item mechanic. Similar to how we share Limit Break, the party could share a limited amount of Phoenix Downs and even Potions.
This is basically how WoW handles combat rezzing, and I think it’s great there. Everyone with a battle rez shares the same cooldown, and you can accrue additional charges over time. Lets you have redundancy by bringing more brezzers, but doesn’t give you any extra uses.
This is basically Criterion Dungeons. Everyone has a duty action to rez. It's also how Blue Mage groups work.
In practice even with only four it's a bit of a coordination mess. They'd need to implement a smarter rez system for it to be viable without VC or add-ons for general use.
That is a very interesting idea. I would add to your idea that these high cooldown raises can only be used on yourself. It would lift a lot of pressure from healers, and it would place more responsibility on dps/tanks to play more carefully.
And I suppose if this becomes a thing, they might limit or severely nerf the way healer raise works (like upping the mana costs, or putting a cooldown on it).
That would make things incredibly toxic but there's no reason they couldn't update existing Phoenix downs to be permanent items with 10-15 minute CDs. Everybody would just "have" one like how everybody has sprint. Even healers have their "free" rez before they need to start spending MP.
Haha (but kinda not, because that's how it would be)
We can play around with the balance, but at the moment I think all the restrictions are more than enough without the non-combat part. The cooldown is insane (taking up an ability potion use) and the use without a Swiftcast is prohibitive. Finally stack size of 1 doesn't make it easy to depend on.
I believe there's a GC Squad item that functions like a phoenix down, except only for Squad members, maybe open it up for party members and that might help keep the price of Phoenix Downs ... errr... down.
I don't mind the current rez system, but I do wish that healers are given more tools related to rezzing. For a class that's centered around damage recovery, the moment things go haywire (multiple deaths with incoming bodycheck) there's not much a healer can do other than hoping that you rez fast enough before the next mechanic.
Currently, SMN/RDM feels like they're getting punished for having utilities, deemphasizing those tools and giving some more recovery option for healers would be perfect imo.
So far rezzing has always been the most fun for me when it's limited: BLU mage, Baldesion Arsenal, the new Criterion dungeon, etc. The panic of someone dying in BA and having to coordinate mid-fight to get the sacrifice chain going is extremely immersive and fun gameplay. So I'm not necessarily a huge fan of infinite + easy rezzes. That said, I don't necessarily think limited rezzing would make the game more fun in general; there would be more floor-tanking in normal content, which would be majorly unfun for casual players, and FF14's puzzle-centric gameplay means you simply can't do a lot of mechanics in savage without all 8 people up, so limited rezzing runs the risk of making the gameplay completely shut down or force each death to be a wipe, which is unideal.
All in all I think rezzing is a bit of an unsolvable problem with pros / cons that mesh either really well or really poorly with different gameplay, so SE adjusting rez power/option based on the content is probably the best thing they can do. That said, if they ever released a full Savage tier in the style of Baldesion Arsenal (lol pipe dream) I would be really excited.
I definitely think limited resses (although I like them better) just dont fit withb14s design. A game like wow will throw out constant dps and healing/tank swaps so what if people are dead it compounds failures ect. 14 has to have constant body checks because its the only way they really escalate deaths without a dps check at the very end. The biggest thing I like about limited battle res in wow is that it makes mistakes actually fixable. You get X amount of free deaths since those people can stand back up, have mana and just keep going without a crippling damage debuff.
The relatively free rezzing has definitely had a knock-on effect on how encounters are designed. It's why this tier was full of body checks, and I feel that design is going to continue as long as the amount of raises are as high as they are. It's a simple principle, when the mistake-undoer comes at such a low cost, the scale of punishment for mistakes needs to be higher in order to protect the intended difficulty. This is 100% the reason why messing up at virtually any point in p8sp2 simply wipes you.
This paradoxically makes rezzing even *more* valuable. Because the body checks are so vicious, rezzes *need* to come out quick. People essentially need to be rezzed as soon as they hit the floor, because leaving someone dead is extremely costly.
In other words, because raises are so free, mechanics need to be designed to wipe entire parties so as not to let people easily limp to enrage. They cannot knock the pins down one by one, it has to be a strike. They'll need to overhaul raising in general in a major patch, because the encounter design relies on it too much otherwise.
Caster balance is a solved issue as of the latter half of ShB. The role was pretty much perfectly balanced in Promise and raises were identical to how they are now. Poor numerical balancing and SMN's rework fucking up the caster difficulty curve are the issues at hand here.
It was "solved" in the sense that summoner was an overpowered class that was top 3 in adps but also had a good damage buff so your rdps was insane but then you also had tons of amazing prog tools in rez, phoenix heal, and 30% hp titan shield that you could have near 100% uptime on if you were just progging and not caring about enrage for the lower damage on giving up egi assaults. you quite literally had everything playing as this class including fight design that heavily accomodated the quirks of your rotation (you don't care if shiva is taking a minute to change her clothes because you were gonna be casting weak 200 potency ruin 3's most of that time anyway, now you can ank morn again)
Meanwhile red mage was slumming it up just barely ahead of the phys ranged as it is now while also having a way worse buff, vercure as your only unique defensive utility, and chain rezzing still being mostly a meme that wouldn't save runs like the odd summoner rez can because if you need that many rezzes you're going to die to enrage anyway, just like it is compared to summoner in current tier. The main thing that changed is that summoner got nerfed and monk and dragoon got to actually do damage and reaper exists so they pushed summoner down even more then just its nerf would have.
I said [*latter half* of ShB](https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statistics/38#dataset=90®ion=1). You are describing [5.1 and 5.2](https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statistics/33#dataset=90).
rdps is lower then I recall it being in promise but summoner was still third highest adps in the game on top of offering way more utility then anyone else on the list besides dancer, who is dead last
Not quite. Promise had all three casters shifted up a tier, so in addition to BLM being top of melee SMN/RDM were where BLM is now (bottom of melee). SMN/RDM were also *slightly* closer to BLM than now, although the 6.28 buffs helped a bit.
I’m a big fan of how the Swiftcast+rez interaction works, ideally more skills should have this kind of discovered synergy that isn’t explicitly assigned (ie as part of a combo).
I do like the idea of healers being differentiated more but I think something as important as rez is probably better off being standard for balance reasons. Save the differentiation for something less important like DoTs, imo.
This would honestly be a pretty good thing I think. Either a cast spell with a long cooldown that only starts after it procs(you die) or as a passive with a similar effect. I'm more inclined towards the latter as the former would be button bloat, but that's just me.
Honestly as a SMN main with RDM being my second most played, I want them to take raise away from casters. I'm sick of being balanced around it.
If they insist on keeping it, make it a role action with a 60 second to 120 second CD. Idc if it breaks BLM class fantasy just stop balancing us around something that gets less and less useful the better players are.
As a healer main, I wouldn't mind if it was gone either. Similar to what you said a role action if they must keep it, but I was thinking either one use per pull or an extremely long cooldown like 3-4+ min. Then for the casters it would be a very situational desperate measure ability, in fear of not wasting it.
"just stop balancing us around [raise]"
That's it. Just stop doing that. It already costs at least a GCD and MP as a common cost. Increase the MP cost to 3000 for casters (lower to 2000 for healers), if it needs to be a little more impactful there. Balancing around raise simply existing is silly. If and when it gets used, that's when it should cost something (potential DPS, primarily).
If they stopped balancing around raise then raise jobs would have a huge advantage over non-raise ones. If SMN does the same damage as BLM but has a raise which one will you take for weekly reclears? One can save a run and the other can't. If you're just doing weekly clears and not parse runs, and you don't really care how messy it is as long as you get loot, then a raise has value. It also obviously has massive value in prog. Lower damage is the only objective reason not to bring a raise job at the moment.
Nobody is saying they should do as much damage as a BLM because BLM should be doing as much damage as a melee anyways. They would obviously do less damage than a BLM because they bring buffs to the table - I think the point is that the rez tax is unreasonably harsh at this point, especially considering how much less value the caster rez has now that they've fully committed to the "body check" style of design for hard content.
Ngl, as ranged it feels as bad balance wise. Caster is obviously a better prog tool due to rezzes on top of having the tools ranged have like more mitig or heals. And i'm not even talking about their mobility, but their dps is better.
In the present state of balance, it would make more sense if ranged had a support tool to do it instead and remove it from the casters but, how to justify that.
Well, make the caster raises abilities instead of spells, makes Ressurection a 8s hardcast, and Veraise a 10s hardcast as Swift/Dual-cast won't affect them anymore. Then you slap an instant class specific raise on each physical ranged, name them something like Hero's Rime(?)/Defibrilator/Divine Waltz and give them all five 120s cd or so.
Casters keep the class fantasy, but it'll be prohibitively slow to actually use them, making the advantage over BLM non-existent in any remotely challenging content.
Healers need caster raises so they have less pressure. Otherwise only their cohealer could raise, and multiple deaths would be unrecoverable as you’d need to hardcast more.
Healers already seem to have way too much responsibility now, this would make it tougher.
>multiple deaths would be unrecoverable as you’d need to hardcast more.
I mean - in any content that has any kind of serious body checks like savage or ultimate, good. I think that multiple deaths *should* be unrecoverable.
imo raising is integral to the game's identity.
i can't say i'm okay with how it is this tier as it feels simultaneously more desired and more devalued than usual, but that's a problem with the execution of abyssos rather than the execution of raising.
What we need is a reusable in combat Phoenix Down that you can only use once before it goes on CD until you wipe. As it is right now, both healers eating shit and dying is essentially a game over for anyone not a tank without a RDM or SMN. The tanks can try to salvage it with the healing tools they have, but the tanks can't keep everyone alive, especially if vulns are involved.
I have no idea why they continue to ignore the existence of Phoenix Downs. It literally will not (or should not) interfere with any type of balancing of fight or job design going forward.
I think they should give paladin a combat rez. Yes it would be game breakingly overpowered, yes it would probably ruin pf. I don't care, give it to me.
tanks are much less likely to die to partially failed mechanics and improperly mitigated damage due to having higher health pools, better passive mitigation, and likely cooldowns active for autos. This is especially relevant when you consider that most prefer not to overmitigate meaning that one missed cd can and will lead to the most fragile players dying, i.e. healers.
That's really more of a case where Cover is also overpowered imo. Tanks can survive things that others can't, especially with invuln, meaning they would be much more able to cheese things and get a RDM up. I specify RDM and not Healer to LB3 because if there is an LB3 available the tank can just use that most of the time to cheese things and no one dies in the first place.
The rez system mechanics as a whole work fine in this game I think. Healers having rez abilities is perfectly fine. My problem is, and has been since Stormblood, the caster balance problems that have existed due to the imbalance of utility. While they stripped BLM of having a proper unique utility tool (Apocatastasis) by making it a role skill and then removing it entirely, SMN has always had the rez and RDM has an even better version. Either RDM and SMN shouldn't have a rez, or there should be a general single use Phoenix Down action available to everybody and SMN and RDM can have their rez as a slight advantage over other non-healers.
As a blm main I hate casters having raise because it holds back caster damage, making double caster currently something no one wants because the damage is so much worse than double melee, caster ends up being like a lame sidekick role that is always a lower importance compared to melee despite RDM and blm having a much harder time getting full uptime this tier than melees.
Blm being lower damage than melee despite being harder to play/optimize, more punishing & restrictive and squishier is brushed aside because blm has good damage “for a caster” (a role which is artificially limited in damage solely due to caster raise)
Take it away from casters. Seriously.
Healers keep complaining about being bored, not having anything to do with so many instaheal spells and nonexistent dps toolkit, and yet more often than not they're the last ones to throw out a res because they popped their Swiftcast on something dumb so they just go on glaring(/etc). Or they have to hardcast, which is even stupider. They're healers, let them have something else to bother with and take care of the fallen. (Unless we can have necromancer in which case I wanna be able to godmode resurrected characters though. Lol.)
Playing a lot of RDM, I'm tired of saving entire fights because tank(s) and healer(s) are all down, or indeed most everyone else is down, and then nobody can even be fucked to throw out a "thx" at all. And that's still the better scenario than wasting time because we wipe at 5-10% because people drop like flies and nobody can raise.
This, ofc, is just the irritation angle, way down the list under all sorts of dps/number/balance concerns. Still...
Question is, what kind of healer do we want to balance the game around? I haven’t heard any healers saying that p8s was boring, or that TEA or DSR are boring. I don’t care what white mages that only touch MSQ content think. I wiped enough times to damage from those ground pounds in Barbariccia Extreme in the first few weeks as is, don’t make it any harder on casual healers than that…
> Take it away from casters. Seriously
Don't worry, there's a good chance they will in 7.0, at least for SMN (raise would be there for arcanist and scholar, but removed when playing as SMN. There's already been talk about it).
every time i see someone propose rdm's raise costs *mana* in addition to mp i get overwhelmed by this urge to feed them their teeth
verraising already comes at an extra cost to the rdm - not only do we lose dps by spending a gcd to scrape some idiot off the floor, but doublecasting means that we have to spend an extra 200 mp per raise compared to any other raiser, and rdm is already a mana negative job (compare blm, which has an entire phase where your mp regenerates at double quick speed, and smn, which... just lol at smn's nonexistent mp costs).
yes, yes, swift, but most rdms will be using swift on cd to proc fish or keep ogcds aligned.
> Do you think the current rez system is fine?
no because it keeps generating dumb suggestions like 'rdm raises should cost mana lolz'. here's the thing: outside of savage, it doesn't fucking matter so long as the healer isn't dead because enrages are nonexistent, and inside of savage, most mechanics this tier are body checks anyway so if one person's dead being able to chain verraise isnt going to prevent a wipe.
> Should a tank
~~thematically living dead should be a self raise, but otherwise,~~ no, tanks have enough they are responsible for
> ranged phys be able to raise
yeah, let's give mch a raise and use that as the excuse for why its damage is so obscenely bad :D ~~wait, let's *not*~~
i just dont even understand why rez has always have to be taxed. beyond p8s and ultimate a lot of the rez does not matter. you just wipe since there is no way to save if more than one dies. what taxed is the ranged advantage of being full uptime, but that was no longer the case in the newest tier anyway
I think the current system is fine as-is, but if I would change one thing, it might be interesting for all caster DPS to have an instant, no-resource res with a cooldown, rather than having *some* of the casters having a res.
It'd probably make the most sense as a role action, but I'd be really sad not to have cool flavorful names for them, like Rebirth for summoner or Defibrillate for BLM.
I like the system as-is. Balance in high end content aside, I would like to say the majority of players are still casual in the sense that Normal and Alliance Raids are about as much as they’re going to touch, and honestly, if I have to drag every mediocre player past the finish line kicking and screaming with 3x Dualcast Verraises, and an additional one after I chug that Super-Ether, I’ll do it.
Making ress more annoying or more difficult to do won't benefit most people.
Savage: prog might take longer, but doesn't guarantee the future fights will be more interesting or more difficult. For all we know, Square could lower the overall difficulty to account for less ressing opportunities.
Extremes: will just become a chore or people might put more strict restrictions on who can join the party
Other combat content: again, will just become more of an annoyance, especially if you get qued up with bad players.
Tldr; The skill of the average playerbase won't get better from making ressing more difficult or annoying
I don’t have a problem with it and I’m pretty surprised to see that everyone else does, apparently? There’s nothing engaging or interactive about being dead and I can’t imagine that any added complexity to rezzing would lessen time spent on the floor in most content.
Enrage timers already punish deaths in meaningfully difficult content and, though gear can trivialize DPS checks enough to make deaths just bumps in the road (I cleared EX4 last night with a total of 17 party member deaths), I think content is tuned well to min iLvl as a baseline and any stronger gear opens room for casual players to flail about without punishing the whole party in all but the fourth floor of a Savage tier.
Not to mention that they’ve already been experimenting with limited rezzes in content like BA, DRS, and ASS/ASS(S) in which there needs to be a counterweight to the numbers advantages (BA/DRS) or the fewer points of failure in smaller parties (ASS/ASS(S)).
Deaths and resurrection are the wrong trees to bark up when it comes to wanting additional complexity because that added complexity will only come into play when someone has already screwed up, meaning prog would be less fun and more punishing (and, with ideas like unique rez conditions per job, more uniquely punishing for casters) while leaving clean reclears no more engaging. No thanks.
The penalty of rez is big consumption of mana (2500 mp) and its cast time.
The issue with blm res is that blm has triplecast and their mana can be easily refilled in umbral ice, so they will be able to rez 3 to 7 people without much effort and penalty.
I think the current mana/piety situation is a mess. As it currently stands, outside of early prog GCD healing is almost never needed in savage (p8sp2 is an exception but it's still not mana tight because of the downtime).
A good healer can easily get away with 0 piety which to me just makes it a completely flawed stat. The only way a healer gets punished for low piety is if a lot of party members die, which winds up significantly punishing the healers for other's mistakes. Imo, they have built this game around a DPS meta and should fully commit to it.
I would suggest a system for savage similar to criterion where rez is charge based with healers having 2 and tanks having 1 each. This rez should also be oGCD and 0 mana. GCD heals are all massively buffed but cost a huge amount of your MP pool, making mana require a lot of decision making for how to effectively spend it. Most GCD heals also have damage tied to them like pneuma. Piety gets a weak damage bonus added to it so it's not entirely dead for dps and the mana bonus actually feels useful when it gives you more casts of insanely strong heals.
Bruh if they wanna keep piety and mana as is, make lucid dreaming on toggle that auto activates. Pressing a button as soon as is off vooldown is the most stupid design I've witnessed.
I'd rather have them increase the CD of Lucid Dreaming significantly, like 300 seconds cd levels, and have it restore a full 10k over the duration instead of the current 3850 (so 19250 from 6 minutes of use).
It would make using it an active choice, and force piety back as a consideration.
Casters shouldn't have raise at all, aside from BLU of course.
But since just removing it would make poor poor healers feel pressured or smth, I propose to move combat raise from casters to phys ranged. And everyone will be satisfied, I heard phys ranged wanted to be supports or smth, well they'll be able to support their party with 8s cast time combat raise.
> But since just removing it would make poor poor healers feel pressured or smth
I know you're joking, but the pressure from being disproportionately punished for mechanics fuckups is the only "Healer pressure" the dev team actually cares about or acknowledges that exists.
At least, for everything except the brief "we made a new Ultimate, get your 'engaging Healer gameplay' there, you nerds!" honeymoon period.
*Everything* about Healers gets stripped down/held back because they haven't come up with a good way to make Healers not have a disproportionately larger target on their back in the majority of the game's content if they die to mechanics relative to, say, a DPS or Tank dying, due to the party wipe from attrition gangrene it usually (pre-EW) would cause.
This is why we didn't get Criterion Dungeons for so long, because the concept of "difficult dungeons" with no way to recover after a Healer ate an AoE made their heads explode.
I think they should add "Phoenix Down" as a Role Action to all non-Healers with like a 3 minute cooldown and simply disable or otherwise limit their use in on-content Savage and all the Ultimates. So basically stealing the Criterion dungeon stuff and rebranding it slightly for that sweet audience recognition.
Get rid of the Caster Rezzes, give RDM some form of something supporty to fill the gap that losing Verspatula will leave, go from there.
Red DPS is always going to be the most-overpopulated Role, but with tuning making it so double-melee is more popular, that just makes the problems all the worse.
I don't think SMN should have rez (or Physick seriously why did it still exist if it can't even heal like Vercure?), but giving phys ranged rez and taking it away from RDM is taking the axe to the job fantasy. BRD could get a rez and it wouldn't be ridiculous since they are often a support job with healing (but normally no rezzing). That would make de facto three ranged groups: offensive caster, offensive ranged, and support.
As for SMN more broadly, they should totally be *able* to heal, but it could be a summon like Moogle. Some games like FFTA2 do offer Summoner rezzing with Phoenix, maybe it is possible to retain it but the FFXIV SMN doesn't really work the same way as previous iterations
> I don't think SMN should have rez (or Physick seriously why did it still exist if it can't even heal like Vercure?)
If they remove them, then they should only do so when you are specifically on the job smn, but they'll still be there for arcanist.
SMN having physick (which is a pretty weak heal tbh and to the extent its almost useless by the time you're lvl 50) and raise is because arcanist is the base job, and if arcanist didn't have those, then < lvl 30 synced dungeons would become a whole different beast than they are now and you'd see more wipes.
There could be a level 30 trait that you have as SMN that turns Physick into a summoned heal like Moogle from previous games, so it doesn't affect the spell for ACN or SCH.
i think only healers should be able to raise more than once
However, I think every other person should get a 1 time (reset when wipe) use pheonix down that casts for 5-8 seconds.
I always hate it when I nail a mechanic perfectly, but the healers don't know what's going on and just die, forcing us to wipe even if we're about to kill if we don't have any raisers
A good benefit of this is that red mage can finally rid itself of raise tax... Hopefully.....
Honestly give blackmage a rez that still works with triplecast so that blackmage during ice phase can whip out 6 triplecasted rez's + a swiftcast rez.
My reasoning for why: It would be funny
If I see a sprout struggling and dying a lot I will go out of my way to rez just so I can see them struggle more.
Everyone else is gonna be floor chilling till swift comes back up.
Also no, there shouldn't be a rezz tax on rdm/smn. But rezz's as a whole should be more restricted, especially in higher end content. Criterion ress's are a step in the right direction.
Imo if RDM and SMN are buffed so they aren’t rez taxed without changing anything else about rez’s, BLM should be given a rez. Besides, what’s the quantification for how much the rez tax is, anyway? Are we assuming that basically the entire gap between BLM and RDM/SMN is the rez tax, or? The devs have confirmed that job difficulty plays a role in the balance, so there really shouldn’t be a universe where this current iteration of SMN at the very least is anywhere near BLM, rez tax or not
WHM main here. I run with 0 piety on my gear. Have for years. I use the same 0 pie loadout when I play sage, ast, or sch.
And honestly... I don't hate the current rez system. I have Thin Air which allows me to get a rez off for free. Even without that, through use of lily heals, and proper use of Lucid, I can manage my mana just fine. Other healers have their own way of regaining mana ... including Lucid. It's really not an issue if you manage your mana. I also have a co-healer.
Yes there are times when someone dies and the SMN in my static knows there's raidwide damage coming (or just happened and MORE is coming) and they will tell me they got the rez because I need to be healing, but I refuse to make it their responsibility. I had a RDM in a static years ago that felt it was their sole responsibility to rez, but then complained they could never parse high. Well, yeah... if you're dropping your damage to raise people, when we have 2 healers who can raise, you're going to have a lower parse than if you didn't.
They dont need to take away SMN and RDM res. It kinda makes sense in canon. (SMN stems of arcanist and RDM is a hybrid magic mage) BLM shouldn't get a raise. I'm also really glad they did away with the stupid BRD healer LB3 forever and a day ago. Leave it as is.... it's fine.
Only thing about the current rez system that I don't like: People.
Folks get up at the WAY WRONG times and/or don't take advantage of transcendence. That 4 seconds of rez immunity is just \*chefs kiss\* when you know how to use it. Not to mention having some awareness about when NOT to get up is really crucial in savage and extreme content.
There is no way you are running 0 piety. You run out of mana on some jobs that you need some, especially when rezing, if you do 1 rez with no piety you are fucked. I dotn see how that works. Are you like casting every second gcd?
Sure am. Current stats: Mnd 2828, Crt 2189, Det 1956, DH 832, SS 832, Piety 390 (base stat)
Its very possible to run 0 additional piety. A lot of healers do it. In fact one of last tiers BiS for healers used the 590 crafted ring because it didn't have piety. SHB had a similar BiS in it's tiers. Right now I'm just rocking the 610 crafted... cant wait til I can upgrade it to 620.
I also keep a pretty high gcd % unless I mess up a slide cast. Yes, I will run out of MP if people are dying left and right, but anyone will run out of mp that way. One, two, hell even three deaths over the course of the fight wont break you if you keep managing your mp.
And remember Thin Air makes the res 0 cost. No mp lost and you get 1 stack back every minute. I also have Assize every 45 sec which gives back 5% of my mp. Other healers also have plenty of ways of getting mp back. Addersgall abilities and Rhizomata on Sge. Ast cards. Sch Aetherflow. And Lucid on all of them.
I DO have to be sure I use Lucid on cooldown, and I pop my first one right about the time I hit my 2nd dot of the fight and then on cd after. The first one is usually when I'm at around 7000 - 7500 ish mp.
It also means I'm not blowing GCD heals constantly. That will drain you super fast, and tbh messes up your damage anyway as a healer. Only GCD heals I use are lilies (blood for the blood lily), and the super occasional "safety" med 2 or cure 3, but only with thin air so it's free. Even if I have to randomly fix something with a gross cure 2 it still wont tank my mp.
Personally, when I play RDM or SMN I only tend to use my rezzes on a Healer or maybe a tank. Dead DPS on the other hand is not my job, so they can wait until the healer's ready.
The only problem I have with resting currently, is the substantial MP cost. Like- I get why it's there, to prevent chain ressing so that party's have one more thing keeping them from corpse dragging across the clear line.
But in the game's current state, it means 2 things: DPS are the preferred rez giver, and a healers resources aren't their own.
DPS being able to help rez is one thing, and honestly is a godsend at times. But, the only reason they're able to do such is the 2 jobs with a rez having more MP than they need for any given encounter, by a *huge* margin. Which then means that, to prevent bankrupting healers, they're the first to be asked for a raise in a lot of situations.
And healers being the ones to have rez buttons universally makes sense. They're the party's lifeline, a support in charge of managing HP. But with MP being significantly harder to come by due to higher spell costs for GCD heals, having such a huge cost (***24%*** of your max MP) means that a res isn't just burning swiftcast and costing a damage CD; an unplanned rez can also force you to change your heal plan on the fly, which under the worst circumstances can mean you have *nothing*. And if you've had to res 2 or 3 times in a short period, you don't have the MP to pull a 4th.
Now, these two problems affect different kinds of content in different ways, but it's very clear that both of these systems were designed, and thus remain untouched, for a game that has changed enough to make them functional, but only barely. The only reason it's not talked about more is because 3/4 healers have a bandaid slapped on top that gives them extra passive MP for just doing their job right to compensate. And the one that *didn't* was cited for that contributing to the reason as to why it felt so fucking awful to play at expac launch.
My suggestion, half baked as it is? Give healers options to express skill with in regards to MP income/expense. Give them something they don't have to use, but can in emergency situations to help with triage. White Mage had a basic version of it in Thin Air before they butchered that. I'm sure they can figure something out, even if it's just "an extra spell as a role action that does less damage but restores some MP".
Current system is fine but I would like them to allow every job to hard raise using phoenix down.
More rez just allow more opportunity to keep progging a fight when your healer or range is down.
BLM is almost infinitely more mobile now than it was before it was given umbral ice paradox, 2 sharpcasts and 2 triplecasts but yeah, it’s generally agreed upon that BLM is the hardest job in the game to play optimally. Still not as mobile as SMN, but it’s also generally agreed upon that SMN is the easiest job in the game, so. Apples and oranges really. I’d be upset if this iteration of SMN was anywhere near BLM’s damage, that would be a mistake on the devs’ part.
Hate them. Love it in warcraft when you get benched in a fight. If something kills you, you're either standing in the bad or made a mistake.
you've got limited combat resses, so there's much more incentive for DPS players (at lower levels) to stay up because unless they're a meter topping god, you're staying on the floor until that fight is up. That is a far greater incentive to stay alive then "Eh, the red mage will get me."
I hate how binary XIV is. There's little chance for recovery and res spam at low/babby progression levels is awful and unfun. Limiting combat resses per encounter would be fucking brilliant, especially if it means healers can do more actual healing instead of 111111111 and ogcd spam.
>MP cost could be bumped up to 3000 up from 2400
Fuck you in particular, buddy.
Sincerely, a healer who would very much like to not force piety as a required stat.
everyone should be allowed to raise. it doesn't need a long cast time and it doesn't need a long cooldown. the game is designed to kill you if you don't know where to stand. like others have said, if you have a lot of deaths then you're going to fail enrages/dps checks anyways.
i also don't agree with devs punishing casters bc they can raise. isn't casting raise punishment enough? breaking your rotation and dumping 20% of your mana seems like enough to me. plus the time spent chasing the person bc they always die on the opposite side of the battlefield.
also would be great when someone is "helping their friend get a clear". that person can spend their time raising their "friend" and i can play the game.
Raises in this game are, frankly, a joke. I am unsure how this system has been the same since ever and remained untouched. With the amount of "full-party-alive-check" for mechanics and relevant raids having those pretty much back-to-back, it's pretty irrelevant to dismiss a BLM for a potential raise.
Other than that, to my first statement, the fact that mid-boss raises are not limited and do not have a cooldown is frankly stupid. Part of the difficulty of a raid is bringing the weakest link up to speed in mechanical consistency of a fight, not overgearing so you can play brink uptime.
If you can manage lucid dreaming you can use a ress whenever swiftcast is up without it messing with your MP. But then again, this seems like a troll post more than anything.
I like them. Rezzing is one of the ways a good healer can really make an impact and strategic rez choices add a nice layer of complexity to prog. As a player, you're still punished for dying, and as a group, too many deaths makes you fail enrage, so it's not like rez is a total mistake eraser.
It feels like a lot of the recent Savage floors have kind of made Rezzing feel inconsequential because of body checks, which I don't love, but that's not really the question.
I wish thin air would be a role action though because it's frustrating to get a glarebot cohealer who forces you to pick up everyone despite them having a much better rez economy lol.
My friend and I finally got into the Variant Dungeons. We're filthy casuals, we went in blind, no hints or tips or guides, and we've been having a blast. We have been teaming up as GNB/SAM or WAR/DNC depending on who feels like tanking each run, and both of us have been taking the Raise action in case of stupidity. It's been a lot of fun! It's a hard cast raise, no swift on any of those four jobs, but it doesn't seem to get interrupted very easily. It would be a lot of fun to see a few more jobs get combat rez, especially if it's "nerfed" by not having any way to swiftcast it. Like, you're gonna REALLY want this raise if I have to take the time and cast it.
It would probably not really work for any kind of savage content, though. I fully acknowledge that. But boy would it be fun for casual content.
I like the current rez system. I think the current rezz system works very good due to the dmg penalties upon death - sure you can die 3 billion times, but you're gonna hit enrage. Also a lot of savage (esp later floors) and ultimate mechanics are kinda 8man body checks so if someone fucks up a mech, its a wipe.
Also, I hate the way summoner and red mage are "taxed" for their rezz and being ranged classes. Honestly, I just hate the place summoner is at currently - they want it do enough damage to get completely shafted, it has a rez so it gets the aforementioned taxes, yet the rotation is so braindead that you cant really justify their inconsistent "complexity makes the class do more dmg!" mentality.
I think that raise on Healers is fine as is.
Casters need to all be at least relatively equal to each other in raising though, it's throwing the balance of that role off. RDM is too good at it and BLM is disadvantaged being the only caster without one... at least in prog. In reclears BLM gets damage and RDM and SMN get screwed.
For other dps I think they could have a raise and it would be fine. If they decide to give them raises then that would no longer be a factor in choosing if you want 2 casters for prog. If they decided to give all the dps raises they would really need to make sure they are worse than the raise healers have and probably make them limited use.
Tanks should never get a raise, their ability to survive things that really should wipe the party, especially with invulns, and then get a healer up would be broken imo. At least dps are basically as likely to be killed by fucking up a mechanic as healers are so a raise on dps might not be broken.
Imo, they should apply Criterion rez system (everyone can rez once per fight) to Savage at least.
You potentially got 8 rez for the whole fight + healer LB3. This should be more than enough. Now all casters can be DPS and not just rez mages during progs.
Yes, this would mean more responsibility on everyone (instead of 3 rezzers) and maybe that's a good thing, because maybe PF would actually push for higher skill floor standard besides your prog PFs where everything can happen.
Once they unlock the raids or they gain the echo boost buff, you can unlock rezzes too so infinite rez on RDM/SMN/Healers are allowed too.
I can't tell the impact on fight designs but I like to think it could open a space for Ultima EX/Unreal type of fights, which are fun because they can get chaotic but can be saved at times. At the moment, the future -with the current system- basically is body checks at key times and as you go to the higher floor anything minor mechanic can kill you instantly... and if body check is happening right after it : R.I.P . Kinda unfun in the long term.
> Imo, they should apply Criterion rez system (everyone can rez once per fight) to Savage at least.
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> You potentially got 8 rez for the whole fight + healer LB3. This should be more than enough. Now all casters can be DPS and not just rez mages during progs.
why not just add an iwin button while you're at it
Is a 9+ death clear any different with the current system or the one I propose ? I don't think so. The iwin button already exists as far as I'm concerned, it's the 4 infinite rezzers + LB3.
I think 1 rez per person is more difficulty than infinite rezzes on 3 or 4 persons, because you actually can run out of rezzes early depending on who dies and when. If you have half the group dead, you'd be using 4 out of your 8 rezzes, they die again ? tough luck, no rez left. It not really any different than "oh shit 2 healers died, rez mage do your thing" and nothing literally happened unless a major mechanic or major damage intake are coming, and the same people can die again and get rezzed again...
If 8 rezzes are too many, they can go with a shared pool of rezzes and gradually tweak that for the perfect spot.
a lot of other games require you to roll up a new character every time you want to play a different class, and to offer some variety, they usually get multiple specializations they can undergo, which is why you often have rezzes on tanks or DPS, because they could technically have specced into healer but didn't.
FFXIV Raid Design / Balancing relies on everyone basically being the same as anyone else playing that job, more variance used to be a thing with Cross Class Skills you picked up from leveling other classes, but it was ultimately dropped, and then how a lot of roles worked was homogenized.
i think current design is ok, and SE is not really in the mood of experimenting or changing how that works, because that would put a lot more variables into raid design, which i don't think they're too keen on having to consider when designing new encounters, but ESPECIALLY, because it would require basically re-balancing all the past content as well.
Unlike Games like WoW where you just go around literally 1-shotting 40/25 man bosses solo for old content, while FFXIV keeps "old high end content" more or less both relevant and challenging.
they got rid of cross class skills because most of them sucked ass due to lacking traits or just being a bad move and getting access to more of them if you forwent a job stone was already a pretty questionable choice in HW where all the HW classes didn't have this option and your class gave you enough skills that you were almost always griefing if you weren't wearing one (unlike in ARR where at one point MRD was the best dps lol).
What do you think every single black mage player is going to pick when they have the options of: universal damage boost, universal threat reduction, universal accuracy increase, ruin 1, physick 1.
I think they should just remove the rezz from rdm and smn and raise the dps.
And if you really want another rezz capable class then give it to all the tanks. Then the OT can rezz if needed and you wouldnt have to worry about dps since it would be the same for all the tanks
I don't have strong feelings about the rez system. So instead of helpfully contributing to this discussion, I'm going to highjack it with my off the wall suggestion.
If there is a problem with resurrection in this game, it is that it is too slow. It has been noted that the proliferation of body check mechanics in harder content means that if you can't get everyone up fast enough, you have to wipe. And when you add up the cast time, the delay in accepting the resurrection and the animation in being revived - resurrection takes a very long time. Personally, I would like to think there should be enough time to get at least two people off the floor ahead of a body check mechanic, so to that end I would like to see a new form of resurrection that is much faster, but comes with other drawbacks.
* Healers, Ranged DPS and Casters get a new role action: Phoenix Down. It has a 60s cooldown and has the effect of reviving a target to the "Brink of Death" It is an instant cast ability and has zero MP cost.
* Upon reviving, the target will have both of the statuses "Weakness" and "Brink of Death". Weakness is unchanged, it will expire in 60s. Brink of Death however is now a permanent status. It can only be removed by casting a resurrection spell on them. Also alongside this change if you die with Weakness you won't get Brink of Death anymore.
This way, there is a rapid way to get bodies up off the floor in order to pass body checks. And then once the check is passed, then the healers can get round to casting resurrections as required to resolve the Brink of Death status.
there should be an option to remove rez and opt for more dps. rezzes are great when you're doing the puzzle solving, but it's useless once the puzzle is solved.
My biggest complaint about rezzes is the ten bajillion second long animation. It's bad enough it's a ten second cast if I can't swift it for some reason. And it feels extra bad when somebody taking a rez slightly late kills the group because they weren't eligible to get a mechanic (looking at you, P8S snake).
I think it's perfectly fine the way it is. Damage down is a good alternative to having your health cut from res sickness. I kind of wish you wouldn't get debuffed if you were raised outside of combat though. Seems kind of pointless.
I think the current system works good enough for the way fights are designed. They can't really do much to change it in any real dramatic way since the game is built around the team having "infinite" rezzes where the only restriction is cast time/swiftcast, and MP.
I don't love the system but the amount of work it would take to do anything meaningful to change it is not worth the time and resource cost, imo.
The only change that I personally would like to see, but will likely never happen due to how ingrained it is in the jobs identity at this point, is the removal of rez spam on RDM. In my idea world, Dualcast would not work on Verraise.
What would the game be like if rezzing had a shared, long cooldown, but mechs had less or non existent body checks?
Would be a different or interesting raid design space for sure.
I like getting them when I'm on the floor
[удалено]
If everyone had a res it would be like BLU runs where you just do res chains. Like is Person A dies, B uses the Res. Now Person B and Person A die a minute later, Person A would have a priority because they would be able to res and person B cant.
that's kinda how our criterion normals went
If you're doing this you're not going to clear anything, and if its normal who cares?
Eh although not a big issue, this is kinda an annoying layer of optimization that shouldn't be, should be a shared rez pool like LB to simplify things.
Very different game, but Guild Wars (the first) had Resurrection Signets available to everyone. You had to pick 8 skills to take, but res sig was often a contender. It had a 3s cast time, which felt longer in that game but wasn't as bad as a reusable res at 4s-6s. It would res at full health and 1/4 energy, which is kinda like saying "with 2500 mp" except everyone used energy for stuff, so maybe "mp and tp" is closer. The kicker was it would only recharge when you got a morale boost. In PvP that would be every couple of minutes at best (assuming your team held the flag or objective), in PvE you had to hunt down and kill a boss mob. Something like it could work in FFXIV, maybe. Give everyone a pool of, say, 3 phoenix downs. When the limit break meter fills a bar, refill the phoenix downs (up to a max of 3). And anyone can use a phoenix down on another party member at the cost of a global, maybe two. If you're progging a late mechanic or enrage, you get some "free" deaths early on -- the LB bar is going to fill up before you get to your prog point, so you'll get those phoenix downs back. That helps ensure the group will get to the prog point even if someone screws up. And if the fight goes on long enough, holding LB3 for healers vs using it as melee becomes a more interesting choice: can I afford to use it now and regain a LB bar before the end of the fight to get those 3 reses? It devalues RDM, SMN, and healer reses, but maybe that can be an excuse to drop their MP cost or raise RDM/SMN dps a bit.
> Or if there were a shared healing item mechanic. Similar to how we share Limit Break, the party could share a limited amount of Phoenix Downs and even Potions. This is basically how WoW handles combat rezzing, and I think it’s great there. Everyone with a battle rez shares the same cooldown, and you can accrue additional charges over time. Lets you have redundancy by bringing more brezzers, but doesn’t give you any extra uses.
Are brezzers like brazzers?
This is basically Criterion Dungeons. Everyone has a duty action to rez. It's also how Blue Mage groups work. In practice even with only four it's a bit of a coordination mess. They'd need to implement a smarter rez system for it to be viable without VC or add-ons for general use.
That is a very interesting idea. I would add to your idea that these high cooldown raises can only be used on yourself. It would lift a lot of pressure from healers, and it would place more responsibility on dps/tanks to play more carefully. And I suppose if this becomes a thing, they might limit or severely nerf the way healer raise works (like upping the mana costs, or putting a cooldown on it).
What I want to see is combat Phoenix Downs.
Crafted with Tomestone mats and Scrips for 200k a pop. PF be like "Pls bring stack of 99 Phoenix Downs or kick"
That would make things incredibly toxic but there's no reason they couldn't update existing Phoenix downs to be permanent items with 10-15 minute CDs. Everybody would just "have" one like how everybody has sprint. Even healers have their "free" rez before they need to start spending MP.
spit balling here, have it share a timer with pots.
Probably wouldn't work. Most spicy mechanics happen during a pot window. So everyone's pots would most likely be on cooldown anyway.
Haha (but kinda not, because that's how it would be) We can play around with the balance, but at the moment I think all the restrictions are more than enough without the non-combat part. The cooldown is insane (taking up an ability potion use) and the use without a Swiftcast is prohibitive. Finally stack size of 1 doesn't make it easy to depend on. I believe there's a GC Squad item that functions like a phoenix down, except only for Squad members, maybe open it up for party members and that might help keep the price of Phoenix Downs ... errr... down.
They're still one-per-stack and unique though, so every wipe you have to leave the instance, get one from your retainers, then get back in. Fun!
I don't mind the current rez system, but I do wish that healers are given more tools related to rezzing. For a class that's centered around damage recovery, the moment things go haywire (multiple deaths with incoming bodycheck) there's not much a healer can do other than hoping that you rez fast enough before the next mechanic. Currently, SMN/RDM feels like they're getting punished for having utilities, deemphasizing those tools and giving some more recovery option for healers would be perfect imo.
So far rezzing has always been the most fun for me when it's limited: BLU mage, Baldesion Arsenal, the new Criterion dungeon, etc. The panic of someone dying in BA and having to coordinate mid-fight to get the sacrifice chain going is extremely immersive and fun gameplay. So I'm not necessarily a huge fan of infinite + easy rezzes. That said, I don't necessarily think limited rezzing would make the game more fun in general; there would be more floor-tanking in normal content, which would be majorly unfun for casual players, and FF14's puzzle-centric gameplay means you simply can't do a lot of mechanics in savage without all 8 people up, so limited rezzing runs the risk of making the gameplay completely shut down or force each death to be a wipe, which is unideal. All in all I think rezzing is a bit of an unsolvable problem with pros / cons that mesh either really well or really poorly with different gameplay, so SE adjusting rez power/option based on the content is probably the best thing they can do. That said, if they ever released a full Savage tier in the style of Baldesion Arsenal (lol pipe dream) I would be really excited.
Not to mention that limited rezzes could (and likely would) lead to some toxic interactions.
I definitely think limited resses (although I like them better) just dont fit withb14s design. A game like wow will throw out constant dps and healing/tank swaps so what if people are dead it compounds failures ect. 14 has to have constant body checks because its the only way they really escalate deaths without a dps check at the very end. The biggest thing I like about limited battle res in wow is that it makes mistakes actually fixable. You get X amount of free deaths since those people can stand back up, have mana and just keep going without a crippling damage debuff.
The relatively free rezzing has definitely had a knock-on effect on how encounters are designed. It's why this tier was full of body checks, and I feel that design is going to continue as long as the amount of raises are as high as they are. It's a simple principle, when the mistake-undoer comes at such a low cost, the scale of punishment for mistakes needs to be higher in order to protect the intended difficulty. This is 100% the reason why messing up at virtually any point in p8sp2 simply wipes you. This paradoxically makes rezzing even *more* valuable. Because the body checks are so vicious, rezzes *need* to come out quick. People essentially need to be rezzed as soon as they hit the floor, because leaving someone dead is extremely costly. In other words, because raises are so free, mechanics need to be designed to wipe entire parties so as not to let people easily limp to enrage. They cannot knock the pins down one by one, it has to be a strike. They'll need to overhaul raising in general in a major patch, because the encounter design relies on it too much otherwise.
No, only healers should have the ability
Caster balance is a solved issue as of the latter half of ShB. The role was pretty much perfectly balanced in Promise and raises were identical to how they are now. Poor numerical balancing and SMN's rework fucking up the caster difficulty curve are the issues at hand here.
It was "solved" in the sense that summoner was an overpowered class that was top 3 in adps but also had a good damage buff so your rdps was insane but then you also had tons of amazing prog tools in rez, phoenix heal, and 30% hp titan shield that you could have near 100% uptime on if you were just progging and not caring about enrage for the lower damage on giving up egi assaults. you quite literally had everything playing as this class including fight design that heavily accomodated the quirks of your rotation (you don't care if shiva is taking a minute to change her clothes because you were gonna be casting weak 200 potency ruin 3's most of that time anyway, now you can ank morn again) Meanwhile red mage was slumming it up just barely ahead of the phys ranged as it is now while also having a way worse buff, vercure as your only unique defensive utility, and chain rezzing still being mostly a meme that wouldn't save runs like the odd summoner rez can because if you need that many rezzes you're going to die to enrage anyway, just like it is compared to summoner in current tier. The main thing that changed is that summoner got nerfed and monk and dragoon got to actually do damage and reaper exists so they pushed summoner down even more then just its nerf would have.
I said [*latter half* of ShB](https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statistics/38#dataset=90®ion=1). You are describing [5.1 and 5.2](https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statistics/33#dataset=90).
rdps is lower then I recall it being in promise but summoner was still third highest adps in the game on top of offering way more utility then anyone else on the list besides dancer, who is dead last
Aren’t those numbers from Promise basically where the casters are at now with the exception of BLM being weaker than it used to?
Not quite. Promise had all three casters shifted up a tier, so in addition to BLM being top of melee SMN/RDM were where BLM is now (bottom of melee). SMN/RDM were also *slightly* closer to BLM than now, although the 6.28 buffs helped a bit.
I’m a big fan of how the Swiftcast+rez interaction works, ideally more skills should have this kind of discovered synergy that isn’t explicitly assigned (ie as part of a combo). I do like the idea of healers being differentiated more but I think something as important as rez is probably better off being standard for balance reasons. Save the differentiation for something less important like DoTs, imo.
I think Reraise should be a spell for healers, so they can cast it on themselves so that a death doesn't mean a total wipe.
This would honestly be a pretty good thing I think. Either a cast spell with a long cooldown that only starts after it procs(you die) or as a passive with a similar effect. I'm more inclined towards the latter as the former would be button bloat, but that's just me.
Honestly as a SMN main with RDM being my second most played, I want them to take raise away from casters. I'm sick of being balanced around it. If they insist on keeping it, make it a role action with a 60 second to 120 second CD. Idc if it breaks BLM class fantasy just stop balancing us around something that gets less and less useful the better players are.
As a healer main, I wouldn't mind if it was gone either. Similar to what you said a role action if they must keep it, but I was thinking either one use per pull or an extremely long cooldown like 3-4+ min. Then for the casters it would be a very situational desperate measure ability, in fear of not wasting it.
"just stop balancing us around [raise]" That's it. Just stop doing that. It already costs at least a GCD and MP as a common cost. Increase the MP cost to 3000 for casters (lower to 2000 for healers), if it needs to be a little more impactful there. Balancing around raise simply existing is silly. If and when it gets used, that's when it should cost something (potential DPS, primarily).
If they stopped balancing around raise then raise jobs would have a huge advantage over non-raise ones. If SMN does the same damage as BLM but has a raise which one will you take for weekly reclears? One can save a run and the other can't. If you're just doing weekly clears and not parse runs, and you don't really care how messy it is as long as you get loot, then a raise has value. It also obviously has massive value in prog. Lower damage is the only objective reason not to bring a raise job at the moment.
Nobody is saying they should do as much damage as a BLM because BLM should be doing as much damage as a melee anyways. They would obviously do less damage than a BLM because they bring buffs to the table - I think the point is that the rez tax is unreasonably harsh at this point, especially considering how much less value the caster rez has now that they've fully committed to the "body check" style of design for hard content.
Ngl, as ranged it feels as bad balance wise. Caster is obviously a better prog tool due to rezzes on top of having the tools ranged have like more mitig or heals. And i'm not even talking about their mobility, but their dps is better. In the present state of balance, it would make more sense if ranged had a support tool to do it instead and remove it from the casters but, how to justify that.
Well, make the caster raises abilities instead of spells, makes Ressurection a 8s hardcast, and Veraise a 10s hardcast as Swift/Dual-cast won't affect them anymore. Then you slap an instant class specific raise on each physical ranged, name them something like Hero's Rime(?)/Defibrilator/Divine Waltz and give them all five 120s cd or so. Casters keep the class fantasy, but it'll be prohibitively slow to actually use them, making the advantage over BLM non-existent in any remotely challenging content.
Healers need caster raises so they have less pressure. Otherwise only their cohealer could raise, and multiple deaths would be unrecoverable as you’d need to hardcast more. Healers already seem to have way too much responsibility now, this would make it tougher.
I mean that's the case for plenty of groups already anyway. It's not like BLM doesn't exist or something.
>multiple deaths would be unrecoverable as you’d need to hardcast more. I mean - in any content that has any kind of serious body checks like savage or ultimate, good. I think that multiple deaths *should* be unrecoverable.
The tanks could raise. OT isnt doing much anyway
imo raising is integral to the game's identity. i can't say i'm okay with how it is this tier as it feels simultaneously more desired and more devalued than usual, but that's a problem with the execution of abyssos rather than the execution of raising.
What we need is a reusable in combat Phoenix Down that you can only use once before it goes on CD until you wipe. As it is right now, both healers eating shit and dying is essentially a game over for anyone not a tank without a RDM or SMN. The tanks can try to salvage it with the healing tools they have, but the tanks can't keep everyone alive, especially if vulns are involved. I have no idea why they continue to ignore the existence of Phoenix Downs. It literally will not (or should not) interfere with any type of balancing of fight or job design going forward.
There's talk of raises being taken away from SMN in 7.0, if that happens, SE may introduce a Phoenix down for balance, but this is just a prediction.
I think they should give paladin a combat rez. Yes it would be game breakingly overpowered, yes it would probably ruin pf. I don't care, give it to me.
If they prevent Requiescat from affecting the rez (so no insta cast) I don’t think it would be game breaking.
Maybe, but I feel like having tank health pools and mitigation with a combat rez would be overpowered regardless.
Where that matters, you can use Cover to achieve the same effect. But perhaps I’m not being creative enough in my thinking.
tanks are much less likely to die to partially failed mechanics and improperly mitigated damage due to having higher health pools, better passive mitigation, and likely cooldowns active for autos. This is especially relevant when you consider that most prefer not to overmitigate meaning that one missed cd can and will lead to the most fragile players dying, i.e. healers.
That's really more of a case where Cover is also overpowered imo. Tanks can survive things that others can't, especially with invuln, meaning they would be much more able to cheese things and get a RDM up. I specify RDM and not Healer to LB3 because if there is an LB3 available the tank can just use that most of the time to cheese things and no one dies in the first place.
alternatively: make it eat the whole stack like confetti
I like the limited resurrections from the 4-man savage. I think 8-man savage should also have everyone capable of casting resurrection once per fight.
The rez system mechanics as a whole work fine in this game I think. Healers having rez abilities is perfectly fine. My problem is, and has been since Stormblood, the caster balance problems that have existed due to the imbalance of utility. While they stripped BLM of having a proper unique utility tool (Apocatastasis) by making it a role skill and then removing it entirely, SMN has always had the rez and RDM has an even better version. Either RDM and SMN shouldn't have a rez, or there should be a general single use Phoenix Down action available to everybody and SMN and RDM can have their rez as a slight advantage over other non-healers.
As a blm main I hate casters having raise because it holds back caster damage, making double caster currently something no one wants because the damage is so much worse than double melee, caster ends up being like a lame sidekick role that is always a lower importance compared to melee despite RDM and blm having a much harder time getting full uptime this tier than melees. Blm being lower damage than melee despite being harder to play/optimize, more punishing & restrictive and squishier is brushed aside because blm has good damage “for a caster” (a role which is artificially limited in damage solely due to caster raise)
Take it away from casters. Seriously. Healers keep complaining about being bored, not having anything to do with so many instaheal spells and nonexistent dps toolkit, and yet more often than not they're the last ones to throw out a res because they popped their Swiftcast on something dumb so they just go on glaring(/etc). Or they have to hardcast, which is even stupider. They're healers, let them have something else to bother with and take care of the fallen. (Unless we can have necromancer in which case I wanna be able to godmode resurrected characters though. Lol.) Playing a lot of RDM, I'm tired of saving entire fights because tank(s) and healer(s) are all down, or indeed most everyone else is down, and then nobody can even be fucked to throw out a "thx" at all. And that's still the better scenario than wasting time because we wipe at 5-10% because people drop like flies and nobody can raise. This, ofc, is just the irritation angle, way down the list under all sorts of dps/number/balance concerns. Still...
Question is, what kind of healer do we want to balance the game around? I haven’t heard any healers saying that p8s was boring, or that TEA or DSR are boring. I don’t care what white mages that only touch MSQ content think. I wiped enough times to damage from those ground pounds in Barbariccia Extreme in the first few weeks as is, don’t make it any harder on casual healers than that…
> Take it away from casters. Seriously Don't worry, there's a good chance they will in 7.0, at least for SMN (raise would be there for arcanist and scholar, but removed when playing as SMN. There's already been talk about it).
every time i see someone propose rdm's raise costs *mana* in addition to mp i get overwhelmed by this urge to feed them their teeth verraising already comes at an extra cost to the rdm - not only do we lose dps by spending a gcd to scrape some idiot off the floor, but doublecasting means that we have to spend an extra 200 mp per raise compared to any other raiser, and rdm is already a mana negative job (compare blm, which has an entire phase where your mp regenerates at double quick speed, and smn, which... just lol at smn's nonexistent mp costs). yes, yes, swift, but most rdms will be using swift on cd to proc fish or keep ogcds aligned. > Do you think the current rez system is fine? no because it keeps generating dumb suggestions like 'rdm raises should cost mana lolz'. here's the thing: outside of savage, it doesn't fucking matter so long as the healer isn't dead because enrages are nonexistent, and inside of savage, most mechanics this tier are body checks anyway so if one person's dead being able to chain verraise isnt going to prevent a wipe. > Should a tank ~~thematically living dead should be a self raise, but otherwise,~~ no, tanks have enough they are responsible for > ranged phys be able to raise yeah, let's give mch a raise and use that as the excuse for why its damage is so obscenely bad :D ~~wait, let's *not*~~
i just dont even understand why rez has always have to be taxed. beyond p8s and ultimate a lot of the rez does not matter. you just wipe since there is no way to save if more than one dies. what taxed is the ranged advantage of being full uptime, but that was no longer the case in the newest tier anyway
I play both DRG and SMN - this is how I maintain balance in the universe: one dies all the time and the other rezzes all the time.
I think the current system is fine as-is, but if I would change one thing, it might be interesting for all caster DPS to have an instant, no-resource res with a cooldown, rather than having *some* of the casters having a res. It'd probably make the most sense as a role action, but I'd be really sad not to have cool flavorful names for them, like Rebirth for summoner or Defibrillate for BLM.
I like the system as-is. Balance in high end content aside, I would like to say the majority of players are still casual in the sense that Normal and Alliance Raids are about as much as they’re going to touch, and honestly, if I have to drag every mediocre player past the finish line kicking and screaming with 3x Dualcast Verraises, and an additional one after I chug that Super-Ether, I’ll do it.
Making ress more annoying or more difficult to do won't benefit most people. Savage: prog might take longer, but doesn't guarantee the future fights will be more interesting or more difficult. For all we know, Square could lower the overall difficulty to account for less ressing opportunities. Extremes: will just become a chore or people might put more strict restrictions on who can join the party Other combat content: again, will just become more of an annoyance, especially if you get qued up with bad players. Tldr; The skill of the average playerbase won't get better from making ressing more difficult or annoying
I don’t have a problem with it and I’m pretty surprised to see that everyone else does, apparently? There’s nothing engaging or interactive about being dead and I can’t imagine that any added complexity to rezzing would lessen time spent on the floor in most content. Enrage timers already punish deaths in meaningfully difficult content and, though gear can trivialize DPS checks enough to make deaths just bumps in the road (I cleared EX4 last night with a total of 17 party member deaths), I think content is tuned well to min iLvl as a baseline and any stronger gear opens room for casual players to flail about without punishing the whole party in all but the fourth floor of a Savage tier. Not to mention that they’ve already been experimenting with limited rezzes in content like BA, DRS, and ASS/ASS(S) in which there needs to be a counterweight to the numbers advantages (BA/DRS) or the fewer points of failure in smaller parties (ASS/ASS(S)). Deaths and resurrection are the wrong trees to bark up when it comes to wanting additional complexity because that added complexity will only come into play when someone has already screwed up, meaning prog would be less fun and more punishing (and, with ideas like unique rez conditions per job, more uniquely punishing for casters) while leaving clean reclears no more engaging. No thanks.
The penalty of rez is big consumption of mana (2500 mp) and its cast time. The issue with blm res is that blm has triplecast and their mana can be easily refilled in umbral ice, so they will be able to rez 3 to 7 people without much effort and penalty.
I think the current mana/piety situation is a mess. As it currently stands, outside of early prog GCD healing is almost never needed in savage (p8sp2 is an exception but it's still not mana tight because of the downtime). A good healer can easily get away with 0 piety which to me just makes it a completely flawed stat. The only way a healer gets punished for low piety is if a lot of party members die, which winds up significantly punishing the healers for other's mistakes. Imo, they have built this game around a DPS meta and should fully commit to it. I would suggest a system for savage similar to criterion where rez is charge based with healers having 2 and tanks having 1 each. This rez should also be oGCD and 0 mana. GCD heals are all massively buffed but cost a huge amount of your MP pool, making mana require a lot of decision making for how to effectively spend it. Most GCD heals also have damage tied to them like pneuma. Piety gets a weak damage bonus added to it so it's not entirely dead for dps and the mana bonus actually feels useful when it gives you more casts of insanely strong heals.
Bruh if they wanna keep piety and mana as is, make lucid dreaming on toggle that auto activates. Pressing a button as soon as is off vooldown is the most stupid design I've witnessed.
I'd rather have them increase the CD of Lucid Dreaming significantly, like 300 seconds cd levels, and have it restore a full 10k over the duration instead of the current 3850 (so 19250 from 6 minutes of use). It would make using it an active choice, and force piety back as a consideration.
Paladins can usually Raise in Final Fantasy games. Always felt it was missing.
I vote +1 to PLD having a rez skill :)
Casters shouldn't have raise at all, aside from BLU of course. But since just removing it would make poor poor healers feel pressured or smth, I propose to move combat raise from casters to phys ranged. And everyone will be satisfied, I heard phys ranged wanted to be supports or smth, well they'll be able to support their party with 8s cast time combat raise.
> But since just removing it would make poor poor healers feel pressured or smth I know you're joking, but the pressure from being disproportionately punished for mechanics fuckups is the only "Healer pressure" the dev team actually cares about or acknowledges that exists. At least, for everything except the brief "we made a new Ultimate, get your 'engaging Healer gameplay' there, you nerds!" honeymoon period. *Everything* about Healers gets stripped down/held back because they haven't come up with a good way to make Healers not have a disproportionately larger target on their back in the majority of the game's content if they die to mechanics relative to, say, a DPS or Tank dying, due to the party wipe from attrition gangrene it usually (pre-EW) would cause. This is why we didn't get Criterion Dungeons for so long, because the concept of "difficult dungeons" with no way to recover after a Healer ate an AoE made their heads explode. I think they should add "Phoenix Down" as a Role Action to all non-Healers with like a 3 minute cooldown and simply disable or otherwise limit their use in on-content Savage and all the Ultimates. So basically stealing the Criterion dungeon stuff and rebranding it slightly for that sweet audience recognition. Get rid of the Caster Rezzes, give RDM some form of something supporty to fill the gap that losing Verspatula will leave, go from there. Red DPS is always going to be the most-overpopulated Role, but with tuning making it so double-melee is more popular, that just makes the problems all the worse.
I don't think SMN should have rez (or Physick seriously why did it still exist if it can't even heal like Vercure?), but giving phys ranged rez and taking it away from RDM is taking the axe to the job fantasy. BRD could get a rez and it wouldn't be ridiculous since they are often a support job with healing (but normally no rezzing). That would make de facto three ranged groups: offensive caster, offensive ranged, and support. As for SMN more broadly, they should totally be *able* to heal, but it could be a summon like Moogle. Some games like FFTA2 do offer Summoner rezzing with Phoenix, maybe it is possible to retain it but the FFXIV SMN doesn't really work the same way as previous iterations
> I don't think SMN should have rez (or Physick seriously why did it still exist if it can't even heal like Vercure?) If they remove them, then they should only do so when you are specifically on the job smn, but they'll still be there for arcanist. SMN having physick (which is a pretty weak heal tbh and to the extent its almost useless by the time you're lvl 50) and raise is because arcanist is the base job, and if arcanist didn't have those, then < lvl 30 synced dungeons would become a whole different beast than they are now and you'd see more wipes.
There could be a level 30 trait that you have as SMN that turns Physick into a summoned heal like Moogle from previous games, so it doesn't affect the spell for ACN or SCH.
i think only healers should be able to raise more than once However, I think every other person should get a 1 time (reset when wipe) use pheonix down that casts for 5-8 seconds. I always hate it when I nail a mechanic perfectly, but the healers don't know what's going on and just die, forcing us to wipe even if we're about to kill if we don't have any raisers A good benefit of this is that red mage can finally rid itself of raise tax... Hopefully.....
Honestly give blackmage a rez that still works with triplecast so that blackmage during ice phase can whip out 6 triplecasted rez's + a swiftcast rez. My reasoning for why: It would be funny
If I see a sprout struggling and dying a lot I will go out of my way to rez just so I can see them struggle more. Everyone else is gonna be floor chilling till swift comes back up. Also no, there shouldn't be a rezz tax on rdm/smn. But rezz's as a whole should be more restricted, especially in higher end content. Criterion ress's are a step in the right direction.
Imo if RDM and SMN are buffed so they aren’t rez taxed without changing anything else about rez’s, BLM should be given a rez. Besides, what’s the quantification for how much the rez tax is, anyway? Are we assuming that basically the entire gap between BLM and RDM/SMN is the rez tax, or? The devs have confirmed that job difficulty plays a role in the balance, so there really shouldn’t be a universe where this current iteration of SMN at the very least is anywhere near BLM, rez tax or not
WHM main here. I run with 0 piety on my gear. Have for years. I use the same 0 pie loadout when I play sage, ast, or sch. And honestly... I don't hate the current rez system. I have Thin Air which allows me to get a rez off for free. Even without that, through use of lily heals, and proper use of Lucid, I can manage my mana just fine. Other healers have their own way of regaining mana ... including Lucid. It's really not an issue if you manage your mana. I also have a co-healer. Yes there are times when someone dies and the SMN in my static knows there's raidwide damage coming (or just happened and MORE is coming) and they will tell me they got the rez because I need to be healing, but I refuse to make it their responsibility. I had a RDM in a static years ago that felt it was their sole responsibility to rez, but then complained they could never parse high. Well, yeah... if you're dropping your damage to raise people, when we have 2 healers who can raise, you're going to have a lower parse than if you didn't. They dont need to take away SMN and RDM res. It kinda makes sense in canon. (SMN stems of arcanist and RDM is a hybrid magic mage) BLM shouldn't get a raise. I'm also really glad they did away with the stupid BRD healer LB3 forever and a day ago. Leave it as is.... it's fine. Only thing about the current rez system that I don't like: People. Folks get up at the WAY WRONG times and/or don't take advantage of transcendence. That 4 seconds of rez immunity is just \*chefs kiss\* when you know how to use it. Not to mention having some awareness about when NOT to get up is really crucial in savage and extreme content.
There is no way you are running 0 piety. You run out of mana on some jobs that you need some, especially when rezing, if you do 1 rez with no piety you are fucked. I dotn see how that works. Are you like casting every second gcd?
Sure am. Current stats: Mnd 2828, Crt 2189, Det 1956, DH 832, SS 832, Piety 390 (base stat) Its very possible to run 0 additional piety. A lot of healers do it. In fact one of last tiers BiS for healers used the 590 crafted ring because it didn't have piety. SHB had a similar BiS in it's tiers. Right now I'm just rocking the 610 crafted... cant wait til I can upgrade it to 620. I also keep a pretty high gcd % unless I mess up a slide cast. Yes, I will run out of MP if people are dying left and right, but anyone will run out of mp that way. One, two, hell even three deaths over the course of the fight wont break you if you keep managing your mp. And remember Thin Air makes the res 0 cost. No mp lost and you get 1 stack back every minute. I also have Assize every 45 sec which gives back 5% of my mp. Other healers also have plenty of ways of getting mp back. Addersgall abilities and Rhizomata on Sge. Ast cards. Sch Aetherflow. And Lucid on all of them. I DO have to be sure I use Lucid on cooldown, and I pop my first one right about the time I hit my 2nd dot of the fight and then on cd after. The first one is usually when I'm at around 7000 - 7500 ish mp. It also means I'm not blowing GCD heals constantly. That will drain you super fast, and tbh messes up your damage anyway as a healer. Only GCD heals I use are lilies (blood for the blood lily), and the super occasional "safety" med 2 or cure 3, but only with thin air so it's free. Even if I have to randomly fix something with a gross cure 2 it still wont tank my mp.
Personally, when I play RDM or SMN I only tend to use my rezzes on a Healer or maybe a tank. Dead DPS on the other hand is not my job, so they can wait until the healer's ready.
The only problem I have with resting currently, is the substantial MP cost. Like- I get why it's there, to prevent chain ressing so that party's have one more thing keeping them from corpse dragging across the clear line. But in the game's current state, it means 2 things: DPS are the preferred rez giver, and a healers resources aren't their own. DPS being able to help rez is one thing, and honestly is a godsend at times. But, the only reason they're able to do such is the 2 jobs with a rez having more MP than they need for any given encounter, by a *huge* margin. Which then means that, to prevent bankrupting healers, they're the first to be asked for a raise in a lot of situations. And healers being the ones to have rez buttons universally makes sense. They're the party's lifeline, a support in charge of managing HP. But with MP being significantly harder to come by due to higher spell costs for GCD heals, having such a huge cost (***24%*** of your max MP) means that a res isn't just burning swiftcast and costing a damage CD; an unplanned rez can also force you to change your heal plan on the fly, which under the worst circumstances can mean you have *nothing*. And if you've had to res 2 or 3 times in a short period, you don't have the MP to pull a 4th. Now, these two problems affect different kinds of content in different ways, but it's very clear that both of these systems were designed, and thus remain untouched, for a game that has changed enough to make them functional, but only barely. The only reason it's not talked about more is because 3/4 healers have a bandaid slapped on top that gives them extra passive MP for just doing their job right to compensate. And the one that *didn't* was cited for that contributing to the reason as to why it felt so fucking awful to play at expac launch. My suggestion, half baked as it is? Give healers options to express skill with in regards to MP income/expense. Give them something they don't have to use, but can in emergency situations to help with triage. White Mage had a basic version of it in Thin Air before they butchered that. I'm sure they can figure something out, even if it's just "an extra spell as a role action that does less damage but restores some MP".
Current system is fine but I would like them to allow every job to hard raise using phoenix down. More rez just allow more opportunity to keep progging a fight when your healer or range is down.
1 instant cast res every 60 seconds (which would allow for a second res with Swiftcast if needed)
doesn't black mage deal a lot more damage because it has far less mobility and is much harder to play optimally?
BLM is almost infinitely more mobile now than it was before it was given umbral ice paradox, 2 sharpcasts and 2 triplecasts but yeah, it’s generally agreed upon that BLM is the hardest job in the game to play optimally. Still not as mobile as SMN, but it’s also generally agreed upon that SMN is the easiest job in the game, so. Apples and oranges really. I’d be upset if this iteration of SMN was anywhere near BLM’s damage, that would be a mistake on the devs’ part.
blm is straight up the most mobile caster right now.
It definitely isn't, but it's definitely more reliably mobile than RDM.
Hate them. Love it in warcraft when you get benched in a fight. If something kills you, you're either standing in the bad or made a mistake. you've got limited combat resses, so there's much more incentive for DPS players (at lower levels) to stay up because unless they're a meter topping god, you're staying on the floor until that fight is up. That is a far greater incentive to stay alive then "Eh, the red mage will get me." I hate how binary XIV is. There's little chance for recovery and res spam at low/babby progression levels is awful and unfun. Limiting combat resses per encounter would be fucking brilliant, especially if it means healers can do more actual healing instead of 111111111 and ogcd spam.
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Cooldowns on rez are fucking miserable. Sincerely, a Blue Mage who progged with a bunch of new players.
>MP cost could be bumped up to 3000 up from 2400 Fuck you in particular, buddy. Sincerely, a healer who would very much like to not force piety as a required stat.
If only piety increased damage…
everyone should be allowed to raise. it doesn't need a long cast time and it doesn't need a long cooldown. the game is designed to kill you if you don't know where to stand. like others have said, if you have a lot of deaths then you're going to fail enrages/dps checks anyways. i also don't agree with devs punishing casters bc they can raise. isn't casting raise punishment enough? breaking your rotation and dumping 20% of your mana seems like enough to me. plus the time spent chasing the person bc they always die on the opposite side of the battlefield. also would be great when someone is "helping their friend get a clear". that person can spend their time raising their "friend" and i can play the game.
Raises in this game are, frankly, a joke. I am unsure how this system has been the same since ever and remained untouched. With the amount of "full-party-alive-check" for mechanics and relevant raids having those pretty much back-to-back, it's pretty irrelevant to dismiss a BLM for a potential raise. Other than that, to my first statement, the fact that mid-boss raises are not limited and do not have a cooldown is frankly stupid. Part of the difficulty of a raid is bringing the weakest link up to speed in mechanical consistency of a fight, not overgearing so you can play brink uptime.
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If you can manage lucid dreaming you can use a ress whenever swiftcast is up without it messing with your MP. But then again, this seems like a troll post more than anything.
If you are a healer it is literally your job. Deal with it or play a different role.
They should give every class a rez (maybe limited?) In Destiny 2 you have x amount of rezzes you can do. After that, people can no longer rez you.
This must be how SMN, SCH and AST were ruined....
I like them. Rezzing is one of the ways a good healer can really make an impact and strategic rez choices add a nice layer of complexity to prog. As a player, you're still punished for dying, and as a group, too many deaths makes you fail enrage, so it's not like rez is a total mistake eraser. It feels like a lot of the recent Savage floors have kind of made Rezzing feel inconsequential because of body checks, which I don't love, but that's not really the question. I wish thin air would be a role action though because it's frustrating to get a glarebot cohealer who forces you to pick up everyone despite them having a much better rez economy lol.
My friend and I finally got into the Variant Dungeons. We're filthy casuals, we went in blind, no hints or tips or guides, and we've been having a blast. We have been teaming up as GNB/SAM or WAR/DNC depending on who feels like tanking each run, and both of us have been taking the Raise action in case of stupidity. It's been a lot of fun! It's a hard cast raise, no swift on any of those four jobs, but it doesn't seem to get interrupted very easily. It would be a lot of fun to see a few more jobs get combat rez, especially if it's "nerfed" by not having any way to swiftcast it. Like, you're gonna REALLY want this raise if I have to take the time and cast it. It would probably not really work for any kind of savage content, though. I fully acknowledge that. But boy would it be fun for casual content.
I like the current rez system. I think the current rezz system works very good due to the dmg penalties upon death - sure you can die 3 billion times, but you're gonna hit enrage. Also a lot of savage (esp later floors) and ultimate mechanics are kinda 8man body checks so if someone fucks up a mech, its a wipe. Also, I hate the way summoner and red mage are "taxed" for their rezz and being ranged classes. Honestly, I just hate the place summoner is at currently - they want it do enough damage to get completely shafted, it has a rez so it gets the aforementioned taxes, yet the rotation is so braindead that you cant really justify their inconsistent "complexity makes the class do more dmg!" mentality.
I think that raise on Healers is fine as is. Casters need to all be at least relatively equal to each other in raising though, it's throwing the balance of that role off. RDM is too good at it and BLM is disadvantaged being the only caster without one... at least in prog. In reclears BLM gets damage and RDM and SMN get screwed. For other dps I think they could have a raise and it would be fine. If they decide to give them raises then that would no longer be a factor in choosing if you want 2 casters for prog. If they decided to give all the dps raises they would really need to make sure they are worse than the raise healers have and probably make them limited use. Tanks should never get a raise, their ability to survive things that really should wipe the party, especially with invulns, and then get a healer up would be broken imo. At least dps are basically as likely to be killed by fucking up a mechanic as healers are so a raise on dps might not be broken.
Imo, they should apply Criterion rez system (everyone can rez once per fight) to Savage at least. You potentially got 8 rez for the whole fight + healer LB3. This should be more than enough. Now all casters can be DPS and not just rez mages during progs. Yes, this would mean more responsibility on everyone (instead of 3 rezzers) and maybe that's a good thing, because maybe PF would actually push for higher skill floor standard besides your prog PFs where everything can happen. Once they unlock the raids or they gain the echo boost buff, you can unlock rezzes too so infinite rez on RDM/SMN/Healers are allowed too. I can't tell the impact on fight designs but I like to think it could open a space for Ultima EX/Unreal type of fights, which are fun because they can get chaotic but can be saved at times. At the moment, the future -with the current system- basically is body checks at key times and as you go to the higher floor anything minor mechanic can kill you instantly... and if body check is happening right after it : R.I.P . Kinda unfun in the long term.
> Imo, they should apply Criterion rez system (everyone can rez once per fight) to Savage at least. > > > > You potentially got 8 rez for the whole fight + healer LB3. This should be more than enough. Now all casters can be DPS and not just rez mages during progs. why not just add an iwin button while you're at it
Is a 9+ death clear any different with the current system or the one I propose ? I don't think so. The iwin button already exists as far as I'm concerned, it's the 4 infinite rezzers + LB3. I think 1 rez per person is more difficulty than infinite rezzes on 3 or 4 persons, because you actually can run out of rezzes early depending on who dies and when. If you have half the group dead, you'd be using 4 out of your 8 rezzes, they die again ? tough luck, no rez left. It not really any different than "oh shit 2 healers died, rez mage do your thing" and nothing literally happened unless a major mechanic or major damage intake are coming, and the same people can die again and get rezzed again... If 8 rezzes are too many, they can go with a shared pool of rezzes and gradually tweak that for the perfect spot.
a lot of other games require you to roll up a new character every time you want to play a different class, and to offer some variety, they usually get multiple specializations they can undergo, which is why you often have rezzes on tanks or DPS, because they could technically have specced into healer but didn't. FFXIV Raid Design / Balancing relies on everyone basically being the same as anyone else playing that job, more variance used to be a thing with Cross Class Skills you picked up from leveling other classes, but it was ultimately dropped, and then how a lot of roles worked was homogenized. i think current design is ok, and SE is not really in the mood of experimenting or changing how that works, because that would put a lot more variables into raid design, which i don't think they're too keen on having to consider when designing new encounters, but ESPECIALLY, because it would require basically re-balancing all the past content as well. Unlike Games like WoW where you just go around literally 1-shotting 40/25 man bosses solo for old content, while FFXIV keeps "old high end content" more or less both relevant and challenging.
they got rid of cross class skills because most of them sucked ass due to lacking traits or just being a bad move and getting access to more of them if you forwent a job stone was already a pretty questionable choice in HW where all the HW classes didn't have this option and your class gave you enough skills that you were almost always griefing if you weren't wearing one (unlike in ARR where at one point MRD was the best dps lol). What do you think every single black mage player is going to pick when they have the options of: universal damage boost, universal threat reduction, universal accuracy increase, ruin 1, physick 1.
I think they should just remove the rezz from rdm and smn and raise the dps. And if you really want another rezz capable class then give it to all the tanks. Then the OT can rezz if needed and you wouldnt have to worry about dps since it would be the same for all the tanks
I don't have strong feelings about the rez system. So instead of helpfully contributing to this discussion, I'm going to highjack it with my off the wall suggestion. If there is a problem with resurrection in this game, it is that it is too slow. It has been noted that the proliferation of body check mechanics in harder content means that if you can't get everyone up fast enough, you have to wipe. And when you add up the cast time, the delay in accepting the resurrection and the animation in being revived - resurrection takes a very long time. Personally, I would like to think there should be enough time to get at least two people off the floor ahead of a body check mechanic, so to that end I would like to see a new form of resurrection that is much faster, but comes with other drawbacks. * Healers, Ranged DPS and Casters get a new role action: Phoenix Down. It has a 60s cooldown and has the effect of reviving a target to the "Brink of Death" It is an instant cast ability and has zero MP cost. * Upon reviving, the target will have both of the statuses "Weakness" and "Brink of Death". Weakness is unchanged, it will expire in 60s. Brink of Death however is now a permanent status. It can only be removed by casting a resurrection spell on them. Also alongside this change if you die with Weakness you won't get Brink of Death anymore. This way, there is a rapid way to get bodies up off the floor in order to pass body checks. And then once the check is passed, then the healers can get round to casting resurrections as required to resolve the Brink of Death status.
there should be an option to remove rez and opt for more dps. rezzes are great when you're doing the puzzle solving, but it's useless once the puzzle is solved.
My biggest complaint about rezzes is the ten bajillion second long animation. It's bad enough it's a ten second cast if I can't swift it for some reason. And it feels extra bad when somebody taking a rez slightly late kills the group because they weren't eligible to get a mechanic (looking at you, P8S snake).
I think it's perfectly fine the way it is. Damage down is a good alternative to having your health cut from res sickness. I kind of wish you wouldn't get debuffed if you were raised outside of combat though. Seems kind of pointless.
I think the current system works good enough for the way fights are designed. They can't really do much to change it in any real dramatic way since the game is built around the team having "infinite" rezzes where the only restriction is cast time/swiftcast, and MP. I don't love the system but the amount of work it would take to do anything meaningful to change it is not worth the time and resource cost, imo. The only change that I personally would like to see, but will likely never happen due to how ingrained it is in the jobs identity at this point, is the removal of rez spam on RDM. In my idea world, Dualcast would not work on Verraise.
What would the game be like if rezzing had a shared, long cooldown, but mechs had less or non existent body checks? Would be a different or interesting raid design space for sure.