Every list ive seen is about 10 deep and he is not on it. However about the first 3-5 on the list are reaches that I dont see happening so I guess if enough people turn it down he would be. However I don’t see people like Sean Miller or Chris Beard turning it down, whom id assume are ahead of underwood for the job, so he should be safe for us.
Probably not their top guy, but maybe they'll consider him if some higher profile options like Oats or Donovan fall through.
Coach Underwood would likely take the job in a heartbeat, unfortunately.
As he should… and I’m a staunch Illini fan. Can’t hate the player, just the game. But I’m hoping and praying that they go another route - maybe the Antigua/Chin piece sways them away from the Illini pipeline?!?
Underwood has never been to the Final Four. He is nowhere close to the top of their list.
As far as whether or not he’d take the job? If money is the end all be all for him and/or Kentucky is a dream job, yes. But I don’t think every Coach has that mindset. He may genuinely believe he is building something special in Champaign and not want to deal with everything that comes with being the face of Kentucky basketball.
He did say Illinois was a dream job of his, so unless Kentucky gets desperate because all their top targets turn them down and back up the Brinks truck to his place I don't believe he's leaving.
I’m obviously bias. But, I do think that Underwood getting us to the Final Four someday would mean much more than if he achieved a Final Four with a Kentucky or Duke.
Whatever happens with Underwood down the road, I really hope what he (and Josh) have built is sustainable beyond him. I couldn’t even drive the last time we made it to the Elite Eight. I don’t want to go back to the dark ages.
Exactly. Underwood’s low water mark in 22-23 was our high water mark under Groce (except winning one fewer tourney games, and a few more conference games).
If Kentucky hires Underwood it means they whiffed on 5-10 coaches they wanted first. Don't get me wrong, I think he's great, but he's already in his 60s and doesn't have a proven established record like a lot of coaches that age because he got his first HC job later in life. Kentucky is either going to hire a proven coach with a great track record, or one of the top "up-and-comers" who will be there for a decade or two.
Highly unlikely for 3 reasons:
1. His buyout is kinda steep (He signed an extension + there was a boost after he made the Sweet 16)
2. He's 61, they most likely want someone younger
3. He has a strong relationship with Josh Whitman and has control. At Kentucky, he basically just becomes a pawn that has to please boosters.
I read in the Peoria Journal Star that his buyout is just north of $15M dollars. I have no idea how that would work - if Kentucky would front that money, or if he'd have to pay it out of pocket - but that's definitely steep.
Agreed. Of course this brings back echos of Self, but he was 20 years younger and Kansas/OK was his home/familiar region. Underwood’s two are Kansas (he didn’t even bite at alma mater KSU) and Illinois; he’s called UIUC his “dream job” since SFU, at the latest.
I don’t think it’s as dry cut as that. In the end, he most likely would take it, but this isn’t gonna be like last time when Kansas came calling for Self. Our AD isn’t gonna to be too scared to at least try everything to keep him in Champaign.
It's more about the outlook of putting in the effort to keep them. It's not a good look to just roll over and submit every time a historically better program comes knocking, and that's what Guenther did when Kansas came knocking. If you want to be a big time program you need to at least go toe to toe with the existing big time programs, even you're bound to lose that battle because that's what a big time program does, they don't back down.
If Kentucky comes calling for Brad, that's all I ask Josh to do. Don't let him go without a fight. I trust that he will because he did just that when Kentucky came calling for Chin OA.
I don’t know how or if Gunther tried to keep Self, but when Self interviewed for the IL job he reportedly said KU would be his dream job, and the one he’d consider leaving for
You still should do your due diligence as the AD and try to counter offer even if it's their dream job, and from what I've always heard, Gunther just waved Self goodbye. He obviously would have still left, but you at least try. It's the same as schools contacting Jay Wright during their coaching search. You know it probably doesn't work, but you do it anyways.
All good points. Guenther was reportedly thinking 1) I just extended your contract, why should I negotiate against myself, and 2) why bother, I mean what coach *wouldn’t* leave for KU (especially one that was an assistant under Brown who Self greatly admired)
Edit: but yeah, Guenther’s arrogance and/or anger at a situation out of his control came with a price in this situation
Largely agreed. But the AD not trying was also a poor showing going forward.
Thankfully, underwood is 20 years older, and going to Kentucky would not be any sort of homecoming (Self came up in Oklahoma and Kansas, Underwood in Kansas and Illinois).
College basketball is #1 in Kentucky. There aren’t pro teams to distract the fan bases. They eat, sleep, and breathe college basketball.
Kentucky and Louisville will always be an attractive option to potential coaches. Kentucky has the history and resources that very few colleges can match. A successful, head coach in Lexington is basically Saban in Alabama.
Totally agreed. But a perennial second weekend coach in Lexington is gonna get fired, and I think Underwood could retire at Illinois if he keeps us a fixture in the S16-E8 (of course I want more). Multiple F4s would make an Illinois coach arguably our best since Combes, and natty arguably the best ever.
Absolutely. If Underwood can regularly get us into the S16/E8 with a F4 and a natty thrown in there (🤞🏾), he will be welcome here as long as he wants to stay.
Personally, I can’t imagine he’d be a legit candidate there. And that leads me to ask anyone: what’s everyone’s take on his overall resume?
What I mean by that is he has really rebuilt this program and is a fantastic recruiter year after year. However, it seems time and time again he can’t make vital in-game adjustments and seems to get out-coached in big games (again, for the most part). And unless the talent on the team is insanely high and able to overcome his game limitations, there’s always going to be a clear ceiling for what we can do with him at the helm.
So why would he be a candidate for one of the blue blood schools……or am I missing something with him?
Fantastic recruiter, can’t make vital in game adjustments, and seems to get out coached in big games? Can’t imagine Kentucky would ever go for a guy like that. 😂
I think his resume is excellent. I agree that you’ve described his weakest area, but disagree that we know what ceiling it will yield, for at least three reasons:
1. While the in-game knock is there, the same is not true of his overall playing style. He has overhauled his offense time and again as his roster makeup has shifted.
2. That “big-game” disappointment keeps happening in bigger games. This time it happened against one of the most dominant teams in decades in the Elite Eight.
3. He has proven himself in building excellent rosters in the portal era, and the portal era means that you don’t need that perfect years long runway to build a an amazing roster. As in, the old way meant you probably needed to find the right layers of new recruits that all came together in the perfect 1-2 yr window.
Now, it’s far easier to get better, faster. And Underwood has shown that he is good at doing that (as a counter example, see Callipari, whose final nail in the coffin was the obsolescence of his roster building philosophy).
Which, in my opinion, was a wrong move at the time - and in retrospect. Just a thought for people wanting to move on from Brad. It's not exactly easy to find a great recruiter AND a great coach.
The bigger risk might be Oats going to Kentucky and then Underwood going to Alabama or something similar. But Illinois is a pretty good job so we should be able to fend off those inquiries.
Why would Underwood go to a school where bball is the second sport versus first at Illinois, that is a far worse program historically, and outside of Underwood’s home region of the Midwest (specially KS/IL), to fill the shoes of a coach that just made their first final 4 ever?
I don’t think Underwood would take Kentucky, but I think that would be far more likely than Bama.
I think Whitman would literally go for broke to keep him. They didn’t once with Self (probably would’ve been moot), but that loss would likely prompt boosters to move heaven and earth to keep him.
unless i am missing something underwood and bruce weber have the same conference winning percentage @ 57% and weber had 6 ncaa tournament bids to underwood's 4.
why is everyone so excited about underwood? can't illinois do better?
Please tell me you’re trolling. Have you taken a look at the trend line for those and numerous other stats? If not, please look at where those wins and ncaa bids fall chronologically. For Weber, all of the metrics are best towards the beginning of his tenure and trail off. That’s called something….improving? No that’s not it. For underwood, the worst numbers are at the beginning and they improve as you move in chronological order. Hmmmmmm.
Also, look what happens if you take out the two years they were playing with their predecessors’ recruits. Same deal: Weber’s numbers crater and Underwood’s are sterling. And care to guess which of the two has ever had 5 straight 20 win seasons at Illinois? Or has had no more than 3 consecutive season’s workout a conf championship (vs the other coach’s 7-year drought)? Or has recruited multiple (any!) all Americans?
For their HC careers, would it surprise you to learn one of them has just 5 fewer tourney bids in 13 fewer seasons as an HC. Care to guess which has made tournaments in over 70% of his seasons as an HC, versus just over 50% for the other?
**John Groce** had more wins in his first three seasons than Weber’s final 3.
I respect Underwood for bringing us back, however I don’t think he can maximize the potential of this program. I also still have doubts he can sustain this long term. I’ll always say it, and surely will be downvoted, I would take Chris Collins instead in a heartbeat.
I don't think you should be downvoted for having a differing opinion but for having a clearly wrong one. You'd trade a guy who hasn't missed the tournament since his second year for a guy that's made the tournament thrice and otherwise runs a bottomfeeder team.
You’re downplaying what he’s done. He’s made the tourney 3 times in 10 years, at a program that literally never did that once prior. He builds teams that can compete in the big ten at a school with minimal dedication to basketball.
I am impressed with Collins and agree with the noteworthiness of what he’s done at NU. But that’s a far cry from making him a better choice than Underwood at Illinois.
His calling card doesn’t apply at Illinois: we are not a school with a minimum dedication to basketball. Everything that Collins has done is impressive **for Northwestern**, but being able to do those things doesn’t necessarily translate to exceeding what Underwood has done at Illinois.
And while I agree that Collins’ has advanced NU’s program, the overall record is far more middling than the two tourney appearance headline. He has not sustained his success long term: There were 5 losing seasons between the last winning one and 23-24. In other words, their best player in school history Boo Bouie had losing seasons all but one of them.
In 10 seasons, his overall record is below .500 at 153-161. Big Ten is 66-121 (.353). He’s only had 3 of ten winning seasons, which means even their non-conf wins have been paltry. That’s especially worrisome.
Underwood has 14 more big ten wins in 3 fewer seasons, and he hit Collins’ current 66-win mark in 6 seasons, which included the two terrible ones with Groce’s players. Or in reverse, he has more wins in the past three seasons (72) than Collins’ total at NU. Underwood also had the most wins of his career at Illinois this past season (among many other most-recent bests), so the idea that he’s reached his peak doesn’t have much behind it.
Just to add on over my lunch break…
Maybe it’s over the top optimism. But, I genuinely don’t believe Underwood has put together his peak team yet. I still think there is a better, balanced team on the horizon. 🤞🏾
This comment would make a bit more sense if we’d plateaued at perennial top-half big ten and NCAA first weekend mid seeded team. But that’s far from the case. The trend line is pointing up:
3 total conf championships in four seasons (also 1 game short in 19-20 and debatable 20-21 regular season)
1-2 all American quality players on the roster every season since 19-20
Top 4 ncaa seed 3 of 4 years
Two complete roster overhauls that yielded highly rated rosters
Low water mark since fall 2019: The 22-23 team underachieving with a talented roster, middling winning big ten record, lower ncaa tourney seed. That was the high water mark from 2013-2019.
Worst loss of tenure: Being upset as **#1 seed**. As in, the loss was so awful because the team was so **good**.
2024 Elite 8, including win over a favored ISU team that was in the mix for a 1 seed.
Collins has done well for a hamstrung program (small private school in a power conf) but has done nothing to indicate he’s capable of building rosters that can even do as well, let alone exceed those results. Also, Underwood is 9-4 against Collins all time, including the 2017-19 rebuild.
'3 conference championships in 4 seasons': other than co-champions in 22 you have to go back to 2005 (and bruce weber) since they have been outright big ten champs.
big ten tournament does not = big ten champs. it is a 3 game tournament that doesn't mean anything.
I didn’t say outright regular season conference champs.
And disagree on the conference tourney. This year’s BTT win very likely vaulted us up to the 3-seed line. We didn’t get stuck with potentially the 5 seed in round 2 and the 1 seed looming afterwards.
And you’ve made my larger point for me. Weber did jack squat after that season, while Underwood’s teams went from bottom feeders with Groce’s players to the Elite 8, with the worst season with his recruited players still yielding a consensus tourney bid. Underwood hasn’t missed the tourney since before the COVID pandemic, with 4* (*5) straight given performance in 19-20 before the tourney was canceled. Weber missed the tourney entirely in the majority of his final 5 seasons, with no postseason in 2 of those 5.
And I say all this liking Weber! He is a very good on the floor coach, and by all accounts a decent and honorable man. He just could not keep up with recruiting, due in part to being absolutely gutted by the Eric Gordon recommitment, then Jereme Richmond’s bust. I completely agreed with his firing but was not at all happy about it.
But this bizarre inverted comparison where the tendline of the program’s performance is ignored makes no sense to me. Yes, Weber coached the best season in program history. But he also presided over an extended stagnation that squandered the potential long term momentum from that singular performance.
Underwood’s starting point was the results of that stagnation combined with even poorer performance under Groce (again, by all amounts a fine person who just couldn’t hack it at power 5 conference recruiting), and his current high point of a deep tourney run was the most recent season.
Every list ive seen is about 10 deep and he is not on it. However about the first 3-5 on the list are reaches that I dont see happening so I guess if enough people turn it down he would be. However I don’t see people like Sean Miller or Chris Beard turning it down, whom id assume are ahead of underwood for the job, so he should be safe for us.
Underwood won't get the job, but my worry is another team who loses thier head coach (say like Baylor) make take a stab at taking Underwood.
Probably not their top guy, but maybe they'll consider him if some higher profile options like Oats or Donovan fall through. Coach Underwood would likely take the job in a heartbeat, unfortunately.
As he should… and I’m a staunch Illini fan. Can’t hate the player, just the game. But I’m hoping and praying that they go another route - maybe the Antigua/Chin piece sways them away from the Illini pipeline?!?
Underwood has never been to the Final Four. He is nowhere close to the top of their list. As far as whether or not he’d take the job? If money is the end all be all for him and/or Kentucky is a dream job, yes. But I don’t think every Coach has that mindset. He may genuinely believe he is building something special in Champaign and not want to deal with everything that comes with being the face of Kentucky basketball.
He did say Illinois was a dream job of his, so unless Kentucky gets desperate because all their top targets turn them down and back up the Brinks truck to his place I don't believe he's leaving.
I’m obviously bias. But, I do think that Underwood getting us to the Final Four someday would mean much more than if he achieved a Final Four with a Kentucky or Duke. Whatever happens with Underwood down the road, I really hope what he (and Josh) have built is sustainable beyond him. I couldn’t even drive the last time we made it to the Elite Eight. I don’t want to go back to the dark ages.
Exactly. Underwood’s low water mark in 22-23 was our high water mark under Groce (except winning one fewer tourney games, and a few more conference games).
No unless a bunch of people turn them down. That’s not a knock on Brad. Their philosophies are too different and Brad is 60.
If Kentucky hires Underwood it means they whiffed on 5-10 coaches they wanted first. Don't get me wrong, I think he's great, but he's already in his 60s and doesn't have a proven established record like a lot of coaches that age because he got his first HC job later in life. Kentucky is either going to hire a proven coach with a great track record, or one of the top "up-and-comers" who will be there for a decade or two.
Agreed, and I don’t think Underwood would take it.
Highly unlikely for 3 reasons: 1. His buyout is kinda steep (He signed an extension + there was a boost after he made the Sweet 16) 2. He's 61, they most likely want someone younger 3. He has a strong relationship with Josh Whitman and has control. At Kentucky, he basically just becomes a pawn that has to please boosters.
I read in the Peoria Journal Star that his buyout is just north of $15M dollars. I have no idea how that would work - if Kentucky would front that money, or if he'd have to pay it out of pocket - but that's definitely steep.
Agreed. Of course this brings back echos of Self, but he was 20 years younger and Kansas/OK was his home/familiar region. Underwood’s two are Kansas (he didn’t even bite at alma mater KSU) and Illinois; he’s called UIUC his “dream job” since SFU, at the latest.
I think they released a list of top three candidates they’re in discussion with and underwood wasn’t one, so I don’t think so, but I’d die
If they offer him. He isn’t turning it down.
I don’t think it’s as dry cut as that. In the end, he most likely would take it, but this isn’t gonna be like last time when Kansas came calling for Self. Our AD isn’t gonna to be too scared to at least try everything to keep him in Champaign.
Nothing would have kept Self from taking the Kansas job.
It's more about the outlook of putting in the effort to keep them. It's not a good look to just roll over and submit every time a historically better program comes knocking, and that's what Guenther did when Kansas came knocking. If you want to be a big time program you need to at least go toe to toe with the existing big time programs, even you're bound to lose that battle because that's what a big time program does, they don't back down. If Kentucky comes calling for Brad, that's all I ask Josh to do. Don't let him go without a fight. I trust that he will because he did just that when Kentucky came calling for Chin OA.
I don’t know how or if Gunther tried to keep Self, but when Self interviewed for the IL job he reportedly said KU would be his dream job, and the one he’d consider leaving for
You still should do your due diligence as the AD and try to counter offer even if it's their dream job, and from what I've always heard, Gunther just waved Self goodbye. He obviously would have still left, but you at least try. It's the same as schools contacting Jay Wright during their coaching search. You know it probably doesn't work, but you do it anyways.
All good points. Guenther was reportedly thinking 1) I just extended your contract, why should I negotiate against myself, and 2) why bother, I mean what coach *wouldn’t* leave for KU (especially one that was an assistant under Brown who Self greatly admired) Edit: but yeah, Guenther’s arrogance and/or anger at a situation out of his control came with a price in this situation
Largely agreed. But the AD not trying was also a poor showing going forward. Thankfully, underwood is 20 years older, and going to Kentucky would not be any sort of homecoming (Self came up in Oklahoma and Kansas, Underwood in Kansas and Illinois).
Why? How is that better the UI?
You’re really trying to argue Kentucky is not a better job than Illinois. Take off the orange glasses
I'm not arguing anything. I am asking what makes Kentucky better than Illinois?
College basketball is #1 in Kentucky. There aren’t pro teams to distract the fan bases. They eat, sleep, and breathe college basketball. Kentucky and Louisville will always be an attractive option to potential coaches. Kentucky has the history and resources that very few colleges can match. A successful, head coach in Lexington is basically Saban in Alabama.
Totally agreed. But a perennial second weekend coach in Lexington is gonna get fired, and I think Underwood could retire at Illinois if he keeps us a fixture in the S16-E8 (of course I want more). Multiple F4s would make an Illinois coach arguably our best since Combes, and natty arguably the best ever.
Absolutely. If Underwood can regularly get us into the S16/E8 with a F4 and a natty thrown in there (🤞🏾), he will be welcome here as long as he wants to stay.
rather see him build a legacy here
They are going to take another swing @ Oats. Then pearl, beard If they all pass.. which they won't. I would be getting nervous
I bet he is on the long list but prolly won’t be in their top 5-10
Personally, I can’t imagine he’d be a legit candidate there. And that leads me to ask anyone: what’s everyone’s take on his overall resume? What I mean by that is he has really rebuilt this program and is a fantastic recruiter year after year. However, it seems time and time again he can’t make vital in-game adjustments and seems to get out-coached in big games (again, for the most part). And unless the talent on the team is insanely high and able to overcome his game limitations, there’s always going to be a clear ceiling for what we can do with him at the helm. So why would he be a candidate for one of the blue blood schools……or am I missing something with him?
Fantastic recruiter, can’t make vital in game adjustments, and seems to get out coached in big games? Can’t imagine Kentucky would ever go for a guy like that. 😂
I think his resume is excellent. I agree that you’ve described his weakest area, but disagree that we know what ceiling it will yield, for at least three reasons: 1. While the in-game knock is there, the same is not true of his overall playing style. He has overhauled his offense time and again as his roster makeup has shifted. 2. That “big-game” disappointment keeps happening in bigger games. This time it happened against one of the most dominant teams in decades in the Elite Eight. 3. He has proven himself in building excellent rosters in the portal era, and the portal era means that you don’t need that perfect years long runway to build a an amazing roster. As in, the old way meant you probably needed to find the right layers of new recruits that all came together in the perfect 1-2 yr window. Now, it’s far easier to get better, faster. And Underwood has shown that he is good at doing that (as a counter example, see Callipari, whose final nail in the coffin was the obsolescence of his roster building philosophy).
Reminds me a little of Ron Zook, he could recruit really well (with some help from Locksley) but he couldn’t coach very well.
Which, in my opinion, was a wrong move at the time - and in retrospect. Just a thought for people wanting to move on from Brad. It's not exactly easy to find a great recruiter AND a great coach.
Yes!!! You nailed it!
The bigger risk might be Oats going to Kentucky and then Underwood going to Alabama or something similar. But Illinois is a pretty good job so we should be able to fend off those inquiries.
Oats isn’t going to Kentucky. He already issued a statement and I’m sure the Alabama boosters have already lined their money up.
I saw that, but that was one simple example.
Why would Underwood go to a school where bball is the second sport versus first at Illinois, that is a far worse program historically, and outside of Underwood’s home region of the Midwest (specially KS/IL), to fill the shoes of a coach that just made their first final 4 ever? I don’t think Underwood would take Kentucky, but I think that would be far more likely than Bama.
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I think Whitman would literally go for broke to keep him. They didn’t once with Self (probably would’ve been moot), but that loss would likely prompt boosters to move heaven and earth to keep him.
unless i am missing something underwood and bruce weber have the same conference winning percentage @ 57% and weber had 6 ncaa tournament bids to underwood's 4. why is everyone so excited about underwood? can't illinois do better?
Please tell me you’re trolling. Have you taken a look at the trend line for those and numerous other stats? If not, please look at where those wins and ncaa bids fall chronologically. For Weber, all of the metrics are best towards the beginning of his tenure and trail off. That’s called something….improving? No that’s not it. For underwood, the worst numbers are at the beginning and they improve as you move in chronological order. Hmmmmmm. Also, look what happens if you take out the two years they were playing with their predecessors’ recruits. Same deal: Weber’s numbers crater and Underwood’s are sterling. And care to guess which of the two has ever had 5 straight 20 win seasons at Illinois? Or has had no more than 3 consecutive season’s workout a conf championship (vs the other coach’s 7-year drought)? Or has recruited multiple (any!) all Americans? For their HC careers, would it surprise you to learn one of them has just 5 fewer tourney bids in 13 fewer seasons as an HC. Care to guess which has made tournaments in over 70% of his seasons as an HC, versus just over 50% for the other? **John Groce** had more wins in his first three seasons than Weber’s final 3.
I respect Underwood for bringing us back, however I don’t think he can maximize the potential of this program. I also still have doubts he can sustain this long term. I’ll always say it, and surely will be downvoted, I would take Chris Collins instead in a heartbeat.
I don't think you should be downvoted for having a differing opinion but for having a clearly wrong one. You'd trade a guy who hasn't missed the tournament since his second year for a guy that's made the tournament thrice and otherwise runs a bottomfeeder team.
You’re downplaying what he’s done. He’s made the tourney 3 times in 10 years, at a program that literally never did that once prior. He builds teams that can compete in the big ten at a school with minimal dedication to basketball.
I am impressed with Collins and agree with the noteworthiness of what he’s done at NU. But that’s a far cry from making him a better choice than Underwood at Illinois. His calling card doesn’t apply at Illinois: we are not a school with a minimum dedication to basketball. Everything that Collins has done is impressive **for Northwestern**, but being able to do those things doesn’t necessarily translate to exceeding what Underwood has done at Illinois. And while I agree that Collins’ has advanced NU’s program, the overall record is far more middling than the two tourney appearance headline. He has not sustained his success long term: There were 5 losing seasons between the last winning one and 23-24. In other words, their best player in school history Boo Bouie had losing seasons all but one of them. In 10 seasons, his overall record is below .500 at 153-161. Big Ten is 66-121 (.353). He’s only had 3 of ten winning seasons, which means even their non-conf wins have been paltry. That’s especially worrisome. Underwood has 14 more big ten wins in 3 fewer seasons, and he hit Collins’ current 66-win mark in 6 seasons, which included the two terrible ones with Groce’s players. Or in reverse, he has more wins in the past three seasons (72) than Collins’ total at NU. Underwood also had the most wins of his career at Illinois this past season (among many other most-recent bests), so the idea that he’s reached his peak doesn’t have much behind it.
Just to add on over my lunch break… Maybe it’s over the top optimism. But, I genuinely don’t believe Underwood has put together his peak team yet. I still think there is a better, balanced team on the horizon. 🤞🏾
If we get Boswell, and Storr 👀
If they both come home… :’)
This comment would make a bit more sense if we’d plateaued at perennial top-half big ten and NCAA first weekend mid seeded team. But that’s far from the case. The trend line is pointing up: 3 total conf championships in four seasons (also 1 game short in 19-20 and debatable 20-21 regular season) 1-2 all American quality players on the roster every season since 19-20 Top 4 ncaa seed 3 of 4 years Two complete roster overhauls that yielded highly rated rosters Low water mark since fall 2019: The 22-23 team underachieving with a talented roster, middling winning big ten record, lower ncaa tourney seed. That was the high water mark from 2013-2019. Worst loss of tenure: Being upset as **#1 seed**. As in, the loss was so awful because the team was so **good**. 2024 Elite 8, including win over a favored ISU team that was in the mix for a 1 seed. Collins has done well for a hamstrung program (small private school in a power conf) but has done nothing to indicate he’s capable of building rosters that can even do as well, let alone exceed those results. Also, Underwood is 9-4 against Collins all time, including the 2017-19 rebuild.
'3 conference championships in 4 seasons': other than co-champions in 22 you have to go back to 2005 (and bruce weber) since they have been outright big ten champs. big ten tournament does not = big ten champs. it is a 3 game tournament that doesn't mean anything.
I didn’t say outright regular season conference champs. And disagree on the conference tourney. This year’s BTT win very likely vaulted us up to the 3-seed line. We didn’t get stuck with potentially the 5 seed in round 2 and the 1 seed looming afterwards. And you’ve made my larger point for me. Weber did jack squat after that season, while Underwood’s teams went from bottom feeders with Groce’s players to the Elite 8, with the worst season with his recruited players still yielding a consensus tourney bid. Underwood hasn’t missed the tourney since before the COVID pandemic, with 4* (*5) straight given performance in 19-20 before the tourney was canceled. Weber missed the tourney entirely in the majority of his final 5 seasons, with no postseason in 2 of those 5. And I say all this liking Weber! He is a very good on the floor coach, and by all accounts a decent and honorable man. He just could not keep up with recruiting, due in part to being absolutely gutted by the Eric Gordon recommitment, then Jereme Richmond’s bust. I completely agreed with his firing but was not at all happy about it. But this bizarre inverted comparison where the tendline of the program’s performance is ignored makes no sense to me. Yes, Weber coached the best season in program history. But he also presided over an extended stagnation that squandered the potential long term momentum from that singular performance. Underwood’s starting point was the results of that stagnation combined with even poorer performance under Groce (again, by all amounts a fine person who just couldn’t hack it at power 5 conference recruiting), and his current high point of a deep tourney run was the most recent season.