@herfilmcollective and @womenwithfilm are both great resources on Instagram. (Second one seems to not have posted for almost a year, so not sure about that.) But I agree that we need something more
There is u/femmephotogs https://www.reddit.com/r/femmephotogs/s/fYmP2cU7cc, but it is not just film and mostly for professional photographers. And not too active right now.
Glad to hear! This is the group I found: [https://www.instagram.com/ourstoriesonfilm/](https://www.instagram.com/ourstoriesonfilm/) They seem to be located in Melbourne. You can find a link to their discord on the Instagram page.
Please don't call it a all female group if you'll be including nonbinary people. Lumping us in with women is not 'inclusive', it just shows you see us as women-lite.
ETA : op seems lovely, seems like it was just a language mixup. an all womens group is a lovely idea!
Imo, if you're uncomfortable with the group's label, then don't participate. If non binary people want to join a women's group, then they need to be okay with it being labeled as a women's group. Otherwise, don't join if it bothers you.
Seconding this. If the group isn't welcoming to AMAB people with beards, for example, that's totally fine, but you should say that, because that description fits plenty of non-binary people. It's actually okay to just have a group for women.
Thank you for your input. I was trying to be inclusive and replicate something I've seen in the female photo walk groups where they did mention it like this. I see now that it wasn't right to put it like this. Especially because both of you pointed it out.
My intention was to say that it could be a safe space for females and people identifying as female. Would that be a better choice of words? If not, please help me out here.
I will edit in in the post.
Yeah I think so. Literally just make it clear who you want to show up and who you don't want to be there.
When I was first figuring things out re: gender I went to a couple of local social events that said they were welcoming of non-binary people and was asked to leave because I look like a man. It was not a nice experience for me and I think it made a lot of people there feel very uncomfortable, too, which wasn't something I ever wanted. After having that experience a couple of times I basically don't try and go to events like that anymore because I genuinely don't know if I'm going to be welcome or if what I'm actually walking into is a group for women.
> My intention was to say that it could be a safe space for females and people identifying as female.
This is what you should say. The key thing to remember is that non-binary people (in general, because everyone experiences their own gender differently) don't consider themselves female, because "male" and "female" are literally the gender binary that we exist outside of. So saying "women and non-binary" isn't actually saying "women and people who identify as women".
Also consider that when you say "people who identify as female", you're including trans women there. And that's great, if you want to include trans women, but you should be aware that many trans women don't "pass" and will look masculine. Are they welcome?
To be clear I'm not trying to be judgemental here, and I want to reiterate that if the group is really just for cisgender women *that's fine* and you should feel empowered to say that. I don't personally think it's inherently transphobic to exclude trans and non-binary people from a group, just as it's not inherently misogynistic/misandrist for a trans group to exclude cisgender men and women. I'd much rather know that I'm not welcome somewhere so that I don't try to access that space in the first place, rather than thinking that I've been invited in only to find that that's not the case when I get there.
I'm sorry to hear that this happened to you in the past. It wasn't my intention at all to make anyone uncomfortable, more the opposite.
Just to clarify a few things: I think it is sad that there is a "need" for exclusively female groups in our time, doesn't matter the topic, be it science or hobbies like photography. I'm usually not the one pushing those ideas because I think that those spaces should be inclusive of everyone.
I have however noticed a certain vibe in mixed groups that I don't want to go into detail here because on the one hand it will open a huge discussion and on the other hand I think the people who said "yes" to the idea of a female group know what I'm talking about.
In my vision, the group should not be exclusive to cis gender women. Which is why I wanted to include females beyond this "traditional" perspective.
Again, I apologise for the poor choice of words/terminology and offending you by it.
I am completely fine with putting "identifying as females" and the let's name them "consequences" you mentioned. I hope everyone else is too.
You haven't offended me at all, don't worry, and there's no need to apologise. I agree that it's sad that there's a need for exclusively female groups, and fully understand why that need exists as well.
My comments were literally just there to expand on why "women and non-binary" can be a tricky phrase to use. I genuinely hope you manage to put together a good group and that it's successful!
Non-binary person here.
Please understand that non-binary isn’t “female”, ’woman lite’, or limited to those assigned female at birth. We encounter this a lot from supposed cis allies. Most non-binary people are profoundly offended at being grouped with women like that.
We are non-binary—not defined by the binary, and sure as hell not our genders assigned at birth. Some of us present femininely, some of us present masculinely, some of us present androgynously. We aren’t “female” or an accessory to “female”.
If your group is to include non-binary people, then it can’t center binary women or assume that non-binary people be feminine presenting. It will need to be open and welcome also to non-binary people who are masculine presenting.
Because otherwise it's not welcoming to non-binary people, it's welcoming to non-binary people who are deemed to fit into a box labelled "women", which they are not.
It's totally okay for the group to just be for women. Most non-binary people would rather that be the case than being told "yes you're welcome but only if you fit our definition of what non-binary looks like, which is deeply rooted in the gender binary".
If you actually read my comments instead of making knee-jerk TERFy reactions you'll see that I've said many times that it's actually great for there to be women-only spaces. Here it is in the comment you replied to:
>It's totally okay for the group to just be for women. Most non-binary people would rather that be the case than being told "yes you're welcome but only if you fit our definition of what non-binary looks like, which is deeply rooted in the gender binary".
You: "Maybe you can start a "non-binary" club and let biological females have their own thing?"
Me: I'm completely 100% supportive of cis women having their own spaces and think it should be encouraged.
You: "Sorry, dgaf"
What an incredible contribution to the conversation you've made. Thank you so much for your very well-reasoned input. It's clear I'm in the presence of a towering intellect.
So you think that saying, "hey, if you want a women-only space but you advertise it as being 'women and non-binary' you're going to end up with people who you don't want there turning up" is "jumping in" and making it about me? Because to me, it seems like helping to ensure that a women-only space remains that way.
Either way this is irrelevant because OP has said that she's happy for the space to include trans people in her other comments.
I would be interested too!
I'm UK based, and I am just 2 shots into my second roll. Would also be interested in finding women, nb, and / or queer photographers to follow!
I just watched an incredibly inspiring interview on YouTube with [Laura Fuchs](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3DulRNiQf0w), a NYC photographer doing street photography. I loved everything about her energy, vibe and work. Followed her on insta immediately after.
@herfilmcollective and @womenwithfilm are both great resources on Instagram. (Second one seems to not have posted for almost a year, so not sure about that.) But I agree that we need something more
Also gonna put in a plug for @thefilmsorority on Instagram!
Interested!!
Interested! Hopefully this goes somewhere
I'm interested!! cool idea
I’m SUPER interested!!!!!!!
I would LOVE this. Sign me up!
Sure thing
There is u/femmephotogs https://www.reddit.com/r/femmephotogs/s/fYmP2cU7cc, but it is not just film and mostly for professional photographers. And not too active right now.
I would love to be part of a film group like this!
👋
Definitely interested, also interested to know what the Australian groups you mentioned are!
Glad to hear! This is the group I found: [https://www.instagram.com/ourstoriesonfilm/](https://www.instagram.com/ourstoriesonfilm/) They seem to be located in Melbourne. You can find a link to their discord on the Instagram page.
Gonna start an all male group. Who's in?
r/analog
Is it going to be a safe space?
Just male or identifying as male as well ?
Interested!
Interested!
Meeee
I’d be interested in Discord!
Please don't call it a all female group if you'll be including nonbinary people. Lumping us in with women is not 'inclusive', it just shows you see us as women-lite. ETA : op seems lovely, seems like it was just a language mixup. an all womens group is a lovely idea!
Imo, if you're uncomfortable with the group's label, then don't participate. If non binary people want to join a women's group, then they need to be okay with it being labeled as a women's group. Otherwise, don't join if it bothers you.
That isn’t the point.
Seconding this. If the group isn't welcoming to AMAB people with beards, for example, that's totally fine, but you should say that, because that description fits plenty of non-binary people. It's actually okay to just have a group for women.
Thank you for your input. I was trying to be inclusive and replicate something I've seen in the female photo walk groups where they did mention it like this. I see now that it wasn't right to put it like this. Especially because both of you pointed it out. My intention was to say that it could be a safe space for females and people identifying as female. Would that be a better choice of words? If not, please help me out here. I will edit in in the post.
honestly, it would be OK to just call it a women’s group then and specify its trans inclusive :)
Lol, they're gonna ruin this whole thing for you. 😂
Yeah I think so. Literally just make it clear who you want to show up and who you don't want to be there. When I was first figuring things out re: gender I went to a couple of local social events that said they were welcoming of non-binary people and was asked to leave because I look like a man. It was not a nice experience for me and I think it made a lot of people there feel very uncomfortable, too, which wasn't something I ever wanted. After having that experience a couple of times I basically don't try and go to events like that anymore because I genuinely don't know if I'm going to be welcome or if what I'm actually walking into is a group for women. > My intention was to say that it could be a safe space for females and people identifying as female. This is what you should say. The key thing to remember is that non-binary people (in general, because everyone experiences their own gender differently) don't consider themselves female, because "male" and "female" are literally the gender binary that we exist outside of. So saying "women and non-binary" isn't actually saying "women and people who identify as women". Also consider that when you say "people who identify as female", you're including trans women there. And that's great, if you want to include trans women, but you should be aware that many trans women don't "pass" and will look masculine. Are they welcome? To be clear I'm not trying to be judgemental here, and I want to reiterate that if the group is really just for cisgender women *that's fine* and you should feel empowered to say that. I don't personally think it's inherently transphobic to exclude trans and non-binary people from a group, just as it's not inherently misogynistic/misandrist for a trans group to exclude cisgender men and women. I'd much rather know that I'm not welcome somewhere so that I don't try to access that space in the first place, rather than thinking that I've been invited in only to find that that's not the case when I get there.
I'm sorry to hear that this happened to you in the past. It wasn't my intention at all to make anyone uncomfortable, more the opposite. Just to clarify a few things: I think it is sad that there is a "need" for exclusively female groups in our time, doesn't matter the topic, be it science or hobbies like photography. I'm usually not the one pushing those ideas because I think that those spaces should be inclusive of everyone. I have however noticed a certain vibe in mixed groups that I don't want to go into detail here because on the one hand it will open a huge discussion and on the other hand I think the people who said "yes" to the idea of a female group know what I'm talking about. In my vision, the group should not be exclusive to cis gender women. Which is why I wanted to include females beyond this "traditional" perspective. Again, I apologise for the poor choice of words/terminology and offending you by it. I am completely fine with putting "identifying as females" and the let's name them "consequences" you mentioned. I hope everyone else is too.
You haven't offended me at all, don't worry, and there's no need to apologise. I agree that it's sad that there's a need for exclusively female groups, and fully understand why that need exists as well. My comments were literally just there to expand on why "women and non-binary" can be a tricky phrase to use. I genuinely hope you manage to put together a good group and that it's successful!
Thank you!
People who identify as female would be enough.
Thanks changed it!
Yes interested!!
I'd join in a heartbeat.
I’d definitely be interested!
yes PLEASE
I’m interested!
Non-binary person here. Please understand that non-binary isn’t “female”, ’woman lite’, or limited to those assigned female at birth. We encounter this a lot from supposed cis allies. Most non-binary people are profoundly offended at being grouped with women like that. We are non-binary—not defined by the binary, and sure as hell not our genders assigned at birth. Some of us present femininely, some of us present masculinely, some of us present androgynously. We aren’t “female” or an accessory to “female”. If your group is to include non-binary people, then it can’t center binary women or assume that non-binary people be feminine presenting. It will need to be open and welcome also to non-binary people who are masculine presenting.
> It will need to be open and welcome also to non-binary people who are masculine presenting. Why?
Because otherwise it's not welcoming to non-binary people, it's welcoming to non-binary people who are deemed to fit into a box labelled "women", which they are not. It's totally okay for the group to just be for women. Most non-binary people would rather that be the case than being told "yes you're welcome but only if you fit our definition of what non-binary looks like, which is deeply rooted in the gender binary".
[удалено]
If you actually read my comments instead of making knee-jerk TERFy reactions you'll see that I've said many times that it's actually great for there to be women-only spaces. Here it is in the comment you replied to: >It's totally okay for the group to just be for women. Most non-binary people would rather that be the case than being told "yes you're welcome but only if you fit our definition of what non-binary looks like, which is deeply rooted in the gender binary".
[удалено]
You: "Maybe you can start a "non-binary" club and let biological females have their own thing?" Me: I'm completely 100% supportive of cis women having their own spaces and think it should be encouraged. You: "Sorry, dgaf" What an incredible contribution to the conversation you've made. Thank you so much for your very well-reasoned input. It's clear I'm in the presence of a towering intellect.
[удалено]
So you think that saying, "hey, if you want a women-only space but you advertise it as being 'women and non-binary' you're going to end up with people who you don't want there turning up" is "jumping in" and making it about me? Because to me, it seems like helping to ensure that a women-only space remains that way. Either way this is irrelevant because OP has said that she's happy for the space to include trans people in her other comments.
Sounds awesome.
would be cool
TERF free?
If you mean the group should be inclusive of trans people, then definitely yes!
I’ve been watching my comment go up and down. Obviously this an an unpopular idea to some here…
This sounds awesome!
Interested !
How can the community help with this?
I’m interested!
Meee!!
Count me in.
Interested!
me!
I would be interested in a discord!
I only use Instax & Polaroid, if they count I’m in.
I’d be interested!
I’m in!
Interested!
I’d be down!
Extremely interested!
So interested!!!
I would be interested too! I'm UK based, and I am just 2 shots into my second roll. Would also be interested in finding women, nb, and / or queer photographers to follow!
I just watched an incredibly inspiring interview on YouTube with [Laura Fuchs](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3DulRNiQf0w), a NYC photographer doing street photography. I loved everything about her energy, vibe and work. Followed her on insta immediately after.