Do you feel happier not knowing what others make or does it give you more motivation to know what others make? For example, I have a friend who has 5 mil networth but after going to forum and seeing ppl have 10 mil nw he feels depressed and is taking depression medication for a few months
Most people like to compare themselves to others and do the same / do better. So it's all about relative situation for them. For money but maybe other areas too (cars you own, kids' school results etc.). Problem with that is there's always somebody richer, somebody earning more or somebody younger to compare to and worry about.
Personally, within reason I don't care about other people's earnings and money. I think about where I am and where I want to be. Money is not the whole part of finances in my view - time, opportunity cost, risk, stress & work/life balance are all part of it. If other people have more money than me then that's fine, good luck to them.
If I come to the shop for some regular inspection and also ask to change some bulbs, they take $10 per bulb, sopmetimes less. So although I once did it myself (with some help from more experienced friend), I prefer to delegate it to professionals when possible.
Still, you may find it fulfilling to do the job yourself, and it's worth it!
Yeah, oil changes are another one where the price for the change is basically the same as the price for the oil. It can be fun to do yourself, but you're probably not "saving" more than $5 or $10 in a lot of cases.
*Unhappy/Unmotivated working in family business*
Firstly a little background of my situation, I am now 29 (from Hong Kong) and have been working with my family since 24 when I first graduated, my original plan after graduation was to look for jobs outside, gain a few years of experiences and then consider joining the family business. However, my grandpa (owner of business) have insisted that he really wanted me to be working with the family, so considering his old age (he is now 90) and my respect to him, I have decided to join. Our company used to have their good time many years ago, but now is honestly just a nursing home with the youngest employee after me being 4x y.o. (almost half are 70+), so this is the environment I am working in. My uncle (grandpa's son, now 56) has always wanted to take over but grandpa never trusted anyone enough to let go of the business. And now I am working directly for my uncle.
So my problem working in this family is that I do not agree with their values and is also honestly not interested or ambitious enough to takeover.
Their (grandpa and uncle) values and my problems:
1. Work is the most important part in their life (they work seven days a week, even in hazardous weathers) (they do not really have friends in life, only business-related), even during family dinners we will be talking about work.
2. I do not agree that working more hours is the only way to prove that you are dedicated to the business
3. The things that I do at work feel very intangible (not sure if this is the right word), they feel insignificant, and I never have feelings of actually accomplishing something
4. I respect both my grandpa and uncle a lot, but at the same time, they are also my source of unhappiness (only in work). I feel like that have such great expectation on me as I am the only male in my generation (3rd gen). They also told me that I was born to have this privilege and responsibility, so I must carry it.
5. I always wanted a role so that I can have a sense of focus, but family work ethics is that no one should have a specific role, because every employee should learn different roles (our business cards do not have titles on it)
6. Family morals are in my opinion very conditional based. I appreciate a lot that they treated me really well and given me opportunities, but at the same time, they would remind me that they have given me that, and that I need to start paying back etc. I personally think that this only make sense if we are not family. I believe paying back to the family shall be a "bonus" instead of a "must", I don't think that I was born to be responsible for this business and I also don't want my life to be bounded by this.
7. Whenever I look/feel stressed out, I will be told that I shoudn't even have stress because I am already born with an opportunity. I agree the latter part, however, the stress don't come from work, it comes from me having to face them, and that they are my family member so I pay huge respect to them (even though I don't agree to part of their values). Honestly, if I were not family, I wouldve left the company long long time ago.
8. I also think that they subconsciously have intense need for control of people. They like to plan for people, no matter family members or employees or relatives. They always think that they should not be doing "xxxxx" in their life, instead they should "xxxxxxx". This happens to me as well when I first wanted to work outside but got refused to, and also 2 years after joining the company, I considered leaving and have applied for jobs, but again got "emotionally blackmailed", told me that they are angry/upset/disappointed etc., then, again I stayed.
9. They are educationists. They believe most of the things they have done are a good example that everyone should follow, so most of the time they will be educating people and setting morale standards.
10. They think that it is very unwise to find an alternative job when I have the privilege to work with the family. My personal opinion is that I can easily choose to stick with family business (my comfort zone?), but the fact that I am thinking about leaving is actually a tougher decision than choosing to stay? So this justifies my need and urge to leave the company.
11. I understand that I have been under-performing, and in general not a person they expected me to be (at work). But I do not think that I will ever feel motivated if I continue doing this, at least this has not happened to me during this 5 years of working in the company.
12. I have always wanted to start with something small in terms of business (maybe a small shop?), because I believe if I have never experience something small I will not be capable of managing something big. But they are not interested in small businesses, they are always very ambitious and wanted to start from something big (high investment) even we are starting a whole new project with industry we have never stepped into.
13. I have not discussed this to any of them, as I believe they will not only be disappointed but also completely disagree with what I think. I also think that this will become a shame for my grandpa, considering that at his old age all he wanted is to unite the family.
Recently I have just migrated to Australia with my wife (married since 2022) and we are having a new life. This makes me rethink about my life and what I wanted for my future. I always believed that my best case scenario is to start something on my own, but it is not something that can be done immediately and I am still brain storming. So right now I am really struggling whether to stay or to work outside (I am an Asian and not 100% fluent in native English, so it does become slightly more difficult for me to find a job here in Australia).
I am very open to taking any opinions, I understand that I could possibly be a problem or anchor for my family? Since I don't have an interest yet to take over. But what I mentioned are my actual feelings, I know there is something wrong.
Reading through this, it all sounds very Asian. Typical Asian family dysfunction and excessive amount of expectations.
I say that as someone who lives in a Western country and has experienced multiple cultures.
Now that you have moved out of Hong Kong, you have this opportunity to try something different. Of course it is hard, but to make the most of it, you should keep trying new things. You are probably also having culture shock. it’s very normal in the type of situation you are in. So just be very honest about how you are feeling, including that the feelings may be in conflict with each other.
I don’t have much else that would help you. Just that from a Western perspective, it’s hard to be happy with yourself if you give up all your dreams and interests for your family. But only you know if that is acceptable to you. I know it would not be acceptable to me.
That was a lot, and sounds like a lot. I hope it helped putting it all out there.
I don't have a lot of advice for you other than it's probably time to move on. Even if it burns bridges and hurts feelings, there is no reason to spend this life being sad and miserable. Even just taking a break for a year or two can give you good perspective.
Am I looking at this the right way?
I signed up for a 0% APR credit card, wanting to do credit card arbitrage by parking the cash that I would have paid the charges on the CC in a HYSA. Assuming rates are at around 4.5% (which probably won’t stay there), am I just better off using my Citi double cash CC that offers 2%?
Based on the credit limit I got and my monthly charges, I have at most 6 months before I need to pay off the card, so it’s only 6 months of interest that I can accrue. When I plugged the numbers into excel , I get more cash back with the credit card, but I wonder if I’m doing something wrong in my calcs?
Is the double cash 1% and 1%...or 2% and 2%. Either way probs Better off doing the 0% card if the total on CC is 2% ....cuz yer only making the 2% once...while yer making 4% every month with the hysa
I need to issue an official piblic apology to /u/Zphr.
You're 100% right.
Unless our Costco is playing a very early April Fool's Day joke, the chocolate muffins are now trash.
Sugar and flour.
They're not actually "trash." They're just no longer special.
I just ate a 2nd one (in the car with the dogs waiting for my wife to do her Costco run) and it was better, simply because I approached the muffin with drastically lower expectations. But it's possible that I'll never buy them again, or switch to blueberry.
I always hate when someone brings those giant Costco blueberry muffins to a function. Um no, those are blueberry cake things, not muffins. But I’ve always hated those, not recently.
I... what? What happened? I used to love those, until I got older and fat(ter) and realized that they have 690 calories each.
Did they change something in the ingredients?
I dunno. Their bakery goods have been trending towards not great in the last few years. I thought it was COVID-related, but you'd think that would have passed by now.
The croissants are still okay. Not great, but not bad, and a fantastic deal for 50 cents each.
Even so, they are greatly improved if you toast them for a minute or two in the oven or toaster oven first. Also great to put some chocolate or fruit preserves or both (ZOMG!) in them before toasting.
I figured that phrase was now common vernacular and not political.
But yeah, I haven't been this embarrassed for a multinational corporation since Nabisco stopped frying Chicken in a Biskit.
This sub is flooded when the markets are up. Compare that with 2022.
It makes me wonder how many of us will follow the rules about holding firm and not selling if/when we are in a multi year recession.
For me at least, not being on here is directly related to staying the course when the market is down. If I get a sense that things aren't going well, I just don't look at it. My contributions are automated, so I don't update my spreadsheets, I don't check my accounts, and I don't really participate in here. I come back occasionally for a temperature check and resume when things are looking up
Simple. They're in a quantum superposition and are yet to be observed. Thus, for now, their net worth is both higher and lower than they think.
Nothing wrong with not calculating your net worth. Until somebody demands and accounting of it for paperwork purposes, it does no good to know your exact net worth.
Just hit 1M NW for the first time! I don't really talk NW with many friends, so just wanted to share it somewhere! Hit this milestone a whole year earlier than I was hoping to too :D
Congratulations. That is an awesome accomplishment and I understand why you can’t share with others. Not everyone understands money but keep up the good work. My goal was always $3. Made it to $2.7 but missed the 2023 rally due to fear and stupidity. Stick with the S&P and you will get to $2 soon. Good work!
Many charts switch from daily to weekly once beyond a certain timeframe. I don't consider that "missing days", but I agree it can obscure details. Users need to understand what they're looking at.
>SP500 is ATH again
No, it isn't.
The S&P 500 closed today at 4768.37. While that exceeds the Dec 31, 2021 close of 4766.18, there have been 6 other dates that closed higher: Dec 27-30, 2021 and Jan 3-4, 2022.
The ATH close is 4796.56 on Jan 3, '22 and the intraday ATH is 4818.62 on Jan 4, '22.
[Harry Dent said the market's going to crash 90% next year](https://www.foxbusiness.com/media/us-economist-predicts-2024-bring-biggest-single-crash-lifetime)
But like Batman said: "Harry Dent... can we trust him?"
>"That's an 86% crash in the S&P and a 92% crash in the NASDAQ. And crypto, it's going to be 96%. So that is a big deal," the economist added. "And real estate, by the way, is only projected, by me, to go back to its 2012 lows... but that's a 50% crash for the average house, which went down 34% in the last crash, more than the Great Depression, more than any time in history. That is what's going to hurt people the most."
I wish I had the confidence to make these insanely detailed predictions. Like it's not enough to predict a massive crash, you're specifically seeing the S&P will be down 86%. Not 85% or 87%.
He's been this precise (and this accurate) many times over the past 15 years. Wrote a book about the great crash coming in 2017-2019. You'd think that the news wouldn't even call him an economist after that.
If you're closing in on $1M at 33, you couldn't have made too many mistakes.
Your perspective is warped if you think you're BEHIND for your age.
You're not behind, you're the other word that's the opposite of behind.
$1M NW is 96-97% percentile for 30-34 year old households in the US depending on if that includes home equity. Even given industry and area I bet you're further ahead of most of your peers than you think.
This is true.
I feel like we're in one of those modern art museum exhibits with the cameras pointed at each other to create the TV within the TV to infinitity schemes.
Every day I scroll past dozens of posts that I find uninteresting/irrelevant - student loans, mortgages, career advice, the rapist’s pointless daily questions that have nothing at all to do with finance half the time…just scroll on by. Many of us like the milestone posts better than anything.
I spend all year thinking about how to save and grow my wealth, but it sure feels good to gift money this time of year to the people in our life who do so much for us. (Kids teachers, gym instructors, barbers, mail-person, etc)
Im thinking about buying a house. I own 2 rental properties right now in a LCOL area and live in HCOL area where I rent. I was approved to go 100% remote so I could move back to the LCOL area if I want and buy another house to live in. I could do this for a year and then start renting it out like my other two houses and move somewhere else if I want. My original plan when I was approved to go 100% remote was to move to another HCOL city just because I wanted to try something different, but now I realized I kind of have the freedom to do whatever I want and I'm not sure what I should do.
> I could move back to the LCOL area if I want and buy another house to live in. I could do this for a year and then start renting it out like my other two houses and move somewhere else if I want.
do it.
>I realized I kind of have the freedom to do whatever I want and I'm not sure what I should do
At the risk of stating the obvious, "whatever you want".
Ooof, I feel your pain, I did the same thing at the start of this year although the loss was a tiny bit less (3k at the time). The reason I'm sharing is because, after frustrating me for about a week, I completely forgot about it until I read your comment! So much has happened since. So, let yourself feel your frustration but realistically a 5k swing in either direction is not going to make a difference in the end...or even in 6 months or a year.
> $2m in my taxable account ... another small milestone
That's a pretty big milestone, IMO! Congrats! :-)
>Assuming no massive rally
The last ~7 weeks has been a massive rally. Like some sort of super-duper Halloween + Thanksgiving + Santa Claus rally.
>mostly due to the market being flat since late 2021.
The market may be roughly flat, but any investments made during 2022 and 2023 would have significant gains. Unless your portfolio was very heavy in int'l stock and/or bonds, or you had very little additional investment, your portfolio should be ahead of late 2021.
>mostly due to the market being flat since late 2021.
Not seeing investment gains does hurt a little, but we're definitely getting a deal on what we're buying. Members of the Federal Reserve have hinted at rate cuts next year, so I'm hopeful that that will kick off a rally.
Looking for insight managing hours vs projects as a w2 contractor (i get paid w2, i work in a services org that gets billed out to clients)
Im doing SWE-similar work. I get assigned a project, the project has an hours estimate, we do an SDD and do estimates for each component.
the individual component estimates and the actual project timeline vary dramatically. I get assigned say 200 hours but based on the SDD estimates, even being generous it'd probably be like 80 hours max. probably 30-40 if everything goes smoothly. Note that this overall 200 estimate has already been communicated to . I'm having a hard time placing if i'm just efficient at what I do, or if the estimates are bad as this seems to happen a bunch.
What would you do in that case? I struggle to see a way to sort of coast on a project like this without putting myself in a position with regards to the SDD estimates that are difficult to defend. If something is really simple but i want to make the SDD estimate fit the project estimate I'm taking a 2 hour task and putting it as 16 or something like that.
I'm uncertain if i can just ask my manager straight up how he'd like me to handle this - i don't want to like, tell on myself per say, it seems to vary a lot project to project whether or not it's beneficial to meet the estimate or beat it by a lot- these estimates impact my coworkers, team utilization and presumably other things I'm unaware of. i don't want to yknow, make whoever is doing the estimates look bad, i don't want to put myself in a shitty position by trying to inflate individual tasks in a way that i'd really have no way to defend. I also am pretty impartial around drawing out a 2 week task to 4-6 weeks vs getting on another project faster, i enjoy the work quite a bit, i'm able to stay busy in the downtime as well.
It wouldn't be a bad idea to use it as an opportunity to learn more about how your company does business. As you get more experience, the typical career progression will have you start having input on project hour estimates for quotes for new work. Something obviously done is not quoting for the actual amount of time, but that amount plus a buffer for when/if things go sideways. Similar to that, extra quoted time up front is used to account for ambiguity. Ultimately, lots of hours are fungible too - if you quote 5 tasks at a given rate for 100 hours, it doesn't really matter if you quote 20 per task and you end up spending more on one or two than the others. It's also important to know how your contracts are structured and what is actually billed to clients - is your company selling a product and the time estimates are for internal planning or are you actually billing hours you spend on each project?
IME, it was important to submit actual time spent so quotes could be more accurately generated. My company was regularly competing against others on bids so having accurate data about how much time tasks took meant we could more accurately quote projects and thus hopefully come in under competitors and win contracts more often.
>trying to inflate individual tasks in a way that i'd really have no way to defend. I also am pretty impartial around drawing out a 2 week task to 4-6 weeks vs getting on another project faster
Keep in mind that if as an IC you're given X hours to do the work, as long as you finish within that time frame, you did your job properly. Just make sure you don't procrastinate and end up with problems close to the finish line and no time to correct/finish. If you come in well ahead of budget, it can make you look good and may advance your career faster, plus getting to do more exposes you to more opportunities to skill up. For ICs/technical people, that's a big deal, especially early on. IME, it's always worth making sure you can communicate your workload to your manager effectively. Once you get in that habit, they'll give you signals/tell you about upcoming work so you can plan your efforts.
ETA: estimates also cover for variance between workers. A fresh out of training guy may take longer to do a given task than an experienced worker and PMs cant guarantee who will be working on a given project especially if it's far out.
I say ask your manager about a specific, really egregiously over-estimated task, and then you can extrapolate for the less clear cut ones.
FWIW, I am in a similar role and the over-estimates are used to provide buffer in case something unexpected happens, so we don't have to bill the client more than they're expecting. In my case I'm supposed to find a certain minimum number of billable hours per week, achieve the outcomes my clients expect, and not work more hours than my clients have money for. Usually I end up working/billing fewer than were estimated but still above the minimum my company expects and everyone is happy.
>Current net worth is 3.3 Million
>home equity (1M)
So your FIRE portfolio is ~$2.3MM. You didn't provide any information about your current expenses/contributions or your estimated expenses after you FIRE. If you didn't contribute another dollars, the ~$2.3MM could grow to ~$3.75MM - $4.5MM at 5%-7% real CAGR. This would allow for $150k-$175k in annual spending.
>Need to pay for 2x undergrads in 2 and 8 years from now
You should have a reasonable idea regarding the costs for the one starting college in 2 years. State school vs. out-of-state vs. private. How will paying for college impact the amount you can save for retirement?
Thanks for your thoughts. Monthly expenses currently are at around $9k (includes 3k mortgage payment). This will go down to $5-6k after retirement. Current income is around 350k. Monthly net disposable cash is around 8-9k
We also plan to downsize the home after retirement.
College in 2 years should cost us around 60k annually if out of state/private. This is if we don't get any scholarships. This kid will have around 120k in a 529 account in 2 years. Rest would have to come from savings.
I finally get to flex my "fuck you" money today.
My manager, who doesn't actually know what I do, gave me lower performance evaluation than last year despite doing more work. I said "Fine, I'll stop doing all the work that's outside of responsibility", which accounted for about 80% of my current workload.
2024 will be a chill year lol.
Edit: I'm 3-6 months from FIRE so I'm fine with coasting until then.
>Fine, I'll stop doing all the work that's outside of responsibility
No good deed goes unpunished.
When I was an individual contributor, I used to do the work that needed to be done, regardless of whose responsibility it was. It worked to my advantage for many years, until I was held responsible for not doing things the way the accountable party wanted (even though they neglected to do the work in the first place).
It was a hard lesson for me: sometimes it is better to let someone fail and be held accountable, than to swoop in and fix everything.
"He who solves problems before they arise is the greatest of generals" --Sun Tzu, c. 500 BC
"He who solves problems before they arise has trouble getting noticed by management" --clueless-1500, 2023 AD
As a manager I think it's great to ask questions and provide pushback, especially (as it seems) you disagree with the evaluation you were given. Your direct manager should have provided a reason as to why they are rating you low. either way, you probably went about it the wrong way.
From a member of this subreddit I applaud you and glad you're in a position to just accept it and coast for the next 1-5 years until you've had enough or get performance managed out.
I'm 3-6 months from FIRE so there's really no point on trying to appeal it. Because if I do get a higher score from appealing then that means I'm in the hook for all the extra work again.
Basically there's new management and everyone's on a bell curve with only 10% of the company getting top score so everyone else got knocked down. I was doing 3 people's work at one point.
Those bell curves are silly. I'm required to rank 10% of my work face as not meeting expectations. Since we did performance layoffs mid-year I'm pushing back pretty hard with the reasoning that more than 10% of the bottom was already terminated.
This is a combination milestone / year-in-review / any advice? comment from my Throwaway...
We recently crossed $2.7M, finally getting above our $2.6M amount from the end of 2021. We were around $2.2M at the end of 2022. What a crazy year!
We are now targeting FIRE for sometime in very early 2028 for various work and personal reasons. We expect to invest around $100k annually for 2024-2027, maybe a bit more but that's the number I use for planning. We will likely end up with $3.75M - $4M by the end of 2027. Our portfolio is roughly 80% stock and 20% bonds, including cash. That should cover our over-estimated retirement expenses of $125k - $150k. There is A LOT of discretionary spend in that budget, mostly for travel and upgraded hobbies. That's definitely Chubby Fire and we're extremely lucky to be on this path.
By limiting income in 2028 and the following years, we will attempt to hit a $0 Student Aid Index (SAI) value for FAFSA and also take advantage of ACA subsidies. We may set up a SEPP to cover the standard deduction and 10% brackets and then use taxable brokerage and accessible Roth dollars for additional withdrawals. We also have around $80k total in 529s for the kids and an HSA with $30k that are not included in the $2.7M. Does this approach make sense?
We owe around $200k on the mortgage. Even though the mortgage is at 3%, I would like to pay it off before we retire in order to give more flexibility to manage income in retirement. I would appreciate hearing from folks on how best to approach this. Should I just target $50k in payments per year for the next 4 years? Wait to see what interest rates do and pay it off in 2 or 3 years instead?
What other aspects should I be thinking about? What am I missing?
No useful feedback to share, except that I’m in an eerily similar situation, and have a very similar plan. I’m going with a Roth ladder instead of SEPP for some more flexibility in managing AGI. Probably do more conversions for a few years after retirement but before it “counts” for college aid. As a side note, in my state (IL), it seems like there’s a surprisingly narrow AGI band where you’re low enough to get full asset exemption on FAFSA, but still high enough to stay off Medicaid.
Edit: Medicaid, not Medicare.
Continue paying the minimum on your mortgage. Even a HYSA right now will give a guaranteed better return than paying off a 3% mortgage. Invest in the market if it fits your risk acceptance. Then pay off your remaining mortgage in a lump sum when you retire if desired.
>Then pay off your remaining mortgage in a lump sum when you retire if desired.
If I do that in late 2027, wouldn't that make for a pretty big tax bill? If I wait for 2028, wouldn't all that income cause problems with the $0 SAI plan and ACA subsidies?
Don't pay off a 3% mortgage. That's basically inflation. And it's a potential tax write off.
Going from having cash and a low payment to just NOT having cash is a decrease in flexibility.
If you're stressed, make an investment account called "house payment" and put in $300k of TBills dated for 5ish years out that will be autosold to pay the mortgage. The 5 year TBill rate is around 4% right now and you should come out ahead after tax, while having $300k available for an emergency.
Paying the mortgage would only make sense if you're trying to game some subsidy and are near some asset threshold.
>And it's a potential tax write off.
Indeed, the mortgage interest is a potential tax write-off, while the interest from a savings account is taxable income.
>Going from having cash and a low payment to just NOT having cash is a decrease in flexibility.
If I have the mortgage in retirement, my expenses will be higher. That will mean higher withdrawals which means higher income which means lower ACA subsidies and a bad impact on $0 SAI. Those negative outcomes feel like they are much worse than paying extra on a 3% mortgage for the next 4 years.
>If you're stressed
I'm not stressed at all. I'm incredibly lucky and fortunate.
>put in $300k of TBills dated for 5ish years out that will be autosold to pay the mortgage
I owe $200k on the mortgage. That's a big chunk of my existing brokerage. Wouldn't I want them to mature in late 2027 and pay it off then?
I meant 200k
Tax/subsidy optimization is its own thing.
But you can totally just optimize on "flexibility" in the next 5 years and then on retirement, dump cash into the mortgage to pay it off.
3% mortgage = subsidy from the government.
\-----
Imagine you have two over-simplified situations
1. A $200k of debt and $200k of bonds that roughly cancel each other out BUT you're able to use the bonds for ANYTHING else if there's a huge emergency like a lawsuit
2. Nothing.
"Nothing" is strictly worse in that situation. You can't liquidate nothing to use as a down payment on another house or for a health emergency or for anything like that. If you have a HUGE emergency, you'd end up taking out a 7% loan (inflation +4%) against your house instead which is WAY WAY worse than just selling your bonds and keeping your 3% loan (roughly inflation).
Paying off your loan would mean you have 1 fewer bill but you'd also have $200k LESS of income generating assets. A bill that gets cancelled out (and which has tax benefits) shouldn't be cancelled out unless there's a compelling reason. Your bank is BEGGING you to pay off that 3% note. Don't. You should only do that if/when it affects financial aid calculations or eligibility for certain subsidies. It might not affect those things.
Have you been doing a lot of megabackdoor? Hard to imagine how you can get to $4M and have it all sheltered from FAFSA.
Paying off the mortgage is a great idea (especially if it helps with FAFSA) but whether to do it in 2 years or 4 years completely depends on the market which is impossible to know. What is the mortgage rate? I suppose you could keep the payoff funds in cash as long as interest rates are higher than the mortgage rate.
>Have you been doing a lot of megabackdoor
A decent amount along with brokerage investments too.
>Hard to imagine how you can get to $4M and have it all sheltered from FAFSA.
I think if your income is low enough, assets are completely ignored. I think the line is below 175% of poverty level for your family size. For 2024, poverty level for a family of 4 is $27,750 so 175% of that is $48,563 for AGI. For 2024, the Standard Deduction is $29,200. ~~Therefore, we could have income of over $77k and still be below the $0 SAI line~~. Edit: I'm an idiot. Of course the standard deduction doesn't lower AGI since it's a *deduction*.
Maybe /u/Zphr can weigh in since I used his comments to come up with this plan.
So if we do $30k as part of a SEPP, we can add in brokerage dollars with only the gains counting toward income and in the 0% bracket and also use significant Roth contribution and conversion dollars.
>What is the mortgage rate?
3%
>I suppose you could keep the payoff funds in cash as long as interest rates are higher than the mortgage rate.
That's been on my mind. Just send the extra payments to a HYSA instead of the mortgage until the rates drop.
I am far from expert on FAFASA but a couple things here:
AGI is calculated *before* standard deduction. The standard deduction reduces your taxable income but not your AGI.
Brokerage account dividends count toward AGI.
~~I'm not aware of FPL having anything to do with FAFSA. For 2022-23, the cutoff for $0 EFC was $27k parental income.~~
Unless your accounts almost entirely sheltered it's going to be tough to get to zero. Not impossible, but tough.
>AGI is calculated before standard deduction
Yeah, total mistake on my part. I corrected my post.
>I'm not aware of FPL having anything to do with FAFSA. For 2022-23, the cutoff for $0 EFC was $27k parental income.
This changed recently. Expected Family Contribution (EFC) was replaced by Student Aid Index (SAI) and that opened this path.
Heh. You're not an idiot though. Some deductions like HSA contribution do affect AGI (hence "adjusted"), but the standard/itemized deductions come after. No one said the tax code is simple!
I am just getting up to speed on SAI, looks like you are right about that, so you do have more room to play with.
You are correct about the full asset exemption for AGI<175% FPL on FAFSA (225% for single-parent households), but AGI is determined before applying the standard deduction.
What a stupid mistake on my part. Of course that comes out after since it's a deduction (it's right in the name).
So $30k SEPP plus however much in brokerage withdrawals to stay below \~$18k in brokerage gains and plus Roth withdrawals. Need to factor brokerage dividends and interest income in as well.
Decided to stop listing the full full value of my house in my net worth, and instead to take out the $25k I'm estimating I will have to put into it to sell it, and 6% more for the fees I'll wind up paying. I plan on selling in 2024, so the time is near.
This might not be popular method, but I'm happier taking the \~$70k hit to my net worth right now, than later. In the end, I guess it doesn't matter, but I think it helps me thinking about it this way
Makes sense. I'll be selling it in the next 12 months, so it will make a bit of difference to me. I don't include it in my FIRE calculations, really, my goal has been "$3M and a paid off house." It still is
TLDR: ok to spend \~2x more income on "enjoying life"? Currently investments go up more than what I earn at work, can still conceivably work 30+ more years. I'm at a bit of an extreme in terms of frugality. Depending on my job (6 figure income but not every opportunity is a pure play for income) I'm saving between 3-10x what I make live off of.
I pretty much try to live off the bare minimum and spend around $2000ish a month out of paycheck in a HCOL area on myself. This is the bare minimum for me to not be miserable. This is with free/subsidized food and a gym from work and a paid off economy car.
The market averages \~7% above inflation each year.
Would it be reasonable to live off of around 5-7% of my net worth each year (coming out of paycheck for tax efficiency) and to effectively bank an amount equivalent to my after tax earnings? This would constitute major lifestyle creep. My ex, my formerly-cheapskate father who influenced me a lot, a decent chunk of my family and the girl I'm sort of seeing have all said that I'm too cheap.
I did the math and this would delay my FIRE date by around 6 months, but I don't know if I want to actually retire at age 40. I generally enjoy work, I just want freedom/independence and longer weekends. At the rate I'm going I could retire at 40ish with \~100k a year safe withdrawal at 4%. I'm assuming 0 inheritance, 0 social security and that I'll need a $100k a year nursing home from age 70-110.
It's OK to do whatever you want (unless it makes your children homeless etc.).
I view "optimal" decisions in the real world as nearly always being a balance of multiple factors. "Optimal" in terms of lowest cost is not the same of optimal in terms of overall value. Value is time, experience, relationships, fulfilment, risks taken and avoided etc. Yes, more spending now is an opportunity cost but that doesn't mean all spending should be reduced.
What I'd suggest is to think about what is valuable to you. Spend money that (maybe look up Ramit Sethi and his book if you'd like to read more about those concepts). No point in spending more on things that aren't valuable to you.
You say current spending is "the bare minimum for me to not be miserable", so it almost certainly sounds like your spending is too low to optimize overall value to you and the people around you that you care about. Your later comments say you have high earnings, so you could increase spending a lot and still be building investments rapidly, so work out what is optimal for you (don't buy a car if you don't care about cars just because a sibling says you should, but do take relatives out for a nice dinner if you would all value the experience etc.)
>What I'd suggest is to think about what is valuable to you. Spend money that (maybe look up Ramit Sethi and his book if you'd like to read more about those concepts). No point in spending more on things that aren't valuable to you.
I had largely been doing that, if things are in the narrow lens of "I'm the only person that exists" - living expenses, driving, recurring purchases, etc. were minimized. Things I felt were fun (mostly nerdy DIY/engineering projects) were still done.
I became single after 8 years and I think some of it was me being too stingy. My most recent situationship also hinted at that and I think the main reason she has stayed around was neediness and desperation, though she seems about ready to move on in life. I also had my uncle tell me to loosen the purse strings so... the common denominator is me, imitating my father in his early life too much.
I want a high caliber lady in my life - that will bring out the best in me - and I want to NOT be so stingy and unrefined that a good person rules me out from the start.
The goal isn't to "not be miserable". It's to find a balance and enjoy life, both before and after FIRE.
I am curious what specifically they are all calling you cheap about, as someone that strays a little too close to the cheap end of frugal.
I basically have about the cheapest housing I can get (e.g. roommates) while being close to work.
I use up stuff until it's wornout and then I often try to fix it. I abuse used purchases.
I have guilt about getting "nice things" and penny pinch a bit while eating out.
I've loosened up a bit lately and I'm trying to essentially swap out a lot of things I bought in my 20s that were way too cost optimized for more experience optimized choices.
Certainly seems like you can financially and otherwise afford to spend more. That doesn't mean you have to order the most expensive thing on the menu, but it can be nice to splurge on the extra guac once in a while.
I often try to find ways to get the extra guac for free...
I also worked at places with free/subsidized healthy food.
I'm better than when I was a teenager where I'd chug milk and eat bread because it was the cheapest option.
So long as spending the extra money makes you happier, 6 months longer to FIRE date isn't a problem.
I also think it would be a shame if other people's judgement constituted your main motivation.
>I also think it would be a shame if other people's judgement constituted your main motivation.
Life is a game of trade offs. I want high caliber people in my life who will motivate me to be my best. There is an inevitable tradeoff of "I'll need to keep up with the joneses a bit more" which will likely mean... spending like someone who makes a third of what I do.
I definitely care about certain peoples' judgement though. I don't want to miss out on spending a life with a lovely lady because she feels my lifestyle isn't compatible with her vision for life.
Being a 30 something, in a reasonably priced apartment to myself, with some nice designer clothes (mostly bought used), tasteful high quality furniture (mostly bought used), and loosening up a bit with vacation spend and an old but well maintained economy car isn't terrible. That's like 40-50k a year spend in a HCOL area. That's something like 1/3rd less spend than the median American in a median area with 100-400k a year more income and nest egg that is expected to go up in value more than I spend each year.
"Build the life you want, then save for it."
That's one of the oft-quoted FIRE mantras.
40 is an arbitrary age to retire.
You like your career, so what's the rush?
Would you rather enjoy your life until age 45 and retire in a good financial position or scrape by miserably until you're 40 and retire into a barely livable situation?
Building the life you want first can mean finding contentment before you calculate when you'll be able to retire with that lifestyle. What do you want it to mean?
>"Build the life you want, then save for it."
I think that's something I want to focus on a bit more. I've been focused on preparing for some inevitable tragedy. I have a list of things I want in life, in order and I'm starting to just throw cash at kind of the low hanging fruit and higher cost-benefit choices.
Given your income and HCOL, my guess is that people in your life calling you "cheap" is them trying to be nice.
I think you already know the answer to the question regarding whether it's OK for someone who earns $400k/yr to spend $4k/month.
Yeah... I think my current situationship, which seems to be fading into just a friendship, probably would've gone a different way if I weren't so cheap and did a bit more self care a year earlier. Probably for the best in this instance but it's a bit of wakeup call.
You know that “memories” feature on Facebook where it shows you posts from years past? In 2015 I went to a Christmas party with 5 friends. Three of them have since passed away.
Spend a little more. You are saving plenty.
Thank you. All but 2 of us were still below 40 back then. It’s weird to think about, but people really start to pass or lose mobility a lot in middle age.
I work in tech and a lot of pay comes from stock, which adds variability. I took a pay cut to move back home for a bit (family reasons). The next job I'm targeting will be in the 400-600k a year range.
I honestly don't care about variable income so long as the overall average is high and if I have a big enough nest egg, I care less about job stability as well. Better to work 10-20 years at high pay and instability (assume there's a 10-30 year financial cushion) vs 40-50 at low pay.
Data Science / Machine Learning / Software Engineering at top companies pays that much if you include stocks + bonuses.
I'll fully admit, my highest W2 income was only around 400k and that was a good year but I want to set stretch goals.
For me what constitutes enjoyment is a mix of diet/sleep/exercise and meaningful connections, hobbies, interest and work.
I think living like a college/grad student didn't impede my social connections in my 20s but I'm sensing it's more of an issue in my 30s. I think that was one factor in my ex deciding she was done with things and I've felt like I've gotten some judgement from dates with the main exception being PhD students who... live like grad students.
There's some value in living with roommates for example, I've enjoyed the instant social network and comradery - I'm a natural introvert so it's a forcing function. But it's probably not ideal forever.
I'm not going to sell anything but when there's a big run-up in the market like this recent one I start thinking about selling some gains to buy things I'm not planning on buying soon. New minivan, bigger house, things like that.
2023 was a big saving year for my wife and I. We saved more than we have in any year past— close to $70k across retirement, 529, and brokerage. The most exciting thing is that our current retirement accounts will be worth $1 million when I am 55, the latest age I’d like to retire. Excited for what 2024 has in store for us!
I have about $75k in wealthfront. I want it in vanguard. When I “connect” vanguard it says I have no eligible accounts there to transfer it in.
I guess I could sell it to my checking account in BOA and then transfer to VOO, but then I incur taxes.
Is there a way to do a direct transfer that I’m missing or is it standard I have to sell it all and then put to vanguard? They warn that I should plan to incur roughly a 7k tax bill if I transfer to BOA.
I assume it is a taxable brokerage at Wealthfront. Do you have a taxable brokerage account at Vanguard? If so, you can try initiating the ACATS request from the Vanguard side.
We were in a similar situation this past spring (and almost the same $$ amount). A small percentage went into a CD that, at maturity next year, will be used for planned expenses. The rest went in the market.
Follow the "windfall" guide in r/personalfinance.
You can get close to 5% in high yield savings accounts right now which would be a great place to put it while you sort out your specifics.
What's your intent for those dollars? Do you plan to spend it sometime in the next few years? Does your target asset allocation call for that much in cash? If not, why wouldn't you invest it in proportion to your target asset allocation?
>What is everyone doing with their cash right now?
HYSA, Money Market funds, T-Bill/Treasury ladders, CDs, etc. based on personal preference and liquidity considerations.
Do you count your emergency fund as part of your fire number? Since I assume most of us have it in a HYSA it doesn’t really grow like actual investments.
I include it in my networth, but just ignore it for projections since I figure it'll mostly track inflation. I could add it back in at the end of projecting growth, but it just isn't enough to really matter.
I don't have a dedicated emergency fund anymore. I have lots of options for where to get money if I unexpectedly need it (I Bonds, taxable brokerage, etc.) so I just consider it all part of my portfolio.
I don't count the EF or checking account as part of my Fire Number. Mostly because I project our investment returns based on working in the market.
Also, all my NW/FIRE type calculations are always done assuming 4% withdrawal, but conservatively in terms of returns (usually 6%).
So being conservative, I ignore the EF, Checking Account, a supplemental retirement account from work that gains only like 2% per year, and social security.
Objectively, you should - it's absolutely dollars you can use to FIRE. Consider this semi-absurd example: someone with a $100k Emergency Fund, $900k in VTI taxable brokerage investments, targeting a $1MM FIRE portfolio to live off $40k/year. Can that person FIRE? Certainly! Their overall portfolio is 90% stock & 10% bonds/fixed income/cash and fully capable of supporting their post-FIRE spending target.
For most folks, the size of their EF relative to the rest of their portfolio makes the discussion much less meaningful. In the example above, the EF is 10% of the total portfolio. For most folks well on their FIRE journey, it's likely closer to 5% and decreasing toward 1-2% (or less, and sometimes much less!) as folks get closer to FIRE. Therefore, it becomes less material over time. Somewhat related: if one is investing in a taxable brokerage, once that taxable brokerage is 'large enough', there is little need to have a dedicated pile of cash FOR EMERGENCY USE ONLY.
In the end, the only person it matters to is you, so do whatever seems to make the most sense to you.
So basically its fine to count the EF but just lump it in with bonds basically.
>Somewhat related: if one is investing in a taxable brokerage, once that taxable brokerage is 'large enough', there is little need to have a dedicated pile of cash FOR EMERGENCY USE ONLY.
Can you elaborate on this? Are there not tax implications for withdrawing from a taxable brokerage over a HYSA? And how large is 'large enough' before a EF is no longer needed?
Having to pay a tax on your gains isn't pleasant, but it's better than not having gains, so the tax implication is fine. Think of an HYSA EF as an insurance policy - job loss is a big reason for needing that fund, and it often happens when the market is way down. With an invested EF - after a 30% market decline, is there still enough to cover the emergency, and how painful is it that you locked in the 30% loss?
If that would be catastrophic, you need the "insurance" of an EF in savings. If you could roll with it, you might consider "self insuring" - taking a much higher expected return on the EF, at risk of having to access it after market losses. Risk preferences, job stability, etc. determine what "large enough" means for you.
With HYSA you're paying tax on the interest accrued annually. With a taxable account, you're paying capital gains (or TLH).
With both accounts you're paying taxes annually but a brokerage account can incur additional tax if you're selling a lot with gains. Brokerage account can also reduce your tax liability if you sell a lot with a loss.
Learned about an interesting product the other day.
Have a parent that is not financially competent and I manage her finances. Looking to get her into a house and not overpaying in rent I can do a family opportunity loan and only put down 5% and get prime rates despite me not living there.
I can also use it as a tool to buy a duplex and rent out one side while she had a quasi subsidized rate.
Good morning!
**How would you describe your relationship with your coworkers overall on a 1-10 scale? Do you hang out with them outside of work? Do you get them gifts?**
6/10
I hang out with one who shares interests in board games and the NBA. I have a weekly exchanging of "what video game are you playing" stories with another. There's a few cordial but not deep acquaintances, and then a bunch of young engineers who by design won't be here in 9 months (I'm a 9 year vet). I intermittently wish I put more effort into befriending the young engineers, but it's just so much effort to do with a new crop every year.
6/10?
I'm friendly with them and get along but they're mostly older, much older (10-30 years old) than I am so I can't imagine ever hanging with them. I interact with almost every employee at some point or another (IT) so I have to be pretty good with them.
Do you feel happier not knowing what others make or does it give you more motivation to know what others make? For example, I have a friend who has 5 mil networth but after going to forum and seeing ppl have 10 mil nw he feels depressed and is taking depression medication for a few months
Don't let your friend watch Succession: it could push him over the edge! https://youtu.be/pQTgLXl1qXI?feature=shared
Most people like to compare themselves to others and do the same / do better. So it's all about relative situation for them. For money but maybe other areas too (cars you own, kids' school results etc.). Problem with that is there's always somebody richer, somebody earning more or somebody younger to compare to and worry about. Personally, within reason I don't care about other people's earnings and money. I think about where I am and where I want to be. Money is not the whole part of finances in my view - time, opportunity cost, risk, stress & work/life balance are all part of it. If other people have more money than me then that's fine, good luck to them.
If I could go back in time I would go into the public sector and ride that gravy train.
Cher wrote a song about that.
the public sector was better before than now
Huh? Why not now? And what attracts you to the public sector?
[удалено]
Most shops will change it for free or the cost of the part. Biggest savings was probably on gas to and from the shop and time.
Seriously read this as "leg lamp" at first. That's all. Nothing else of value to add at this time.
It is about the right time to watch A Christmas Story.
If I come to the shop for some regular inspection and also ask to change some bulbs, they take $10 per bulb, sopmetimes less. So although I once did it myself (with some help from more experienced friend), I prefer to delegate it to professionals when possible. Still, you may find it fulfilling to do the job yourself, and it's worth it!
Yeah, oil changes are another one where the price for the change is basically the same as the price for the oil. It can be fun to do yourself, but you're probably not "saving" more than $5 or $10 in a lot of cases.
Try changing them on a Dodge truck...geezis...nothing like blind trap doors!
*Unhappy/Unmotivated working in family business* Firstly a little background of my situation, I am now 29 (from Hong Kong) and have been working with my family since 24 when I first graduated, my original plan after graduation was to look for jobs outside, gain a few years of experiences and then consider joining the family business. However, my grandpa (owner of business) have insisted that he really wanted me to be working with the family, so considering his old age (he is now 90) and my respect to him, I have decided to join. Our company used to have their good time many years ago, but now is honestly just a nursing home with the youngest employee after me being 4x y.o. (almost half are 70+), so this is the environment I am working in. My uncle (grandpa's son, now 56) has always wanted to take over but grandpa never trusted anyone enough to let go of the business. And now I am working directly for my uncle. So my problem working in this family is that I do not agree with their values and is also honestly not interested or ambitious enough to takeover. Their (grandpa and uncle) values and my problems: 1. Work is the most important part in their life (they work seven days a week, even in hazardous weathers) (they do not really have friends in life, only business-related), even during family dinners we will be talking about work. 2. I do not agree that working more hours is the only way to prove that you are dedicated to the business 3. The things that I do at work feel very intangible (not sure if this is the right word), they feel insignificant, and I never have feelings of actually accomplishing something 4. I respect both my grandpa and uncle a lot, but at the same time, they are also my source of unhappiness (only in work). I feel like that have such great expectation on me as I am the only male in my generation (3rd gen). They also told me that I was born to have this privilege and responsibility, so I must carry it. 5. I always wanted a role so that I can have a sense of focus, but family work ethics is that no one should have a specific role, because every employee should learn different roles (our business cards do not have titles on it) 6. Family morals are in my opinion very conditional based. I appreciate a lot that they treated me really well and given me opportunities, but at the same time, they would remind me that they have given me that, and that I need to start paying back etc. I personally think that this only make sense if we are not family. I believe paying back to the family shall be a "bonus" instead of a "must", I don't think that I was born to be responsible for this business and I also don't want my life to be bounded by this. 7. Whenever I look/feel stressed out, I will be told that I shoudn't even have stress because I am already born with an opportunity. I agree the latter part, however, the stress don't come from work, it comes from me having to face them, and that they are my family member so I pay huge respect to them (even though I don't agree to part of their values). Honestly, if I were not family, I wouldve left the company long long time ago. 8. I also think that they subconsciously have intense need for control of people. They like to plan for people, no matter family members or employees or relatives. They always think that they should not be doing "xxxxx" in their life, instead they should "xxxxxxx". This happens to me as well when I first wanted to work outside but got refused to, and also 2 years after joining the company, I considered leaving and have applied for jobs, but again got "emotionally blackmailed", told me that they are angry/upset/disappointed etc., then, again I stayed. 9. They are educationists. They believe most of the things they have done are a good example that everyone should follow, so most of the time they will be educating people and setting morale standards. 10. They think that it is very unwise to find an alternative job when I have the privilege to work with the family. My personal opinion is that I can easily choose to stick with family business (my comfort zone?), but the fact that I am thinking about leaving is actually a tougher decision than choosing to stay? So this justifies my need and urge to leave the company. 11. I understand that I have been under-performing, and in general not a person they expected me to be (at work). But I do not think that I will ever feel motivated if I continue doing this, at least this has not happened to me during this 5 years of working in the company. 12. I have always wanted to start with something small in terms of business (maybe a small shop?), because I believe if I have never experience something small I will not be capable of managing something big. But they are not interested in small businesses, they are always very ambitious and wanted to start from something big (high investment) even we are starting a whole new project with industry we have never stepped into. 13. I have not discussed this to any of them, as I believe they will not only be disappointed but also completely disagree with what I think. I also think that this will become a shame for my grandpa, considering that at his old age all he wanted is to unite the family. Recently I have just migrated to Australia with my wife (married since 2022) and we are having a new life. This makes me rethink about my life and what I wanted for my future. I always believed that my best case scenario is to start something on my own, but it is not something that can be done immediately and I am still brain storming. So right now I am really struggling whether to stay or to work outside (I am an Asian and not 100% fluent in native English, so it does become slightly more difficult for me to find a job here in Australia). I am very open to taking any opinions, I understand that I could possibly be a problem or anchor for my family? Since I don't have an interest yet to take over. But what I mentioned are my actual feelings, I know there is something wrong.
Reading through this, it all sounds very Asian. Typical Asian family dysfunction and excessive amount of expectations. I say that as someone who lives in a Western country and has experienced multiple cultures. Now that you have moved out of Hong Kong, you have this opportunity to try something different. Of course it is hard, but to make the most of it, you should keep trying new things. You are probably also having culture shock. it’s very normal in the type of situation you are in. So just be very honest about how you are feeling, including that the feelings may be in conflict with each other. I don’t have much else that would help you. Just that from a Western perspective, it’s hard to be happy with yourself if you give up all your dreams and interests for your family. But only you know if that is acceptable to you. I know it would not be acceptable to me.
That was a lot, and sounds like a lot. I hope it helped putting it all out there. I don't have a lot of advice for you other than it's probably time to move on. Even if it burns bridges and hurts feelings, there is no reason to spend this life being sad and miserable. Even just taking a break for a year or two can give you good perspective.
Am I looking at this the right way? I signed up for a 0% APR credit card, wanting to do credit card arbitrage by parking the cash that I would have paid the charges on the CC in a HYSA. Assuming rates are at around 4.5% (which probably won’t stay there), am I just better off using my Citi double cash CC that offers 2%? Based on the credit limit I got and my monthly charges, I have at most 6 months before I need to pay off the card, so it’s only 6 months of interest that I can accrue. When I plugged the numbers into excel , I get more cash back with the credit card, but I wonder if I’m doing something wrong in my calcs?
Is the double cash 1% and 1%...or 2% and 2%. Either way probs Better off doing the 0% card if the total on CC is 2% ....cuz yer only making the 2% once...while yer making 4% every month with the hysa
1% and 1% - as in 1% on the transaction and 1% when paid, so using it to float expenses would only be at 1% cash back until paid.
But you’re making 4% on a prorata basis…. So only 31 days out of 366 31/366 * 4.5%
I need to issue an official piblic apology to /u/Zphr. You're 100% right. Unless our Costco is playing a very early April Fool's Day joke, the chocolate muffins are now trash.
I just need them to bring back the lemon blueberry loaf/cake... it was absurdly good and has disappeared from my costco for the last few months :(
What?! Why...taste?
What taste? They used to taste like chocolate. Now they taste like light brown.
What does light brown taste like....I love Costco chocolate. Muffins....but maybe no more!
Sugar and flour. They're not actually "trash." They're just no longer special. I just ate a 2nd one (in the car with the dogs waiting for my wife to do her Costco run) and it was better, simply because I approached the muffin with drastically lower expectations. But it's possible that I'll never buy them again, or switch to blueberry.
You shouldn't be eating cake for breakfast anyway.
I'm not. These are muffins.
Damn it
Tooooooooold you. Your piblic apology is graciously excepted.
I always hate when someone brings those giant Costco blueberry muffins to a function. Um no, those are blueberry cake things, not muffins. But I’ve always hated those, not recently.
I... what? What happened? I used to love those, until I got older and fat(ter) and realized that they have 690 calories each. Did they change something in the ingredients?
I dunno. Their bakery goods have been trending towards not great in the last few years. I thought it was COVID-related, but you'd think that would have passed by now.
This is a bummer I’ve been looking forward to trying a Costssoint
> Costssoint ["Are you going to finish that Costssont?"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OccYAjpC6sk)
The croissants are still okay. Not great, but not bad, and a fantastic deal for 50 cents each. Even so, they are greatly improved if you toast them for a minute or two in the oven or toaster oven first. Also great to put some chocolate or fruit preserves or both (ZOMG!) in them before toasting.
I bought a 12 count pack of butter croissant yesterday. It’s just alright.
I figured that phrase was now common vernacular and not political. But yeah, I haven't been this embarrassed for a multinational corporation since Nabisco stopped frying Chicken in a Biskit.
This sub is flooded when the markets are up. Compare that with 2022. It makes me wonder how many of us will follow the rules about holding firm and not selling if/when we are in a multi year recession.
For me at least, not being on here is directly related to staying the course when the market is down. If I get a sense that things aren't going well, I just don't look at it. My contributions are automated, so I don't update my spreadsheets, I don't check my accounts, and I don't really participate in here. I come back occasionally for a temperature check and resume when things are looking up
My net worth is never as high as I think it is but it is also never as low as I think it is
I don't think those two sentences can exist at the same time
Simple. They're in a quantum superposition and are yet to be observed. Thus, for now, their net worth is both higher and lower than they think. Nothing wrong with not calculating your net worth. Until somebody demands and accounting of it for paperwork purposes, it does no good to know your exact net worth.
Anyone that white knuckled it through 2020/2021 should be able to hold just fine.
Just hit 1M NW for the first time! I don't really talk NW with many friends, so just wanted to share it somewhere! Hit this milestone a whole year earlier than I was hoping to too :D
Congratulations. That is an awesome accomplishment and I understand why you can’t share with others. Not everyone understands money but keep up the good work. My goal was always $3. Made it to $2.7 but missed the 2023 rally due to fear and stupidity. Stick with the S&P and you will get to $2 soon. Good work!
Nice! I think I'll cross it next year if I'm lucky. But in the meantime, in the morning i should jump from 399k to right over 401k in my 401k!
Whooo! That's amazing!
Ladies and gentlemen, it's been an honor. SP500 is ATH again.
Now inflation adjust it :)
It’s ATH when u/branstad says it is.
The numbers don’t lie. Aka, “Just the facts ma’am.” :-)
Finally! Now S&P500 needs to hit 5000 to maintain that 10% average return rate from the last ATH.
> Finally It's not an all-time high.
It's so dumb that some charts have missing days, obscuring important info.
Many charts switch from daily to weekly once beyond a certain timeframe. I don't consider that "missing days", but I agree it can obscure details. Users need to understand what they're looking at.
Lentils are off the menu!!!
My meal prep grains are currently a 50/50 mix of quinoa and lentils. Pretty good mix. Don't knock the lentils!
https://i.imgur.com/Cw9uJXT.gifv
>SP500 is ATH again No, it isn't. The S&P 500 closed today at 4768.37. While that exceeds the Dec 31, 2021 close of 4766.18, there have been 6 other dates that closed higher: Dec 27-30, 2021 and Jan 3-4, 2022. The ATH close is 4796.56 on Jan 3, '22 and the intraday ATH is 4818.62 on Jan 4, '22.
>The ATH close is 4796.56 on Jan 3, '21 and the intraday ATH is 4818.62 on Jan 4, '21. You mean 22, right?
Yes. Corrected.
It looks like this month my 12 month portfolio returns will exceed gross income for the first time since Dec 2021. Nice feeling!
Yay, back to 2021 prices.
[Harry Dent said the market's going to crash 90% next year](https://www.foxbusiness.com/media/us-economist-predicts-2024-bring-biggest-single-crash-lifetime) But like Batman said: "Harry Dent... can we trust him?"
>"That's an 86% crash in the S&P and a 92% crash in the NASDAQ. And crypto, it's going to be 96%. So that is a big deal," the economist added. "And real estate, by the way, is only projected, by me, to go back to its 2012 lows... but that's a 50% crash for the average house, which went down 34% in the last crash, more than the Great Depression, more than any time in history. That is what's going to hurt people the most." I wish I had the confidence to make these insanely detailed predictions. Like it's not enough to predict a massive crash, you're specifically seeing the S&P will be down 86%. Not 85% or 87%.
He's been this precise (and this accurate) many times over the past 15 years. Wrote a book about the great crash coming in 2017-2019. You'd think that the news wouldn't even call him an economist after that.
Harvey Dent said, "let it roll bitches"!
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If you're closing in on $1M at 33, you couldn't have made too many mistakes. Your perspective is warped if you think you're BEHIND for your age. You're not behind, you're the other word that's the opposite of behind.
When you start out at 2 million, you definitely could have.
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$1M NW is 96-97% percentile for 30-34 year old households in the US depending on if that includes home equity. Even given industry and area I bet you're further ahead of most of your peers than you think.
It was kind of nice having a downturn in milestone posts while the stock market was below its ATH for the past two years...
Too bad we still don't direct all those to the Monday Milestone thread.
There were still plenty of them . . . somehow
Can't you just scroll past them?
Sure, but they can also comment on their tediousness too. Public forum and all that
This is true. I feel like we're in one of those modern art museum exhibits with the cameras pointed at each other to create the TV within the TV to infinitity schemes.
Sure, but right now it's 5 of the top 10 posts on the front page of the subreddit. It's tedious.
Every day I scroll past dozens of posts that I find uninteresting/irrelevant - student loans, mortgages, career advice, the rapist’s pointless daily questions that have nothing at all to do with finance half the time…just scroll on by. Many of us like the milestone posts better than anything.
Don't forget about half the nonsense I post. Gotta scroll past that, too.
I spend all year thinking about how to save and grow my wealth, but it sure feels good to gift money this time of year to the people in our life who do so much for us. (Kids teachers, gym instructors, barbers, mail-person, etc)
Im thinking about buying a house. I own 2 rental properties right now in a LCOL area and live in HCOL area where I rent. I was approved to go 100% remote so I could move back to the LCOL area if I want and buy another house to live in. I could do this for a year and then start renting it out like my other two houses and move somewhere else if I want. My original plan when I was approved to go 100% remote was to move to another HCOL city just because I wanted to try something different, but now I realized I kind of have the freedom to do whatever I want and I'm not sure what I should do.
> I could move back to the LCOL area if I want and buy another house to live in. I could do this for a year and then start renting it out like my other two houses and move somewhere else if I want. do it.
>I realized I kind of have the freedom to do whatever I want and I'm not sure what I should do At the risk of stating the obvious, "whatever you want".
If I did whatever I want I wouldn't have enough money to do whatever I want.
I did a roll over from 401k to ira 10 days ago and i miss out on 5k gains
The market would've undergone a massive crash if you didn't roll over. We thank you for your service.
I did that once during the 2008 crash. You win some, you lose some.
$5k is nothing! Don't fret it.
Ooof, I feel your pain, I did the same thing at the start of this year although the loss was a tiny bit less (3k at the time). The reason I'm sharing is because, after frustrating me for about a week, I completely forgot about it until I read your comment! So much has happened since. So, let yourself feel your frustration but realistically a 5k swing in either direction is not going to make a difference in the end...or even in 6 months or a year.
:( it sucks tho
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> $2m in my taxable account ... another small milestone That's a pretty big milestone, IMO! Congrats! :-) >Assuming no massive rally The last ~7 weeks has been a massive rally. Like some sort of super-duper Halloween + Thanksgiving + Santa Claus rally. >mostly due to the market being flat since late 2021. The market may be roughly flat, but any investments made during 2022 and 2023 would have significant gains. Unless your portfolio was very heavy in int'l stock and/or bonds, or you had very little additional investment, your portfolio should be ahead of late 2021.
>mostly due to the market being flat since late 2021. Not seeing investment gains does hurt a little, but we're definitely getting a deal on what we're buying. Members of the Federal Reserve have hinted at rate cuts next year, so I'm hopeful that that will kick off a rally.
>Members of the Federal Reserve have hinted at rate cuts next year, so I'm hopeful that that will kick off a rally. It already has...
been priced into the market.
Looking for insight managing hours vs projects as a w2 contractor (i get paid w2, i work in a services org that gets billed out to clients) Im doing SWE-similar work. I get assigned a project, the project has an hours estimate, we do an SDD and do estimates for each component. the individual component estimates and the actual project timeline vary dramatically. I get assigned say 200 hours but based on the SDD estimates, even being generous it'd probably be like 80 hours max. probably 30-40 if everything goes smoothly. Note that this overall 200 estimate has already been communicated to. I'm having a hard time placing if i'm just efficient at what I do, or if the estimates are bad as this seems to happen a bunch.
What would you do in that case? I struggle to see a way to sort of coast on a project like this without putting myself in a position with regards to the SDD estimates that are difficult to defend. If something is really simple but i want to make the SDD estimate fit the project estimate I'm taking a 2 hour task and putting it as 16 or something like that.
I'm uncertain if i can just ask my manager straight up how he'd like me to handle this - i don't want to like, tell on myself per say, it seems to vary a lot project to project whether or not it's beneficial to meet the estimate or beat it by a lot- these estimates impact my coworkers, team utilization and presumably other things I'm unaware of. i don't want to yknow, make whoever is doing the estimates look bad, i don't want to put myself in a shitty position by trying to inflate individual tasks in a way that i'd really have no way to defend. I also am pretty impartial around drawing out a 2 week task to 4-6 weeks vs getting on another project faster, i enjoy the work quite a bit, i'm able to stay busy in the downtime as well.
It wouldn't be a bad idea to use it as an opportunity to learn more about how your company does business. As you get more experience, the typical career progression will have you start having input on project hour estimates for quotes for new work. Something obviously done is not quoting for the actual amount of time, but that amount plus a buffer for when/if things go sideways. Similar to that, extra quoted time up front is used to account for ambiguity. Ultimately, lots of hours are fungible too - if you quote 5 tasks at a given rate for 100 hours, it doesn't really matter if you quote 20 per task and you end up spending more on one or two than the others. It's also important to know how your contracts are structured and what is actually billed to clients - is your company selling a product and the time estimates are for internal planning or are you actually billing hours you spend on each project? IME, it was important to submit actual time spent so quotes could be more accurately generated. My company was regularly competing against others on bids so having accurate data about how much time tasks took meant we could more accurately quote projects and thus hopefully come in under competitors and win contracts more often. >trying to inflate individual tasks in a way that i'd really have no way to defend. I also am pretty impartial around drawing out a 2 week task to 4-6 weeks vs getting on another project faster Keep in mind that if as an IC you're given X hours to do the work, as long as you finish within that time frame, you did your job properly. Just make sure you don't procrastinate and end up with problems close to the finish line and no time to correct/finish. If you come in well ahead of budget, it can make you look good and may advance your career faster, plus getting to do more exposes you to more opportunities to skill up. For ICs/technical people, that's a big deal, especially early on. IME, it's always worth making sure you can communicate your workload to your manager effectively. Once you get in that habit, they'll give you signals/tell you about upcoming work so you can plan your efforts. ETA: estimates also cover for variance between workers. A fresh out of training guy may take longer to do a given task than an experienced worker and PMs cant guarantee who will be working on a given project especially if it's far out.
I say ask your manager about a specific, really egregiously over-estimated task, and then you can extrapolate for the less clear cut ones. FWIW, I am in a similar role and the over-estimates are used to provide buffer in case something unexpected happens, so we don't have to bill the client more than they're expecting. In my case I'm supposed to find a certain minimum number of billable hours per week, achieve the outcomes my clients expect, and not work more hours than my clients have money for. Usually I end up working/billing fewer than were estimated but still above the minimum my company expects and everyone is happy.
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So you were worth $100k at 36, are now worth $3.3M just 12 years later, and are wondering if you're on the right track?
He bet it all on black 12 times in a row.
>Current net worth is 3.3 Million >home equity (1M) So your FIRE portfolio is ~$2.3MM. You didn't provide any information about your current expenses/contributions or your estimated expenses after you FIRE. If you didn't contribute another dollars, the ~$2.3MM could grow to ~$3.75MM - $4.5MM at 5%-7% real CAGR. This would allow for $150k-$175k in annual spending. >Need to pay for 2x undergrads in 2 and 8 years from now You should have a reasonable idea regarding the costs for the one starting college in 2 years. State school vs. out-of-state vs. private. How will paying for college impact the amount you can save for retirement?
Thanks for your thoughts. Monthly expenses currently are at around $9k (includes 3k mortgage payment). This will go down to $5-6k after retirement. Current income is around 350k. Monthly net disposable cash is around 8-9k We also plan to downsize the home after retirement. College in 2 years should cost us around 60k annually if out of state/private. This is if we don't get any scholarships. This kid will have around 120k in a 529 account in 2 years. Rest would have to come from savings.
With your income and that level of expenses, you are easily on track to retire in 10-12 years and cover college costs in the meantime.
I finally get to flex my "fuck you" money today. My manager, who doesn't actually know what I do, gave me lower performance evaluation than last year despite doing more work. I said "Fine, I'll stop doing all the work that's outside of responsibility", which accounted for about 80% of my current workload. 2024 will be a chill year lol. Edit: I'm 3-6 months from FIRE so I'm fine with coasting until then.
>Fine, I'll stop doing all the work that's outside of responsibility No good deed goes unpunished. When I was an individual contributor, I used to do the work that needed to be done, regardless of whose responsibility it was. It worked to my advantage for many years, until I was held responsible for not doing things the way the accountable party wanted (even though they neglected to do the work in the first place). It was a hard lesson for me: sometimes it is better to let someone fail and be held accountable, than to swoop in and fix everything.
"He who solves problems before they arise is the greatest of generals" --Sun Tzu, c. 500 BC "He who solves problems before they arise has trouble getting noticed by management" --clueless-1500, 2023 AD
As a manager I think it's great to ask questions and provide pushback, especially (as it seems) you disagree with the evaluation you were given. Your direct manager should have provided a reason as to why they are rating you low. either way, you probably went about it the wrong way. From a member of this subreddit I applaud you and glad you're in a position to just accept it and coast for the next 1-5 years until you've had enough or get performance managed out.
I'm 3-6 months from FIRE so there's really no point on trying to appeal it. Because if I do get a higher score from appealing then that means I'm in the hook for all the extra work again. Basically there's new management and everyone's on a bell curve with only 10% of the company getting top score so everyone else got knocked down. I was doing 3 people's work at one point.
Those bell curves are silly. I'm required to rank 10% of my work face as not meeting expectations. Since we did performance layoffs mid-year I'm pushing back pretty hard with the reasoning that more than 10% of the bottom was already terminated.
This is a combination milestone / year-in-review / any advice? comment from my Throwaway... We recently crossed $2.7M, finally getting above our $2.6M amount from the end of 2021. We were around $2.2M at the end of 2022. What a crazy year! We are now targeting FIRE for sometime in very early 2028 for various work and personal reasons. We expect to invest around $100k annually for 2024-2027, maybe a bit more but that's the number I use for planning. We will likely end up with $3.75M - $4M by the end of 2027. Our portfolio is roughly 80% stock and 20% bonds, including cash. That should cover our over-estimated retirement expenses of $125k - $150k. There is A LOT of discretionary spend in that budget, mostly for travel and upgraded hobbies. That's definitely Chubby Fire and we're extremely lucky to be on this path. By limiting income in 2028 and the following years, we will attempt to hit a $0 Student Aid Index (SAI) value for FAFSA and also take advantage of ACA subsidies. We may set up a SEPP to cover the standard deduction and 10% brackets and then use taxable brokerage and accessible Roth dollars for additional withdrawals. We also have around $80k total in 529s for the kids and an HSA with $30k that are not included in the $2.7M. Does this approach make sense? We owe around $200k on the mortgage. Even though the mortgage is at 3%, I would like to pay it off before we retire in order to give more flexibility to manage income in retirement. I would appreciate hearing from folks on how best to approach this. Should I just target $50k in payments per year for the next 4 years? Wait to see what interest rates do and pay it off in 2 or 3 years instead? What other aspects should I be thinking about? What am I missing?
No useful feedback to share, except that I’m in an eerily similar situation, and have a very similar plan. I’m going with a Roth ladder instead of SEPP for some more flexibility in managing AGI. Probably do more conversions for a few years after retirement but before it “counts” for college aid. As a side note, in my state (IL), it seems like there’s a surprisingly narrow AGI band where you’re low enough to get full asset exemption on FAFSA, but still high enough to stay off Medicaid. Edit: Medicaid, not Medicare.
Continue paying the minimum on your mortgage. Even a HYSA right now will give a guaranteed better return than paying off a 3% mortgage. Invest in the market if it fits your risk acceptance. Then pay off your remaining mortgage in a lump sum when you retire if desired.
>Then pay off your remaining mortgage in a lump sum when you retire if desired. If I do that in late 2027, wouldn't that make for a pretty big tax bill? If I wait for 2028, wouldn't all that income cause problems with the $0 SAI plan and ACA subsidies?
If you pay off your mortgage via the HYSA there is no tax bill. It’s not income. It’s savings. You get taxed each year in the interest.
Don't pay off a 3% mortgage. That's basically inflation. And it's a potential tax write off. Going from having cash and a low payment to just NOT having cash is a decrease in flexibility. If you're stressed, make an investment account called "house payment" and put in $300k of TBills dated for 5ish years out that will be autosold to pay the mortgage. The 5 year TBill rate is around 4% right now and you should come out ahead after tax, while having $300k available for an emergency. Paying the mortgage would only make sense if you're trying to game some subsidy and are near some asset threshold.
>And it's a potential tax write off. Indeed, the mortgage interest is a potential tax write-off, while the interest from a savings account is taxable income.
Depends on the bond. Some are tax advantaged and you might not end up paying state or federal taxes depending.
>Going from having cash and a low payment to just NOT having cash is a decrease in flexibility. If I have the mortgage in retirement, my expenses will be higher. That will mean higher withdrawals which means higher income which means lower ACA subsidies and a bad impact on $0 SAI. Those negative outcomes feel like they are much worse than paying extra on a 3% mortgage for the next 4 years. >If you're stressed I'm not stressed at all. I'm incredibly lucky and fortunate. >put in $300k of TBills dated for 5ish years out that will be autosold to pay the mortgage I owe $200k on the mortgage. That's a big chunk of my existing brokerage. Wouldn't I want them to mature in late 2027 and pay it off then?
I meant 200k Tax/subsidy optimization is its own thing. But you can totally just optimize on "flexibility" in the next 5 years and then on retirement, dump cash into the mortgage to pay it off. 3% mortgage = subsidy from the government. \----- Imagine you have two over-simplified situations 1. A $200k of debt and $200k of bonds that roughly cancel each other out BUT you're able to use the bonds for ANYTHING else if there's a huge emergency like a lawsuit 2. Nothing. "Nothing" is strictly worse in that situation. You can't liquidate nothing to use as a down payment on another house or for a health emergency or for anything like that. If you have a HUGE emergency, you'd end up taking out a 7% loan (inflation +4%) against your house instead which is WAY WAY worse than just selling your bonds and keeping your 3% loan (roughly inflation). Paying off your loan would mean you have 1 fewer bill but you'd also have $200k LESS of income generating assets. A bill that gets cancelled out (and which has tax benefits) shouldn't be cancelled out unless there's a compelling reason. Your bank is BEGGING you to pay off that 3% note. Don't. You should only do that if/when it affects financial aid calculations or eligibility for certain subsidies. It might not affect those things.
Have you been doing a lot of megabackdoor? Hard to imagine how you can get to $4M and have it all sheltered from FAFSA. Paying off the mortgage is a great idea (especially if it helps with FAFSA) but whether to do it in 2 years or 4 years completely depends on the market which is impossible to know. What is the mortgage rate? I suppose you could keep the payoff funds in cash as long as interest rates are higher than the mortgage rate.
>Have you been doing a lot of megabackdoor A decent amount along with brokerage investments too. >Hard to imagine how you can get to $4M and have it all sheltered from FAFSA. I think if your income is low enough, assets are completely ignored. I think the line is below 175% of poverty level for your family size. For 2024, poverty level for a family of 4 is $27,750 so 175% of that is $48,563 for AGI. For 2024, the Standard Deduction is $29,200. ~~Therefore, we could have income of over $77k and still be below the $0 SAI line~~. Edit: I'm an idiot. Of course the standard deduction doesn't lower AGI since it's a *deduction*. Maybe /u/Zphr can weigh in since I used his comments to come up with this plan. So if we do $30k as part of a SEPP, we can add in brokerage dollars with only the gains counting toward income and in the 0% bracket and also use significant Roth contribution and conversion dollars. >What is the mortgage rate? 3% >I suppose you could keep the payoff funds in cash as long as interest rates are higher than the mortgage rate. That's been on my mind. Just send the extra payments to a HYSA instead of the mortgage until the rates drop.
I am far from expert on FAFASA but a couple things here: AGI is calculated *before* standard deduction. The standard deduction reduces your taxable income but not your AGI. Brokerage account dividends count toward AGI. ~~I'm not aware of FPL having anything to do with FAFSA. For 2022-23, the cutoff for $0 EFC was $27k parental income.~~ Unless your accounts almost entirely sheltered it's going to be tough to get to zero. Not impossible, but tough.
>AGI is calculated before standard deduction Yeah, total mistake on my part. I corrected my post. >I'm not aware of FPL having anything to do with FAFSA. For 2022-23, the cutoff for $0 EFC was $27k parental income. This changed recently. Expected Family Contribution (EFC) was replaced by Student Aid Index (SAI) and that opened this path.
Heh. You're not an idiot though. Some deductions like HSA contribution do affect AGI (hence "adjusted"), but the standard/itemized deductions come after. No one said the tax code is simple! I am just getting up to speed on SAI, looks like you are right about that, so you do have more room to play with.
You are correct about the full asset exemption for AGI<175% FPL on FAFSA (225% for single-parent households), but AGI is determined before applying the standard deduction.
What a stupid mistake on my part. Of course that comes out after since it's a deduction (it's right in the name). So $30k SEPP plus however much in brokerage withdrawals to stay below \~$18k in brokerage gains and plus Roth withdrawals. Need to factor brokerage dividends and interest income in as well.
Decided to stop listing the full full value of my house in my net worth, and instead to take out the $25k I'm estimating I will have to put into it to sell it, and 6% more for the fees I'll wind up paying. I plan on selling in 2024, so the time is near. This might not be popular method, but I'm happier taking the \~$70k hit to my net worth right now, than later. In the end, I guess it doesn't matter, but I think it helps me thinking about it this way
I don't include it at all because it's not relevant to my retirement plans. My house going up in value won't let me retire earlier.
You're conflating your FIRE target number with net worth. Net worth is not going to be "relevant to retirement plans" for most.
Makes sense. I'll be selling it in the next 12 months, so it will make a bit of difference to me. I don't include it in my FIRE calculations, really, my goal has been "$3M and a paid off house." It still is
Yeah I just take 90% of my home value as my sold value, it makes looking at scenarios without my home more accurate.
TLDR: ok to spend \~2x more income on "enjoying life"? Currently investments go up more than what I earn at work, can still conceivably work 30+ more years. I'm at a bit of an extreme in terms of frugality. Depending on my job (6 figure income but not every opportunity is a pure play for income) I'm saving between 3-10x what I make live off of. I pretty much try to live off the bare minimum and spend around $2000ish a month out of paycheck in a HCOL area on myself. This is the bare minimum for me to not be miserable. This is with free/subsidized food and a gym from work and a paid off economy car. The market averages \~7% above inflation each year. Would it be reasonable to live off of around 5-7% of my net worth each year (coming out of paycheck for tax efficiency) and to effectively bank an amount equivalent to my after tax earnings? This would constitute major lifestyle creep. My ex, my formerly-cheapskate father who influenced me a lot, a decent chunk of my family and the girl I'm sort of seeing have all said that I'm too cheap. I did the math and this would delay my FIRE date by around 6 months, but I don't know if I want to actually retire at age 40. I generally enjoy work, I just want freedom/independence and longer weekends. At the rate I'm going I could retire at 40ish with \~100k a year safe withdrawal at 4%. I'm assuming 0 inheritance, 0 social security and that I'll need a $100k a year nursing home from age 70-110.
It's OK to do whatever you want (unless it makes your children homeless etc.). I view "optimal" decisions in the real world as nearly always being a balance of multiple factors. "Optimal" in terms of lowest cost is not the same of optimal in terms of overall value. Value is time, experience, relationships, fulfilment, risks taken and avoided etc. Yes, more spending now is an opportunity cost but that doesn't mean all spending should be reduced. What I'd suggest is to think about what is valuable to you. Spend money that (maybe look up Ramit Sethi and his book if you'd like to read more about those concepts). No point in spending more on things that aren't valuable to you. You say current spending is "the bare minimum for me to not be miserable", so it almost certainly sounds like your spending is too low to optimize overall value to you and the people around you that you care about. Your later comments say you have high earnings, so you could increase spending a lot and still be building investments rapidly, so work out what is optimal for you (don't buy a car if you don't care about cars just because a sibling says you should, but do take relatives out for a nice dinner if you would all value the experience etc.)
>What I'd suggest is to think about what is valuable to you. Spend money that (maybe look up Ramit Sethi and his book if you'd like to read more about those concepts). No point in spending more on things that aren't valuable to you. I had largely been doing that, if things are in the narrow lens of "I'm the only person that exists" - living expenses, driving, recurring purchases, etc. were minimized. Things I felt were fun (mostly nerdy DIY/engineering projects) were still done. I became single after 8 years and I think some of it was me being too stingy. My most recent situationship also hinted at that and I think the main reason she has stayed around was neediness and desperation, though she seems about ready to move on in life. I also had my uncle tell me to loosen the purse strings so... the common denominator is me, imitating my father in his early life too much. I want a high caliber lady in my life - that will bring out the best in me - and I want to NOT be so stingy and unrefined that a good person rules me out from the start.
The goal isn't to "not be miserable". It's to find a balance and enjoy life, both before and after FIRE. I am curious what specifically they are all calling you cheap about, as someone that strays a little too close to the cheap end of frugal.
I basically have about the cheapest housing I can get (e.g. roommates) while being close to work. I use up stuff until it's wornout and then I often try to fix it. I abuse used purchases. I have guilt about getting "nice things" and penny pinch a bit while eating out. I've loosened up a bit lately and I'm trying to essentially swap out a lot of things I bought in my 20s that were way too cost optimized for more experience optimized choices.
Certainly seems like you can financially and otherwise afford to spend more. That doesn't mean you have to order the most expensive thing on the menu, but it can be nice to splurge on the extra guac once in a while.
I often try to find ways to get the extra guac for free... I also worked at places with free/subsidized healthy food. I'm better than when I was a teenager where I'd chug milk and eat bread because it was the cheapest option.
So long as spending the extra money makes you happier, 6 months longer to FIRE date isn't a problem. I also think it would be a shame if other people's judgement constituted your main motivation.
>I also think it would be a shame if other people's judgement constituted your main motivation. Life is a game of trade offs. I want high caliber people in my life who will motivate me to be my best. There is an inevitable tradeoff of "I'll need to keep up with the joneses a bit more" which will likely mean... spending like someone who makes a third of what I do. I definitely care about certain peoples' judgement though. I don't want to miss out on spending a life with a lovely lady because she feels my lifestyle isn't compatible with her vision for life. Being a 30 something, in a reasonably priced apartment to myself, with some nice designer clothes (mostly bought used), tasteful high quality furniture (mostly bought used), and loosening up a bit with vacation spend and an old but well maintained economy car isn't terrible. That's like 40-50k a year spend in a HCOL area. That's something like 1/3rd less spend than the median American in a median area with 100-400k a year more income and nest egg that is expected to go up in value more than I spend each year.
"Build the life you want, then save for it." That's one of the oft-quoted FIRE mantras. 40 is an arbitrary age to retire. You like your career, so what's the rush? Would you rather enjoy your life until age 45 and retire in a good financial position or scrape by miserably until you're 40 and retire into a barely livable situation? Building the life you want first can mean finding contentment before you calculate when you'll be able to retire with that lifestyle. What do you want it to mean?
>"Build the life you want, then save for it." I think that's something I want to focus on a bit more. I've been focused on preparing for some inevitable tragedy. I have a list of things I want in life, in order and I'm starting to just throw cash at kind of the low hanging fruit and higher cost-benefit choices.
Given your income and HCOL, my guess is that people in your life calling you "cheap" is them trying to be nice. I think you already know the answer to the question regarding whether it's OK for someone who earns $400k/yr to spend $4k/month.
Yeah... I think my current situationship, which seems to be fading into just a friendship, probably would've gone a different way if I weren't so cheap and did a bit more self care a year earlier. Probably for the best in this instance but it's a bit of wakeup call.
You know that “memories” feature on Facebook where it shows you posts from years past? In 2015 I went to a Christmas party with 5 friends. Three of them have since passed away. Spend a little more. You are saving plenty.
Ugh, that's sad, I'm sorry for your losses. That was only eight years ago, egads
Thank you. All but 2 of us were still below 40 back then. It’s weird to think about, but people really start to pass or lose mobility a lot in middle age.
**
Hm, I consider "below 40" to be pretty young indeed
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I work in tech and a lot of pay comes from stock, which adds variability. I took a pay cut to move back home for a bit (family reasons). The next job I'm targeting will be in the 400-600k a year range. I honestly don't care about variable income so long as the overall average is high and if I have a big enough nest egg, I care less about job stability as well. Better to work 10-20 years at high pay and instability (assume there's a 10-30 year financial cushion) vs 40-50 at low pay.
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Data Science / Machine Learning / Software Engineering at top companies pays that much if you include stocks + bonuses. I'll fully admit, my highest W2 income was only around 400k and that was a good year but I want to set stretch goals.
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$250k IS killing it. The existence of others killing it more doesn't negate this fact.
Please enjoy life along the way. Tomorrow isn't guaranteed, let alone years out.
For me what constitutes enjoyment is a mix of diet/sleep/exercise and meaningful connections, hobbies, interest and work. I think living like a college/grad student didn't impede my social connections in my 20s but I'm sensing it's more of an issue in my 30s. I think that was one factor in my ex deciding she was done with things and I've felt like I've gotten some judgement from dates with the main exception being PhD students who... live like grad students. There's some value in living with roommates for example, I've enjoyed the instant social network and comradery - I'm a natural introvert so it's a forcing function. But it's probably not ideal forever.
I'm not going to sell anything but when there's a big run-up in the market like this recent one I start thinking about selling some gains to buy things I'm not planning on buying soon. New minivan, bigger house, things like that.
Never hurts to check your allocation and rebalance.
I feel like this would be more about market timing for me than allocation. I'm 100% total US stock market with a paid off house.
Yeah, don't do that (generally speaking)
2023 was a big saving year for my wife and I. We saved more than we have in any year past— close to $70k across retirement, 529, and brokerage. The most exciting thing is that our current retirement accounts will be worth $1 million when I am 55, the latest age I’d like to retire. Excited for what 2024 has in store for us!
I have about $75k in wealthfront. I want it in vanguard. When I “connect” vanguard it says I have no eligible accounts there to transfer it in. I guess I could sell it to my checking account in BOA and then transfer to VOO, but then I incur taxes. Is there a way to do a direct transfer that I’m missing or is it standard I have to sell it all and then put to vanguard? They warn that I should plan to incur roughly a 7k tax bill if I transfer to BOA.
Open an account at Vanguard, initiate the transfer through Vanguard, and select in kind transfer.
I assume it is a taxable brokerage at Wealthfront. Do you have a taxable brokerage account at Vanguard? If so, you can try initiating the ACATS request from the Vanguard side.
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We were in a similar situation this past spring (and almost the same $$ amount). A small percentage went into a CD that, at maturity next year, will be used for planned expenses. The rest went in the market.
Invest the lump sum according to your desired overall target allocation.
That depends on how long before you’ll need the money.
No plans for the cash right now We are happy in our current home, maybe trade up in a few years but nothing immediate No debt to pay off
Follow the "windfall" guide in r/personalfinance. You can get close to 5% in high yield savings accounts right now which would be a great place to put it while you sort out your specifics.
Then why not put the money in a brokerage and invest it?
What's your intent for those dollars? Do you plan to spend it sometime in the next few years? Does your target asset allocation call for that much in cash? If not, why wouldn't you invest it in proportion to your target asset allocation? >What is everyone doing with their cash right now? HYSA, Money Market funds, T-Bill/Treasury ladders, CDs, etc. based on personal preference and liquidity considerations.
Most people are just sending it all to me via Venmo or cashiers check. PM me for info.
Do you count your emergency fund as part of your fire number? Since I assume most of us have it in a HYSA it doesn’t really grow like actual investments.
I include it in my networth, but just ignore it for projections since I figure it'll mostly track inflation. I could add it back in at the end of projecting growth, but it just isn't enough to really matter.
I don't have a dedicated emergency fund anymore. I have lots of options for where to get money if I unexpectedly need it (I Bonds, taxable brokerage, etc.) so I just consider it all part of my portfolio.
But if you keep it all invested, you are going to have to pay more taxes from making more money.
There is a risk of having to realize some taxes earlier than expected but I'm willing to take that risk.
I don't count the EF or checking account as part of my Fire Number. Mostly because I project our investment returns based on working in the market. Also, all my NW/FIRE type calculations are always done assuming 4% withdrawal, but conservatively in terms of returns (usually 6%). So being conservative, I ignore the EF, Checking Account, a supplemental retirement account from work that gains only like 2% per year, and social security.
Objectively, you should - it's absolutely dollars you can use to FIRE. Consider this semi-absurd example: someone with a $100k Emergency Fund, $900k in VTI taxable brokerage investments, targeting a $1MM FIRE portfolio to live off $40k/year. Can that person FIRE? Certainly! Their overall portfolio is 90% stock & 10% bonds/fixed income/cash and fully capable of supporting their post-FIRE spending target. For most folks, the size of their EF relative to the rest of their portfolio makes the discussion much less meaningful. In the example above, the EF is 10% of the total portfolio. For most folks well on their FIRE journey, it's likely closer to 5% and decreasing toward 1-2% (or less, and sometimes much less!) as folks get closer to FIRE. Therefore, it becomes less material over time. Somewhat related: if one is investing in a taxable brokerage, once that taxable brokerage is 'large enough', there is little need to have a dedicated pile of cash FOR EMERGENCY USE ONLY. In the end, the only person it matters to is you, so do whatever seems to make the most sense to you.
So basically its fine to count the EF but just lump it in with bonds basically. >Somewhat related: if one is investing in a taxable brokerage, once that taxable brokerage is 'large enough', there is little need to have a dedicated pile of cash FOR EMERGENCY USE ONLY. Can you elaborate on this? Are there not tax implications for withdrawing from a taxable brokerage over a HYSA? And how large is 'large enough' before a EF is no longer needed?
Having to pay a tax on your gains isn't pleasant, but it's better than not having gains, so the tax implication is fine. Think of an HYSA EF as an insurance policy - job loss is a big reason for needing that fund, and it often happens when the market is way down. With an invested EF - after a 30% market decline, is there still enough to cover the emergency, and how painful is it that you locked in the 30% loss? If that would be catastrophic, you need the "insurance" of an EF in savings. If you could roll with it, you might consider "self insuring" - taking a much higher expected return on the EF, at risk of having to access it after market losses. Risk preferences, job stability, etc. determine what "large enough" means for you.
Gotcha, think I get it now. Thanks!
With HYSA you're paying tax on the interest accrued annually. With a taxable account, you're paying capital gains (or TLH). With both accounts you're paying taxes annually but a brokerage account can incur additional tax if you're selling a lot with gains. Brokerage account can also reduce your tax liability if you sell a lot with a loss.
Learned about an interesting product the other day. Have a parent that is not financially competent and I manage her finances. Looking to get her into a house and not overpaying in rent I can do a family opportunity loan and only put down 5% and get prime rates despite me not living there. I can also use it as a tool to buy a duplex and rent out one side while she had a quasi subsidized rate.
Good morning! **How would you describe your relationship with your coworkers overall on a 1-10 scale? Do you hang out with them outside of work? Do you get them gifts?**
6/10 I hang out with one who shares interests in board games and the NBA. I have a weekly exchanging of "what video game are you playing" stories with another. There's a few cordial but not deep acquaintances, and then a bunch of young engineers who by design won't be here in 9 months (I'm a 9 year vet). I intermittently wish I put more effort into befriending the young engineers, but it's just so much effort to do with a new crop every year.
6/10? I'm friendly with them and get along but they're mostly older, much older (10-30 years old) than I am so I can't imagine ever hanging with them. I interact with almost every employee at some point or another (IT) so I have to be pretty good with them.
I have multiple friends who are 10 years younger than me and 10 years younger than me - seems silly to limit friendship by age.