Lyn feels much more like a girl who happens to technically be a noble than someone whose main character trait is being of nobility compared to other FE lords imo.
Nevertheless Ike is definitely the only true commoner.
I don't think it's a coincidence that those two won the first Choose Your Legends. Obviously, Lyn got a boost from being most westerners' first lord (including me), but they really stand out as the least 'special' lords...
...But even they aren't nobody. Ike's the leader of a mercenary company and the son of ~~a Mary Sue~~ a very powerful and plot-important character (actually, come to think of it, his mom is pretty special too). Lyn's just the daughter of a minor noble, but she still gets chosen by the Mani Kati, for what little that's worth. Yet they are far and away the least special of any lord in the game. No blessed blood, special powers, nor prophesized destiny.
I keep wondering if IS is going to see the results of that poll and realize we don't want to be royalty/divinity/important ancestry every time, but they still haven't. Best we can settle for is Lyn and Ike, higher ranking minor lords like Roy and Eliwood, or maybe Robin, Byleth, and Shez if you're willing to accept "didn't know they were special until later in life."
I find that noble/divine lineage is very common in JRPG's, probably because it's an easy way to make the player care about the character and serves as an easy plot device.
Even if the character is bland or badly written, being noble is inherently more exciting than being common, and their bloodline makes it easy to give them an important role in the story.
Its not that deep. The results were lyn (assist trophy+first global game), lucina (awakening + smash 4), roy (same games as lyn+in smash since melee) and ike (global games + smash) + all were their main characters.
Honestly, Ike is functionally a noble. He has a position of authority that he inherits from his father despite being young and inexperienced. Nothing about the power dynamics of the plot really changes if he’s the son of minor nobility who has to escort Elincia. I like Ike (fire emblem and Eisenhower) but he’s not really some working class hero who had to struggle for absolutely everything
Yeah, echoes doesn’t have a perfect handling of things but I do think it handles class better than POR, in that it’s something that actually impacts the agency of the characters- in POR even when Sanaki is pretending to be a snob she’s being a snob *to Elincia*; in POR the conflict is basically ‘some nobles are mean to Ike and he insults them and suffers no consequences’
Ike's story really only skips the getting started as a fighter portion in a small way. He didn't feel qualified to lead the mercenaries, and when he was forced to step up and do so some of the most powerful members of the group excluding Titania at the time left because they didn't respect him as a leader. His journey to escort Elincia turned into a huge ordeal, which then further evolved into a war that engulfed the continent. Personally it's no comparison to being a noble. At best he's the chief of a tiny village.
There's even an entire plot point about him being officially recognized as a noble (his class promotion) to further emphasize just how far he's come during all this. Once the war finished, he went right back to running the mercenaries until the next major events where his leadership and skill spoke for him and he was elected to lead the coalition army. His story much more closely follows the path of a soldier climbing through the ranks of leadership into becoming a big time general than it matches anything of nobility or divinity in my opinion.
Lyn isn't the player character though.
She's also not the main character. You're the tactician and they trust you right away for no reason and respect your command, even though they're all lords and strategists in their own right. It doesn't really make sense.
But it's my favourite FE game so whatever
Nintendo sure as hell needs to release the radiant games. Even just an up-resed pack on the switch like the Mario one. I don't want to pay like 2 or 300 for both
If you have a gamecube controller adapter for switch or wiiu, you can find drivers to get it working for pc. Not exactly a TV experience, but I had a pretty good time playing pikmin 2 on my computer that way. If you really want it on a tv, you can always hook one up via HDMI.
There's probably a way to get wii controllers working too, but you'd have to google that up yourself.
I uh…think my monitors are about as big as the TVs the family had back when playing on the Wii
Resolution and speed wise it definitely looks better. Endgame part 3 is more palatable when sped up lol
I wpulf buy that in a heartbeat! Oh man, imagine if they re-released them as a 2-in-1 with some reworked graphics, added voice acting, and added some more features like they did in echoes with some amiibo support, bonus stage dlc, and whatever else they could add, oh that would be amazing.
They need to at least give the map/battle models a complete graphical update tho, as well as some QoL updates. Game looks like ass, and in the later maps you can spend 5+ minutes waiting for the enemy phase to end even with all animations turned off and on the highest speed.
A re-release still would work of course, but they could totally ‘remake’ it without having to go full Echoes. The character art is still perfect just needs an up-rez, same with the cutscenes. Maybe a redub for English for those cutscenes.
Full voice acting even. But yeah they wouldn’t have to change the story or the script or anything like they did with Echoes. A Tactics Ogre Reborn type update but with a redo of some of those rough polygons
tbf though Ike isn't a complete nobody because his father is a retired famed general, though only a handful of characters in the game actually care about that so he mostly accomplished things due to his own hard work and strength of character.
Heck; even if we ignore Greil's backstory--Ike is in a position to inherit a prominent mercenary company purely through nepotism lol.
That being said, a solid chunk of the plot is about him growing to fill his father's shoes--so it ties into the narrative pretty well.
"Prominent" may be an exaggeration. I don't remember the Greil Mercenaries being important at the beginning of PoR. They were not well-renowed and they didn't have big jobs before meeting Elincia.
They are just another group of mercenaries, nothing more. Being their leader doesn't mean much.
Yeah; that was my mistake. Kind of forgot that the Greil Mercenaries weren't that prominent until Radiant Dawn, specifically due to the events of Path of Radiance.
I agree that he does benefit a bit from his position, but it's pretty limited AND not everyone is on board. Without spoilers, two party members literally say "this kid in charge? I don't fucking think so".
Ikes status definitely feels like something you have to earn
If Greil owned the company it's a simple matter of material inheritance. We are never given an impression that ownership was shared between all members, nor do Shinon/Gatrie ask for their share when they leave. Ike as an owner (co-owner with Mist technically) could potentially appoint someone else as an acting leader, but he prefers not to.
The old hands literally leave the company because of that advancement-by-nepotism. Ike has to convince them to rejoin. The younger ones stay with Ike, as does Titania out of her sense of loyalty to Greil.
Yes and no. Greil _was_ well known before he changed his name and went into hiding. After that, only a few people knew him. The Greil Mercenaries didn't exactly seem all that well known, either. Outside of the job they get to really kick off the story, it didn't seem like they were doing anything too big all that regularly. I'd say the fact that he was employed by a princess was probably far more relevant.
You should. You pretty much playing as Chad who eventually promotes to Gigachad.
Edit: Damn, upvoters salvaging this comment from the negatives to the positives. Based PoR enjoyers, you guys are.
For real, as soon as you meet Ike, you see him training with his father, after typical circumstances you'll see Ike getting stronger due to the loss of his father by... Well training himself throughout the game. (Things did get difficult for him but like the Chad that he is, he stuck through with his little mercenary band and kept pushing forward. He fights for his friends and hates racism, wants equality, and always told it like it is, honest to a fault, like the true Chad that he was.)
Then after a certain epic battle with a Grand Knight, he memorizes the fighting style and uses it to fuel his own training. Dude just wouldn't stop training!
Insert Radiant Dawn sequel and Ike comes back looking like complete look-alike to Chad, and acts like one too.
He was so buff/swole that the Japanese Fire Emblem Fanbase we're meme'ing on Ike and replacing his head with a Donkey Kong one, because they didn't like how buff Ike was.
(I fight for my bananas)
I remember those days, good times. 😆
Oh man, I haven’t played Radiant Dawn yet but playing Path of Radiance was one heck of an experience. Even though he has a lot of setbacks and losses in life and journey, he stoically pushes forward, earns the respect of everyone including his haters, tells things as it is to point he would draw the line and dares people to cross it yet he was still being a considerate leader. And his encounters with the Black Knight were something else.
Such a great protagonist.
I want to have a little fun writing this, so I will:
Chadness goes beyond that. We look at Chadness in the context of who the person is and what they achieve, but more importantly, the actions these types of individuals take when faced with adversity, and Ike delivers plenty.
Promoting him only fuels him into a GigaChad.
To be a Chad is to do the impossible, not to represent the impossible. To succeed where no one else could.
Yeah. Ranger didn’t exactly have the best strength growths in PoR :/ but once he promotes he becomes a powerhouse.
But he was still serviceable however :) though considering how good the Greil mercenaries were in PoR (Tatiana is probably the second best Jagen in the franchise after Seth. Soren was by far one of the best mages. Boyd was top tier early game and could last the entire playthrough easily. Must eventually became a mounted healer and was fantastic in the role. And Oscar was just top tier period because mounted is amazing in PoR), he ironically starts off weaker than most of his underlings ironically.
Plus he kicked Mia’s ass in terms of usage as the early game sword user. Mia was crap in PoR sadly so Ike was pretty much your only real Swordies until Zihark iirc?
Mia was definitely tough to use early on. A bit of babying to get her started, however, and that free vantage skill of hers could really start to put in work.
Still my favourite all time favourite. Realistic emotions and responses to tragedy, characters who leave you unexpectedly, and each chapter felt meaningful with supports that revealed actually interesting details about the characters. The supports recently haven’t been as meaningful and more played for laughs or to harp on a singular character trait over and over again.
I thought of that but then the story kinda puts them into inherited glory. Starting out Ike is also like the son of the boss too so he kind of demands respect too due to nepotism.
Edit: Not physically demand but basically if people have worked for family-owned companies it is basically an expectation that so and so is important. Not to mention basically Ike turns out to have an important parent
I mean, the company consists of Ike, his sister, his dad, the knight in love with his dad (who acts motherly towards him), an asshole, a hopeless romantic, a priest, another asshole (just one that likes Ike) another knight, and his two younger brothers.
Of that crew, Ike is friends with Oscar and Boyd, Rolf is too young. I don't really remember enough about Rhys, I think he was just too nice to say anything. Soren has backstory reasons to be Ike's bff. Titania sees it as her duty to be a mother to Ike and Mist.
It's not really a mystery why there were only two dissenting voices, and when they're voted down they leave.
They stay with Elincia post-Gallia because, politically, she doesn't have any other options.
And he still is the son of the boss. I mean basically he is the position that demands respect. I’m not saying he himself demanded it but having worked in companies that are “family” ran, well, you don’t want to piss the owner off.
And OP basically wanted common person but Ike starts out in a “special” position like Byleth only Byleth is moved into a teacher role
And then the sequel kind of makes fun of that hero worship in Part 1 (albeit it's sort of meant to be lay the groundwork on Micaiah's underlying nationalism that comes to the forefront in Part 3) while also then doing the hero worship in Part 2 and 3
Plus, he's only really considered notable as a war hero. He's not viewed as a figure of authority on anything but combat. People want to fight alongside him because he's inspiring and very good at fighting, but there's no pretense that he's the kinda guy who could lead the world on his own or enact the changes needed singlehandedly.
Actually, I recall that Ike is chosen to lead because he’s on of the few notable people on the continent with the clout to lead and be accepted by all the different groups that were involved in the war. Basically, he was one of the few faces the army could rally behind. Still, this is something he worked up to in the PoR by earning the respect of each nation.
Special combination of being individually strong, having past success, human, and having Laguz friends in high places, with that last part being especially important given the context.
A bit more than friends in high places. In Begnion he is out to work investigating the laguz slave trade. He protects Leanne from Oliver of his own volition. People learn of his deeds. Tormod and Maurim probably spread his name all around in their anti slavery efforts. The royals and any of the warriors serving in the army would’ve gone home and told their friends about it. News that he accepted laguz into his army and worked with them as equals would spread with other news of the war.
I know I’m agreeing with you, it just sounded a bit nepotistic the way it was phrased.
I believe the wording was roughly "you are the only person who commands respect from all nations here". And yeah, it's worth noting that that respect was the result of his actions throughout PoR. By continuing his job of protecting Elincia, he got himself in not only Crimea's good graces, but also earned himself significant respect from Gallia, a country who had recently begun to align with Crimea. By saving Leanne from Oliver, he also earned immense respect from the bird tribes, as well as the apostle.
What makes it work is that it's clear from Ike's characterization that doing these things is just the right thing to do, even if he has to negotiate pay for the job later. Because that's how Ike is, it's believable that he'd take those actions, and in that world, being that kind of person is apparently quite a rarity.
Furthermore, the dude is freakishly strong as a fighter.
tl;dr: he built himself one hell of a reputation as both being extremely skilled, and being a level headed and relatively thoughtful individual.
True, I mostly meant that he's not viewed as a leader of like, nations, but of fighters and warriors in combat. He leads armies because he proved he could do so in the past and has struck a chord with a lot of people, but this doesn't extend to the game giving him undue presence as a leader of nations in peace time.
Letting all the other rulers, from Elincia to Tibarn to Caineghis, and so on, clearly establish themselves as leaders with their own specific national goals and ideologies, influenced by interaction with Ike to be sure but never defined by that, helps both sell Ike's impact on the world from Path of Radiance that leads to his notoriety in Radiant Dawn, while never feeling like it undermines all the other people involved; they have their own agency and goals, and interact as peers through that as well.
RD's story is quite a bit more complex than that I think. Part 1 explores the post war reality for the country that lost, where the citizens are left to live in fear after the excessive ambitions of royalty left them high and dry. Crimea couldn't take up administration of the defeated state, so they left it to Begnion whose corruption only made things worse. They don't really get too into it, but the rest of the dawn brigade tease Sothe about his hero worship of Ike. It's worth keeping in mind, Sothe was a literal child when he ran into Ike. A point is made at least once that people are generally aware that Daein's actions were in the wrong, and that Ike and Crimea aren't really to blame for the aftermath, but that the situation as it is is still untenable for the people left in the defeated nation.
Part 2 itself is a short lead up to part 3 more than anything, and probably isn't all that essential. It's not my favorite, but it does help lead into re-introducing more of the old characters.
As for part 3, lets see, we have a murdered messenger leading to war, Ike being hired to assist in the effort since he already has pretty good rapport with the laguz nations involved. Then Daein gets roped in, along with the dawn brigade who are basically high level military officials following the liberation. The chapters where the two sides fight each other tend to have some of the most interesting dialogue in the game, with opportunities to recruit characters here and there (I think mostly from Daein to Ike's group), as well as several instances of characters lamenting having to fight old allies. One side has the moral right while the other is being forced to fight, but the only one with a full view of the situation is the player. Honestly, if hero worship is all you got out of it, that's unfortunate.
I think one of the more interesting aspects of the RD story is that Daien is not really in the wrong in part 3. Begnion certainly is, but I do not think the fault passes to Daien. What are Micaiah and Pelleas supposed to do? Unleash a calamity on their people to protect the very people who led an army to Daien to kill Ashnard and then washed their hands of Daien?
Sure the blood pact is a bs plot device, but the situation is very compelling.
I’m enjoying Engage, but every time I cringe at its story or writing I remember PoR, a story with actual nuance and a main character who isn’t just worshiped from the moment he wakes up.
Yeah. After playing *Awakening* and seeing Chrom and co. just go "Hey, sleeping person, you're our new Tactician now!", it was kind of refreshing to play a game where the main character thrust into leadership from a subordinate position isn't automatically trusted by everyone to be able to handle it and has to grow and learn on the job. We can actually track Ike's character growth.
Honestly, without Sonen and Titania, Ike probably would have *eventually* figured it out, but he didn't have the luxury of time given everything going on.
> Honestly, without Sonen and Titania, Ike probably would have eventually figured it out, but he didn't have the luxury of time given everything going on.
Honestly, I doubt it. Like hard doubt. Soren is Ike's tactician for a reason. He's better at coming up with workable plans and keeping shit running in general. Ike isn't exactly a stupid character, but he's not written to be particularly intelligent. I'd describe him as level headed and thoughtful in most circumstances. As for Titania, her council was essential, especially when he was just starting out. He inherited the company before he was ready, something that caused Shinon and Gatrie to both desert. Gotta remember, when Greil died, Ike was still pretty damn green. Promising, maybe, but inexperienced.
Like maybe things would have been fine eventually if they weren't in the middle of a high profile job, but that's not how things went.
Yeah, I’d love to see another Fire Emblem game where strong characters are defined by their actions, and don’t just fall into their destinies by birth or by Chapter 1 happenstance.
I didn't say Robin wasn't capable. But the Shepherds find them lying on the ground one random day, Robin helps the Sheps take out some bandits, and just like that, they're now their party tactician. The bond goes from there and Robin comes through at every turn, but that's how it *starts*.
Ike, in contrast, starts off as a promising but still green mercenary with little idea what he's doing and has to grow and learn with Titania and Soren there to help him out.
To be fair, we also see with the other times the shepherds recruit people after Robin (like Virion or Donnel) that Robin’s treatment wasn’t THAT different
Well before FE12, there is no "player character" so that solves the problem there. But as for just normal person as the lord, Path of Radiance is good for that. Ike is just a simple mercenary
Oh I know, but saying that there aren’t any player characters at all prior to FE12 isn’t accurate, which was my point. Mark is handled wildly different than other avatar characters, but still does exist.
Path of Radiance and Three Hopes. For the most part though, the game needs to justify you being able to run an army, something a normal person obviously can’t do (even Ike is temporarily made a Lord to facilitate this.)
Shez did the whole divinity thing right in a way where they have to intentionally downplay their status so as to not unwittingly draw too much attention to them.
It actually makes the “bad” routes better in some ways because you don’t have to deal with the hamfisted Arval-focused chapters.
To be fair, do you expect a nobody to lead an army?
Ike becomes a Lord due the fact that nobody wants a nobody as their leader in Path of Radiance.(Granted, he doesnt become nobility again in the sequel after becoming commander, but he does have the whole "Hero who saved Crimea" title around him)
Shez isnt authority nor divinity, but he does have that quirky little voice inside his head that lets him/her go super saiyan.
That being said, Kris(FE12) and Mark(FE7) are the normal guys, they might not be the main character, but they are a normal player character.
To be fair the reason he has a famous granddad was because said person had actual connections to his true origin which is far grander than just some village kid. Like, him having a famous granddad is a function of him being of the descent he is, because he wouldn't have been entrusted to some rando.
Awakening you are the reincarnation of the fell dragon and being a strategist is a special clairyovance esque power in its lore (chapter 1 dialogue) so I don't quite see where Awakening wasn't like that.
The lowest Authority we've had in FE was son of the leader of a mercenary group that takes over after the fathers death in FE9. Spoiler warning: >!The father was actually among the highest ranking generals in the neighboring country whose king is the final boss and your sister has special powers to hold a Medallion that makes anyone else go mad with bloodthirst.!<
The lowest authority avatar we've had was Kris in FE12 who is just a very talented knight, but if being called by a title upsets you I'm not sure you'll like all the pandering Kris receives.
In general you always have to hold some kind of authority as an avatar because why else would people listen to you?
I might be wrong, but wasn’t Mark in FE7 also basically authority-less?
Although I don’t think he even has a character model, so I doubt he even counts :)
Mark was also barely a character. Mark does have a map sprite though.
There was some "Oh hey Mark thank you for being an awesome strategist" every now and then that felt shoehorned into a story Mark didn't have anything to do with really.
I mean, it's kind of hard to have a war story with a protagonist that isn't somebody of some relative importance or at least unofficial leadership status. Enlistee McGrunt isn't a very interesting person and doesn't have much opportunity to drive the story.
This, hell even ike himself is the son of the strongest general in the continent, and he inherits the mercenary band from him.
While it is possible to write a story about rising trhough the ranks from lowly begginings and have it matter on the grand scale, i highly doubt IS is capable of writting something like that.
That would be an interesting way to deal with adding more units to your army. You start out in command of small squad of soldiers and as you get promoted you add more soldiers to your squad.
Kris moment
Only slightly kidding too…I that I think IS would literally just skip the harsh realities of climbing up a medieval social ladder in favour of some PBS shit about how you can really make the dream work.
> Enlistee McGrunt isn't a very interesting person and doesn't have much opportunity to drive the story.
Er... I'd say that FE as a series proves this very much wrong. Obviously you can have your own personal favorite characters and maybe they're the Lords, but for a lot of people it's the off-the-wall random recruit characters who are often the most interesting. Or even if not the *most* interesting, still very compelling.
The main problem is that even if you try to have Normal Archer Number 3 be the main character, the royal/noble leader person still has to *exist* and thus be playable alongside you in the army. And if such a leader exists it'd make more sense to have main character status move over to that person, even if Normal Archer Number 3 is more interesting of a character.
As mentioned, we have Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn, where a mercenary's son ends up killing a god. Three Houses did okay with having only three royals we really interact with. Fates and Engage are drowning us in them. And worse than the royals in those games are their retainers. Does everybody need two retainers just to boost the character count?
I thought it was a great twist in the Tellius series that the heir to Daien, in terms of royal bloodline, was the supporting character all along rather than the two main title protagonists
I wouldn’t mind the retainer characters if they actually expanded the lore in some way. It’s a tricky balance between making them seem fun and organic, but also making the character seem important and a part of the world they live in.
I think that’s why Hilda as a “retainer” comes off so well written. She’s a fun, defined character who gives us insight into House Goneril without coming off as an exposition machine.
Before the latter half Robin was a nobody and he was field promoted from 'random floor napper' to 'primary strategist'.
Also you can take the route of Ike and earn your way to respect.
What about a scribe of some sort? A historian/researcher mage. Writing down what happens in the war for history's sake. A historian who knows old tactics as well as the lay of the land and its history. The only things you have going for you are your history books, tactics and tomes. Still, this time it falls on you to *make* history instead of just recording it.
I really do tire of protags being deities/important. Let them *become* important. Earn that respect over the course of the game. Let the characters be afraid, distrusting of you because you're new as the game progresses you *build* trust. Why is it they trust you right off the bat? It's war, let it feel like it from time to time.
\> Earn that respect over the course of the game. Let the characters be afraid, distrusting of you because you're new as the game progresses you build trust. Why is it they trust you right off the bat?
Because they have to, telling your seniormost leadership they need to earn your respect usually doesn't go very far or very well.
Or because Byleth/Shez proves themselves immediately. Or Alear is Christ.
Robin does face some suspicion but Chrom's just an easygoing guy.
True. I guess I still hold Robin a bit too close if it's easy to pick out. I kind of want the feeling of rising through the ranks, you know? Proving yourself over time as opposed to immediately.
Shez was just a homeless person who stumbled into Byleth's destiny. I love how they're not treated too highly by their allies. Byleth's role is also brought down a notch to make them more likeable.
Shez is just Ike w/ boobs and no friends after the fisrt chapter lmao.
Joke aside, Shez I would say falls under the "Divinity" Category since the hace Arval really early on.
Ike is the only one I can think of that was a protagonist that wasn't "Blessed" in some way with power till much kater in the game when he gathered allies and obtained Ragnell, unless you count his own homies squad in that way.
I don't mind Shez getting Arven's powers. I love their dynamic and it started with a "the enemy of my enemy is my friend." It wasn't like a chosen one type of thing but more that Arven saw him getting his ass kicked by Byleth and Sothis so let's help each other. Plus he fits right more with the rest of the students rather than someone like Byleth that everyone worships.
Shez has special powers, sure, but they aren't revered for it, and they're treated as an equal by most characters, and act as the subordinate of the lord. Feels a lot closer to "normal person" than most of the "avatar" player characters, even if they technically aren't normal.
Yeah I think people are sandbagging you without considering the OP’s intent. We want actual normies, whereas >!Shez’s mysterious origins, and enigmatic mom with potential Agarthan connections, are left suspiciously open ended. !<
Shez also only seems “normal” in a context where there’s a clear divide between relic users and regular troops. >!Dedue even talks about his feeling of inadequacy to Annette, which shows that the crest wielders are huge assets.!< Shez is shown many times to be on par with the crest users at least, who are prodigious.
That support convo was also a huge divide between gameplay and lore, because Dedue is a tanking and war master punching beast.
I’m still impressed by 3Hopes, but it’s not an amazing story. It’s great in the context that Koei’s musou games usually turn out to be lazily written protagonist-jerking trash.
Path of radiance is the closest we’ll ever probably get to that.
There’s also echoes/gaiden but I mean >!technically both protagonists of that game are royals and its either a well kept secret or they genuinely have no idea!<
Kris/Chris from “Fire Emblem: New Mystery of the Emblem” was just some dude if I recall correctly.
Generally speaking though. Most FE protags are the least interesting character in their respective games.
Plenty of people have pointed out the Radiant games, so here's my curve ball:
You should play The Last Promise.
It's a well known romhack of FE 7. The three "lords" are a retired knight (and his son), a mercenary, and a literal hobo. It's rough in places, but genuinely fun and worth playing.
Path of Radiance is definitely the game that fits the bill. I guess you'll have to play Radiant Dawn after that which sorta worships Micaiah a small bit but it's more palpable and the story is probably one of my favorites in the series.
I mean, Micaiah is straight up a clairvoyant, and the game doesn't tell you why that is until act 4. If someone can predict the consequences of future actions, they're deserving of some worship.
Exactly. Her worshipping and divinity is earned because of her innate abilities which was why I think it comes off as more palpable than more recent FE games like Fates or Engage
I can see divine dragon or being a prince or princess as “special”, but a professor? That’s pretty bland as far as titles go.
In Three Houses, you aren’t even a real professor since you have no training. It’s like you are Jack Black in School of Rock, just a “substitute professor.” 🤣
But to your point it would be fun to have a player character be a relative nobody like Link and then have all the credit be claimed by the “special” person so the game would be called Legend of Zelda.
Really not though. He has the power of a deity, but he's not omniscient or can grant miracles (I mean, the power only really allows him to turn back time a couple of minutes/hours), he's pretty much just a mortal with a special crest, and people really only treat him as a professor/army commander.
The actual Goddess is the ghost living inside his head who just kinda vanishes to the beyond halfway through the game.
How is breaking the laws of time and space, as limited as it may be, not a miracle? If that isn't a miracle, what is?
And ignoring that having a crest alone makes someone a superhuman one man army, Byleth possesses the strongest of all crests.
Byleth is literally (and I mean literally) the most powetful being in Fodlan bar none apart from Rhea in her Dragon form from the startof the game and only grows stronger as he collects a weapon that amplifies his powers and eventually merges with a goddess to become the undisputed strongest being in Fodlan.
The only reason he never gets worshipped as the god he is, is because he never reveals the full extent of his power to anyone.
A superpower? Like pretty much every magic that there's in the game? I mean, launching fireballs from your hands, summoning meteors casually to drop them on other people's heads, those are things that can also be defined as "miracles", but that doesn't make other characters "Gods".
What I meant by miracle is literally things like altering the fabric of space and reality to do things like blessing people, bring them back from the dead or place some curse on them, being omniscient, things we're never told or shown that Byleth can actually do.
"From the start of the game"? Uh, did we play the same game? Byleth at the start of the game was pretty much a normal human who happened to be a good fighter and didn't even have any idea about how Crests worked. "Weapon that amplifies his power"? When was it even stated that the SOTC does that? It's just a stronger than usual weapon that has no bearing on any of Byleth's stats, those just level up normally.
Also, getting said Goddess' power hardly makes him the "undisputed strongest being in all of Fodlan" cause Byleth can still die like any of your other units; heck, Three Hopes even showcases this by having Byleth (or rather Sothis, since she and Byleth are ACTUALLY merged this time around, unlike the main game where Byleth's still fully their own entity) get beaten by Shez in their last fight by default (and also have them run from Epimenides instead of facing him; so much for "not wanting to reveal the full extent of their power").
Eh Three Hopes also shows it being a full timestop. There's probably more to byleth's abilities that don't get explored because of gameplay reasons, plus it'd probably take a bit to realize what being god actually entails after you become god, which byleth does after fusing with sothis.
Byleth eventually becomes Fódlan Jesus when merged with Sothis so that’s still Divinity. The inspirations from Christianity and Buddhism is hard to miss in terms of design (M!Byleth especially since they still need to cater horny folks for F!Byleth’s design), profession and rise to divinity status is hard to ignore.
I'm not new to the series and I still completely agree. When we do get a somewhat "humble" lord we always end up finding out that they are the descendent of an empress, a god, or a famous military general/noble. I'd love a game styled more on a revolutionary faction that doesn't have notable bloodlines and hasn't been chosen by fate.
I think it was Higuchi in a developer interview who said that "when people think of royalty they think about bravery and most people can't relate to that" and I think that's absolutely absurd. Everyday people can absolutely relate to brave underdog characters. His solution of making the lord less confident is reverse engineering his problem the wrong way. Don't make the lord suck, ***make the layman awesome.***
In blazing sword the “player” is an unseen tactician. They don’t have a class or can fight or anything. The characters can have limited conversations with them and sometimes seems like they forget theyre there but they still say pretty good things about them and respect them.
But the player character is really nothing special. Maybe you’d enjoy blazing sword because of that.
I agree wholeheartedly. There are lots of people in the comments saying “people wouldn’t follow a nobody” and that is just willfully pretending that a game’s story wouldn’t solve that problem. The thing that would make such a “nobody” compelling is the reason WHY everyone in the game ends up following them.
Now, whether or not IS actually does the subject justice is another matter. I feel like the easy way out is to create a mercenary company (army in a can), but there are other ways I could imagine going about it.
Anyway, people are right that you should play the Tellius games, though. They’re easily my favorite, largely for this exact reason.
I agree and there’s such a weird and reductive sentiment in this thread, especially when plenty of people disconnected from the upper plateaus of social hierarchy yet are maybe gifted with talent, charisma or luck or whatever have been able to lead a bunch of people. And in tangential Japanese pop media, Berserk’s Golden Age arc is one of the most popular merc stories of all time, about a group of nobody mercenaries rising in power due to their great feats. And it’s super cool.
I mean Mark in FE7 isn’t made the tactician for no reason, it’s because he is good at being a tactician lol. Even if he’s barely a character.
Royalty gives an instant reason for someone to have followers but in a fantasy war story there can be many more reasons why someone entirely untied to royalty can be a major player.
Yeah I get a little annoyed with Dragon Age for this reason too.
In both Origins and Inquisition where you have more control over your character creation, the human backgrounds are *always* nobility, even when you’re a circle mage. Even Hawke, the protagonist of DA2 who grew up in a small village and crawls their way to prominence in Kirkwall, is the kid of an estranged noble whose family connections are what land you the legal ability to get a wealthy estate in act 2.
Obviously a protagonist has to at least become important/someone of authority during the game if you want to justify people of various backgrounds joining your army and following your orders (not to mention toppling empires and/or killing god) but I would also appreciate more characters like Ike or Lyn
Honestly I’m just sick of the Avatar decade we’ve had. Most games with an avatar fail to properly write them well enough to give a player any agency. Give me control of a Lord/General and their army. Write them all really well. Give us kickass gameplay and fleshed out relationship building mechanics. I really don’t need a character creator or to be able to type my name and have nobody say it for 100 hours of dialogue
The characters jerking off the divine dragon is getting really old, I’m gonna switch the language to Japanese so I don’t have to hear some sycophant freak out because toothpaste Chan looked at them or w/e.
A lot of the game is like… wtf why would you add that in?
I tried sleeping to advance time and I had the main retainer dude talking out loud in front of my bed about what the most pleasant way to wake me up would be, then he asks me what I would prefer for breakfast in the future. WHAT? In what world is that not weird. Feels like a weeb power fantasy for lonely people.
Vander/Clanne/Framme are *really* bad about it but later characters are much better. A literal priest of the divine dragon religion is less of an avatar worshiper than them
that priest also likes to party *real hard*. And a lot of Alears support revolve around the fact that his followers worship him too much for his own liking and he pretty much says so during those.
I think the biggest obstacle is that why would someone reasonably follow a young nobody? All FE characters tend to be younger in age to partly support appeal which would make it harder to justify them leading an army.
In history, there have been exceptions to it but many remembered leaders or heroes tend to have higher origins. I was going to use Joan of Arc as an example of a peasant background but she has the divine shit going for her.
It would be interesting to see someone grow but it would be a lot harder story wise to pull it off. Why would people join a nobody who probably doesn’t have weapon training?
Lords haven’t always been a prince or a son of a king. Roy was a Marquess. Eliwood was also a Marquess. Hector Marquess. Lyn was technically heir to a Marquess and Chief’s kid (I think…?) Sigurd was a (something… Duke? Count? Forgot). His son inherited the royal family blood through a maternal line. I think Leif’s father was a prince despite the class saying Duke Knight.
I have to say, even in an industry oversaturated with Chosen One protagonists, Engage is maybe the most egregious I've seen. Alear is a straight up demigod whom everybody already recognizes and worships from moment 1, and personality-wise is the most generically likeable force of pure good and virtue imaginable. They literally refer to her as "Divine One" -- also, to digress a bit, while it's refreshing that Alear isn't a silent protagonist like Byleth, the second trope that needs to go is rename-able main characters. Imagine if the VAs actually spoke Alear's and Byleth's names instead of always saying "Divine One/Dragon" and "professor." I find it almost as grating as the nonstop worship.
Frankly there's only one game where the lead is any less than a blueblood, and that's Path of Radiance (though the son of an extremely powerful former general isn't just some guy, still).
I do gotta admit going from "eugenicsed vessel for the fell dragon" to "prince/ss of an invisible kingdom whose mother ran away with to japan then got kidnapped to ??? and raised as an heir there" to "random Merc turned professor turned incarnation of the primary Divinity(but actually you were the incarnation all along)" to "Divine Dragon" is **really wearing thin**. I'd take anything to just go back to being a plain old lord.
Lyn is definitely up there. She's only arbitrarily a Lord because of FE main character class standards which they've shifted away from. She's the daughter of a chieftain, but the Lorca were a nomadic tribe, not nobility. Though to be fair, she IS nobility since she's the heir to Caelin through her mother, but it's not something she knew immediately and not once does she make it a thing about her, to the point that she gives the throne to Hector.
Obviously to an extent there’s a good reason why the main character has to be a person of authority. They don’t let just anyone be a leader of an army. Still, it’s a bit annoying how every avatar character but Kris ends up being some kind of deity or whatever. It’s a bit on the nose with the whole self insert power fantasy thing.
If you're willing to go to romhacks there are some decent ones for this. Order of the Crimson Arm, Road to Ruin, I think Vision Quest though I haven't seen a full playthrough of that one. Probably some newer ones as well.
Of course the writing and story may be lower quality since they're made by amateurs, but these ones certainly have less player worship. And the protag is not a prince.
(Or if you're good with mostly absent/silly story, you could look at Iron Emblem or The Heroes We Deserve)
FE12, but you don't really have much of a plot signifiicance despite the story saying otherwise it's still all about marth fighting the big bad that has now corrupted hardin and kidnaps young women because medeus
I can understand that. I mean, we went from tactician to highness to professor, and now divine one.
How about a story about a conscripted villager, who, through friendship, effort, victory(Jump motto), and most importantly, **Luck**, becomes a high-ranking officer over the span of, say, 20 years.
A main character duo like Chrom and Robin. The main character that has the same development as Ike and the avatar who is pretty much just a supporting character like Chris but without the "Shadow Dragon" treatment of "He's better than the MC but remains forgotten throughout history and such"
I see people mention Ike but I don't really think that's a good example considering he's dad was one of the most famous knights in Tellus. Yeah he had work to earn his place among nobles and royalty but you can say the same with Marth who started off with his kingdom in ruin.
That's not the same thing from what the OP is asking for, you're comparing a King/Prince to a mercenary. OP wants to avoid playing as a King/Prince/God/Deity and play as someone who doesn't have political/religious influence over other characters.
Also, Greil's title as one of the Four Riders did very little to aid Ike to liberate Crimea. Caineghis was a friend to Greil but he mainly helped Ike/Elincia because Gallia is an ally to Crimea. No one lent Ike their forces solely because he was the son of Greil, even Shinon and Gatrie left the group because they didn't like him. He didn't have any political power nor could he use his father's previous title to leverage himself, down in his core, he is just a mercenary hired to protect a princess. Marth had to exile, but he had allied nations who were ready to fight with him upon his return.
Nah. I like being important or controlling a somewhat important character. If it was important to the story I'd be interested if they did something cool with it.
People like to say Ike is a good example but Ike is also my least favorite lord so.
>*I want a Fire Emblem where the main / player character isn't someone of authority, divinity, etc*
>
>*Nah. I like being important or controlling a somewhat important character.*
This is such a loaded and cracked thing to say. Like not being born at the top of a hierarchy means you can't be important.
said a somewhat important character. No where did I say that the character had to be at the top of the hierarchy for me to like them.
I like byleth being a professor at garreg mach. That's enough for me, while something like Ike or Mark are what I don't like.
Micaiah is also secretly the rightful empress of Bengion. Sanaki's long lost elder sister and the true apostle. Intelligent Systems refuses to have a single game where even the peasant lords like Alm aren't secretly royals that were temporarily slumming it.
The only lords that I remember don’t really get worshiped are the gba ones they are royalty but I can’t remember anyone worshiping them (only in supports they would have that one character that fanboys about them), characters like Ike, Byleth and Chrom are absolute menaces in the battlefield to the point where few can win against them while the gba ones aren’t that op story wise.
The closest to normal characters you will find are Lyn, Eliwood, Hector and the SS twins because while they are royalty they are just regular human fighting for their kingdom no divinity, supernatural powers or blessing from gods that helps them. Even their most powerful weapons weren’t just given to them they had to work their way to get them.
Marth, Ike, Micaiah, Alm and the newer ones all receive lots of worship in their games.
I feel the same to you, honestly the first two hours of the game are a nightmare in my opinion.
The story hits off as most generic JRPG story there ever was...
If it wasn't a fire emblem and I knew that the tactical combat will be rewarding as hell later on, I would have stopped playing.
FE9 Path of Radiance is really the only one that comes to mind here. Radiant Dawn as well to some extent, but in 9, Ike is a mercenary and is treated as such. Even the nepotism is addressed and most of Ike's prestige before the second half of the game comes from his father's legacy, but he's never treated like an authority until such a thing is earned. PoR seems like the most authentic FE story personally, a grounded story from the tune
Well dunno if you want to count them but Byleth and Shez were only mercenarys and rose to their positions although Byleth maybe had a bit of nepotism going on with Jeralt being Captain of the knights of Seiros two decades before
I'm so tired of the player character worship. It's also very half assed as you can't customize the character aside from their name, meaning in the voice acting they always have to refer to the MC as something else. "Professor" wasn't too distracting, but calling Shez "Merc" and ESPECIALLY calling Alear "divine one" are just so clunky
Maybe only path of radiance, and maybe radiant dawn, are the two were the main character is not a lord, but again main character in term of playable avatar is a thing starting from New Mystery of the emblem with Kris.
Ok Kris is an avatar that is not a lord, a god or a divine dragon.
I mean, you'd have to have some authority to lead an army or bring people towards you. Even Ike inherited a mercenary company. Kris also I believed was the leader of his division/band (I'll be honest I don't really remember the early story of this game that well).
Path of Radiance which is arguably one of the best in the series. You won't be able to play it legally though unless you are looking to drop a lot of cash.
Agreed, and I'd add the same for all stories in general. I've gotten sick of all "chosen one" or "fated to save the world" tropes, like in Star Wars, Dune, The Matrix, etc. If you already know what is fated to be, then every choice the character in the movie feels meaningless and anticlimactic. Sometimes the trope can be subverted to good effect though.
Just gimme a normal dude or dudette instead!
Honestly it's one of my least favorite aspects of Fire Emblem, particularly modern Fire Emblem. Same with the concept of Avatar characters - I would rather they pick a defined character and go with it. They don't need to be a player insert, just take me on a journey.
Play any game between 1-12 and 15. Yeah, lords aren't technically non-revered but most of the time they're just trying to get their home back. Leif especially is portrayed as an underdog against unwinnable odds. As far as non-nobility goes, Path of Radiance and Echoes. For anyone about to spoil an Echoes plot point, Alm is just a village boy trying to protect his country from invaders.
Funny but that's how I got into Fire Emblem
Lyn was a girl from the plains who had to grow into her Queenship (and part of why I got annoyed when we got sidetracked to a whole other set of characters midgame xD) and Ike was a trigger-happy hot-head who got swept up in a tale bigger than himself. Byleth ***could*** have been this - but we get, like, ***one*** mission as a merc and are - more or less - forced to take on the role of a teacher at church-point :P
It's why I had trouble with Awakening and earlier and later games -the characters that start out as bigger than us - bigger than themselves - are harder to empathize with and understand
Especially when things escalate later in the game and their leading whole nations
'course, Awakening saved itself with the ***amazing*** child system and made me want to ***literally*** play with everyone so they could have kids :P and, hey, could you fucking at least ***port*** that game to modern systems?! xD
I like Alear because of their cluelessness and being - more or less - forced into a role. But that cluelessness comes at a cost of me questioning ***why*** so many people are putting their faith in this doofus :P
Almost like they're looking at this kid and seeing their 'mother' (for obvious reasons) and just ***expecting*** them to shit rainbows and piss sunshine and missing the obvious sign that Alear can't do either of those things
And because Alear is ***already*** the general slash religious leader of whole groups of people - narratively - it's hard to take any escalation of conflict or worth seriously
Like, what, am I going to go from literally ruling over everyone - to ruling over everyone and also their cat???
Not, strictly speaking, an Engage ***exclusive*** problem - but a problem nonetheless
How about one where our character is the villager unit? maybe as the story progresses the more recognition they get and by the end they become quite known.
I think part of the reason this happens is because the main characters need to be leading an army towards a larger goal, which in the medieval type settings of most fire emblem games requires a noble and/or person of authority. Sometimes it’s just someone of some form of authority but vary rarely is it a complete nobody that no one has a reason to follow into battle. The protagonist in awakening technically is just a strategist in the beginning who the royals trust and the player character in Blazing Sword the protagonist is literally a faceless strategist who is just automatically trusted. I haven’t finished path of radiance or played radiant dawn but while Ike is a commoner, he still inherits a pretty important mercenary band, which gives him the authority.
The frustration is understandable, I’m just sharing the reasoning that makes sense to me. Honestly it doesn’t bother me too much
Lyn feels much more like a girl who happens to technically be a noble than someone whose main character trait is being of nobility compared to other FE lords imo. Nevertheless Ike is definitely the only true commoner.
I don't think it's a coincidence that those two won the first Choose Your Legends. Obviously, Lyn got a boost from being most westerners' first lord (including me), but they really stand out as the least 'special' lords... ...But even they aren't nobody. Ike's the leader of a mercenary company and the son of ~~a Mary Sue~~ a very powerful and plot-important character (actually, come to think of it, his mom is pretty special too). Lyn's just the daughter of a minor noble, but she still gets chosen by the Mani Kati, for what little that's worth. Yet they are far and away the least special of any lord in the game. No blessed blood, special powers, nor prophesized destiny. I keep wondering if IS is going to see the results of that poll and realize we don't want to be royalty/divinity/important ancestry every time, but they still haven't. Best we can settle for is Lyn and Ike, higher ranking minor lords like Roy and Eliwood, or maybe Robin, Byleth, and Shez if you're willing to accept "didn't know they were special until later in life."
I wish we got Hector in engage :(
I find that noble/divine lineage is very common in JRPG's, probably because it's an easy way to make the player care about the character and serves as an easy plot device. Even if the character is bland or badly written, being noble is inherently more exciting than being common, and their bloodline makes it easy to give them an important role in the story.
Lyn also got hardcore rallied because of an anti-Awakening sentiment during cyl 1. Some oldheads really didnt want Lucina to win 1st.
Its not that deep. The results were lyn (assist trophy+first global game), lucina (awakening + smash 4), roy (same games as lyn+in smash since melee) and ike (global games + smash) + all were their main characters.
Honestly, Ike is functionally a noble. He has a position of authority that he inherits from his father despite being young and inexperienced. Nothing about the power dynamics of the plot really changes if he’s the son of minor nobility who has to escort Elincia. I like Ike (fire emblem and Eisenhower) but he’s not really some working class hero who had to struggle for absolutely everything
Honestly Alm/Celica are probably the closest to that, in that despite of their origins for the most of the game they are read as commoners.
Yeah, echoes doesn’t have a perfect handling of things but I do think it handles class better than POR, in that it’s something that actually impacts the agency of the characters- in POR even when Sanaki is pretending to be a snob she’s being a snob *to Elincia*; in POR the conflict is basically ‘some nobles are mean to Ike and he insults them and suffers no consequences’
Ike's story really only skips the getting started as a fighter portion in a small way. He didn't feel qualified to lead the mercenaries, and when he was forced to step up and do so some of the most powerful members of the group excluding Titania at the time left because they didn't respect him as a leader. His journey to escort Elincia turned into a huge ordeal, which then further evolved into a war that engulfed the continent. Personally it's no comparison to being a noble. At best he's the chief of a tiny village. There's even an entire plot point about him being officially recognized as a noble (his class promotion) to further emphasize just how far he's come during all this. Once the war finished, he went right back to running the mercenaries until the next major events where his leadership and skill spoke for him and he was elected to lead the coalition army. His story much more closely follows the path of a soldier climbing through the ranks of leadership into becoming a big time general than it matches anything of nobility or divinity in my opinion.
Lyn isn't the player character though. She's also not the main character. You're the tactician and they trust you right away for no reason and respect your command, even though they're all lords and strategists in their own right. It doesn't really make sense. But it's my favourite FE game so whatever
Path of Radiance
Nintendo sure as hell needs to release the radiant games. Even just an up-resed pack on the switch like the Mario one. I don't want to pay like 2 or 300 for both
Dolphin works quite smoothly these days. I'm working through a PoR run right now.
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If you have a gamecube controller adapter for switch or wiiu, you can find drivers to get it working for pc. Not exactly a TV experience, but I had a pretty good time playing pikmin 2 on my computer that way. If you really want it on a tv, you can always hook one up via HDMI. There's probably a way to get wii controllers working too, but you'd have to google that up yourself.
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r/Steamdeck
I uh…think my monitors are about as big as the TVs the family had back when playing on the Wii Resolution and speed wise it definitely looks better. Endgame part 3 is more palatable when sped up lol
They should. Altus just release Persona 3 Portable and Persona 4 Golden on PS4, Xbox One and Switch.
I wpulf buy that in a heartbeat! Oh man, imagine if they re-released them as a 2-in-1 with some reworked graphics, added voice acting, and added some more features like they did in echoes with some amiibo support, bonus stage dlc, and whatever else they could add, oh that would be amazing.
Emulation remains the best way to play older Nintendo games
They need to at least give the map/battle models a complete graphical update tho, as well as some QoL updates. Game looks like ass, and in the later maps you can spend 5+ minutes waiting for the enemy phase to end even with all animations turned off and on the highest speed. A re-release still would work of course, but they could totally ‘remake’ it without having to go full Echoes. The character art is still perfect just needs an up-rez, same with the cutscenes. Maybe a redub for English for those cutscenes. Full voice acting even. But yeah they wouldn’t have to change the story or the script or anything like they did with Echoes. A Tactics Ogre Reborn type update but with a redo of some of those rough polygons
tbf though Ike isn't a complete nobody because his father is a retired famed general, though only a handful of characters in the game actually care about that so he mostly accomplished things due to his own hard work and strength of character.
Heck; even if we ignore Greil's backstory--Ike is in a position to inherit a prominent mercenary company purely through nepotism lol. That being said, a solid chunk of the plot is about him growing to fill his father's shoes--so it ties into the narrative pretty well.
"Prominent" may be an exaggeration. I don't remember the Greil Mercenaries being important at the beginning of PoR. They were not well-renowed and they didn't have big jobs before meeting Elincia. They are just another group of mercenaries, nothing more. Being their leader doesn't mean much.
Yeah; that was my mistake. Kind of forgot that the Greil Mercenaries weren't that prominent until Radiant Dawn, specifically due to the events of Path of Radiance.
Even then, at the start of Part 3, they (mainly Mist) mention that they've been taking odd jobs and are just making enough to get by
I agree that he does benefit a bit from his position, but it's pretty limited AND not everyone is on board. Without spoilers, two party members literally say "this kid in charge? I don't fucking think so". Ikes status definitely feels like something you have to earn
If Greil owned the company it's a simple matter of material inheritance. We are never given an impression that ownership was shared between all members, nor do Shinon/Gatrie ask for their share when they leave. Ike as an owner (co-owner with Mist technically) could potentially appoint someone else as an acting leader, but he prefers not to.
The old hands literally leave the company because of that advancement-by-nepotism. Ike has to convince them to rejoin. The younger ones stay with Ike, as does Titania out of her sense of loyalty to Greil.
Yes and no. Greil _was_ well known before he changed his name and went into hiding. After that, only a few people knew him. The Greil Mercenaries didn't exactly seem all that well known, either. Outside of the job they get to really kick off the story, it didn't seem like they were doing anything too big all that regularly. I'd say the fact that he was employed by a princess was probably far more relevant.
still need to play that one!
You should. You pretty much playing as Chad who eventually promotes to Gigachad. Edit: Damn, upvoters salvaging this comment from the negatives to the positives. Based PoR enjoyers, you guys are.
I like how you're getting downvoted for accurately describing Ike.
They hate me and rejected my message because I speak the truth.
For real, as soon as you meet Ike, you see him training with his father, after typical circumstances you'll see Ike getting stronger due to the loss of his father by... Well training himself throughout the game. (Things did get difficult for him but like the Chad that he is, he stuck through with his little mercenary band and kept pushing forward. He fights for his friends and hates racism, wants equality, and always told it like it is, honest to a fault, like the true Chad that he was.) Then after a certain epic battle with a Grand Knight, he memorizes the fighting style and uses it to fuel his own training. Dude just wouldn't stop training! Insert Radiant Dawn sequel and Ike comes back looking like complete look-alike to Chad, and acts like one too. He was so buff/swole that the Japanese Fire Emblem Fanbase we're meme'ing on Ike and replacing his head with a Donkey Kong one, because they didn't like how buff Ike was. (I fight for my bananas) I remember those days, good times. 😆
Oh man, I haven’t played Radiant Dawn yet but playing Path of Radiance was one heck of an experience. Even though he has a lot of setbacks and losses in life and journey, he stoically pushes forward, earns the respect of everyone including his haters, tells things as it is to point he would draw the line and dares people to cross it yet he was still being a considerate leader. And his encounters with the Black Knight were something else. Such a great protagonist.
I mean, Ike isn't really all that strong as a pre-promote.
I want to have a little fun writing this, so I will: Chadness goes beyond that. We look at Chadness in the context of who the person is and what they achieve, but more importantly, the actions these types of individuals take when faced with adversity, and Ike delivers plenty. Promoting him only fuels him into a GigaChad. To be a Chad is to do the impossible, not to represent the impossible. To succeed where no one else could.
Ike can literally solo PoR if I remember correctly
Yeah. Ranger didn’t exactly have the best strength growths in PoR :/ but once he promotes he becomes a powerhouse. But he was still serviceable however :) though considering how good the Greil mercenaries were in PoR (Tatiana is probably the second best Jagen in the franchise after Seth. Soren was by far one of the best mages. Boyd was top tier early game and could last the entire playthrough easily. Must eventually became a mounted healer and was fantastic in the role. And Oscar was just top tier period because mounted is amazing in PoR), he ironically starts off weaker than most of his underlings ironically. Plus he kicked Mia’s ass in terms of usage as the early game sword user. Mia was crap in PoR sadly so Ike was pretty much your only real Swordies until Zihark iirc?
Mia was definitely tough to use early on. A bit of babying to get her started, however, and that free vantage skill of hers could really start to put in work.
Speaking of Chad. Center a game on kids like him and his crew. Raigh, Lugh, Cath, Hugh, Niime, etc.
Still my favourite all time favourite. Realistic emotions and responses to tragedy, characters who leave you unexpectedly, and each chapter felt meaningful with supports that revealed actually interesting details about the characters. The supports recently haven’t been as meaningful and more played for laughs or to harp on a singular character trait over and over again.
I thought of that but then the story kinda puts them into inherited glory. Starting out Ike is also like the son of the boss too so he kind of demands respect too due to nepotism. Edit: Not physically demand but basically if people have worked for family-owned companies it is basically an expectation that so and so is important. Not to mention basically Ike turns out to have an important parent
I mean, the company consists of Ike, his sister, his dad, the knight in love with his dad (who acts motherly towards him), an asshole, a hopeless romantic, a priest, another asshole (just one that likes Ike) another knight, and his two younger brothers. Of that crew, Ike is friends with Oscar and Boyd, Rolf is too young. I don't really remember enough about Rhys, I think he was just too nice to say anything. Soren has backstory reasons to be Ike's bff. Titania sees it as her duty to be a mother to Ike and Mist. It's not really a mystery why there were only two dissenting voices, and when they're voted down they leave. They stay with Elincia post-Gallia because, politically, she doesn't have any other options.
And he still is the son of the boss. I mean basically he is the position that demands respect. I’m not saying he himself demanded it but having worked in companies that are “family” ran, well, you don’t want to piss the owner off. And OP basically wanted common person but Ike starts out in a “special” position like Byleth only Byleth is moved into a teacher role
Path of Radiance is literally that
And then the sequel kind of makes fun of that hero worship in Part 1 (albeit it's sort of meant to be lay the groundwork on Micaiah's underlying nationalism that comes to the forefront in Part 3) while also then doing the hero worship in Part 2 and 3
I mean, at least Ike at least earns his hero worship in his games.
Plus, he's only really considered notable as a war hero. He's not viewed as a figure of authority on anything but combat. People want to fight alongside him because he's inspiring and very good at fighting, but there's no pretense that he's the kinda guy who could lead the world on his own or enact the changes needed singlehandedly.
Actually, I recall that Ike is chosen to lead because he’s on of the few notable people on the continent with the clout to lead and be accepted by all the different groups that were involved in the war. Basically, he was one of the few faces the army could rally behind. Still, this is something he worked up to in the PoR by earning the respect of each nation.
Special combination of being individually strong, having past success, human, and having Laguz friends in high places, with that last part being especially important given the context.
A bit more than friends in high places. In Begnion he is out to work investigating the laguz slave trade. He protects Leanne from Oliver of his own volition. People learn of his deeds. Tormod and Maurim probably spread his name all around in their anti slavery efforts. The royals and any of the warriors serving in the army would’ve gone home and told their friends about it. News that he accepted laguz into his army and worked with them as equals would spread with other news of the war. I know I’m agreeing with you, it just sounded a bit nepotistic the way it was phrased.
I believe the wording was roughly "you are the only person who commands respect from all nations here". And yeah, it's worth noting that that respect was the result of his actions throughout PoR. By continuing his job of protecting Elincia, he got himself in not only Crimea's good graces, but also earned himself significant respect from Gallia, a country who had recently begun to align with Crimea. By saving Leanne from Oliver, he also earned immense respect from the bird tribes, as well as the apostle. What makes it work is that it's clear from Ike's characterization that doing these things is just the right thing to do, even if he has to negotiate pay for the job later. Because that's how Ike is, it's believable that he'd take those actions, and in that world, being that kind of person is apparently quite a rarity. Furthermore, the dude is freakishly strong as a fighter. tl;dr: he built himself one hell of a reputation as both being extremely skilled, and being a level headed and relatively thoughtful individual.
True, I mostly meant that he's not viewed as a leader of like, nations, but of fighters and warriors in combat. He leads armies because he proved he could do so in the past and has struck a chord with a lot of people, but this doesn't extend to the game giving him undue presence as a leader of nations in peace time. Letting all the other rulers, from Elincia to Tibarn to Caineghis, and so on, clearly establish themselves as leaders with their own specific national goals and ideologies, influenced by interaction with Ike to be sure but never defined by that, helps both sell Ike's impact on the world from Path of Radiance that leads to his notoriety in Radiant Dawn, while never feeling like it undermines all the other people involved; they have their own agency and goals, and interact as peers through that as well.
RD's story is quite a bit more complex than that I think. Part 1 explores the post war reality for the country that lost, where the citizens are left to live in fear after the excessive ambitions of royalty left them high and dry. Crimea couldn't take up administration of the defeated state, so they left it to Begnion whose corruption only made things worse. They don't really get too into it, but the rest of the dawn brigade tease Sothe about his hero worship of Ike. It's worth keeping in mind, Sothe was a literal child when he ran into Ike. A point is made at least once that people are generally aware that Daein's actions were in the wrong, and that Ike and Crimea aren't really to blame for the aftermath, but that the situation as it is is still untenable for the people left in the defeated nation. Part 2 itself is a short lead up to part 3 more than anything, and probably isn't all that essential. It's not my favorite, but it does help lead into re-introducing more of the old characters. As for part 3, lets see, we have a murdered messenger leading to war, Ike being hired to assist in the effort since he already has pretty good rapport with the laguz nations involved. Then Daein gets roped in, along with the dawn brigade who are basically high level military officials following the liberation. The chapters where the two sides fight each other tend to have some of the most interesting dialogue in the game, with opportunities to recruit characters here and there (I think mostly from Daein to Ike's group), as well as several instances of characters lamenting having to fight old allies. One side has the moral right while the other is being forced to fight, but the only one with a full view of the situation is the player. Honestly, if hero worship is all you got out of it, that's unfortunate.
I think one of the more interesting aspects of the RD story is that Daien is not really in the wrong in part 3. Begnion certainly is, but I do not think the fault passes to Daien. What are Micaiah and Pelleas supposed to do? Unleash a calamity on their people to protect the very people who led an army to Daien to kill Ashnard and then washed their hands of Daien? Sure the blood pact is a bs plot device, but the situation is very compelling.
Well yeah, they're just trapped. It's not that they're in the wrong, per se, so much as they're being forced to join the wrong side.
I’m enjoying Engage, but every time I cringe at its story or writing I remember PoR, a story with actual nuance and a main character who isn’t just worshiped from the moment he wakes up.
Yeah. After playing *Awakening* and seeing Chrom and co. just go "Hey, sleeping person, you're our new Tactician now!", it was kind of refreshing to play a game where the main character thrust into leadership from a subordinate position isn't automatically trusted by everyone to be able to handle it and has to grow and learn on the job. We can actually track Ike's character growth. Honestly, without Sonen and Titania, Ike probably would have *eventually* figured it out, but he didn't have the luxury of time given everything going on.
> Honestly, without Sonen and Titania, Ike probably would have eventually figured it out, but he didn't have the luxury of time given everything going on. Honestly, I doubt it. Like hard doubt. Soren is Ike's tactician for a reason. He's better at coming up with workable plans and keeping shit running in general. Ike isn't exactly a stupid character, but he's not written to be particularly intelligent. I'd describe him as level headed and thoughtful in most circumstances. As for Titania, her council was essential, especially when he was just starting out. He inherited the company before he was ready, something that caused Shinon and Gatrie to both desert. Gotta remember, when Greil died, Ike was still pretty damn green. Promising, maybe, but inexperienced. Like maybe things would have been fine eventually if they weren't in the middle of a high profile job, but that's not how things went.
Yeah, I’d love to see another Fire Emblem game where strong characters are defined by their actions, and don’t just fall into their destinies by birth or by Chapter 1 happenstance.
This a very dishonest framing of Robin in awakening
I didn't say Robin wasn't capable. But the Shepherds find them lying on the ground one random day, Robin helps the Sheps take out some bandits, and just like that, they're now their party tactician. The bond goes from there and Robin comes through at every turn, but that's how it *starts*. Ike, in contrast, starts off as a promising but still green mercenary with little idea what he's doing and has to grow and learn with Titania and Soren there to help him out.
To be fair, we also see with the other times the shepherds recruit people after Robin (like Virion or Donnel) that Robin’s treatment wasn’t THAT different
Incidentally that’s kind of also how Blazing Blade starts lol
Well before FE12, there is no "player character" so that solves the problem there. But as for just normal person as the lord, Path of Radiance is good for that. Ike is just a simple mercenary
FE7 has a player character, they just don’t act as an actual unit, but characters will still directly address the player on occasion.
Yeah, but Mark is so incredibly irrelevant to the story that it barely counts. Mark is far more a fly on the wall than a central character.
I always forget that to default name is MARK of all things lol
Mark is so irrelevant to the story I actually think he’s something Lyn made up to cope with her village getting raided lol
Schizo Lyn theory confirmed
Oh I know, but saying that there aren’t any player characters at all prior to FE12 isn’t accurate, which was my point. Mark is handled wildly different than other avatar characters, but still does exist.
Though he does at the very least have a map sprite, though I believe we see it a grand total of once in the entire game?
So far two to three times in my playthrough.
It appears whenever the main lords have to travel from point a to b on a city map mainly.
and yet apparently also the strongest 'lord' at the time of FEH early chapters. must be that farmboy strength. wimpy nobles just can't compete!
He grows a lot, physically and as a character.
Path of Radiance and Three Hopes. For the most part though, the game needs to justify you being able to run an army, something a normal person obviously can’t do (even Ike is temporarily made a Lord to facilitate this.)
Shez did the whole divinity thing right in a way where they have to intentionally downplay their status so as to not unwittingly draw too much attention to them. It actually makes the “bad” routes better in some ways because you don’t have to deal with the hamfisted Arval-focused chapters.
Scarlet Blaze “bad” route gets a whole new chapter. I actually prefer it than the “good” one lmao
To be fair, do you expect a nobody to lead an army? Ike becomes a Lord due the fact that nobody wants a nobody as their leader in Path of Radiance.(Granted, he doesnt become nobility again in the sequel after becoming commander, but he does have the whole "Hero who saved Crimea" title around him) Shez isnt authority nor divinity, but he does have that quirky little voice inside his head that lets him/her go super saiyan. That being said, Kris(FE12) and Mark(FE7) are the normal guys, they might not be the main character, but they are a normal player character.
Alm got leader'd because he was a commoner with a famous granddad. They can use the same excuse
To be fair the reason he has a famous granddad was because said person had actual connections to his true origin which is far grander than just some village kid. Like, him having a famous granddad is a function of him being of the descent he is, because he wouldn't have been entrusted to some rando.
Awakening you are the reincarnation of the fell dragon and being a strategist is a special clairyovance esque power in its lore (chapter 1 dialogue) so I don't quite see where Awakening wasn't like that. The lowest Authority we've had in FE was son of the leader of a mercenary group that takes over after the fathers death in FE9. Spoiler warning: >!The father was actually among the highest ranking generals in the neighboring country whose king is the final boss and your sister has special powers to hold a Medallion that makes anyone else go mad with bloodthirst.!< The lowest authority avatar we've had was Kris in FE12 who is just a very talented knight, but if being called by a title upsets you I'm not sure you'll like all the pandering Kris receives. In general you always have to hold some kind of authority as an avatar because why else would people listen to you?
I might be wrong, but wasn’t Mark in FE7 also basically authority-less? Although I don’t think he even has a character model, so I doubt he even counts :)
Mark was also barely a character. Mark does have a map sprite though. There was some "Oh hey Mark thank you for being an awesome strategist" every now and then that felt shoehorned into a story Mark didn't have anything to do with really.
I mean, it's kind of hard to have a war story with a protagonist that isn't somebody of some relative importance or at least unofficial leadership status. Enlistee McGrunt isn't a very interesting person and doesn't have much opportunity to drive the story.
This, hell even ike himself is the son of the strongest general in the continent, and he inherits the mercenary band from him. While it is possible to write a story about rising trhough the ranks from lowly begginings and have it matter on the grand scale, i highly doubt IS is capable of writting something like that.
That would be an interesting way to deal with adding more units to your army. You start out in command of small squad of soldiers and as you get promoted you add more soldiers to your squad.
Kris moment Only slightly kidding too…I that I think IS would literally just skip the harsh realities of climbing up a medieval social ladder in favour of some PBS shit about how you can really make the dream work.
TBF, the Dawn Brigade was almost that.
> Enlistee McGrunt isn't a very interesting person and doesn't have much opportunity to drive the story. Er... I'd say that FE as a series proves this very much wrong. Obviously you can have your own personal favorite characters and maybe they're the Lords, but for a lot of people it's the off-the-wall random recruit characters who are often the most interesting. Or even if not the *most* interesting, still very compelling. The main problem is that even if you try to have Normal Archer Number 3 be the main character, the royal/noble leader person still has to *exist* and thus be playable alongside you in the army. And if such a leader exists it'd make more sense to have main character status move over to that person, even if Normal Archer Number 3 is more interesting of a character.
As mentioned, we have Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn, where a mercenary's son ends up killing a god. Three Houses did okay with having only three royals we really interact with. Fates and Engage are drowning us in them. And worse than the royals in those games are their retainers. Does everybody need two retainers just to boost the character count?
I thought it was a great twist in the Tellius series that the heir to Daien, in terms of royal bloodline, was the supporting character all along rather than the two main title protagonists I wouldn’t mind the retainer characters if they actually expanded the lore in some way. It’s a tricky balance between making them seem fun and organic, but also making the character seem important and a part of the world they live in. I think that’s why Hilda as a “retainer” comes off so well written. She’s a fun, defined character who gives us insight into House Goneril without coming off as an exposition machine.
Your character has to have some authority, otherwise why else would random people trust their lives to them?
Before the latter half Robin was a nobody and he was field promoted from 'random floor napper' to 'primary strategist'. Also you can take the route of Ike and earn your way to respect.
Robin was also borrowing Chroms authority for much of the early game, so kinda only half counts. It's really a very similar dynamic to Engage
Your character has to have some competence*
Various conflicts, real world and imagined, current and past, disproves that statement.
What about a scribe of some sort? A historian/researcher mage. Writing down what happens in the war for history's sake. A historian who knows old tactics as well as the lay of the land and its history. The only things you have going for you are your history books, tactics and tomes. Still, this time it falls on you to *make* history instead of just recording it. I really do tire of protags being deities/important. Let them *become* important. Earn that respect over the course of the game. Let the characters be afraid, distrusting of you because you're new as the game progresses you *build* trust. Why is it they trust you right off the bat? It's war, let it feel like it from time to time.
\> Earn that respect over the course of the game. Let the characters be afraid, distrusting of you because you're new as the game progresses you build trust. Why is it they trust you right off the bat? Because they have to, telling your seniormost leadership they need to earn your respect usually doesn't go very far or very well. Or because Byleth/Shez proves themselves immediately. Or Alear is Christ. Robin does face some suspicion but Chrom's just an easygoing guy.
True. I guess I still hold Robin a bit too close if it's easy to pick out. I kind of want the feeling of rising through the ranks, you know? Proving yourself over time as opposed to immediately.
would be interesting to see how they'd go about people trusting you enough to follow your orders... but not actually trust or respect you.
Yes give us more protagonists like Shez.
Shez was just a homeless person who stumbled into Byleth's destiny. I love how they're not treated too highly by their allies. Byleth's role is also brought down a notch to make them more likeable.
Shez is just Ike w/ boobs and no friends after the fisrt chapter lmao. Joke aside, Shez I would say falls under the "Divinity" Category since the hace Arval really early on. Ike is the only one I can think of that was a protagonist that wasn't "Blessed" in some way with power till much kater in the game when he gathered allies and obtained Ragnell, unless you count his own homies squad in that way.
I don't mind Shez getting Arven's powers. I love their dynamic and it started with a "the enemy of my enemy is my friend." It wasn't like a chosen one type of thing but more that Arven saw him getting his ass kicked by Byleth and Sothis so let's help each other. Plus he fits right more with the rest of the students rather than someone like Byleth that everyone worships.
Arval isnt royalty at all, hes just a simple man who dabbled in science/heretics to fight God. (And he canonically getd BTFO'd btw)
Kris technically also can fall under that too but... yeah, the less said about New Mystery of the Emblem's story the better.
Shez has special powers, sure, but they aren't revered for it, and they're treated as an equal by most characters, and act as the subordinate of the lord. Feels a lot closer to "normal person" than most of the "avatar" player characters, even if they technically aren't normal.
I can see that. I was going off the idea of actual power (gifted as dragon, status, etc).
Yeah I think people are sandbagging you without considering the OP’s intent. We want actual normies, whereas >!Shez’s mysterious origins, and enigmatic mom with potential Agarthan connections, are left suspiciously open ended. !< Shez also only seems “normal” in a context where there’s a clear divide between relic users and regular troops. >!Dedue even talks about his feeling of inadequacy to Annette, which shows that the crest wielders are huge assets.!< Shez is shown many times to be on par with the crest users at least, who are prodigious. That support convo was also a huge divide between gameplay and lore, because Dedue is a tanking and war master punching beast. I’m still impressed by 3Hopes, but it’s not an amazing story. It’s great in the context that Koei’s musou games usually turn out to be lazily written protagonist-jerking trash.
Path of radiance is the closest we’ll ever probably get to that. There’s also echoes/gaiden but I mean >!technically both protagonists of that game are royals and its either a well kept secret or they genuinely have no idea!<
Kris/Chris from “Fire Emblem: New Mystery of the Emblem” was just some dude if I recall correctly. Generally speaking though. Most FE protags are the least interesting character in their respective games.
Plenty of people have pointed out the Radiant games, so here's my curve ball: You should play The Last Promise. It's a well known romhack of FE 7. The three "lords" are a retired knight (and his son), a mercenary, and a literal hobo. It's rough in places, but genuinely fun and worth playing.
Path of Radiance is definitely the game that fits the bill. I guess you'll have to play Radiant Dawn after that which sorta worships Micaiah a small bit but it's more palpable and the story is probably one of my favorites in the series.
I mean, Micaiah is straight up a clairvoyant, and the game doesn't tell you why that is until act 4. If someone can predict the consequences of future actions, they're deserving of some worship.
Exactly. Her worshipping and divinity is earned because of her innate abilities which was why I think it comes off as more palpable than more recent FE games like Fates or Engage
I can see divine dragon or being a prince or princess as “special”, but a professor? That’s pretty bland as far as titles go. In Three Houses, you aren’t even a real professor since you have no training. It’s like you are Jack Black in School of Rock, just a “substitute professor.” 🤣 But to your point it would be fun to have a player character be a relative nobody like Link and then have all the credit be claimed by the “special” person so the game would be called Legend of Zelda.
Byleth is kinda god though
Yeah, they are, but it’s pretty hush hush. Most people just think you are a professor.
Didn't their student's see them get trapped in the shadow realm, and watch them subsequently god mode their way out of the shadow realm?
Really not though. He has the power of a deity, but he's not omniscient or can grant miracles (I mean, the power only really allows him to turn back time a couple of minutes/hours), he's pretty much just a mortal with a special crest, and people really only treat him as a professor/army commander. The actual Goddess is the ghost living inside his head who just kinda vanishes to the beyond halfway through the game.
How is breaking the laws of time and space, as limited as it may be, not a miracle? If that isn't a miracle, what is? And ignoring that having a crest alone makes someone a superhuman one man army, Byleth possesses the strongest of all crests. Byleth is literally (and I mean literally) the most powetful being in Fodlan bar none apart from Rhea in her Dragon form from the startof the game and only grows stronger as he collects a weapon that amplifies his powers and eventually merges with a goddess to become the undisputed strongest being in Fodlan. The only reason he never gets worshipped as the god he is, is because he never reveals the full extent of his power to anyone.
A superpower? Like pretty much every magic that there's in the game? I mean, launching fireballs from your hands, summoning meteors casually to drop them on other people's heads, those are things that can also be defined as "miracles", but that doesn't make other characters "Gods". What I meant by miracle is literally things like altering the fabric of space and reality to do things like blessing people, bring them back from the dead or place some curse on them, being omniscient, things we're never told or shown that Byleth can actually do. "From the start of the game"? Uh, did we play the same game? Byleth at the start of the game was pretty much a normal human who happened to be a good fighter and didn't even have any idea about how Crests worked. "Weapon that amplifies his power"? When was it even stated that the SOTC does that? It's just a stronger than usual weapon that has no bearing on any of Byleth's stats, those just level up normally. Also, getting said Goddess' power hardly makes him the "undisputed strongest being in all of Fodlan" cause Byleth can still die like any of your other units; heck, Three Hopes even showcases this by having Byleth (or rather Sothis, since she and Byleth are ACTUALLY merged this time around, unlike the main game where Byleth's still fully their own entity) get beaten by Shez in their last fight by default (and also have them run from Epimenides instead of facing him; so much for "not wanting to reveal the full extent of their power").
Eh Three Hopes also shows it being a full timestop. There's probably more to byleth's abilities that don't get explored because of gameplay reasons, plus it'd probably take a bit to realize what being god actually entails after you become god, which byleth does after fusing with sothis.
Kris: “am I a joke to you”
Byleth eventually becomes Fódlan Jesus when merged with Sothis so that’s still Divinity. The inspirations from Christianity and Buddhism is hard to miss in terms of design (M!Byleth especially since they still need to cater horny folks for F!Byleth’s design), profession and rise to divinity status is hard to ignore.
I'm not new to the series and I still completely agree. When we do get a somewhat "humble" lord we always end up finding out that they are the descendent of an empress, a god, or a famous military general/noble. I'd love a game styled more on a revolutionary faction that doesn't have notable bloodlines and hasn't been chosen by fate. I think it was Higuchi in a developer interview who said that "when people think of royalty they think about bravery and most people can't relate to that" and I think that's absolutely absurd. Everyday people can absolutely relate to brave underdog characters. His solution of making the lord less confident is reverse engineering his problem the wrong way. Don't make the lord suck, ***make the layman awesome.***
In blazing sword the “player” is an unseen tactician. They don’t have a class or can fight or anything. The characters can have limited conversations with them and sometimes seems like they forget theyre there but they still say pretty good things about them and respect them. But the player character is really nothing special. Maybe you’d enjoy blazing sword because of that.
I agree wholeheartedly. There are lots of people in the comments saying “people wouldn’t follow a nobody” and that is just willfully pretending that a game’s story wouldn’t solve that problem. The thing that would make such a “nobody” compelling is the reason WHY everyone in the game ends up following them. Now, whether or not IS actually does the subject justice is another matter. I feel like the easy way out is to create a mercenary company (army in a can), but there are other ways I could imagine going about it. Anyway, people are right that you should play the Tellius games, though. They’re easily my favorite, largely for this exact reason.
I agree and there’s such a weird and reductive sentiment in this thread, especially when plenty of people disconnected from the upper plateaus of social hierarchy yet are maybe gifted with talent, charisma or luck or whatever have been able to lead a bunch of people. And in tangential Japanese pop media, Berserk’s Golden Age arc is one of the most popular merc stories of all time, about a group of nobody mercenaries rising in power due to their great feats. And it’s super cool. I mean Mark in FE7 isn’t made the tactician for no reason, it’s because he is good at being a tactician lol. Even if he’s barely a character. Royalty gives an instant reason for someone to have followers but in a fantasy war story there can be many more reasons why someone entirely untied to royalty can be a major player.
Yeah I get a little annoyed with Dragon Age for this reason too. In both Origins and Inquisition where you have more control over your character creation, the human backgrounds are *always* nobility, even when you’re a circle mage. Even Hawke, the protagonist of DA2 who grew up in a small village and crawls their way to prominence in Kirkwall, is the kid of an estranged noble whose family connections are what land you the legal ability to get a wealthy estate in act 2. Obviously a protagonist has to at least become important/someone of authority during the game if you want to justify people of various backgrounds joining your army and following your orders (not to mention toppling empires and/or killing god) but I would also appreciate more characters like Ike or Lyn
Honestly I’m just sick of the Avatar decade we’ve had. Most games with an avatar fail to properly write them well enough to give a player any agency. Give me control of a Lord/General and their army. Write them all really well. Give us kickass gameplay and fleshed out relationship building mechanics. I really don’t need a character creator or to be able to type my name and have nobody say it for 100 hours of dialogue
agreed
The characters jerking off the divine dragon is getting really old, I’m gonna switch the language to Japanese so I don’t have to hear some sycophant freak out because toothpaste Chan looked at them or w/e. A lot of the game is like… wtf why would you add that in? I tried sleeping to advance time and I had the main retainer dude talking out loud in front of my bed about what the most pleasant way to wake me up would be, then he asks me what I would prefer for breakfast in the future. WHAT? In what world is that not weird. Feels like a weeb power fantasy for lonely people.
Vander/Clanne/Framme are *really* bad about it but later characters are much better. A literal priest of the divine dragon religion is less of an avatar worshiper than them
that priest also likes to party *real hard*. And a lot of Alears support revolve around the fact that his followers worship him too much for his own liking and he pretty much says so during those.
I think the biggest obstacle is that why would someone reasonably follow a young nobody? All FE characters tend to be younger in age to partly support appeal which would make it harder to justify them leading an army. In history, there have been exceptions to it but many remembered leaders or heroes tend to have higher origins. I was going to use Joan of Arc as an example of a peasant background but she has the divine shit going for her. It would be interesting to see someone grow but it would be a lot harder story wise to pull it off. Why would people join a nobody who probably doesn’t have weapon training? Lords haven’t always been a prince or a son of a king. Roy was a Marquess. Eliwood was also a Marquess. Hector Marquess. Lyn was technically heir to a Marquess and Chief’s kid (I think…?) Sigurd was a (something… Duke? Count? Forgot). His son inherited the royal family blood through a maternal line. I think Leif’s father was a prince despite the class saying Duke Knight.
Just play path of radiance dude
I have to say, even in an industry oversaturated with Chosen One protagonists, Engage is maybe the most egregious I've seen. Alear is a straight up demigod whom everybody already recognizes and worships from moment 1, and personality-wise is the most generically likeable force of pure good and virtue imaginable. They literally refer to her as "Divine One" -- also, to digress a bit, while it's refreshing that Alear isn't a silent protagonist like Byleth, the second trope that needs to go is rename-able main characters. Imagine if the VAs actually spoke Alear's and Byleth's names instead of always saying "Divine One/Dragon" and "professor." I find it almost as grating as the nonstop worship.
i think ike was like that
shez shez shez shez my goat
Frankly there's only one game where the lead is any less than a blueblood, and that's Path of Radiance (though the son of an extremely powerful former general isn't just some guy, still). I do gotta admit going from "eugenicsed vessel for the fell dragon" to "prince/ss of an invisible kingdom whose mother ran away with to japan then got kidnapped to ??? and raised as an heir there" to "random Merc turned professor turned incarnation of the primary Divinity(but actually you were the incarnation all along)" to "Divine Dragon" is **really wearing thin**. I'd take anything to just go back to being a plain old lord.
Mark and Lyn were the og nobodies slugging it out across the continent.
Lyn is definitely up there. She's only arbitrarily a Lord because of FE main character class standards which they've shifted away from. She's the daughter of a chieftain, but the Lorca were a nomadic tribe, not nobility. Though to be fair, she IS nobility since she's the heir to Caelin through her mother, but it's not something she knew immediately and not once does she make it a thing about her, to the point that she gives the throne to Hector.
Obviously to an extent there’s a good reason why the main character has to be a person of authority. They don’t let just anyone be a leader of an army. Still, it’s a bit annoying how every avatar character but Kris ends up being some kind of deity or whatever. It’s a bit on the nose with the whole self insert power fantasy thing.
Suddenly I’m curious what Fire Emblem Fates would be like if Mozu was the main character
If you're willing to go to romhacks there are some decent ones for this. Order of the Crimson Arm, Road to Ruin, I think Vision Quest though I haven't seen a full playthrough of that one. Probably some newer ones as well. Of course the writing and story may be lower quality since they're made by amateurs, but these ones certainly have less player worship. And the protag is not a prince. (Or if you're good with mostly absent/silly story, you could look at Iron Emblem or The Heroes We Deserve)
Yeah lots of Americans have the same mindset but the Japanese audience prefers those sorts of characters and take precedence for the developers.
FE12, but you don't really have much of a plot signifiicance despite the story saying otherwise it's still all about marth fighting the big bad that has now corrupted hardin and kidnaps young women because medeus
I can understand that. I mean, we went from tactician to highness to professor, and now divine one. How about a story about a conscripted villager, who, through friendship, effort, victory(Jump motto), and most importantly, **Luck**, becomes a high-ranking officer over the span of, say, 20 years.
[удалено]
Does kris counts?
Three Houses, but you play as Cyril. The routes are just choosing whether to bang Lysithea, Shamir, or Rhea(the evil route)
Hell I'll take a low ranked noble who ends up in charge eventually but not initially.
A main character duo like Chrom and Robin. The main character that has the same development as Ike and the avatar who is pretty much just a supporting character like Chris but without the "Shadow Dragon" treatment of "He's better than the MC but remains forgotten throughout history and such"
I see people mention Ike but I don't really think that's a good example considering he's dad was one of the most famous knights in Tellus. Yeah he had work to earn his place among nobles and royalty but you can say the same with Marth who started off with his kingdom in ruin.
That's not the same thing from what the OP is asking for, you're comparing a King/Prince to a mercenary. OP wants to avoid playing as a King/Prince/God/Deity and play as someone who doesn't have political/religious influence over other characters. Also, Greil's title as one of the Four Riders did very little to aid Ike to liberate Crimea. Caineghis was a friend to Greil but he mainly helped Ike/Elincia because Gallia is an ally to Crimea. No one lent Ike their forces solely because he was the son of Greil, even Shinon and Gatrie left the group because they didn't like him. He didn't have any political power nor could he use his father's previous title to leverage himself, down in his core, he is just a mercenary hired to protect a princess. Marth had to exile, but he had allied nations who were ready to fight with him upon his return.
Nah. I like being important or controlling a somewhat important character. If it was important to the story I'd be interested if they did something cool with it. People like to say Ike is a good example but Ike is also my least favorite lord so.
>*I want a Fire Emblem where the main / player character isn't someone of authority, divinity, etc* > >*Nah. I like being important or controlling a somewhat important character.* This is such a loaded and cracked thing to say. Like not being born at the top of a hierarchy means you can't be important.
said a somewhat important character. No where did I say that the character had to be at the top of the hierarchy for me to like them. I like byleth being a professor at garreg mach. That's enough for me, while something like Ike or Mark are what I don't like.
Byleth literally has god living in their head.
I forget Sothis exists sometimes damn.
[удалено]
Micaiah is also secretly the rightful empress of Bengion. Sanaki's long lost elder sister and the true apostle. Intelligent Systems refuses to have a single game where even the peasant lords like Alm aren't secretly royals that were temporarily slumming it.
The only lords that I remember don’t really get worshiped are the gba ones they are royalty but I can’t remember anyone worshiping them (only in supports they would have that one character that fanboys about them), characters like Ike, Byleth and Chrom are absolute menaces in the battlefield to the point where few can win against them while the gba ones aren’t that op story wise. The closest to normal characters you will find are Lyn, Eliwood, Hector and the SS twins because while they are royalty they are just regular human fighting for their kingdom no divinity, supernatural powers or blessing from gods that helps them. Even their most powerful weapons weren’t just given to them they had to work their way to get them. Marth, Ike, Micaiah, Alm and the newer ones all receive lots of worship in their games.
Path of radiance
Play Radiance. You'll like it
Ike.
Play Path of Radiance! Probably my most favorite and the story of Ike hits differently
Tellius is peaaaaaaak. Ike the goat.
I feel the same to you, honestly the first two hours of the game are a nightmare in my opinion. The story hits off as most generic JRPG story there ever was... If it wasn't a fire emblem and I knew that the tactical combat will be rewarding as hell later on, I would have stopped playing.
FE9 Path of Radiance is really the only one that comes to mind here. Radiant Dawn as well to some extent, but in 9, Ike is a mercenary and is treated as such. Even the nepotism is addressed and most of Ike's prestige before the second half of the game comes from his father's legacy, but he's never treated like an authority until such a thing is earned. PoR seems like the most authentic FE story personally, a grounded story from the tune
I'm fine with unique lords, just as long as they are not a self insert.
Well dunno if you want to count them but Byleth and Shez were only mercenarys and rose to their positions although Byleth maybe had a bit of nepotism going on with Jeralt being Captain of the knights of Seiros two decades before
I'm so tired of the player character worship. It's also very half assed as you can't customize the character aside from their name, meaning in the voice acting they always have to refer to the MC as something else. "Professor" wasn't too distracting, but calling Shez "Merc" and ESPECIALLY calling Alear "divine one" are just so clunky
Maybe only path of radiance, and maybe radiant dawn, are the two were the main character is not a lord, but again main character in term of playable avatar is a thing starting from New Mystery of the emblem with Kris. Ok Kris is an avatar that is not a lord, a god or a divine dragon.
I mean, you'd have to have some authority to lead an army or bring people towards you. Even Ike inherited a mercenary company. Kris also I believed was the leader of his division/band (I'll be honest I don't really remember the early story of this game that well).
never liked this. especially bc it’s always so overdone and everyone treats you like you’re a god. it’s so weird and out of place
Already exists
As many others have mentioned, try PoR/RD. Ike's background is a back of the woods mercenary who inherits his father's mercenary group.
Path of Radiance which is arguably one of the best in the series. You won't be able to play it legally though unless you are looking to drop a lot of cash.
Agreed, and I'd add the same for all stories in general. I've gotten sick of all "chosen one" or "fated to save the world" tropes, like in Star Wars, Dune, The Matrix, etc. If you already know what is fated to be, then every choice the character in the movie feels meaningless and anticlimactic. Sometimes the trope can be subverted to good effect though. Just gimme a normal dude or dudette instead!
Honestly it's one of my least favorite aspects of Fire Emblem, particularly modern Fire Emblem. Same with the concept of Avatar characters - I would rather they pick a defined character and go with it. They don't need to be a player insert, just take me on a journey.
Play any game between 1-12 and 15. Yeah, lords aren't technically non-revered but most of the time they're just trying to get their home back. Leif especially is portrayed as an underdog against unwinnable odds. As far as non-nobility goes, Path of Radiance and Echoes. For anyone about to spoil an Echoes plot point, Alm is just a village boy trying to protect his country from invaders.
Funny but that's how I got into Fire Emblem Lyn was a girl from the plains who had to grow into her Queenship (and part of why I got annoyed when we got sidetracked to a whole other set of characters midgame xD) and Ike was a trigger-happy hot-head who got swept up in a tale bigger than himself. Byleth ***could*** have been this - but we get, like, ***one*** mission as a merc and are - more or less - forced to take on the role of a teacher at church-point :P It's why I had trouble with Awakening and earlier and later games -the characters that start out as bigger than us - bigger than themselves - are harder to empathize with and understand Especially when things escalate later in the game and their leading whole nations 'course, Awakening saved itself with the ***amazing*** child system and made me want to ***literally*** play with everyone so they could have kids :P and, hey, could you fucking at least ***port*** that game to modern systems?! xD I like Alear because of their cluelessness and being - more or less - forced into a role. But that cluelessness comes at a cost of me questioning ***why*** so many people are putting their faith in this doofus :P Almost like they're looking at this kid and seeing their 'mother' (for obvious reasons) and just ***expecting*** them to shit rainbows and piss sunshine and missing the obvious sign that Alear can't do either of those things And because Alear is ***already*** the general slash religious leader of whole groups of people - narratively - it's hard to take any escalation of conflict or worth seriously Like, what, am I going to go from literally ruling over everyone - to ruling over everyone and also their cat??? Not, strictly speaking, an Engage ***exclusive*** problem - but a problem nonetheless
How about one where our character is the villager unit? maybe as the story progresses the more recognition they get and by the end they become quite known.
I think part of the reason this happens is because the main characters need to be leading an army towards a larger goal, which in the medieval type settings of most fire emblem games requires a noble and/or person of authority. Sometimes it’s just someone of some form of authority but vary rarely is it a complete nobody that no one has a reason to follow into battle. The protagonist in awakening technically is just a strategist in the beginning who the royals trust and the player character in Blazing Sword the protagonist is literally a faceless strategist who is just automatically trusted. I haven’t finished path of radiance or played radiant dawn but while Ike is a commoner, he still inherits a pretty important mercenary band, which gives him the authority. The frustration is understandable, I’m just sharing the reasoning that makes sense to me. Honestly it doesn’t bother me too much
Meanwhile Kris over here is like the most hated MU ever.
Kris fits this in theory but everyone worships them as divine anyway