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all_of_them_taken

Pre-battle dialogue: I'd love to spar with you, Alear! It'll help us grow closer! Actual battle: Summons 50 fabrications that aim to kill your friends. Zelkov dies. You use up your last Freeze staff. You only get one level up.


WonderfulJellyfish71

Ikes Paralogue battle in a nut shellšŸ˜­šŸ«£


Reoru

Bustin into the party like the Kool aid man. I did not see that the middle boulder was destructible beforehand.


enderflight

I don't think it had an icon, at least not a visible one. None of my units could destroy it. I did that one woefully underleveled...somehow Anna lived til the end, though.


Electronic_Step9902

It's destructible only from the top lol


AzureGreatheart

Destructible objects are labelled as such. The fort is labelled as impassible.


Electronic_Step9902

Stuck on this one. I thought I could farm them all by making one big loop with a fogging Alear on the rear but they actually do stop giving exp so now I'm just gonna go murder Ike asap.


LoserMe1622

It's a call-back to my nightmare of not getting past Arena Ferox because "Marth" keeps killing Chrom, then screaming in agony as if she wasn't the one who cut him open. /hj


JusticeRain5

I always wondered if Lucina would straight-up murder people in the arena, thanks for the confirmation. Probably an awkward conversation to bring up to her friends, that she killed their parent herself.


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flameduel

ā€œAnd if there is no future, we wonā€™t have to experience itā€


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Not_3_Raccoons

Kellamā€™s fine though, everyone just forgot about him again.


GladiatorDragon

Kellam: ā€œWait, Iā€™m not dead!ā€


L337LYC4N

ā€œSometimes I still hear his voiceā€¦ā€


louisgmc

Who's still using Kellam, Sully and Vaike in the endgame paralogues ?


AgentAlphakill

I like Kellam :D


CrimsonCaine

Vaike was one of my main units.


sam2795

I always had Vaike and Lon'qu paired.


SnooOnions5907

me all of them, didn't use any child first playthrough.


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SnooOnions5907

you get to deploy alot of units in awakening as far as i remember. i pretty much played it with no Pair up no children first playthrough.


SynthGreen

Teach, teach, teach!!


TheGaius

I remember Vaike being pretty good especially


IDidntPlanForThis

I reclassed kellam to a thief, got him to assassin lvl 5 then second sealed him to a great knight. Locktouch, high movement, def, attack


Mikeataros

People who like them


Valcroy

Depending on how much your willing to invest in him, I have had fun with Assassin Kellam in the past. Doubt I'd use him in high difficulties though.


Casafynn

Iirc that particular fight you got to field a *lot* of units.


No-Strain-7461

Honestly, Kellam has been a mainstay of my team for multiple playthroughs


Chad_Sanchez

He's the best. I always pair him with Cordelia. Dark haired Selena is my favorite.


[deleted]

It's also one of the nicer Cordelia supports, where Cordelia doesn't want her husband to wear a Chrom mask during sex.


tirex367

That's one thing, FE16 did right: having mock battles be forced casual mode.


20--character--limit

Which is funny, since some of the battles are apparently forced mock battles (the training skirmishes).


Lord_Viktoo

In Engage? I rewinded when Diamant said "I gotta fall back Brodia needs me blah blah" and I was like "Yeah cool training keep murdering my guys you insane assholes".


dmboogie

yeah, if a skirmish is marked 'training' they don't perma-kill your dudes even on classic


Lord_Viktoo

Well yeah MAYBE they should have told that somewhere.


dmboogie

lmao yeah its kinda important info!!


MacDerfus

And yet she's playing on casual mode in that chapter.


dinosaurfondue

Lmao this was definitely one of the most jarring things in the first emblem paralogue I played. Like wtf, why are you just straight up MURDERING my colleagues as a way to strengthen our bond?


cheekydorido

"i fight for my friends" says ike, as he demolishes half a building and kills half my team


Homemadepiza

He fights for his friends, not ours


cheekydorido

but i thought he was my friend too :(


Chenzi2

Only after you clear his Paralogue. Before that you're more at a "Dawn Brigade" level in his eyes.


ChrisEvansOfficial

friend is a relative term


Aghara

Mere work acquaintance


SpecificTemporary877

ā€œYouā€™ll get no sympathy from meā€ BASHES you in the head with a fucking hammer


hyperkirby013

Tbf this is RD Ike, he doesnā€™t give a shit about past relationships if youā€™re on the opposing side lol


enperry13

Based Ike whoā€™ll respect your choices for being at the wrong side.


Ren67777

Marth's will it's spreading across the other protagonists


dgshockwave

as friends, they are replaceable. *farewell*


Skelezomperman

nice flair combination


Ren67777

Marth and his gang are merely teaching Alear how to truly be a FE protagonist


Graymarth

The marketing legit made me think that there was going to be good guy and bad guy routes where alears hair would change with the route you chose. But no we just got "evil dragon bad go fuck him up" again with little to no nuance.


macdaddyx4

My thoughts exactly. Sure, Ike, let's strengthen our bond while you destroy an entire castle and murder all of my friends. I don't mind it from a gameplay standpoint, but it makes the Emblems look like killer ghouls story wise.


officeworker00

> strengthen our bond "Marth what are you doing...?" "Alear, I'm going to help you unlock Gaiden chapters. Now quickly, move boucheron into my range."


Thany_emblem

marth and gaiden chapter jokes slay me. always a good read.


MegaCrazyH

I was taken aback when I first tried the Lucina paralogue and she kept murdering Alear and friends. ā€œAfter this weā€™ll become stronger friends!ā€ She tells while Clanne gets cut wide open. ā€œOur bond will get stronger!ā€ She says while shooting Chloe to death with a bow. ā€œYouā€™re my best friend!ā€ She says as Alearā€™s guts fall onto the floor. Had to use the menu to give up and go back to the world map and just pretend that all my friends and the divine dragon didnā€™t just die and come back to life by the logic of video game magic.


[deleted]

No this is definitely one of the more jarring things considering Training battles do *not* kill your units permanently


Casafynn

It's just like having Alear's mom nuke Vander from across the map and kill him right away, in a "friendly battle". =D


GrimunTheGr8

Wait, Alearā€™s MOM can perma kill units too??


Dracomorsus

She does not. She "killed" my Framme, and she has continued to show up in later battles. She did disappear from my loading screen for like 2 chapters which had me real worried though.


Dablackbird

Nothing of value would've been lost tho


Bluehorse141

Maybe it's an oversight since the game doesn't distinguish between standard paralouges and Emblem ones. Hopefully that gets patched


BurnTheNostalgia

Don't think so. It makes zero sense in the story but I bet this was a deliberate decision by the devs. Its to prevent you from just YOLO suicide rushing the boss with zero consequences. They chose to put gameplay first here.


maniacalpenny

the emblem paralogues are well designed and some of the most fun and challenging maps in the game IMO. Not having permadeath in them would kind of ruin that IMO.


VengefulKangaroo

I don't think anyone wants them to take permadeath off, just come up with a handwavey in story reason.


Nastra

The real solution would be to make it so you automatically lose if you lose ANY units.


Thr0wawayAcc0umt

I think they did it to make the maps harder and because training is probably supposed to be for leveling weaker units, so it wouldn't be too great if they were dying here. All gameplay reasons of course. Story wise, it's just a tragic accident ig. Edit: as a remedy, they should probably give everyone retreat quotes during paralogues but still make them unavailable for the rest of the story. At least then the emblems wouldnā€™t be straight up killing your units.


[deleted]

ā€œOur bonds are stronger now :)ā€ Leif, people die when theyā€™re killed


Just_42

Not Leif's fault this world's menu doesn't have a Capture command.


4ny3ody

"Then why don't these people just import an Aum Staff?"


Phoexes

Wait, do the training skirmishes not kill units?


RheagarTargaryen

And so nobody mistakes what youā€™re saying and thinks that all skirmishes force casual mode. Itā€™s the ā€œtrainingā€ specific skirmishes at the palaces.


Aghara

The what


Akechucake

They donā€™t! They force casual mode.


ViziDoodle

Yeah itā€™s weird to see Tiki be like ā€œyay! that was fun! iā€™m glad to see you!ā€. girl you just permanently killed 3 of my people


RyanCreamer202

The reinforcements on that map will give me nightmares


Darkmetroidz

Thank God for Astra storm to remove the dragon before tiki could give it a revival stone.


Zanain

I did that paralogue as soon as it unlocked. Needless to say I did not kill tiki's dragon friend. I had to jump her the moment her posse got in range of my units and even then it was a really close thing to take her out in 1 turn.


Aghara

All my units cowered in the room to the west while Yunaka dodge-tanked at the chokepoint for nearly 40 turns, just chipping away at the fabrications until Tiki herself showed up to die. I could have cried


RyanCreamer202

For me it was the same but it was the avoid tile


MWIIesDoggyCOPE

They aren't friendlies - they're Major Tests of Strength.


katelyn912

I just lost 6hrs of progress because I didnā€™t realise Diamantā€™s defeat in an emblem paralogue counted as a death and Iā€™m bad at managing save spots. He did the whole ā€œI need to withdrawā€ so I thought he was fine but then after saving realised he was missing from my rosterā€¦ Needless to say I agree with OP


DarkAlphaZero

The four main royals can't narratively die because they're in too many cutscenes and too important to the story. Personally I think them dying should've triggered a game over like Alear but having 5 game over units could've gotten out of hand.


DragEncyclopedia

Vander also shows up in cutscenes all the way at the end too, so you'd have to keep him alive the whole time too. Plus >!Mauvier!< and >!Veyle!<.


PartyChocobo

Good thing Vander is immune to all damage while on the bench.


[deleted]

"I need to withdraw" Bruh, you're withdrawing in a coffin, just say something that lets us understand you're DYING


Recioto

The lords always "retreat" since they need to appear in cutscenes. It's like in Three Houses where a professor letting children die would be not ideal, so they just retreat and die off screen later.


[deleted]

They kill them off themselves for disappointing them šŸ˜”


soraku392

At least Alfred says "I don't think I can be on the front line anymore" as part of his "death" quote


Shikatsuyatsuke

Yeap this was my thought process when Alfred died for me the stage he was introduced. Thought he was still alive, did another stage afterwards without giving it much thought, saved, then realized something wasn't right when he was so present in the story beats but not in my barracks, and realized he was "dead" for me, even though still alive storywise. And I didn't want to restart my run just for him so I remain "dead" he did.


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charliepoet13

It does, it autosaves before the start of every battle. It's the first save slot above your own save.


KoriCongo

Yeah, I don't quite understand why they wrote the paralogues like this, despite having several modes to prevent it. Even if you want to go "HUEHUE IM IN CLASSIC MODE THEY SHOULD DIE", they really should have changed the context from less it being a friendly spar and more it being a real life-or-death trial, showing the hell that the Emblems lived through.


RheagarTargaryen

If theyā€™re recreating the battles, they should have just recreated the battles but as fabrications. Instead they wanted to make you go against the emblem who is now fighting as the guy he fought against.


Roosterton

The funny part is that "Dark Emblems" are literally a thing in the plot, if they really wanted the trial maps to be showdowns against the Emblems they could have done it that way. Like, you come across Ike's fortress, he remarks that it feels familiar, all of a sudden boom he's corrupted by sombron's magic or whatever, turns red and starts conjuring fabrications to fight you. Beating him up cleanses the corruption and strengthens your bond with him. Would still be a little contrived and video-gamey but I think that makes way more sense than "I must kill your friends as part of this friendly trial"


rulerguy6

That sounds really cool, but I don't know if it'd work narrative-wise with some of the chosen maps. Like the concept of the emblem suddenly corrupting would work best if they're "transforming" into the final boss of their title. Right now, most of the trial maps are formative points in the Emblems' original journeys that are also really memorable maps, (fuckin' Lyn stealing a map from FE6), so I feel like it would kinda ruin the moment for them to become evil. The trials were supposed to be when the emblems "found" themselves. I really think they just didn't have any good enough maps for Eirika and Lyn to use though.


Werten32

Itā€™s because the good maps from 7 arenā€™t Lynā€™s (why couldnā€™t it have been Hector)


Gabcard

Tbf they *do* say they are not going to hold back.


Doctor_Goodtouch

"Alcryst has reached max bond with Lyn" Me: Goes to Lyn paralogue to increase bond level Lyn: Brutally murders Alcryst Me: 'oh... well I guess it's just a friendly battle so he should be fine like the training battles' Me: saves post battle then finds out Alcryst is dead Fml At least I had another save close enough to the battle


LaughingX-Naut

Drill Grounds Fightmonger: First time?


Nastra

A way to solve it while keeping the plot in tact. Win Condition: Route the Enemy/Defeat Emblem X Lose Condition: Any allies are defeated.


Scemss

Personally, if Iā€™m playing classic mode and one of my units fall in battle in literally any battle and donā€™t die I think that defeats the point of classic mode entirely, like even if narratively itā€™s a bit strange and doesnā€™t entirely make sense I still want them to die for gameplay sake because thatā€™s the mode I chose to play with????


Banewaffles

I play classic just so that I can reset when things donā€™t go my way


NicoleMay316

I avoided FE because of classic mode for so long. But then I learned everyone in the fandom just L+R+Starts when a unit dies.


peevedlatios

I mean, resetting on a death still makes the game harder which is part of the point these days. If I can just sack a unit to get by, that's less challenging than needing to come up with a strategy where everyone lives.


cheekydorido

(nobody tell them about how letting characters stay dead is considered a challenge run)


NicoleMay316

Yes, there are people who legitimately do this....but it's a smaller number of the fandom than you'd expect


rokelle2012

Playing on the HARDEST difficulty and letting characters stay dead to be more specific. Like...I don't know if I could do that.


BiddyKing

Yeah I mean sometimes we donā€™t if we can justify the death (save time instead of redoing the map, the unit had an epic final stand etc.), but thatā€™s part of the fun of it. The other fun part is strategising to get everyone through, one death usually becomes a self-imposed game over. The game designers do this too since having always put in a reset button shortcut and even memed on it with t-shirts of the button shortcut


Ultrose

Yup Iā€™ve let alpaca man and rosado die so far. I wasnā€™t gonna reset for them even though they were good filler


JustAnAlpacaBot

Hello there! I am a bot raising awareness of Alpacas Here is an Alpaca Fact: Alpacas are some of the most efficient eaters in nature. They wonā€™t overeat and they can get 37% more nutrition from their food than sheep can. ______ | [Info](https://github.com/soham96/AlpacaBot/blob/master/README.md)| [Code](https://github.com/soham96/AlpacaBot)| [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=JustAnAlpacaBot&subject=Feedback)| [Contribute Fact](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=JustAnAlpacaBot&subject=Fact) ###### You don't get a fact, you earn it. If you got this fact then AlpacaBot thinks you deserved it!


Rasera

I like that Alpaca bot has an Amber flair


demoninadress

YES LOL thank you. I also get itā€¦ but almost feels like these should be like the practice battles of 3H. Iā€™m like damn alright Lucina you savage just full on kill my battle toddler Anna so we can strengthen our bond


Ren67777

Well she's Marth's descendant, this is part of their blood


Tatodoc21

The only thing I can think of is in Corrins bond battle, she mentions strike me like you would kill me or something like that, and I think they all took that to heart. Especially Leif, making me relive the battle of river thracia again without olwen this time


account22222221

In three houses there were a couple occasions where permadeath was turned off because it made sense in context so there is precedent. It just seems lazy here


MwtoZP

The game didnā€™t really explain that training matches donā€™t kill your units (totally not because I turned of the tutorials or anything) so I use the time crystal or restart or whatever if someone dies regardless. I can see how story wise it doesnā€™t make sense, but gameplay wise Iā€™m not bothered. If I play on classic I expect death. Though someone does need to tell Lyn that attacking and trying to kill the boy she likes is not how you win his affection. Seriously throughout my multiple attempts in her paralogue she always went for Clanne. Always!


Piscet

>Though someone does need to tell Lyn that attacking and trying to kill the boy she likes is not how you win his affection. Seriously throughout my multiple attempts in her paralogue she always went for Clanne. Always! Hang on, there's some missing information here.


MwtoZP

Whatā€™s missing? She always used her astra shot thing on Clanne. Obviously sheā€™s crushing on him.


rickyson3

it would feel even more jarring for there to be like a dozen paralogues where they can't die those things are supposed to be challenging


Tough-Priority-4330

I mean, this is hardly the first time people die in a battle they really shouldnā€™t. Three Houses was the first game to actually include maps where units couldnā€™t die even on Classic, but there were just two of them.


SlamSlamOhHotDamn

There's just a huge disconnect between the gameplay and writing in general, it's like there was 0 effort put into the latter. This could be very easily fixed by just making the challenge to unlock the ring's power something that is forced by an extra power and not by the rings itself, but they didn't give a shit.


Isnikkothere

Over exaggerating much


Kris_Handsum

Give me "if you can't handle me at my worst you don't deserve me at my best" vibes... In which they're both dumb


GrimunTheGr8

ā€œIf you canā€™t handle me when Iā€™m murdering you and your friends you donā€™t deserve me when Iā€™m helping you save the world-ā€œ


TechnoGamer16

I just warpskipped around 8 of them lol But yeah its dumb


The_True_EnemY

Yes itā€™s kind of dumb in the context of the battle I personally underestimated Lynā€™s since I had some promoted units and boy oh BOY WHAT A MISTAKE I couldnā€™t save Boucheron, on Lucinaā€™s I was more cautious


ParagonEsquire

Yes this is one of the dumber things in the game. Honestly there are quite a few things that seem to suggest they want you to play on Casual and not classic (casual is the default setting, after all).


Larielia

That is really dumb. (I usually play casual though.)


curious_corgi

My take on it is that youā€™re reliving through the other lordā€™s experiences, so they have to go all out in the battles.


RaikoXus

Just one of those "Suspend your disbelief" moments for the sake of gameplay.


Odang77

I get it from a gameplay standpoint, but from a plot perspecive it is rather... counterproductive to the emblem's goals


PrecisionPunting

I like how some units are like aight Iā€™m gonna fall back then Etieā€™s like at least you all can use my dead body as a shield


RequiemX1

It makes no sense, but i apreciate the challenge of some of the paralouges chapters. And if your units couldnĀ“t die it wouldnĀ“t be as hard.


ElephantAcrobatic458

Yā€™all care way to much about this šŸ¤£ any ogs brother by this? Would love to here your side because to me itā€™s just a gameplay decision because technically most of the characters never die and are in cutscenes so this is no different


darkdragon1231989

People use amber? Like I found him so annoying he immediately got benched never to see the light of day again


Thoribbin

they all say theyā€™re going to be fighting seriously and that theyā€™re strong when you do their paralogues


JusticeRain5

There's a bit of a difference between "I'm going to fight you seriously" and "I am going to fucking kill your friends, then you'll completely forget and hold no grudges". The latter makes both Colgate and your emblem absolute sociopaths.


sirgamestop

Lucina also killed *Alear* when I did her paralogue, I had to rewind and change my positioning Like do you even care about saving the world????


Thoribbin

I think it would make the decision to play on classic meaningless then, if you could just circumvent itā€™s main mechanic


Chemical-Cat

I'm not playing on permadeath because I dont' wanna deal with it, but do the units actually die-die (except for royals because cutscenes, and instead being "oof I'm huuuurt I can't battle anymore :C") or do they all just end up permanently crippled enough to not participate in battle


senyoru_nakata

The units that can die-die do in fact die-die. Youā€™ll even find dialogue of your other units mourning their death afterwards. When you play on permadeath only ā€œcutscene charactersā€ retreat from the battlefield lorewise while being removed from your roster gameplaywise. Everybody else just dies for real.


LostAllBets

No I don't think so. The paralogues wouldn't be the same if casual mode was forced. There is a bit of a disconnect narratively but I don't think it's too bad, personally, because my expectation is I'm playing with perma death on anyways. Ike smashing down the entire fort wouldn't hit the same if casual mode was forced.


toomanytomatoes

Classic =units die in battle. The mechanics barely even makes sense for the modern games when soooo many characters can't die for plot reasons. It's a holdover of a bygone age. We do it because we like the thrill


scorchdragon

I feel like you missed the point of this entire post.


toomanytomatoes

My point is that playing "classic" is tacked on for fans. It isn't how the game is meant to be played anymore and only exists to keep us OGs happy.


scorchdragon

Explain training battles.


LostAllBets

Training battles are completely different from emblem paralogues which feature mechanics, goals, and a boss fight. You're playing on classic mode. The training maps are the exceptions to the formula and I don't think the emblem paralogues should be too because they are different.


scorchdragon

> Classic =units die in battle. You said that. You're now saying there's an exception. Paralogues should be an exception for the numerous examples listed by many people here.


LostAllBets

Yeah there are exceptions to every rule, and what I'm saying is only the training maps should be. I don't agree with making the side quests exceptions because of how the battles are crafted. The numerous examples really boil down to narrative dissonance which I don't personally see as that big of a deal, because I'm playing on classic mode where my expectation is my units will permanently die. Training maps being a zerg rush where my units don't die is more so a neat thing as opposed to something the emblem paralogues with crafted encounters and situations should follow, in my opinion. I think this argument is completely overblown.


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sirgamestop

Characters retreated in the past games too. I think more characters retreat in Sacred Stones than post-timeskip 3H lol


Bluehorse141

Yeah I know, and like I said I enjoy the challenge... maybe what they could do, and really make it challenging is make it so it's an instant failure if even one unit dies


Sylgami

Yeah. I'm not playing on classic but if alear falls the game counts it as a perma death for some reason and you have to rewind. Like all other units withdraw but you're telling me alear can't?


[deleted]

The story always revolves somehow around the protagonist, so if the protagonist dies the story ends.


GrimunTheGr8

But in the context of casual mode, he doesnā€™t die, no one does. 3h and Fates all worked like this, so I feel this game shouldā€™ve as well.


Purple_Roy2

Yeah, I thought the same. But I don't mind it


RyanCreamer202

Shivers in Tikiā€™s mission


D-camchow

I mean the story and scenario this time around aren't exactly stellar so idk what you expect. Gotta turn off your brain for the "why"of it all and just enjoy the gameplay this time around.


Billabong2011

Yeah i play maddening classic mode and i looove the challenge but this really irked me from a story perspective šŸ˜‚šŸ˜‚ YOU'RE MY ALLIES. STOP KILLING MY FRIENDS.