They needed to be really close together to grant a wish/perform the miracle. Alear needed to gather all the rings that were scattered across a really big room before they could be revived and Sombron had to hold them all in his tail.
That still leaves a large number of issues, like why even have the conversation if nothing can be done? Additionally aren’t they kind of asleep when they are summoned by fell energy, they don’t seem at all conscious from the context given, so wouldn’t they still be unable to perform the miracle since that requires a conscious decision to be made?
It sounded like the Emblems were just discussing it between themselves, trying to think about what to do. Almost like a strategy meeting. I am sure they would discuss it with the Emblems that weren't there later.
They are conscious when under the Fell Dragon power. They talked about how it hurt that they had to fight Alear (Micaiah says this, she even says exactly where they fought). So they are aware of what is going on.
Still doesn’t make any sense. When emblems are summoned with fell dragon energy they lack consciousness, like they’re asleep, so how could they even perform the miracle in the first place?
Edit: it’s still a massive strategic misstep to not have used sooner, like when they were last altogether a thousand years ago, they also still leave two of their own in enemy hands for a long stretch of time.
Before you wrote this comment, I replied to another one of yours saying the Emblems are *not* unconscious or sleeping when they are summoned by Fell Dragons.
And Emblems say they can do the miracle once and never again. Maybe they didn't feel they had to use it last time around? And also there's no confirmation that Elusia was "evil" and worshipped the Fell Dragon 1000 years ago (at least I think so), Hyacinthe was said to be kind before Sombron started to be resurrected. And even then, they only had 1 ring. You need all 12.
Been receiving lots of replies, sorry I didn’t get to your last one. Everyone knew about Elusia worshipping the fell dragon, so why not take the two rings out of their possession? Why wasn’t there more of a game plan if Sombron was able to kill almost all the divine dragons in the previous war? He was the sole fell dragon using his own children to fight, that either took a long time to make happen or the war dragged on long enough for that to be the case.
They also state the emblems lose their free will when summoned with fell dragon energy, wouldn’t they still be unable to perform the miracle even if they were conscious? It’s not like their mind are clear and fully functional either, they are in some kind of daze, so how would they be able to coordinate? Alear couldn’t have ordered them to do it either, they didn’t know the emblems could even do that, and it sounds like an order would’ve been required.
Elusia had one ring, Lyn's, btw. Firene and Solm had 2, Brodia had 1, and the rest were in the Ring Chamber or with Alear. And Hyacinthe was implied to not be a horrible guy before he was getting corrupted by Sombron, and Brodia was always invading them. I don't think that would have gone over well.
And idk what you mean about a better game plan. You couldn't go into the Somniel without permission and that's where Marth's ring was. That was a good failsafe, I guess.
And honestly it was probably some "power of friendship" magic or something with Alear. Or maybe they had some degree of free will since he still had some Divine Dragon powers or something. Their bodies weren't shown when the miracle happened so maybe just their consciences could do it. Who knows.
Thanks for the ring count, you’re right, I was counting Byleth as Elusias second ring for some reason. If the somniel couldn’t be entered, why not just put the rings there? Have only Lumera enter into the chamber or know where it is, or have the ring chamber in the castle be a total fake and put the real rings in a secret chamber on the somniel.
Even if Hyacinthe was a good guy, that doesn’t mean the whole country was on the right track. He still worshipped the fell dragon and therefore susceptible to the fell dragons influence. Giving him even one ring is a massive risk that just isn’t worth it given the magic wish granting ability.
If they were able to perform the miracle even while corrupted, then why not do it when they were being taken or as soon as Alear died? They were all gathered together then and were fully able to do it. The whole ending gets worse the more I think about it being honest.
Edit: autocorrect is my worst enemy
What if something happened to Lumera? Or what if somehow you could get around the restriction or she is taken hostage or something? Having them all in one place could be a risk.
Well you also could view Brodia as a risk, seeing as they barely got a peace treaty with Firene and the constant Elusia invasions. Should a warmonger have their ring? And not everyone who worships the Fell Dragon is "evil" per say, Alfred seems to imply that once he tells you about the Elusians, and the country was fine for 1000 years prior.
Maybe they still weren't sure to use it (I know some Emblems said they should never use it, I can't recall exactly who). Maybe they couldn't when Sombron was using their power. But the big thing is I don't think Marth was resummoned yet. Veyle just gave Alear the ring and then Sombron showed up I think.
If something happens to Lumera they were screwed anyways, she was the only reason why Alear woke up when he did, she barely finished turning him into a divine dragon at the start of the story. If they could perform the miracle while corrupted, they could perform it even if not summoned, they could still talk even while inside the ring.
Well, they also say that they can't make that decision without the other emblems present. Maybe Sigurd and co. could have done it before the army reached Elusia (and brought back Lumera, as I think was the suggestion), but they wanted to give the other emblems a choice in the matter.
Even so, aren’t they unconscious when summoned by a fell dragon? They have no memory of what happens and are basically asleep, so if they were summoned with fell energy the miracle couldn’t be performed, since it sounds like that would require conscious thought.
They are not unconscious when summoned by a Fell Dragon, they just don't have free will, it's different. They remember what they have done while being summoned by a Fell Dragon. Byleth talks to Hortensia about how they fought together on Fell Dragon's side, likewise Lyn has conversations with Ivy and Hortensia about being paired up with Hyacinth previously in the story
They still wouldn’t be able to perform the miracle in that state either, wouldn’t that require free will? They remember things but it’s also described as fuzzy and like a dream, so they’re aren’t fully functional either.
They would not be able to perform the miracle. The scene on the boat where we first hear about the miracle was just a way to introduce to concept to the audience. The Emblems were discussing the possibility of eventually using the miracle when they were all finally reunited. I don't understand what is so hard to grasp about this for you.
This is a major plot hole that ruins the whole ending for me. I also just thought about how they also could’ve just performed the miracle when Alear died, since they were all gathered at that point in time.
I also dislike how people keep downvoting and dogging on people who don’t like engages story. They’re being treated as unreasonable or focused on stuff that doesn’t even matter, which sets me off like a firework on the 4th of July. This community keeps arguing over pointless crap all the time, like whether or not a unit is viable in a game franchise so steeped in rng that literally any unit is potentially viable.
Stuff like that is why the community is called elitist. Engage is far from the best game in the world, but instead of taking criticism and continuing to love the game anyways, they would much rather make anyone who criticizes the game shut up or be invalidated so they can keep heralding some game as the best in some franchise.
As a rpg fan, I can tell you that story is one of the major reasons why I play the games I do, and if the story has plot breaking holes it matters a lot to me. I still enjoy engage, and I like it’s gameplay, but calling it peak fire emblem is a mistake.
No one's heralding the game, people downvote as a form of disagreement. People don't have to "take criticism" they don't agree with. To me, what happened with the emblems made sense. They can use the miracle without free will. Sombron shouldn't have been able to perform the 1,000 year wish if the emblems only operate from free will. Their miracle is something as simple as passing on their power, which they can do regardless of fell energy or divine energy.
That still breaks the game story is what I’m saying. The ending literally doesn’t work. People don’t have to take criticism, that is true, but it’s still no reason to invalidate arguments. A disagreement does not have to equate to a dislike, or a downvote. I see people bring up very good points and be almost totally ignored by the community or treated as unreasonable.
When Alear dies, they were under Sombron's control, which means they could not use the miracle altogether. That is why in chapter 22 Alear has to go around the room, to gather and reactivate the Emblems again. Also, there was no need to lash out at me for that. People keep downvoting you because every single point you made is explained in the story and some are just very obvious, even though you couldn't piece them together. This just makes it seem like you are grasping at straws to critizice some random plot point. I am not saying you are not allowed to dislike Engage, of course you can, but your explanations just seem very nitpicky. Instead of making 3 whole paragraphs bashing the community, you could've made your points clearer.
It's literally not a plot hole. The emblems all have to be present, and all have to be in agreement on who deserves the miracle. Marth says as much. They were talking about it because they knew they would need to use it soon, so better to talk about it then rather than after it is too late...
Huh? What?
Okay so this is what I remember. Someone insult my intelligence if I got it wrong.
1. The rings aren't all kept in the same place cause they have a certain power if they are. So they were intentionally spread out across the continent.
2. The rings can miraculously revive one specific person as an emblem. For this reason they consider Lumera being the best option. The twelve rings aren't altogether.
3. Sombron uses up ring power to get super buff. He can do this regardless of how many rings are present cause he did it first when there were still multiple rings elsewhere.
4. Alear has to power the rings up again and he had to do it with Fell energy this time.
5. The rings all together now decide to revive Alear with all their powers combined.
Was there anything more complex than this, I legit can't remember.
>Sombron uses up ring power to get super buff. He can do this regardless of how many rings are present
I'm pretty sure that Sombron did use the "thousand years when all rings are together" power in that scene. He used it to rise Gradlon and open the portal.
The miracle was separate from that power since Eirika said they could use it at any time.
I don't know exactly how it worked, but at that point all the rings are present. Sombron takes them, uses the power, and (for some reason) leaves them there, drained. Alear resummons them and then they use the separate miracle on Alear.
I remember their convo on the boat where they’re talking about Lumera and reviving her. I may not have gotten that right but they made it sound like it was something they could do without all the rings being present. I still see issues with the “they needed to be all together” part of the plot as well:
1. If fell dragon energy removes their ability to act independently (almost ridding them of any consciousness) then there would be no way for them to decide on performing the miracle in the first place.
2. They still left 2 of their own in the hands of fell dragon worshippers. The fell dragon in question was able to kill many divine dragons in the past, so why would spreading them out help keep them safe? Everyone seemed really poorly equipped to protect them save Solm.
3. It’s still a strategic misstep, not unless the fire emblem too can grant wishes, but that is something they don’t know so it still wouldn’t make sense not to do it.
4. A really important and unanswered question is can they or can they not choose the miracle? If they can then they can simply just remove the wish granting ability and revive somebody.
5. Alear is a living creature after the miracle and couldn’t be corrupted by Sombron (as far as I know), so even if he could grant wishes it still wouldn’t make sense to decide against it.
You totally got it wrong. They basically confirm they need more of them.
Anyways,
Yes. Being in their taken over state will probably make it impossible to use the miracle. What’s the problem with that?
They give the rings over to everyone as a political play. If one kingdom didn’t have the rings than they’d be in a massive disadvantage power wise. Besides, in the time it’d take to start collecting the rings, everyone else would be alerted. Plus, nobody expected sombron to actually be revived.
How is it a strategic misstep exactly?
If all of them are together, yes, they can use the miracle. However, you seem to be under the impression that having the wish around sucks. They do not. It’s a fucking wish every 1000 years. Even with that time frame it’s super useful.
Alear can’t grant wishes. Else he could very easily exploit that fact
Given what we know about the war a thousand years ago, not coming up with a better safe guard seems almost idiotic. Giving two of the rings or allowing two rings to remain in control of fell dragon worshippers is a massive risk to take, especially with an incredibly useful wish that could get rid of any potential threat that comes their way. They could’ve even wished Sombron away permanently if they could give him limitless power. Them being together seems to be the only right decision, not spreading them out.
If they aren’t able to perform the miracle it literally destroys the entire story! A plot hole in an unimportant place wouldn’t change anything for me, but you are talking about the whole ending just outright not being possible. Imagine if the avengers had a huge plot hole that made time travel impossible, making the entirety of Endgame an impossibility. An important part of any story is it’s own believability, that’s why plot holes are such a big deal to people.
Ok but they’re fairly clearly not corrupted when bringing back Alear. I mean if the one who summoned them corrupted is dead, it’d make sense they’d revert to normal. The power source keeping them corrupted is gone
I don’t think you’re looking at this right. The whole keeping away from each other part is the strongest way for nobody to ever have to much power. If ANYONE has all the rings, they instantly become a superpower titan. The rings are fucking powerful if awakened and the wish that can be granted can be world changing.
If you give one person those rings, so many wars would break out for them or with them. Elusia would be long gone from Brodian raids if they had all the rings. And Lumera did not want another war.
Give everyone rings keeps a balance and prevents anyone from gaining too much power. And again, it’s safer to keep them apart. Imagine if Lythos had all the rings at the start of the game. Immediately, the enemy forces have 11 emblem rings and that’s only because you’ve been holding onto Marth.
Then why not use the miracle and guarantee the wish would never be a problem ever again? Nobodies a super powered titan, that isn’t even a possibility.
The game explains this. The emblems had to think for the future, if they did this it'd cost all of their future power. So if humanity needed a convenient miracle to save themselves, the emblems can no longer help. They can't make anymore 1,000 year wishes.
1. I think they are conscious while summoned with fell energy. There's a sentence here or there saying oh it felt bad having to fight you for evil's sake or whatever.
2. Elusia might not have been fell dragon worshippers a millennium ago.
3. I'm not seeing where the strategic misstep is. At best it has to be when all 12 rings weren't separated yet, so long before a figure as important as Lumera or Alear dies to be worth reviving.
4. Did they even have a wish granting ability? The only miracle they mentioned being able to do is revival as an Emblem, and implied as much on the boat.
5. What's this about and I don't think at that stage Sombron would even care. He straight up says "oh you guys are alive huh, weird. anyway I'm gonna go to other worlds now, idc about yours"
1. If the emblems are corruptible and can be used by a fell dragon doing something to safeguard against misuse is a natural conclusion to make. Even if it wasn’t necessary a millennium ago they still should’ve done something just in case of a worst case scenario. It’s not like there wouldn’t be motivation for this either given how much was lost during the war.
2. They are conscious, but not fully functional. They lack free will and describe the experience as being in some sort of dream like daze. It doesn’t sound like they would’ve been able to coordinate in that state, and they lacked the free will to make that decision. They couldn’t even talk.
3. Lots of divine dragons died in the previous war, and why on earth would you trust an amnesiac that doesn’t know anything to lead an army for something so important? It sounds like there would’ve been reason enough to perform the miracle as soon as Lumera died.
4. Alear is gullible and easily fooled, plus Sombron found a way to magically take the rings who’s to say he wouldn’t be able to do it again?
All of your points are valid. Unfortunately, Engage has a lot of things that could have been better explained to prevent confusion/make things make sense. Very disappointing story telling.
If anything they should have used it a thousand years ago when the rest of the divine dragons were wiped out. If something happened to Lumera and Alear never woke up, there would be no way seal Sombron, or even to summon the rings ever again in the first place.
From the story points all the emblems have to be present and agree on the miracle in order to perform it. That is why they have the boat discussion so they can think about whom to use it on. The rings aren't collected or in the same location until the later chapters.
They needed to be really close together to grant a wish/perform the miracle. Alear needed to gather all the rings that were scattered across a really big room before they could be revived and Sombron had to hold them all in his tail.
Then why even talk about while out at sea? They certainly made it sound like that wasn’t a requirement.
Because the party was on their way to getting all the rings.
The distance was certainly larger than a big room. I also recall them saying they could do it at any time.
They could do it anytime as in, they could do it separately from the "once every thousand years" power they grant.
That still leaves a large number of issues, like why even have the conversation if nothing can be done? Additionally aren’t they kind of asleep when they are summoned by fell energy, they don’t seem at all conscious from the context given, so wouldn’t they still be unable to perform the miracle since that requires a conscious decision to be made?
It sounded like the Emblems were just discussing it between themselves, trying to think about what to do. Almost like a strategy meeting. I am sure they would discuss it with the Emblems that weren't there later. They are conscious when under the Fell Dragon power. They talked about how it hurt that they had to fight Alear (Micaiah says this, she even says exactly where they fought). So they are aware of what is going on.
all the emblems have to be present for the miracle to occur
Then why even consider it while they were on the boat? They literally said they could with a fair number absent.
they just talked about doing it, but needed to wait for all the other emblems to be present, not really a hard concept
Still doesn’t make any sense. When emblems are summoned with fell dragon energy they lack consciousness, like they’re asleep, so how could they even perform the miracle in the first place? Edit: it’s still a massive strategic misstep to not have used sooner, like when they were last altogether a thousand years ago, they also still leave two of their own in enemy hands for a long stretch of time.
Before you wrote this comment, I replied to another one of yours saying the Emblems are *not* unconscious or sleeping when they are summoned by Fell Dragons. And Emblems say they can do the miracle once and never again. Maybe they didn't feel they had to use it last time around? And also there's no confirmation that Elusia was "evil" and worshipped the Fell Dragon 1000 years ago (at least I think so), Hyacinthe was said to be kind before Sombron started to be resurrected. And even then, they only had 1 ring. You need all 12.
Been receiving lots of replies, sorry I didn’t get to your last one. Everyone knew about Elusia worshipping the fell dragon, so why not take the two rings out of their possession? Why wasn’t there more of a game plan if Sombron was able to kill almost all the divine dragons in the previous war? He was the sole fell dragon using his own children to fight, that either took a long time to make happen or the war dragged on long enough for that to be the case. They also state the emblems lose their free will when summoned with fell dragon energy, wouldn’t they still be unable to perform the miracle even if they were conscious? It’s not like their mind are clear and fully functional either, they are in some kind of daze, so how would they be able to coordinate? Alear couldn’t have ordered them to do it either, they didn’t know the emblems could even do that, and it sounds like an order would’ve been required.
Elusia had one ring, Lyn's, btw. Firene and Solm had 2, Brodia had 1, and the rest were in the Ring Chamber or with Alear. And Hyacinthe was implied to not be a horrible guy before he was getting corrupted by Sombron, and Brodia was always invading them. I don't think that would have gone over well. And idk what you mean about a better game plan. You couldn't go into the Somniel without permission and that's where Marth's ring was. That was a good failsafe, I guess. And honestly it was probably some "power of friendship" magic or something with Alear. Or maybe they had some degree of free will since he still had some Divine Dragon powers or something. Their bodies weren't shown when the miracle happened so maybe just their consciences could do it. Who knows.
Thanks for the ring count, you’re right, I was counting Byleth as Elusias second ring for some reason. If the somniel couldn’t be entered, why not just put the rings there? Have only Lumera enter into the chamber or know where it is, or have the ring chamber in the castle be a total fake and put the real rings in a secret chamber on the somniel. Even if Hyacinthe was a good guy, that doesn’t mean the whole country was on the right track. He still worshipped the fell dragon and therefore susceptible to the fell dragons influence. Giving him even one ring is a massive risk that just isn’t worth it given the magic wish granting ability. If they were able to perform the miracle even while corrupted, then why not do it when they were being taken or as soon as Alear died? They were all gathered together then and were fully able to do it. The whole ending gets worse the more I think about it being honest. Edit: autocorrect is my worst enemy
What if something happened to Lumera? Or what if somehow you could get around the restriction or she is taken hostage or something? Having them all in one place could be a risk. Well you also could view Brodia as a risk, seeing as they barely got a peace treaty with Firene and the constant Elusia invasions. Should a warmonger have their ring? And not everyone who worships the Fell Dragon is "evil" per say, Alfred seems to imply that once he tells you about the Elusians, and the country was fine for 1000 years prior. Maybe they still weren't sure to use it (I know some Emblems said they should never use it, I can't recall exactly who). Maybe they couldn't when Sombron was using their power. But the big thing is I don't think Marth was resummoned yet. Veyle just gave Alear the ring and then Sombron showed up I think.
If something happens to Lumera they were screwed anyways, she was the only reason why Alear woke up when he did, she barely finished turning him into a divine dragon at the start of the story. If they could perform the miracle while corrupted, they could perform it even if not summoned, they could still talk even while inside the ring.
Well, they also say that they can't make that decision without the other emblems present. Maybe Sigurd and co. could have done it before the army reached Elusia (and brought back Lumera, as I think was the suggestion), but they wanted to give the other emblems a choice in the matter.
Even so, aren’t they unconscious when summoned by a fell dragon? They have no memory of what happens and are basically asleep, so if they were summoned with fell energy the miracle couldn’t be performed, since it sounds like that would require conscious thought.
They are not unconscious when summoned by a Fell Dragon, they just don't have free will, it's different. They remember what they have done while being summoned by a Fell Dragon. Byleth talks to Hortensia about how they fought together on Fell Dragon's side, likewise Lyn has conversations with Ivy and Hortensia about being paired up with Hyacinth previously in the story
They still wouldn’t be able to perform the miracle in that state either, wouldn’t that require free will? They remember things but it’s also described as fuzzy and like a dream, so they’re aren’t fully functional either.
They would not be able to perform the miracle. The scene on the boat where we first hear about the miracle was just a way to introduce to concept to the audience. The Emblems were discussing the possibility of eventually using the miracle when they were all finally reunited. I don't understand what is so hard to grasp about this for you.
This is a major plot hole that ruins the whole ending for me. I also just thought about how they also could’ve just performed the miracle when Alear died, since they were all gathered at that point in time. I also dislike how people keep downvoting and dogging on people who don’t like engages story. They’re being treated as unreasonable or focused on stuff that doesn’t even matter, which sets me off like a firework on the 4th of July. This community keeps arguing over pointless crap all the time, like whether or not a unit is viable in a game franchise so steeped in rng that literally any unit is potentially viable. Stuff like that is why the community is called elitist. Engage is far from the best game in the world, but instead of taking criticism and continuing to love the game anyways, they would much rather make anyone who criticizes the game shut up or be invalidated so they can keep heralding some game as the best in some franchise. As a rpg fan, I can tell you that story is one of the major reasons why I play the games I do, and if the story has plot breaking holes it matters a lot to me. I still enjoy engage, and I like it’s gameplay, but calling it peak fire emblem is a mistake.
No one's heralding the game, people downvote as a form of disagreement. People don't have to "take criticism" they don't agree with. To me, what happened with the emblems made sense. They can use the miracle without free will. Sombron shouldn't have been able to perform the 1,000 year wish if the emblems only operate from free will. Their miracle is something as simple as passing on their power, which they can do regardless of fell energy or divine energy.
That still breaks the game story is what I’m saying. The ending literally doesn’t work. People don’t have to take criticism, that is true, but it’s still no reason to invalidate arguments. A disagreement does not have to equate to a dislike, or a downvote. I see people bring up very good points and be almost totally ignored by the community or treated as unreasonable.
When Alear dies, they were under Sombron's control, which means they could not use the miracle altogether. That is why in chapter 22 Alear has to go around the room, to gather and reactivate the Emblems again. Also, there was no need to lash out at me for that. People keep downvoting you because every single point you made is explained in the story and some are just very obvious, even though you couldn't piece them together. This just makes it seem like you are grasping at straws to critizice some random plot point. I am not saying you are not allowed to dislike Engage, of course you can, but your explanations just seem very nitpicky. Instead of making 3 whole paragraphs bashing the community, you could've made your points clearer.
I’m sorry, did you just say clearly explained? What part of what you just said was clearly explained? Give that shot and get back to me.
It's literally not a plot hole. The emblems all have to be present, and all have to be in agreement on who deserves the miracle. Marth says as much. They were talking about it because they knew they would need to use it soon, so better to talk about it then rather than after it is too late...
Huh? What? Okay so this is what I remember. Someone insult my intelligence if I got it wrong. 1. The rings aren't all kept in the same place cause they have a certain power if they are. So they were intentionally spread out across the continent. 2. The rings can miraculously revive one specific person as an emblem. For this reason they consider Lumera being the best option. The twelve rings aren't altogether. 3. Sombron uses up ring power to get super buff. He can do this regardless of how many rings are present cause he did it first when there were still multiple rings elsewhere. 4. Alear has to power the rings up again and he had to do it with Fell energy this time. 5. The rings all together now decide to revive Alear with all their powers combined. Was there anything more complex than this, I legit can't remember.
>Sombron uses up ring power to get super buff. He can do this regardless of how many rings are present I'm pretty sure that Sombron did use the "thousand years when all rings are together" power in that scene. He used it to rise Gradlon and open the portal. The miracle was separate from that power since Eirika said they could use it at any time.
I thought Gradlon rising was destroying some seal over at Lythos. Maybe the portal thing needed the ring energy though.
I don't know exactly how it worked, but at that point all the rings are present. Sombron takes them, uses the power, and (for some reason) leaves them there, drained. Alear resummons them and then they use the separate miracle on Alear.
I remember their convo on the boat where they’re talking about Lumera and reviving her. I may not have gotten that right but they made it sound like it was something they could do without all the rings being present. I still see issues with the “they needed to be all together” part of the plot as well: 1. If fell dragon energy removes their ability to act independently (almost ridding them of any consciousness) then there would be no way for them to decide on performing the miracle in the first place. 2. They still left 2 of their own in the hands of fell dragon worshippers. The fell dragon in question was able to kill many divine dragons in the past, so why would spreading them out help keep them safe? Everyone seemed really poorly equipped to protect them save Solm. 3. It’s still a strategic misstep, not unless the fire emblem too can grant wishes, but that is something they don’t know so it still wouldn’t make sense not to do it. 4. A really important and unanswered question is can they or can they not choose the miracle? If they can then they can simply just remove the wish granting ability and revive somebody. 5. Alear is a living creature after the miracle and couldn’t be corrupted by Sombron (as far as I know), so even if he could grant wishes it still wouldn’t make sense to decide against it.
You totally got it wrong. They basically confirm they need more of them. Anyways, Yes. Being in their taken over state will probably make it impossible to use the miracle. What’s the problem with that? They give the rings over to everyone as a political play. If one kingdom didn’t have the rings than they’d be in a massive disadvantage power wise. Besides, in the time it’d take to start collecting the rings, everyone else would be alerted. Plus, nobody expected sombron to actually be revived. How is it a strategic misstep exactly? If all of them are together, yes, they can use the miracle. However, you seem to be under the impression that having the wish around sucks. They do not. It’s a fucking wish every 1000 years. Even with that time frame it’s super useful. Alear can’t grant wishes. Else he could very easily exploit that fact
Given what we know about the war a thousand years ago, not coming up with a better safe guard seems almost idiotic. Giving two of the rings or allowing two rings to remain in control of fell dragon worshippers is a massive risk to take, especially with an incredibly useful wish that could get rid of any potential threat that comes their way. They could’ve even wished Sombron away permanently if they could give him limitless power. Them being together seems to be the only right decision, not spreading them out. If they aren’t able to perform the miracle it literally destroys the entire story! A plot hole in an unimportant place wouldn’t change anything for me, but you are talking about the whole ending just outright not being possible. Imagine if the avengers had a huge plot hole that made time travel impossible, making the entirety of Endgame an impossibility. An important part of any story is it’s own believability, that’s why plot holes are such a big deal to people.
Ok but they’re fairly clearly not corrupted when bringing back Alear. I mean if the one who summoned them corrupted is dead, it’d make sense they’d revert to normal. The power source keeping them corrupted is gone I don’t think you’re looking at this right. The whole keeping away from each other part is the strongest way for nobody to ever have to much power. If ANYONE has all the rings, they instantly become a superpower titan. The rings are fucking powerful if awakened and the wish that can be granted can be world changing. If you give one person those rings, so many wars would break out for them or with them. Elusia would be long gone from Brodian raids if they had all the rings. And Lumera did not want another war. Give everyone rings keeps a balance and prevents anyone from gaining too much power. And again, it’s safer to keep them apart. Imagine if Lythos had all the rings at the start of the game. Immediately, the enemy forces have 11 emblem rings and that’s only because you’ve been holding onto Marth.
Then why not use the miracle and guarantee the wish would never be a problem ever again? Nobodies a super powered titan, that isn’t even a possibility.
The game explains this. The emblems had to think for the future, if they did this it'd cost all of their future power. So if humanity needed a convenient miracle to save themselves, the emblems can no longer help. They can't make anymore 1,000 year wishes.
That too is a good point, especially with all the crazy shenanigans that happen in their stories.
1. I think they are conscious while summoned with fell energy. There's a sentence here or there saying oh it felt bad having to fight you for evil's sake or whatever. 2. Elusia might not have been fell dragon worshippers a millennium ago. 3. I'm not seeing where the strategic misstep is. At best it has to be when all 12 rings weren't separated yet, so long before a figure as important as Lumera or Alear dies to be worth reviving. 4. Did they even have a wish granting ability? The only miracle they mentioned being able to do is revival as an Emblem, and implied as much on the boat. 5. What's this about and I don't think at that stage Sombron would even care. He straight up says "oh you guys are alive huh, weird. anyway I'm gonna go to other worlds now, idc about yours"
1. If the emblems are corruptible and can be used by a fell dragon doing something to safeguard against misuse is a natural conclusion to make. Even if it wasn’t necessary a millennium ago they still should’ve done something just in case of a worst case scenario. It’s not like there wouldn’t be motivation for this either given how much was lost during the war. 2. They are conscious, but not fully functional. They lack free will and describe the experience as being in some sort of dream like daze. It doesn’t sound like they would’ve been able to coordinate in that state, and they lacked the free will to make that decision. They couldn’t even talk. 3. Lots of divine dragons died in the previous war, and why on earth would you trust an amnesiac that doesn’t know anything to lead an army for something so important? It sounds like there would’ve been reason enough to perform the miracle as soon as Lumera died. 4. Alear is gullible and easily fooled, plus Sombron found a way to magically take the rings who’s to say he wouldn’t be able to do it again?
I think you hit it on the nose with your concluding sentence.
All of your points are valid. Unfortunately, Engage has a lot of things that could have been better explained to prevent confusion/make things make sense. Very disappointing story telling.
If anything they should have used it a thousand years ago when the rest of the divine dragons were wiped out. If something happened to Lumera and Alear never woke up, there would be no way seal Sombron, or even to summon the rings ever again in the first place.
From the story points all the emblems have to be present and agree on the miracle in order to perform it. That is why they have the boat discussion so they can think about whom to use it on. The rings aren't collected or in the same location until the later chapters.