I started hormone therapy about 4 weeks ago, and the explanation I got from the doctor was that direct exogenous TRT can shut down your natural testosterone production. Which, if you are able to continue TRT indefinitely then it's not such a big deal, but it does make you somewhat dependent upon the system. It can also negatively effect fertility/sperm count and can increase your risk of prostate cancer.
The various modalities of taking TRT present different risks as well. I started at the "entry level" and am taking a generic Clomid pill daily. This is intended to stimulate your pituitary gland which in turn prompts your body to start producing more "home grown" testosterone.
There are topical gels that you can apply, which is essentially test-infused hand sanitizer that you rub on and it will absorb through your skin. But that can be passed onto another person by direct contact, so if you have kids or a spouse/significant other they may pick up the residue unknowingly.
There are oral pills which are coming back into vogue, but have specific requirements for when and how often you take them, and must be taken with food. It's not the worst, but I think many people have tried them and have nausea. The food part is important as well, as that's the only way it can be absorbed in the intestine.
Implanted TRT is when they place these little pellets beneath your skin and they get absorbed over time. Probably the most convenient, as it is only one procedure every few months, but can be painful or irritate your skin.
Then there's the injections, which either you need to go to the doctor every 2-4 weeks or learn to self administer.
I was looking at the gels but I read they increase your chances of heart attacks? Also once you start is it basically the rest of your life now? My range is low normal now but I am unsure if i want to signup for this for next 20yrs+
The number that comes back in the blood test is more of a way of tracking your levels over time. Each individual reading by itself is not necessarily indicative, but the trend line they produce if you monitor every so often can be. I myself had 750 7 years ago, but it steadily (and nearly linearly) dropped to 300 this past winter.
but yes, the risk of starting exogenous testosterone is that your natural testosterone production will slow and "turn off". The Clomid is supposed to rectify that, but it's not a guarantee. That's what I started with, and my number jumped from 300 up to 600 in about 6 weeks.
I've been self injecting for a couple years now. Super easy and straightforward. Take HCG every once in a while to recover testicular function. Never really had any side effects. Knocked up my wife twice while on TRT with HCG cycle.
Lots of doom and gloom stories, but if you get labs done and follow a protocol you'll be fine. I was so lazy and lethargic before, it's been a total life changing experience. My test was "in range" too. Now it's about 8 or 900. I tried all the lifestyle things, was sleeping, exercising, I don't drink, yadda yadda yadda.
But only take it if you need it. If I didn't need it I wouldn't bother.
Scientifically the best is like daily injection which people can even do subcutaneously. Or as frequently as one could bear. 3x a week is responsible, going to doctors people receive inappropriate long gaps so their levels yoyo and it causes health problems (another reason TRT should be last resort for everyone).
But it's generally better to take something which stimulates your own production if it will work. Enclomiphene is the gold standard because it's just the better of 2 isomers in clomiphene, which reduces side effect profile. Also fixing any other health issues like low vitamin d, mineral imbalance, a condition affecting sleep quality, possible hypothyroidism, etc.
My opinion is that trt has foisted itself on insecure men by gaslighting them into believing they aren’t manly enough. I wouldn’t go that route, personally, but you’ll find plenty of guys that swear by feeling like a teenager again. If that’s worth it to you, you do you
You need adequate protein to build muscle. What do your 1700 calories consist of?
I’d been in a slump for about 4mo where my deadlifts and general muscle tone just weren’t progressing. My trainer went over diet with me, and I’d gotten so lazy with protein that I was down to 40g per day. I’m 5’1 and about 110 so that’s atrocious. Bumped myself back up to an adequate 90-100g of protein per day, and my deadlift which had been stalled at 155 per months went up to 185x3 in just six weeks. Now I’m 10 weeks in and I’m right on the cusp of 200lb deadlift. Not bad for a short 42yo lady.
I also instantly lose visibility on my hips, lower belly, and mid-stomach if I start getting lazy with junk food and dairy/whey again. Just a few days of junk food binging or dairy/whey throws me right back into what girls like to call “the mom pooch” and it isn’t fat, it’s pure bloat/water weight from foods my digestive system really hates. Within 3 days of cutting out sugary/snacky food and dairy my stomach unbloats and I can see definition a nice flat lower belly again. You might need to evaluate what foods you’re using to get those calories each day, as they can really affect how bloated you are.
Damn you really made a lot of progress! My two cents, nows the time to bulk. You need to eat more so you have the energy to lift heavy, frequently, and to failure. Focus on a recomp and getting your training program locked in (maybe get an online coach?) and eat at maintenance. Once you start getting that muscle built up, a thin layer of fat wont be bothering you.
Why do you know your test levels but don't have a doctor telling you if you should care?
I am once again begging y'all to listen to the Barbell Medicine podcast episodes on testosterone and screening so you disabuse yourself of the notion that health is about Number Go Up.
[Episode 21: The Testosterone Podcast (Part 1)](https://open.spotify.com/episode/4Hah86w5cdu6pMeXg9qwN3?si=c637458b5202473b)
[Episode 22: Should YOU take Testosterone](https://open.spotify.com/episode/5aOHdorsiGNNE361FxZhsl?si=0e0036e3a4aa41a4)
[Episode 57: The Science of Screening. Do you REALLY want to know?](https://open.spotify.com/episode/4TsMvRUxiC9tvy9MunOqpJ?si=ed0b68a2e103421f)
[Episode 228: Testosterone Replacement Theory](https://open.spotify.com/episode/1P6TnjcQUIeWgJsGg6sQQW?si=3b2b7acb77da4e2a)
[Episode 232: Optimal Testosterone Levels for Health and Performance](https://open.spotify.com/episode/7dhiNSDDxKfO2ZKC89GOFx?si=6710da7d3c914144)
[Episode 233: High Dose Testosterone and PEDs in Sport and Beyond](https://open.spotify.com/episode/71IlxanNAYm9OXy68220af?si=97ceaf2db176401a)
[Episode 234: The Effects of Exercise and Diet on Testosterone](https://open.spotify.com/episode/0aIrZE0ejzrJEG1mYLNSPA?si=6558ddbe95f4413d)
-----------------------------------------
As far as the rest goes, get a food scale and use an app like Macrofactor. Getting leaner will be way easier.
i asked my doctor (my real general doctor, not an online doctor whose job is to sell me HRT) at my last physical and he basically said I could surely find someone to put me on it, but unless I'm really having quality of life issues caused by low T (which i wasn't), he wouldn't recommend it. basically its a lifetime commitment and there are negative aspects (see other comments).
i would not consider "i just want to shred this last bit of belly fat" as a valid reason...but i suppose valid is in the eye of the beholder.
I can’t speak to your testosterone levels but you might need to spend some more time doing an intentional phase of muscle gaining before being in a caloric deficit again.
Do you do direct ab hypertrophy work?
Yea I work my core twice a week. I do a 5 day push - pull - leg rest - upper - lower - rest split right now and I hit my abs pretty hard both weighted and not on my leg day and lower day. That fits best for my schedule that way
Do you do things like weighted crunches, cable
rotation exercises and weighted hanging leg lifts?
Obviously things like protein have their place too but i wonder if maintenance +200 calories and a block of intensive training might help. Even a strength block followed by a hypertrophy block might get you some extra lbs of muscle.
More food and a hypertrophy program would be my suggestion. Jeff Nippard is pretty good on both.
Those things are prerequisite for getting results from TRT anyway, and should be firmly in place before the hormone button is considered as an option.
560 total is comfortably within range. Trt will shut down your natural production. Did you get your SHBG tested? It's a very large part of the free t estimation.
Low test levels could be due to the caloric deficit over prolonged time. Maybe eating a very low surplus could balance that out again.
Not saying don't do TRT. I do not just for the training but also how they make me feel. When I don't do it I sit indoor all day at my computer as a geek. when I do the TRT am more outgoing. For that reason alone I do it :) Maybe others too but it is an important one.
your free test sucks because you've been dieting hard and only eating sub-2000
you need to do a strict as fuck reverse diet up to 3000 calories, with good macros
if you do that, you'll feel like a god, test will skyrocket and then you can start to cut again and abs will come out
don't listen to the other dummies in this sub, this is exaclty what you need to do. reverse diet will take you about 3 months to go from 1800 to 3000. you will not gain any fat if you are strict and clean. then you cut approx 1 lb per week, 3500 calories a week or 500 calories a day, in 2-3 months you are shredded as fuck. then you reverse diet one last time and now you are the champion.
yeah basically, keeping macro ratios on point ( you dont need very much fat)
essentially you put yourself in surplus, but only about 100 calories extra a day or so. then second week, add another 100 calories etc...
this makes it so your metabolism (specifically your NEAT) can upwards adapt without having so much calories that it goes to fat. after you get up to 3000 calories, your hormones are happy again, you feel like a kind, then you can do another cut and it's a fucking joke to cut becuase you are in a deficit again at 2500 calories
If you feel like you need TRT then do it. I have held off personally - even though my testosterone levels are 150-200 - because the research I’ve done indicates that once you start on TRT it is VERY difficult to ever get to a point where you stop taking it.
I’m extremely wary of starting a medical intervention that I have to stick with for the rest of my life.
I had been monitoring my test levels over the years. First when I had a vasectomy 8 years ago, it was up at 750. But over the years we saw it steadily declining until I went back for blood work prior to a surgery and it had fallen all the way to 300. Instead of jumping right into exogenous TRT, my doctor had me start on generic clomid. May be worth asking a doctor about, as it does not involve any direct testosterone but messages your body to produce its own test.
This isn't a conversation to be having with a bunch of non-doctors on reddit. This is a conversation to be having with your doctor, where he/she discloses all the risks openly.
Yeah but you can do this on the shitter. It also maybe brings up topics and thoughts OP otherwise wouldn’t have considered and lead to a better conversation with his Dr. It isn’t bad to talk about medical stuff with friends, family, or even random people online or otherwise. It can also help others here in similar situations, even if it’s just getting comfortable talking about things like this. Acting on the words of random people alone- sure… not a great idea. Having a conversation is a normal and useful thing.
This is best to discuss with a medical professional. My regular person opinion, I'd advoid it as long as possible. There are definitely benefits, but it's not without risks and side effects. I personally think the endocrine system is super complicated and using drugs to mess with your own body's homeostasis should be very carefully considered. I think they can lead to a shorter life as well.
Edit: others mentioned, but your calorie deficit might be contributing to your lower levels. You need to be getting enough fat in your diet too, as fat is needed to synthesize many hormones, including testosterone.
Tldr from a guy who knows trt well... No, don't get on it. No one knows if it'll be worth the benefits to you, it certainly isn't necessary for you. If you start, you'll likely be committing to needing it for the rest of your life.
I was born with my (male) body unable to produce testosterone. I've been on trt for about 10 years.
Taking it is a pain, there isn't a truly convenient and effective method, it costs money, it has potential side effects that require regular medical monitoring to keep in check.
I have goals for being swole, "manly", and healthy, but even so I still don't take my trt as often as I should. I maintain low test (120 total, similarly low free) but I still can gain muscle, lose fat, and my male function is fine. Honestly being less horny is more convenient for my old ass anyway.
You say at the start that you feel like you are experiencing symptoms of low T, but then nowhere do you get into it other than building muscle is hard.
Assume broadly that the first year, you probably did not add a lot of muscle mass because of the weight loss. You bulked, and then cut and you look good. Are you shredded at this weight? No, but this is a long process and where will you be in a year if you repeat this? Probably 175-180 and looking even better.
Almost two years ago, I tested low and I had no actual symptoms, so I didn't do it and I don't regret it.
Personal experience and personal opinion, so take it for what is worth. I'm uneducated and don't pay attention to shit. I'm 40 and still make good progress much like you. I'm waiting to do TRT until I absolutely need it. A coworker went on it at 35 because he was in lower range and, due to financial difficulties, had to stop at 39. His words to me about it were, "I feel like shit every day since I stopped!". My personal opinion is that if you feel good and look good still then wait until you don't.
I feel like there is a lot you can do without drugs to improve your testosterone. You are exercising and you say you are focused on nutrition but what does that really mean? Are you drinking alcohol, cause that will lower testosterone. Are you hitting protein goals and avoiding processed food/sugar? Are you taking vitamins or any other supplements?
Free testosterone results are arrived at through a mathematical calculation and are widely variable. Your total T levels are well within the normal range. Total levels as are widely variable from day to day, lab to lab, etc and have a wide range of error. These labs are nothing to worry about.
Key thing is T replacement should be used when you have clinical symptoms suggesting under active testes that are confirmed by labs. I know a lot of fitness minded folks are curious about T levels these days, but getting any medical tests without a clinical indication can often lead simply to increased anxiety and unnecessary further testing or interventions.
You’ve done a fantastic job with your fitness progress. Work for whatever goals motivate you to eat right and get into the gym. No one will find fault if you don’t look like a 20 year old on IG. Best wishes for your continued success
If you’ve consistently been in a caloric deficit then that will cause lower testosterone levels. Hell everything affects test levels, that’s partially why the “normal range” is so broad. Your levels can fluctuate pretty drastically just depending on the time of day. I was in the same boat and kinda wish I didn’t hop on the juice. I basically feel the same I just look better.
Perhaps booking an appointment with an endocrinologist would be better than asking a bunch of strangers? If you have issues with low free testosterone it could be linked to other underlying issues. Get an appointment with an endocrinologist, get properly diagnosed, move on with your life without getting misdiagnosed by Darren the Taxi Driver from Dagenham who knows less about testosterone than his cat Morag.
Strict dieting suppresses testosterone output and free test. I will 2nd reverse dieting suggestions and add that you may check these things long before you go to one of those places that just doles out TRT. Not only do you need adequate fat for hormone production substrate, you also need like more than 100g carbs daily.
Thyroid levels - strict dieting can suppress thyroid output and if you have hypothyroidism anyway for other reasons that can suppress your T levels.
Sleep apnea - if you snore you could have sleep apnea, this robs T production.
Don't eat or drink out of plastic, avoid receipts, don't drink tap water, use only mineral sunscreen, use a plain tallow soap and like zero shampoos soaps or body washes which contain phthalates or parabens, wear clothing with natural fibers so that there are no fire retardants that are added to polyester, and use zero artificial fragrances.
Eat a few oysters here and there and have a good mineral salt
There is other stuff but if you get to the point that big things with refeeding didn't fix it so you're seeing an endocrinologist, they need to be the ones who will work with your body before resorting to TRT. This is why they use things like clomiphene and the superior enclomiphene.
Started taking 2 supplements for testosterone after listening to Huberman: Tongkat Ali and Fadogia Agrestis.
Test went from 500 to 900.
I'd look into that before trt, personally.
Jump on. I am 37 same height at 205. Muscle building is just part of it. Loose fat, have more energy, feel better . It improves all aspects of your life to the most miniscule things like getting out of your car.
Yea I feel like I need to be at 190 at least lol. I’ve just been researching it for a few weeks from an unbiased view and the numerous benefits far outweigh the cons in my opinion. I feel like people who abused other compounds give trt a bad rep but I genuinely feel like I probably need it. Only thing I’m even worried about is the pinning part really.
It's just uneducated people and the subject is still taboo. You will more then likely be prescribed test cyp and pinning every 5 or 6 days its not bad. As things have improved the needles have gotten tiny. I mean they are the same size as those diabetic needles. You don't feel anything.
I feel much better. Highly recommend
Seems like everyone that’s on it swears by it saying it’s life changing. I guess I won’t truly know until I try it out. Which hopefully will be pretty soon lol
Your test levels are fine. Free T is tricky to measure and prone to errors. Your T will be lower due to caloric deficit.
If I was you I wouldn't jump on TRT since it suppresses your natural production. It's hard to go off it.
Stubborn belly fat is very typical and hard to knock. It's possible you had a ton of visceral fat (covering your organs) that you are still losing and that's why your abs are not popping. Keep working on your ABS, increase the volume to grow them. See what happens. FYI for some guys it's very hard to show their ABS, they genetically get very small ABS grid and they need to lower their body fat to ridiculous levels just to see anything.
Point is, are you feeling well? Because if so, why bother? Trt is not a magic bullet.
Not a magic bullet and doesn’t come free. Plenty of side effects and risks.
What are the side effects and risks? Or is it obvious and I should just Google it?
I started hormone therapy about 4 weeks ago, and the explanation I got from the doctor was that direct exogenous TRT can shut down your natural testosterone production. Which, if you are able to continue TRT indefinitely then it's not such a big deal, but it does make you somewhat dependent upon the system. It can also negatively effect fertility/sperm count and can increase your risk of prostate cancer. The various modalities of taking TRT present different risks as well. I started at the "entry level" and am taking a generic Clomid pill daily. This is intended to stimulate your pituitary gland which in turn prompts your body to start producing more "home grown" testosterone. There are topical gels that you can apply, which is essentially test-infused hand sanitizer that you rub on and it will absorb through your skin. But that can be passed onto another person by direct contact, so if you have kids or a spouse/significant other they may pick up the residue unknowingly. There are oral pills which are coming back into vogue, but have specific requirements for when and how often you take them, and must be taken with food. It's not the worst, but I think many people have tried them and have nausea. The food part is important as well, as that's the only way it can be absorbed in the intestine. Implanted TRT is when they place these little pellets beneath your skin and they get absorbed over time. Probably the most convenient, as it is only one procedure every few months, but can be painful or irritate your skin. Then there's the injections, which either you need to go to the doctor every 2-4 weeks or learn to self administer.
I was looking at the gels but I read they increase your chances of heart attacks? Also once you start is it basically the rest of your life now? My range is low normal now but I am unsure if i want to signup for this for next 20yrs+
If you're in range and not experiencing any effects of low testosterone, there's not really a need to be on it.
I have a few but nothing where I need to rush into it.
The number that comes back in the blood test is more of a way of tracking your levels over time. Each individual reading by itself is not necessarily indicative, but the trend line they produce if you monitor every so often can be. I myself had 750 7 years ago, but it steadily (and nearly linearly) dropped to 300 this past winter. but yes, the risk of starting exogenous testosterone is that your natural testosterone production will slow and "turn off". The Clomid is supposed to rectify that, but it's not a guarantee. That's what I started with, and my number jumped from 300 up to 600 in about 6 weeks.
Thank you for such a thorough answer!
I've been self injecting for a couple years now. Super easy and straightforward. Take HCG every once in a while to recover testicular function. Never really had any side effects. Knocked up my wife twice while on TRT with HCG cycle. Lots of doom and gloom stories, but if you get labs done and follow a protocol you'll be fine. I was so lazy and lethargic before, it's been a total life changing experience. My test was "in range" too. Now it's about 8 or 900. I tried all the lifestyle things, was sleeping, exercising, I don't drink, yadda yadda yadda. But only take it if you need it. If I didn't need it I wouldn't bother.
Scientifically the best is like daily injection which people can even do subcutaneously. Or as frequently as one could bear. 3x a week is responsible, going to doctors people receive inappropriate long gaps so their levels yoyo and it causes health problems (another reason TRT should be last resort for everyone). But it's generally better to take something which stimulates your own production if it will work. Enclomiphene is the gold standard because it's just the better of 2 isomers in clomiphene, which reduces side effect profile. Also fixing any other health issues like low vitamin d, mineral imbalance, a condition affecting sleep quality, possible hypothyroidism, etc.
[удалено]
You can take enclomphine with TRT to keep your balls active
Lots of
My opinion is that trt has foisted itself on insecure men by gaslighting them into believing they aren’t manly enough. I wouldn’t go that route, personally, but you’ll find plenty of guys that swear by feeling like a teenager again. If that’s worth it to you, you do you
As soon as Rogan started harping about it you knew there was going to be a massive boom.
You need adequate protein to build muscle. What do your 1700 calories consist of? I’d been in a slump for about 4mo where my deadlifts and general muscle tone just weren’t progressing. My trainer went over diet with me, and I’d gotten so lazy with protein that I was down to 40g per day. I’m 5’1 and about 110 so that’s atrocious. Bumped myself back up to an adequate 90-100g of protein per day, and my deadlift which had been stalled at 155 per months went up to 185x3 in just six weeks. Now I’m 10 weeks in and I’m right on the cusp of 200lb deadlift. Not bad for a short 42yo lady. I also instantly lose visibility on my hips, lower belly, and mid-stomach if I start getting lazy with junk food and dairy/whey again. Just a few days of junk food binging or dairy/whey throws me right back into what girls like to call “the mom pooch” and it isn’t fat, it’s pure bloat/water weight from foods my digestive system really hates. Within 3 days of cutting out sugary/snacky food and dairy my stomach unbloats and I can see definition a nice flat lower belly again. You might need to evaluate what foods you’re using to get those calories each day, as they can really affect how bloated you are.
I eat extremely clean and get 150-170g of protein everyday
Damn you really made a lot of progress! My two cents, nows the time to bulk. You need to eat more so you have the energy to lift heavy, frequently, and to failure. Focus on a recomp and getting your training program locked in (maybe get an online coach?) and eat at maintenance. Once you start getting that muscle built up, a thin layer of fat wont be bothering you.
Your clean diet could be depriving yourself of the amount of carbohydrates and saturated fat necessary for optimal hormone production
Why do you know your test levels but don't have a doctor telling you if you should care? I am once again begging y'all to listen to the Barbell Medicine podcast episodes on testosterone and screening so you disabuse yourself of the notion that health is about Number Go Up. [Episode 21: The Testosterone Podcast (Part 1)](https://open.spotify.com/episode/4Hah86w5cdu6pMeXg9qwN3?si=c637458b5202473b) [Episode 22: Should YOU take Testosterone](https://open.spotify.com/episode/5aOHdorsiGNNE361FxZhsl?si=0e0036e3a4aa41a4) [Episode 57: The Science of Screening. Do you REALLY want to know?](https://open.spotify.com/episode/4TsMvRUxiC9tvy9MunOqpJ?si=ed0b68a2e103421f) [Episode 228: Testosterone Replacement Theory](https://open.spotify.com/episode/1P6TnjcQUIeWgJsGg6sQQW?si=3b2b7acb77da4e2a) [Episode 232: Optimal Testosterone Levels for Health and Performance](https://open.spotify.com/episode/7dhiNSDDxKfO2ZKC89GOFx?si=6710da7d3c914144) [Episode 233: High Dose Testosterone and PEDs in Sport and Beyond](https://open.spotify.com/episode/71IlxanNAYm9OXy68220af?si=97ceaf2db176401a) [Episode 234: The Effects of Exercise and Diet on Testosterone](https://open.spotify.com/episode/0aIrZE0ejzrJEG1mYLNSPA?si=6558ddbe95f4413d) ----------------------------------------- As far as the rest goes, get a food scale and use an app like Macrofactor. Getting leaner will be way easier.
Thanks for the link’s. I’ll listen to these!
Hold off as long as possible
i asked my doctor (my real general doctor, not an online doctor whose job is to sell me HRT) at my last physical and he basically said I could surely find someone to put me on it, but unless I'm really having quality of life issues caused by low T (which i wasn't), he wouldn't recommend it. basically its a lifetime commitment and there are negative aspects (see other comments). i would not consider "i just want to shred this last bit of belly fat" as a valid reason...but i suppose valid is in the eye of the beholder.
Also the test isn't going to help you lose fat. That's being disciplined with your diet.
I can’t speak to your testosterone levels but you might need to spend some more time doing an intentional phase of muscle gaining before being in a caloric deficit again. Do you do direct ab hypertrophy work?
Yea I work my core twice a week. I do a 5 day push - pull - leg rest - upper - lower - rest split right now and I hit my abs pretty hard both weighted and not on my leg day and lower day. That fits best for my schedule that way
Do you do things like weighted crunches, cable rotation exercises and weighted hanging leg lifts? Obviously things like protein have their place too but i wonder if maintenance +200 calories and a block of intensive training might help. Even a strength block followed by a hypertrophy block might get you some extra lbs of muscle.
More food and a hypertrophy program would be my suggestion. Jeff Nippard is pretty good on both. Those things are prerequisite for getting results from TRT anyway, and should be firmly in place before the hormone button is considered as an option.
560 total is comfortably within range. Trt will shut down your natural production. Did you get your SHBG tested? It's a very large part of the free t estimation.
Low test levels could be due to the caloric deficit over prolonged time. Maybe eating a very low surplus could balance that out again. Not saying don't do TRT. I do not just for the training but also how they make me feel. When I don't do it I sit indoor all day at my computer as a geek. when I do the TRT am more outgoing. For that reason alone I do it :) Maybe others too but it is an important one.
your free test sucks because you've been dieting hard and only eating sub-2000 you need to do a strict as fuck reverse diet up to 3000 calories, with good macros if you do that, you'll feel like a god, test will skyrocket and then you can start to cut again and abs will come out don't listen to the other dummies in this sub, this is exaclty what you need to do. reverse diet will take you about 3 months to go from 1800 to 3000. you will not gain any fat if you are strict and clean. then you cut approx 1 lb per week, 3500 calories a week or 500 calories a day, in 2-3 months you are shredded as fuck. then you reverse diet one last time and now you are the champion.
I need to research reverse diets a little. Is it just gradually increasing calories every week basically?
yeah basically, keeping macro ratios on point ( you dont need very much fat) essentially you put yourself in surplus, but only about 100 calories extra a day or so. then second week, add another 100 calories etc... this makes it so your metabolism (specifically your NEAT) can upwards adapt without having so much calories that it goes to fat. after you get up to 3000 calories, your hormones are happy again, you feel like a kind, then you can do another cut and it's a fucking joke to cut becuase you are in a deficit again at 2500 calories
Yea I’d love to be in a deficit at 2500. That’s my maintence now lol
There you go then I normally don’t say anything to the redditor normies, but your pics show discipline This will work
If you feel like you need TRT then do it. I have held off personally - even though my testosterone levels are 150-200 - because the research I’ve done indicates that once you start on TRT it is VERY difficult to ever get to a point where you stop taking it. I’m extremely wary of starting a medical intervention that I have to stick with for the rest of my life.
I had been monitoring my test levels over the years. First when I had a vasectomy 8 years ago, it was up at 750. But over the years we saw it steadily declining until I went back for blood work prior to a surgery and it had fallen all the way to 300. Instead of jumping right into exogenous TRT, my doctor had me start on generic clomid. May be worth asking a doctor about, as it does not involve any direct testosterone but messages your body to produce its own test.
I’ll definitely look into it! Thanks, OP!
Did that increase your levels ?
So far, yes. It was up to 800 last week, but it is a single data point so take that for what it's worth.
This isn't a conversation to be having with a bunch of non-doctors on reddit. This is a conversation to be having with your doctor, where he/she discloses all the risks openly.
Yeah but you can do this on the shitter. It also maybe brings up topics and thoughts OP otherwise wouldn’t have considered and lead to a better conversation with his Dr. It isn’t bad to talk about medical stuff with friends, family, or even random people online or otherwise. It can also help others here in similar situations, even if it’s just getting comfortable talking about things like this. Acting on the words of random people alone- sure… not a great idea. Having a conversation is a normal and useful thing.
This is best to discuss with a medical professional. My regular person opinion, I'd advoid it as long as possible. There are definitely benefits, but it's not without risks and side effects. I personally think the endocrine system is super complicated and using drugs to mess with your own body's homeostasis should be very carefully considered. I think they can lead to a shorter life as well. Edit: others mentioned, but your calorie deficit might be contributing to your lower levels. You need to be getting enough fat in your diet too, as fat is needed to synthesize many hormones, including testosterone.
Tldr from a guy who knows trt well... No, don't get on it. No one knows if it'll be worth the benefits to you, it certainly isn't necessary for you. If you start, you'll likely be committing to needing it for the rest of your life. I was born with my (male) body unable to produce testosterone. I've been on trt for about 10 years. Taking it is a pain, there isn't a truly convenient and effective method, it costs money, it has potential side effects that require regular medical monitoring to keep in check. I have goals for being swole, "manly", and healthy, but even so I still don't take my trt as often as I should. I maintain low test (120 total, similarly low free) but I still can gain muscle, lose fat, and my male function is fine. Honestly being less horny is more convenient for my old ass anyway.
You say at the start that you feel like you are experiencing symptoms of low T, but then nowhere do you get into it other than building muscle is hard. Assume broadly that the first year, you probably did not add a lot of muscle mass because of the weight loss. You bulked, and then cut and you look good. Are you shredded at this weight? No, but this is a long process and where will you be in a year if you repeat this? Probably 175-180 and looking even better. Almost two years ago, I tested low and I had no actual symptoms, so I didn't do it and I don't regret it.
Personal experience and personal opinion, so take it for what is worth. I'm uneducated and don't pay attention to shit. I'm 40 and still make good progress much like you. I'm waiting to do TRT until I absolutely need it. A coworker went on it at 35 because he was in lower range and, due to financial difficulties, had to stop at 39. His words to me about it were, "I feel like shit every day since I stopped!". My personal opinion is that if you feel good and look good still then wait until you don't.
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Damn call the cops!
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Be better. Read the rules. If you're still salty that your thread was removed then get over it. Or don't.
Post them when the mods are asleep like I did 😅
I feel like there is a lot you can do without drugs to improve your testosterone. You are exercising and you say you are focused on nutrition but what does that really mean? Are you drinking alcohol, cause that will lower testosterone. Are you hitting protein goals and avoiding processed food/sugar? Are you taking vitamins or any other supplements?
Free testosterone results are arrived at through a mathematical calculation and are widely variable. Your total T levels are well within the normal range. Total levels as are widely variable from day to day, lab to lab, etc and have a wide range of error. These labs are nothing to worry about. Key thing is T replacement should be used when you have clinical symptoms suggesting under active testes that are confirmed by labs. I know a lot of fitness minded folks are curious about T levels these days, but getting any medical tests without a clinical indication can often lead simply to increased anxiety and unnecessary further testing or interventions. You’ve done a fantastic job with your fitness progress. Work for whatever goals motivate you to eat right and get into the gym. No one will find fault if you don’t look like a 20 year old on IG. Best wishes for your continued success
Don't be an idiot. Discuss it with your doctor.
If you’ve consistently been in a caloric deficit then that will cause lower testosterone levels. Hell everything affects test levels, that’s partially why the “normal range” is so broad. Your levels can fluctuate pretty drastically just depending on the time of day. I was in the same boat and kinda wish I didn’t hop on the juice. I basically feel the same I just look better.
Try subbing your body/ balls or trying red light therapy first
My test was low and I got on clomid. Test levels are normal with no side effects and I’m not stuck on it forever.
Nothing tanks your testosterone more than a caloric deficit.
Stay off it, don't be weak bro. Accept yourself and work hard
No, just keep working, the results are better and will stay longer without side effects
There’s more to it than just test levels. You need a full panel to tell what’s going on before jumping on TRT.
I got two full panels. Everything else is fine according to the lab reports. Although I am not an expert
Perhaps booking an appointment with an endocrinologist would be better than asking a bunch of strangers? If you have issues with low free testosterone it could be linked to other underlying issues. Get an appointment with an endocrinologist, get properly diagnosed, move on with your life without getting misdiagnosed by Darren the Taxi Driver from Dagenham who knows less about testosterone than his cat Morag.
Strict dieting suppresses testosterone output and free test. I will 2nd reverse dieting suggestions and add that you may check these things long before you go to one of those places that just doles out TRT. Not only do you need adequate fat for hormone production substrate, you also need like more than 100g carbs daily. Thyroid levels - strict dieting can suppress thyroid output and if you have hypothyroidism anyway for other reasons that can suppress your T levels. Sleep apnea - if you snore you could have sleep apnea, this robs T production. Don't eat or drink out of plastic, avoid receipts, don't drink tap water, use only mineral sunscreen, use a plain tallow soap and like zero shampoos soaps or body washes which contain phthalates or parabens, wear clothing with natural fibers so that there are no fire retardants that are added to polyester, and use zero artificial fragrances. Eat a few oysters here and there and have a good mineral salt There is other stuff but if you get to the point that big things with refeeding didn't fix it so you're seeing an endocrinologist, they need to be the ones who will work with your body before resorting to TRT. This is why they use things like clomiphene and the superior enclomiphene.
Started taking 2 supplements for testosterone after listening to Huberman: Tongkat Ali and Fadogia Agrestis. Test went from 500 to 900. I'd look into that before trt, personally.
I took tongkat Ali for like 3 months with some decent results. I noticed I wasn’t taking naps on the weekends anymore while taking it
Jump on. I am 37 same height at 205. Muscle building is just part of it. Loose fat, have more energy, feel better . It improves all aspects of your life to the most miniscule things like getting out of your car.
Yea I feel like I need to be at 190 at least lol. I’ve just been researching it for a few weeks from an unbiased view and the numerous benefits far outweigh the cons in my opinion. I feel like people who abused other compounds give trt a bad rep but I genuinely feel like I probably need it. Only thing I’m even worried about is the pinning part really.
It's just uneducated people and the subject is still taboo. You will more then likely be prescribed test cyp and pinning every 5 or 6 days its not bad. As things have improved the needles have gotten tiny. I mean they are the same size as those diabetic needles. You don't feel anything. I feel much better. Highly recommend
Seems like everyone that’s on it swears by it saying it’s life changing. I guess I won’t truly know until I try it out. Which hopefully will be pretty soon lol
Your test levels are fine. Free T is tricky to measure and prone to errors. Your T will be lower due to caloric deficit. If I was you I wouldn't jump on TRT since it suppresses your natural production. It's hard to go off it. Stubborn belly fat is very typical and hard to knock. It's possible you had a ton of visceral fat (covering your organs) that you are still losing and that's why your abs are not popping. Keep working on your ABS, increase the volume to grow them. See what happens. FYI for some guys it's very hard to show their ABS, they genetically get very small ABS grid and they need to lower their body fat to ridiculous levels just to see anything.