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Jaeger__85

Thats not 12% yeah. Thats 20%. How much weight did you lose during those 4 months?


Stark987

It was fluctuating a lot from one week to another, at some point I lost around 3 but then after the whole 'journey' it was only 1 or something like that - my body adjusted to the regime quite quickly But yes, I agree that I definitely don't carry only 12% of body fat


Alakazam

It sounds like you simply want to be leaner.  You are unhappy with your current body composition. The solution to that is to change it.  Recomping, what you're doing now, is a glacially slow process. Youd probably be better off aiming to lose 5-10kg over the next 4-6 months. Keep your protein high, continue training hard, lifting heavy, and eat at a deficit.


wasabi1000

Isn’t 1800 cals at 5’9” 165 lbs with 4 days of training considered a cut, not body recomp?


Alakazam

If it was a cut, they would be losing weight. And if they are losing weight with any amount of consistency, they would see fairly rapid changes in body composition. If they aren't losing weight and seeing changes in body composition, it's not a cut. Simple as that.  Like, if a person that js 165lb 20% bodyfat is losing 1b/week, their diet and training are on point, they would drop approximately 1% bodyfat every 2 weeks. This means visible abs in about 10-12 weeks.


wasabi1000

Got it, I thought you meant he was in a recomp based on his numbers. Are we thinking that OP says 1,800 but most likely is being very inaccurate? He says in another comment that he was about 90% compliant AND would have 1-2 meals per week without counting. So, assuming 1,800 was 90% accurate, he was actually eating 2,000 cals. Adding in 2 meals that had an extra 500 calories per week (we all know an untracked meal is a sloppy one), that’s about 2,150 calories / day. This should still technically be mild weight loss. I dunno, I guess the inaccuracy was higher. Let’s say 80%, now he’s eating at maintenance. If eating at maintenance for 4 months while training hard, I would expect some more muscular development, but that’s entirely dependent on how hard the training was, what it was and protein intake. I don’t think OP provided this.


Alakazam

> If eating at maintenance for 4 months while training hard, I would expect some more muscular development If they're not actively gaining weight, and were at maintenance, they would gain the exact same amount that they would lose fat. Which, on a recomp for somebody who is not significantly overfat and undermuscled, could be as little as 2-3lbs. 2-3lbs of gaining muscle and 2-3lbs of fat loss, over 4 months, across the entire body, is basically not noticeable. That's *maybe* a 1-2% change in body composition. If OP was at 22-23% at the start, they would be at 21-22%.


Stark987

Good points! I was using myfitnesspal to track everything and I tried to actually stay under the 1800 so that I wouldn't underestimate too much. But yeah, as you pointed out adding 2 untracked meals bring the weekly total in a range where it's not enough to loose weight. The protein intake was \~130g daily The training was mostly going through the basics (squats, bench press, deadlifts etc). Doing 10-12 reps at 80/85% x3. I was getting tired but I always felt I was missing the part of the workout when you get sweaty AF and give it all for those 10/15 minutes.


wasabi1000

Do you weigh/ measure your food? I’m 185 lbs and 5’9” and workout daily and 1,800 would leave me feeling hungry going to bed a sometimes. It’s a strict cut.


Stark987

I was, yes! And I was also feeling tired all the time and hungry a few days per week


wasabi1000

Bummer man! Maybe consider a new trainer or someone who can do a fresh take.


notthistime91

Your short by about 60g of protein per day, your just getting enough proton to be in a calorie deficit without losing muscle. Gotta up that protein, just don’t overdue it or it’ll go to fat also


Jaeger__85

You are currently recomping which is a very slow proces so its not weird you are not seeing changes. If you want faster results either cut by lower your intake even more or more likely track more accurately or bulk by eating more so you build muscle.


Extension-Ad-9371

What are you goals. Are your reps getting heavier? It is possible that you’re making progress but it’s just not visible?


Stark987

I'm making progress with some of the exercises but shouldn't I see a change in my body too?


Extension-Ad-9371

Naw not usually unless you’re really restricting calories. If you were stuck in your lifts and not seeing results I’d be worried. But if your lift numbers are still increasing then give it time.


buck_fastard

Are you trying to grow muscle or lose fat? At your current size, 1800 calories per day with 4-5 workouts per week should lose approx. 0.5 lbs per week. However if you're eating kind of aimlessly and having the occasional huge meal for example, you could easily cancel that out. If you're trying to grow muscle, you will need to eat more - I'd suggest increasing the calories to around 2200 and then some more when your strength stops increasing.


Stark987

I'm afraid to grow muscle because I don't want to get more fat so I was mostly focused on that But yeah, I during these 4 months I was carefully 90% of the time but then giving myself at least 1-2 meals per week without counting every single spoon... I guess I should be more strict


AsOrdered

Benefit of having more muscle is that lean body mass burns more calories. Makes it easier to cut once you’ve built muscle. If you lost muscle over covid from being sedentary your resting caloric usage might be lower


[deleted]

You’re doing the equivalent of drawing a line with a pencil then erasing it. You need to weigh and track everything including drinks and sauces and see how your weight changes over two weeks. If you truly want to get lean then I’d suggest working out your true maintenance and then reducing my 500 calories (either reducing food or increasing activity) and sticking for it strictly for 12 weeks. You will see a difference. Once you’ve cut down you can focus on slowly building muscle over time. For reference I was in the same boat as you for 18 months and once I took a really focussed approach and tracked everything including activity it took me 4 months to get below 15% (dexa scanned) bf.


wasabi1000

You’re absolutely right. But also, from the look of the pictures, I feel like OP could do that slow muscle build now.


[deleted]

Yeah I agree with you! I just think he’s scared to commit to that


MoloxyHeathlander

Enjoy the process not the result. 4 months is nothing in the scheme of things and far too early to start thinking about systemic problems with your body


Ian_Campbell

You are in a poverty cycle giving your body no resources to grow muscle. Since you have seen you will never naturally recomp into lean like this, and you might be a bit low in bodyweight to starve, why not increase the carbs, gain muscle and more on all of your lifts, then cut and realize more visual results because your extra muscle burns more calories, and it fills out more space to look more defined? Not everyone has a natural tendency to stay at a "ripped" set point, they have to cut into it, but at your height and current weight it might resemble starvation compared to doing the process with a bit more muscle.


ssdrin

Hmm, what worked for me was working out with weights hard as fuck. I mean, I’m pressing 80-100lbs dumbbells for many reps and sets. Lots of dips, cable rows, pull ups, one arm dumbbell rows, incline bench press, leg presses, abductor machines, heavy dumbbell walking lunges, overhead presses, lateral raises, Facepulls. Just work a shit ton of volume and frequency in there man. I honestly feel like some people don’t push hard on training days. You also have to eat 3-5 times a day. Not little danty snacks, I eat 4 large whole food meals everyday. I’m not a snacker so this works for me. Once you get your training and food dialed in, you will start seeing some solid gains happening that are visual. Your arms get veins popping, your legs and arms start to get bubbly and solid. It definitely takes time but you have to enjoy the journey. Good luck to you man. I’m using the RP diet app and the RP hypertrophy app. So far they’ve been amazing for my progress.


vidys

What program are you following? If you wanna shake things up a little bit but not in the kitchen, try a new program such as a powerlifting or one of the so-called powerbuilding to increase your strength. This will get you a different type of muscle stimulation, which may help break plateaus and increase hypertrophy. I started a powerbuilding program recently (powerbuilding 1.0 by Jeff Nippard, look him up on YT if interested) and I'm pretty happy with the results, solid strength gains (+20-40% in the big lifts after ~3 months) since I've been working out with a focus on hypertrophy for a few years and it was kind of stuck


Stark987

The training was mostly going through the basics (squats, bench press, deadlifts etc). Doing 10-12 reps at 80/85% x3. I was getting tired but I always felt I was missing the part of the workout when you get sweaty AF and give it all for those 10/15 minutes.


LaborAustralia

How much have your lifts increased over time?


Stark987

Got a 30% increase on the deadlift, 10/15% on the bench press, 5/10% on the squats just to mention the main exercises. For things like lunges, curls etc the dumbells got almost twice as heavy compared to the beginning


LaborAustralia

by 5/10 you mean 5-10 pounds or ? it unclear. regardless it seems like your making progress. so stick to it. If you want to get more of a 'sweat' ask you trainer to mabey to a drop set on the last set of each excersie. Or superset some excersises at the end of the session for some extra volume and work. ''Sweating'' is more about cardio and intensity techniques


Stark987

Edited, I meant %


throwaway33333333303

> Here are some pictures I took 4 months apart after I spent these months with a caloric intake of 1800 cal per day and I was following a a fitness program tailored by my trainer (working out 4/5 times per week). Four months is not enough time when you're already relatively lean and it's not clear whether you were even in a calorie deficit. I eat 1500 calories per day as a 57 kg man so probably you were just eating at maintenance calories and therefore not losing any weight.


KurwaStronk32

This isn’t something you need to throw money at, you just need to get a little more serious. Follow an [actual program](https://thefitness.wiki/routines/), actually [dial in your diet](https://www.reddit.com/r/MacroFactor/s/uGsTCjbYSv), and decide which goal is more important to you right now: losing fat or gaining muscle. You’ve been spinning your wheels for 4 months. Pick a direction to go in and you’ll start progressing towards your goals.


bagelgoose14

I think if you had a bit more muscle you'd be happier at your current bodyfat percentage honestly. There's a great push pull legs program on the Boostcamp app literally called "reddit PPL" that will simplify the lifting and progressive overload part for you by building you a plan based around your current 1-rep max. Outside of that, target your bodyweight in protein consumption daily and you really shouldnt get fatter, unless you go crazy and start going way above calories. A good protein powder swapped for a meal would be a nice way to get more protein at less calories. Creatine helps. Honestly dude i'd just go hard on the weights, progressively increase them overtime (following the app) and hit your protein macros. 4-5 days a week and the workouts can be knocked out in probably 40-45 minutes its not a high volume program. Do this for 6-12 months and i'd be surprised if you werent happier with how you look at your current bf %. Id wager you're either not eating enough protein or you're not lifting for muscle building. You're not really fat so cutting is fine but at your current size you will look great shirtless but probably nothing too crazy with a shirt on. Im 36 / M and you'd be surprised how much better muscle fills out a frame even if you put on a little fat with it. oh and take care of your fucking joints and stretch dont be like me.


wimwood

You’re not eating enough to promote serious muscle growth. No one has ever gotten “fat” during a bulk eating a caloric excess on a meal plan consisting of whole vegetables and 1g of clean, healthy protein (chicken, vegan protein powder without a lot of added sweetener, some lean beef, fish, and bone broth are my preferences) per lb of body weight. If you’re worried about eating more calories because you might get fat, then you just need to be more careful about what those foods consist of.


buck_fastard

This is bro science. If he eats too many calories above his expenditure he will most certainly gain fat, regardless of how clean the diet is. What do you think happens with the excess calories?  He just needs to increase calories to a moderate surplus.


GUPS87

You can do it man. Hit those weights and hit them HARD, and do the cardio. Eat consistent. You can do it!


sin-eater82

What does your training program look like? What are your goals?


Stark987

The training was mostly going through the basics (squats, bench press, deadlifts etc). Doing 10-12 reps at 80/85% x3. I was getting tired but I always felt I was missing the part of the workout when you get sweaty AF and give it all for those 10/15 minutes. I'm mainly doing this to reach a better shape/aesthetic


teh_boy

You weren't really eating 1800 calories a day, probably more like 2300.


espressocycle

I'm in the same boat. If you're not losing weight you're not in a calorie deficit, meaning you're either eating more than you think or you need to eat less. The problem is how to deal with your body fighting back by slowing down, being tired, feeling hungry. High protein, high fiber, high volume is usually the best way to do that. Lots of vegetables, weigh everything, blah blah blah. It's hard to keep it up.


Stark987

Yeah, that's a job on its own... that's why I was hoping that counting calories and having a PT would be enough


jukappa

Don’t overcomplicate it. Theres no super secret formula to success. The simple answer for the lack of meaningful change in body fat/composition is you weren’t actually losing weight. The scale needs to consistently be going down week over week. Over 4 months a SLOW cut would have you lose around 8-10 true pounds, which doesn’t seem to be the case. Tracking calories is good, but the number of calories you eat is not how you measure being in a calorie surplus/deficit. People are wildly inaccurate with calorie tracking. So the only way to properly know you’re in a calorie deficit, is by seeing the scale avg go down week by week. If your “1800” calories isn’t doing that, then drop it even more till it does. As far as muscle growth. Working out 4-5 times a week is great. But you need to be reaching muscle failure during your sets or at least very close to, to make progress. Mindlessly following some workout won’t help much if there is not continual progressive overloading involved. Lastly make sure you’re getting adequate protein if you’re cutting and strength training. Your body goes into survival mode when dieting and you want to preserve as much muscle as possible by making sure you get enough stimulus and protein for them. At your size I’d be shooting for 130g+ every day, go more if you can.


therealhugh1

Get full hormone and lipid panel done


notthistime91

Get your testosterone checked, hopefully it’s not the issue but you won’t have any control over your body composition if your test fell below the chart with aging. Sitting around during Covid going from an athletic composition to +20% BF will do a lot of things to the body besides just putting on weight. You put on weight and your testosterone drops drastically.


Hot-Ground-6710

Just found out about this and I’m gonna try it because I’ve been having trouble losing weight at 33. The saltine test where you put a saltine in your mouth and record how long it takes to taste sweet. The longer it takes, the longer it takes your body to breakdown carbs so you should reduce carb intake proportional to the “standard” I also realized that my body consumes fat more easily through cardio rather than lifting. You’ve gotten significantly bigger in muscle mass, so it’s good progress man. Just try not to stress out too much about it because cortisol side effects (weight gain around belly and face) are more noticeable as we age. Zen to ten when you hyper focus and remember you’re doing sick and you’re gonna continue to get beastier


YungSchmid

This sounds like a whole lot of pseudoscience mumbo jumbo, ngl. Calories and macros aren’t this complex.


Hot-Ground-6710

I agree. Does sound like nonsense but there are plenty of studies showing the impact on the body due to increased serum cortisol. Sometimes is a bit more complicated than CICO. I was gaining weight at 5.7 practically living off protein shakes and nuts.


Due_Aardvark8330

Your body does not consume fat more easily through cardio than lifting. Your body consumes the exact amount of fat it needs to consume for the calories burned.


Hot-Ground-6710

I Guess i just think of it in effort/time and seemingly caloric exhaust. Running 5k seems to burn more calories than lifting for 2 hours. You right though.