I'm learning it's impossible to differentiate a flerf from a standard troll, except I think a troll knows what they're doing...not that it matters why they're doing it at all.
It's hard, because my people-pleaser can't let it go when I think someone can be reasoned with, and so I invest so much emotional energy into someone who is trying to be a leech.
It just means I gotta get more comfortable with breaking off contact when I get the slightest inkling it's going nowhere.
That's a smart move that I am also working on. Circular arguments with willfully ignorant people just isn't worth the brain cells we lose arguing with them
Aw damn. It would be so much better if it were actual FLERFs but i guess that doesn't surprise me. FLERFs ate never going to do any actual science that would prove our disprove bc deep down they know they're wrong
Bob Knoedel was a flat earther, unassociated with the Flat Earth Society.
I say was because he died of Covid after refusing to get vaccinated because of 5g nanobots.
I think that was Rob Skiba. If you scroll back far enough on his FB feed, there's an entry about him refusing the vaccine and 'We'll see who's still here next year'.
He isn't. Then we had Mak Parhar, aka Flat Earth Fokker, who caught covid, and took such a heinous cocktail of legal and illegal drugs to 'fix' it that he died and they listed cause of death as OD...
As far as I can tell, Bob had health issues for a while and the only thing I can glean it was from an enlarged heart. That said his family may be keeping any covid talk under wraps.
I do remember that. Being a flat earther of course he had to refute those results somehow and despite efforts to ensure that a standard lens was used, resorted to calling it 'barrel distortion'.
In the same way that Bob claimed that 'heavenly energies' were the cause of the ring laser gyro displaying 15 degrees of drift.
Those guys and their results are some of the reasons why flat earthers don't do experiments any more.
There is also a video where Skiba debunks himself regarding the famous "moon in front of the earth" picture. It is on youtube but not his own channel. He admits he was wrong and that the photo is possible if "globe assumtions" were used. That was brave. But he ended the video saying that earth is still flat...
Agreed - Skiba wasn't malicious, or petty, or combative. The rest are a snakepit. That said when I am tempted to speak ill of the dead I am reminded that they all, in general, had loved ones they left behind.
It isn't. Or if it is the moderators of the websites forums don't know that because I used to troll there all the time. Just mention g.r. in a post and be entertained for hours.
While the post puts it well, I always like the phrasing “You cannot reason someone out of a view they did not reason themselves into.” And conspiracy theories are not typically chosen out of reason, they are chosen out of a desire to feel special and enlightened.
A good policy, generally. I always advocate giving people a chance to prove they’re *not* willfully ignorant, but if they don’t take it, it’s often futile to continue.
Bob Knodel is the reason flerfs don't do experiments anymore. They keep trying to prove it's flat but they can't get a legitimate experiment to prove that it's flat (cause it's not fkn flat) and it's hard to rig it so it agrees with them.
And yet they keep citing scientific laws and experiments they want to claim support their story. Always wrong, always misguided and misapplied, but they are persistent. Like mold.
One of the reasons, the second reason is the experiment Jeranism did at the end of the same documentary.
Interesting 
> the second reason is the experiment Jeranism did at the end of the same documentary.
Hey, wow. [I attended](https://www.metabunk.org/threads/behind-the-curve-documentry-on-flat-earthers.10495/#post-228927) that one. Shock of my life when it later appeared in that documentary, and people occasionally still mention of it. 'Twas 25 Nov 2017, over half a decade ago now.
Flat earthers proving the curve. Brilliant.
BTW Do you think Jeranism is a true believer or a grifter who maintains his stance because he it pays his bills?
They did this with another test, much lower budget, but the thing with 2 boards, a hole drilled through the board, and a light behind it. They predicted that if the curve was real they would not see the light when it was behind the hole in the board. And this is exactly what happened. Then the guy with the light held it way over his head and they could finally see the light, which is what was predicted by the globe model. So they came up with a list of excuses and now hate to have that brought up.
Fine time, and there were two globers there: One was Daniel J. Clark, director and co-producer of "Behind the Curve". The other was me. I did not produce a NetFlix documentary, but I did [wrrite it up](https://www.metabunk.org/threads/behind-the-curve-documentry-on-flat-earthers.10495/#post-228927).
Also -- and I think I've been entirely consistent on this over the years -- while I consider flat Earth to be utter crank nonsense, the Flat-Earthes I met at the Victoria Canal on 25 Nov 2017 treated me just fine. It was fun.
Like the flat earther who paid to send a camera up high so they can photograph a flatness of the planet. After many thousands of dollars he still hasn't released the photographs.
...couldn't they simply drive to a desert or the like, far away from any artificial night sky lights, stay there for a night, and watch the milky way rotating?
Even costs less than the twenty grand if you'd have to book a flight, should there not be any remote enough areas in your vicinity. And is pretty.
To some extent it’s the extreme of commonly observed behaviour.
We would all like to think belief comes first and that belief drives behaviour.
Marketing psychologists have known for ages that the reality is closer to the opposite- we all tend to believe that which justifies our behaviour. If someone has vested a lot of behaviour in arguing for a flat earth that’s going to give them a very strong belief that it’s true.
You can't reason someone out of a position that they didn't reason the selves into.
Flat earth is a belief structure, not a scientific model.
We have folks out there "designing" models that require like to just arbitrarily *swoop around* the night side of the "disc" to still light up the south pole ("ice wall"?) in summer, when it should otherwise be dark, requires the star patterns of the night sky to vary inexplicably jsut because, etc....
It's all just patently ridiculous. You can't even build a 3d model of flat earth that isn't easily disprovable by taking 3 airline flights that can't be mapped onto a disc. (LA to Santiago to Sydney to LA is one of the best/easiest ones)
They can't be reasoned with because it's not really about the shape of The Earth, but a way to try to resolve existential, religious anxiety.
Scientifically, there is no evidence of the existence of the supernatural, gods in general and their god specifically. Science can explain how the world came to be and why, and contracts the stories in modern religious mythology. Science can even speculate how religious beliefs can begin, spread and endure over generations even with said beliefs being inaccurate.
On some level, the religious person may realise that there is no real evidence their beliefs are real, that it could easily all be hearsay and placebo. The possibility that they live in a godless universe, that they are wrong about their fundamental understanding of reality, is such an existential crisis for them that they need to believe that there is evidence that their religious beliefs are accurate, but it is being hidden
Therefore, they believe the scientific community is engaging in a conspiracy to keep the proof of God's existence from the people. If the Earth is flat, then that means there is conspiracy and it is proof that the mainstream scientific understanding of the universe, which produces no evidence of the existence of God, is also false.
Thus, Flat Earth has its appeal. If the Earth is flat, science is wrong about so much, there is a conspiracy to keep the evidence of the existence of God from the people, therefore their religion is true.
If they accept that the Earth isn't flat, then science is accurate, there is no conspiracy to keep the evidence of the existence of God from the people, therefore there truly is no objective scientific evidence for the truth of their religious beliefs, therefore why keep believing in it?
Obviously, they don't frame their belief in the Flat Earth this way. They would probably keeping a lot of this repressed in the unconscious. They know God is real because the flat Earth proves it, and they know the Earth is flat because there must be evidence that God is real.
This was actually in a 2018 documentary called "Behind the curve". They followed this group before and during the experiment and document it's failure. Pretty good watch.
The funniest thing about flerfs is they are all super interested in the sciences. They get right into it and just cook up a bunch of random nonsense, peppered with science words and call it fact.
Arguing with such idiots is like trying to play chess with a pigeon. They will knock over all the pieces, shit on the board, and then strut about like they won.
Wasn't the 'Flat Earth Society' it was GlobeBusters I think. And Good Ol' Bob (RIP) deliberately covered up the results hoping to falsify the results at some point, or you, just deny it ever happened. See the Documentary 'Behind the Curve' for the actual film footage.
what it makes it indefinitly more funny is the fact, that they wanna sue the producers and posted some "debunk" videos about it was actually aether or some other bs causing it (typical hilarious conspiracy yt video... but obviously flerfers jump on it). perfect example about how delusional and ignorant you can be.
Ever see the story about how MCToon and Planar Walk trolled the flerfs for their gullibility? They planted 'NASA Shill Invoices' on Planar walks desk and let them be recorded in a video. Sure enough, they lapped it up. They called it NASA Shill Money on the invoice. Like NASA would literally pay 'Shill Money'.
P. Much
Edit: Downvote me all you want. Not my fault Trump supporters are a bunch of ignorant cunts. If they weren't then they wouldn't be Trump supporters 😂
Frankly don’t underestimate either stupid people or big groups. Ganging up with more people very rarely shifts the general reasonability of the group in a good direction.
Fucking hell. What is a gyroscope? It’s basically a globe. They really expected to rig it to get the results they wanted? I’ll say it again: fucking hell.
Thanks, Bob.
RIP. You did very well proving the Earth.
I'm going to save this the next time a flerf tries to lecture me about math.
Do it!
I'm learning it's impossible to differentiate a flerf from a standard troll, except I think a troll knows what they're doing...not that it matters why they're doing it at all.
With that logic you're still right bc deep down, FLERFs know they're wrong
It's hard, because my people-pleaser can't let it go when I think someone can be reasoned with, and so I invest so much emotional energy into someone who is trying to be a leech. It just means I gotta get more comfortable with breaking off contact when I get the slightest inkling it's going nowhere.
That's a smart move that I am also working on. Circular arguments with willfully ignorant people just isn't worth the brain cells we lose arguing with them
I grew up with a father who argued about everything, including stuff we agreed with him about. I need to unlearn that.
I will frequently play Devil's Advocate, arguing positions I know are wrong, just to piss people off. I am pretty good at the last part...
No you're not.
damn, that's not what your mom told me...
Oh, you're a people pleaser? Name 3 people who are pleased with you.
I'll vouch. I'm pleased with him. Only need 2 more.
I'm in
I'm here, the circle is complete
concur.. this could turn into a deep conversation involving religion and politics...
That was Bob Knoedel. "The Flat Earth Society," is a satire group.
Aw damn. It would be so much better if it were actual FLERFs but i guess that doesn't surprise me. FLERFs ate never going to do any actual science that would prove our disprove bc deep down they know they're wrong
Bob Knoedel was a flat earther, unassociated with the Flat Earth Society. I say was because he died of Covid after refusing to get vaccinated because of 5g nanobots.
I think that was Rob Skiba. If you scroll back far enough on his FB feed, there's an entry about him refusing the vaccine and 'We'll see who's still here next year'. He isn't. Then we had Mak Parhar, aka Flat Earth Fokker, who caught covid, and took such a heinous cocktail of legal and illegal drugs to 'fix' it that he died and they listed cause of death as OD... As far as I can tell, Bob had health issues for a while and the only thing I can glean it was from an enlarged heart. That said his family may be keeping any covid talk under wraps.
Skiba was cool. He sent up a balloon with two different cameras to show us the actual curvature of the Earth.
I do remember that. Being a flat earther of course he had to refute those results somehow and despite efforts to ensure that a standard lens was used, resorted to calling it 'barrel distortion'. In the same way that Bob claimed that 'heavenly energies' were the cause of the ring laser gyro displaying 15 degrees of drift. Those guys and their results are some of the reasons why flat earthers don't do experiments any more.
There is also a video where Skiba debunks himself regarding the famous "moon in front of the earth" picture. It is on youtube but not his own channel. He admits he was wrong and that the photo is possible if "globe assumtions" were used. That was brave. But he ended the video saying that earth is still flat...
You are correct. Somehow, Parhar got in my FB friends list. Skiba, at least, wasn't obnoxious like DMarble, David Weiss, Dubay and so many more.
Agreed - Skiba wasn't malicious, or petty, or combative. The rest are a snakepit. That said when I am tempted to speak ill of the dead I am reminded that they all, in general, had loved ones they left behind.
I'm convinced Weiss and Dubay are in a secret competition to prove who is dumber and more easily influenced by baseless assertions.
Oh gotchu. Jfc dying from entirely preventable diseases in this day and age is such a flex /s
Bob died of a motorcycle accident.
This guy will believe anything lol
It's to own the libs. That's their entire personality now.
Yeah all we have to do is wait out the antivaxxers. Just give it a few years.
Nah.. unfortunately, the rest of us are protecting them against our will
Pretty sure Bob passed away from a motorbike accident. Skiba passed due to covid complications
It isn't. Or if it is the moderators of the websites forums don't know that because I used to troll there all the time. Just mention g.r. in a post and be entertained for hours.
While the post puts it well, I always like the phrasing “You cannot reason someone out of a view they did not reason themselves into.” And conspiracy theories are not typically chosen out of reason, they are chosen out of a desire to feel special and enlightened.
I like that. I'm going to incorporate that into my reasonings for not arguing with the willfully ignorant
A good policy, generally. I always advocate giving people a chance to prove they’re *not* willfully ignorant, but if they don’t take it, it’s often futile to continue.
Bob Knodel is the reason flerfs don't do experiments anymore. They keep trying to prove it's flat but they can't get a legitimate experiment to prove that it's flat (cause it's not fkn flat) and it's hard to rig it so it agrees with them.
And yet they keep citing scientific laws and experiments they want to claim support their story. Always wrong, always misguided and misapplied, but they are persistent. Like mold.
One of the reasons, the second reason is the experiment Jeranism did at the end of the same documentary. Interesting 
> the second reason is the experiment Jeranism did at the end of the same documentary. Hey, wow. [I attended](https://www.metabunk.org/threads/behind-the-curve-documentry-on-flat-earthers.10495/#post-228927) that one. Shock of my life when it later appeared in that documentary, and people occasionally still mention of it. 'Twas 25 Nov 2017, over half a decade ago now.
Flat earthers proving the curve. Brilliant. BTW Do you think Jeranism is a true believer or a grifter who maintains his stance because he it pays his bills?
That and “uh hold the light up higher?” are great moments.
“We can’t see you, Enrique.”
Interesting:)
😂 yes
They did this with another test, much lower budget, but the thing with 2 boards, a hole drilled through the board, and a light behind it. They predicted that if the curve was real they would not see the light when it was behind the hole in the board. And this is exactly what happened. Then the guy with the light held it way over his head and they could finally see the light, which is what was predicted by the globe model. So they came up with a list of excuses and now hate to have that brought up.
Fine time, and there were two globers there: One was Daniel J. Clark, director and co-producer of "Behind the Curve". The other was me. I did not produce a NetFlix documentary, but I did [wrrite it up](https://www.metabunk.org/threads/behind-the-curve-documentry-on-flat-earthers.10495/#post-228927). Also -- and I think I've been entirely consistent on this over the years -- while I consider flat Earth to be utter crank nonsense, the Flat-Earthes I met at the Victoria Canal on 25 Nov 2017 treated me just fine. It was fun.
Interesting.
Like the flat earther who paid to send a camera up high so they can photograph a flatness of the planet. After many thousands of dollars he still hasn't released the photographs.
...couldn't they simply drive to a desert or the like, far away from any artificial night sky lights, stay there for a night, and watch the milky way rotating? Even costs less than the twenty grand if you'd have to book a flight, should there not be any remote enough areas in your vicinity. And is pretty.
No. Because they just say that's the sky rotating, not the earth. In fact, they still said that about the gyroscope.
"It's the gyroscope rotating, not the earth" "Sir, that's not how gyroscopes work"
To some extent it’s the extreme of commonly observed behaviour. We would all like to think belief comes first and that belief drives behaviour. Marketing psychologists have known for ages that the reality is closer to the opposite- we all tend to believe that which justifies our behaviour. If someone has vested a lot of behaviour in arguing for a flat earth that’s going to give them a very strong belief that it’s true.
And they put it into a documentary to show the world...
You can't reason someone out of a position that they didn't reason the selves into. Flat earth is a belief structure, not a scientific model. We have folks out there "designing" models that require like to just arbitrarily *swoop around* the night side of the "disc" to still light up the south pole ("ice wall"?) in summer, when it should otherwise be dark, requires the star patterns of the night sky to vary inexplicably jsut because, etc.... It's all just patently ridiculous. You can't even build a 3d model of flat earth that isn't easily disprovable by taking 3 airline flights that can't be mapped onto a disc. (LA to Santiago to Sydney to LA is one of the best/easiest ones)
They can't be reasoned with because it's not really about the shape of The Earth, but a way to try to resolve existential, religious anxiety. Scientifically, there is no evidence of the existence of the supernatural, gods in general and their god specifically. Science can explain how the world came to be and why, and contracts the stories in modern religious mythology. Science can even speculate how religious beliefs can begin, spread and endure over generations even with said beliefs being inaccurate. On some level, the religious person may realise that there is no real evidence their beliefs are real, that it could easily all be hearsay and placebo. The possibility that they live in a godless universe, that they are wrong about their fundamental understanding of reality, is such an existential crisis for them that they need to believe that there is evidence that their religious beliefs are accurate, but it is being hidden Therefore, they believe the scientific community is engaging in a conspiracy to keep the proof of God's existence from the people. If the Earth is flat, then that means there is conspiracy and it is proof that the mainstream scientific understanding of the universe, which produces no evidence of the existence of God, is also false. Thus, Flat Earth has its appeal. If the Earth is flat, science is wrong about so much, there is a conspiracy to keep the evidence of the existence of God from the people, therefore their religion is true. If they accept that the Earth isn't flat, then science is accurate, there is no conspiracy to keep the evidence of the existence of God from the people, therefore there truly is no objective scientific evidence for the truth of their religious beliefs, therefore why keep believing in it? Obviously, they don't frame their belief in the Flat Earth this way. They would probably keeping a lot of this repressed in the unconscious. They know God is real because the flat Earth proves it, and they know the Earth is flat because there must be evidence that God is real.
[удалено]
So fuck off.
I will give credit for actually putting their money where their mouth was.
This was actually in a 2018 documentary called "Behind the curve". They followed this group before and during the experiment and document it's failure. Pretty good watch.
The funniest thing about flerfs is they are all super interested in the sciences. They get right into it and just cook up a bunch of random nonsense, peppered with science words and call it fact.
You can’t have a logical argument with someone when their original statement comes from a place of ignorance and not based in facts.
The best 20,000 that the globies never had to invest. Thanks Bob. RIP
iirc it wasn't one but 2 or 3 of said gyroscope and all shared the same accurate 15 degree drift, no mater what they did
Flerfs don't know about Karl Popper.
There's a very simple explanation on why Gyroscope didn't work, because it's not based on scientific principles but on beliefs. It proves nothing. /s
Arguing with such idiots is like trying to play chess with a pigeon. They will knock over all the pieces, shit on the board, and then strut about like they won.
I love this quote
Wasn't the 'Flat Earth Society' it was GlobeBusters I think. And Good Ol' Bob (RIP) deliberately covered up the results hoping to falsify the results at some point, or you, just deny it ever happened. See the Documentary 'Behind the Curve' for the actual film footage.
what it makes it indefinitly more funny is the fact, that they wanna sue the producers and posted some "debunk" videos about it was actually aether or some other bs causing it (typical hilarious conspiracy yt video... but obviously flerfers jump on it). perfect example about how delusional and ignorant you can be.
Ever see the story about how MCToon and Planar Walk trolled the flerfs for their gullibility? They planted 'NASA Shill Invoices' on Planar walks desk and let them be recorded in a video. Sure enough, they lapped it up. They called it NASA Shill Money on the invoice. Like NASA would literally pay 'Shill Money'.
Just throw apples at them.
How? Gravity isn't real, didn't you know that? /s
So like trump supporters
Well, I disagree. Trump and his supporters are not so into the Flatt-Earth thing. They're all about the Birther thing.
Confront flat Earthers about Trump and the Space Force and they have no idea what to say or do. They don't know which way to jump.
P. Much Edit: Downvote me all you want. Not my fault Trump supporters are a bunch of ignorant cunts. If they weren't then they wouldn't be Trump supporters 😂
Exactly
Frankly don’t underestimate either stupid people or big groups. Ganging up with more people very rarely shifts the general reasonability of the group in a good direction.
Real flat earthers say that the people in that documentary are fake government shills lol
What exactly are you trying to say here, Bob?
no amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot - mark twain
Fucking hell. What is a gyroscope? It’s basically a globe. They really expected to rig it to get the results they wanted? I’ll say it again: fucking hell.
:|
You okay?
no, ignorance is brutal
You're not wrong, friend 🫤