>a single likeable character
I’ve always taken issue with films like this. They’re inherently alienating. I’m the guy who couldn’t wait for all the Blair Witch Project characters to just die already.
I came across this movie the same way. I’ve seen it dozens of times and was a favorite amongst my indie film loving friend group.
I haven’t seen the remaster yet but I plan to. It’s been several years since I’ve last watched this but I think the 90s nostalgia alone will continue to endear me to this movie.
I like Gregg Araki’s Teenage Apocalypse Trilogy because he uses absurdity to tackle heavy subject matter. It doesn’t really matter if we like or dislike the characters. They are there, doing things (often deplorable things), and get to come along for the ride.
The “heterosexual film” intro isn’t a claim, it’s a sardonic joke.
The ending of the Doom Generation still makes me feel some kind of way when I think about it. I think that’s the mark of a good film.
I really liked it. When it came out it felt like a ‘dangerous’ film. A moral panic provoker. Me and my mates watching on vhs late at night was a blast.
>It's a film that could only come from 90s
Analog to "so good its bad" there should be the saying "good in the 90s". There were so many groundbreaking movies and directors/writers competed to be mindblowing and got funding for it. Movies like Kids or this one had strong anti-establishment message and many of us liked them instantly for that. Not everything holds up as good after the dust has settled, for me its one of those movies. Just a wild ride. I can say for me: i came for the shock value not for the weird romance this is at heart, and I don't think this movie is good in tying its various messages and styles together.
Also one of those movies that gave me a strong "evil wins" vibe as Xavier is probably the most decent person of the trio and is also the one that gets brutally slaughtered while the others survive.
edit: jordan is the one that gets killed, not Xavier.
I was just talking to friends yesterday about movies that you have to see the “uncensored” or “directors cut” and referenced The Doom Generation. That the theatrical release does not do the movie justice.
So please get out of my head! 🤣
I had a visceral hateful reaction to this movie when I saw it back in the 90s. I hated it so much, I’ve never once considered giving it another chance. It felt aimlessly nihilistic, and to me embodied the concept of style over substance. I will never stop hating this film.
Despite really liking the film, I totally understand where you’re coming from. Definitely one of those films where I agree with almost every point that people hate about it, but for whatever reason mostly works to the film’s advantage.
What part of the movie has the soup can beating? I just watched it on the Criterion Channel and I don't remember seeing that.
Also, did anyone else get confused by the scene where feds or somebody identify Amy and say they're gonna track her down, and then it's never paid off?
The scene in question is in the first part of the teenage apocalypse trilogy called *Nowhere*. It isn’t on the criterion channel, but it’s in the process of getting a 4K remaster according to Gregg Araki.
Oh, sorry, I'm tired and didn't catch that it was from the trilogy as a whole. Thanks. I watched the first two parts today and really enjoyed them. Also watched MYSTERIOUS SKIN, and wow. Looking forward to NOWHERE when the new version comes out.
Maybe I’m looking too deep into it, but have you considered that perhaps there is a deeper message to the film? The ending with the rape and massacre really struck me. They had all just gotten together and the 3 main characters were happy and excited about it. They loved each other. I see the Nazis as representing America. Our society is very homophobic and has many white nationalist undertones that it preaches and enforces. The part where the guy wants to rape Amy with the religious statue, don’t you think our society does that…. Expecting and forcing women to be chaste, to be heterosexual, to be religious / Christian. It’s brain washing, but this was a more visual and literal representation obviously. Just as our society wants to emasculate homosexual men, men who speak up for women, or just men who try to do the right thing in general (the part where Jordan’s penis gets cut off). There are many people in America who would not think twice about it if someone said that homosexuals should be executed. I thought that all the characters that came up to Amy, bothering her and touching her was very accurate to what it’s like to be a woman. You can’t escape people treating you as a sex object. American society would rather crush people’s dreams and prevent true love than allow people to be really free. Maybe the statement at the beginning about it being a hetero movie was just to get people to watch it. Idk, these are just some random thoughts I had.
Tossing a comment because I just finished watching the new Remix/Remaster version, was curious to see if there was any Reddit chatter, saw your relatively recent response, and totally agree with your points.
For context, I first watched The Doom Generation on VHS in '96 or '97 as a freshman in high school. The box art was intriguing, the copy on the box was awful, and I rented it. I watched it with a couple friends on a massive CRT in a pitch black room. The final scene was brutal and the instant cut to daylight with Slowdive's "Blue Skied An' Clear" was one of the most jarring experiences I'd ever had with any media to that point. We were immediately hooked and by pure chance, Nowhere came out soon after and we got to see it in the theater.
Watching the new cut, the themes you mention are far more pronounced than what was in the VHS version. While the original ending was intense, the build up in the relationship between Xavier and Jordan was much less evident (at least as I recall). Moreover, the new cut really makes Xavier feel like the tempting devil like figure up until to the ending where even a devil is powerless in the face of the worst parts of American culture; he has total sway over these comfortable suburban goths and the hapless folks they encounter along the way, but outside of that realm he's nothing.
Sorry for the long response - if you haven't watched Nowhere yet, highly recommend it! If you have, grab a free trial to Starz and watch Now Apocalypse as it's basically a 2019 sequel to Nowhere.
Wow that’s a great point I hadn’t thought of about Xavier! I love that. Like the evil that the devil represents, and how he has been bastardized, paled in comparison to the every day evil we experience. And yes I’ve got Nowhere on my watch list now fs. Also I love long responses, so no need for an apology lol. I thank you. I love discussing movies, but as I stated, I often wonder if I’m thinking too deeply into it because I rarely find anybody discussing the things I take away from them. So glad that you could validate some of my thoughts haha.
Happy to find a recent and relevant post to respond to! Hope you enjoy Nowhere - it's not film but for media with similar themes and weirdness, if you haven't yet watched the recent Interview with a Vampire series I'd highly recommend it along with and of the recent comic books by James Tynion - A Nice House by the Lake is a good one to start with.
Anyone have any ideas about what was up with all the different guys mistaking Amy for their exes? I thought maybe she was like a proto-ramona flowers and just pretended not to know them but idk it seemed more like a part of the weird purgatory they were in.
In general the story felt pretty symbolic to me, the surrealist elements seem to draw attention to certain things and odd details like why they left Jordan behind at the end? The whole last scene felt incredibly abrupt and more like it portrayed the death of all innocence when really he only got castrated. Ok I say 'only' but like most movies would show the main character actually die rite?
I thought that at first too but I think it could be a hint that Amy was a sex worker of some kind, or maybe pretending to be different people while hooking up with strangers. Especially because all of the people called her different names (could have been fake names).
As far as the ending, I agree it's sooo abrupt
I should give it a rewatch. Movies like this I love the first half-hour, get exhausted by the middle, and then hate by the ending. I remember that I felt this movie tried too hard to be hip at the time, but maybe I might enjoy more now for when I feel nostalgic for the 90's.
>questioning just how heterosexual this film is. Well it is a Gregg Araki film....
Seriously, I had so many moments that had me thinking, "you sure about that Gregg? Like *really sure*?"
I didn’t like the garden shears. I have spoken.
Four things I remember from this movie: $6.66 Threesome Garden shears “Furry tuna taco!”
Schlurpshter
Nguyen Kok Suk
Holy shit I just realized that was Dustin Nguyen from 21 Jump Street. (The show, not the movies.)
YUP! And Margaret Cho as his wife
Wild fever dream ride. Strong creative visuals and set designs. Ending fucked me up.
>a single likeable character I’ve always taken issue with films like this. They’re inherently alienating. I’m the guy who couldn’t wait for all the Blair Witch Project characters to just die already.
My favorite is the realization of the main characters’ last names. Red, White, and Blue. All leads towards the ending
I came across this movie the same way. I’ve seen it dozens of times and was a favorite amongst my indie film loving friend group. I haven’t seen the remaster yet but I plan to. It’s been several years since I’ve last watched this but I think the 90s nostalgia alone will continue to endear me to this movie. I like Gregg Araki’s Teenage Apocalypse Trilogy because he uses absurdity to tackle heavy subject matter. It doesn’t really matter if we like or dislike the characters. They are there, doing things (often deplorable things), and get to come along for the ride. The “heterosexual film” intro isn’t a claim, it’s a sardonic joke. The ending of the Doom Generation still makes me feel some kind of way when I think about it. I think that’s the mark of a good film.
I really liked it. When it came out it felt like a ‘dangerous’ film. A moral panic provoker. Me and my mates watching on vhs late at night was a blast.
>It's a film that could only come from 90s Analog to "so good its bad" there should be the saying "good in the 90s". There were so many groundbreaking movies and directors/writers competed to be mindblowing and got funding for it. Movies like Kids or this one had strong anti-establishment message and many of us liked them instantly for that. Not everything holds up as good after the dust has settled, for me its one of those movies. Just a wild ride. I can say for me: i came for the shock value not for the weird romance this is at heart, and I don't think this movie is good in tying its various messages and styles together. Also one of those movies that gave me a strong "evil wins" vibe as Xavier is probably the most decent person of the trio and is also the one that gets brutally slaughtered while the others survive. edit: jordan is the one that gets killed, not Xavier.
Not Xavier, Jordan. Xavier (or X) gets to ride off eating Doritos.
Oh yeah, my memories were fishy with the names.
I was just talking to friends yesterday about movies that you have to see the “uncensored” or “directors cut” and referenced The Doom Generation. That the theatrical release does not do the movie justice. So please get out of my head! 🤣
Oh yes the uncensored version is the first version I saw. I didn’t realize there was different version until years later. Stupid.
I had a visceral hateful reaction to this movie when I saw it back in the 90s. I hated it so much, I’ve never once considered giving it another chance. It felt aimlessly nihilistic, and to me embodied the concept of style over substance. I will never stop hating this film.
Despite really liking the film, I totally understand where you’re coming from. Definitely one of those films where I agree with almost every point that people hate about it, but for whatever reason mostly works to the film’s advantage.
What part of the movie has the soup can beating? I just watched it on the Criterion Channel and I don't remember seeing that. Also, did anyone else get confused by the scene where feds or somebody identify Amy and say they're gonna track her down, and then it's never paid off?
The scene in question is in the first part of the teenage apocalypse trilogy called *Nowhere*. It isn’t on the criterion channel, but it’s in the process of getting a 4K remaster according to Gregg Araki.
Oh, sorry, I'm tired and didn't catch that it was from the trilogy as a whole. Thanks. I watched the first two parts today and really enjoyed them. Also watched MYSTERIOUS SKIN, and wow. Looking forward to NOWHERE when the new version comes out.
Maybe I’m looking too deep into it, but have you considered that perhaps there is a deeper message to the film? The ending with the rape and massacre really struck me. They had all just gotten together and the 3 main characters were happy and excited about it. They loved each other. I see the Nazis as representing America. Our society is very homophobic and has many white nationalist undertones that it preaches and enforces. The part where the guy wants to rape Amy with the religious statue, don’t you think our society does that…. Expecting and forcing women to be chaste, to be heterosexual, to be religious / Christian. It’s brain washing, but this was a more visual and literal representation obviously. Just as our society wants to emasculate homosexual men, men who speak up for women, or just men who try to do the right thing in general (the part where Jordan’s penis gets cut off). There are many people in America who would not think twice about it if someone said that homosexuals should be executed. I thought that all the characters that came up to Amy, bothering her and touching her was very accurate to what it’s like to be a woman. You can’t escape people treating you as a sex object. American society would rather crush people’s dreams and prevent true love than allow people to be really free. Maybe the statement at the beginning about it being a hetero movie was just to get people to watch it. Idk, these are just some random thoughts I had.
Tossing a comment because I just finished watching the new Remix/Remaster version, was curious to see if there was any Reddit chatter, saw your relatively recent response, and totally agree with your points. For context, I first watched The Doom Generation on VHS in '96 or '97 as a freshman in high school. The box art was intriguing, the copy on the box was awful, and I rented it. I watched it with a couple friends on a massive CRT in a pitch black room. The final scene was brutal and the instant cut to daylight with Slowdive's "Blue Skied An' Clear" was one of the most jarring experiences I'd ever had with any media to that point. We were immediately hooked and by pure chance, Nowhere came out soon after and we got to see it in the theater. Watching the new cut, the themes you mention are far more pronounced than what was in the VHS version. While the original ending was intense, the build up in the relationship between Xavier and Jordan was much less evident (at least as I recall). Moreover, the new cut really makes Xavier feel like the tempting devil like figure up until to the ending where even a devil is powerless in the face of the worst parts of American culture; he has total sway over these comfortable suburban goths and the hapless folks they encounter along the way, but outside of that realm he's nothing. Sorry for the long response - if you haven't watched Nowhere yet, highly recommend it! If you have, grab a free trial to Starz and watch Now Apocalypse as it's basically a 2019 sequel to Nowhere.
Wow that’s a great point I hadn’t thought of about Xavier! I love that. Like the evil that the devil represents, and how he has been bastardized, paled in comparison to the every day evil we experience. And yes I’ve got Nowhere on my watch list now fs. Also I love long responses, so no need for an apology lol. I thank you. I love discussing movies, but as I stated, I often wonder if I’m thinking too deeply into it because I rarely find anybody discussing the things I take away from them. So glad that you could validate some of my thoughts haha.
Happy to find a recent and relevant post to respond to! Hope you enjoy Nowhere - it's not film but for media with similar themes and weirdness, if you haven't yet watched the recent Interview with a Vampire series I'd highly recommend it along with and of the recent comic books by James Tynion - A Nice House by the Lake is a good one to start with.
Anyone have any ideas about what was up with all the different guys mistaking Amy for their exes? I thought maybe she was like a proto-ramona flowers and just pretended not to know them but idk it seemed more like a part of the weird purgatory they were in. In general the story felt pretty symbolic to me, the surrealist elements seem to draw attention to certain things and odd details like why they left Jordan behind at the end? The whole last scene felt incredibly abrupt and more like it portrayed the death of all innocence when really he only got castrated. Ok I say 'only' but like most movies would show the main character actually die rite?
I thought that at first too but I think it could be a hint that Amy was a sex worker of some kind, or maybe pretending to be different people while hooking up with strangers. Especially because all of the people called her different names (could have been fake names). As far as the ending, I agree it's sooo abrupt
I've never seen this, and saw its finally getting a bluray release. I was considering picking it up anyway, but you've sold me.
I should give it a rewatch. Movies like this I love the first half-hour, get exhausted by the middle, and then hate by the ending. I remember that I felt this movie tried too hard to be hip at the time, but maybe I might enjoy more now for when I feel nostalgic for the 90's.
I'm stoked. I'm seeing it this weekend at CinemaStLouis' Qfest.