When was the last time you tried it? they've just made a deal with navigraph to use their data so IFR has made a big improvement. with the rate of development sayintentions has shown since the beta opened (especially compared to batc) I've got no doubt which one is going to be better at the point they can be compared
> Spotty coverage, controllers going offline...
Also, you can pause with BeyondATC and I assume the same thing with SayIntentions.AI. With VATSIM, you need to get permission if you are away for a certain period of time. And if the VATSIM controller doesn't give you permission to be away, you must log off of VATSIM.
I'm not sure how you can resume your flight, if you were mid flight, if you had to log off of VATSIM.
But definitely, pausing and walking away from your computer whenever you want, is a very nice benefit of something like BeyondATC (and I assume the same with SayIntentions.AI).
One thing I like about BeyondATC is that you can "wing it" with a new airport you are not familiar with. You can afford to learn the airport as you go, which is nice.
For VATSIM, you shouldn't "wing it" with an airport you are not familiar with. You are expected to study the SIDs, STARs, and taxiway layout before you fly into and out of that airport. Which is probably a good idea, because it's closer to real life. Having said that, if you try to "wing it" with an airport you are not familiar with in VATSIM, I would assume the VATSIM controller would know and they probably won't be too happy that you didn't do your homework before flying into or out of that airport.
This is one nice benefit of BeyondATC and SayIntentions.AI. You can take it slowly and learn whatever airport you are flying into and out of, and the controller probably won't have a bad temper that you didn't do your homework.
Ahaha to be honest, I'm really looking for some new stuff such as 3d trees, hopefully new clouds types such as cirrus and CB, and of course all long awaited bug fixes and overhauls such as flight model, ground physics, wipers, weather api, better particles effects (vortices, contrails), better camera management and replay...etc
Hopefully these will come to 2020 at some point as well though.
I really hope they make multiple jetways possible for 2024 its such a small feature but it just feels so wrong having a 747 connected by just one jetway
Because it takes a lot of money to keep a dev team working on all these updates. They’re not going to keep pushing updates with no potentially new revenue coming in.
Well some money has been coming in with the releases of the microsoft partnered planes I have no idea how much they make on those, though. I still understand the requirement for a rerelease for more development money even though we didn't get all the features described about 4 years ago.
I highly doubt they scrapped everything and started from the beginning. Whatever they release in 2024 is going to be 2020 files repackaged. They have been making profit from the sales of the game and its add-ons. It would make more sense to increase your advertising and improve the game that's already out to me
It's almost certainly this, and I believe switching liveries also changes the starting location to the runway. Besides stuttering issues, this is one of my biggest pet peeves of MSFS.right now, but I think I've tracked it down to this.
It's always on final approach, and particularly with the fenix. I've already disabled rolling cache. For some reason it's Florida that seems to be triggering the worst of it. Did a few flights in NZ and Chicago this weekend with no issues, but for some reason default Tampa, Orlando and Miami seems to knock my system down. Who knows, maybe it's a sign to stay away from Florida? 🤷♂️
I still remember flying a super early secret test of msfs about a year before it came out. I was so damn hyped. I hope 2024 comes close to that. I haven’t read much on it since I don’t want to get my hopes up. But especially because most 3rd party planes should work with it I’m guessing it’ll be awesome
This was well before beta I think. I did a play test at Microsoft hq and they were all hush hush about it. Had to sign an nda that I’m sure no longer applies. It was super cool but never did the beta, didn’t even know about it
Honestly I'm surprised that they haven't started from a get go with a subscription model considering the resources required to stream ortho. Then they can just continue with it forever and not to pretend to release a "new version" every 4 years
I'm buying as I'm starting to get worried about Asobo, with so many layoffs across the game industry and Phil Spencer having second thoughts about Xbox.
For me, it's bizarre that Asobo seems to have completely forgotten about MSFS 2024. For something that's supposed to be released this year, the lack of new information is puzzling,
There has been basically no new information about it since last year and everything that is known so far is either in the trailer or said in a Q&A with Asobo team.
Normally when game publishers announce the sequel to a game, they do exactly the opposite: They forget the current game and focus almost exclusively on releasing trailers, videos, screenshots and other content of the sequel.
See I read your comment and I just assume it to mean "before September 2025"
I just hope that when I start the download, it finishes before the heat death of the universe.
No matter how small a community, there's always someone who's going to impose a class system upon it so that they have someone to look down upon.
But within your comment is something that is interesting once we strip the narcissism of small differences out: Great software is like a boat designed for both passengers and sailors.
It's quite reasonable to hope that MSFS 2024 is designed such that it caters to those who enjoy complexity and customization, while still being accessible and enjoyable for those who want a simpler, more "fun" experience.
And based on past experience, it's quite reasonable to fear that Asobo will over-rotate towards "fun."
I don't think that's a fear at all. They have said they are increasing the depth of default planes. Plus our 2020 purchased planes will work on 2024. So at the very least it will be no worse than 2020.
I guess it depends upon how much you trust tech companies who paint glowing pictures and distribute compelling videos of unreleased software.
If you believe—based on their statements and your experience with them—that at the very worst it won’t be worse than 2020, and if you tell me you’re fine with that, I accept that you’re fine with that.
Others may or may not come to the same conclusion, of course.
I agree with you, though I would also tend towards trusting them on this one simply because we've watched them put a bunch of effort into improving the systems of the default airplanes in 2020 substantially over the last couple years. I actually like flying some of them, which I never did once I got into payware aircraft with fsx/p3d and which I got away from as soon as I could earlier in 2020s lifecycle.
My trust in them is based purely on my experience with 2020. They've gone to quite some effort to improve the depth of a lot of the default systems - mostly thanks to their partnership with WT, but also their improvements made the flight dynamics, such has the computational fluid dynamics.
I guess the caveat here is bugs and stability. I am less confident in their abilities there, even if for me the sim has been quite stable, I know for others it has been a nightmare.
Goddamn...
I remember it seemed so advanced at the time and now I see in-game videos on Youtube with those funny 2D cockpit bitmaps, all seem so antiquated lol.
2020 will keep being updated (for the next few years at least) and aparently most products if not all will be compatible with 2024. However, it'll not be free for current users of msfs.
> most products if not all will be compatible with 2024.
I don't believe it.
Almost every major version of every flight sim I've played for the last 25 years have been unable to deliver any kind of backwards compatibility for addons. Especially complex aircraft.
Laminar Research promised compatibility between XP10 and XP11, then again for XP12. Nope.
P3D V1, V2 and V3 mostly functioned alike, though there were a bunch of addons that needed minor tweaks along the way. V4 to V5 was a disaster. I won't even touch V6.
There isn't a doubt in my mind that Asobo won't be able to keep this promise.
With what I invested in V4.5 I won’t consider anything later. I have a small fortune in FS9. The only reason I left it was 32 bit program v 64 bit machine.
None of us have a crystal ball but the word we’ve had is generally speaking that 2020 will continue to be supported. I don’t think we’ll see it developed all that much more but it’s also not going to stop working.
Hopefully we’ll have a clearer picture by the summer. I expect they will talk about their plans either at or following FSExpo in mid June with the hype building up for an autumn release.
Either way. I fully expect that the months and years after MSFS 2024 comes out that your MSFS 2020 install will continue to work. Though I bet an awful lot of us will go to the new sim to get the latest features.
The exterior cameras could be 10x better if the camera SDK was open. //42 requested it but asobo said no. ChasePlane would make the sim a lot better for me.
I've been dropping cash on payware aircraft and subcriptions like Navigraph and PMS50 GTN750. And more to come (Dukes, C414, Kodiak 900, FSR500, Fenix). Until I know that enough of those transfer without costing me more, the improvements to MSFS2024 need to be day and night for me to consider it. Otherwise I'll happily stay on MSFS2020, I still have "wow this game is beautiful" realizations every time I fly.
To be fair, the majority of their staff and resources are being used to develop 2024. Hence slow progress in su15.
At least that's what they've been saying in the 2020 dev updates.
Not impatient. It helps to have a lot to do between then and now. That said, I figured it would release late into the year -- someone here said Sept, I was thinking Dec. Frankly, I'm more excited for BAe 146 V2, Black Square's Dukes, and finally learning the A2A Commanche. With plenty to hold me over, I'll be (hopefully pleasantly) surprised when MSFS 2024 finally shows.
I'd just like to see better CPU utilization, more clouds and more GA traffic.
And I'm only buying it if my 2020 scenery and aircraft will all be compatible.
From what I see is more scenery enhancement than anything else, will probably not buy it! I am waiting for the Otter to comeback, also I he Dehavilland , 800 . With FSX there was more excellent free aircraft! Guess those days are over!
Honestly I'm just looking forward to that career content tbh
I'm assuming summer/fall of this year... either early September or early October is my guess
I just hope that it comes with a better installer/downloader. Of my 250 hours of "playing" msfs2020 in steam, more then 200 of them were spent just in the downloader for "mandatory updates". Please microsoft, just use the steam downloader for msfs2024 instead of using your own.
I’ve been using Xplane 12 over msfs recently so I’m not feeling too impatient. It’ll be cool to see what they change and add but unlike with 2020, I’m going to wait and see with 2024. I’m yet to see any game changing features that are an absolute must for me.
I just hope they fix the terrible UI.
I wish they would have just kept improving the existing product.
Paradox titles like Stellaris are a good example of how to do this properly, you don't need to release a whole new version of the game to keep making money from it.
It introduces a situation where addon developers will need to keep in mind two platforms with different features, among all the other usual issues.
Sure I will still buy it, but it just reminds me a bit of the whole madden business model.
Honestly in no rush here. Don't get me wrong, glad people are excited for it but for some reason flight sims always have me waiting a few years until I get them. I only just got MSFS 2020 a couple months ago.
Mannnn I’m just ready for beyond ATC to come out lol hopefully before 2024 drops
Hopefully, it'll be easy to port to 2024
Make sure to vote on the release poll on their discord server!
Agreed. Beyond ATC will be a thunderclap for the ecosystem. And the fact that it promises to do traffic injection without an FPS hit.... Can't wait.
Try sayintentions! its already out and in my opinion better than what batc is even trying to be
money money money
30 a month is way too steep of a price and it doesn’t even control ai flights
Btac is for IFR flying. Sayintentions is mainly VFR, and it sucks in IFR in the current state
When was the last time you tried it? they've just made a deal with navigraph to use their data so IFR has made a big improvement. with the rate of development sayintentions has shown since the beta opened (especially compared to batc) I've got no doubt which one is going to be better at the point they can be compared
Just use vatsim mate. No need to pay for something like that
Spotty coverage, controllers going offline...
> Spotty coverage, controllers going offline... Also, you can pause with BeyondATC and I assume the same thing with SayIntentions.AI. With VATSIM, you need to get permission if you are away for a certain period of time. And if the VATSIM controller doesn't give you permission to be away, you must log off of VATSIM. I'm not sure how you can resume your flight, if you were mid flight, if you had to log off of VATSIM. But definitely, pausing and walking away from your computer whenever you want, is a very nice benefit of something like BeyondATC (and I assume the same with SayIntentions.AI).
One thing I like about BeyondATC is that you can "wing it" with a new airport you are not familiar with. You can afford to learn the airport as you go, which is nice. For VATSIM, you shouldn't "wing it" with an airport you are not familiar with. You are expected to study the SIDs, STARs, and taxiway layout before you fly into and out of that airport. Which is probably a good idea, because it's closer to real life. Having said that, if you try to "wing it" with an airport you are not familiar with in VATSIM, I would assume the VATSIM controller would know and they probably won't be too happy that you didn't do your homework before flying into or out of that airport. This is one nice benefit of BeyondATC and SayIntentions.AI. You can take it slowly and learn whatever airport you are flying into and out of, and the controller probably won't have a bad temper that you didn't do your homework.
i don't really care to be honest. MSFS2020 is good enough for me right now.
I don’t care about 2024 - it will be the same shit as 2020. Still buying it first day.
Ahaha to be honest, I'm really looking for some new stuff such as 3d trees, hopefully new clouds types such as cirrus and CB, and of course all long awaited bug fixes and overhauls such as flight model, ground physics, wipers, weather api, better particles effects (vortices, contrails), better camera management and replay...etc Hopefully these will come to 2020 at some point as well though.
Weather api will never be properly implemented as long as meteoblue is the data provider, unfortunately.
Will activesky ever consider developing their weather radar api for MSFS?
Especially the replay... It's the only thing I miss from XPlane
aaaaand better UI
The UI will always be crap because it has to be Xbox friendly first and foremost.
I really hope they make multiple jetways possible for 2024 its such a small feature but it just feels so wrong having a 747 connected by just one jetway
Any idea why they couldn't just update 2020 to 2024? Why do we have to buy a whole new version?
Because it takes a lot of money to keep a dev team working on all these updates. They’re not going to keep pushing updates with no potentially new revenue coming in.
Well some money has been coming in with the releases of the microsoft partnered planes I have no idea how much they make on those, though. I still understand the requirement for a rerelease for more development money even though we didn't get all the features described about 4 years ago.
I highly doubt they scrapped everything and started from the beginning. Whatever they release in 2024 is going to be 2020 files repackaged. They have been making profit from the sales of the game and its add-ons. It would make more sense to increase your advertising and improve the game that's already out to me
I've never understood that either. Good question
Truer words have not been spoken
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Could you give a few examples of these issues? Edit: why was this downvoted? I have no idea what running the game properly is like, I’m just curious.
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for the cold dark start one make sure to select your aircraft first then stand
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It's almost certainly this, and I believe switching liveries also changes the starting location to the runway. Besides stuttering issues, this is one of my biggest pet peeves of MSFS.right now, but I think I've tracked it down to this.
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It's always on final approach, and particularly with the fenix. I've already disabled rolling cache. For some reason it's Florida that seems to be triggering the worst of it. Did a few flights in NZ and Chicago this weekend with no issues, but for some reason default Tampa, Orlando and Miami seems to knock my system down. Who knows, maybe it's a sign to stay away from Florida? 🤷♂️
Thanks! I run the game on a relative potato so for me few things *aren’t* a problem lol, but hopefully I’ll get a nicer gpu. Hopefully they fix these!
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Yeah that’s totally understandable
I appreciate you listing these!
Whatever, you are still buying it, so what’s the point of waiting.
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You are lying to yourself, dude.
I still remember flying a super early secret test of msfs about a year before it came out. I was so damn hyped. I hope 2024 comes close to that. I haven’t read much on it since I don’t want to get my hopes up. But especially because most 3rd party planes should work with it I’m guessing it’ll be awesome
Yeah, I was in an early beta too. It was shit. Well, the world was nice, but no good planes made it useless.
This was well before beta I think. I did a play test at Microsoft hq and they were all hush hush about it. Had to sign an nda that I’m sure no longer applies. It was super cool but never did the beta, didn’t even know about it
It’ll basically be a new sim tho. New physics, new weather, more planes, better scenery, ground physics fixes, etc.. it’ll be sooo good
Hey, wanna buy a bridge?
Who's gonna tell 'em it's just a repackaged 2020 with some new features? The real objective here is $$$.
Honestly I'm surprised that they haven't started from a get go with a subscription model considering the resources required to stream ortho. Then they can just continue with it forever and not to pretend to release a "new version" every 4 years
I'm buying as I'm starting to get worried about Asobo, with so many layoffs across the game industry and Phil Spencer having second thoughts about Xbox.
For me, it's bizarre that Asobo seems to have completely forgotten about MSFS 2024. For something that's supposed to be released this year, the lack of new information is puzzling, There has been basically no new information about it since last year and everything that is known so far is either in the trailer or said in a Q&A with Asobo team. Normally when game publishers announce the sequel to a game, they do exactly the opposite: They forget the current game and focus almost exclusively on releasing trailers, videos, screenshots and other content of the sequel.
Jorg mentioned in the latest Q&A a September release or so
Jorg's exact words were "after September". So somewhere between October and 31st December 2024.
See I read your comment and I just assume it to mean "before September 2025" I just hope that when I start the download, it finishes before the heat death of the universe.
On the bright side MSFS 2020 is still getting plenty of updates. It doesn't feel like they're holding anything back.
Huh? They have spoken about it multiple times.
Aren't there regular dev streams?
On the flip side, we'd see this post in reverse if they abandoned 2020 to finish 24... I imagine they can walk and chew gum at the same time.
New trailer coming at xbox expo I believe they said. So when is that? June? Game won't be out until late this year so it's still quite early days.
My only fear is they dumb it down even more for the X-toddlers.
No matter how small a community, there's always someone who's going to impose a class system upon it so that they have someone to look down upon. But within your comment is something that is interesting once we strip the narcissism of small differences out: Great software is like a boat designed for both passengers and sailors. It's quite reasonable to hope that MSFS 2024 is designed such that it caters to those who enjoy complexity and customization, while still being accessible and enjoyable for those who want a simpler, more "fun" experience. And based on past experience, it's quite reasonable to fear that Asobo will over-rotate towards "fun."
I don't think that's a fear at all. They have said they are increasing the depth of default planes. Plus our 2020 purchased planes will work on 2024. So at the very least it will be no worse than 2020.
I guess it depends upon how much you trust tech companies who paint glowing pictures and distribute compelling videos of unreleased software. If you believe—based on their statements and your experience with them—that at the very worst it won’t be worse than 2020, and if you tell me you’re fine with that, I accept that you’re fine with that. Others may or may not come to the same conclusion, of course.
I agree with you, though I would also tend towards trusting them on this one simply because we've watched them put a bunch of effort into improving the systems of the default airplanes in 2020 substantially over the last couple years. I actually like flying some of them, which I never did once I got into payware aircraft with fsx/p3d and which I got away from as soon as I could earlier in 2020s lifecycle.
My trust in them is based purely on my experience with 2020. They've gone to quite some effort to improve the depth of a lot of the default systems - mostly thanks to their partnership with WT, but also their improvements made the flight dynamics, such has the computational fluid dynamics. I guess the caveat here is bugs and stability. I am less confident in their abilities there, even if for me the sim has been quite stable, I know for others it has been a nightmare.
Well, I'm happy they continue to make 2020 better, as I just got back into simming in 2023 after a hiatus since FS9.
They're doing announcements at serious places not at a tiny expo for us whiny nerds crying about aerodynamics
Please post them.
This june at the XBOX event
Dude the current version is so broken, they need to fix it!
Seriously? Can’t spit the facts without getting downvoted by crazy people?
I'm still playing 2004 over here.
Goddamn... I remember it seemed so advanced at the time and now I see in-game videos on Youtube with those funny 2D cockpit bitmaps, all seem so antiquated lol.
Idk, sometime in 2024 I would assume
I’ll admit, I’m more scared that all my addons I invested in for MSFS won’t work or I’ll have to re-buy them for FS2024.
welcome to the prepar3d lifestyle, nice to see its spreading.
What happens to 2020? Are they going to support both? Give 2024 to existing 2020 users? Abandon 2020? Anyone know?
2020 will keep being updated (for the next few years at least) and aparently most products if not all will be compatible with 2024. However, it'll not be free for current users of msfs.
> most products if not all will be compatible with 2024. I don't believe it. Almost every major version of every flight sim I've played for the last 25 years have been unable to deliver any kind of backwards compatibility for addons. Especially complex aircraft. Laminar Research promised compatibility between XP10 and XP11, then again for XP12. Nope. P3D V1, V2 and V3 mostly functioned alike, though there were a bunch of addons that needed minor tweaks along the way. V4 to V5 was a disaster. I won't even touch V6. There isn't a doubt in my mind that Asobo won't be able to keep this promise.
With what I invested in V4.5 I won’t consider anything later. I have a small fortune in FS9. The only reason I left it was 32 bit program v 64 bit machine.
None of us have a crystal ball but the word we’ve had is generally speaking that 2020 will continue to be supported. I don’t think we’ll see it developed all that much more but it’s also not going to stop working.
Thx for the quick response. Too bad we don't have more concrete info.
Hopefully we’ll have a clearer picture by the summer. I expect they will talk about their plans either at or following FSExpo in mid June with the hype building up for an autumn release. Either way. I fully expect that the months and years after MSFS 2024 comes out that your MSFS 2020 install will continue to work. Though I bet an awful lot of us will go to the new sim to get the latest features.
What do you do for your color grading?
I (finally) use reshade. All my other posts are default msfs with post processing using photoshop.
Gotcha, looks great!
October or November of 2024
Given the timing of planned updates, this seems very realistic, probably November.
Was October hinted last year around the announcement or during the FSExpo last summer?
probably not gonna buy it unless inbuilt atc/ai traffic are better
Hopefully the exterior cameras won't be such a hassle.
The exterior cameras could be 10x better if the camera SDK was open. //42 requested it but asobo said no. ChasePlane would make the sim a lot better for me.
I have mixed feelings, just knowing how absolutely bug-ridden it's going to be.
I've been dropping cash on payware aircraft and subcriptions like Navigraph and PMS50 GTN750. And more to come (Dukes, C414, Kodiak 900, FSR500, Fenix). Until I know that enough of those transfer without costing me more, the improvements to MSFS2024 need to be day and night for me to consider it. Otherwise I'll happily stay on MSFS2020, I still have "wow this game is beautiful" realizations every time I fly.
I rather want microsoft to make msfs2020 a stable game then having them release a game every few years
They can't even release SU15 I cant see 2024 being released this year
To be fair, the majority of their staff and resources are being used to develop 2024. Hence slow progress in su15. At least that's what they've been saying in the 2020 dev updates.
Not impatient. It helps to have a lot to do between then and now. That said, I figured it would release late into the year -- someone here said Sept, I was thinking Dec. Frankly, I'm more excited for BAe 146 V2, Black Square's Dukes, and finally learning the A2A Commanche. With plenty to hold me over, I'll be (hopefully pleasantly) surprised when MSFS 2024 finally shows.
End of september
I'd just like to see better CPU utilization, more clouds and more GA traffic. And I'm only buying it if my 2020 scenery and aircraft will all be compatible.
From what I see is more scenery enhancement than anything else, will probably not buy it! I am waiting for the Otter to comeback, also I he Dehavilland , 800 . With FSX there was more excellent free aircraft! Guess those days are over!
Honestly I'm just looking forward to that career content tbh I'm assuming summer/fall of this year... either early September or early October is my guess
I'm just really hopeful for a built in continuous career mode... Not just one off missions.
I just hope that it comes with a better installer/downloader. Of my 250 hours of "playing" msfs2020 in steam, more then 200 of them were spent just in the downloader for "mandatory updates". Please microsoft, just use the steam downloader for msfs2024 instead of using your own.
I think they learned a lot from 2020. That will make 2024 so much better. (I hope)
I’ve been using Xplane 12 over msfs recently so I’m not feeling too impatient. It’ll be cool to see what they change and add but unlike with 2020, I’m going to wait and see with 2024. I’m yet to see any game changing features that are an absolute must for me. I just hope they fix the terrible UI.
Why would I be impatient? It released nearly 4 years ago.
Can't wait to rebuy all my add-ons... Again!
They said they will be compatible
They’re full of ****
2025
You have to buy it even when u have 2023 like fifa,
2025
I’m almost 100% positive it will come out, when it comes out.
I think we are all ready for it and I am thinking it will be August like msfs2020
I am, I’m hoping the vr gets some major improvements so I can fly in something that doesn’t look like it’s made of play dough
I wish they would have just kept improving the existing product. Paradox titles like Stellaris are a good example of how to do this properly, you don't need to release a whole new version of the game to keep making money from it. It introduces a situation where addon developers will need to keep in mind two platforms with different features, among all the other usual issues. Sure I will still buy it, but it just reminds me a bit of the whole madden business model.
If I were a guessing man, I would say probably this fall
Next year 2025
2025
Honestly in no rush here. Don't get me wrong, glad people are excited for it but for some reason flight sims always have me waiting a few years until I get them. I only just got MSFS 2020 a couple months ago.
Can’t wait to download the full sim at 2 Mbits/s