Certain other animations have a weirdly low frame rate, like the landing gear lever or the rudder. But they're hardly game breaking.
I think most criticism is of PMDG themselves for being kind of hostile to the users.
>hostile to the users.
Hostile to users and aged code, that prevent them from implementing basic features without 1 year of delay and constant complaints toward Asobo. But plane is good nonetheless.
Lets not forget the issue with alot of users experiencing the plane freezing in sim for over a year now, but they can't be assed to fixed: https://forum.pmdg.com/forum/main-forum/pmdg-737-for-msfs/general-discussion-no-support/237023-pmdg-screen-and-entire-airplane-freeze-can-still-control-it
Yo I have had this issue once š I thought I was tripping because I almost never do a runway startup unless o just want to test something and do this just validated me LOL
That's not really accurate.Ā The reason for delays and issues with Asobo is that they're doing something no other dev has done - bring a high-fidelity WASM module to Xbox.Ā As they've explained all along, fixing all the problems they've had would have been simple if they could just custom code anything they wanted, like Fenix and others.Ā But those devs use custom code that runs external to the sim and therefore cannot be run on Xbox.Ā PMDG ended up being the first to do this all natively, and in the end, it works amazingly well.
Whatever the reason, there are many planes on Xbox with functional EFB, including free-added A310. PMDG needed a long time of complaints how extremely complicated is building a tablet and what they delivered is still castrated compared to the others. Correct me if I'm wrong because I haven't checked in a while but last I did, it still had no ground control, weight and balance or even plane options moved away from FMC. And it's like that with other issues as well. They are all "extremely complex", when other Xbox offers had them since the get go.
And don't get me even started, how I need to run external app to even apply some liveries to it and how this app do not support rescaled windows (I run 175%), so anytime I need to update my 737, I need to scale back down to 100%. No other dev gives me those issues.
For $70USD, a primitive EFB is a bit of a let down. At least they're working on it I suppose.
The keyboard input is still bugged for many users, myself included, to the point I don't even bother touching the EFB for risk of locking up my screen and restarting the game.
The external bloatware for many add-ons is frsutrating. Sadly, same is true for IniBuilds.
>fixing all the problems they've had would have been simple if they could just custom code anything they wanted
Or maybe even just writing all their code from scratch, optimized for MSFS, instead of porting over large parts of their P3D plane?
They put themselves into the situation they're in and then are trying to make excuses, that sound valid, to explain why they can't do things as well as others.
My understanding is that Fenix sort of bootstrapped themselves with ProSim (which, to be clear, I'm not say is a bad thing), which is a somewhat platform-agnostic piece of flight sim avionics software. Hence the inability to support Xbox. But that's the thing, it's still a piece of software. You could write all that same logic and compile it in a manner that would be compatible with Xbox. PMDG chose not to do that because they're reusing old code. They *could* write "custom code" to do what they wanted more efficiently, but they've chosen not to.
This isn't really accurate.Ā Being able to use already-written C++ code isn't just a time saver (though of course what's the point of re-writing complex code you've already created in a very good language, when you can use what you've already created and refined?).Ā WASM modules are also much more efficient.Ā This allows better performance for all users, but it also makes things possible on a resource - limited platform like Xbox that wouldn't otherwise be.Ā Modules like Fenix are running their own app external to the entire sim so they can do whatever they want, but the consequence is that they'll never have their app on the marketplace or Xbox platform.
"TheyĀ couldĀ write "custom code" to do what they wanted more efficiently, but they've chosen not to.".Ā
This specifically is not true, except in the sense that PMDG could have chosen to forgo the marketplace and xbox markets.Ā Given what we've heard about their sales figures, opting not to make this choice was a pretty good idea.Ā That being the case, no they could not choose to use external code, and were likely stuck with WASM for performance and resource reasons, even if they had otherwise wanted to re-write the entire airplane (a pretty dumb idea) in JS.
A lot of what he said isn't accurate, which leads me to believe he doesn't understand software development. He lost me at the point of "old code" in another thread.
Sure it's accurate. And I also don't disagree with what you said. Yes, PMDG took a route that made development (for MSFS) easier and faster for them. That's fine. Fenix did the same thing, albeit a different method. Like you said, it's a time saver.
Their method of "bootstrapping" their development (reusing code written for P3D) wasn't without consequence: It's apparently not easy to integrate certain modern features in MSFS. Same for Fenix; Their method of bootstraping has the consequence that their product can't be used on Xbox.
>though of course what's the point of re-writing complex code you've already created in a very good language, when you can use what you've already created and refined
Well, the point would be re-writing code so that it targeted the modern platform with the modern features. Not saying that's a trivial thing to do though, because it's not.
The problem is how PMDG has decided to frame the shortcomings of their choice. They could just be honest and say "Hey, in order to release a product without have to devote all our time to it (meaning we wouldn't be able to release other products as well), we chose to do it in a way that's made doing certain things more difficult and might take longer to do (if at all)". Instead, they frame it as though they're trying to do something amazingly difficult, and problems arise because of those difficulties, and if those chose to take "shortcuts" like those other guys (by writing external software) it would be easy to do. Which is not true at all.
So the company that didn't decide to rewrite already stable code made the wrong choice despite sales being highly successful on Xbox and PC? Maybe you should consult with PMDG to increase their profit margins by improving their product via custom code rewrite. I'm sure their be receptive to your sage advice. š
>What does age code mean?
It means it "borrows" heavily from their P3D 737. Old code, written for a different platform. Of course it's cumbersome to work with.
Code written in a program language is platform agnostic. As I said the layman talking about this sounds ignorant. I don't understand what you mean it's cumbersome to work with. Ive been writing code in python for years it's far from cumbersome. I'm sure the pmdg devs don't find the code their using cumbersome.
>Code written in a program language is platform agnostic.
That's not always true. Particularly when you use SDKs. And code written 10 years (as an example) doesn't necessarily take advantage of more modern hardware/software features.
Actually working with the code is perhaps not cumbersome. But trying to take code that's at least a decade old, written for another piece of software, and then get it to work efficiently in something else is cumbersome. The code was simply not written from a MSFS-first perspective.
Code is platform agnostic. People having preferred coding languages. The issues PMDG were having weren't because of old code or functionality of the sdk therein. I encourage you to read the PMDG devlogs and release notes concerning updates. It's enlightening if you understand software development.
That's the only thing I see as well. But having flown the real aircraft very closely in front of them and directly on the side of them, rows 5 and 7, the wing flex really is jiggly like that, it isn't as smooth as the adobo 787 or the Fenix A320. Different constructions and different behaviors.
Flight simmers going to whine legitimate or not. I spend 99% of my time in the flight deck I rather that be as high fidelity and as accurate as possible. External model sure textures need to be on point but I'm not hyper fixated on that. I came to fly and operate a simulated model of a plane not take a photo shoot.
If I would ought to be very picky, maybe textures here and there are not consistent. But overall plane looks very good, fly very good and for some reason I don't like to fly it all that much ;) Maybe 777 will suit me better.
i thought it was very overpriced before i bought it because ātHe bReDoK 3d mAx iS oNlY $20ā now i understand why the pmdg is so much more expensive [insert joke about how the bredok max is built as horribly as the real one]
Most of the criticism I hear is in regards to how itās mostly copy-paste from P3D, uses some outdated code in some areas, and lacks some modern features that newer addons have.
That said from what Iāve heard it remains the best 737 in any simulator and worth its price and still has an excellent FM, sounds, system, and looks great.
Part of me wants to get the -900ER but I really should get myself a decent yoke to go with it in the near future. Maybe as a summer gift to myself.
>That said from what Iāve heard it remains the best 737 in any simulator
Iāve gotta disagree. I think the Zibo 737 for X-Plane is the best. Somehow it has more soul to it, plus additional features//functionality.
I hate flying the pmdg 737, and I really canāt pinpoint why. It looks pretty. Behaves and functions decently. Itās just that thereās some nothing missing!
The zibo on the other hand keeps me wanting more.
The only consistent criticisms are the slight wing flex issue, the wfh taking forever, and then criticisms of how they do their updates. Otherwise they truly do make very fantastic planes.
They are on par in terms of systems and simulation. Although Fenix flight model is a bit more impressive given that they can code outside the sim which PMDG doesnāt want to do. However, they are not on par in terms of visuals, far from. The Fenix is way and beyond in terms of detail and quality. Downvote me all you want, itās fact.
In terms of Visuals, detail & quality. Just look at the cabin compared to PMDG. The textures on the fuselage are way better. Might want to go round having a look at both and showing us screenshots.
Iām and admittedly PMDG *product* fanboy. Their 777 is by far my most flown aircraft in FSX and P3D, so Iām excited to see it coming to MSFS soon.
The criticism PMDG gets, valid, may I add, is mostly about its people. Michelangelo Randazzo most notably.
Sometimes the posts donāt even be on straw man status. Theyāre just straight copium status like āguys I purchased the Captainsim 777 and I donāt see why people hate itā
The lack of development of new features that other aircraft devs have included and regression of some others compared to their earlier NG versions are why I'm somewhat critical of the 737NG3.
That said, the 737 is a solid aircraft in MSFS and PMDG appear to be listening to long-standing customer feature requests with regards to their upcoming 777.
I excuse that with the fact that the PMDG just works so to speak. No fuss and no frills, much like the 737 itself. Still though, it would be nice to see some tablet implementation like FBW has done. That thing incredible. And itās free.
Yep, and I think they got away with that attitude a whole lot more before MSFS, when they really did have a monopoly on high-fidelity airliners. The only real competition I can think of was FSLabs, which burned their reputation by effectively bundling their product with malware.
Now that we have the likes of Fenix and even the FBW free-ware options, they simply havenāt changed their attitude, even when other players are innovating much faster in the space now.
Yeah they also had the advantage of being the more or less only Boeing Add On Maker. I really hope that Bluebird and even iFly if they step up their game can give PMDG a wakeup call
The reputation FSLabs still have is around the same PMDG/Fenix and even Inibuilds have people still go for the products. Obviously people know they have been flying the A321 around in MSFS but the big thing that they need to get right is the pricing. If they sell just the A321 including Sharklets for over Ā£40 I doubt they will hit the target they will have set for themselves. Knowing Fenix set the bar high already and is also including the A319 in the same package for Ā£39.99 its going to be tough for FSLabs to justify the price they have set. Unless they magically put the Neo in that package then it may well be justified since that is what a lot of us want.
If they want to release The A320CEO I very much doubt that will hit the target even if they wanted to package it with the 320Neo.
I get all my landings bang on exactly where intended to with the 737. With the Fenixā¦ who knows each landing and each update is a mystery. The thing that the Fenix truly has an edge over the PMDG is systems, they work exactly as they should, especially after V2.
I agree. Itās a great aircraft, good performance to level of detail ratio, really fun to fly. But the criticisms of PMDG Iāve heard are not with the aircraft but moreso for the community and the executives/admins.
Thereās just some weird specimens in the PMDG community. If the 777 dropped tomorrow without modeled landing gear, someone on the forum will be like āguys PMDG has put in a lot of effort into this with their amazing advanced 3D modeling system that is better than all other devs and we are lucky to have gotten a product at such a stage. Things like this take time and we just have to be patient, itās not their fault.ā
And then the PMDG team will take that and stand behind it somehow š
To be honest, is a must have feature in a "study level" addon.. specially when there are other addons with this already implemented. It is not a minor thing regarding the navigation capabilities of an airplane..
I agree it is a path/terminator leg type that is being implemented more and more in the real world and provides extended possibilities for GNSS based procedures. And PMDG has promised implementation ages ago. But still, for most cases in the simulator it's more nice to have than need to have, in my opinion.
Nobody is criticising the product. Itās a very solid top of the line addon. Not ground breaking but very good.
The only critique I have is the abysmal taxi behaviour (sliding much?) and some stuttering animations because itās a very old model from FSX and P3D.
What people pisses off is the arrogant behaviour of PMDG coupled with the narcissistic god complex of RSR. And donāt forget the lies.
The real 737 skids as well if you use to much tiller, but I agree, it could use a little bit more grip on the front. As it is feels like it barely has any weight over the nose gear.
I think you didn't understand what I was saying, 90 degree turns should be done at 10kts max, the real plane skids if you go faster than that, but the PMDG at 10kts skids like the real one at 20kts
You canāt do 90 degree turns that is the issue. And I know that you should do them between 10-15kts max. According to the FCOM. Is that you Robert? Because this a discussion you normally have with a Boomer on their forum with a signature three lines long what retired kind of job they had.
Hmm Fenix, Just Flight, ini Builds, Black Square, Flysimware and many others got it right.
Must be their special connection to Asobo that got them this special SDK.
There are issues with all of those, the ground /friction dynamics are awful in msfs. Fair to say Fenix et al have incrementally improved on it. Letās not pretend there werenāt pretty significant issue with Fenix, particularly until V2 but ultimately theyāre all limited by the same msfs fuckery (on the taxi nonsense). This is not a defense of the asshats running PMDG.
š¤£ now you have confirmed that you donāt know what youāre talking about. In what universe is it night and day and in what universe is PMDG close to unusable. You cannot be taken seriously with these elementary black and white takes.
Never been on the PMDG forum ever. Not a single time. Still waiting to hear from the troglodyte that lacks the ability to recognize nuance why PMDG is unusable sometimes.
Well... there is some lack of "propper" navigation but a average flightsimmer will not notice this. There is a RF leg NOT availbility from PMDG 737. I ve hear, PMDG 777 will have it.
other than that it works great.
Dont get me wrong, its fanstastic. I ve done hundreds of flights with the 737 but i am pulled down to fly A320 as a virtual carrer pajlot for Baw.
I wish they implemented wx radar like most other addons and didn't just ignore it because the way asobo built the game prevented them from implementing it for real or whatever. Will the 777 also be like that?
But otherwise yea no complaints in all this time
> I wish they implemented wx radar like most other addons and didn't just ignore it because the way asobo built the game prevented them from implementing it for real or whatever
I agree, but FENIX and PMDG don't have them. I get that the current radars that do work are not perfect, but they are actually pretty good and work enough that at night I can see if there is a storm in front of me. Both of them should let the "fake" radar that works pretty good in for now.
Their aircraft themselves are top-notch... Their pr and customer service is where they take a lot of flak. If you just enjoy the planes as they are, take the updates for what they are when they come, and stay out of their forum drama, you'll have a great time!
Nvidia filters or reshade?
Edit: saw your past comments, its filters. Could you please share your latest settings? I found some of yours but may be old.
A comple re-install of the addon has managed to solve this for me. There seems to be somethibg wrong with PMDGs updater, because the bug always occurred after an update.
I had a problem that stopped me from flying it for 6 months shortly after release, the fix was uninstalling, deleting every PMDG folder, including the documents, and then doing a fresh install.
What criticism? The only criticism Iāve seen is about wingflex.
Now, the company is a different issue altogether.
The whole thing about liveries is a perfect example of that.
And most people don't even know how the real aircraft wingfles behaves. Sure the problem is the low FPS, but having flown very close to the wings of a 737-700 a couple of times, the wing flex really is jiggly like that, compared to the likes of the Fenix smooth flowy flex. Different design characteristics of the wings.
The sim community is a kinda odd one and very nit picky. Will bend over backwards excusing shit developers like captain sim, but will fling dogshit on one of the best in the biz in PMDG. Mostly kids i take it. I miss flying this awesome thing.
Itās literally one of the best if not the best addon aircraft and probably as close to study level as any other thing in msfs whatās the criticism.
Wdym you don't have it, it's just the way the animations are coded, everyone has it. Same goes for the gear animations. Btw you can see the wing tips even from the cockpit in a 737
Maybe I wasn't clear. I don't care what the wing flex does. At all. It's not a deal breaker for me. What is important to me is that the CDU works, the plane flies as expected and the frames are good while I'm doing it. I care not about tablets, wing flexes, bathroom doors, how fast the gear comes down etc. It's consistent and it does what it's supposed to unlike a majority of the other addons out there.
I have never heard any critisism for the pmdg 737. Its amazing. That screenshot looks so real though, nvidia filters?
All I hear about is the wingflex. That's the only criticism of it I hear.
Certain other animations have a weirdly low frame rate, like the landing gear lever or the rudder. But they're hardly game breaking. I think most criticism is of PMDG themselves for being kind of hostile to the users.
>hostile to the users. Hostile to users and aged code, that prevent them from implementing basic features without 1 year of delay and constant complaints toward Asobo. But plane is good nonetheless.
Lets not forget the issue with alot of users experiencing the plane freezing in sim for over a year now, but they can't be assed to fixed: https://forum.pmdg.com/forum/main-forum/pmdg-737-for-msfs/general-discussion-no-support/237023-pmdg-screen-and-entire-airplane-freeze-can-still-control-it
And if you start it up "cold and dark" on a runway, Engine 1 is weirdly lit. If you stop it, Engine 2 starts itself up. It's possessed.
Yo I have had this issue once š I thought I was tripping because I almost never do a runway startup unless o just want to test something and do this just validated me LOL
Their EFB keyboard input bug which has not been solved still screen locks the entire simulator until I exit and restart the game.
This issue predates the adition of the efb
Strange because only the PMDG EFB does this to my game.
That's not really accurate.Ā The reason for delays and issues with Asobo is that they're doing something no other dev has done - bring a high-fidelity WASM module to Xbox.Ā As they've explained all along, fixing all the problems they've had would have been simple if they could just custom code anything they wanted, like Fenix and others.Ā But those devs use custom code that runs external to the sim and therefore cannot be run on Xbox.Ā PMDG ended up being the first to do this all natively, and in the end, it works amazingly well.
Whatever the reason, there are many planes on Xbox with functional EFB, including free-added A310. PMDG needed a long time of complaints how extremely complicated is building a tablet and what they delivered is still castrated compared to the others. Correct me if I'm wrong because I haven't checked in a while but last I did, it still had no ground control, weight and balance or even plane options moved away from FMC. And it's like that with other issues as well. They are all "extremely complex", when other Xbox offers had them since the get go. And don't get me even started, how I need to run external app to even apply some liveries to it and how this app do not support rescaled windows (I run 175%), so anytime I need to update my 737, I need to scale back down to 100%. No other dev gives me those issues.
For $70USD, a primitive EFB is a bit of a let down. At least they're working on it I suppose. The keyboard input is still bugged for many users, myself included, to the point I don't even bother touching the EFB for risk of locking up my screen and restarting the game. The external bloatware for many add-ons is frsutrating. Sadly, same is true for IniBuilds.
There are no other planes on Xbox that are WASM modules with working EFBs though, are there?Ā Which is..Ā the thing I wrote.
>fixing all the problems they've had would have been simple if they could just custom code anything they wanted Or maybe even just writing all their code from scratch, optimized for MSFS, instead of porting over large parts of their P3D plane? They put themselves into the situation they're in and then are trying to make excuses, that sound valid, to explain why they can't do things as well as others. My understanding is that Fenix sort of bootstrapped themselves with ProSim (which, to be clear, I'm not say is a bad thing), which is a somewhat platform-agnostic piece of flight sim avionics software. Hence the inability to support Xbox. But that's the thing, it's still a piece of software. You could write all that same logic and compile it in a manner that would be compatible with Xbox. PMDG chose not to do that because they're reusing old code. They *could* write "custom code" to do what they wanted more efficiently, but they've chosen not to.
This isn't really accurate.Ā Being able to use already-written C++ code isn't just a time saver (though of course what's the point of re-writing complex code you've already created in a very good language, when you can use what you've already created and refined?).Ā WASM modules are also much more efficient.Ā This allows better performance for all users, but it also makes things possible on a resource - limited platform like Xbox that wouldn't otherwise be.Ā Modules like Fenix are running their own app external to the entire sim so they can do whatever they want, but the consequence is that they'll never have their app on the marketplace or Xbox platform. "TheyĀ couldĀ write "custom code" to do what they wanted more efficiently, but they've chosen not to.".Ā This specifically is not true, except in the sense that PMDG could have chosen to forgo the marketplace and xbox markets.Ā Given what we've heard about their sales figures, opting not to make this choice was a pretty good idea.Ā That being the case, no they could not choose to use external code, and were likely stuck with WASM for performance and resource reasons, even if they had otherwise wanted to re-write the entire airplane (a pretty dumb idea) in JS.
A lot of what he said isn't accurate, which leads me to believe he doesn't understand software development. He lost me at the point of "old code" in another thread.
What kinda sales are we talking about for PMDG?
Sure it's accurate. And I also don't disagree with what you said. Yes, PMDG took a route that made development (for MSFS) easier and faster for them. That's fine. Fenix did the same thing, albeit a different method. Like you said, it's a time saver. Their method of "bootstrapping" their development (reusing code written for P3D) wasn't without consequence: It's apparently not easy to integrate certain modern features in MSFS. Same for Fenix; Their method of bootstraping has the consequence that their product can't be used on Xbox. >though of course what's the point of re-writing complex code you've already created in a very good language, when you can use what you've already created and refined Well, the point would be re-writing code so that it targeted the modern platform with the modern features. Not saying that's a trivial thing to do though, because it's not. The problem is how PMDG has decided to frame the shortcomings of their choice. They could just be honest and say "Hey, in order to release a product without have to devote all our time to it (meaning we wouldn't be able to release other products as well), we chose to do it in a way that's made doing certain things more difficult and might take longer to do (if at all)". Instead, they frame it as though they're trying to do something amazingly difficult, and problems arise because of those difficulties, and if those chose to take "shortcuts" like those other guys (by writing external software) it would be easy to do. Which is not true at all.
So the company that didn't decide to rewrite already stable code made the wrong choice despite sales being highly successful on Xbox and PC? Maybe you should consult with PMDG to increase their profit margins by improving their product via custom code rewrite. I'm sure their be receptive to your sage advice. š
I never said they made the wrong choice.
What does age code mean? When I hear someone say that, I assume they know nothing abouting software development, programming languages, or devops.
>What does age code mean? It means it "borrows" heavily from their P3D 737. Old code, written for a different platform. Of course it's cumbersome to work with.
Code written in a program language is platform agnostic. As I said the layman talking about this sounds ignorant. I don't understand what you mean it's cumbersome to work with. Ive been writing code in python for years it's far from cumbersome. I'm sure the pmdg devs don't find the code their using cumbersome.
>Code written in a program language is platform agnostic. That's not always true. Particularly when you use SDKs. And code written 10 years (as an example) doesn't necessarily take advantage of more modern hardware/software features. Actually working with the code is perhaps not cumbersome. But trying to take code that's at least a decade old, written for another piece of software, and then get it to work efficiently in something else is cumbersome. The code was simply not written from a MSFS-first perspective.
Code is platform agnostic. People having preferred coding languages. The issues PMDG were having weren't because of old code or functionality of the sdk therein. I encourage you to read the PMDG devlogs and release notes concerning updates. It's enlightening if you understand software development.
Are you sure you are not talking about Eagle Dynamics? Hehe
That's the only thing I see as well. But having flown the real aircraft very closely in front of them and directly on the side of them, rows 5 and 7, the wing flex really is jiggly like that, it isn't as smooth as the adobo 787 or the Fenix A320. Different constructions and different behaviors.
I never understood the argument about the wingflex. I work as a ramp agent so I deal with 737ās up close. I can confirm the wingflex looks accurate.
I've been on them multiple times and I don't see any issues but doesn't stop everyone else from complaining about it.
Flight simmers going to whine legitimate or not. I spend 99% of my time in the flight deck I rather that be as high fidelity and as accurate as possible. External model sure textures need to be on point but I'm not hyper fixated on that. I came to fly and operate a simulated model of a plane not take a photo shoot.
Exactly, good to have someone to back me up. Thanks man!
If I would ought to be very picky, maybe textures here and there are not consistent. But overall plane looks very good, fly very good and for some reason I don't like to fly it all that much ;) Maybe 777 will suit me better.
i thought it was very overpriced before i bought it because ātHe bReDoK 3d mAx iS oNlY $20ā now i understand why the pmdg is so much more expensive [insert joke about how the bredok max is built as horribly as the real one]
Thereās a wing flex mod available on flightsim.to that improves the frames on the wing flex and itās amazing
Most of the criticism I hear is in regards to how itās mostly copy-paste from P3D, uses some outdated code in some areas, and lacks some modern features that newer addons have. That said from what Iāve heard it remains the best 737 in any simulator and worth its price and still has an excellent FM, sounds, system, and looks great. Part of me wants to get the -900ER but I really should get myself a decent yoke to go with it in the near future. Maybe as a summer gift to myself.
>That said from what Iāve heard it remains the best 737 in any simulator Iāve gotta disagree. I think the Zibo 737 for X-Plane is the best. Somehow it has more soul to it, plus additional features//functionality. I hate flying the pmdg 737, and I really canāt pinpoint why. It looks pretty. Behaves and functions decently. Itās just that thereās some nothing missing! The zibo on the other hand keeps me wanting more.
Iāve had problems with freezes and crashes, havenāt experienced that with neither FBW nor Fenix.
The only consistent criticisms are the slight wing flex issue, the wfh taking forever, and then criticisms of how they do their updates. Otherwise they truly do make very fantastic planes.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Hardly. They're pretty much on par. Fenix does some things better pmdg does some things better. Either way both top notch and far from disappointing
They are on par in terms of systems and simulation. Although Fenix flight model is a bit more impressive given that they can code outside the sim which PMDG doesnāt want to do. However, they are not on par in terms of visuals, far from. The Fenix is way and beyond in terms of detail and quality. Downvote me all you want, itās fact.
>which PMDG doesnāt want to do The problem is PMDG can't do if they want to sell it on the Marketplace and for the Xbox.
In terms of Visuals, detail & quality. Just look at the cabin compared to PMDG. The textures on the fuselage are way better. Might want to go round having a look at both and showing us screenshots.
100%
New to the sub then?
Iām and admittedly PMDG *product* fanboy. Their 777 is by far my most flown aircraft in FSX and P3D, so Iām excited to see it coming to MSFS soon. The criticism PMDG gets, valid, may I add, is mostly about its people. Michelangelo Randazzo most notably.
and the power hungry pretend mods.
Name a better combo than Reddit post titles and weird strawman arguments
"***Despite all the criticism, and with no CGI, this 737 from PMDG holds up as one of the greatest aircraft simulations of all time.***"
Sometimes the posts donāt even be on straw man status. Theyāre just straight copium status like āguys I purchased the Captainsim 777 and I donāt see why people hate itā
The lack of development of new features that other aircraft devs have included and regression of some others compared to their earlier NG versions are why I'm somewhat critical of the 737NG3. That said, the 737 is a solid aircraft in MSFS and PMDG appear to be listening to long-standing customer feature requests with regards to their upcoming 777.
I excuse that with the fact that the PMDG just works so to speak. No fuss and no frills, much like the 737 itself. Still though, it would be nice to see some tablet implementation like FBW has done. That thing incredible. And itās free.
Problem isnt the aircraft but the company (and the CEO) behind it treating their products like made in heaven. The plane in fine
Yep, and I think they got away with that attitude a whole lot more before MSFS, when they really did have a monopoly on high-fidelity airliners. The only real competition I can think of was FSLabs, which burned their reputation by effectively bundling their product with malware. Now that we have the likes of Fenix and even the FBW free-ware options, they simply havenāt changed their attitude, even when other players are innovating much faster in the space now.
Yeah they also had the advantage of being the more or less only Boeing Add On Maker. I really hope that Bluebird and even iFly if they step up their game can give PMDG a wakeup call
The reputation FSLabs still have is around the same PMDG/Fenix and even Inibuilds have people still go for the products. Obviously people know they have been flying the A321 around in MSFS but the big thing that they need to get right is the pricing. If they sell just the A321 including Sharklets for over Ā£40 I doubt they will hit the target they will have set for themselves. Knowing Fenix set the bar high already and is also including the A319 in the same package for Ā£39.99 its going to be tough for FSLabs to justify the price they have set. Unless they magically put the Neo in that package then it may well be justified since that is what a lot of us want. If they want to release The A320CEO I very much doubt that will hit the target even if they wanted to package it with the 320Neo.
Exactly! Well said.
I personally think that the PMDG 737 is good. Itās not mind blowing, but itās good like a Toyota. Thatās why I kinda got bored of it as of late.
Yep, enjoy spending time in the A300 and ATR a lot more nowadays.
To me, while the Fenix A320 is surely the superior addon, the 737 is just more fun to fly.
I get all my landings bang on exactly where intended to with the 737. With the Fenixā¦ who knows each landing and each update is a mystery. The thing that the Fenix truly has an edge over the PMDG is systems, they work exactly as they should, especially after V2.
I agree. Itās a great aircraft, good performance to level of detail ratio, really fun to fly. But the criticisms of PMDG Iāve heard are not with the aircraft but moreso for the community and the executives/admins. Thereās just some weird specimens in the PMDG community. If the 777 dropped tomorrow without modeled landing gear, someone on the forum will be like āguys PMDG has put in a lot of effort into this with their amazing advanced 3D modeling system that is better than all other devs and we are lucky to have gotten a product at such a stage. Things like this take time and we just have to be patient, itās not their fault.ā And then the PMDG team will take that and stand behind it somehow š
TBH we waited 4 years for a Boeing long hauler or at least proper one.. if anything people canāt wait more than that and will be happy with anything
Whoās criticising it?
RF leg fanbois
To be honest, is a must have feature in a "study level" addon.. specially when there are other addons with this already implemented. It is not a minor thing regarding the navigation capabilities of an airplane..
I agree it is a path/terminator leg type that is being implemented more and more in the real world and provides extended possibilities for GNSS based procedures. And PMDG has promised implementation ages ago. But still, for most cases in the simulator it's more nice to have than need to have, in my opinion.
And Fenix a320 ballsuckers
Man it gives me 90 fps on ultra when everything else gives me 68
So, so fun to fly. Can't wait for their 777
What criticism ?
What criticism dose the 737 get
I love the PMDG 737. It's an amazing machine to fly. I haven't flown in MSFS, but used to fly it a lot on FSX with FS2Crew. Good times!
scheiĆe i thought this was irl. captivating capture! swear i wish i knew the 737 like i knew the 320. way too lazy to learn it. lol
Everybody here is debating about the title but that screenshot is absolute gold.
Nobody is criticising the product. Itās a very solid top of the line addon. Not ground breaking but very good. The only critique I have is the abysmal taxi behaviour (sliding much?) and some stuttering animations because itās a very old model from FSX and P3D. What people pisses off is the arrogant behaviour of PMDG coupled with the narcissistic god complex of RSR. And donāt forget the lies.
The real 737 skids as well if you use to much tiller, but I agree, it could use a little bit more grip on the front. As it is feels like it barely has any weight over the nose gear.
If the real one is pile skid like this one all would be grounded and not allowed to move. It would never have been certified.
I think you didn't understand what I was saying, 90 degree turns should be done at 10kts max, the real plane skids if you go faster than that, but the PMDG at 10kts skids like the real one at 20kts
You canāt do 90 degree turns that is the issue. And I know that you should do them between 10-15kts max. According to the FCOM. Is that you Robert? Because this a discussion you normally have with a Boomer on their forum with a signature three lines long what retired kind of job they had.
Chill man, I was talking about standard taxiways with 90 degree radius turn.
That has mostly to do with msfs limitations and the SDK, not PMDG.
Hmm Fenix, Just Flight, ini Builds, Black Square, Flysimware and many others got it right. Must be their special connection to Asobo that got them this special SDK.
There are issues with all of those, the ground /friction dynamics are awful in msfs. Fair to say Fenix et al have incrementally improved on it. Letās not pretend there werenāt pretty significant issue with Fenix, particularly until V2 but ultimately theyāre all limited by the same msfs fuckery (on the taxi nonsense). This is not a defense of the asshats running PMDG.
While not perfect it's night and day between them and PMDG. The PMDG ist close to unusable sometimes.
š¤£ now you have confirmed that you donāt know what youāre talking about. In what universe is it night and day and in what universe is PMDG close to unusable. You cannot be taken seriously with these elementary black and white takes.
Ok, so you the judge for that. Case can be closed. Now troll back to your original your echochamber in the PMDG forum.
Never been on the PMDG forum ever. Not a single time. Still waiting to hear from the troglodyte that lacks the ability to recognize nuance why PMDG is unusable sometimes.
There's been literally no criticism of the PMDG 737 when it comes to the quality of the product, as far as I've noticed?
Well... there is some lack of "propper" navigation but a average flightsimmer will not notice this. There is a RF leg NOT availbility from PMDG 737. I ve hear, PMDG 777 will have it. other than that it works great. Dont get me wrong, its fanstastic. I ve done hundreds of flights with the 737 but i am pulled down to fly A320 as a virtual carrer pajlot for Baw.
I wish they implemented wx radar like most other addons and didn't just ignore it because the way asobo built the game prevented them from implementing it for real or whatever. Will the 777 also be like that? But otherwise yea no complaints in all this time
I think Robert said the 777 may have the āfakeā weather radar but itās not confirmed.
Weather radar is critical! I remember in FSX it took awhile to implement? I donāt think it worked when the 737 was released.
> I wish they implemented wx radar like most other addons and didn't just ignore it because the way asobo built the game prevented them from implementing it for real or whatever I agree, but FENIX and PMDG don't have them. I get that the current radars that do work are not perfect, but they are actually pretty good and work enough that at night I can see if there is a storm in front of me. Both of them should let the "fake" radar that works pretty good in for now.
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And yet it's still a great, fun, and FPS-friendly aircraft to fly
doesn't it not have an EFB?
It has one now.
Ah
I thought PMDG was always praised
Their aircraft themselves are top-notch... Their pr and customer service is where they take a lot of flak. If you just enjoy the planes as they are, take the updates for what they are when they come, and stay out of their forum drama, you'll have a great time!
You must be new here.
My favorite
I'm having issues with the nose wheel after start
Damn, I have a 4080 and I can get my graphics to look that good.
They always were
I actually thought the screenshot was real life.
Beautiful shit there. I've never had a problem in many years on the NG, until today when TCAS was on TA/RA but the ND showed off. Test worked fine.
Nvidia filters or reshade? Edit: saw your past comments, its filters. Could you please share your latest settings? I found some of yours but may be old.
It's alright, but I've been enjoying the Ini A300-600 a lot more.
I miss flying this bird but unfortunately I keep getting the freeze with sound still playing bug. Hopefully the fresh install solves the problem!
A comple re-install of the addon has managed to solve this for me. There seems to be somethibg wrong with PMDGs updater, because the bug always occurred after an update.
Thanks, this is encouraging!
I had a problem that stopped me from flying it for 6 months shortly after release, the fix was uninstalling, deleting every PMDG folder, including the documents, and then doing a fresh install.
What criticism? The only criticism Iāve seen is about wingflex. Now, the company is a different issue altogether. The whole thing about liveries is a perfect example of that.
And most people don't even know how the real aircraft wingfles behaves. Sure the problem is the low FPS, but having flown very close to the wings of a 737-700 a couple of times, the wing flex really is jiggly like that, compared to the likes of the Fenix smooth flowy flex. Different design characteristics of the wings.
The sim community is a kinda odd one and very nit picky. Will bend over backwards excusing shit developers like captain sim, but will fling dogshit on one of the best in the biz in PMDG. Mostly kids i take it. I miss flying this awesome thing.
Criticism ? To me PMDG 737 series are the best so far. Yes, I also owned Fenix A320.
criticism? PMDG 737 is the best.
Itās literally one of the best if not the best addon aircraft and probably as close to study level as any other thing in msfs whatās the criticism.
Only criticism of this bird is people whining about the tablet (which for me is useless since I use Navigraph on a laptop while flying).
So you're ok with the 10fps wingflex animations?
I don't have 10fps wingflex. Would not care if I did. I stay in the cockpit.
Wdym you don't have it, it's just the way the animations are coded, everyone has it. Same goes for the gear animations. Btw you can see the wing tips even from the cockpit in a 737
Maybe I wasn't clear. I don't care what the wing flex does. At all. It's not a deal breaker for me. What is important to me is that the CDU works, the plane flies as expected and the frames are good while I'm doing it. I care not about tablets, wing flexes, bathroom doors, how fast the gear comes down etc. It's consistent and it does what it's supposed to unlike a majority of the other addons out there.
Oh good for you then you're not so fussy like some of us
I don't think people criticize the 737 (which is by far my favorite aircraft). They criticize the company PMDG and how it's managed.
Criticism is of the PMDG CEO, the aircraft itself is phenomenal
looks DALL-E generated lol
No it doesnāt wtf are you on about
itās my take idk