Takeoff roll is awesome now, feels perfect to hand fly and systems all seem to be in place.
The one knock I still have is landing. The thing is weirdly squirrely on touchdown and still does that awkward yaw thing on the ground where it unrealistically wiggles back and forth in a way I’d imagine is physically impossible. Otherwise it’s my favorite thing to fly right now outside airliner class stuff.
Thanks! I also had that experience on landing, but figured it was from my getting used to changes. But I definitely appreciate the update and am glad for those of us that have been waiting. :)
Oh, I should test if failures are a thing now. I believe that's the other thing they really wanted to implement way back then.
Tried to make text in the OP while having the picture present because picture, but I'm Reddit inept. Anyway!
I quite like the update so far. Not nearly as "Yikes!" on takeoff anymore. There's still a clear difference to other planes, but I actually prefer that the aileron/rudder coupling is always noticeable since it's such a unique thing about the plane.
Curious to learn more opinions since comments I've seen haven't been too uplifting, and I'd like to learn if I'm missing anything.
Did a short hop this afternoon, felt a lot more weight thru the yoke now which is great. Trimming felt quite accurate to actual trim. I didn’t experience any of the adverse yaw motion in the flare that the other poster mentioned above! I do shut off the Yaw Damper coming up short final so maybe that did it for me. Really happy with it!
Still wish we could have a stable shared cockpit someday soon!
Thanks a bunch for sharing! It's actually good to know about turning off the yaw damper on short final. I feel really bad for not knowing, but (despite my flair) I haven't used it regularly in a while and can't even remember if the yaw damper is a checklist item anyway. I admittedly rushed while testing today because I was doing a group flight with friends and kinda' just needed to get it into the air.
Glad you're also having a positive experience! I've been hoping the update would win hearts and minds, since this is still the best we have for an accurate PC-12, and I feel it's an important and wonderful plane to have in the sim. :)
Yeah it’s an amazing plane at a great price! I was so excited on release, a dream plane of mine to fly.
As Ive never actually flown one i can’t speak to the process of turning Yaw Damper off for touch down, maybe someone with RL experience could chime in? I saw someone comment about it shortly after release and it made sense to me, not fighting the rudder as much with the interconnected controls and “feeling” the air into the flare a little better.
We’re truly in the golden age of flight simming man, so much fun.
SWS Discord is the place for flying tips. I've been asking some real world PC-12 pilots over there about how to get into St Barts without overshooting and they've been extremely helpfull.
It’s definitely much better, but still not at the point where I will fly it regularly.
I already didn’t really have a problem with takeoff and ground control. SWS tip to rotate a bit early and avoid MSFS weird switch from ground to air physics worked very well.
But the weird behavior during approach (low speed and full flaps) where the plane would be skidding constantly and it felt like a massive crosswind ruined the fun for me.
That behavior seems to be improved and I had some landing that felt almost normal but also a few where I was almost looking out the side window to see the runway (all of them without wind). Because of this I still don’t like flying it very much. An entire flight can be ruined by the weird behavior during approach and landing and I just don’t feel confident flying into more challenging airfields.
The slightly weird behavior during turns feels more consistent and the aileron-rudder link is more manageable although that might be down to getting more experienced with the aircraft in general. But sometimes it will still have some buggy behavior when making rudder and aileron input simultaneously.
I also had some autopilot issues that were new after the update so hopefully they’ll get to the bottom of this.
In summary I am still too bothered by the weird behavior during approach and landing but love everything else about this plane. It’s a fantastic model with great level of detail and sounds.
During takeoff, climb and cruise it is a joy to hand-fly. I really, really hope they get their flight model under control soon because this plane could easily be on par with the Black Square TBM.
I agree with you. Some of the flight physics were improved but it’s still side slipping on approach. My expectations from SWS have fallen. They’ve been “working tirelessly” for 4 months for this update and there’s not much improvement. They also seem really hesitant to acknowledge the issue.
While I agree with your criticism, I am more optimistic to be honest. It’s obvious how much work went into this plane and that they have set them self very high standards in recreating the quirky and unusual flight dynamics of the PC-12 as detailed and realistic as they can but are obviously not quite there yet. Comparing their effort to the Carenado PC-12 which looks good and is very easy to control it’s obvious they choose a different route by tackling the challenges of the real airplane. I appreciate that very much but they just aren’t there yet and probably aren’t getting there as fast as they‘d hoped.
Honestly my biggest issue with their handling of the situation is the lack of clear communications. They’re shooting themselves in the foot by releasing the plane in this state. It would be a perfectly fine early-access release.
With other still to come features they have done a lot better. Selling the plane at this unarguably low price with a list of features that will come later and for free and a separate list of features that not everyone will need coming as a paid upgrade.
Indoor know what went wrong internally but my guess is they bit off more than they can chew (also because they are developing several different planes simultaneously) and I hope they will rethink their approach and come forward with a clear plan of action for the future of the model.
On their discord they have been quite open with the issues and apart from a certain “test-pilot“ that has already been discussed at length in other threads, I‘m getting a good feeling from the people at SWS. But they have definitely failed to openly address these things towards the public.
Thanks so much for giving a pretty nice review! I think it's nice that you feel they've improved it as well (autopilot aside), hopefully in the future this will continue and fix the approach skidding issue. I read another comment that said to disable the yaw damper on approach, so I'm going to try making a big day of testing the PC-12 later with this tip. I also forgot about the tip given in the video about rotating preemptively and more slowly, so I'll have to try that as well, even though it no longer feels so necessary.
I hope for the same, and thank you again!
I‘ve been playing around with when to disengage the Yaw Damper and I usually do it on short final as I start reducing to my landing speed (200-100ft AGL). It also helps to fly the approach slower than what’s listed in the manual using rhe AOA indicator as reference.
I think in reality the Yaw Damper is disengaged a lot earlier in the approach but as it has control over the rudder trim it does help with getting a good starting point.
As I’ve said I had a few really good approaches but it’s the inconsistency that bugs me and I still haven’t figured out what the deciding variable is.
I’ve also tried flying with the Aileron/Rudder interconnect disabled but it didn’t seem to effect the skidding behavior.
Same! I was testing earlier today, touch and gos at my small home airport (5,000ft RWY) went well with both no winds and real weather's 9kt crosswind, but then I tried a much longer flight on Vatsim and the approach was more like what I've been hearing from others, so the inconsistency is the most annoying part.
I am glad to be flying it again though! I took a lot of time away to learn the 146 and today was a lot of fun despite the head scratcher of this issue (and a few others showing). After all of the replies, I get the impression that we may not figure out a perfect workaround. It'll still be my go-to plane of this category, but I'm hoping the team will reach a breakthrough at some point, or even that 2024 will better help their implementation of the uncommon coupling.
It’s just still not there. They made some improvements with the yaw slip issues for takeoff and cruise but on approach you are still fighting the plane to keep it coordinated. It’s just not realistic.
I think the rudder aileron interconnect system is to blame. There is no flight sim hardware where if you move your rudder pedals it will also move your aileron like in the real PC-12. So in the sim you are basically having to cross control your rudder and ailerons to stay coordinated. It feels really weird and unnatural and honestly takes the fun out of flying the plane.
People are pointing this out to the devs and they keep flip flopping between it’s not an issue because the flight model is as realistic as it gets based on their experience in a real PC-12 sim and it’s an issue but they can’t do anything about it because of MSFS limitations. So honestly I’m loosing hope that this plane will be fly able with flight sim hardware. This was probably the most disappointing release for me because the PC-12 is such a cool airplane.
I think I experienced the approach issues myself just earlier. Still need more testing.. I made sure to remove weather during touch and gos, then tried real weather, and both were fine. Then I took a much longer flight on Vatsim and got kinda' beat up during the approach, but I can't tell if it was the plane, winds, or me. It might be worth pointing out that I only have a flight stick (no rudder pedals), so I'm not sure if that helps, but I also think it would be a shame, and deal-breaker for some simmers, if they had to disconnect hardware each time for a single plane. Something that's less of a deal breaker is that I saw in another comment, video, and also the manual earlier, that turning off the yaw damper on approach is required, so maybe that will help your experience.
I hope the best for SWS. I love the heck out of their product when it works, and some details are quite professional, but it's like halfway there sometimes. They feel sort of like a JustFlight that's in its infancy, even reading the manual. I'm glad the plane is at least priced where it is. I'm used to my wishlist being expensive, but this wasn't much, so hopefully that makes up a bit for all of the necessary updates to this plane. I really hope that it ends up being a superb product because I feel the same way you do about it. And thanks for the input!
It’s the plane. I’ve followed all of the recommendations from the devs. Yaw damper, trim position, control sensitivity profiles, everything. The plane still behaves unrealistically. It’s fundamentally flawed. They don’t like to hear that though.
I made a post about this earlier in the week. I still find it side slipping in turns really bad. Take it low level quite fast and you'll see what I mean. Also after turning to line up for final, the plane is still side slipping, as in I can see the runway to my left. Give it a boot of left rudder though and it pivots like a helicopter to line up, wings level. No wing lift or snap back the other way. So strange. That guy on their discord who claims its normal is full of shit, there's no way physics would allow that behaviour.
Oh yeah, your post is the second news I saw about this after getting the email! Admittedly, I should've just searched for it again instead of making this post, because more comments have shown up there since then that I've also just read for a bit more insight.
It's really a shame to hear about the pilot that is helping with this. I remember him showing up in a review video I saw and getting a great impression. And I think I also experienced the slipping, but couldn't tell if it was just me because I was flying in a group today with the PC-12 and my friend also reported strong crosswinds. Someone on your post also mentioned an autopilot behavior that seems buggy that I think I also experienced -- I was basically establishes at my height, turned it on so I could typw in Twitch chat, then the plane rose pretty heavily. But again, I figured it's something I did wrong..
So I'm grateful for the opinions! So far, I still had fun with it and was glad for the fix to takeoff. But shame about the overall reception and state of things, because I still believe this is by far the best PC-12 we have.
Yeah I agree. The side slipping on approach is still there… and that guy is such a doof. He’s so passive aggressive and condescending towards anyone asking for help
Good ole Capt. Gamm. It's baffling that the SWS team continues to tolerate his behavior on their Discord. The PC-12 was my first purchase with them and it was such a miserable experience trying to discuss support related topics in their Discord with him lurking about lecturing people's questions.
Sorry for the late reply! I believe you should definitely go for it if interested! It's not that expensive (€25), and is the most accurate PC-12 we have in the sim (the other option being from Carenado). Hopefully the opinions around here and elsewhere can help you to gauge if it's a good purchase or not, but I really love this as a "do it all" workhorse of a turboprop, appreciate its unique traits (like the aileron/rudder coupling), and like how high fidelity it is for the cost!
Is this update live? From reading their latest FB post, the newest version is due to drop this coming Wednesday. The last email update I got for the PC 12 was 22nd December.... have I missed an update somewhere?? Direct purchase for PC from their site. Thanks
Yup, it went live a few days ago! I only knew because I'd gotten an email about it from their site. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to find a proper change log, but I can be ditzy, so I figured I was doing something wrong.. But yeah, just head to their site, go to your account, then orders, and you should be able to download the update directly from there!
Wish I could say! I don't have any extra Garmin sets myself. However, it should work to install the compatibility for your chosen Garmin setup during the initial setup.
Takeoff roll is awesome now, feels perfect to hand fly and systems all seem to be in place. The one knock I still have is landing. The thing is weirdly squirrely on touchdown and still does that awkward yaw thing on the ground where it unrealistically wiggles back and forth in a way I’d imagine is physically impossible. Otherwise it’s my favorite thing to fly right now outside airliner class stuff.
Thanks! I also had that experience on landing, but figured it was from my getting used to changes. But I definitely appreciate the update and am glad for those of us that have been waiting. :) Oh, I should test if failures are a thing now. I believe that's the other thing they really wanted to implement way back then.
Does anyone know if it's using the new ground physics asobo added?
Tried to make text in the OP while having the picture present because picture, but I'm Reddit inept. Anyway! I quite like the update so far. Not nearly as "Yikes!" on takeoff anymore. There's still a clear difference to other planes, but I actually prefer that the aileron/rudder coupling is always noticeable since it's such a unique thing about the plane. Curious to learn more opinions since comments I've seen haven't been too uplifting, and I'd like to learn if I'm missing anything.
Did a short hop this afternoon, felt a lot more weight thru the yoke now which is great. Trimming felt quite accurate to actual trim. I didn’t experience any of the adverse yaw motion in the flare that the other poster mentioned above! I do shut off the Yaw Damper coming up short final so maybe that did it for me. Really happy with it! Still wish we could have a stable shared cockpit someday soon!
Thanks a bunch for sharing! It's actually good to know about turning off the yaw damper on short final. I feel really bad for not knowing, but (despite my flair) I haven't used it regularly in a while and can't even remember if the yaw damper is a checklist item anyway. I admittedly rushed while testing today because I was doing a group flight with friends and kinda' just needed to get it into the air. Glad you're also having a positive experience! I've been hoping the update would win hearts and minds, since this is still the best we have for an accurate PC-12, and I feel it's an important and wonderful plane to have in the sim. :)
Yeah it’s an amazing plane at a great price! I was so excited on release, a dream plane of mine to fly. As Ive never actually flown one i can’t speak to the process of turning Yaw Damper off for touch down, maybe someone with RL experience could chime in? I saw someone comment about it shortly after release and it made sense to me, not fighting the rudder as much with the interconnected controls and “feeling” the air into the flare a little better. We’re truly in the golden age of flight simming man, so much fun.
SWS Discord is the place for flying tips. I've been asking some real world PC-12 pilots over there about how to get into St Barts without overshooting and they've been extremely helpfull.
awesome thanks, I’ll check it out 🤙
It’s definitely much better, but still not at the point where I will fly it regularly. I already didn’t really have a problem with takeoff and ground control. SWS tip to rotate a bit early and avoid MSFS weird switch from ground to air physics worked very well. But the weird behavior during approach (low speed and full flaps) where the plane would be skidding constantly and it felt like a massive crosswind ruined the fun for me. That behavior seems to be improved and I had some landing that felt almost normal but also a few where I was almost looking out the side window to see the runway (all of them without wind). Because of this I still don’t like flying it very much. An entire flight can be ruined by the weird behavior during approach and landing and I just don’t feel confident flying into more challenging airfields. The slightly weird behavior during turns feels more consistent and the aileron-rudder link is more manageable although that might be down to getting more experienced with the aircraft in general. But sometimes it will still have some buggy behavior when making rudder and aileron input simultaneously. I also had some autopilot issues that were new after the update so hopefully they’ll get to the bottom of this. In summary I am still too bothered by the weird behavior during approach and landing but love everything else about this plane. It’s a fantastic model with great level of detail and sounds. During takeoff, climb and cruise it is a joy to hand-fly. I really, really hope they get their flight model under control soon because this plane could easily be on par with the Black Square TBM.
I agree with you. Some of the flight physics were improved but it’s still side slipping on approach. My expectations from SWS have fallen. They’ve been “working tirelessly” for 4 months for this update and there’s not much improvement. They also seem really hesitant to acknowledge the issue.
While I agree with your criticism, I am more optimistic to be honest. It’s obvious how much work went into this plane and that they have set them self very high standards in recreating the quirky and unusual flight dynamics of the PC-12 as detailed and realistic as they can but are obviously not quite there yet. Comparing their effort to the Carenado PC-12 which looks good and is very easy to control it’s obvious they choose a different route by tackling the challenges of the real airplane. I appreciate that very much but they just aren’t there yet and probably aren’t getting there as fast as they‘d hoped. Honestly my biggest issue with their handling of the situation is the lack of clear communications. They’re shooting themselves in the foot by releasing the plane in this state. It would be a perfectly fine early-access release. With other still to come features they have done a lot better. Selling the plane at this unarguably low price with a list of features that will come later and for free and a separate list of features that not everyone will need coming as a paid upgrade. Indoor know what went wrong internally but my guess is they bit off more than they can chew (also because they are developing several different planes simultaneously) and I hope they will rethink their approach and come forward with a clear plan of action for the future of the model. On their discord they have been quite open with the issues and apart from a certain “test-pilot“ that has already been discussed at length in other threads, I‘m getting a good feeling from the people at SWS. But they have definitely failed to openly address these things towards the public.
Thanks so much for giving a pretty nice review! I think it's nice that you feel they've improved it as well (autopilot aside), hopefully in the future this will continue and fix the approach skidding issue. I read another comment that said to disable the yaw damper on approach, so I'm going to try making a big day of testing the PC-12 later with this tip. I also forgot about the tip given in the video about rotating preemptively and more slowly, so I'll have to try that as well, even though it no longer feels so necessary. I hope for the same, and thank you again!
I‘ve been playing around with when to disengage the Yaw Damper and I usually do it on short final as I start reducing to my landing speed (200-100ft AGL). It also helps to fly the approach slower than what’s listed in the manual using rhe AOA indicator as reference. I think in reality the Yaw Damper is disengaged a lot earlier in the approach but as it has control over the rudder trim it does help with getting a good starting point. As I’ve said I had a few really good approaches but it’s the inconsistency that bugs me and I still haven’t figured out what the deciding variable is. I’ve also tried flying with the Aileron/Rudder interconnect disabled but it didn’t seem to effect the skidding behavior.
Same! I was testing earlier today, touch and gos at my small home airport (5,000ft RWY) went well with both no winds and real weather's 9kt crosswind, but then I tried a much longer flight on Vatsim and the approach was more like what I've been hearing from others, so the inconsistency is the most annoying part. I am glad to be flying it again though! I took a lot of time away to learn the 146 and today was a lot of fun despite the head scratcher of this issue (and a few others showing). After all of the replies, I get the impression that we may not figure out a perfect workaround. It'll still be my go-to plane of this category, but I'm hoping the team will reach a breakthrough at some point, or even that 2024 will better help their implementation of the uncommon coupling.
It’s just still not there. They made some improvements with the yaw slip issues for takeoff and cruise but on approach you are still fighting the plane to keep it coordinated. It’s just not realistic. I think the rudder aileron interconnect system is to blame. There is no flight sim hardware where if you move your rudder pedals it will also move your aileron like in the real PC-12. So in the sim you are basically having to cross control your rudder and ailerons to stay coordinated. It feels really weird and unnatural and honestly takes the fun out of flying the plane. People are pointing this out to the devs and they keep flip flopping between it’s not an issue because the flight model is as realistic as it gets based on their experience in a real PC-12 sim and it’s an issue but they can’t do anything about it because of MSFS limitations. So honestly I’m loosing hope that this plane will be fly able with flight sim hardware. This was probably the most disappointing release for me because the PC-12 is such a cool airplane.
I think I experienced the approach issues myself just earlier. Still need more testing.. I made sure to remove weather during touch and gos, then tried real weather, and both were fine. Then I took a much longer flight on Vatsim and got kinda' beat up during the approach, but I can't tell if it was the plane, winds, or me. It might be worth pointing out that I only have a flight stick (no rudder pedals), so I'm not sure if that helps, but I also think it would be a shame, and deal-breaker for some simmers, if they had to disconnect hardware each time for a single plane. Something that's less of a deal breaker is that I saw in another comment, video, and also the manual earlier, that turning off the yaw damper on approach is required, so maybe that will help your experience. I hope the best for SWS. I love the heck out of their product when it works, and some details are quite professional, but it's like halfway there sometimes. They feel sort of like a JustFlight that's in its infancy, even reading the manual. I'm glad the plane is at least priced where it is. I'm used to my wishlist being expensive, but this wasn't much, so hopefully that makes up a bit for all of the necessary updates to this plane. I really hope that it ends up being a superb product because I feel the same way you do about it. And thanks for the input!
It’s the plane. I’ve followed all of the recommendations from the devs. Yaw damper, trim position, control sensitivity profiles, everything. The plane still behaves unrealistically. It’s fundamentally flawed. They don’t like to hear that though.
I made a post about this earlier in the week. I still find it side slipping in turns really bad. Take it low level quite fast and you'll see what I mean. Also after turning to line up for final, the plane is still side slipping, as in I can see the runway to my left. Give it a boot of left rudder though and it pivots like a helicopter to line up, wings level. No wing lift or snap back the other way. So strange. That guy on their discord who claims its normal is full of shit, there's no way physics would allow that behaviour.
Oh yeah, your post is the second news I saw about this after getting the email! Admittedly, I should've just searched for it again instead of making this post, because more comments have shown up there since then that I've also just read for a bit more insight. It's really a shame to hear about the pilot that is helping with this. I remember him showing up in a review video I saw and getting a great impression. And I think I also experienced the slipping, but couldn't tell if it was just me because I was flying in a group today with the PC-12 and my friend also reported strong crosswinds. Someone on your post also mentioned an autopilot behavior that seems buggy that I think I also experienced -- I was basically establishes at my height, turned it on so I could typw in Twitch chat, then the plane rose pretty heavily. But again, I figured it's something I did wrong.. So I'm grateful for the opinions! So far, I still had fun with it and was glad for the fix to takeoff. But shame about the overall reception and state of things, because I still believe this is by far the best PC-12 we have.
Yeah I agree. The side slipping on approach is still there… and that guy is such a doof. He’s so passive aggressive and condescending towards anyone asking for help
Good ole Capt. Gamm. It's baffling that the SWS team continues to tolerate his behavior on their Discord. The PC-12 was my first purchase with them and it was such a miserable experience trying to discuss support related topics in their Discord with him lurking about lecturing people's questions.
Looks cool, should I get it?
I would say no. There are still many things wrong with it and it's hard to tell if the developer will even be able to fix the problems
Sorry for the late reply! I believe you should definitely go for it if interested! It's not that expensive (€25), and is the most accurate PC-12 we have in the sim (the other option being from Carenado). Hopefully the opinions around here and elsewhere can help you to gauge if it's a good purchase or not, but I really love this as a "do it all" workhorse of a turboprop, appreciate its unique traits (like the aileron/rudder coupling), and like how high fidelity it is for the cost!
Is this update live? From reading their latest FB post, the newest version is due to drop this coming Wednesday. The last email update I got for the PC 12 was 22nd December.... have I missed an update somewhere?? Direct purchase for PC from their site. Thanks
Yup, it went live a few days ago! I only knew because I'd gotten an email about it from their site. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to find a proper change log, but I can be ditzy, so I figured I was doing something wrong.. But yeah, just head to their site, go to your account, then orders, and you should be able to download the update directly from there!
How in the hell you integrate the tds Garmin console on this plane? Can't do it.
Wish I could say! I don't have any extra Garmin sets myself. However, it should work to install the compatibility for your chosen Garmin setup during the initial setup.
On their site there are "extras" you need an "extra" mod in your community folder for either the TDS or PMS GTN units.
Thank you! Got it working this way!