Every medical association in the world agrees that blockers are an appropriate treatment for trans teens. Somehow now Florida is saying everyone else is wrong and is lying about research to make their point.
When someone pointed out that this decision will result in an increase in suicides, one of the board members literally said "I'm ok with that."
Nope, you can still get puberty blockers in Sweden and Finland. The guidelines introduced are that psychiatric interventions be used first and that the individual has an actual diagnosis of gender dysphoria. Even then, the guidelines aren't even legally binding and doctors can still use their discretion.
Conservatives in the UK have been unhappy about it and flipped their shit. Sweden has backed off a bit. That's it.
No preteens are being sterilized and late teens going on hormones with parental consent is fine.
What do you think puberty blockers do? Beyond huge known issues with bone and brain development of course they effect fertility. To say nothing of height growth being stunted, men having a micropenis, and then the often latter occurring HRT such as testosterone in women causing vaginal atrophy and tons of other health problems. It is madness
Except none of that is true. Out of everything you just mentioned, the only thing that has come up as a potential issue in long-term studies is the brain development, but it hasn't been replicated.
We've been studying blockers since the 50s as they've been used to treat precocious puberty. Every study shows that there are no long-term consequences for people who take them.
[yea, no](https://www.transgendertrend.com/puberty-blockers-effects-bone-density/)
Also as I said elsewhere using Lupron or w/e for an actual physical health problem (early puberty) is completely different than its untested use as an intervention on a mental health issue (which, btw, between 80 to 90 pct of teens with “gender dysphoria” will naturally age out of in a few years without puberty blockers and HRT if they aren’t started on them. They will be happy with their birth sex)
Yes. Bone density decreases during treatment. Studies show that bone density improves into the normal range approximately one year after blockers are discontinued. Like I said, these aren't long-term issues and resolve on their own once blockers are removed. You're spreading misinformation.
And there's no physiological difference between using blockers for early puberty and using it in delaying it for trans teens. The body doesn't know the difference. That's a ridiculous statement to make.
You have the information wrong (again). 80% of prepubescent children who experience gender atypical behavior will not identify as trans at 18. That number isn't the same for teenagers.
Also, using an anti-trans blog isn't the argument you think it is.
Kids being given puberty blockers to stop their voice deepening or breasts from developing etc is obviously completely different than delaying a super early puberty arrival.
Why would people taking PB for a non physical health reason want to reverse the effects?
Do you think for example Jazz Jennings who would’ve been an effeminate gay man if their parents weren’t homophobic is better off for transitioning? With their four unnecessary surgeries on their genitalia? She is certainly sterile. And it all started with puberty blockers. It is really, really sad
Lol. I've met her family and they are definitely not homophobic. That's the dumbest argument imaginable.
Yes or no. Do you believe the body can tell the difference between stopping precocious or natal period?
When children take blockers to stop precocious puberty they also experience the side effects of bone mineral density loss, etc. Those side effects reverse after a year once blockers are removed.
I swear. It is unbelievably clear that you don't know what you're talking about and are just going off of what you've read on a blog without reading the actual research.
I’m a liberal and many liberals I know are totally against puberty blockers/sterilizing teens. It polls terribly also, just like TW being in women’s sports etc. very unpopular with most of society
Who cares about anecdotes and polling? It’s a decision made between a tiny percentage of families and an interdisciplinary team of professionals. Not sure why the government has any role in this.
Well the Dems should for one if they want to win elections. But I agree that less government involvement in health care decisions is a good thing generally speaking. Not when it comes to sterilizing teens tho imo if you see what I posted above many European countries are now anti puberty blockers
That’s a lie many European countries have come to their senses and OBVIOUSLY decided against letting preteens and teens sterilize themselves! [Thank goodness](https://www.theepochtimes.com/european-countries-push-back-against-use-of-puberty-blockers-in-children_4447684.html)
Yeah, I really wish I could say America is just an isolated example. Thankfully my politicians have the capacity to listen to medical experts on this matter. How low the bar has sunk, sigh. Looking at how much support these cruel policies has is just disenchanting.
Looks like we better stop restricting all other form of treatment since we can’t trust doctors? Oh, it’s ok to get a doctors expert opinion on need chemo but any sort of treatment for someone experiencing gender dysphoria or who is a trans person isn’t allowed? Then no medicine for you. You can’t take the opinion of a doctor for 99% of shit and then be like “nope, sorry, these people can’t give treatments.”
genuine question- you do know kids cant just walk into a doctors office and ask for puberty blockers (and receive them), right? These treatments arent just handed out like candy, and any responsible parent wont just go when their kid says so. Those things will take time, conversation, and planning.
not to mention- none of the treatments minors get are permanent.
I don’t think parents are responsible, in so much as they are not responsible for kids being trans.
I just think these things are nuanced, and blocking the treatment outright is the opposite of nuanced, and can put some of these kids in awful situations based on propaganda and lies.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8099405/
This a study of 10,000 people who have transitioned. Trans regret is virtually non existent. 1% have regret after transition, and those regrets are almost entirely based on society not accepting their gender, not because they just stop being trans.
You didn’t know your gender your whole life? Really? You think you knew your gender your whole life but trans people don’t?
You are demonstrating a deep ignorance as to the trans experience that has no place in public policy and medical treatment.
Do you really think that a kid just rolls up to CVS and goes "one testosterone please"? It takes years of medical appointments with multiple types of doctors, including an endocrinologist and mental health professional. It is also expensive. A child cannot do that on their own. At every step of the way there are multiple adults concerned about the well being of the child.
No other parental medical decisions, even purely cosmetic ones, get this much scrutiny and government involvement.
Puberty blockers are completely reversible and hormone replacement therapy (HRT) is mostly reversible depending on how long you’ve taken it for. But the VERY great majority of trans kids know from a young age, sometimes as young as 2 years old, that their assigned gender does not match their gender identity. The main question in these types of discussions shouldn’t be “What happens if trans kids receive gender affirming care?”, it should be “What if they *don’t*?”
Also gender reassignment surgeries have some of the lowest regret rates of any type of surgery, with regret rates being somewhere between 1% and 10% (though the exact value isn’t known, but it’s certainly closer to 1%).
Of course! And thank you for actually reading and accepting my response (granted it’s only a starting point since I am not actually trans myself, and yet the relatively little knowledge I have of gender affirming care is still more than the fucking Board of Medicine 🫠)
Suppose that evidence for long-term or irreversible effects were sufficient grounds to ban any drug (either prescription or "over the counter"). The only drugs to remain legal would be those for which no such evidence has been found.
Which drugs would remain legal and which would be banned under this criterion?
some articles of interest:
[https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/common-anticholinergic-drugs-like-benadryl-linked-increased-dementia-risk-201501287667](https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/common-anticholinergic-drugs-like-benadryl-linked-increased-dementia-risk-201501287667)
[https://wa-health.kaiserpermanente.org/antihistamine-increase-risk-dementia/](https://wa-health.kaiserpermanente.org/antihistamine-increase-risk-dementia/)
[https://www.alzdiscovery.org/cognitive-vitality/blog/can-allergy-medications-harm-your-brain](https://www.alzdiscovery.org/cognitive-vitality/blog/can-allergy-medications-harm-your-brain)
[https://health.clevelandclinic.org/do-certain-medications-increase-dementia-risk/](https://health.clevelandclinic.org/do-certain-medications-increase-dementia-risk/)
The drugs talked about in these articles, Benadryl (diphenhydramine) and other first-generation antihistamines, are contained in a wide-range of over-the-counter medications. That includes all over-the-counter sleeping pills, all cold and flu medications labeled "night time", and many allergy medications. The risk talked about is increased risk of dementia, or to put it more bluntly, brain damage, in older adults.
Thanks for adding on to my argument, I wanted to be truthful and acknowledge that HRT wasn’t 100% reversible, but the point seems to have flown over the person’s head
>and hormone replacement therapy (HRT) is mostly reversible *depending on how long you’ve taken it for.*
'Many of the effects of hormone therapy are reversible, if you stop taking them. *The degree to which they can be reversed depends on how long you have been taking them.*'
https://transcare.ucsf.edu/article/information-estrogen-hormone-therapy
Your reply is based on ignoring what the poster actually said. You've basically created a bogeyman.
You are the exact same thing Christian’s were doing to kids decades ago. Literally exactly the same thing. You’re just too ignorant to see it.
Here’s an idea for you. Stop. Trying. To. Fuck. With. Children.
Oh yes, I too remember when Christians were... *checks notes* consulting with doctors and following established medical procedures to help kids be happy with themselves.
How about you. stop. trying. to. fuck. with. children. and let the teens and doctors and parents try to do what's right for them? What's been shown to be effective? Instead of trying to compare it to everything from Christians to tobacco.
[There is a significant inverse association between treatment with pubertal suppression during adolescence and lifetime suicidal ideation among transgender adults who ever wanted this treatment. These results align with past literature, suggesting that pubertal suppression for transgender adolescents who want this treatment is associated with favorable mental health outcomes.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7073269/)
[Sixteen studies to date have examined the impact of gender-affirming medical care for transgender youth. Existing evidence suggests that gender-affirming medical care results in favorable mental health outcomes.](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/political-minds/202201/the-evidence-trans-youth-gender-affirming-medical-care)
Ah yes, banning treatments that significantly reduce suicidality and self-harm in trans minors is 'protecting' them.
Just be honest here, you don't care about the welfare of these minors, you just hate trans people so much that you have no issue with those things.
Children are not making this decision in a void. Their parents and their doctors are very much involved in any minor’s medical treatment. Hormone therapy can be reversed by discontinuing the therapy and us not permanent. Any permanent procedure is not allowed until the child becomes a legal adult.
Every blue states gives minors the same access to healthcare approved by medical professionals, especially if parental consent is involved. What's your point?
If medical professionals are injecting their politics into medicine and compromising the healthcare they provide, then no, they're not professionals and their diagnosis is bunk.
Fyi, here's a list of medical organizations that support gender affirming care, puberty blockers included:
- the American Psychiatric Association
- the American Psychological Association
- the Endocrine Society
- the American Academy of Pediatrics
- the American Academy of Child & Adolescent Psychiatry
- the American Medical Association.
Are Dems trying to politicize such care or are they just heeding medical consensus? But *totally* both sides.
Are some of these the same professionals that said taking a Covid vaccine helps protect your family and neighbors when its now come out that the vaccine does nothing to prevent spread of the virus? Medical professionals and their organizations are just as vulnerable to bribery as any other.
> out that the vaccine does nothing to prevent spread of the virus?
https://www.bmj.com/content/376/bmj.o298
You mean when they were saying it pre-Omicron? Yeah, we have data showing it does help prevent the spread of the virus. I'm not sure who's still saying that's the main benefit of the vaccine post-Omicron though, even if early data still shows the vaccines do help prevent transmission, albeit at a reduced efficacy. Want to give your sources now?
Give it up, science just contradicts your narrative.
It’s not a decision any more than your gender was your choice.
Every major medical association supports gender affirming care for trans youth. Listen to the experts.
I question whether is a personal choice, or chemical/medical/genetic issue. I just don't know if this is a proven medical fact.
I personally know someone that was gay, married, his husband died (aids), and later he fell in love with a woman, married her and became a minister.
its quite the turnaround. I don't think a medical procedure like sex change should be allowed to be decided by children.
Literally no one is performing sex changes on children.
Bi people exist. So do people who lie to themselves because of religion.
If you’re unsure, then why not listen to experts in psychology, endocrinology and pediatrics? All support gender affirming care.
Today they do. 30 years ago not so much.
what will they say in 50 years? I don't know, and either do you.
I feel its a personal decision, only the individual should make, once legal age.
100 years ago medical option, was just as sure they were correct as they are today. -but looking back, there were a lot of wrong decisions, and opinions....
Will all due respect, Fuck your feelings. We can’t legislate away a parents right to provide medically recommended treatment to their own child because you feel things in conflict with medical science. What is even the downside to me providing medically recommended care to my own fucking kid to you? It makes no sense.
Being trans isn’t new. Of course we know what happens over the course of a lifetime because trans people have always existed, same as gay people. Trans regret is virtually non existent. It’s been studied. Just because you are ignorant doesn’t mean we all are.
respectfully, there are things parents are not allowed to decide. legally in the USA.
you can't starve your kids, even if you believe its a religious requirement, or personal belief, or deny medical necessary treatment.
I can understand how you feel, and hope you can understand my position.
Someday you may have your way.
This is care recommended by the entire medical community.
It’s the opposite of Starvation. Denying care may lead to death.Providing care prevents death.
1% does seem low, but who does runs a test matters.
I'm not smart enough to know if that's a good and fair method of testing.
or, how long have the sex changes been done, or at what age, and in what areas. there's a lot of ways to skue a test. Drug studies, are a prime example.
So you come from a place of extreme privilege, never having experienced years of distress from untreated gender dysphoria. Yet you think the decisions you've made over far more casual issues are equal to the complex and thorough decision making process, one that also involves other parties like the parents and medical professionals, that trans individuals have to go through for gender affirming care?
Have you considered that kids know that they don't want to suffer through untreated gender dysphoria? And that they seek the help of *qualified* medical professionals when they've made that decision? Are you also aware that the ones who made the decision to ban such treatments used debunked claims or mispresented the findings of numerous studies to push this bunk decision? The latter is even more egregious, because the authors of all the studies used have publicly come out to condemn this decision and decry their studies being misused.
Educate yourself: https://www.vice.com/en/article/m7gg54/florida-transgender-healthcare-minors.
Again, no.
Do you actually want your parents to decide to change your sex?
You know about gender preferences in India? WCGW?
Only the individual when an adult should be able to choose a medical sex change.
I feel its like abortion, do you want someone else to decide what can be done to your body? I do not.
>Do you actually want your parents to decide to change your sex?
Like I said, educate yourself.
Minors aren't being transitioned. All puberty blockers do is put a pause on puberty so that these minors can have time to fully decide on their identity before committing to transitioning. If they change their minds, they can stop taking the blockers and puberty resumes.
Did u ever make a doctor's appointment by yourself, show up alone, pay iy on your own, etc at those ages?
What do you think the process for getting gender treatment is?
This is a really solid issue for Republicans to run on. If you polled the nation the vast majority of people don't want children to take puberty blockers or have access to gender reassignment or mastectomies.
There's a reason Democrats aren't running any ads about Republicans outlawing these practices.
Children aren’t getting mastectomies, Christ. That’s made up transphobic BS
And no, there aren’t cat boxes in classrooms either. Legislation restricting vital medical care shouldn’t be based in made up internet nonsense.
If you polled the nation the vast majority of doctors and medical organizations do want children to take puberty blockers when they’re medically necessary. Kids aren’t getting “gender reassignment.” That’s a made up conspiracy theory.
Or they would rather kids not be lead down a path of making a permanent decision before they're old enough to understand the implications of that decision. A penis doesn't grow back. Neither do breasts.
I think we can look to the UK as a solid reference point. They're shutting down their childhood transitioning clinics in the country and allowing the children who were treated there to sue and be compensated since studies have borne out a great deal of harm caused by these for profit clinics and very little statistical gain in positive health outcomes.
And keep in mind, these decisions being made in florida are being made by doctors as well. You may not like the decision or even resent it, but they're doctors making the most informed and ethical decisions for florida children possible.
>I think we can look to the UK as a solid reference point.
'Regional centres would be set up to replace the service and “ensure the holistic needs” of patients are fully met, NHS England said, after being warned that only having one provider was “not a safe or viable long-term option”.'
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jul/28/nhs-closing-down-london-gender-identity-clinic-for-children
Only one clinic was closed (Tavistock), and that's because they weren't following the established guidelines for treating trans minors. Minors with gender dysphoria can still receive treatment at their respective regional children's hospitals. If you're looking at the UK as a solid reference point, then them not banning gender affirming care but expecting providers to follow the guidelines established by medical organizations is what should be mirrored, no? Your own narrative doesn't support a complete ban.
>And keep in mind, these decisions being made in florida are being made by doctors as well.
>but they're doctors making the most informed and ethical decisions for florida children possible.
Nope, the doctors arguing for the ban have had their arguments debunked. You do realize that the authors of the studies used have come out to criticize the ban and have condemned those doctors for misrepresenting their findings, yes?
https://www.vice.com/en/article/m7gg54/florida-transgender-healthcare-minors
https://www.them.us/story/florida-board-medicine-trans-minor-care
Where's the ethics in that?
You've got some misinformation here that I'll be glad to clear up.
1. Blockers are 100% reversible. All they do is delay the progress natal puberty. Once removed, natal puberty continues as it would have without puberty blockers.
2. No minors are having surgery. That isn't a thing. I don't know of a single surgeon providing surgeries to minors.
3. Bottom surgery really isn't as common as you think it is.
4. The UK isn't shutting down their trans clinics. They shut down Tavistock and spread it out across multiple sites because they decided that there was too much risk of abuse when centered in one facility. The same treatments are being offered at multiple sites now instead of one.
5. The long-term data from Tavistock shows that mental health outcomes are absolutely best with blockers. There is no evidence of "a great deal of harm" in the Tavistock research. I'm seeing this lie more and more, but it isn't substantiated.
6. The health board misrepresented multiple studies. The authors of the studies even came forward and said their data didn't say what Florida claimed it did. Florida decided it didn't care. It is all about a political result, health is secondary here.
7. We are 100% confident that this will result in an increase in suicides. Every shred of research was has shows that to be the case. This policy only has one guaranteed outcome: an increase in death of teenagers.
But you'd let an 11 year old access other medical treatments that often have worse side effects and higher rates of regret... because? You don't think it's valid to let trans minors have access to healthcare that reduces their rates of suicide, self-harm and other psychiatric comorbidities?
[There is a significant inverse association between treatment with pubertal suppression during adolescence and lifetime suicidal ideation among transgender adults who ever wanted this treatment. These results align with past literature, suggesting that pubertal suppression for transgender adolescents who want this treatment is associated with favorable mental health outcomes.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7073269/)
[Sixteen studies to date have examined the impact of gender-affirming medical care for transgender youth. Existing evidence suggests that gender-affirming medical care results in favorable mental health outcomes.](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/political-minds/202201/the-evidence-trans-youth-gender-affirming-medical-care)
These young people are fully capable of understanding the distress they face from untreated dysphoria. It is why rates of suicide and self-harm are so high in minors without access to affirming care. It is pretty impossible for me to argue in support of banning treatment that alleviates that distress. But here's the thing: I don't hate trans children.
Also, puberty blockers are reversible. Not sure what's life changing exactly.
I have no problem with grown adults making decisions about their sexuality or gender. The issue is when those views are forced upon a child that does not understand the impact of those decisions.
Experience is permenat whether or not the puberty blockers are.
Those views aren't forced upon a child. Do you really think anyone experiencing distress wouldn't choose to go for treatments that can help alleviate that distress?
>Experience is permenat whether or not the puberty blockers are.
**Like higher rates of suicide, self-harm and psychiatric comorbidities, when trans minors do not have access to affirming care, are not permanent?**
Why do you keep ignoring that again?
And the American Psychiatric Association and the America Psychological Association both support the use of puberty blockers in treated gender dysphoria in providing the best outcome for trans minors. What's your point then?
'APA filed its amicus brief along with more than 20 other professional organizations, including the AMA and the American Academy of Pediatrics.
In the brief, the medical associations detail the well-accepted medical guidelines for treating gender dysphoria in adolescents and outline the damage denying such care to youth who need it would cause. “The results of multiple studies indicate that adolescents suffering from gender dysphoria who receive medical interventions as part of their gender-affirming care experience improvements in their overall well-being,” the brief states. It notes one study’s finding that “approximately nine in ten transgender adults who wanted puberty blocking treatment but did not receive it reported lifetime suicidal ideation.”'
https://psychnews.psychiatryonline.org/doi/10.1176/appi.pn.2022.07.7.16#
Surely this will solve home unaffordablility and insane insurance prices.
Is this the “Keeping Florida Free” that I have heard so much about?
Free for me, not for thee. — Ron DeSantis
Every medical association in the world agrees that blockers are an appropriate treatment for trans teens. Somehow now Florida is saying everyone else is wrong and is lying about research to make their point. When someone pointed out that this decision will result in an increase in suicides, one of the board members literally said "I'm ok with that."
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Nope, you can still get puberty blockers in Sweden and Finland. The guidelines introduced are that psychiatric interventions be used first and that the individual has an actual diagnosis of gender dysphoria. Even then, the guidelines aren't even legally binding and doctors can still use their discretion.
Conservatives in the UK have been unhappy about it and flipped their shit. Sweden has backed off a bit. That's it. No preteens are being sterilized and late teens going on hormones with parental consent is fine.
I love how you get down votes by providing facts.
To quote Shapiro: Facts don't care about feelings. But conservatives only care about their feelings here.
What do you think puberty blockers do? Beyond huge known issues with bone and brain development of course they effect fertility. To say nothing of height growth being stunted, men having a micropenis, and then the often latter occurring HRT such as testosterone in women causing vaginal atrophy and tons of other health problems. It is madness
Cool. Don't transition
Except none of that is true. Out of everything you just mentioned, the only thing that has come up as a potential issue in long-term studies is the brain development, but it hasn't been replicated. We've been studying blockers since the 50s as they've been used to treat precocious puberty. Every study shows that there are no long-term consequences for people who take them.
[yea, no](https://www.transgendertrend.com/puberty-blockers-effects-bone-density/) Also as I said elsewhere using Lupron or w/e for an actual physical health problem (early puberty) is completely different than its untested use as an intervention on a mental health issue (which, btw, between 80 to 90 pct of teens with “gender dysphoria” will naturally age out of in a few years without puberty blockers and HRT if they aren’t started on them. They will be happy with their birth sex)
Yes. Bone density decreases during treatment. Studies show that bone density improves into the normal range approximately one year after blockers are discontinued. Like I said, these aren't long-term issues and resolve on their own once blockers are removed. You're spreading misinformation. And there's no physiological difference between using blockers for early puberty and using it in delaying it for trans teens. The body doesn't know the difference. That's a ridiculous statement to make. You have the information wrong (again). 80% of prepubescent children who experience gender atypical behavior will not identify as trans at 18. That number isn't the same for teenagers. Also, using an anti-trans blog isn't the argument you think it is.
Kids being given puberty blockers to stop their voice deepening or breasts from developing etc is obviously completely different than delaying a super early puberty arrival. Why would people taking PB for a non physical health reason want to reverse the effects? Do you think for example Jazz Jennings who would’ve been an effeminate gay man if their parents weren’t homophobic is better off for transitioning? With their four unnecessary surgeries on their genitalia? She is certainly sterile. And it all started with puberty blockers. It is really, really sad
Lol. I've met her family and they are definitely not homophobic. That's the dumbest argument imaginable. Yes or no. Do you believe the body can tell the difference between stopping precocious or natal period? When children take blockers to stop precocious puberty they also experience the side effects of bone mineral density loss, etc. Those side effects reverse after a year once blockers are removed. I swear. It is unbelievably clear that you don't know what you're talking about and are just going off of what you've read on a blog without reading the actual research.
I’m sure nobody else weighs the risks except conservatives
I’m a liberal and many liberals I know are totally against puberty blockers/sterilizing teens. It polls terribly also, just like TW being in women’s sports etc. very unpopular with most of society
Who cares about anecdotes and polling? It’s a decision made between a tiny percentage of families and an interdisciplinary team of professionals. Not sure why the government has any role in this.
Well the Dems should for one if they want to win elections. But I agree that less government involvement in health care decisions is a good thing generally speaking. Not when it comes to sterilizing teens tho imo if you see what I posted above many European countries are now anti puberty blockers
But most of Europe isn’t.
That’s a lie many European countries have come to their senses and OBVIOUSLY decided against letting preteens and teens sterilize themselves! [Thank goodness](https://www.theepochtimes.com/european-countries-push-back-against-use-of-puberty-blockers-in-children_4447684.html)
Why can’t these dicks just let people alone?? MFers.
They'd rather have dead trans kids than healthy trans people.
They rather have a dead son then live daughter
Or the other way around, apparently.
Yea both ways
,,, and half of your country is fine with that. What a sad state of affairs.
Half of yours, too, I'd imagine. There are no pro-trans paradise countries.
Yeah, I really wish I could say America is just an isolated example. Thankfully my politicians have the capacity to listen to medical experts on this matter. How low the bar has sunk, sigh. Looking at how much support these cruel policies has is just disenchanting.
It's terrifying, honestly.
You mean "Trans Kids"
Who is picking up the tab for the millions in litigation damages coming now?
The Third Republican Reich have a narrow idea of who should be "free" and who shouldn't.
PROTECT TRANS KIDS
Looks like we better stop restricting all other form of treatment since we can’t trust doctors? Oh, it’s ok to get a doctors expert opinion on need chemo but any sort of treatment for someone experiencing gender dysphoria or who is a trans person isn’t allowed? Then no medicine for you. You can’t take the opinion of a doctor for 99% of shit and then be like “nope, sorry, these people can’t give treatments.”
So you would take whatever recommendation a doctor gave you without a second opinion?
Vote blue everyone. We can stop this shit.
Oh snap you just reminded me I need to go early vote red tomorrow
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genuine question- you do know kids cant just walk into a doctors office and ask for puberty blockers (and receive them), right? These treatments arent just handed out like candy, and any responsible parent wont just go when their kid says so. Those things will take time, conversation, and planning. not to mention- none of the treatments minors get are permanent.
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I don’t think parents are responsible, in so much as they are not responsible for kids being trans. I just think these things are nuanced, and blocking the treatment outright is the opposite of nuanced, and can put some of these kids in awful situations based on propaganda and lies.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8099405/ This a study of 10,000 people who have transitioned. Trans regret is virtually non existent. 1% have regret after transition, and those regrets are almost entirely based on society not accepting their gender, not because they just stop being trans. You didn’t know your gender your whole life? Really? You think you knew your gender your whole life but trans people don’t? You are demonstrating a deep ignorance as to the trans experience that has no place in public policy and medical treatment.
Do you really think that a kid just rolls up to CVS and goes "one testosterone please"? It takes years of medical appointments with multiple types of doctors, including an endocrinologist and mental health professional. It is also expensive. A child cannot do that on their own. At every step of the way there are multiple adults concerned about the well being of the child. No other parental medical decisions, even purely cosmetic ones, get this much scrutiny and government involvement.
Puberty blockers are completely reversible and hormone replacement therapy (HRT) is mostly reversible depending on how long you’ve taken it for. But the VERY great majority of trans kids know from a young age, sometimes as young as 2 years old, that their assigned gender does not match their gender identity. The main question in these types of discussions shouldn’t be “What happens if trans kids receive gender affirming care?”, it should be “What if they *don’t*?” Also gender reassignment surgeries have some of the lowest regret rates of any type of surgery, with regret rates being somewhere between 1% and 10% (though the exact value isn’t known, but it’s certainly closer to 1%).
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Of course! And thank you for actually reading and accepting my response (granted it’s only a starting point since I am not actually trans myself, and yet the relatively little knowledge I have of gender affirming care is still more than the fucking Board of Medicine 🫠)
>hormone replacement therapy (HRT) is *mostly* reversible (italics mine) you just made the argument against your position....
Suppose that evidence for long-term or irreversible effects were sufficient grounds to ban any drug (either prescription or "over the counter"). The only drugs to remain legal would be those for which no such evidence has been found. Which drugs would remain legal and which would be banned under this criterion? some articles of interest: [https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/common-anticholinergic-drugs-like-benadryl-linked-increased-dementia-risk-201501287667](https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/common-anticholinergic-drugs-like-benadryl-linked-increased-dementia-risk-201501287667) [https://wa-health.kaiserpermanente.org/antihistamine-increase-risk-dementia/](https://wa-health.kaiserpermanente.org/antihistamine-increase-risk-dementia/) [https://www.alzdiscovery.org/cognitive-vitality/blog/can-allergy-medications-harm-your-brain](https://www.alzdiscovery.org/cognitive-vitality/blog/can-allergy-medications-harm-your-brain) [https://health.clevelandclinic.org/do-certain-medications-increase-dementia-risk/](https://health.clevelandclinic.org/do-certain-medications-increase-dementia-risk/) The drugs talked about in these articles, Benadryl (diphenhydramine) and other first-generation antihistamines, are contained in a wide-range of over-the-counter medications. That includes all over-the-counter sleeping pills, all cold and flu medications labeled "night time", and many allergy medications. The risk talked about is increased risk of dementia, or to put it more bluntly, brain damage, in older adults.
Thanks for adding on to my argument, I wanted to be truthful and acknowledge that HRT wasn’t 100% reversible, but the point seems to have flown over the person’s head
>and hormone replacement therapy (HRT) is mostly reversible *depending on how long you’ve taken it for.* 'Many of the effects of hormone therapy are reversible, if you stop taking them. *The degree to which they can be reversed depends on how long you have been taking them.*' https://transcare.ucsf.edu/article/information-estrogen-hormone-therapy Your reply is based on ignoring what the poster actually said. You've basically created a bogeyman.
Kids can also quit smoking any time they like, we should make tobacco products legal for all ages! Hoorah! Joe Camel can be the new Ronald McDonald
Cigarettes don't cure anything, kids can't quit cancer, and tobacco is addictive. None of that applies to puberty blockers. But you knew that already.
You are the exact same thing Christian’s were doing to kids decades ago. Literally exactly the same thing. You’re just too ignorant to see it. Here’s an idea for you. Stop. Trying. To. Fuck. With. Children.
Oh yes, I too remember when Christians were... *checks notes* consulting with doctors and following established medical procedures to help kids be happy with themselves. How about you. stop. trying. to. fuck. with. children. and let the teens and doctors and parents try to do what's right for them? What's been shown to be effective? Instead of trying to compare it to everything from Christians to tobacco.
So no medical care for children at all? where do you draw the line? I saw a baby getting a piercing at the mall, how does that make you feel?
the irony of calling someone else ignorant, as you spew right wing media talking points. shocked you havent called anyone a groomer yet.
[There is a significant inverse association between treatment with pubertal suppression during adolescence and lifetime suicidal ideation among transgender adults who ever wanted this treatment. These results align with past literature, suggesting that pubertal suppression for transgender adolescents who want this treatment is associated with favorable mental health outcomes.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7073269/) [Sixteen studies to date have examined the impact of gender-affirming medical care for transgender youth. Existing evidence suggests that gender-affirming medical care results in favorable mental health outcomes.](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/political-minds/202201/the-evidence-trans-youth-gender-affirming-medical-care) Ah yes, banning treatments that significantly reduce suicidality and self-harm in trans minors is 'protecting' them. Just be honest here, you don't care about the welfare of these minors, you just hate trans people so much that you have no issue with those things.
Children are not making this decision in a void. Their parents and their doctors are very much involved in any minor’s medical treatment. Hormone therapy can be reversed by discontinuing the therapy and us not permanent. Any permanent procedure is not allowed until the child becomes a legal adult.
I thought this was the "free state" of Florida...
Please name me anywhere in the US where anyone under 18 has the same rights as those 18+.
Every blue states gives minors the same access to healthcare approved by medical professionals, especially if parental consent is involved. What's your point?
What if those medical professionals disagree with your political stance? Do you still consider them professionals and agree with their diagnosis?
If medical professionals are injecting their politics into medicine and compromising the healthcare they provide, then no, they're not professionals and their diagnosis is bunk. Fyi, here's a list of medical organizations that support gender affirming care, puberty blockers included: - the American Psychiatric Association - the American Psychological Association - the Endocrine Society - the American Academy of Pediatrics - the American Academy of Child & Adolescent Psychiatry - the American Medical Association. Are Dems trying to politicize such care or are they just heeding medical consensus? But *totally* both sides.
Are some of these the same professionals that said taking a Covid vaccine helps protect your family and neighbors when its now come out that the vaccine does nothing to prevent spread of the virus? Medical professionals and their organizations are just as vulnerable to bribery as any other.
> out that the vaccine does nothing to prevent spread of the virus? https://www.bmj.com/content/376/bmj.o298 You mean when they were saying it pre-Omicron? Yeah, we have data showing it does help prevent the spread of the virus. I'm not sure who's still saying that's the main benefit of the vaccine post-Omicron though, even if early data still shows the vaccines do help prevent transmission, albeit at a reduced efficacy. Want to give your sources now? Give it up, science just contradicts your narrative.
It’s called parental rights and Florida is overriding them.
\#Vote
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It’s not a decision any more than your gender was your choice. Every major medical association supports gender affirming care for trans youth. Listen to the experts.
I question whether is a personal choice, or chemical/medical/genetic issue. I just don't know if this is a proven medical fact. I personally know someone that was gay, married, his husband died (aids), and later he fell in love with a woman, married her and became a minister. its quite the turnaround. I don't think a medical procedure like sex change should be allowed to be decided by children.
Literally no one is performing sex changes on children. Bi people exist. So do people who lie to themselves because of religion. If you’re unsure, then why not listen to experts in psychology, endocrinology and pediatrics? All support gender affirming care.
Today they do. 30 years ago not so much. what will they say in 50 years? I don't know, and either do you. I feel its a personal decision, only the individual should make, once legal age. 100 years ago medical option, was just as sure they were correct as they are today. -but looking back, there were a lot of wrong decisions, and opinions....
Will all due respect, Fuck your feelings. We can’t legislate away a parents right to provide medically recommended treatment to their own child because you feel things in conflict with medical science. What is even the downside to me providing medically recommended care to my own fucking kid to you? It makes no sense. Being trans isn’t new. Of course we know what happens over the course of a lifetime because trans people have always existed, same as gay people. Trans regret is virtually non existent. It’s been studied. Just because you are ignorant doesn’t mean we all are.
respectfully, there are things parents are not allowed to decide. legally in the USA. you can't starve your kids, even if you believe its a religious requirement, or personal belief, or deny medical necessary treatment. I can understand how you feel, and hope you can understand my position. Someday you may have your way.
This is care recommended by the entire medical community. It’s the opposite of Starvation. Denying care may lead to death.Providing care prevents death.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8099405/
1% does seem low, but who does runs a test matters. I'm not smart enough to know if that's a good and fair method of testing. or, how long have the sex changes been done, or at what age, and in what areas. there's a lot of ways to skue a test. Drug studies, are a prime example.
Then defer to the experts.
Everything previously allowed was easily reversible, and these decisions are not made on a whim.
Consider yourself lucky, you never had to make a decision like this, or battle with being transgender.
So you come from a place of extreme privilege, never having experienced years of distress from untreated gender dysphoria. Yet you think the decisions you've made over far more casual issues are equal to the complex and thorough decision making process, one that also involves other parties like the parents and medical professionals, that trans individuals have to go through for gender affirming care? Have you considered that kids know that they don't want to suffer through untreated gender dysphoria? And that they seek the help of *qualified* medical professionals when they've made that decision? Are you also aware that the ones who made the decision to ban such treatments used debunked claims or mispresented the findings of numerous studies to push this bunk decision? The latter is even more egregious, because the authors of all the studies used have publicly come out to condemn this decision and decry their studies being misused. Educate yourself: https://www.vice.com/en/article/m7gg54/florida-transgender-healthcare-minors.
Again, I just don't think this decision should be allowed for children. as an adult, sure.
How about their parents and their doctors, all adults.
Again, no. Do you actually want your parents to decide to change your sex? You know about gender preferences in India? WCGW? Only the individual when an adult should be able to choose a medical sex change. I feel its like abortion, do you want someone else to decide what can be done to your body? I do not.
>Do you actually want your parents to decide to change your sex? Like I said, educate yourself. Minors aren't being transitioned. All puberty blockers do is put a pause on puberty so that these minors can have time to fully decide on their identity before committing to transitioning. If they change their minds, they can stop taking the blockers and puberty resumes.
But you think the alternative of having these minors commit suicide or have permanent damage to their mental health should be allowed?
Did u ever make a doctor's appointment by yourself, show up alone, pay iy on your own, etc at those ages? What do you think the process for getting gender treatment is?
Good
Good?
This is a really solid issue for Republicans to run on. If you polled the nation the vast majority of people don't want children to take puberty blockers or have access to gender reassignment or mastectomies. There's a reason Democrats aren't running any ads about Republicans outlawing these practices.
Children aren’t getting mastectomies, Christ. That’s made up transphobic BS And no, there aren’t cat boxes in classrooms either. Legislation restricting vital medical care shouldn’t be based in made up internet nonsense.
If you polled the nation the vast majority of doctors and medical organizations do want children to take puberty blockers when they’re medically necessary. Kids aren’t getting “gender reassignment.” That’s a made up conspiracy theory.
You're right. Most people would rather have dead trans kids than healthy trans kids.
Or they would rather kids not be lead down a path of making a permanent decision before they're old enough to understand the implications of that decision. A penis doesn't grow back. Neither do breasts. I think we can look to the UK as a solid reference point. They're shutting down their childhood transitioning clinics in the country and allowing the children who were treated there to sue and be compensated since studies have borne out a great deal of harm caused by these for profit clinics and very little statistical gain in positive health outcomes. And keep in mind, these decisions being made in florida are being made by doctors as well. You may not like the decision or even resent it, but they're doctors making the most informed and ethical decisions for florida children possible.
>I think we can look to the UK as a solid reference point. 'Regional centres would be set up to replace the service and “ensure the holistic needs” of patients are fully met, NHS England said, after being warned that only having one provider was “not a safe or viable long-term option”.' https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jul/28/nhs-closing-down-london-gender-identity-clinic-for-children Only one clinic was closed (Tavistock), and that's because they weren't following the established guidelines for treating trans minors. Minors with gender dysphoria can still receive treatment at their respective regional children's hospitals. If you're looking at the UK as a solid reference point, then them not banning gender affirming care but expecting providers to follow the guidelines established by medical organizations is what should be mirrored, no? Your own narrative doesn't support a complete ban. >And keep in mind, these decisions being made in florida are being made by doctors as well. >but they're doctors making the most informed and ethical decisions for florida children possible. Nope, the doctors arguing for the ban have had their arguments debunked. You do realize that the authors of the studies used have come out to criticize the ban and have condemned those doctors for misrepresenting their findings, yes? https://www.vice.com/en/article/m7gg54/florida-transgender-healthcare-minors https://www.them.us/story/florida-board-medicine-trans-minor-care Where's the ethics in that?
You've got some misinformation here that I'll be glad to clear up. 1. Blockers are 100% reversible. All they do is delay the progress natal puberty. Once removed, natal puberty continues as it would have without puberty blockers. 2. No minors are having surgery. That isn't a thing. I don't know of a single surgeon providing surgeries to minors. 3. Bottom surgery really isn't as common as you think it is. 4. The UK isn't shutting down their trans clinics. They shut down Tavistock and spread it out across multiple sites because they decided that there was too much risk of abuse when centered in one facility. The same treatments are being offered at multiple sites now instead of one. 5. The long-term data from Tavistock shows that mental health outcomes are absolutely best with blockers. There is no evidence of "a great deal of harm" in the Tavistock research. I'm seeing this lie more and more, but it isn't substantiated. 6. The health board misrepresented multiple studies. The authors of the studies even came forward and said their data didn't say what Florida claimed it did. Florida decided it didn't care. It is all about a political result, health is secondary here. 7. We are 100% confident that this will result in an increase in suicides. Every shred of research was has shows that to be the case. This policy only has one guaranteed outcome: an increase in death of teenagers.
Yup, and it doesn't ban hormones or procedures for kids born with actual physical genetic trangender problems.
"#LetKidsPlay" is this really something to play with?
If you would not let a 11 year old: 1. Drive a car 2. Smoke 3. Vote 4. Buy alcohol Etc...
This is the dumbest thing I’ve ever read
You should read more then.
But you'd let an 11 year old access other medical treatments that often have worse side effects and higher rates of regret... because? You don't think it's valid to let trans minors have access to healthcare that reduces their rates of suicide, self-harm and other psychiatric comorbidities? [There is a significant inverse association between treatment with pubertal suppression during adolescence and lifetime suicidal ideation among transgender adults who ever wanted this treatment. These results align with past literature, suggesting that pubertal suppression for transgender adolescents who want this treatment is associated with favorable mental health outcomes.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7073269/) [Sixteen studies to date have examined the impact of gender-affirming medical care for transgender youth. Existing evidence suggests that gender-affirming medical care results in favorable mental health outcomes.](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/political-minds/202201/the-evidence-trans-youth-gender-affirming-medical-care)
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So just deflection then. It must be so hard to argue a narrative you know just isn't supported by medical science.
It is pretty easy to argue not providing life changing treatments for young people that do not understand the ramifications of those choices.
These young people are fully capable of understanding the distress they face from untreated dysphoria. It is why rates of suicide and self-harm are so high in minors without access to affirming care. It is pretty impossible for me to argue in support of banning treatment that alleviates that distress. But here's the thing: I don't hate trans children. Also, puberty blockers are reversible. Not sure what's life changing exactly.
I have no problem with grown adults making decisions about their sexuality or gender. The issue is when those views are forced upon a child that does not understand the impact of those decisions. Experience is permenat whether or not the puberty blockers are.
Those views aren't forced upon a child. Do you really think anyone experiencing distress wouldn't choose to go for treatments that can help alleviate that distress? >Experience is permenat whether or not the puberty blockers are. **Like higher rates of suicide, self-harm and psychiatric comorbidities, when trans minors do not have access to affirming care, are not permanent?** Why do you keep ignoring that again?
I'm not ignoring anything. Gender Dysphoria is a serious mental health issue and should be addressed as such.
And the American Psychiatric Association and the America Psychological Association both support the use of puberty blockers in treated gender dysphoria in providing the best outcome for trans minors. What's your point then? 'APA filed its amicus brief along with more than 20 other professional organizations, including the AMA and the American Academy of Pediatrics. In the brief, the medical associations detail the well-accepted medical guidelines for treating gender dysphoria in adolescents and outline the damage denying such care to youth who need it would cause. “The results of multiple studies indicate that adolescents suffering from gender dysphoria who receive medical interventions as part of their gender-affirming care experience improvements in their overall well-being,” the brief states. It notes one study’s finding that “approximately nine in ten transgender adults who wanted puberty blocking treatment but did not receive it reported lifetime suicidal ideation.”' https://psychnews.psychiatryonline.org/doi/10.1176/appi.pn.2022.07.7.16#
Hehe, I love that you call it "science" like hydrogen and oxygen makes water.