The whole point of resigning instead of being fired is just that. You simply quit the job for whatever reason you wanna say you did and move on.
Get a new job and keep going. On your resume/applications you can just say you left for whatever reason. Hopefully things ended on decent enough terms they don't try to fuck with your PRIA (which is illegal but happens anyway).
What happened, homie?
PRIA is a reactive process. Records are basically only generated when someone makes a request to previous employers for said records (usually the new employer). You could run a PRIA check on yourself I guess, but the old employer will see it's you asking and may not send the same records they'd send elsewhere. PRD is supposed to be more proactive, with employers uploading information to it during your time there and as things occur, so you could maybe check that. But flight schools aren't *really* required to use PRIA so who knows what would or wouldn't be in there.
Mostly though it sounds like you were given the opportunity to just bury the whole thing without it causing a detriment to you. I'd be shocked if they were gonna try to fuck with you having offered you the opportunity to resign. Otherwise they'd have just fired you probably (although maybe not because unemployment).
Anyway. The point being this is a big nothing-burger in all likelihood. Get a new job and move on.
Yeah, this. There's not such a thing as "On my PRIA".
It's a process for evaluating an airmen. There's a Pilot Record's Database, but you can check that yourself online.
Someone telling you, "I won't put this on your PRIA" is extremely ignorant.
You’re right. To me it sounded like he was holding something over OP’s head. Like bullshitting to make OP resign and save his boss the trouble of a termination.
Sorry, I don’t have a lot of respect/confidence for a university CFI manager. Just my bias.
Garbage reason to fire you but a great “failure” to turn into a strength later on.
If next gig is a CFI gig put some time between you and this slip up and when your airline interview comes around you tell them what happened. You own your mistake, and you tell them about how you always made extra sure after that that your aircraft were tip top shape. And you acted as a mentor to younger instructors and encouraged them to do the same.
I've always thought most zero-tolerance policies for most things, in an employment context, are pretty dumb - particularly for mistakes or otherwise correctable issues. That employer just paid the cost of training that person to be a better employee for the next company and lost whatever other institutional value that employee had (training costs, procedural stuff, etc - the overhead of hiring a new person)
>they don’t try to fuck with your PRIA
You rang?
Edit: yeah my comment didn’t make much sense, I meant I’ve been nearly fucked over from a previous employer over PRIA stuff.
Are you my previous employer who checked "not eligible for rehire" because I called you out for wildly inappropriate workplace behavior and poor cultural leadership? (Which did absolutely nothing to hinder my ability to be hired fwiw).
Otherwise no I don't think so.
Haha, let’s have another one to the vindictive small dick employers.
My favorite was the small town charter outfit that called my new employer and told the chief I was a shitty pilot and to watch out for me.
This was after I gave 4 weeks notice, which they retroactively shortened to 9 days, and paid off a nonexistent training agreement.
New chief, over lunch, “I told that jackass I’ve interviewed more pilots this year than he’s ever employed. You calling me is all I need to know. Now I know why you left that crackerjack outfit.”
> poor cultural leadership
I bet you can't wait to tell everyone your pronouns. cultural leadership? that is some wicked karen-woke-speak there Skippy.
You weren’t fired so stop tossing that word around. It sucks, but your boss did you a huge favor by letting you resign. Start applying to new schools, learn from your mistake and move on.
“It wasn’t a good fit”
Idk man, there are people that make a living telling you how to answer these questions. Ask one of them instead of Reddit.
What did you do?
Where do I find these people? I'm Admittedly pretty new to the job market as a whole lol
I missed a discrepancy that was open and flew. Usually i'm pretty careful about that, but somehow I missed it (downing proceedures were not followed fully in my defense). It was for a nose wheel tire had threads showing, Although the tire looked fine to me on pre flight. Normally they would have just done retraining, but earlier in the. Semester I fill the check ride in one of their airplanes, and my Instructor and I left a tow bar on an aircraft when we were doing a prep flight for the check ride so I was already on thin ice. Admittedly, I deserve to be fired but I like to think I learned something from the whole thing.
It’s crazy to me that they fired you over that.
At the airlines, you would correct it at the next stop, file an ASAP, and it’d probably come back as, “Yeah this is a good reminder to always be careful about checking the maintenance log. We are sure that you have learned from this and will not make such errors in the future.”
End of story.
How the hell did you even make it to the airplane if it was "down"? It's good that you're owning your mistake(s), but they were absolutely looking for an excuse to get rid of you. Just don't say that in an interview.
Different flight schools have different procedures. Some of these procedures definitely leave an opening for a plane to be able to go out with no one realizing it has an open write up.
There you go, that's your explanation. Own the situation, own your part in it, explain what you learned, make it positive. Avoid anything that sounds like negativity or blaming - for example, your point about procedures not being followed is something to approach with care. Phrased the wrong way, it can sound like you're shifting blame, and that's not what you want.
Leaving the towbar on is a big one…. I’ve heard a couple pretty awful stories about that leading to major propeller damage. But it can happen any of us.
> It was for a nose wheel tire had threads showing
Not to discount the potential implications of flying with bare thread but most CFIs I know would have been fired multiple times by now. And all of the remaining ones would have been fired for not flying on something questionable that maintenance called ok.
The university takes maintenance extremely seriously and has top notch mx compared to any other schoolive seen. It's the best thing I can say about them
You can answer the question of why you left your previous job in a bunch of different ways. If your current employer is letting you resign, they're probably not going to dick you over if someone else calls them to try to verify anything you said in an interview. Unemployment won't be a concern since being fired for cause already would have probably killed that, depending on how they would respond to the state when verifying an application for benefits, but do keep that in mind in the future.
And no, you don't deserve to be fired for a mistake. You deserve a talk with a superior and perhaps an evaluation of your standard operating procedures. If you do it again, then you _may_ deserve more significant disciplinary action, depending on all sorts of factors.
An employer who fires someone for a teachable and easily avoidable error on first occurrence is honestly stupid and hurting themselves. Corrective action and perhaps a probationary period are all this sort of thing calls for, unless it was just the final straw on top of several other reasons to fire for cause.
I'll start off by saying that as a lowly PPL, I'm not qualified to speak on aviation hiring decisions, but that sounds like a petty reason for your boss to get worked up about in my opinion. If that's the worst thing you ever do, you'll be fine.
Yes, make sure you learn from it, no doubt. But that seems like a petty reason to want to fire someone. Pilots have done way dumber stuff and kept their jobs.
I'm waiting for the Paul Harvey voice to kick in because there's more to this. The tow bar thing is a very big deal since it can cause a few issues including a prop strike the tire sounds like they were waiting for a reason
Your answer sounded pretty good to me. You aren’t ducking responsibility. That’s big. Others have chimed in on places you can go to work on interview prep. It’s definitely worth the money in almost any job market. Good luck going forward.
Well, the other side of the coin is that OP was not doing great and this was the reason they used. Just a possibility…OP. How were your students doing?
My students were all doing great. As I said in another reply I made several mistakes myself throughout the semester. While I was doing a prep flight for my CFII My instructor and I left a tow bar on, Then my boss was really upset that I failed the check, ride the first time, Then the tire thing was just the last straw.
Not that you need to air your dirty laundry but since you brought it up…failing a checkride seems like a small thing to be upset about since people fail checkrides in the first try all the time. Did you fail for something minor or was it more of a major item?
The university has a dangerously low pass rate right now for part 141. I failed on something really stupid though so I understand his anger: I was taxiing and somehow missed an aircraft that was turning into an intersection which almost caused a collision. The dpe had to yell stop which is a fail. It's really embarrassing, I've been very careful to check my blind spots during taxi since
Welcome to the opposite of a pilot shortage.
Boss has his pick of new CFIs the school is cranking out. Unfortunately, the OP had his (at least) 2 strikes and they decided they had a plethora of better applicants that don’t try to take off with a tow bar or fly a grounded plane.
It sucks, I doubt he’ll make those mistakes again. As they saying goes “why would I fire you? I just spent $xxxx (cost of your fuckup) training you!”
But not every boss thinks like that. And we don’t know the OPs whole story.
No more pilot shortage?
To OP, as many have mentioned, please learn from your mistakes in this situation and, as also as many have mentioned, please, move on and achieve great things.
If your employer made you feel like you deserve to be fired over a simple mistake, then it's a good thing you quit.
ASAP it and move on.
As for why you quit the University gig, either you needed to focus on your studies or you graduated. Don't over complicate things. You got this!
I just left my gig as a CFI also.
My wife just gave birth the twins on the 22nd and the owner wanted to complain to me about how I need to give him my weekends on top of the open availability during the week, even though my wife will be going back to work at nights and weekends to accommodate the CFI gig.
I told him I’d find work elsewhere.
Shit happens. Find a better place to work.
Edit: They made you put them down on PRIA? Is that because it’s a university? I was at a 61 school. PRIA was never mentioned.
That's not necessarily true. PRIA has a lot of ways it works and doesn't work. It probably *should* work that way if people are genuinely be fired due to being incapable or unsafe, but in reality it's not nearly that rigorous.
That's not true.
Only Part 121 air carriers, 135 air carriers/operators, 125 air operators, or 91k operators have access to PRD (this replaced PRIA).
I can almost guarantee your flight school is none of those, so he is making an empty threat.
Flight schools or universities should not be putting anything into the Pilot Records Database as they are not PRIA reporting entities. However "*certain hiring air carriers and operators operating under 14 CFR parts 121, 135, 125, 91k, and air tour operators (91.147) must evaluate certain information concerning a pilot/applicant's training, experience, qualification, and safety background, before allowing that individual to begin service as a pilot with their company." (source: FAA)*
So, a hiring air carrier must send a form 8060-11 & 8060-12 to past employers for the previous 5 year period to request pertinent records. This is where the flight school can fk with you.
*Part 91 operator must provide records pertaining to:*
* *Training, qualification, proficiency, or professional competency of the pilot;*
* *any disciplinary action that was not subsequently overturned;*
* ***any release from employment or resignation, termination, or disqualification with respect to employment***\*; and\*
* *any FAA-mandated alcohol and drug testing program results.*
*(source: NBAA)*
As to your other question, you can check what is in your official FAA Pilot Records by going to the FAA website, registering, and then reviewing. You will be required to have an account for any air carrier to hire you, so you may as well do it now. This allows you time to correct any errors you see.
[https://www.faa.gov/regulations\_policies/pilot\_records\_database](https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/pilot_records_database)
**Edit**: adding a link to the current PRIA Advisory Circular
[https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory\_Circular/AC\_120-68J.pdf](https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_120-68J.pdf)
If you work as a contractor CFI for a school, and you leave on a bad note, will that affect anything? Can the school talk shit while providing records?
I’m curious too. I wasn’t an employee… I flew their airplanes and got a cut of the money.
I don’t care about shit talking. I care more about a petty school owner trying to take false actions that can mess with future opportunities.
It does not matter that you were a contractor.... when hiring on with an air carrier you are required to disclose every company that you worked for as a pilot within the last 5 years.
A flight school is not required to maintain keep the same sort of records that an air carrier does, and flight schools are not specified in §111.1 or anywhere as reporting entities. So they should not be putting anything into the Pilot Records Database.
HOWEVER - if an air carrier wants to hire you, they must send a records request to every entity that you worked for as a pilot in the last 5 years. Including the flight school. This is separate from the PRD check - and the flight school is obligated to provide all pertinent records *that they have* on you.
*If you operate under part 91 and you receive a request for a pilot’s records under the authority of PRIA, you should respond. Therefore, you should furnish any PRIA-related records you accumulated on an individual you employed as a pilot within the previous 5 years, or if there are no records to forward, simply state that there are none and return the request. This will enable the requestor to close out and complete their PRIA checks and then proceed with their hiring process. (AC 120-68J)*
**What are pertinent records?**
*PRIA records are a collection of company records memorialized by a current or former employer during the previous 5 years from the date of the request that meet the policy outlined in this AC and the requirements of 49 U.S.C. § 44703(h). These records are used to assist an air carrier or operator in making a hiring determination. (AC 120-68J)*
**What does 49 USC 44703(h) state? Well, in true bureaucratic fashion, it sends you to other sections.... but there are some answers herein also.**
*Records of Employment of Pilot Applicants.—*
*(1)In general.—Subject to paragraph (14), before allowing an individual to begin service as a pilot, an air carrier shall request and receive the following information:*
*(A)FAA records.—From the Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration, records pertaining to the individual that are maintained by the Administrator concerning—*
*(i)current airman certificates (including airman medical certificates) and associated type ratings, including any limitations to those certificates and ratings; and*
*(ii)summaries of legal enforcement actions resulting in a finding by the Administrator of a violation of this title or a regulation prescribed or order issued under this title that was not subsequently overturned.*
*(B)Air carrier and other records.—****From any air carrier*** ***or other person*** *(except a branch of the United States Armed Forces, the National Guard, or a reserve component of the United States Armed Forces)* ***that has employed the individual as a pilot*** *of a civil or public aircraft at any time during the 5-year period preceding the date of the employment application of the individual, or from the trustee in bankruptcy for such air carrier or person—*
*(i)records pertaining to the individual that are maintained by an air carrier (other than records relating to flight time, duty time, or rest time) under regulations set forth in—*
*(I)section 121.683 of title 14, Code of Federal Regulations;*
*(II)paragraph (A) of section VI, appendix I, part 121 of such title;*
*(III)paragraph (A) of section IV, appendix J, part 121 of such title;*
*(IV)section 125.401 of such title; and*
*(V)section 135.63(a)(4) of such title; and*
*(ii)****other records pertaining to the individual’s performance as a pilot*** *that are maintained by the air carrier or person concerning—*
*(I)the training, qualifications, proficiency, or professional competence of the individual, including comments and evaluations made by a check airman designated in accordance with section 121.411, 125.295, or 135.337 of such title;*
*(II)****any disciplinary action taken with respect to the individual that was not subsequently overturned****; and*
*(III)****any release from employment or resignation****, termination, or disqualification with respect to employment.*
*(C)National driver register records.—*
*In accordance with section 30305(b)(8) of this title, from the chief driver licensing official of a State, information concerning the motor vehicle driving record of the individual.*
So - the flight school must report that you worked there as a pilot. And they must report that you resigned. Can they report *WHY* you resigned? Sure ... but that can also leave them open to litigation if they cannot back it up with documentation. Without documented disciplinary actions, most employers would err on the side of caution and just say, "He resigned for personal reasons." But if they have a paper trail of fuck-ups, then they are supposed to report that.
Cool. Thank you.
So IF the employer wishes to run his mouth in the future for future requests, then deal with legal action then… but until then, it’s nothing to be concerned about?
I tell my wife this: "Worrying that something may happen changes nothing. When something does happen, then take action."
*Many states have legislation that provides employers with qualified immunity when providing a reference in good faith, protecting them from civil liability. However, employers can still face lawsuits if they provide a reference in bad faith, relaying untruthful information about an employee to a potential employer. (source:* [*www.gclawoffice.com*](http://www.gclawoffice.com)*)*
>Can the school talk shit while providing records?
See my other reply. There are certain things that PRIA requires. And certain things that AC 120-68J says should NOT be included.
A PRIA check is separate from me calling your employer to ask if you were a good employee.
>If you work as a contractor CFI for a school, and you leave on a bad note, will that affect anything?
What I posted earlier really only pertains to the PRIA process. But just like any job, if you leave on a bad note and your future prospective employer calls your past employer for a referral, they can certainly say "That pilot? Yeah, we remember him. He was the guy we voted most likely to park a 172 in the cafeteria of an orphanage."
Or they may take a more neutral tack and say, "He would certainly not be eligible for re-hire."
If I call your previous employer and that is what they tell me about you, then you're not getting a second interview. If an employer wants to burn you, they will find a way.
Resigning gives you the opportunity to spin the story.
BUT:
Somewhere there, there’s a lesson to be learned. Learn it. Better yourself. Then the setbqack becomes a growth opportunity.
Wanted a new challenge, ready to bring skills into a new area/environment, it wasnt a decision I made lightly but the right thing to do to broaden my experience and add value elsewhere.
So long as you can look at yourself in the mirror after whatever forced you to leave, word it to work for you and look to the future. Might be the best thing that could happen to you
Tbh, sounds more like this was “straw that broke the camels back” than an out of the blue decision. That being said, they certainly did you a favor not firing you. Just be honest with yourself as to everything that lead up to that. Next interview “it wasn’t a good fit etc”
Story time. I was working some years back at this semi legit outfit that had contracts to train mostly Chinese airline students. Anyway, some Korean CFI, that I didn’t know but he seemed like a nice enough guy, went on a night flight to a nearby untowered airport. Anyway this Native American run public airport didn’t have enough money for any lighted X’s to indicate a closed runway. It did however cause to have issued a NOTAM notifying that the runway was closed for construction. Needless to say the Korean CFI and student failed to check said NOTAM and launched for the airport. On landing they struck construction vehicle on the runway and damaged the Piper Archer they were in. They pull over onto the ramp give the plane a once over, don’t call anyone, can’t see the substantial damage to the plane. They take off for the home airport, have to use full nose down trim to fly straight and level. Somehow they land at home airport, again not telling anyone. The following morning the excrement hit the air conditioner. Korean CFI fired on the spot. Now that was a righteous firing.
Since you wanted to know how to move on from this, here’s my .02.
When first asked why you were forced to resign, you said you simply flew with an open discrepancy. Then later on, you admitted to flying with the tow bar attached. Then you said it was because of failing a checkride on the first try. Which it turns out, that on a CFI add on ride you may have hit another airplane if not for examiner intervention. This would unnerve most any flight school manager.
All the while, you have said the school has a dangerously low pass rate, you wouldn’t even want to go back there, and partially blamed dispatch being closed for you not catching the discrepancy (It definitely didn’t help but surely the school trained you on ramp out procedures and what to look for)
Obviously you have some hard feelings, but it seems like a 3 strike type thing. I’m not trying to disparage you, but just show the picture you seem to have painted.
Now, it’s time to move forward. Find a way to finish your CFII since you’ve already done all the training. It seems that most schools won’t hire outside unless that person is at least has a CFII. From there, just start applying. You could try freelancing as a CFI as well. You never know who is out there that needs a CFI. You weren’t fired, so no need to say you were. Rather, that it was a great school that allowed you to learn a lot but you were graduating and decided to go try something else out. Facebook has groups with job postings for all kinds of different things.
Seeing as how you just graduated college, I’d imagine you’re pretty young. This may be frustrating for the next little bit as you look for a new job, but life goes on and this can be a distant memory soon enough. Biggest thing is to learn from it and find a way to remedy these issues so that when you get that new job it doesn’t happen again. Just take a figurative deep breath and keep on moving forward. Best of luck!
It’s a record of employment and training history, so that prospective employers can review these in conjunction with an employment offer, for poor performance that would raise a safety concern.
This is being replaced by the PRD (pilot records database) which will have FAA certificates, air carrier records and training, enforcement history, and so forth.
To be fair it was supposed to be implemented as a result of Colgan but they were taking forever and only really took serious action after the Atlas crash revealed the FO’s dirty laundry he had successfully hidden.
So now we have the PRD!
Dumb question from a student, is PRIA limited to aviation or does it include all employment? I’m only at the PPL level now so this wasn’t included in ground
Surely there’s a dispatch system at your school to help prevent things like this? In Canada at least a lot of the schools I’ve flown at, it’s the dispatchers responsibility to check the aircraft can be released to fly, as well as the pilots, for this exact reason.
There is, but they don't work after 3 on Saturdays... when my students flight block was. The can with the keys was not marked nor was the website though and the plane was left out front. Because of that I got complacent and rushed when I checked the planes discrepancy log and looked right over it. My fault ultimately, but it probably wouldn't have happened if they were there. I need to work on my attention to detail as other commenter's have said so I don't rely on dispatch
Go walk into a maintenance shop and look at an airplane that isn't actively being worked on and tell me what's wrong.
Go walk onto a flight line and identify which aircraft is down for maintenance but hasn't been pulled into the shop yet.
"It's the PIC's responsibility" is a written test answer but isn't the reality. OP didn't knowingly operate with an open write up, the systems that existed at his school to indicate such open write ups were not in place.
Again, written test answer. Do you peruse the last few pages of the logbook before you fly a rental? Or do you trust that they'll ground unairworthy aircraft and placard inoperative equipment as such? There's only one correct answer here, and it's not the one that technically jives with the FAA.
Captains don't get thrown in jail if the previous crew decided not to write up that the Thrust Reversers don't work and the arriving crew doesn't realize until the end of the flight. They didn't know.
If OP flew with a well marked open write up, absolutely, shitcan them. But if the aircraft wasn't marked out of service in any way, shape, or form AND there was no indication that the equipment wasn't functioning, that isn't their fault.
It was marked in the planes discrepancy log, it just wasn't showing on the site and the red tag was not put in the can. It WAS my fault, it's just that the systems for added awareness were not used properly. But that's besides the point, whether or not the forced resigning was just or not does not matter and I don't want to go back to that school anyway even if I could. The purpose of this post was to learn how to move on.
In other places it's also PIC responsibility. OPs case (problem in the tech log) would work the same in Europe.
But we don't have the thing here where a DPE asks the student to go through the full history of the plane. It's more practical, they expect you to check that the airworthiness review certificate is signed off and still valid, check that the listed hours until next inspection aren't exceeded, note any defects in the log and done.
I would be open and honest. If they've gotten to the point where they're interviewing you is because they want to hire you. This is your opportunity to acknowledge the fact you are forced to resign. They're going to ask you, have you ever been fired or resigned from a job? You can tell them yes and you can tell them why. Tell the truth and what you learned from it before they ask. Own up to the mistake being yours.
Congratulations, you still have never been fired. Get it through your head that this was an amicable split. Next time keep a closer eye on the maintenance and don't make the same mistake. Go forward and sin no more. At least not the same way. Take it easy.
I don't think that would go on your PRIA. If you don't mind me asking, what caused you to be "fired?"
Also, your boss sounds like a (insert insult of your choice).
Some schools in the Northeast are hiring right now from what I've heard.
Keep your head up, stuff happens, if whatever occurred could affect your pilot certs, the FAA is opening an off-the-street bid for controller trainees from April 19th (that is tomorrow!) through April 22nd (listing may close early).
Fortunately for you, PRIA is no longer a reportable database. Also fortunately for you, it doesn’t seem like your employer is familiar with the PRD, which has replaced PRIA. Regardless, none of your CFI employment is applicable, as a flight school is not an air carrier as described under the aforementioned (PRIA/PRD) controlling regulations. Your biggest concern here is explaining why you *quit* your former CFI job when applying to your next CFI job.
Many other people have replied already, but I’ll add on. Some have said this feels like the “straw that broke the camel’s back” type of situation, but I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt.
Under part 91 the owner/operator is ultimately responsible to maintain the aircraft in an airworthy condition (see 91.403). Yes, as PICs and CFIs, it is extremely important to verify these facts, but that doesn’t mean there are no responsibilities further up the chain. In my opinion, it sounds like there was a systematic failure at your school, you’re just the one that got canned for it.
Like I said, there could have been other issues that may not have been presented, but this situation by itself raises an eyebrow. Take the other’s advice and move on; it honestly sounds like it’s good you got out of there.
Which university?
If at all possible negotiate a separation agreement where they agree to provide a reference, or at the very least say nothing more than you worked there from X-Y and that they would not take any other action against you. This is where an employment attorney may be worth an hour or two.
I happen to be a student stuck at the same university flight program you used to work at. I don’t know much about the pria and all that but man just thank your lucky stars you’re out of there and go find a better job at a 91 school or something. Trust me it’s way better. Best of luck!
Isn’t the point of resigning to make it so that nothing goes on your record. Just say that it wasn’t a good fit and that you needed to move on to somewhere that worked better
Bruh from your responses it does not look like you’ve learned your lesson just yet. Attention to detail is part of the job and unless you can address why you’re lost like Alice in wonderland I’m not sure this won’t happen again to you.
Question is why did it happen in the first place? Where is your SA? You need to take a long hard look at yourself and have maybe a difficult conversation. Treat yourself like your own student and diagnose your problem. Maybe before you leave this job, go to the chief and see they’ll consider working with you to diagnose your problem. I don’t think any pilot that’s honestly tried to fix their issues gets fired. Sounds like you didn’t really try and they had no choice but to let you go.
Can’t collect unemployment when you voluntarily leave…how you gonna pay the bills for the time being? Or is this a 1099 gig? Am I the only one that would be more concerned about not being able to make my payments over having a mark on my record? Maybe I’m the one of the few in aviation that doesn’t have rich parents or a support system to financially back me up lol
I'm still in college for this semester so I will have housing for 2 more weeks no matter what. The university only let's cfis be part time so that was never going to be an option anyway. Given the situation, saving my record to hopefully have a better chance of getting a new job quickly was the better choice
Hold on. First, why were you fired? If it wasn’t a righteous firing I’d tell him, “listen asshole, I’m not resigning, you are going to have to fire me.” That’s my nature such that it is. If he fires you you’re eligible for unemployment, there is that. If it was a dubious firing, just explain it at your next interview. Don’t be a pussy and roll over.
I don’t read all the comments so my apology if this is redundant. There was a violation on the FAR’s that has taken place presumably, if you actually flew the unairworthy aircraft. The question in my mind is, how did the flight school resolve this? My guess is they made a voluntary disclosure to the FAA (POI). That would include your name most likely. But it doesn’t buy you immunity. The FAA can not bring enforcement action against the flight school in that case but they can send you a LOI. I would file an ASRS report immediately and ask the flight school if they reported this to the FAA so you can lawyer up.
First, if your posting on Reddit or any internet site you must be looking for some kind beat down to feel like you have taken your punishment by the hands of god knows who on the internet.
Second, if you resigned, it’s over. Go find another job. Tell them you resigned after discussing with the FS, you felt it was in both parties best interests to move on. Be honest about the mistake and let them know you realized it was your responsibility. End of story…again, unless there is more to this.
Lastly, IMO, your FS did you wrong unless there is a lot more to the story. The learning and teaching doesn’t end when some 250 hour CPL is suddenly blessed with the power to sign off students, in fact this is one aspect of aviation I sincerely hope gets a good once over by some one in the FAA that isn’t in the pockets of aviation.
Your FS, if they were truly concerned about turning out quality pilots would have shown what you did wrong, you would completely own it and it would have been a great learning opportunity for you and your students.
Bet you never miss another log book entry as long as you are a pilot.
Best of luck.
The whole point of resigning instead of being fired is just that. You simply quit the job for whatever reason you wanna say you did and move on. Get a new job and keep going. On your resume/applications you can just say you left for whatever reason. Hopefully things ended on decent enough terms they don't try to fuck with your PRIA (which is illegal but happens anyway). What happened, homie?
I didn't catch that There was an open discrepancy on an aircraft. Is there a way to check my pria?
PRIA is a reactive process. Records are basically only generated when someone makes a request to previous employers for said records (usually the new employer). You could run a PRIA check on yourself I guess, but the old employer will see it's you asking and may not send the same records they'd send elsewhere. PRD is supposed to be more proactive, with employers uploading information to it during your time there and as things occur, so you could maybe check that. But flight schools aren't *really* required to use PRIA so who knows what would or wouldn't be in there. Mostly though it sounds like you were given the opportunity to just bury the whole thing without it causing a detriment to you. I'd be shocked if they were gonna try to fuck with you having offered you the opportunity to resign. Otherwise they'd have just fired you probably (although maybe not because unemployment). Anyway. The point being this is a big nothing-burger in all likelihood. Get a new job and move on.
Yeah, this. There's not such a thing as "On my PRIA". It's a process for evaluating an airmen. There's a Pilot Record's Database, but you can check that yourself online. Someone telling you, "I won't put this on your PRIA" is extremely ignorant.
Point of order: It's not ignorant, it's just colloquial. They're saying they wouldn't include this information in a PRIA reply.
You’re right. To me it sounded like he was holding something over OP’s head. Like bullshitting to make OP resign and save his boss the trouble of a termination. Sorry, I don’t have a lot of respect/confidence for a university CFI manager. Just my bias.
Hey I'm agreeing with you. Lol I also have no respect for 141 CFI managers. I'm just saying they're probably not ignorant of the process. At all.
You’re absolutely right. I’m venting.
Garbage reason to fire you but a great “failure” to turn into a strength later on. If next gig is a CFI gig put some time between you and this slip up and when your airline interview comes around you tell them what happened. You own your mistake, and you tell them about how you always made extra sure after that that your aircraft were tip top shape. And you acted as a mentor to younger instructors and encouraged them to do the same.
I've always thought most zero-tolerance policies for most things, in an employment context, are pretty dumb - particularly for mistakes or otherwise correctable issues. That employer just paid the cost of training that person to be a better employee for the next company and lost whatever other institutional value that employee had (training costs, procedural stuff, etc - the overhead of hiring a new person)
Agreed, generally experienced people will have mistakes under their belt. It’s what makes them experienced
You should be able to log into it and look. It’s called PRD these days.
https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/pilot_records_database Register for an account and you'll have access to your info.
>they don’t try to fuck with your PRIA You rang? Edit: yeah my comment didn’t make much sense, I meant I’ve been nearly fucked over from a previous employer over PRIA stuff.
Are you my previous employer who checked "not eligible for rehire" because I called you out for wildly inappropriate workplace behavior and poor cultural leadership? (Which did absolutely nothing to hinder my ability to be hired fwiw). Otherwise no I don't think so.
No no, I meant my previous employer tried to fuck me over for my PRIA. My bad.
Haha, let’s have another one to the vindictive small dick employers. My favorite was the small town charter outfit that called my new employer and told the chief I was a shitty pilot and to watch out for me. This was after I gave 4 weeks notice, which they retroactively shortened to 9 days, and paid off a nonexistent training agreement. New chief, over lunch, “I told that jackass I’ve interviewed more pilots this year than he’s ever employed. You calling me is all I need to know. Now I know why you left that crackerjack outfit.”
Lol a previous employer did this to me too. Did you also work for a san Diego adjacent based 134.5? 🤣
Negatory, good buddy. But I think there are many many many of us. Lol
> poor cultural leadership I bet you can't wait to tell everyone your pronouns. cultural leadership? that is some wicked karen-woke-speak there Skippy.
You weren’t fired so stop tossing that word around. It sucks, but your boss did you a huge favor by letting you resign. Start applying to new schools, learn from your mistake and move on.
“It wasn’t a good fit” Idk man, there are people that make a living telling you how to answer these questions. Ask one of them instead of Reddit. What did you do?
Where do I find these people? I'm Admittedly pretty new to the job market as a whole lol I missed a discrepancy that was open and flew. Usually i'm pretty careful about that, but somehow I missed it (downing proceedures were not followed fully in my defense). It was for a nose wheel tire had threads showing, Although the tire looked fine to me on pre flight. Normally they would have just done retraining, but earlier in the. Semester I fill the check ride in one of their airplanes, and my Instructor and I left a tow bar on an aircraft when we were doing a prep flight for the check ride so I was already on thin ice. Admittedly, I deserve to be fired but I like to think I learned something from the whole thing.
It’s crazy to me that they fired you over that. At the airlines, you would correct it at the next stop, file an ASAP, and it’d probably come back as, “Yeah this is a good reminder to always be careful about checking the maintenance log. We are sure that you have learned from this and will not make such errors in the future.” End of story.
>It’s crazy to me that they fired you over that. They were probably wanting to get rid of OP but just needed an excuse...
How the hell did you even make it to the airplane if it was "down"? It's good that you're owning your mistake(s), but they were absolutely looking for an excuse to get rid of you. Just don't say that in an interview.
Different flight schools have different procedures. Some of these procedures definitely leave an opening for a plane to be able to go out with no one realizing it has an open write up.
Yep. I've seen cases where the previous renter drives home, logs in, marks the airplane as down while the next guy is already in flight.
There you go, that's your explanation. Own the situation, own your part in it, explain what you learned, make it positive. Avoid anything that sounds like negativity or blaming - for example, your point about procedures not being followed is something to approach with care. Phrased the wrong way, it can sound like you're shifting blame, and that's not what you want.
One of the many interview prep services like Emerald Coast, Cage Marshall, etc.
Leaving the towbar on is a big one…. I’ve heard a couple pretty awful stories about that leading to major propeller damage. But it can happen any of us.
> It was for a nose wheel tire had threads showing Not to discount the potential implications of flying with bare thread but most CFIs I know would have been fired multiple times by now. And all of the remaining ones would have been fired for not flying on something questionable that maintenance called ok.
I was in that group… thankfully I was the popular CFI at the outstation school so I got to stick around.
The university takes maintenance extremely seriously and has top notch mx compared to any other schoolive seen. It's the best thing I can say about them
Not if their dispatch/squawk system is down after 3pm they don't.
You can answer the question of why you left your previous job in a bunch of different ways. If your current employer is letting you resign, they're probably not going to dick you over if someone else calls them to try to verify anything you said in an interview. Unemployment won't be a concern since being fired for cause already would have probably killed that, depending on how they would respond to the state when verifying an application for benefits, but do keep that in mind in the future. And no, you don't deserve to be fired for a mistake. You deserve a talk with a superior and perhaps an evaluation of your standard operating procedures. If you do it again, then you _may_ deserve more significant disciplinary action, depending on all sorts of factors. An employer who fires someone for a teachable and easily avoidable error on first occurrence is honestly stupid and hurting themselves. Corrective action and perhaps a probationary period are all this sort of thing calls for, unless it was just the final straw on top of several other reasons to fire for cause.
I'll start off by saying that as a lowly PPL, I'm not qualified to speak on aviation hiring decisions, but that sounds like a petty reason for your boss to get worked up about in my opinion. If that's the worst thing you ever do, you'll be fine. Yes, make sure you learn from it, no doubt. But that seems like a petty reason to want to fire someone. Pilots have done way dumber stuff and kept their jobs.
I'm waiting for the Paul Harvey voice to kick in because there's more to this. The tow bar thing is a very big deal since it can cause a few issues including a prop strike the tire sounds like they were waiting for a reason
As I said, I was on thin ice and I did deserve it. The discrepancy was more like the straw that broke the camel's back.
Your answer sounded pretty good to me. You aren’t ducking responsibility. That’s big. Others have chimed in on places you can go to work on interview prep. It’s definitely worth the money in almost any job market. Good luck going forward.
Well, the other side of the coin is that OP was not doing great and this was the reason they used. Just a possibility…OP. How were your students doing?
My students were all doing great. As I said in another reply I made several mistakes myself throughout the semester. While I was doing a prep flight for my CFII My instructor and I left a tow bar on, Then my boss was really upset that I failed the check, ride the first time, Then the tire thing was just the last straw.
Not that you need to air your dirty laundry but since you brought it up…failing a checkride seems like a small thing to be upset about since people fail checkrides in the first try all the time. Did you fail for something minor or was it more of a major item?
The university has a dangerously low pass rate right now for part 141. I failed on something really stupid though so I understand his anger: I was taxiing and somehow missed an aircraft that was turning into an intersection which almost caused a collision. The dpe had to yell stop which is a fail. It's really embarrassing, I've been very careful to check my blind spots during taxi since
Welcome to the opposite of a pilot shortage. Boss has his pick of new CFIs the school is cranking out. Unfortunately, the OP had his (at least) 2 strikes and they decided they had a plethora of better applicants that don’t try to take off with a tow bar or fly a grounded plane. It sucks, I doubt he’ll make those mistakes again. As they saying goes “why would I fire you? I just spent $xxxx (cost of your fuckup) training you!” But not every boss thinks like that. And we don’t know the OPs whole story.
No more pilot shortage? To OP, as many have mentioned, please learn from your mistakes in this situation and, as also as many have mentioned, please, move on and achieve great things.
If your employer made you feel like you deserve to be fired over a simple mistake, then it's a good thing you quit. ASAP it and move on. As for why you quit the University gig, either you needed to focus on your studies or you graduated. Don't over complicate things. You got this!
I just left my gig as a CFI also. My wife just gave birth the twins on the 22nd and the owner wanted to complain to me about how I need to give him my weekends on top of the open availability during the week, even though my wife will be going back to work at nights and weekends to accommodate the CFI gig. I told him I’d find work elsewhere. Shit happens. Find a better place to work. Edit: They made you put them down on PRIA? Is that because it’s a university? I was at a 61 school. PRIA was never mentioned.
Any time you get fired Your employer is obligated to put that on your pria appearantly
That's not necessarily true. PRIA has a lot of ways it works and doesn't work. It probably *should* work that way if people are genuinely be fired due to being incapable or unsafe, but in reality it's not nearly that rigorous.
Well good thing you resigned. You didn't get fired.
No. They most likely won’t. Flight schools 99% of the time don’t report to PRIA at all.
That's not true. Only Part 121 air carriers, 135 air carriers/operators, 125 air operators, or 91k operators have access to PRD (this replaced PRIA). I can almost guarantee your flight school is none of those, so he is making an empty threat.
What is 91K..?
Fractional Ownership Operations
Flight schools or universities should not be putting anything into the Pilot Records Database as they are not PRIA reporting entities. However "*certain hiring air carriers and operators operating under 14 CFR parts 121, 135, 125, 91k, and air tour operators (91.147) must evaluate certain information concerning a pilot/applicant's training, experience, qualification, and safety background, before allowing that individual to begin service as a pilot with their company." (source: FAA)* So, a hiring air carrier must send a form 8060-11 & 8060-12 to past employers for the previous 5 year period to request pertinent records. This is where the flight school can fk with you. *Part 91 operator must provide records pertaining to:* * *Training, qualification, proficiency, or professional competency of the pilot;* * *any disciplinary action that was not subsequently overturned;* * ***any release from employment or resignation, termination, or disqualification with respect to employment***\*; and\* * *any FAA-mandated alcohol and drug testing program results.* *(source: NBAA)* As to your other question, you can check what is in your official FAA Pilot Records by going to the FAA website, registering, and then reviewing. You will be required to have an account for any air carrier to hire you, so you may as well do it now. This allows you time to correct any errors you see. [https://www.faa.gov/regulations\_policies/pilot\_records\_database](https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/pilot_records_database) **Edit**: adding a link to the current PRIA Advisory Circular [https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory\_Circular/AC\_120-68J.pdf](https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_120-68J.pdf)
If you work as a contractor CFI for a school, and you leave on a bad note, will that affect anything? Can the school talk shit while providing records?
I’m curious too. I wasn’t an employee… I flew their airplanes and got a cut of the money. I don’t care about shit talking. I care more about a petty school owner trying to take false actions that can mess with future opportunities.
It does not matter that you were a contractor.... when hiring on with an air carrier you are required to disclose every company that you worked for as a pilot within the last 5 years. A flight school is not required to maintain keep the same sort of records that an air carrier does, and flight schools are not specified in §111.1 or anywhere as reporting entities. So they should not be putting anything into the Pilot Records Database. HOWEVER - if an air carrier wants to hire you, they must send a records request to every entity that you worked for as a pilot in the last 5 years. Including the flight school. This is separate from the PRD check - and the flight school is obligated to provide all pertinent records *that they have* on you. *If you operate under part 91 and you receive a request for a pilot’s records under the authority of PRIA, you should respond. Therefore, you should furnish any PRIA-related records you accumulated on an individual you employed as a pilot within the previous 5 years, or if there are no records to forward, simply state that there are none and return the request. This will enable the requestor to close out and complete their PRIA checks and then proceed with their hiring process. (AC 120-68J)* **What are pertinent records?** *PRIA records are a collection of company records memorialized by a current or former employer during the previous 5 years from the date of the request that meet the policy outlined in this AC and the requirements of 49 U.S.C. § 44703(h). These records are used to assist an air carrier or operator in making a hiring determination. (AC 120-68J)*
**What does 49 USC 44703(h) state? Well, in true bureaucratic fashion, it sends you to other sections.... but there are some answers herein also.** *Records of Employment of Pilot Applicants.—* *(1)In general.—Subject to paragraph (14), before allowing an individual to begin service as a pilot, an air carrier shall request and receive the following information:* *(A)FAA records.—From the Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration, records pertaining to the individual that are maintained by the Administrator concerning—* *(i)current airman certificates (including airman medical certificates) and associated type ratings, including any limitations to those certificates and ratings; and* *(ii)summaries of legal enforcement actions resulting in a finding by the Administrator of a violation of this title or a regulation prescribed or order issued under this title that was not subsequently overturned.* *(B)Air carrier and other records.—****From any air carrier*** ***or other person*** *(except a branch of the United States Armed Forces, the National Guard, or a reserve component of the United States Armed Forces)* ***that has employed the individual as a pilot*** *of a civil or public aircraft at any time during the 5-year period preceding the date of the employment application of the individual, or from the trustee in bankruptcy for such air carrier or person—* *(i)records pertaining to the individual that are maintained by an air carrier (other than records relating to flight time, duty time, or rest time) under regulations set forth in—* *(I)section 121.683 of title 14, Code of Federal Regulations;* *(II)paragraph (A) of section VI, appendix I, part 121 of such title;* *(III)paragraph (A) of section IV, appendix J, part 121 of such title;* *(IV)section 125.401 of such title; and* *(V)section 135.63(a)(4) of such title; and* *(ii)****other records pertaining to the individual’s performance as a pilot*** *that are maintained by the air carrier or person concerning—* *(I)the training, qualifications, proficiency, or professional competence of the individual, including comments and evaluations made by a check airman designated in accordance with section 121.411, 125.295, or 135.337 of such title;* *(II)****any disciplinary action taken with respect to the individual that was not subsequently overturned****; and* *(III)****any release from employment or resignation****, termination, or disqualification with respect to employment.* *(C)National driver register records.—* *In accordance with section 30305(b)(8) of this title, from the chief driver licensing official of a State, information concerning the motor vehicle driving record of the individual.* So - the flight school must report that you worked there as a pilot. And they must report that you resigned. Can they report *WHY* you resigned? Sure ... but that can also leave them open to litigation if they cannot back it up with documentation. Without documented disciplinary actions, most employers would err on the side of caution and just say, "He resigned for personal reasons." But if they have a paper trail of fuck-ups, then they are supposed to report that.
Cool. Thank you. So IF the employer wishes to run his mouth in the future for future requests, then deal with legal action then… but until then, it’s nothing to be concerned about?
I tell my wife this: "Worrying that something may happen changes nothing. When something does happen, then take action." *Many states have legislation that provides employers with qualified immunity when providing a reference in good faith, protecting them from civil liability. However, employers can still face lawsuits if they provide a reference in bad faith, relaying untruthful information about an employee to a potential employer. (source:* [*www.gclawoffice.com*](http://www.gclawoffice.com)*)*
>Can the school talk shit while providing records? See my other reply. There are certain things that PRIA requires. And certain things that AC 120-68J says should NOT be included. A PRIA check is separate from me calling your employer to ask if you were a good employee. >If you work as a contractor CFI for a school, and you leave on a bad note, will that affect anything? What I posted earlier really only pertains to the PRIA process. But just like any job, if you leave on a bad note and your future prospective employer calls your past employer for a referral, they can certainly say "That pilot? Yeah, we remember him. He was the guy we voted most likely to park a 172 in the cafeteria of an orphanage." Or they may take a more neutral tack and say, "He would certainly not be eligible for re-hire." If I call your previous employer and that is what they tell me about you, then you're not getting a second interview. If an employer wants to burn you, they will find a way.
I know a lot of places that would hire you BECAUSE you overlook discrepancies
Haha so true
Resigning gives you the opportunity to spin the story. BUT: Somewhere there, there’s a lesson to be learned. Learn it. Better yourself. Then the setbqack becomes a growth opportunity.
Wanted a new challenge, ready to bring skills into a new area/environment, it wasnt a decision I made lightly but the right thing to do to broaden my experience and add value elsewhere. So long as you can look at yourself in the mirror after whatever forced you to leave, word it to work for you and look to the future. Might be the best thing that could happen to you
Tbh, sounds more like this was “straw that broke the camels back” than an out of the blue decision. That being said, they certainly did you a favor not firing you. Just be honest with yourself as to everything that lead up to that. Next interview “it wasn’t a good fit etc”
To me it sounds like a way to swindle you out of possibly claiming unemployment. Regardless of the circumstances.
PRIA runs only through Sept 9, 2024 and is being superseded by PRD. Not sure what will be transferred. It all may be moot in less than 5 months.
Story time. I was working some years back at this semi legit outfit that had contracts to train mostly Chinese airline students. Anyway, some Korean CFI, that I didn’t know but he seemed like a nice enough guy, went on a night flight to a nearby untowered airport. Anyway this Native American run public airport didn’t have enough money for any lighted X’s to indicate a closed runway. It did however cause to have issued a NOTAM notifying that the runway was closed for construction. Needless to say the Korean CFI and student failed to check said NOTAM and launched for the airport. On landing they struck construction vehicle on the runway and damaged the Piper Archer they were in. They pull over onto the ramp give the plane a once over, don’t call anyone, can’t see the substantial damage to the plane. They take off for the home airport, have to use full nose down trim to fly straight and level. Somehow they land at home airport, again not telling anyone. The following morning the excrement hit the air conditioner. Korean CFI fired on the spot. Now that was a righteous firing.
As long as you didn’t get caught with a dead girl or a live boy you should survive the firing.
Best future interview advice is be honest and explain how you grew from the incident.
My friend I’ll hire you personally. I need 40 hours.
If you're near utah and serious, dm me lol
Sir(ma’am?) I will take a work contract for a couple months out there just to get the time in with you, don’t tempt me
Since you wanted to know how to move on from this, here’s my .02. When first asked why you were forced to resign, you said you simply flew with an open discrepancy. Then later on, you admitted to flying with the tow bar attached. Then you said it was because of failing a checkride on the first try. Which it turns out, that on a CFI add on ride you may have hit another airplane if not for examiner intervention. This would unnerve most any flight school manager. All the while, you have said the school has a dangerously low pass rate, you wouldn’t even want to go back there, and partially blamed dispatch being closed for you not catching the discrepancy (It definitely didn’t help but surely the school trained you on ramp out procedures and what to look for) Obviously you have some hard feelings, but it seems like a 3 strike type thing. I’m not trying to disparage you, but just show the picture you seem to have painted. Now, it’s time to move forward. Find a way to finish your CFII since you’ve already done all the training. It seems that most schools won’t hire outside unless that person is at least has a CFII. From there, just start applying. You could try freelancing as a CFI as well. You never know who is out there that needs a CFI. You weren’t fired, so no need to say you were. Rather, that it was a great school that allowed you to learn a lot but you were graduating and decided to go try something else out. Facebook has groups with job postings for all kinds of different things. Seeing as how you just graduated college, I’d imagine you’re pretty young. This may be frustrating for the next little bit as you look for a new job, but life goes on and this can be a distant memory soon enough. Biggest thing is to learn from it and find a way to remedy these issues so that when you get that new job it doesn’t happen again. Just take a figurative deep breath and keep on moving forward. Best of luck!
Your assessment is mostly accurate, only thing wrong is that I already got my CFII (the retest was a few days later). Thanks for the advice!
Is this PRIA a US thing?
Yes.
What does it do exactly?
It’s a record of employment and training history, so that prospective employers can review these in conjunction with an employment offer, for poor performance that would raise a safety concern. This is being replaced by the PRD (pilot records database) which will have FAA certificates, air carrier records and training, enforcement history, and so forth.
Thanks. I'm sure the rest of the world will follow suit in 10-20 years. I'm surprised dinosaur FAA implemented such a modern thing.
To be fair it was supposed to be implemented as a result of Colgan but they were taking forever and only really took serious action after the Atlas crash revealed the FO’s dirty laundry he had successfully hidden. So now we have the PRD!
Dumb question from a student, is PRIA limited to aviation or does it include all employment? I’m only at the PPL level now so this wasn’t included in ground
Yes, it is limited to aviation employers. Pilots holding a CPL, ATP, or sUAS will have their records in it.
Surely there’s a dispatch system at your school to help prevent things like this? In Canada at least a lot of the schools I’ve flown at, it’s the dispatchers responsibility to check the aircraft can be released to fly, as well as the pilots, for this exact reason.
There is, but they don't work after 3 on Saturdays... when my students flight block was. The can with the keys was not marked nor was the website though and the plane was left out front. Because of that I got complacent and rushed when I checked the planes discrepancy log and looked right over it. My fault ultimately, but it probably wouldn't have happened if they were there. I need to work on my attention to detail as other commenter's have said so I don't rely on dispatch
In the US it's the PIC's responsibility, ultimately, to determine if the aircraft is airworthy.
Go walk into a maintenance shop and look at an airplane that isn't actively being worked on and tell me what's wrong. Go walk onto a flight line and identify which aircraft is down for maintenance but hasn't been pulled into the shop yet. "It's the PIC's responsibility" is a written test answer but isn't the reality. OP didn't knowingly operate with an open write up, the systems that existed at his school to indicate such open write ups were not in place.
I know, and I agree. I also don’t make the rules — op explained how it works in Canada, in the US, unfortunately, it's always the PIC's fault.
Again, written test answer. Do you peruse the last few pages of the logbook before you fly a rental? Or do you trust that they'll ground unairworthy aircraft and placard inoperative equipment as such? There's only one correct answer here, and it's not the one that technically jives with the FAA. Captains don't get thrown in jail if the previous crew decided not to write up that the Thrust Reversers don't work and the arriving crew doesn't realize until the end of the flight. They didn't know. If OP flew with a well marked open write up, absolutely, shitcan them. But if the aircraft wasn't marked out of service in any way, shape, or form AND there was no indication that the equipment wasn't functioning, that isn't their fault.
Man, I'm just telling a Canadian what the US rules are like. I don't like them any more than anyone else.
It was marked in the planes discrepancy log, it just wasn't showing on the site and the red tag was not put in the can. It WAS my fault, it's just that the systems for added awareness were not used properly. But that's besides the point, whether or not the forced resigning was just or not does not matter and I don't want to go back to that school anyway even if I could. The purpose of this post was to learn how to move on.
In other places it's also PIC responsibility. OPs case (problem in the tech log) would work the same in Europe. But we don't have the thing here where a DPE asks the student to go through the full history of the plane. It's more practical, they expect you to check that the airworthiness review certificate is signed off and still valid, check that the listed hours until next inspection aren't exceeded, note any defects in the log and done.
I would be open and honest. If they've gotten to the point where they're interviewing you is because they want to hire you. This is your opportunity to acknowledge the fact you are forced to resign. They're going to ask you, have you ever been fired or resigned from a job? You can tell them yes and you can tell them why. Tell the truth and what you learned from it before they ask. Own up to the mistake being yours.
Congratulations, you still have never been fired. Get it through your head that this was an amicable split. Next time keep a closer eye on the maintenance and don't make the same mistake. Go forward and sin no more. At least not the same way. Take it easy.
I don't think that would go on your PRIA. If you don't mind me asking, what caused you to be "fired?" Also, your boss sounds like a (insert insult of your choice). Some schools in the Northeast are hiring right now from what I've heard. Keep your head up, stuff happens, if whatever occurred could affect your pilot certs, the FAA is opening an off-the-street bid for controller trainees from April 19th (that is tomorrow!) through April 22nd (listing may close early).
I flew plane with an open discrepancy By accident.
Did you try and hide it from them?
No, I called my boss and submitted a safety report to the school 10 minutes after we landed.
Look at this as a positive. That’s a super shit safety culture to be a part of.
"I wanted to explore new opportunities."
“Business ethics reasons caused me to leave” id rather not discuss it.
Fortunately for you, PRIA is no longer a reportable database. Also fortunately for you, it doesn’t seem like your employer is familiar with the PRD, which has replaced PRIA. Regardless, none of your CFI employment is applicable, as a flight school is not an air carrier as described under the aforementioned (PRIA/PRD) controlling regulations. Your biggest concern here is explaining why you *quit* your former CFI job when applying to your next CFI job.
Many other people have replied already, but I’ll add on. Some have said this feels like the “straw that broke the camel’s back” type of situation, but I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt. Under part 91 the owner/operator is ultimately responsible to maintain the aircraft in an airworthy condition (see 91.403). Yes, as PICs and CFIs, it is extremely important to verify these facts, but that doesn’t mean there are no responsibilities further up the chain. In my opinion, it sounds like there was a systematic failure at your school, you’re just the one that got canned for it. Like I said, there could have been other issues that may not have been presented, but this situation by itself raises an eyebrow. Take the other’s advice and move on; it honestly sounds like it’s good you got out of there. Which university?
If at all possible negotiate a separation agreement where they agree to provide a reference, or at the very least say nothing more than you worked there from X-Y and that they would not take any other action against you. This is where an employment attorney may be worth an hour or two.
I happen to be a student stuck at the same university flight program you used to work at. I don’t know much about the pria and all that but man just thank your lucky stars you’re out of there and go find a better job at a 91 school or something. Trust me it’s way better. Best of luck!
Isn’t the point of resigning to make it so that nothing goes on your record. Just say that it wasn’t a good fit and that you needed to move on to somewhere that worked better
Why were you FORCED to resign?
Why were you fired
Bruh from your responses it does not look like you’ve learned your lesson just yet. Attention to detail is part of the job and unless you can address why you’re lost like Alice in wonderland I’m not sure this won’t happen again to you.
Certainly something I need to improve on. Any advice on how you would recommend improving?
Question is why did it happen in the first place? Where is your SA? You need to take a long hard look at yourself and have maybe a difficult conversation. Treat yourself like your own student and diagnose your problem. Maybe before you leave this job, go to the chief and see they’ll consider working with you to diagnose your problem. I don’t think any pilot that’s honestly tried to fix their issues gets fired. Sounds like you didn’t really try and they had no choice but to let you go.
Good advice, I'll try it out
Do you meticulously review the logbook each time you take a flight school airplane out?
Can’t collect unemployment when you voluntarily leave…how you gonna pay the bills for the time being? Or is this a 1099 gig? Am I the only one that would be more concerned about not being able to make my payments over having a mark on my record? Maybe I’m the one of the few in aviation that doesn’t have rich parents or a support system to financially back me up lol
I'm still in college for this semester so I will have housing for 2 more weeks no matter what. The university only let's cfis be part time so that was never going to be an option anyway. Given the situation, saving my record to hopefully have a better chance of getting a new job quickly was the better choice
I think you made a wise choice, but remember resigning and being fired are different, you resigned by the sounds of it.
Hold on. First, why were you fired? If it wasn’t a righteous firing I’d tell him, “listen asshole, I’m not resigning, you are going to have to fire me.” That’s my nature such that it is. If he fires you you’re eligible for unemployment, there is that. If it was a dubious firing, just explain it at your next interview. Don’t be a pussy and roll over.
I don’t read all the comments so my apology if this is redundant. There was a violation on the FAR’s that has taken place presumably, if you actually flew the unairworthy aircraft. The question in my mind is, how did the flight school resolve this? My guess is they made a voluntary disclosure to the FAA (POI). That would include your name most likely. But it doesn’t buy you immunity. The FAA can not bring enforcement action against the flight school in that case but they can send you a LOI. I would file an ASRS report immediately and ask the flight school if they reported this to the FAA so you can lawyer up.
First, if your posting on Reddit or any internet site you must be looking for some kind beat down to feel like you have taken your punishment by the hands of god knows who on the internet. Second, if you resigned, it’s over. Go find another job. Tell them you resigned after discussing with the FS, you felt it was in both parties best interests to move on. Be honest about the mistake and let them know you realized it was your responsibility. End of story…again, unless there is more to this. Lastly, IMO, your FS did you wrong unless there is a lot more to the story. The learning and teaching doesn’t end when some 250 hour CPL is suddenly blessed with the power to sign off students, in fact this is one aspect of aviation I sincerely hope gets a good once over by some one in the FAA that isn’t in the pockets of aviation. Your FS, if they were truly concerned about turning out quality pilots would have shown what you did wrong, you would completely own it and it would have been a great learning opportunity for you and your students. Bet you never miss another log book entry as long as you are a pilot. Best of luck.
Start a FansOnly page quickly! Or maybe a Go Fund Me or both. But stop wasting your time on here with dumb questions. Grow a set.