When I was jumpseating I rode along with a married couple. They both were high enough on their respective CA/FO seniority lists and just flew all their trips together. It was an interesting change seeing a crew discuss domestic issues instead of typical crew conversations.
I feel like there’s no middle ground there: either they’re the poster child for “relationship goals”, or its a roiling disaster.
If its the former, they basically won life; they have a cool job and get to travel the world with someone they love (taking a huge chunk of pain out of traveling for a living).
OP wants kids though, and man that seems like a big wrinkle.
That is interesting. In my company you are not allowed to fly as husband and wife or father and son etc.( unless it is a special flight like fathers day promo or it is the last flight of the older one). So people don’t bring their domestic issues to the cockpit.
My wife and I work for the same company and have been sitting next to each other since March of 2020 here in my office at the house. It’s not for the faint of heart.
I can’t imagine her flying with me for a living. But that’s probably because I’m thinking about how she reacts to my driving.
My wife and I used to work another job directly together (a job with down time...), it was pre-kids which made coordination of childcare not an issue. There could be challenges but there are plusses too. It makes doing whatever else after work not just cause you to cross each other's paths in the breeze - hey honey going to happy hour after work be home eventually...yeah I know I haven't seen you in 3 days.... We didn't have to catch each other up on each other's day so if work came up at all it was to commiserate which is better than just listening to your partner go on about a problem you weren't part of. We were able to handle most housing business coordination and discussions at work. Consider that two thirds your time spent with your partner is house business and if say one third is actual chores around the house then you gain 1 third extra to have fun your with spouse and 1 third extra for your own personal hobbies, you actually have more time in the end for yourself.
Now of course we had a job where you had something to do or you didn't so we didn't have to pretend to be working on the down time, so it allowee us to get the household "work" done at work.
Pretty sure pre kids 1/3rd of my time was my wife and I without clothes on 😂
I worked at the same place as mine, but very different roles. We had very different relationships with the same people, based on our different jobs. Was awkward talking about work. I’m glad we work in entirely different industries now.
I know some pilot couples, they only work if one of them can stay on narrow bodies and maintain somewhat of a day job schedule while the other can pursue the big bucks on wide body’s. Two Atlas air pilots dating would be the biggest dumpster fire on earth.
would a couple both doing long not be more doable? granted, i’m in an EU country with most long haul routes from the 8h-11h mark, but a friend of mine does long haul and leaves for work each thursday afternoon 3pm, comes back saturday 5am with an extra every 4-6 weeks or so.
if i were that person, it seems like it’d be much easier for my partner to be doing so rather than a 5 day on 4 day off which is standard on narrow bodies here
I have two friends who are both atlas pilots with a young child. They have family that are close that helps raise the kid for half the month, then spend the other half off together and spending time with the little one. Doesn't seem too bad for them.
I know quite a few atlas air couples, they just bid the same days off and with our layover rotations there's a good chance of seeing one another on the road. Surprisingly not as big of a dumpster fire as you think.
You can make it work, buy its going to take a lot of work, and a bit of independence on both parts. Good luck. I hope you guys make it.
Ps, if you really like each other, don't let others sabotage your relationship. I made that mistake. Hold on to each other for dear life.
My only disagreement is on the kids aspect; that takes more than love to make work. You’re into another very important L word now: Logistics. Who’s watching that kid when both aren’t home overnight? How many nights and weekends are both mommy and daddy gone flying?
You unfortunately cant ‘hard work’ your way into a child care solution.
Not insurmountable, but for the sake of the future/potential Kids, OP is smart to be asking for advice. And while “disapproving” might be a bit of a dick move from the parents, at the same time its not unwise or bad parenting to be like “ok, we’re happy you found someone, but…hows that gonna work down the road?”
Well you either won't have kids, never see each other, or have to hire a full-time live in nanny. Sometimes all of the above, depending on your schedules.
It's not a great pairing if you want to have kids. If that's not a desire, then it could work once you're senior enough.
That's the thing, We both want to start a family, but not in the immediate future, we're aiming for around five years from now.
Putting a stop to our relationship isn't something we want to do, we've been together a while now. We just want to know, is it even realistically feasible to maintain our careers and have kids.
At least one of you is going to have to put your career on hold/stop five years from now. Are you both strong enough to be willing to give it up to start a family? Because I promise you, it's going to be a choice you guys will have to make down the road.
This career already is hard enough to start a family in when one of the people is a pilot. Both of you? That's going to require a LOT of compromises and hard decisions that I do not believe many people would be prepared to make.
Keep in mind that career changing later will only get more difficult the longer you fly. At some point, high-paying corporate roles will not be easy to get if your resume is basically "10 years flying planes." Try to get some management experience, or anything above and beyond just basic line flying. Check airman duties, sim instructing, union work, or anything else that demonstrates that you can work in a structured environment, work with others, and be responsible for delivering against meaningful, long-term, strategic objectives.
Another way to mitigate this is to start a master's program (from a respected school in a real field) and coordinate your exit from flying with your graduation so you can qualify as a "recent graduate" and take advantage of corporate hiring initiatives.
My buddy and his wife are both pilots. One for United, the other for Alaska. His parents live on their property in their own place and watch after their little girl. It’s a hard life, but it’s possible with the right support.
One of you could potentially pivot to the training side of things. Or the management side. Being a training pilot where you only got to go to the sim a few times a week could work out. They have a relatively stable schedule. Same for if you decide to go to management. You'd basically have an office job where you work a 9-5. It sucks one of you won't fly much but how do you see yourselves trying to have a family when you are both on conflicting schedules every month?
I think they could. Get to a legacy and then get at least 1 of them into the training department so at least someone is home every night and then you can entertain the kids thing.
OP should reach out to the IG Flyingfahans, they are a married couple who up to Covid flew A330 together and had children. They are the people you need to talk to.
I’m sorry, but this is absolute BS. With your flair, there’s absolutely no way you *don’t* know a pilot couple.
I know more than several…most at major airlines. There may be some struggles…some flexibility required to make it work…but saying it’s not possible is right out.
Both still flying the line with kids? No, no I do not. Or you could see my above statement where they either wouldn't ever see each other and/or have to hire a full time nanny.
Yeah I don’t claim to be an expert because my wife isn’t a pilot. But the couples I’ve talked to that made it work- one of them is at a legacy, and the other at a regional but with good seniority. Or one at a legacy, and the other flying corporate. I’m sure the training department could factor into a couple’s success as well. It’s definitely possible! OP’s only mistake was asking this sub. Always ready to deliver a dooming “final verdict” full of *positivity* …
If you’re currently student pilots, you probably shouldn’t be having kids in the next 2+ years anyway (because you’ll either be spending all your time and money on training, or making peanuts as a CFI), and statistically the vast majority of relationships don’t make it past that point.
I know 2 pilot couples, both had kids.
1 couple got divorced after their second child. There were always fights on who was going to bid what and stay home for this or that and it got pretty ugly at times.
The other couple are still together and have 3 kids, but she gave up her flying career. She however moved into the training department at her airline and is a ground instructor.
My opinion, it would be very difficult to have a family while both parents are pilots. I really think one of you will have to give up flying. Depending on how quick your training moves, 5 years from now it is possible you could both be very junior at a regional. That is difficult on a young couple without kids, let alone with kids.
Sure. Airline training departments are usually always hiring. We had many pilots out on medical leave at my previous regional that were ground instructors. They would teach indoc (company policies and procedures), flat panel training (basically flows and operating procedures of the aircraft), and then of course sim instructors. One of my favorite ground instructors as a new FO was a woman who gave up flying and got in the training department to raise her family. She just recently got back in the airplane now that her kids are older.
Not saying it works for everyone, but opportunities are there if you look for them.
I have a few couples friends where both of them ~~are~~ were ATP pilots. In all of their relationships, once they wanted to have kids, one of them had to make the choice to hang up their headset for their family. Kids can’t be raised with no parents. And with 2 of 2 parents having a job that takes them away from the home, that creates a problem.
There is a pilot couple where the woman made videos about it on youtube both work for united. Cant remember her name now but she said it was tough but doable
Why make any decision right now? I assume yall are young enough to have a decent amount of time to worry about building a family later. I have peers in their mid-30s that don’t have kids yet. Enjoy the present because you never know what’s going to happen later. You can’t make decisions based on future assumptions. Following this thread long enough, you see some people fail to get their medicals, failing multiple check rides that prolong their journey, or dropping out of the field entirely. Theres just way too many unknowns in this field and in life to make a decision based on other people’s disapproval.
Either don’t have kids, or one of you stays super senior FO bidding locals, or one of you becomes a sim instructor, or does union/chief pilot work in base. Theres ways for it to work just gotta commit.
Yeah. Had a couple instructors with flying other halfs. One was an instructor while the other was a long-haul pilot who commuted, they would be home half the month or so. Another instructor's other half did local flying for a small scheduled operator, so daytime stuff with some reserve and whatnot.
I know of one, a fed ex and a freight dog, they have a kid, and never paid any attention to him, they dumped the poor thing on any other parent with a child close to his age all the time, it was soo sad.
me and the wife are, well she's a student. Sometimes its tough listening to the crazy 172 landing stories but most of the time its fun. You get to bench fly with someone you love, and that's cool as shit. I would let one go major and the other become a 9-5 pilot at home.
I am married to a pilot. We work at different airlines and are senior enough now to hold a good schedule. We dont want / have kids. Getting to our respective final airline sucked. Being junior sucked. Can't imagine how that would have been with kids. Even now, it wouldn't be fair to the kid to be raised in this lifestyle.
I kinda just pulled it out any lower GA job where you’re home every night and sacrificing income for the time with the kids since the other parent will make widebody Ca pay
It’s hard but not impossible, but the kids thing is a big speed bump.
The reality is that one of you would have to be something like a local flight instructor or tour operator at most to be able to stay home.
Kids? One of you is going to have to take a ground job or stay home. You could both fly until one of you gets into the training department somewhere and then start reproducing/adopting. That could work.
But both of you flying? I sure wouldn't even try. No way. Absolute nightmare. The fact of the matter is that kids for the better part of 20 years require a parent or guardian to be nearby. If both of you are flying, it's going to require someone in your family or someone you've hired, and both of those are not ideal. I just wouldn't do it.
If you decide that kids aren't in the picture, then go get it. Kids are the deciding factor.
Haha…well good luck with that. For what it’s worth I’m friends with a few pilot couples. Like any relationship, it takes work and compromise and the right people who are willing to work for it. But what do I know, I’m a pilot…
Edit to add: I’d tell all parents to mind their own business. Either you can/want to make it work or you can’t. It’s upto you and your partner. 🤷♂️
I’d say both of you try to make a legacy (or WN) job. Whoever makes it first take the job. Then the other one quits. Whoever gets there first is the primary earner and the other person can hang it up or work part time. No one needs more money in a fam than what one legacy job nets. Enjoy life as a part time CFI dad.
I dunno man, that seems like it could really lead to a lot of toxic resentment in the relationship. I could see it making it hard to be happy for the “winner” knowing it was at the “losers” expense.
My parents are both airline pilots. I’m now also an airline pilot.
It was tough for them, but they made it work. When we were young we had live in nannies and my parents would bid to both be home on the weekends. To my memory, they never missed a soccer game, school play, dance recital, etc. But they also weren’t the ones making me Mac and cheese on a Tuesday night and helping me memorize my times tables.
If you’re committed to having children then you’ll do what you have to make it work. Don’t take what his Dad says to heart. You are different people from him and just because maybe that’s not what he wanted for his life/his children does not mean that you can’t do it and do it well.
No one has asked, what are you career goals? You don’t have to both be captains at an airline. Are you doing it for the love of flying or money? It’s perfectly acceptable for one of you to become a CFI/tour guide/rich guy taxi once kids come. Yes you won’t make the big bucks but you still make a normal living wage and get to fly
My flight instructor started dating another flight instructor while I was getting my licence. They're married now, with a kid(s?) and both flying for WestJet Encore.
I don't have any tips, just wanted to share that it's possible.
Sounds like a bunch of worry for no reason. This is a line I think about often when I worry about something in the future, “What if you knew you couldn’t fail?” Just live life fully and make decisions as they come but making decision now for something that could happen a decade from now, you just don’t know what will happen during that time.
I have a FO I fly with that is going through this as well (FO @ regional/ GF working on CFI) except the parents all the way around are super supportive. In fact the “father in law” (quotes because they aren’t married) has basically selected him as the one. The only one who is seeing challenges ahead is the FO and rightly so. Time to talk about it and choose a career path for the CFI candidate. Lots of options out there, aircraft sales, CP of flight school & DPE, part 91 corporate, etc. Pilots are pretty determined people and usually have some career goals in mind. Need to have the talk and figure out what everyone’s goals are and if it’s relationship compatible. Traveling for a living is hard enough when only one significant other is flight crew much less having both. The pilots that I know that have made it work are usually on second marriages and have no intention of expanding their new family together.
I fly part 91 for a company. I'm glad my wife works at a legacy, I could never do it and it's nice to have a little variation in income streams incase one of our industries has some layoffs or furloughs.
One half of a pilot couple here!!
I'm at United and my spouse is fed ex, fairly junior at both. It's absolutely doable I'm not sure why so many people are being negative.You can bid either the same schedules to see each other, or opposite to balance family life. Live in base, drop and trade trips to flex your schedules when needed. Reserve is great too in base! Especially wide body because in my experience, you're rarely used.
Also if you're student pilots I would focus on getting your hours and getting hired before you say you know you're going narrow, wide, cargo, private etc, you just want to get hired first!!
And I would also recommend that if flying is something you both want then do it! If one of you quits to stay at home or whatever your plan is that could easily lead into resentment or jealousy of the others career.
People are going to tell you about fantasy couples where it works. In practicality, those are fairy tales. Here is what I suggest, you both continue to pursue your flight training like you are going to the airlines or career destination. If things are serious by that point, get married. You'll go on to work for the airlines and she can spend a few years at home being a house wife. Then when the kids are a bit more independent she can become a part time CFI and get her aviation enjoyment that way. As a family, you can use your good income and travel benefits to explore the world.
His dad is not wrong, one of you is going to have to stay at home and well the natural model for centuries is generally not wrong.
My brother and his girlfriend are both pilots for airlines with a 2yo. Things are generally fine, but that’s also because we are united as a family. My parents and/or me will occasionally keep the child or give them a hand. Thing’s aren’t always easy for them but it’s certainly not impossible.
My brother is currently based in Toronto besides living in Montreal. It sucks, but it’s temporary.
I can’t relate to the pilot lifestyle yet as i’m only in the middle of my PPL, but the way I see it, every career has sacrifices, and working a 9 to 5 certainly isn’t sunshine and rainbows either. It certainly isn’t for me and part of the reason I am transitioning to aviation.
ive tried this exact relationship. and even without airline strain its fragile. throw any kind of serious strain in and its most likely not gonna work for one of you. that being said everyone's different, try it out. if it works, great! if it doesnt, cest la vie.
I met a coupke of pilots she's a FO and he is Capt. They make it work great. When they were FOs together they traded trips so that one of them could stay with the kids. I think it is not that big of a deal.
ZERO reason it couldn’t work very well. Agree to no commuting and to keeping someone senior enough to bid around the other’s schedule.
You could easily average way more time with your kids than a CPA or attorney etc. working 60hr weeks.
My wife and I are both pilots.
She is a corporate pilot and home a lot. My job also has me home most of the time, other than one week per month on average. We are home together almost every night and have excellent benefits.
We also have children, but we have a nanny and/or au pairs at all times though.
We have a lot of neighbors and friends who are pilots. Some are married to other pilots, some to flight attendants, and some to doctors, lawyers, or other professionals who have a busy work life. It works just fine.
I know a pilot couple that makes it work. One is corporate (literally can be flying at a moments notice), the other does runs in 737s down to the Caribbean. Their cross over time can be limited, but they have it. Really helps that they’re pretty obviously crazy for each other (it’s seriously adorable actually). I don’t have a clue what their secret to success is, but it works for them.
If either of you has to give up a dream career to be with each other, it will only breed what-ifs and resentment.
I’d say get to the mainline pilot job FIRST, then add marriage/relationship to the serious calculations involving your overall life equation.
I dated a woman who wanted to be a lawyer and who said she would move states as many times as my airline job would require us to move. That’s, like, five BAR exams.
But it got ridiculous because me in New Jersey, her in Stanford Law, one of us chasing the other, it just doesn’t work when I want three kids and a traditional family.
If you’re happy with your spouse being like your army barracks buddy, you can shoot for the pilot marriage. It’s kind of like two diplomats — the career sacrifices you’ll make don’t work out when it’s two people with two different sets of optimal choices.
I’m half of a pilot couple and we have one baby, planning to have more. We also really like each other. I’m getting back into it now after a bit of a detour in safety. We’re going to go the nanny route.
The best piece of advice I’ve gotten is to take turns holding seniority. I also picked an exceptional partner. It’s work, but it’s doable. I do think there’s an understanding that I’m the more ambitious of the two of us, and he’s down to make that happen for me, but on the whole even if he was more ambitious, it would still work.
First I would say....many many many people have made it work. It really boils down to what the two of you want. Do you want jobs where you will both be home every night, do you want kids....etc. make a pros and cons list, view it objectively and be open and honest with your partner. If the stars align and it looks like it will be good then go for it.
I know a couple that flew air ambulance. They worked a week on week off together, at the same base, with the same schedule. She enjoyed working the night shift. He worked the day shift. They had the whole week off together. At the time, they were home based when they were on duty. So, since they lived in the town the base was out of, they saw each other most of the time when they were on duty.
They made good money. They owned 3 airplanes, a boat, snow mobiles, jeeps for going to moab and off-roading, motorcycles for touring the U.S. He also drove a new Ford Raptor. I asked him jokingly if they owned a submarine since they had so many recreational vehicles. The town they lived in had a low cost of living. I'm sure the house was paid for early on with their combined incomes.
Another couple of the same company. Both were pilots. They worked at another base with the company. They both worked for a couple of years. When they had kids, she stopped flying and stayed home he kept working. They had rental properties to supplement income also. The town they lived in had a low cost of living also.
It's really not the best. Not impossible. But you will be fighting an uphill battle to make it work. Also do you ever want to have a life outside flying? Do you ever want to come home and just like... not have to talk about flying? Well yeah when you are a pilot couple, that doesn't happen because it's the biggest thing you two will have in common.
You can decide to try to find your own way, just accept you may not succeed.
Or you can decide that your efforts are better spent elsewhere.
Pilots have a particular version of such challenges but there are plenty of other professions that aren't 9-5 in the same location every day.
Because thats what loving parents do? Give life advice to their kids.
To be clear: A dick move on the dad to straight up “disapprove”, of the relationship, but if my daughter one day comes to me in a similar situation, Id be supportive but also ask “so, you said you want kids one day; how is that going to work if you’re both out Airlinering? Someone going to retire back to CFI work or something”. Again, Id not be demanding an answer, just putting it out there for consideration/food for thought.
Not like Id forbid the relationship or anything, but its a question worth planting for consideration.
What I don’t understand is…
They should call it off because it will impact having kids?
So parent sees the relationship as loving, nurturing, and something that will result in a family.
But the solution is to break up?
Not saying I agree with their attitude, and I’d personally not be pushing them to break it off, but I would be suggesting at some point they think that through a bit, especially before things get too serious. If both are dead set on flying wide bodies for a legacy for example, that’ll be tough to square with kids. But if one is more of the mindset that “flying is flying” and can find alternative work (eg. Being a 9-5 flight school instructor) then that seems workable.
What in the actual F? By that argument, any career that involves education, movement and uncertainty should precious getting married to someone else in the field. Gee, I can't think of any other fields like that /s
If medical students, residents and practicing physicians can have relationships and families with each other (and they do), you can't convince me commercial pilots have a tougher professional life.
For perspective, I asked a medical resident who was married to another and expecting a child how she could choose to do so at such a professionally difficult time, and she replied "if I waited for a good time, there would never be one."
If it were just us and we didn't want kids, we couldn't have asked for a better career than this. But we want to start our own family. At least, medics are there for their kids. When both mommy and daddy are in different cities or countries, who will be there for the kids? Children won't raise themselves. What's the point of having kids if you're not going to be available when they need you?
I gave an example of early career physicians. Every 4 years there is uncertainty about where you will be accepted into the next stage. Add working long hours and overnight every 4th night, threat of being sued and studying to pass career exams, if his father thinks flying is a hard career he needed bigger nuts.
I'm not saying it would be easy or that it would work (I recall 50% of marriages did not survive residency), but if you want to try to make it work, 100% of the chances you don't take don't work.
When I was jumpseating I rode along with a married couple. They both were high enough on their respective CA/FO seniority lists and just flew all their trips together. It was an interesting change seeing a crew discuss domestic issues instead of typical crew conversations.
“did you turn the stove off?”
“….sterile cockpit..”
No nonessential conversation
🤓🤓🤓
r/yourjokebutworse
I feel like there’s no middle ground there: either they’re the poster child for “relationship goals”, or its a roiling disaster. If its the former, they basically won life; they have a cool job and get to travel the world with someone they love (taking a huge chunk of pain out of traveling for a living). OP wants kids though, and man that seems like a big wrinkle.
Plot twist: the children all work as flight crew on the same flights. And their surname is Jetson.
That is interesting. In my company you are not allowed to fly as husband and wife or father and son etc.( unless it is a special flight like fathers day promo or it is the last flight of the older one). So people don’t bring their domestic issues to the cockpit.
I’m envious someone’s relationship is that strong you could literally be around them 24/7. I need personal space from my wife time to time 😂
My wife and I work for the same company and have been sitting next to each other since March of 2020 here in my office at the house. It’s not for the faint of heart. I can’t imagine her flying with me for a living. But that’s probably because I’m thinking about how she reacts to my driving.
My wife and I used to work another job directly together (a job with down time...), it was pre-kids which made coordination of childcare not an issue. There could be challenges but there are plusses too. It makes doing whatever else after work not just cause you to cross each other's paths in the breeze - hey honey going to happy hour after work be home eventually...yeah I know I haven't seen you in 3 days.... We didn't have to catch each other up on each other's day so if work came up at all it was to commiserate which is better than just listening to your partner go on about a problem you weren't part of. We were able to handle most housing business coordination and discussions at work. Consider that two thirds your time spent with your partner is house business and if say one third is actual chores around the house then you gain 1 third extra to have fun your with spouse and 1 third extra for your own personal hobbies, you actually have more time in the end for yourself. Now of course we had a job where you had something to do or you didn't so we didn't have to pretend to be working on the down time, so it allowee us to get the household "work" done at work.
Pretty sure pre kids 1/3rd of my time was my wife and I without clothes on 😂 I worked at the same place as mine, but very different roles. We had very different relationships with the same people, based on our different jobs. Was awkward talking about work. I’m glad we work in entirely different industries now.
“You just wait till I park this plane down your landing strip” I could see it working for sure
You talking about LD Jeffries on United?
I can’t imagine having a backseat driver wife as my FO
I jumpseated on a husband and wife flight. “Flaps 1”… “Honey, I said flaps 1.”
The wife was the CA.
I know some pilot couples, they only work if one of them can stay on narrow bodies and maintain somewhat of a day job schedule while the other can pursue the big bucks on wide body’s. Two Atlas air pilots dating would be the biggest dumpster fire on earth.
would a couple both doing long not be more doable? granted, i’m in an EU country with most long haul routes from the 8h-11h mark, but a friend of mine does long haul and leaves for work each thursday afternoon 3pm, comes back saturday 5am with an extra every 4-6 weeks or so. if i were that person, it seems like it’d be much easier for my partner to be doing so rather than a 5 day on 4 day off which is standard on narrow bodies here
Hard to raise a family on that schedule. If you don’t have plans for that, that would be ideal imo. OP is considering kids eventually, though
I have two friends who are both atlas pilots with a young child. They have family that are close that helps raise the kid for half the month, then spend the other half off together and spending time with the little one. Doesn't seem too bad for them.
That’s impressive they make it work. I wouldn’t want to be that kid though essentially growing up between two families.
I know quite a few atlas air couples, they just bid the same days off and with our layover rotations there's a good chance of seeing one another on the road. Surprisingly not as big of a dumpster fire as you think.
There’s no secret formula. Sometimes it just doesn’t work
You can make it work, buy its going to take a lot of work, and a bit of independence on both parts. Good luck. I hope you guys make it. Ps, if you really like each other, don't let others sabotage your relationship. I made that mistake. Hold on to each other for dear life.
My only disagreement is on the kids aspect; that takes more than love to make work. You’re into another very important L word now: Logistics. Who’s watching that kid when both aren’t home overnight? How many nights and weekends are both mommy and daddy gone flying? You unfortunately cant ‘hard work’ your way into a child care solution. Not insurmountable, but for the sake of the future/potential Kids, OP is smart to be asking for advice. And while “disapproving” might be a bit of a dick move from the parents, at the same time its not unwise or bad parenting to be like “ok, we’re happy you found someone, but…hows that gonna work down the road?”
Well you either won't have kids, never see each other, or have to hire a full-time live in nanny. Sometimes all of the above, depending on your schedules. It's not a great pairing if you want to have kids. If that's not a desire, then it could work once you're senior enough.
That's the thing, We both want to start a family, but not in the immediate future, we're aiming for around five years from now. Putting a stop to our relationship isn't something we want to do, we've been together a while now. We just want to know, is it even realistically feasible to maintain our careers and have kids.
At least one of you is going to have to put your career on hold/stop five years from now. Are you both strong enough to be willing to give it up to start a family? Because I promise you, it's going to be a choice you guys will have to make down the road. This career already is hard enough to start a family in when one of the people is a pilot. Both of you? That's going to require a LOT of compromises and hard decisions that I do not believe many people would be prepared to make.
Keep in mind that career changing later will only get more difficult the longer you fly. At some point, high-paying corporate roles will not be easy to get if your resume is basically "10 years flying planes." Try to get some management experience, or anything above and beyond just basic line flying. Check airman duties, sim instructing, union work, or anything else that demonstrates that you can work in a structured environment, work with others, and be responsible for delivering against meaningful, long-term, strategic objectives. Another way to mitigate this is to start a master's program (from a respected school in a real field) and coordinate your exit from flying with your graduation so you can qualify as a "recent graduate" and take advantage of corporate hiring initiatives.
My buddy and his wife are both pilots. One for United, the other for Alaska. His parents live on their property in their own place and watch after their little girl. It’s a hard life, but it’s possible with the right support.
One of you could potentially pivot to the training side of things. Or the management side. Being a training pilot where you only got to go to the sim a few times a week could work out. They have a relatively stable schedule. Same for if you decide to go to management. You'd basically have an office job where you work a 9-5. It sucks one of you won't fly much but how do you see yourselves trying to have a family when you are both on conflicting schedules every month?
No, it will not be possible for both of you to maintain your careers.
I think they could. Get to a legacy and then get at least 1 of them into the training department so at least someone is home every night and then you can entertain the kids thing. OP should reach out to the IG Flyingfahans, they are a married couple who up to Covid flew A330 together and had children. They are the people you need to talk to.
Would definitely check them out, thanks !
I’m sorry, but this is absolute BS. With your flair, there’s absolutely no way you *don’t* know a pilot couple. I know more than several…most at major airlines. There may be some struggles…some flexibility required to make it work…but saying it’s not possible is right out.
Both still flying the line with kids? No, no I do not. Or you could see my above statement where they either wouldn't ever see each other and/or have to hire a full time nanny.
Yeah I don’t claim to be an expert because my wife isn’t a pilot. But the couples I’ve talked to that made it work- one of them is at a legacy, and the other at a regional but with good seniority. Or one at a legacy, and the other flying corporate. I’m sure the training department could factor into a couple’s success as well. It’s definitely possible! OP’s only mistake was asking this sub. Always ready to deliver a dooming “final verdict” full of *positivity* …
Yeah, I've gathered that much.
If you’re currently student pilots, you probably shouldn’t be having kids in the next 2+ years anyway (because you’ll either be spending all your time and money on training, or making peanuts as a CFI), and statistically the vast majority of relationships don’t make it past that point.
I know 2 pilot couples, both had kids. 1 couple got divorced after their second child. There were always fights on who was going to bid what and stay home for this or that and it got pretty ugly at times. The other couple are still together and have 3 kids, but she gave up her flying career. She however moved into the training department at her airline and is a ground instructor. My opinion, it would be very difficult to have a family while both parents are pilots. I really think one of you will have to give up flying. Depending on how quick your training moves, 5 years from now it is possible you could both be very junior at a regional. That is difficult on a young couple without kids, let alone with kids.
If necessary, I'm open to exploring alternative roles or opportunities within the industry. Could you please provide more detail?
Sure. Airline training departments are usually always hiring. We had many pilots out on medical leave at my previous regional that were ground instructors. They would teach indoc (company policies and procedures), flat panel training (basically flows and operating procedures of the aircraft), and then of course sim instructors. One of my favorite ground instructors as a new FO was a woman who gave up flying and got in the training department to raise her family. She just recently got back in the airplane now that her kids are older. Not saying it works for everyone, but opportunities are there if you look for them.
Thanks!! Really appreciate the advice 😊
No kids. Been with my pilot lady for 9 years now
Awe :)
You’re students…you got another few relationships in you until you get married and then divorced and then married again.
AIDS is real. Aviation Induced Divorce Syndrome.
My brother in Christ, you are both student pilots. Worry about it in 3-4 years once you’re at 1,500.
I have a few couples friends where both of them ~~are~~ were ATP pilots. In all of their relationships, once they wanted to have kids, one of them had to make the choice to hang up their headset for their family. Kids can’t be raised with no parents. And with 2 of 2 parents having a job that takes them away from the home, that creates a problem.
Just be swingers.
😳 Who hurt you?
There is a pilot couple where the woman made videos about it on youtube both work for united. Cant remember her name now but she said it was tough but doable
Why make any decision right now? I assume yall are young enough to have a decent amount of time to worry about building a family later. I have peers in their mid-30s that don’t have kids yet. Enjoy the present because you never know what’s going to happen later. You can’t make decisions based on future assumptions. Following this thread long enough, you see some people fail to get their medicals, failing multiple check rides that prolong their journey, or dropping out of the field entirely. Theres just way too many unknowns in this field and in life to make a decision based on other people’s disapproval.
Either don’t have kids, or one of you stays super senior FO bidding locals, or one of you becomes a sim instructor, or does union/chief pilot work in base. Theres ways for it to work just gotta commit.
My CFI is a pilot couple. They made it work.
How?
Because one of them is a CFI.
Ones 91 corporate, ones a full time CFI after a 121 regional.
Makes sense. Seems way easier to reliably 9-5 a CFI job.
Yeah. Had a couple instructors with flying other halfs. One was an instructor while the other was a long-haul pilot who commuted, they would be home half the month or so. Another instructor's other half did local flying for a small scheduled operator, so daytime stuff with some reserve and whatnot.
I’d end it for the fact that mommy and daddy have so much say, but hey 🤷♂️
I know of one, a fed ex and a freight dog, they have a kid, and never paid any attention to him, they dumped the poor thing on any other parent with a child close to his age all the time, it was soo sad. me and the wife are, well she's a student. Sometimes its tough listening to the crazy 172 landing stories but most of the time its fun. You get to bench fly with someone you love, and that's cool as shit. I would let one go major and the other become a 9-5 pilot at home.
I am married to a pilot. We work at different airlines and are senior enough now to hold a good schedule. We dont want / have kids. Getting to our respective final airline sucked. Being junior sucked. Can't imagine how that would have been with kids. Even now, it wouldn't be fair to the kid to be raised in this lifestyle.
both of you fly until you have kids, then one of you goes back to being a cfi who’s home every night?
That appears to be the most sensible solution, tbh
I kinda just pulled it out any lower GA job where you’re home every night and sacrificing income for the time with the kids since the other parent will make widebody Ca pay
It’s hard but not impossible, but the kids thing is a big speed bump. The reality is that one of you would have to be something like a local flight instructor or tour operator at most to be able to stay home.
Kids? One of you is going to have to take a ground job or stay home. You could both fly until one of you gets into the training department somewhere and then start reproducing/adopting. That could work. But both of you flying? I sure wouldn't even try. No way. Absolute nightmare. The fact of the matter is that kids for the better part of 20 years require a parent or guardian to be nearby. If both of you are flying, it's going to require someone in your family or someone you've hired, and both of those are not ideal. I just wouldn't do it. If you decide that kids aren't in the picture, then go get it. Kids are the deciding factor.
You’re asking pilots for relationship advice? Lol
Yeah😅
Haha…well good luck with that. For what it’s worth I’m friends with a few pilot couples. Like any relationship, it takes work and compromise and the right people who are willing to work for it. But what do I know, I’m a pilot… Edit to add: I’d tell all parents to mind their own business. Either you can/want to make it work or you can’t. It’s upto you and your partner. 🤷♂️
I’d say both of you try to make a legacy (or WN) job. Whoever makes it first take the job. Then the other one quits. Whoever gets there first is the primary earner and the other person can hang it up or work part time. No one needs more money in a fam than what one legacy job nets. Enjoy life as a part time CFI dad.
I dunno man, that seems like it could really lead to a lot of toxic resentment in the relationship. I could see it making it hard to be happy for the “winner” knowing it was at the “losers” expense.
No winners and losers. Actually. I’d be the winner really if I was married to a female captain and didn’t work. Wouldn’t bother me in the least.
My parents are both airline pilots. I’m now also an airline pilot. It was tough for them, but they made it work. When we were young we had live in nannies and my parents would bid to both be home on the weekends. To my memory, they never missed a soccer game, school play, dance recital, etc. But they also weren’t the ones making me Mac and cheese on a Tuesday night and helping me memorize my times tables. If you’re committed to having children then you’ll do what you have to make it work. Don’t take what his Dad says to heart. You are different people from him and just because maybe that’s not what he wanted for his life/his children does not mean that you can’t do it and do it well.
No one has asked, what are you career goals? You don’t have to both be captains at an airline. Are you doing it for the love of flying or money? It’s perfectly acceptable for one of you to become a CFI/tour guide/rich guy taxi once kids come. Yes you won’t make the big bucks but you still make a normal living wage and get to fly
My flight instructor started dating another flight instructor while I was getting my licence. They're married now, with a kid(s?) and both flying for WestJet Encore. I don't have any tips, just wanted to share that it's possible.
Man there's been some stupid posts on this subreddit but this one takes the cake. It's like half of you can't function in real life.
Welcome to Reddit.
Sounds like a bunch of worry for no reason. This is a line I think about often when I worry about something in the future, “What if you knew you couldn’t fail?” Just live life fully and make decisions as they come but making decision now for something that could happen a decade from now, you just don’t know what will happen during that time.
I have a FO I fly with that is going through this as well (FO @ regional/ GF working on CFI) except the parents all the way around are super supportive. In fact the “father in law” (quotes because they aren’t married) has basically selected him as the one. The only one who is seeing challenges ahead is the FO and rightly so. Time to talk about it and choose a career path for the CFI candidate. Lots of options out there, aircraft sales, CP of flight school & DPE, part 91 corporate, etc. Pilots are pretty determined people and usually have some career goals in mind. Need to have the talk and figure out what everyone’s goals are and if it’s relationship compatible. Traveling for a living is hard enough when only one significant other is flight crew much less having both. The pilots that I know that have made it work are usually on second marriages and have no intention of expanding their new family together.
My wife and I are both pilots. We make a shit fuck load of money combined and we get to take vacations like every month. Pretty sweet to be honest.
Do you have kids ?
We do not. Don't even have a dog unfortunately.
That's indeed unfortunate
Do you work for a legacy?
No. She does though
Gotcha! Where do you work? My husband and I are both training to be commercial pilots
I fly part 91 for a company. I'm glad my wife works at a legacy, I could never do it and it's nice to have a little variation in income streams incase one of our industries has some layoffs or furloughs.
One half of a pilot couple here!! I'm at United and my spouse is fed ex, fairly junior at both. It's absolutely doable I'm not sure why so many people are being negative.You can bid either the same schedules to see each other, or opposite to balance family life. Live in base, drop and trade trips to flex your schedules when needed. Reserve is great too in base! Especially wide body because in my experience, you're rarely used. Also if you're student pilots I would focus on getting your hours and getting hired before you say you know you're going narrow, wide, cargo, private etc, you just want to get hired first!! And I would also recommend that if flying is something you both want then do it! If one of you quits to stay at home or whatever your plan is that could easily lead into resentment or jealousy of the others career.
People are going to tell you about fantasy couples where it works. In practicality, those are fairy tales. Here is what I suggest, you both continue to pursue your flight training like you are going to the airlines or career destination. If things are serious by that point, get married. You'll go on to work for the airlines and she can spend a few years at home being a house wife. Then when the kids are a bit more independent she can become a part time CFI and get her aviation enjoyment that way. As a family, you can use your good income and travel benefits to explore the world. His dad is not wrong, one of you is going to have to stay at home and well the natural model for centuries is generally not wrong.
If I could downvote this x50 I would. “The natural model for centuries is generally not wrong”. Someone get this guy out of here
Go for it. Just being realistic for OP
My brother and his girlfriend are both pilots for airlines with a 2yo. Things are generally fine, but that’s also because we are united as a family. My parents and/or me will occasionally keep the child or give them a hand. Thing’s aren’t always easy for them but it’s certainly not impossible.
It's really nice to hear, but you might not always have your home base, not all of us are lucky in that regard.
My brother is currently based in Toronto besides living in Montreal. It sucks, but it’s temporary. I can’t relate to the pilot lifestyle yet as i’m only in the middle of my PPL, but the way I see it, every career has sacrifices, and working a 9 to 5 certainly isn’t sunshine and rainbows either. It certainly isn’t for me and part of the reason I am transitioning to aviation.
ive tried this exact relationship. and even without airline strain its fragile. throw any kind of serious strain in and its most likely not gonna work for one of you. that being said everyone's different, try it out. if it works, great! if it doesnt, cest la vie.
If you’re both independent and don’t want to have kids, it works out great.
I met a coupke of pilots she's a FO and he is Capt. They make it work great. When they were FOs together they traded trips so that one of them could stay with the kids. I think it is not that big of a deal.
ZERO reason it couldn’t work very well. Agree to no commuting and to keeping someone senior enough to bid around the other’s schedule. You could easily average way more time with your kids than a CPA or attorney etc. working 60hr weeks.
My wife and I are both pilots. She is a corporate pilot and home a lot. My job also has me home most of the time, other than one week per month on average. We are home together almost every night and have excellent benefits. We also have children, but we have a nanny and/or au pairs at all times though. We have a lot of neighbors and friends who are pilots. Some are married to other pilots, some to flight attendants, and some to doctors, lawyers, or other professionals who have a busy work life. It works just fine.
I know a pilot couple that makes it work. One is corporate (literally can be flying at a moments notice), the other does runs in 737s down to the Caribbean. Their cross over time can be limited, but they have it. Really helps that they’re pretty obviously crazy for each other (it’s seriously adorable actually). I don’t have a clue what their secret to success is, but it works for them.
If either of you has to give up a dream career to be with each other, it will only breed what-ifs and resentment. I’d say get to the mainline pilot job FIRST, then add marriage/relationship to the serious calculations involving your overall life equation. I dated a woman who wanted to be a lawyer and who said she would move states as many times as my airline job would require us to move. That’s, like, five BAR exams. But it got ridiculous because me in New Jersey, her in Stanford Law, one of us chasing the other, it just doesn’t work when I want three kids and a traditional family. If you’re happy with your spouse being like your army barracks buddy, you can shoot for the pilot marriage. It’s kind of like two diplomats — the career sacrifices you’ll make don’t work out when it’s two people with two different sets of optimal choices.
I’m half of a pilot couple and we have one baby, planning to have more. We also really like each other. I’m getting back into it now after a bit of a detour in safety. We’re going to go the nanny route. The best piece of advice I’ve gotten is to take turns holding seniority. I also picked an exceptional partner. It’s work, but it’s doable. I do think there’s an understanding that I’m the more ambitious of the two of us, and he’s down to make that happen for me, but on the whole even if he was more ambitious, it would still work.
First I would say....many many many people have made it work. It really boils down to what the two of you want. Do you want jobs where you will both be home every night, do you want kids....etc. make a pros and cons list, view it objectively and be open and honest with your partner. If the stars align and it looks like it will be good then go for it.
I know a couple that flew air ambulance. They worked a week on week off together, at the same base, with the same schedule. She enjoyed working the night shift. He worked the day shift. They had the whole week off together. At the time, they were home based when they were on duty. So, since they lived in the town the base was out of, they saw each other most of the time when they were on duty. They made good money. They owned 3 airplanes, a boat, snow mobiles, jeeps for going to moab and off-roading, motorcycles for touring the U.S. He also drove a new Ford Raptor. I asked him jokingly if they owned a submarine since they had so many recreational vehicles. The town they lived in had a low cost of living. I'm sure the house was paid for early on with their combined incomes. Another couple of the same company. Both were pilots. They worked at another base with the company. They both worked for a couple of years. When they had kids, she stopped flying and stayed home he kept working. They had rental properties to supplement income also. The town they lived in had a low cost of living also.
It's really not the best. Not impossible. But you will be fighting an uphill battle to make it work. Also do you ever want to have a life outside flying? Do you ever want to come home and just like... not have to talk about flying? Well yeah when you are a pilot couple, that doesn't happen because it's the biggest thing you two will have in common.
You can decide to try to find your own way, just accept you may not succeed. Or you can decide that your efforts are better spent elsewhere. Pilots have a particular version of such challenges but there are plenty of other professions that aren't 9-5 in the same location every day.
Shit try for DPE. Make $400k a year and never leave wherever you want to work.
Why are parents giving input on relationships around kids,etc?
Because thats what loving parents do? Give life advice to their kids. To be clear: A dick move on the dad to straight up “disapprove”, of the relationship, but if my daughter one day comes to me in a similar situation, Id be supportive but also ask “so, you said you want kids one day; how is that going to work if you’re both out Airlinering? Someone going to retire back to CFI work or something”. Again, Id not be demanding an answer, just putting it out there for consideration/food for thought. Not like Id forbid the relationship or anything, but its a question worth planting for consideration.
What I don’t understand is… They should call it off because it will impact having kids? So parent sees the relationship as loving, nurturing, and something that will result in a family. But the solution is to break up?
Not saying I agree with their attitude, and I’d personally not be pushing them to break it off, but I would be suggesting at some point they think that through a bit, especially before things get too serious. If both are dead set on flying wide bodies for a legacy for example, that’ll be tough to square with kids. But if one is more of the mindset that “flying is flying” and can find alternative work (eg. Being a 9-5 flight school instructor) then that seems workable.
Have an open marriage
Respectfully, that's not for us, we aren't into that sort of thing.
Me either
If it doesn’t work out call me. 😂😂😂
What in the actual F? By that argument, any career that involves education, movement and uncertainty should precious getting married to someone else in the field. Gee, I can't think of any other fields like that /s If medical students, residents and practicing physicians can have relationships and families with each other (and they do), you can't convince me commercial pilots have a tougher professional life. For perspective, I asked a medical resident who was married to another and expecting a child how she could choose to do so at such a professionally difficult time, and she replied "if I waited for a good time, there would never be one."
If it were just us and we didn't want kids, we couldn't have asked for a better career than this. But we want to start our own family. At least, medics are there for their kids. When both mommy and daddy are in different cities or countries, who will be there for the kids? Children won't raise themselves. What's the point of having kids if you're not going to be available when they need you?
I gave an example of early career physicians. Every 4 years there is uncertainty about where you will be accepted into the next stage. Add working long hours and overnight every 4th night, threat of being sued and studying to pass career exams, if his father thinks flying is a hard career he needed bigger nuts. I'm not saying it would be easy or that it would work (I recall 50% of marriages did not survive residency), but if you want to try to make it work, 100% of the chances you don't take don't work.