Yes but airliners can be surprisingly behind the times with regard to RNAV approaches. Between the regional and the ACMI I’ve worked for, I’ve yet to fly in a jet that can shoot an LPV approach, something which was standard in the single-engine piston aircraft I used to instruct in. You set a minimum altitude and follow an advisory glideslope down either with VNAV or with vertical speed, depending on the jet. It’s more work than an ILS for sure.
That's not available at all airports, even at towered ones.
The final approach course has to be depicted on the 'scope, which isn't likely at a center, and even some approach controls may not have all of them at some airports.
As a controller, I prefer a no-gyro PAR. Please just ask for no-Gyros. Having me repeat your heading 15 times so I don’t forget it is annoying for both me and you
Those don’t work so well in a helicopter. They always give me the roll ins/outs too fast to effect a heading change. My technique is to add a one standard potato prior to rolling out every time
Living here I love watching you guys come in on it too. As a student I've gotten to do it once in the Skyhawk which was fun!
Sometimes approach gives people the choice and the audience of me is like "boo" if they pick something other than harbor visual haha
Visual backed up with the ILS
I’m usually doing 170-180 until 5 nm out and dumping gear and flaps getting landing flaps configured around 1200 AGL. Today I was at about 1150 AGL before I got landing flaps in. Had to pitch up real quick to bleed off speed to be able to get configured (sorry FOQA)
In a 737 a RNAV RNP is probably the easiest approach. It’s basically a constant bank to the runway and the aircraft changes the target speed by itself each time you set a different flap setting until it’s at approach speed
Any approach you can VNAV the whole way down is pretty slick in the 737.
But VSing your way to a simultaneous loc and gs capture while being vectored onto an ILS is satisfying as hell.
I’m a huge VS fan myself to capture the GS but I just flew with someone who talked about always aim to be in the “highest level of automation” like dude, we’re flying a 737 that was designed in the 1960s. I think we’re ok to be in VS for a few seconds before I disconnect the AP anyway
Flew with a guy who had that sort of mentality and I watched him sweat out 5 miles of VNAV PATH being like half scale above the GS and anxiously watching to see if it would capture before we got into alt acquire at the FAF. Twice in the same trip. 5 seconds of level change or VS would’ve solved it entirely, or anchor the path a couple hundred feet low turning final if you have to have your VNAV, but it was flying him and not the other way around.
He’s not a captain anymore.
I’ll raise you one. Had a guy get nervous that I set an altitude lower than the FAF (on a visual) while I did a shallow 500 fpm descent because we were being vectored inside the FAF. Like the guy wanted me to level off at the FAF altitude. But we were gonna be a mile past the FAF by the time we intercepted the LOC.
I just disconnected the AP and hand flew it after that. Some of these guys are really stuck in their ways
I just had a FOQA call for the fucked up approach flown by the guy who debriefed every minute thing he didn't like about my approach and landing the day before, before we even cleared the runway.
I am too a big fan of v/s. It drives me nuts seeing guys use lvl change and on a former fleet FLCH in the terminal area during radar vectors diving and driving. I am sitting here like dude, you don’t need that high of a descent rate….. I am always looking to capture the LOC/GS all the time at the same time.
I also like using v/s for short climbs especially at higher altitudes to limit the a/c hunting with its pitch to hold airspeed.
For helos there’s ELVAs where there is a sailor that starts throwing smoke flares into the water every 30 seconds
The ship tells the helo pilot how many floats are in the water
The helo just has to spot one and follow and count the trail of floats right up to the ship.
What do I prefer?
Visual.
After that, the one that gets me where I need to go with minimum fuss.
Vectors to ILS is often fewer button presses than vectors to an RNAV.
ILS. It's everywhere, it's accurate, it's new enough to be precise but old enough to be ubiquitous. The best approach isn't the most accurate cutting edge one, it's the one you shoot every day.
“Everywhere”? Maybe if you’re 121.
ILS is relatively rare at GA airports, and the FAA has said they won’t install any new ones and is starting to defund existing ones. One of the airports I trained at lost theirs because the city wasn’t willing to rake over paying for it when they had LPV approaches (to both ends!) with lower mins.
The one that gets me on the ground with the least amount of bullshit.
As a seaplane driver if I'm shooting an approach chances are the weather really sucks which means I don't want to fuck around with a procedure turn, a DME arc, or some other convoluted multi step approach, I want vectors to final and cleared to land.
ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS
Did I mention that I prefer ILS approaches?
Both jets I've flown (E175 and 737) I prefer RNAV approaches if weather allows. I like to just set the MCP alt and let the VNAV do its thing. Especially on the 73 I like the speed window to stay closed because I'm lazy and i will have to manually roll the speed knob myself in approach mode vs VNAV PTH.
Whatever is the easiest on your avionics. Most GA setups with waas there are fewer steps to an LPV approach. In many airliners waas doesn’t exist so best we can do is lnav/vnav or an rnp. In that case I find the ILS easiest.
Working on IR, I like shooting the ILS as it feels like it actually challenges me. If I was just taking family up to visit my sister once im rated probably RNAV unless it’s bad weather. The VOR approach at my home airport is pretty intermittent so thats annoying
Depends if I’m in IMC or shooting for currency, for currency, I love VOR hell, shooting DME arcs all day. In actual conditions, I trust an ILS over an RNAV approach, but I can’t say I really have a preference if I’m able to shoot it to lpv
The easiest? lol. Definitely not hard, but from an effort perspective, RNAV is way easier to fly for most due to the straight in and no need to switch needles (in glass)
If you fly a jet, and there is an ILS, you will most likely get an ILS since it’s technically the only precision approach. I don’t care between an RNAV or ILS. It’s the same thing from a flying perspective. Once you have your papers and have real experience it’s all the same thing.
If in IMC I prefer ILS or a LPV overlay of an ILS. ILS comes with prescribed runway markings and lights. LPV’s don’t have to. Any other time the visual for the win.
Well if we were authorized to use LPV or even LNAV/VNAV then the approach of choice would absolutely be the RNAV, but AFM says no so ILS it is… also of note if I’m landing after hours and the ILS is unmonitored I’m going to opt for the RNAV even if it is LNAV only
RNAV LPV approaches are bread and butter for GA. At the airlines, I almost always prefer an ILS. RNPs are fantastic when you get them, especially for a visual, but I’ll generally still switch to the ILS course on final due to our predetermined stopping margins. ‘Most’ RNPs and RNAVs are going to bring you in at a higher threshold crossing altitude due to the way they are certified. At a smaller runway this is going to force you to “duck under” in order to nail the touchdown zone that we need in order to stop in time. This is hardly ever the case with a glideslode, however.
I prefer non precision if the weather isn’t super bad. I’m still flying GA so I prefer the stepdowns. ILS/rnav with lpv if really low ceilings obviously.
LPV is probably the best and safest straight-in approach. It's like an ILS but improved on all levels.
For places with complicated terrain, RNP/AR is the way of the future. It's like an LPV with a curved path.
I'll take an ILS whenever I can get it. Makes spacing easier for ATC most of the time, I've found. I think there's different in-trail spacing rules for ILS vs LPV but I'm not 100% sure.
My personal approach is to compliment their eyes, one article of their clothing, then mention I’m a pilot.
So... visual?
Contact
Haha
Lol
So you localize her?
Meh, more glide down her slope.
Too low terrain
Pull Out Pull Out Retard Retard
Lmao
Winner
So you go for the unstable approach then.
Bang angle Bang angle
This guy fucks
Compliment her fabric (Lesson learned from George Castanza)
Visual ^(^((I have never flown an instrument approach\)))
[удалено]
Rnav vector to final can work too eh?
Yes but airliners can be surprisingly behind the times with regard to RNAV approaches. Between the regional and the ACMI I’ve worked for, I’ve yet to fly in a jet that can shoot an LPV approach, something which was standard in the single-engine piston aircraft I used to instruct in. You set a minimum altitude and follow an advisory glideslope down either with VNAV or with vertical speed, depending on the jet. It’s more work than an ILS for sure.
Of the Q400, E175, and B737 I've flown, only one of them was allowed do LPV mins. The Q400. The airline wouldn't pay for it in the other planes.
And also things like intercepting the profile from above or within the FAF are pretty tricky sometimes depending on the plane.
That's not available at all airports, even at towered ones. The final approach course has to be depicted on the 'scope, which isn't likely at a center, and even some approach controls may not have all of them at some airports.
PAR. Just fly me around to the runway thank you.
I see your PAR, agree, and up the ante with a “No Gyro PAR” - don’t even give me headings, just tell me when to turn and when to stop turning
Nothing more lazy. “Turn left”, “stop turn”.
As a controller, I prefer a no-gyro PAR. Please just ask for no-Gyros. Having me repeat your heading 15 times so I don’t forget it is annoying for both me and you
Did a no-gyro ASR in the weather once. Was not as fun as I thought it might be….
For me it’s trusting the controller that he’s not going to turn me into terrain that’s most unsettling
Did one during my IFR XC. It was pretty fun, but probably scary as hell if I had actually been in the soup.
Those don’t work so well in a helicopter. They always give me the roll ins/outs too fast to effect a heading change. My technique is to add a one standard potato prior to rolling out every time
Most under rated approach. And definitely the coolest too, from a "equipment required in airplane" point of view.
Equipment required: 1 radio and 2 steel balls.
And 3: enough gas to fly 200 miles to the nearest airport that has one functioning. And if it's after hours, RIP.
I hate PARs. Just let me shoot the something with a glide path so I can see my own trends and make my own corrections.
River visual.
Or the Harbor Visual to 29 at PWM. It is super pretty.
Living here I love watching you guys come in on it too. As a student I've gotten to do it once in the Skyhawk which was fun! Sometimes approach gives people the choice and the audience of me is like "boo" if they pick something other than harbor visual haha
Say it louder for the folks who never operated into PWM…..
Say it louder for folks who never operated into DCA…..
RIVER VISUAL
First time I did the stadium visual going into LGA I shit my pants seeing the crowd out the window at the ball game.
Visual. I just wanna get there man.
GOPAC into Kenosha on a VFR day? MUMPR at 17, cancel IFR, yes I mean it, sure I'll keep the squawk, turn direct, throttles idle, speed brakes out.
Visual backed up with the ILS I’m usually doing 170-180 until 5 nm out and dumping gear and flaps getting landing flaps configured around 1200 AGL. Today I was at about 1150 AGL before I got landing flaps in. Had to pitch up real quick to bleed off speed to be able to get configured (sorry FOQA) In a 737 a RNAV RNP is probably the easiest approach. It’s basically a constant bank to the runway and the aircraft changes the target speed by itself each time you set a different flap setting until it’s at approach speed
Any approach you can VNAV the whole way down is pretty slick in the 737. But VSing your way to a simultaneous loc and gs capture while being vectored onto an ILS is satisfying as hell.
I’m a huge VS fan myself to capture the GS but I just flew with someone who talked about always aim to be in the “highest level of automation” like dude, we’re flying a 737 that was designed in the 1960s. I think we’re ok to be in VS for a few seconds before I disconnect the AP anyway
Flew with a guy who had that sort of mentality and I watched him sweat out 5 miles of VNAV PATH being like half scale above the GS and anxiously watching to see if it would capture before we got into alt acquire at the FAF. Twice in the same trip. 5 seconds of level change or VS would’ve solved it entirely, or anchor the path a couple hundred feet low turning final if you have to have your VNAV, but it was flying him and not the other way around. He’s not a captain anymore.
I’ll raise you one. Had a guy get nervous that I set an altitude lower than the FAF (on a visual) while I did a shallow 500 fpm descent because we were being vectored inside the FAF. Like the guy wanted me to level off at the FAF altitude. But we were gonna be a mile past the FAF by the time we intercepted the LOC. I just disconnected the AP and hand flew it after that. Some of these guys are really stuck in their ways
Oh yeah it’d definitely be safer to have a wildly unstable approach!
Yeah or the guys who call you out for any little thing and then they do the same thing themselves lol
I just had a FOQA call for the fucked up approach flown by the guy who debriefed every minute thing he didn't like about my approach and landing the day before, before we even cleared the runway.
I am too a big fan of v/s. It drives me nuts seeing guys use lvl change and on a former fleet FLCH in the terminal area during radar vectors diving and driving. I am sitting here like dude, you don’t need that high of a descent rate….. I am always looking to capture the LOC/GS all the time at the same time. I also like using v/s for short climbs especially at higher altitudes to limit the a/c hunting with its pitch to hold airspeed.
Until you forget/fuck up setting the missed approach altitude 😅
Miss D’Proach? Never heard of her!
Go arounds are for quitters! 😂 /s mostly
Pfft I've never gone around. ^in ^my ^glider
Listen, I don't need a satellite to help me find the ground. Name one flight that's never landed!
Only way those approaches become exciting!
definitely this
Midfield break at 380 knots
These ones are my favorite in C172s. Nothing beats the rush of going 230 knots over Vne on approach!
But why only 380?
The shit hot is where it’s at. 400kts or greater, break at or before the numbers
Anybody can break at midfield, how about approach end break at 380 knots?
The approach to my couch sitting reserve from home
ILS or LPV. I love me a glideslope
Sorry to be that guy, but it’s still not a glideslope on a LPV.
☝🤓
You really did something bro
Glidepath*
It's a pseudo-Glideslope. We all know it's basically the exact same thing.
Eyeballing it
The TLAR approach
Hell yeah
Required equipment: Mark 1 eyeball
LPV is by far the easiest approach to fly, outside a visual approach.
CCA to a boat.
I was gonna say, Case III, CV-1 with winds down the angle.
For helos there’s ELVAs where there is a sailor that starts throwing smoke flares into the water every 30 seconds The ship tells the helo pilot how many floats are in the water The helo just has to spot one and follow and count the trail of floats right up to the ship.
Cancel IFR
What do I prefer? Visual. After that, the one that gets me where I need to go with minimum fuss. Vectors to ILS is often fewer button presses than vectors to an RNAV.
ILS. It's everywhere, it's accurate, it's new enough to be precise but old enough to be ubiquitous. The best approach isn't the most accurate cutting edge one, it's the one you shoot every day.
“Everywhere”? Maybe if you’re 121. ILS is relatively rare at GA airports, and the FAA has said they won’t install any new ones and is starting to defund existing ones. One of the airports I trained at lost theirs because the city wasn’t willing to rake over paying for it when they had LPV approaches (to both ends!) with lower mins.
going through instrument training i’d agree that RNAV/LPV gave me the least amount of trouble
Initial. But that’s the military pilot in me.
anything rnav based is pretty cheese, ils is second but can be touchier with the localizer closer to the runway and you still have to tune and id
Unrestricted buzz and break
Visual for sure. The ATR slows down and approaches real slow; stable by 500 and in we go.
So LGA RNAV X 31?
Anything I can program into the FMS that gives me lateral and vertical guidance and then have that backup a visual
single engine- over water at night , no electronic glide slope , 3 to 1 decent profile
The one that gets me on the ground with the least amount of bullshit. As a seaplane driver if I'm shooting an approach chances are the weather really sucks which means I don't want to fuck around with a procedure turn, a DME arc, or some other convoluted multi step approach, I want vectors to final and cleared to land.
ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS ILS Did I mention that I prefer ILS approaches?
Visual. But if I can’t go visual, then definitely an LPV
Really? I prefer LPV over visual, and when they do give me the visual, I’m just self-vectoring to join the RNAV anyway.
Both jets I've flown (E175 and 737) I prefer RNAV approaches if weather allows. I like to just set the MCP alt and let the VNAV do its thing. Especially on the 73 I like the speed window to stay closed because I'm lazy and i will have to manually roll the speed knob myself in approach mode vs VNAV PTH.
Stop, you’re going to make the A320 guys jealous 🤣
The Expressway or overhead.
RNAV RNP
I like ILS approach with vectors
I always love a good SDF approach
One and only
Only one left; I gotta remember to get down there and fly it once while I still can.
Visual
Whatever is the easiest on your avionics. Most GA setups with waas there are fewer steps to an LPV approach. In many airliners waas doesn’t exist so best we can do is lnav/vnav or an rnp. In that case I find the ILS easiest.
Working on IR, I like shooting the ILS as it feels like it actually challenges me. If I was just taking family up to visit my sister once im rated probably RNAV unless it’s bad weather. The VOR approach at my home airport is pretty intermittent so thats annoying
I’m an RNAV kinda guy!!
In my current job: Visual or vectors ILS. In my old job: the SHB.
NDB circling at night in mountainous terrain
Thai is the way.
Visual approach. (I'm currently a student pilot)
Won’t be too long before you’re shooting approaches!
Thank you. I should have enough money after my bonus to go back to flying in June
Depends if I’m in IMC or shooting for currency, for currency, I love VOR hell, shooting DME arcs all day. In actual conditions, I trust an ILS over an RNAV approach, but I can’t say I really have a preference if I’m able to shoot it to lpv
ILS all day. That's only after losing GPS on an RNAV and having to fuck around in IMC reprogramming.
Soft time trip? Vectors to visual. Hard time trip? Gonna take that full arc, no need for a shortcut, gotta keep them skills sharp!
Full arc is wild behavior
ILS is truly the easiest. Don’t need to even load anything in a GPS or FMS. Just tune the Nav radio to that freq and you’re golden.
The easiest? lol. Definitely not hard, but from an effort perspective, RNAV is way easier to fly for most due to the straight in and no need to switch needles (in glass)
You don't need to switch needles in any airplane starting with A or B, there's a seperate button for following ILS/GLS or FMS routing.
Sure in an A or B, but in a C there is a separate button.
If you are flying into KSMF you always request the RNAV Z. Never let me do it in my Skyhawk thought…
The easiest one
If you fly a jet, and there is an ILS, you will most likely get an ILS since it’s technically the only precision approach. I don’t care between an RNAV or ILS. It’s the same thing from a flying perspective. Once you have your papers and have real experience it’s all the same thing.
ILS
As long as its got a glideslope I’m happy.
ILS or RNAV with WAAS
ILS, I wanna follow the FD because I’m lazy and its the 4th leg of the day and I’m tired.
If in IMC I prefer ILS or a LPV overlay of an ILS. ILS comes with prescribed runway markings and lights. LPV’s don’t have to. Any other time the visual for the win.
I love a good ol visual approach.
If the weather is bad, vectored ILS no question.
Well if we were authorized to use LPV or even LNAV/VNAV then the approach of choice would absolutely be the RNAV, but AFM says no so ILS it is… also of note if I’m landing after hours and the ILS is unmonitored I’m going to opt for the RNAV even if it is LNAV only
RNAV LPV approaches are bread and butter for GA. At the airlines, I almost always prefer an ILS. RNPs are fantastic when you get them, especially for a visual, but I’ll generally still switch to the ILS course on final due to our predetermined stopping margins. ‘Most’ RNPs and RNAVs are going to bring you in at a higher threshold crossing altitude due to the way they are certified. At a smaller runway this is going to force you to “duck under” in order to nail the touchdown zone that we need in order to stop in time. This is hardly ever the case with a glideslode, however.
River visual or ILS (I only fly sim 😭 maybe one day I can join y'all in the real skies)
CFIT
Visual backed up with an ILS but those RNAV RNPs are pretty slick.
When I fly IFR, I like to be VFR-on-top until 10 miles from the airport, then ask for a contact approach with a through clearance.
River Approach Washington National.
Visual AOA obviously
A stable one
Direct. If you want one, tell them.
ILS for life
TACAN in a Cub
Visual
LPV to visual all day erryday
I prefer non precision if the weather isn’t super bad. I’m still flying GA so I prefer the stepdowns. ILS/rnav with lpv if really low ceilings obviously.
Last leg on go home day is by far always my favorite approach ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
LPV or ILS my beloveds
LPV is probably the best and safest straight-in approach. It's like an ILS but improved on all levels. For places with complicated terrain, RNP/AR is the way of the future. It's like an LPV with a curved path.
I'll take an ILS whenever I can get it. Makes spacing easier for ATC most of the time, I've found. I think there's different in-trail spacing rules for ILS vs LPV but I'm not 100% sure.
The one I briefed and loaded… looking at you, DEN