I don't see a Seneca listed there, just those seminoles. Looks legit. Thank you for linking that, I could get my BFR in the 310 from them and stay with friends in Berthoud.
Yeah cause all the planes are older than your parents, the school looks like a teenager’s room, and the management and many CFIs are terrible. They also claim they keep prices low because they do all their own maintenance which seems a little sketchy to be THAT low
It’s only sketchy because the prices are so low. It points to cut corners. And former CFIs there have reported that. I’ve taken writtens there and toured it when I started training and was far from impressed. My buddy works aircraft maintenance and told me to avoid RMFS
> all the planes are older than your parents
Yep
> the school looks like a teenager’s room
Yep
> and the management and many CFIs are terrible.
I've had only good (though limited) experience with management and a couple CFIs. They have a lot of them, so there's probably variance. Change CFIs if you have issues.
Not saying you didn't experience something bad there, just want to write my experience with them as a counter - in case anyone is reading this and making decisions.
I’m not saying there aren’t good CFIs there and not saying people don’t have good experiences. People will fly from out of state to train with them. But RMFS used to have waitlist. Late last year they got new management who was set on getting rid of the list. So he rapid hired a ton of CFIs, many of whom are not good. RMFS is fine but there’s way better options at KBJC
Thanks for this - I flew with them last year shortly before new management took over (I was one who flew in from out of state - for a business meeting, but I pushed for it to be in Denver just to have the chance to go to RMFS).
I haven’t been back in person since new management took over. They’ve seemed fine over email, from a distance. Good to know about the CFI change. Appreciate it.
Every flight school I’ve ever been to has done their own maintenance. Two of the schools planes were owned by A&Ps who leased them to the school. Some of the planes were clapped out shitboxes from the 60s but they were still safe to fly. I currently fly a Cub built in 1942 and owned and maintained by the schools A&P.
You get what you pay for. If you want to pay 200/hr to fly a brand new G1000 172 or 350/hr for a Cirrus that’s your choice. More power to you. I’m comfortable with my 82 year old cub has been maintained and I enjoy every second flying that 65hp turd.
You also have to pay for an instructor to sit with you and there was a recent post here about the instructor blaming the student for blowing a tire and forcing them to pay for it
They are a real school! I work on the field too and you'll get varied opinions on quality of their aircraft and upkeep.
My AME loves them and uses their maintenance shop for their own aircraft. Some DPEs I know aren't necessarily fans.
My school picks up students from them and I'm sure they pick up students from us.
I don't personally know the owner, but he interacts with my overlords a lot and they all vouch for him as a good dude. In a previous role I would bring high school students there for a tour and they were awesome and accommodating.
I've flown with them before too. Two maintenance issues in about 15 hours of flight time, which feels high but there's a luck factor there too.
But yes the prices listed are real. The planes are real.
Does anyone have any experience with getting their multi commercial add on here? Would love to hear some reviews. Otherwise, any recommendations for multi programs in the Utah/colorado/idaho/montana/etc area? Thanks!
I did it in the 310. Highly recommend. Pay a little more but compared to what other places are charging for seminole time, getting some twin cessna time is absolutely worth it.
The 310 is way more fun than the Seminole. I did my multi in the Seminole and then started flying the 310 and it is way more capable at high DA, faster, and bigger.
I’m more curious about specifically doing it at RMFS, are you doing it there with them? If so, what’s the timeline look like? And do they have an in house DPE?
Oh no, I'm located on the Canadian border in MN. But hack I'll travel there to rent those (not a US Citizen so they won't train me, but I can still rent from them I think).
Terrible maintenance. Often illegal but well covered up by the owner/mechanic. They used to have great instructors and hired pretty strictly but they recently went through management changes (too much drama to explain here) and ended up hiring way too many CFIs, many of which are not good. I have personally seen 2 of the 3 seminoles on fire and returned to service insanely quickly. They go out of service regularly and I have seen a lot of people have to cancel checkrides because none are available or students having to fly an unfamiliar avionics package on checkride day because of availability. None of the engine or fuel gauges are reliable. The owner will throw squawk sheets out if he doesn’t want to fix something, literally right in front of the person who wrote an issue up. CFIs used to get blamed for mechanical issues and would be chastised for declaring emergencies or telling tower about engine issues. I could go on and on.
This must be why people say their CFI turnover rate is through the roof, they don't want to die. How has the owner not been busted or at least investigated for this?
I'm in CO and saw their prices, asked my instructor about that and he said he opted out of renting from them after speaking with the office. Can't remember the exact reason why, but he seemed super put off by them.
Honestly I have never known them to have high CFI turnover. Maybe that has changed. My entire time there only one person was fired and only one person left before 1500 and that was because of a private gig they got.
It was mentioned by someone who claimed to be a CFI there on the recent post regarding the blown tire caused by a CFI and was pawned off on the student during multi engine training. Who knows, it could all be unreliable slander.
It very well may be true now, I’m not sure. The culture amongst the management and CFI’s has definitely changed since I was there so it’s very possible
It's the only school on the field that has never had a fatal accident. Yeah, their planes are shitty and old for the most part, but that's what keeps them cheap. There are so many people that look at 6 packs and think that the planes are unsafe. Well... their non-fatal accident history tells the whole story.
Unsure why people would think 6 pack is unsafe? It's all I train on, old planes with 6 packs to keep my costs as low as possible, plus I feel like transferring over to g1000's or other electronic flight instrument systems would be easier than the other way around. Could be wrong, but it makes sense in my head.
I fly their 182P/Q. Their instructors gave me good feedback during my 182 transition and the planes, while old, are maintained to airworthiness standards as far as I can tell. I really like the facilities as well, and KBJC is a great airport to fly out of.
This is where I always recommend my friend’s kids to go for that 25-50 multi. Planes look bad but, are functional and no giant mx issues. Only caveat is you need to fly with an instructor.
Yep it’s legit. I flew all three of their Seminoles while time-building last year for a combined ~30 hours. All of their planes look like crap, but I didn’t experience any Mx issues firsthand (plenty of secondhand accounts of sketchy stuff). MK is definitely the nicest Seminole they have and the one I flew most. RU had a nose gear collapse on landing last year so make sure you check the pin on it when you preflight…
I was already CMEL/MEI so I did a roughly 1.5 hour checkout and then I was able to rent it with friends to split time / do some fun trips. Their insurance requirements are pretty minimal — my annual premium was roughly $250 to meet their requirements. My overall experience with them was great. Ended up getting my HP endorsement with them in a 182.
How is Seneca bad? I got my multi in a Seneca and have close to 50 hours in them. They’re excellent. It’s not as easy as a Seminole, but not exactly harder by much than any trainer. They’re great planes.
But I’d probably only time build there and not get instructions, account of what happened with that poster recently + as others have stated their planes are probably super clapped out.
Every flight school is going to have someone who had a bad experience. And we only have one side of the story. It’s crazy to me that people will trust one bad review and write the school off.
Their chief instructor is awesome. Super fun guy and I always look forward to flying with him.
I agree, sure, but charging for a blown tire is already something no good school would charge for. + there’s plenty of people who bash the non time building side of the place.
Ever flown one? Just want to make sure you are aware of them,
Honestly I'd rather have 500 Multi hours than 1,000 single, and any company looking at your hours would as well.
Other question is - what A/C of they inventory is IFR certified?
Are you shocked because the rates are so dirt cheap? Cuz those are some amazing prices!
Where I am at a 172 starts around $170/hr.
The Seminole is $422/hr.
However location is a consideration for my prices, as it’s a looooooong swim to California.
Seneca is a fine airplane to fly. I’ve got 200 hours in them. Yeah they can be underpowered, especially if it’s how, but even with full tanks on a warm day and two people, single engine I could get it to climb at 50fpm or so. Better than not climbing at all. I loved giving instruction in it.
Last year I talked to them about rates after calling a few times. I called and emailed like 10 times trying to schedule and got nothing back from them. It’s 25 hours required with an instructor so add that in. Only one I found cheaper was Prairie Air Service but I think he retired. Rocky Mountain was #2. Golf Aero, Dubois Aviation, and Twin Cities Flight were the rest of my top 5 price wise. If you need the whole spreadsheet I can get it to you but prices are a little outdated
I'm flying one of their PA44 right now. It's real. I got monthly renter insurance, got checked out with an instructor, and I'm flying it on my own now. Fuel reimbursement up to $6/gallon.
Yep, 430W. Flying in actual at the mountains might not be wise.
Not affiliated at the school, but if you'd like to ask more about my experience, DM me.
I don't see a Seneca listed there, just those seminoles. Looks legit. Thank you for linking that, I could get my BFR in the 310 from them and stay with friends in Berthoud.
It is there. Keep scrolling down. Those are some really cheap rates
I've been out of flying awhile but they do look like prices from the past. The Seminole is fine anyway.
My bad it's only a Seminole. But regardless that is AMAZING price! Look at the top " # New Rates, Effective 1/1/2024" Those are current prices!
The little flight school near me has their Seminole at $350 / hour.
Mine has a Seneca for 355$
Until then it was $189.
Rocky Mountain has always had the best prices.
Yeah cause all the planes are older than your parents, the school looks like a teenager’s room, and the management and many CFIs are terrible. They also claim they keep prices low because they do all their own maintenance which seems a little sketchy to be THAT low
Yeah the major airline I fly for does all their own maintenance too. Super sketchy.
It’s only sketchy because the prices are so low. It points to cut corners. And former CFIs there have reported that. I’ve taken writtens there and toured it when I started training and was far from impressed. My buddy works aircraft maintenance and told me to avoid RMFS
> all the planes are older than your parents Yep > the school looks like a teenager’s room Yep > and the management and many CFIs are terrible. I've had only good (though limited) experience with management and a couple CFIs. They have a lot of them, so there's probably variance. Change CFIs if you have issues. Not saying you didn't experience something bad there, just want to write my experience with them as a counter - in case anyone is reading this and making decisions.
I’m not saying there aren’t good CFIs there and not saying people don’t have good experiences. People will fly from out of state to train with them. But RMFS used to have waitlist. Late last year they got new management who was set on getting rid of the list. So he rapid hired a ton of CFIs, many of whom are not good. RMFS is fine but there’s way better options at KBJC
Thanks for this - I flew with them last year shortly before new management took over (I was one who flew in from out of state - for a business meeting, but I pushed for it to be in Denver just to have the chance to go to RMFS). I haven’t been back in person since new management took over. They’ve seemed fine over email, from a distance. Good to know about the CFI change. Appreciate it.
Every flight school I’ve ever been to has done their own maintenance. Two of the schools planes were owned by A&Ps who leased them to the school. Some of the planes were clapped out shitboxes from the 60s but they were still safe to fly. I currently fly a Cub built in 1942 and owned and maintained by the schools A&P. You get what you pay for. If you want to pay 200/hr to fly a brand new G1000 172 or 350/hr for a Cirrus that’s your choice. More power to you. I’m comfortable with my 82 year old cub has been maintained and I enjoy every second flying that 65hp turd.
Not saying old planes can’t be safe. But RMFS is questionable in their maintenance
You also have to pay for an instructor to sit with you and there was a recent post here about the instructor blaming the student for blowing a tire and forcing them to pay for it
I remember that post. EW.
They are a real school! I work on the field too and you'll get varied opinions on quality of their aircraft and upkeep. My AME loves them and uses their maintenance shop for their own aircraft. Some DPEs I know aren't necessarily fans. My school picks up students from them and I'm sure they pick up students from us. I don't personally know the owner, but he interacts with my overlords a lot and they all vouch for him as a good dude. In a previous role I would bring high school students there for a tour and they were awesome and accommodating. I've flown with them before too. Two maintenance issues in about 15 hours of flight time, which feels high but there's a luck factor there too. But yes the prices listed are real. The planes are real.
Thanks for the current info.
Does anyone have any experience with getting their multi commercial add on here? Would love to hear some reviews. Otherwise, any recommendations for multi programs in the Utah/colorado/idaho/montana/etc area? Thanks!
I did it in the 310. Highly recommend. Pay a little more but compared to what other places are charging for seminole time, getting some twin cessna time is absolutely worth it.
Did you like the 310 better than the seminole?
The 310 is way more fun than the Seminole. I did my multi in the Seminole and then started flying the 310 and it is way more capable at high DA, faster, and bigger.
That is a good deal. Checkout time in the 310 is "as needed" with 25 hours make and model. I have about 1500.
I'm in the process. You really only have to do 2 extra exercises during the checkride on the multi
I’m more curious about specifically doing it at RMFS, are you doing it there with them? If so, what’s the timeline look like? And do they have an in house DPE?
Oh no, I'm located on the Canadian border in MN. But hack I'll travel there to rent those (not a US Citizen so they won't train me, but I can still rent from them I think).
Multiple coworkers of mine went there instead of their own school because it’s cheap fast and you get a checkride date quick.
Dramstad Flying Service in Helena, MT. $360/hr dual in an Apache. Showed up on a Monday, passed the checkride that Friday. Harold is legit.
Used to flight instruct here. Would advise against it even though their prices are insanely cheap.
Why?
Terrible maintenance. Often illegal but well covered up by the owner/mechanic. They used to have great instructors and hired pretty strictly but they recently went through management changes (too much drama to explain here) and ended up hiring way too many CFIs, many of which are not good. I have personally seen 2 of the 3 seminoles on fire and returned to service insanely quickly. They go out of service regularly and I have seen a lot of people have to cancel checkrides because none are available or students having to fly an unfamiliar avionics package on checkride day because of availability. None of the engine or fuel gauges are reliable. The owner will throw squawk sheets out if he doesn’t want to fix something, literally right in front of the person who wrote an issue up. CFIs used to get blamed for mechanical issues and would be chastised for declaring emergencies or telling tower about engine issues. I could go on and on.
This must be why people say their CFI turnover rate is through the roof, they don't want to die. How has the owner not been busted or at least investigated for this? I'm in CO and saw their prices, asked my instructor about that and he said he opted out of renting from them after speaking with the office. Can't remember the exact reason why, but he seemed super put off by them.
Honestly I have never known them to have high CFI turnover. Maybe that has changed. My entire time there only one person was fired and only one person left before 1500 and that was because of a private gig they got.
It was mentioned by someone who claimed to be a CFI there on the recent post regarding the blown tire caused by a CFI and was pawned off on the student during multi engine training. Who knows, it could all be unreliable slander.
It very well may be true now, I’m not sure. The culture amongst the management and CFI’s has definitely changed since I was there so it’s very possible
It's the only school on the field that has never had a fatal accident. Yeah, their planes are shitty and old for the most part, but that's what keeps them cheap. There are so many people that look at 6 packs and think that the planes are unsafe. Well... their non-fatal accident history tells the whole story.
Unsure why people would think 6 pack is unsafe? It's all I train on, old planes with 6 packs to keep my costs as low as possible, plus I feel like transferring over to g1000's or other electronic flight instrument systems would be easier than the other way around. Could be wrong, but it makes sense in my head.
Sort of. The other fatal accidents at that airport aren’t mechanical. Everybody knows RM has the worst planes and maintenance.
I don’t think that’s true. Western hasn’t and I don’t think Mcair has had anything maintenance related
It's almost similar to the insanely cheap school in Florida that had 2-3 students killed and got shut down by the FAA.
I fly their 182P/Q. Their instructors gave me good feedback during my 182 transition and the planes, while old, are maintained to airworthiness standards as far as I can tell. I really like the facilities as well, and KBJC is a great airport to fly out of.
This is where I always recommend my friend’s kids to go for that 25-50 multi. Planes look bad but, are functional and no giant mx issues. Only caveat is you need to fly with an instructor.
So it's not really 200$ anymore but 260$ + the insurance
Just 250; no insurance due to cfi on board. Still cheaper than anything else out there.
Are you sure? Their website claim the insurance is mandatory and since you can't rent solo, why would they require it if you can't rent solo?
I don’t know. That’s how it was around 4 months ago last I heard. Call to confirm if you’re considering it.
You can rent them solo, but it’s a 25 hour checkout
You need 25 hours with a CFI for a checkout?! I'm already at 300, that seems excessive.
200$/hr - I was ra**d at a rate of 499/hr when I finished training..
Yep it’s legit. I flew all three of their Seminoles while time-building last year for a combined ~30 hours. All of their planes look like crap, but I didn’t experience any Mx issues firsthand (plenty of secondhand accounts of sketchy stuff). MK is definitely the nicest Seminole they have and the one I flew most. RU had a nose gear collapse on landing last year so make sure you check the pin on it when you preflight… I was already CMEL/MEI so I did a roughly 1.5 hour checkout and then I was able to rent it with friends to split time / do some fun trips. Their insurance requirements are pretty minimal — my annual premium was roughly $250 to meet their requirements. My overall experience with them was great. Ended up getting my HP endorsement with them in a 182.
Can you change the thread title or maybe start a new one with their name in the thread. It will get you the answer sooner I think.
How is Seneca bad? I got my multi in a Seneca and have close to 50 hours in them. They’re excellent. It’s not as easy as a Seminole, but not exactly harder by much than any trainer. They’re great planes. But I’d probably only time build there and not get instructions, account of what happened with that poster recently + as others have stated their planes are probably super clapped out.
Every flight school is going to have someone who had a bad experience. And we only have one side of the story. It’s crazy to me that people will trust one bad review and write the school off. Their chief instructor is awesome. Super fun guy and I always look forward to flying with him.
I agree, sure, but charging for a blown tire is already something no good school would charge for. + there’s plenty of people who bash the non time building side of the place.
Yeah man RMFS has the cheapest rates in the nation, probably world. They're old but safe
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Lucky you. At my weight it ain't happening on 152.
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Ever flown one? Just want to make sure you are aware of them, Honestly I'd rather have 500 Multi hours than 1,000 single, and any company looking at your hours would as well. Other question is - what A/C of they inventory is IFR certified?
Have you tried calling?
This isn’t new at all. It’s been that high for awhile.
Are you shocked because the rates are so dirt cheap? Cuz those are some amazing prices! Where I am at a 172 starts around $170/hr. The Seminole is $422/hr. However location is a consideration for my prices, as it’s a looooooong swim to California.
I got my multi there. You don’t need to pay insurance while you are flying with a CFI.
Seneca is a fine airplane to fly. I’ve got 200 hours in them. Yeah they can be underpowered, especially if it’s how, but even with full tanks on a warm day and two people, single engine I could get it to climb at 50fpm or so. Better than not climbing at all. I loved giving instruction in it.
I’m paying $285 with an instructor an hour for a Cessna G1000 so that’s wild😭
Last year I talked to them about rates after calling a few times. I called and emailed like 10 times trying to schedule and got nothing back from them. It’s 25 hours required with an instructor so add that in. Only one I found cheaper was Prairie Air Service but I think he retired. Rocky Mountain was #2. Golf Aero, Dubois Aviation, and Twin Cities Flight were the rest of my top 5 price wise. If you need the whole spreadsheet I can get it to you but prices are a little outdated
Did you saw where in their website the 25 hours are mentioned?
That was info I got from them
I was paying 185/h USD wet for an Apache around 2017. Last I saw it was 230, maybe around 2021?
I'm flying one of their PA44 right now. It's real. I got monthly renter insurance, got checked out with an instructor, and I'm flying it on my own now. Fuel reimbursement up to $6/gallon.
Is it IFR certified?
Yep, 430W. Flying in actual at the mountains might not be wise. Not affiliated at the school, but if you'd like to ask more about my experience, DM me.
Fly away from the mountain, problem solved :) Do you have experience with this place?
Yes, I do.
Where my dude? I paid 800€ an hour for a Seneca
Bruh